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View Full Version : With us being 50-50 on matching Hibbert, why are Portland the only bidders?



yoadknux
07-08-2012, 06:24 AM
As far as I remember, two teams talked Hibbert about a max contract. One is Portland, the second one was anonymous (and is probably not in the mix right now).
About a week has passed since then and we didn't really show any signs that indicate that we're going to match that offer. Rumors and speculations actually say that we're 50-50 on matching him.

Now, there are many, many teams that have cap space and could use a young center like Hibbert: Sacramento, Phoenix, Hornets, Rockets, Mavericks, Bobcats, Raptors, Celtics. There are a few other teams who lack some cap space but could easily make up for it if they offer us a S&T.

So, as the title says, why are the Blazers the only team in the discussion of getting him?

1) Do you think these teams just don't think Hibbert is good enough to get a max contract?
2) Do you think it has something to do with "No bidding wars on RFAs" policy that our owner has?
3) Do you think it's just too early to tell and when the free agency period officially starts we'll see more teams throwing offer sheets at him?

rexnom
07-08-2012, 06:25 AM
I think it's because he indicated that he would sign the offer.

Kstat
07-08-2012, 06:27 AM
Who said Portland was the only other bidder?

When Hibbert accepted their offer on the first day, there was no point in offering him anything. He was done negotiating.


Now, there are many, many teams that have cap space and could use a young center like Hibbert: Sacramento, Phoenix, Hornets, Rockets, Mavericks, Bobcats, Raptors, Celtics. There are a few other teams who lack some cap space but could easily make up for it if they offer us a S&T.

...except Hibbert would have to agree to that, and his actions indicated pretty strongly he wants to sign with portland.

Hibbert is a restricted free agent, but still a free agent. You can't force him to accept a sign and trade with another team.

yoadknux
07-08-2012, 06:45 AM
Who said Portland was the only other bidder?

When Hibbert accepted their offer on the first day, there was no point in offering him anything. He was done negotiating.



...except Hibbert would have to agree to that, and his actions indicated pretty strongly he wants to sign with portland.

Hibbert is a restricted free agent, but still a free agent. You can't force him to accept a sign and trade with another team.
How do you know that the reason he's signing that sheet is because it has "Portland" on it and not "Max $$$"? When teams offer FA's contracts then you hear reports about that stuff. For example, I heard that the Mavs, Pacers, Spurs, Kings and Jazz are in the mix for Kaman, which means they probably at some point gave him an offer or met with him. But that isn't the case with Hibbert.

PGisthefuture
07-08-2012, 06:55 AM
How do you know that the reason he's signing that sheet is because it has "Portland" on it and not "Max $$$"? When teams offer FA's contracts then you hear reports about that stuff. For example, I heard that the Mavs, Pacers, Spurs, Kings and Jazz are in the mix for Kaman, which means they probably at some point gave him an offer or met with him. But that isn't the case with Hibbert.

That's what I'm thinking. Why would Hibbert want to play in Portland so bad?

Kstat
07-08-2012, 07:06 AM
How do you know that the reason he's signing that sheet is because it has "Portland" on it and not "Max $$$"? When teams offer FA's contracts then you hear reports about that stuff. For example, I heard that the Mavs, Pacers, Spurs, Kings and Jazz are in the mix for Kaman, which means they probably at some point gave him an offer or met with him. But that isn't the case with Hibbert.

He met with Portland, and Portland only. He didn't talk to Dallas or any of the other teams with cap room. When a free agent makes up his mind in the first day, that's a very strong indication.

And yes, of course he wants a max contract. But he also didn't even care to see what other teams were offering it. It all points to the blazers management team making a very strong impression on him.

Eindar
07-08-2012, 08:00 AM
He met with Portland, and Portland only. He didn't talk to Dallas or any of the other teams with cap room. When a free agent makes up his mind in the first day, that's a very strong indication.

And yes, of course he wants a max contract. But he also didn't even care to see what other teams were offering it. It all points to the blazers management team making a very strong impression on him.

That, and Portland is a very cool place to live.

Kstat
07-08-2012, 08:01 AM
That, and Portland is a very cool place to live.

I'll be honest, I'd love to live there someday too. Maybe not long-term, but for a few years, just for the experience.

troyc11a
07-08-2012, 08:19 AM
That's what I'm thinking. Why would Hibbert want to play in Portland so bad?

It is most likely that Roy made his mind up that he wants to be in Indy or Portland. So now he has the max $$$$ Portland can offer. It only takes 1 offer to force the Pacers to pay him and he got it from a team/city he likes!

d_c
07-08-2012, 08:25 AM
That's what I'm thinking. Why would Hibbert want to play in Portland so bad?

They were probably the 1st team to call him with a MAX offer. He met with their team officials and came away impressed with their organization.

He decided to sign, figuring that doing so presents an absolute no lose situation for him: He gets paid big bucks and he's going to play for an organization that he likes (either the Pacers or the Blazers).

CJ Jones
07-08-2012, 08:41 AM
Have we actually heard from Roy's mouth that he'd rather be in Portland? That's hard to believe unless he's said it publicly.

PGisthefuture
07-08-2012, 08:47 AM
Have we actually heard from Roy's mouth that he'd rather be in Portland? That's hard to believe unless he's said it publicly.

I haven't seen anywhere where he has said he prefers Portland. Roy's agent isn't going to let him say anything like that and I think Roy is smart enough not to talk about it. There are some fishy things going on though. Roy started following Lamarcus Aldridge, Portland Trailblazers, and Damien Lillard all at the same time recently. I just wish this thing would get sorted out.

Kstat
07-08-2012, 08:53 AM
Have we actually heard from Roy's mouth that he'd rather be in Portland? That's hard to believe unless he's said it publicly.

...and nobody here has said that, either. People need to stop taking this personally.

jeffg-body
07-08-2012, 09:07 AM
I think that Roy's agent is using Portland as a tool to make sure that the Pacers will give him the max contract. They were the first team that offered it so now there is no need to negotiate with other teams. He will just sign it and anticipate the Pacers to match. This is just my opinion though.

OlBlu
07-08-2012, 09:14 AM
As far as I remember, two teams talked Hibbert about a max contract. One is Portland, the second one was anonymous (and is probably not in the mix right now).
About a week has passed since then and we didn't really show any signs that indicate that we're going to match that offer. Rumors and speculations actually say that we're 50-50 on matching him.

Now, there are many, many teams that have cap space and could use a young center like Hibbert: Sacramento, Phoenix, Hornets, Rockets, Mavericks, Bobcats, Raptors, Celtics. There are a few other teams who lack some cap space but could easily make up for it if they offer us a S&T.

So, as the title says, why are the Blazers the only team in the discussion of getting him?

1) Do you think these teams just don't think Hibbert is good enough to get a max contract?
2) Do you think it has something to do with "No bidding wars on RFAs" policy that our owner has?
3) Do you think it's just too early to tell and when the free agency period officially starts we'll see more teams throwing offer sheets at him?

There is no reason to talk about it until the offer sheet is signed and the three days are up. I think the Pacers will wait until the very last second to match for Roy.....:cool:

Kstat
07-08-2012, 09:23 AM
I think that Roy's agent is using Portland as a tool to make sure that the Pacers will give him the max contract. They were the first team that offered it so now there is no need to negotiate with other teams. He will just sign it and anticipate the Pacers to match. This is just my opinion though.

Problem with that theory is, this isn't Roy's agent's decision. It's Roy's decision. If he wanted to look at other teams, his agent would have done so.

Also, I'm fairly certain no restricted free agent in the history of the NBA has taken the approach of "I'll just sign the first major offer I get, because I know my old team will match it"....

Noodle
07-08-2012, 09:36 AM
I'll be honest, I'd love to live there someday too. Maybe not long-term, but for a few years, just for the experience.

Okay USA... :thumbsup:

d_c
07-08-2012, 09:56 AM
...and nobody here has said that, either. People need to stop taking this personally.

And in the end, it really doesn't matter. Roy knows he's going to get paid and he knows he'll be happy playing in either Indy or Portland. In the end, it doesn't matter what place he prefers. If the Pacers match the offer, Roy stays in Indy, and something tells me he'll be happy with it.

People really do need to stop taking this personally. This stuff is a business first. Roy is a 25 year old pro athlete about to sign the biggest contract of his career. His most important goal is to secure himself the best contract possible. Anyone who doesn't think this is his most important goal right now needs to enroll in Real Life 101.

mildlysane
07-08-2012, 10:28 AM
Wasn't Portland the drug addict/homeless Capital of the US a few years back? I thought I show a documentary on that a few years back. Maybe I am wrong...

imawhat
07-08-2012, 10:33 AM
It's been publicly stated that Roy prefers signing with Portland over returning to the Pacers.

imawhat
07-08-2012, 10:34 AM
Wasn't Portland the drug addict/homeless Capital of the US a few years back? I thought I show a documentary on that a few years back. Maybe I am wrong...

I doubt it. It's one of the nicest cities I've been to in the US.

mildlysane
07-08-2012, 10:36 AM
I doubt it. It's one of the nicest cities I've been to in the US.

Perhaps they curbed that problem then...http://blog.oregonlive.com/portlandcityhall/2011/03/portland_city_hall_roundup_old.html

mildlysane
07-08-2012, 10:38 AM
It's been publicly stated that Roy prefers signing with Portland over returning to the Pacers.

Yup. Maybe he feels slighted by our initial offer or lack thereof.

Kemo
07-08-2012, 10:40 AM
It's been publicly stated that Roy prefers signing with Portland over returning to the Pacers.
no it hasn't.. nothing like that officially has came from roy's mouth...

this is just hyperbole

mildlysane
07-08-2012, 10:45 AM
Here is a link about the homeless problem there...http://www.city-data.com/forum/portland/1160665-why-portland-so-infested-homeless.html

Pacer Fan
07-08-2012, 10:52 AM
It's been publicly stated that Roy prefers signing with Portland over returning to the Pacers.

Can you get something that says that. I only have seen information stating that he like Portland and the contract. Yet he has not agreed to anything with Portland. He has not express he doesn't want to be here. Please post something that proves your comment.

Like Nic Batum has actually said he doesn't want to play in Portland and has verbally agreed with the Wolves. Same with Eric Gordon.

cinotimz
07-08-2012, 10:56 AM
The teams interested in Hibbert were not interested in offering him the max...when Portland offered the max, the other interested parties fell by the wayside...Hibbert has stated all along that he wants to stay in Indy...but obviously he and his agent would like to get the maximum they could get...and the pacers have never offered such...hence why he became an UFA...and when they found one sucker in Portland to offer the max, well fortunately for them, they only need one....most everyone knows Roy is not a max player...yet...he will get it...because it only takes one...and Portland with Paul Allens hardon towards Pritchard was kinda the perfect storm for the pacers and totally lucky for Hibbert....cant blame Hibbert for wanting his cake and eating it too...who wouldnt want the perfect job with the max pay in the city of their choice...so thats what Hibbert is doing...hes got the max pay...now hes hoping to get it in Indy....his nirvana...

and he will get it...the Pacers will not let him walk without any compensation....they know they cant do that...period...

mildlysane
07-08-2012, 11:05 AM
The teams interested in Hibbert were not interested in offering him the max...when Portland offered the max, the other interested parties fell by the wayside...Hibbert has stated all along that he wants to stay in Indy...but obviously he and his agent would like to get the maximum they could get...and the pacers have never offered such...hence why he became an UFA...and when they found one sucker in Portland to offer the max, well fortunately for them, they only need one....most everyone knows Roy is not a max player...yet...he will get it...because it only takes one...and Portland with Paul Allens hardon towards Pritchard was kinda the perfect storm for the pacers and totally lucky for Hibbert....cant blame Hibbert for wanting his cake and eating it too...who wouldnt want the perfect job with the max pay in the city of their choice...so thats what Hibbert is doing...hes got the max pay...now hes hoping to get it in Indy....his nirvana...

and he will get it...the Pacers will not let him walk without any compensation....they know they cant do that...period...

Interesting theory....hope you are correct!

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah, I like what Prichard is doing... I'm glad he is waiting to agree to match Hibbert.. I am sure he knows he has to do it, and hes pissed that Paul Allen offered Roy the Max... And he wants to screw them back...

KP knows as well as we do that a Roy at 14 mil is considerably better option than a Kaman at 11... We have had plenty of time to evaluate all options. We know by now what we are doing.

It is obvious to me that this is all a ploy to tie up the Blazers money... By the time we officially match there will be about 13 days worth of Free Agent signings and the Jailblazers and Warden Allen will be left with overplayed scraps out of desperation...

Kstat
07-08-2012, 11:21 AM
totally obvious, yes. How could we all not see?

Prichard is so furious with the Blazer offering Roy $58 million, that he's going to get them back by...offering Roy $58 million!

All part of his master plan.

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 11:26 AM
To further my point... Roys contract has to be matched last anyways in order to fit our off-season under the cap...

Its just shrewd and vindictive business... Not a surprise considering how KPs termination went down...

A PritchSlap parting gift for doing dirty business for Allen...

Kstat
07-08-2012, 11:29 AM
...still wondering what's "shrewd and vindictive" about matching an offer sheet for your own free agent. Yeah, Prichard is an evil genius.

I'm sure Portland never, ever anticipated Indiana matching their offer, either. They'll be totally blindsided by it. They'll be caught totally by surprise.

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 11:32 AM
totally obvious, yes. How could we all not see?

Prichard is so furious with the Blazer offering Roy $58 million, that he's going to get them back by...offering Roy $58 million!

All part of his master plan.

Thanks for hating on my post Kstat... Your dislike for me or your ignorance blinds you to my point.

The screw job is the blazers money getting tied up for 3 days after signing period begins... Paul Allen has actually screwed us first by offering 58 mil.

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 11:37 AM
...still wondering what's "shrewd and vindictive" about matching an offer sheet for your own free agent. Yeah, Prichard is an evil genius.

I'm sure Portland never, ever anticipated Indiana matching their offer, either. They'll be totally blindsided by it. They'll be caught totally by surprise.

Whether or not they see it coming is irrelevant... An unmatched contract 3 days after the free agency signing period has begun puts the blazers waaaay behind the 8 ball and completely out of the running for a vast # of FA who have already signed...

I am right... you are wrong... so enjoy..

Kstat
07-08-2012, 11:40 AM
My point, is that this is NOT a "screw-job" for the Blazers. Depending on your viewpoint, the Pacers can get screwed in this deal, but the Blazers never had Hibbert to begin with.

These are adults. They ALREADY KNEW Indiana matching their offer was a distinct possibility. This is not high school. There is no diabolical master plan to ruin the blazers by doing something that is simply everyday business.

They committed $58 million to a restricted free agent on day 1. They already knew the risk involved in that, and I am %100 sure they have a plan B they feel they can live with if Indiana matches on the 14th.



I am right... you are wrong... so enjoy..

...well, with brilliant deductive reasoning like that, who can argue?

Pacer Fan
07-08-2012, 11:41 AM
I don't lnow this for a fact, but I would think that several teams did contact Roy's agent to set up interviews. Roy picking Portland 1st and Portland offering the max and Roy liking what he seen is prolly good enough for Roy. If, Portland happens to not put the offer on the table, then Roy will then start looking at other teams that showed interest. Roy doesn't have to be in a bidding war with multiple teams cause max is max. His ceiling has been reached.

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 11:50 AM
My point, is that this is NOT a "screw-job" for the Blazers. Depending on your viewpoint, the Pacers can get screwed in this deal, but the Blazers never had Hibbert to begin with.

These are adults. They ALREADY KNEW Indiana matching their offer was a distinct possibility. This is not high school. There is no diabolical master plan to ruin the blazers by doing something that is simply everyday business.

They committed $58 million to a restricted free agent on day 1. They already knew the risk involved in that, and I am %100 sure they have a plan B they feel they can live with if Indiana matches on the 14th.



...well, with brilliant deductive reasoning like that, who can argue?

Obviously the Blazers are resigned to the fact that if they were to get Hibbert at 14+ mil that they had better be fine with it...

But don't think for 1 second that teams don't drive up the prices on RFAs to eat up other teams cap space knowing team B HAS to match, for one reason or another...

Happens all the time...

Believe it or not NBA brass like you and I have egos too... a lot of game playing occurs in the Front Offices...

Kstat
07-08-2012, 11:51 AM
No. They don't. It's an idiotic strategy to drive up the price on a guy you don't really want, because he might SIGN with you.

No team HAS to match any contract if they don't have to. The Pacers are waffling back and forth with the idea to begin with.

Heisenberg
07-08-2012, 11:57 AM
Wasn't Portland the drug addict/homeless Capital of the US a few years back? I thought I show a documentary on that a few years back. Maybe I am wrong...Don't know about all that, but it is the hipster capital of the world. Which is worse.

Sandman21
07-08-2012, 01:21 PM
I believe there was a third team in the mix (probably Cuban), just didn't offer a max.

Kstat
07-08-2012, 01:22 PM
He never had a chance to make an offer.

Sandman21
07-08-2012, 01:28 PM
He never had a chance to make an offer.

Or that.

avoidingtheclowns
07-08-2012, 01:30 PM
Perhaps they curbed that problem then...http://blog.oregonlive.com/portlandcityhall/2011/03/portland_city_hall_roundup_old.html

They put a bird on it.

docpaul
07-08-2012, 02:16 PM
I *am* in a parallel universe. :)

IMO, no other teams are offering a "max" contract because they don't want to pay that much for his skill set.

That said, the offer is not way out of whack for a person with his character and playing history. But certainly not a fantastic value.

imawhat
07-08-2012, 02:16 PM
no it hasn't.. nothing like that officially has came from roy's mouth...

this is just hyperbole


Can you get something that says that.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/01/hibbert-leaning-toward-portland-after-max-offer/

Free agent center Roy Hibbert is now leaning toward wanting to play with the Portland Trail Blazers next season, a day after the restricted free agent got a verbal commitment from the Blazers.
But the 25-year-old was apparently blown away by the presentation made Saturday in Washington, D.C., by the Blazersí contingent, which included Portlandís new general manager, Neil Olshey.
The Pacers would still be able to match any offer for Hibbbert when the July moratorium expires, but teams generally work out deals for players who express a specific desire to be elsewhere once they become free agents.

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 02:30 PM
Wasn't Portland the drug addict/homeless Capital of the US a few years back? I thought I show a documentary on that a few years back. Maybe I am wrong...

I don't know about that either... But many sources have shown, Detroitizzle, to be rated as the top most disgusting cesspool of a city in America... Plenty of homeless, jobless, vile, drug addicted folks in that city.

OlBlu
07-08-2012, 02:39 PM
I *am* in a parallel universe. :)

IMO, no other teams are offering a "max" contract because they don't want to pay that much for his skill set.

That said, the offer is not way out of whack for a person with his character and playing history. But certainly not a fantastic value.

If it had not come from Portland, it would have come from some other team. In spite of what some here say, Roy is worth that contract. You can't teach 7'3" and he has improved greatly since he was drafted. I would bet that there are five or six other teams who would make that offer to Hibbert. Portland was just the first and a nice spot for him to play if the Pacers do not match......:cool:

PaceBalls
07-08-2012, 02:42 PM
I don't know about that either... But many sources have shown, Detroitizzle, to be rated as the top most disgusting cesspool of a city in America... Plenty of homeless, jobless, vile, drug addicted folks in that city.

Wow, that is one of the most disgusting generalizations I've read in a while. Do you read your posts before you post them?

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 02:44 PM
Wow, that is one of the most disgusting generalizations I've read in a while. Do you read your posts before you post them?

I did say sources right? I will post some links later when I can get to my PC...

Reginald
07-08-2012, 02:45 PM
Don't know about all that, but it is the hipster capital of the world. Which is worse.

I'm a 41-year native and resident of Indianapolis. My sister has lived in Portland for the last seven years. Anyone who disputes that Portland doesn't offer a better quality of life than Indianapolis is a clueless Hoosier homer. Indy is a perfectly good city, but Portland is off the charts.

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 02:50 PM
Wow, that is one of the most disgusting generalizations I've read in a while. Do you read your posts before you post them?

Indy is one of the fattest, Bama one of the least educated... I think we are grown and can be honest about our general case studied weaknesses... Just keeping it 100... Don't want to be accused of being politically correct

ksuttonjr76
07-08-2012, 02:54 PM
Does anyone believe that Paul Allen would have offered the max, if KP WASN'T part of the Pacers? Personally, I believe that Portland was the ONLY team willing to give the max to Hibbert. If other teams were willing to give the max, then Hibbert would have still met with those teams respectively. Why anyone take the first offer given when there other people are willing to make the SAME offer...Real Life 101.

Kstat
07-08-2012, 02:55 PM
Indy is one of the fattest, Bama one of the least educated... I think we are grown and can be honest about our general case studied weaknesses... Just keeping it 100... Don't want to be accused of being politically correct

I dont think anybody would mistake you for being any kind of correct....

Out of curiosity, you decided to involve Detroit in this discussion....because?

Pacer Fan
07-08-2012, 03:12 PM
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/01/hibbert-leaning-toward-portland-after-max-offer/

Free agent center Roy Hibbert is now leaning toward wanting to play with the Portland Trail Blazers next season, a day after the restricted free agent got a verbal commitment from the Blazers.
But the 25-year-old was apparently blown away by the presentation made Saturday in Washington, D.C., by the Blazers’ contingent, which included Portland’s new general manager, Neil Olshey.
The Pacers would still be able to match any offer for Hibbbert when the July moratorium expires, but teams generally work out deals for players who express a specific desire to be elsewhere once they become free agents.

Again, can you get something that states what you said to begin with? This is far from a Verbal agreement to Portland from Roy. This doesn't even state that Roy said anything. No Quotes or anything.....leaning towards and the 25-year-old was apparently blown away by the presentation mean nothing. There is no quote that Roy said these things and Roy has never made anything clear that he'd rather be there then here, unlike Batum and Gordon. Not to my knowledge!

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 03:31 PM
I dont think anybody would mistake you for being any kind of correct....

Out of curiosity, you decided to involve Detroit in this discussion....because?

Because when I googled worst u.s. cities to live in, to see if Portland was on the list, Detroit came up #1 on the first 2 I found... Reasons for this were unemployment, crime, poverty, pollution, toxic waste dumps, drug use... sounds vile to me...

Suaveness
07-08-2012, 03:41 PM
Because when I googled worst u.s. cities to live in, to see if Portland was on the list, Detroit came up #1 on the first 2 I found... Reasons for this were unemployment, crime, poverty, pollution, toxic waste dumps, drug use... sounds vile to me...

Not the place for this crap.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 03:41 PM
I'm a 41-year native and resident of Indianapolis. My sister has lived in Portland for the last seven years. Anyone who disputes that Portland doesn't offer a better quality of life than Indianapolis is a clueless Hoosier homer. Indy is a perfectly good city, but Portland is off the charts.

I just Googled "city unhappiness levels (https://www.google.com/search?q=city+unhappiness+levels)," and the very first result was to a Business Week article from 2009 ranking the 20 most unhappy cities in America (top 50 metro areas). Wanna guess what city was #1?

Yep, the one-and-only Portland, Oregon. Detroit was 4th, and Indy, 16th.

Americaís Unhappiest Cities: Portland, Ore. - BusinessWeek (http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/02/0226_miserable_cities/2.htm)


http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/02/0226_miserable_cities/image/portland.jpg Justin Sullivan/Getty Images

Portland, Ore.

Overall rank: 1*
Depression rank: 1
Suicide rank: 12
Crime (property and violent) rank: 24
Divorce rate rank: 4
Cloudy days: 222
Unemployment rate (December 2008): 7.8%

Kstat
07-08-2012, 03:45 PM
Not the place for this crap.

I've been here for nearly 8 years. I don't even respond to it any more. That's why god invented ignore lists.

I'm very proud of where I come from. I wouldn't have had it any other way.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 03:45 PM
Not the place for this crap.

It's probably not the right place for it, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. Anyone who denies the, shall we say, "problems," that are facing the city of Detroit, is almost certainly detached from reality.

Suaveness
07-08-2012, 03:47 PM
It's probably not the right place for it, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. Anyone who denies the, shall we say, "problems," that are facing the city of Detroit, is almost certainly detached from reality.


Sure and I can call people ugly and fat, and while it may be true, it's not appropriate.

Kstat
07-08-2012, 03:49 PM
Sure and I can call people ugly and fat, and while it may be true, it's not appropriate.

I think people show their own ugliness, frankly. Nobody needs to point it out for them.

Suaveness
07-08-2012, 03:51 PM
I try not to, but sometimes it gets irritating. *shrug* I'm done.

SMosley21
07-08-2012, 03:53 PM
Well if I was looking for the epitome of why I don't frequent PD anymore, this thread would be it.

rabid
07-08-2012, 04:01 PM
Portland is an awesome city. Gorgeous nature in every direction (mountains, redwood forest, ocean, rivers), excellent public transit, super clean, modern downtown, great music / art / culture scene, good food, weather is better than generally reported. The local economy / employment is tough right now from what I hear but then welcome to 98 percent of the U.S.

You can show me any article you like, but I've traveled and/or lived all over the country. You can do much much much worse than Portland, OR. Of course taste is subjective.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:01 PM
Sure and I can call people ugly and fat, and while it may be true, it's not appropriate.

If a discussion devolves into whether or not someone's ugly and fat, then it would be, assuming by appropriate you mean on-topic, rather than politically correct.

This conversation has somehow become about the quality of certain cities (I missed out on it), and, while Indy may be far from glamorous, it's seemingly paradise compared to Portland and Detroit.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:06 PM
Portland is an awesome city. Gorgeous nature in every direction (mountains, redwood forest, ocean, rivers), excellent public transit, super clean, modern downtown, great music / art / culture scene, good food, weather is better than generally reported. The local economy / employment is tough right now from what I hear but then welcome to 98 percent of the U.S.

You can show me any article you like, but I've traveled and/or lived all over the country. You can do much much much worse than Portland, OR. Of course taste is subjective.

So, then, why do you think it is that Portland's reportedly the most depressed city in America, and why is it that so many of Portland residents would rather be dead than live in such a glorious, tree-filled <s>overgrown village</s> city?

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:14 PM
Well if I was looking for the epitome of why I don't frequent PD anymore, this thread would be it.

These types of discussions take up maybe 1% of the Pacers section here at Pacers Digest. If you don't frequent a website because maybe 1% of the discussion drifts off into territory you find personally offensive, then you should probably just give up logging on to the Internet. This discussion wouldn't even make my list of the top 10,000 offensive discussions I've seen online.

OlBlu
07-08-2012, 04:17 PM
So, then, why do you think it is that Portland's reportedly the most depressed city in America, and why is it that so many of Portland residents would rather be dead than live in such a glorious, tree-filled <s>overgrown village</s> city?

I don't think that is true and I second the fact that it is a beautiful place visit and live.....:cool:

Will Galen
07-08-2012, 04:20 PM
I don't know about that either... But many sources have shown, Detroitizzle, to be rated as the top most disgusting cesspool of a city in America... Plenty of homeless, jobless, vile, drug addicted folks in that city.

I can see what you are doing, however Kstat doesn't live in Detroit.

daschysta
07-08-2012, 04:21 PM
So, then, why do you think it is that Portland's reportedly the most depressed city in America, and why is it that so many of Portland residents would rather be dead than live in such a glorious, tree-filled <s>overgrown village</s> city?


Portland is Amazing, the skyies can be gray sometimes, and can effect seasonal effective disorder, but Seattle has a much more notorious reputation in that regard. I'm from Indianapolis, and i can confidently say that Portland is much more beautiful, is much more attuned to art and music culture, is much cleaner and is in general a fantastic city that has many things I prefer over Indianapolis. It's all about taste, but I'm going out for Law School in about a year, and being able to live in the Pacific Northwest is something I would love to do if I get the opportunity during school.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:21 PM
I don't think that is true and I second the fact that it is a beautiful place visit and live.....:cool:

Then publish an article in Internet Troll Weekly refuting it? :shrug:

daschysta
07-08-2012, 04:22 PM
It's probably not the right place for it, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. Anyone who denies the, shall we say, "problems," that are facing the city of Detroit, is almost certainly detached from reality.

Detroit's problems are complicated, and it has a very relevant and important history that is insulted by simply calling the place trash, trying to prop something else up.

OlBlu
07-08-2012, 04:24 PM
Then publish an article in Internet Troll Weekly refuting it? :shrug:


It would seem from reading that you are the troll here, not me. Have you ever been to Portland? The entire states of Washington and Oregon are wonderful places to visit and live...:cool:

mildlysane
07-08-2012, 04:26 PM
Detroit was at one time a crown jewel of North America. Then the big 3 started pulling out. I feel bad for the people of Detroit.

travmil
07-08-2012, 04:26 PM
I don't know what some ranking in a magazine would have to do with Roy's happiness or lack thereof. Even if he HATES Portland, I would imagine his ridiculously large bank account would offset that. I could see the average joe being unhappy there, but Roy does not fit into that category.

I think the Pacers are playing possum and are planning to match anyway but I guess we'll see.

Will Galen
07-08-2012, 04:28 PM
He met with Portland, and Portland only. He didn't talk to Dallas or any of the other teams with cap room. When a free agent makes up his mind in the first day, that's a very strong indication.

And yes, of course he wants a max contract. But he also didn't even care to see what other teams were offering it. It all points to the blazers management team making a very strong impression on him.

Sam Amick ‏<s style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); ">@</s>sam_amick (http://twitter.com/#!/sam_amick)
Indiana did not offer a max deal, and Hibbert is now leaning to Blazers unless Pacers match. One other unnamed team offered max.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:28 PM
It would seem from reading that you are the troll here, not me. Have you ever been to Portland? The entire states of Washington and Oregon are wonderful places to visit and live...:cool:

I've not been to the Pacific Northwest, no. However, even if I had, my single, anecdote-supported opinion wouldn't trump the results of the research used in the Business Week article.

ilive4sports
07-08-2012, 04:33 PM
Sam Amick ‏<s style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); ">@</s>sam_amick (http://twitter.com/#!/sam_amick)
Indiana did not offer a max deal, and Hibbert is now leaning to Blazers unless Pacers match. One other unnamed team offered max.
the fact that this "unnamed team" has not been named yet makes me call bs. Probably just put out there by his agent.

Kstat
07-08-2012, 04:34 PM
Detroit was at one time a crown jewel of North America. Then the big 3 started pulling out. I feel bad for the people of Detroit.

Ford is coming back strong, GM a little further behind but theyre getting better.

I actually bought a 2012 Focus SE a year ago this month, and I've loved every second.

Kstat
07-08-2012, 04:38 PM
It would seem from reading that you are the troll here, not me. Have you ever been to Portland? The entire states of Washington and Oregon are wonderful places to visit and live...:cool:

Ugly people love to put down places they've never been and people they don't know for the sake of their own self-steem. It's a trend as old as history. As you get older, you learn to let petty things like that go.

I'd love the opportunity to move out to Portland or Seattle for a number of years. The Pacific Northwest has always astonished me.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:38 PM
A rare interview with former no. 1 overall pick Greg Oden about his injury-plagued career - Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7908766/a-rare-interview-former-no-1-overall-pick-greg-oden-injury-plagued-career)


"For starters, Portland isn't a great city to live in if you're a young, African American male with a lot of money," Greg explained with an embarrassed grin.

He doesn't go into any detail on what it is about Portland he objected to. Could it be that being surrounded by lots of trees, bike trails, and politically-confused, non-showering hippies isn't the ideal setting for most young black men?

daschysta
07-08-2012, 04:39 PM
I've not been to the Pacific Northwest, no. However, even if I had, my single, anecdote-supported opinion wouldn't trump the results of the research used in the Business Week article.

Seriously, you would allow the narrow purview of the opinion of a business magazine to supercede your own experience? That's kind of sad man. Business Week misses the point of what makes places like Portland great, obviously such a publication focuses on the economic indices of a given place, things that have little bearing on people who would rather live in a place for its beauty, culture, progressiveness and climate as opposed to how many fortune 500 companies are based there, or how many unions were busted. Placing some news article over your own experience in something as non-efficacious as perception of "niceness" in a city is the definition of tool.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:41 PM
Ugly people love to put down places they've never been and people they don't know for the sake of their own self-steem. It's a trend as old as history.

So, Business Week is run by "ugly people," who've "put down" Portland and Detroit due to some self-esteem issue?

Heisenberg
07-08-2012, 04:43 PM
I'm a 41-year native and resident of Indianapolis. My sister has lived in Portland for the last seven years. Anyone who disputes that Portland doesn't offer a better quality of life than Indianapolis is a clueless Hoosier homer. Indy is a perfectly good city, but Portland is off the charts.
Relax, it was a joke.

Hipsters do suck though.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:44 PM
the fact that this "unnamed team" has not been named yet makes me call bs. Probably just put out there by his agent.

Not necessarily. It could be that, once they found out Hibbert preferred to sign Portland's offer sheet, they decided to keep their offer quiet as a means of saving face. Any team who comes forward and says they were prepared to make Roy a max offer is making it known that they were rejected in favor of the team playing in America's most unhappy city.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
07-08-2012, 04:48 PM
I think that Roy's agent is using Portland as a tool to make sure that the Pacers will give him the max contract. They were the first team that offered it so now there is no need to negotiate with other teams. He will just sign it and anticipate the Pacers to match. This is just my opinion though.

That's what I believe also.

It's a business. The agent and Hibbert know that either way he gets a max contract. We can argue all day about whether he is "worth" it. But the truth is, that is what he will cost. And the Pacer's either need to bring some serious scoring onto this team and a body or two to play center or re sign Hibbert. I would rather see Hibbert stay, but could live with the alternative, just as long as they keep on winning at a high rate.

mildlysane
07-08-2012, 04:49 PM
I worked with an older lady who, years before, worked for the Forestry dept in th PacNW. From listening to her stories about the wildlife and the woods and the awesome isolation that they bring, I think it would killer to live there. Of course it would be like the exact opposite of where I live now. I think the reputation is from the huge homeless population in the heart of the cities up there, especially Portland. But there are bad areas and homeless areas everywhere, even down here in Paradise.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
07-08-2012, 04:51 PM
Relax, it was a joke.

Hipsters do suck though.

It's opinion and the homey needs to realize that his opinion on the subject is not necessarily the truth or any more valuable than yours or mine. I have never lived in Portland. I have lived in Orlando and vastly prefer IND.

daschysta
07-08-2012, 04:54 PM
A rare interview with former no. 1 overall pick Greg Oden about his injury-plagued career - Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7908766/a-rare-interview-former-no-1-overall-pick-greg-oden-injury-plagued-career)



He doesn't go into any detail on what it is about Portland he objected to. Could it be that being surrounded by lots of trees, bike trails, and politically-confused, non-showering hippies isn't the ideal setting for most young black men?

Stereotypes much? I'm not a politically confused, non-showering Hippie, and I love the place. I'm 1 semester away from completing my degree, a double major in Political Science and Psychology, and then beginning Law School, and I find Portland very agreeable. I won't paint you with a broad brush, perhaps your posting habits don't accurately represent your character, but solely based on your posts on this subject you are coming off as an ignorant redneck. The Portland Metro area is more educated that the Indianapolis Metro area, 36 percent of people there had at least a Baccalaureate degree in 2011, above the roughly 30 percent in the Indianapolis metro area. Also i'll assume by politically confused you mean liberal, if so you can PM me with anything political you wish to discuss, and we can see who comes off as "politically ignorant".

That Business week article uses such great indicators as "cloudy days", also measuring depression rates by sales of Anti-Depressants is an incredibly unreliable variable that has too many spurious factors to accurate extrapolate such a vague construct as "happiness"

cinotimz
07-08-2012, 04:56 PM
Noone was going to make Roy a max offer if not for Paul Allens hardon for Pritchard....thats why they all disappeared after the Portland offer...

rabid
07-08-2012, 04:56 PM
He doesn't go into any detail on what it is about Portland he objected to. Could it be that being surrounded by lots of trees, bike trails, and politically-confused, non-showering hippies isn't the ideal setting for most young black men?

Is that what the BusinessWeek article told you? I'd stop now if I were you, you're teetering toward troll territory here...

Lance George
07-08-2012, 04:59 PM
Seriously, you would allow the narrow purview of the opinion of a business magazine to supercede your own experience? That's kind of sad man. Business Week misses the point of what makes places like Portland great, obviously such a publication focuses on the economic indices of a given place, things that have little bearing on people who would rather live in a place for its beauty, culture, progressiveness and climate as opposed to how many fortune 500 companies are based there, or how many unions were busted. Placing some news article over your own experience in something as non-efficacious as perception of "niceness" in a city is the definition of tool.

You're taking this far too personal.

Maybe I'd love Portland. I don't know, I've not been there. As I said, even if I did enjoy Portland, it wouldn't alter the reported, well-researched claim that it's the most depressed city in America.

Maybe there are plenty of things to like about Portland, but, at the end of the day, a very significant portion of the its residents are not happy people. Do you not believe happiness is in any way related to quality of life?

daschysta
07-08-2012, 05:02 PM
You're taking this far too personal.

Maybe I'd love Portland. I don't know, I've not been there. As I said, even if I did enjoy Portland, it wouldn't alter the reported, well-researched claim that it's the most depressed city in America.

Maybe there are plenty of things to like about Portland, but, at the end of the day, a very significant portion of the its residents are not happy people. Do you not believe happiness is in any way related to quality of life?

That Business week article uses such great indicators as "cloudy days", also measuring depression rates by sales of Anti-Depressants is an incredibly unreliable variable that has too many spurious factors to accurately extrapolate such a vague construct as "happiness".

I'd teeter away from using a source like Business Week to make judgements on things like happiness of a cities population. Also Greg most likely didn't enjoy Portland because that is the place his career and reputation fell apart, he'd probably hate his time in any place that he went through what he did.

cinotimz
07-08-2012, 05:04 PM
As for Portland being depressed....i dunno....I grew up in Indy...and lived in Portland for a little bit later in life...Portland is a great city overall...sure it can be a little gloomy in the wintertime, not unlike Indy and alot of other places....but its a pretty cool place for a lot of reasons...and one thing is definitely for certain....Indy and Portland have no business being in this conversation with Detroit....just none...

mildlysane
07-08-2012, 05:09 PM
People get depressed everywhere. I don't think the Business rag interviewed everyone in every city. I would imagine the rain/clouds would be depressing to some, but oppressive heat is depressing to others. Where I live, a full 50% of the population only lives here between Jan and April.

rabid
07-08-2012, 05:09 PM
So, then, why do you think it is that Portland's reportedly the most depressed city in America, and why is it that so many of Portland residents would rather be dead than live in such a glorious, tree-filled <s>overgrown village</s> city?

Gosh you sound like such a nice, educated, well-informed person just looking for honest friendly conversation, not trying to intentionally push anyone's buttons or anything like that.

For those that are genuinely curious, it's called seasonal affective disorder and is an issue in many, many northerly parts of the world that have less sunlight in winter, including other U.S. cities like Seattle, Minneapolis, Green Bay, pretty much all of Alaska, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder.

EDIT: and I'd still move to Portland in a heartbeat over many many other places in the U.S. Because, you know, I've actually been there...

rabid
07-08-2012, 05:16 PM
Hey look, I can use Google too!

According to this actual psychiatric research site, Indiana is the 4th most depressing state to live in the entire U.S. in 2011. Huh, interesting. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/12/26/the-most-depressing-places-to-live-in-the-u-s-2011/.

This article is the #1 google result when you search for "most depressed city."

I guess now I can use this article and ignore any and all other information given to me, so I can proceed to stereotype and stir s*** up. The article is well-researched after all, so why on earth would anyone ever want to live in Indiana? Sounds like a crappy place.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 05:26 PM
Stereotypes much? I'm not a politically confused, non-showering Hippie, and I love the place. I'm 1 semester away from completing my degree, a double major in Political Science and Psychology, and then beginning Law School, and I find Portland very agreeable. I won't paint you with a broad brush, perhaps your posting habits don't accurately represent your character, but solely based on your posts on this subject you are coming off as an ignorant redneck. The Portland Metro area is more educated that the Indianapolis Metro area, 36 percent of people there had at least a Baccalaureate degree in 2011, above the roughly 30 percent in the Indianapolis metro area. Also i'll assume by politically confused you mean liberal, if so you can PM me with anything political you wish to discuss, and we can see who comes off as "politically ignorant".

That Business week article uses such great indicators as "cloudy days", also measuring depression rates by sales of Anti-Depressants is an incredibly unreliable variable that has too many spurious factors to accurate extrapolate such a vague construct as "happiness"

You really can't grasp the fact that just because you find Portland to be "agreeable," that not everyone does, can you? Apparently, the entire world is dictated solely by daschysta's opinions. If daschysta thinks Portland is amazing, well, then, Portland is amazing. To hell with the feelings of all of those depressed residents. Those people don't count, not in daschysta's world.

With all due respect, you're the one who's coming across as ignorant with your grandiose inflating of your own opinion.

You like Portland's environment. That's fine.
You like Portland's climate. Perfectly acceptable.
You like Portland's politics. Fair enough.

Portland seems to be your ideal city, so of course you'll find it agreeable. You're entitled to that belief, and I'm in no way challenging it. I hope you move to Portland live a happy, healthy life.

However, conversely, I think Portland's politics are backwards, and that the city's rainy, cloudy climate -- quite frankly -- sucks. With that said, I would never use my single, personal opinion as evidence that the city is lousy. I'm not so foolishly arrogant as to think my opinion should be taken as unchallengeable truth, nor that it reflects the thoughts and opinions of everyone else.

rabid
07-08-2012, 05:30 PM
However, conversely, I think Portland's politics are backwards, and that the city's rainy, cloudy climate -- quite frankly -- sucks. With that said, I would never use my single, personal opinion as evidence that the city is lousy. I'm not so foolishly arrogant as to think my opinion should be taken as unchallengeable truth, nor that it reflects the thoughts and opinions of everyone else.

But you're arrogant enough to say these things without ever having been there, aren't you?

cinotimz
07-08-2012, 05:33 PM
You really can't grasp the fact that just because you find Portland to be "agreeable," that not everyone does, can you? Apparently, the entire world is dictated solely by daschysta's opinions. If daschysta thinks Portland is amazing, well, then, Portland is amazing. To hell with the feelings of all of those depressed residents. Those people don't count, not in daschysta's world.

With all due respect, you're the one who's coming across as ignorant with your grandiose inflating of your own opinion.

You like Portland's environment. That's fine.
You like Portland's climate. Perfectly acceptable.
You like Portland's politics. Fair enough.

Portland seems to be your ideal city, so of course you'll find it agreeable. You're entitled to that belief, and I'm in no way challenging it. I hope you move to Portland live a happy, healthy life.

However, conversely, I think Portland's politics are backwards, and that the city's rainy, cloudy climate -- quite frankly -- sucks. With that said, I would never use my single, personal opinion as evidence that the city is lousy. I'm not so foolishly arrogant as to think my opinion should be taken as unchallengeable truth, nor that it reflects the thoughts and opinions of everyone else.

not that it really matters...but indy gets more annual rainfall than portland does....

daschysta
07-08-2012, 05:36 PM
You really can't grasp the fact that just because you find Portland to be "agreeable," that not everyone does, can you? Apparently, the entire world is dictated solely by daschysta's opinions. If daschysta thinks Portland is amazing, well, then, Portland is amazing. To hell with the feelings of all of those depressed residents. Those people don't count, not in daschysta's world.

With all due respect, you're the one who's coming across as ignorant with your grandiose inflating of your own opinion.

You like Portland's environment. That's fine.
You like Portland's climate. Perfectly acceptable.
You like Portland's politics. Fair enough.

Portland seems to be your ideal city, so of course you'll find it agreeable. You're entitled to that belief, and I'm in no way challenging it. I hope you move to Portland live a happy, healthy life.

However, conversely, I think Portland's politics are backwards, and that the city's rainy, cloudy climate -- quite frankly -- sucks. With that said, I would never use my single, personal opinion as evidence that the city is lousy. I'm not so foolishly arrogant as to think my opinion should be taken as unchallengeable truth, nor that it reflects the thoughts and opinions of everyone else.

The difference here is that only one of us is participating in the bashing of a place that he has absolutely no experience with, as well as an entire group of of people. You didn't put forth your assertions as perfectly acceptable personal preference, you called an entire region ignorant, backwards hippies. The equivalent would be me calling Indiana as a whole a bunch of myopic, rednecks who know very little outside of their own backyards, that isn't my opinion, I am from here, it isn't an awful place, and I wouldn't say that, but that is pretty much what you did. Your opinion is yours and can be whatever you would like it to be, but you were masquerading your offensive opinions as fact, and continuously flopping around a business weekly article as justification.

I wasn't putting forth my opinions as fact, I was disputing your offensive stereotyping with a personal experience/opinion. If you are willing to call an entire group of people ignorant, dirty, or politically backwards be prepared to own up and defend your tripe. You've never been to Portland, and you are the one that is making a positive statement regarding the people of the place, the burden of proof is on you if you're going to post offensive things, don't get ruffled if you're challenged on the basis of what you post. Otherwise this isn't a discussion board, it's just a place to post tangential thoughts.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 05:38 PM
Hey look, I can use Google too!

According to this actual psychiatric research site, Indiana is the 4th most depressing state to live in the entire U.S. in 2011. Huh, interesting. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/12/26/the-most-depressing-places-to-live-in-the-u-s-2011/.

This article is the #1 google result when you search for "most depressed city."

I guess now I can use this article and ignore any and all other information given to me, so I can proceed to stereotype and stir s*** up. The article is well-researched after all, so why on earth would anyone ever want to live in Indiana? Sounds like a crappy place.

I've never claimed Indiana was an amazing place to live. In fact, I pointed out that Indiana's largest city, Indianapolis, was ranked as the 16th-most unhappy city in America. We're not glamorous people. If you think pointing this out is some sort of revelation or will hurt anyone's feelings, think again. Unlike other places, Indy is humble. We don't believe a few bike trails and a bunch of trees makes us a paradise.

By the way, that article lists Portland as the second-most depressed city in America, per-capita, based on Google searches, behind only fellow P.N. city Seattle. Also, Oregon ranked as the 8th-most depressed state, per-capita, compared to Indiana's ranking of 13th.

So, your article not only confirms my claim that Portland is a depressed city, but it actually shows that it extends into the entire state.

For that I thank you. :)

Kstat
07-08-2012, 05:42 PM
I've never claimed Indiana was an amazing place to live. In fact, I pointed out that Indiana's largest city, Indianapolis, was ranked as the 16th-most unhappy city in America. We're not glamorous people. If you think pointing this out is some sort of revelation or will hurt anyone's feelings, think again. Unlike other places, Indy is humble. We don't believe a few bike trails and a bunch of trees makes us a paradise.


...and yet....


while Indy may be far from glamorous, it's seemingly paradise compared to Portland and Detroit.

Ugliness FTW.

BTW, the fact you decided to involve Detroit, which had zero place in this discussion, for no reason whatsoever other than your desire to troll me, is sad.

rabid
07-08-2012, 05:43 PM
I've never claimed Indiana was an amazing place to live. In fact, I pointed out that Indiana's largest city, Indianapolis, was ranked as the 16th-most unhappy city in America. We're not glamorous people. If you think pointing this out is some sort of revelation or will hurt anyone's feelings, think again. Unlike other places, Indy is humble. We don't believe a few bike trails and a bunch of trees makes us a paradise.

By the way, that article lists Portland as the second-most depressed city in America, per-capita, based on Google searches, behind only fellow P.N. city Seattle. Also, Oregon ranked as the 8th-most depressed state, per-capita, compared to Indiana's ranking of 13th.

So, your article not only confirms my claim that Portland is a depressed city, but it actually shows that it extends into the entire state.

For that I thank you. :)

You're pretty dense, aren't you? I lived in Indiana for 30 years, I'm not bashing Indiana at all, THUS THE GREEN FONT. I'm pointing out how silly your LOGIC is, by using the exact same reasoning (dig up an online article, generalize it into a general bashing and stereotyping of an entire place).

EDIT: Of course, logic isn't your goal at all here, is it?


I think Portland's politics are backwards, and that the city's rainy, cloudy climate -- quite frankly -- sucks.


(Portland is an) overgrown village


Could it be that being surrounded by lots of trees, bike trails, and politically-confused, non-showering hippies isn't the ideal setting for most young black men?

You've never even been there, do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? :laugh:

Keep digging that hole, buddy, it's getting deeper with every post you make...

daschysta
07-08-2012, 05:45 PM
I've never claimed Indiana was an amazing place to live. In fact, I pointed out that Indiana's largest city, Indianapolis, was ranked as the 16th-most unhappy city in America. We're not glamorous people. If you think pointing this out is some sort of revelation or will hurt anyone's feelings, think again. Unlike other places, Indy is humble. We don't believe a few bike trails and a bunch of trees makes us a paradise.

By the way, that article lists Portland as the second-most depressed city in America, per-capita, based on Google searches, behind only fellow P.N. city Seattle. Also, Oregon ranked as the 8th-most depressed state, per-capita, compared to Indiana's ranking of 13th.


So, your article not only confirms my claim that Portland is a depressed city, but it actually shows that it extends into the entire state.

For that I thank you. :)

That article doesn't use an acceptable criteria to determine actual instances of depression either, it's a curiosity exercise that only shows who searches for depression on google the most.

(from the article)

This is not a scientific study! This is not a scientific study!
If this were a scientific study, Iíd have published it in a scientific journal. Instead, itís just a little fun with Google Trends. Weíve since added the population-adjusted list for comparison.

Neither articles are actually scientific studies, or have enough validity to make the claims you were making, that, is rapibpacersfans point... The Business Weekly article has no real validity either.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 05:47 PM
...and yet....

I didn't say Indy was a paradise, I said it was seemingly a paradise compared to two places ranked as the most and fourth-most unhappy cities in America.

There are lots of places that are seemingly paradises when compared to Detroit. That doesn't mean all -- or even any -- of those places are actual paradises, it just means Detroit is a really, really crummy city. And it is.

rabid
07-08-2012, 05:50 PM
I didn't say Indy was a paradise, I said it was seemingly a paradise compared to two places ranked as the most and fourth-most unhappy cities in America.

....which you've never visited. Sorry man, we will have to agree to disagree, your internet article does *not,* in fact, trump the opinions of the people in this conversation that unlike you, have actually been to all of the places you are comparing.

It really blows my mind that you are doubling-down on your argument when you admit you're never visited the place. I mean just wow.

ksuttonjr76
07-08-2012, 05:52 PM
Are we really arguing whether or not Portland is good place to live??? With MILLIONS of dollars, I could make Alaska a "great" place to live.

daschysta
07-08-2012, 05:54 PM
I didn't say Indy was a paradise, I said it was seemingly a paradise compared to two places ranked as the most and fourth-most unhappy cities in America.

There are lots of places that are seemingly paradises when compared to Detroit. That doesn't mean all -- or even any -- of those places are actual paradises, it just means Detroit is a really, really crummy city. And it is.

Detroit has fallen on hard times, at one time it was one of America's greatest cities, that isn't the point though, the point is why bring up Detroit at all other than to be inflammatory, or to purposely needle Kstat? Detroit isn't responsible for the decline in purchasing power of working class wage earners, the outsourcing of factory work and the diaspora of the Auto Industry in any personal way, and has NOTHING do with discussing Portland signing Roy to an offer sheet. So... Why?

But, I'm finished, this is going nowhere.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 05:57 PM
So how long have you lived in Detroit?

It's called an indirect inference. It's how we can come to conclusions about certain things without firsthand experience.

I don't need to visit Detroit to know that it's crummy. I've seen the crime rates. I've seen the unemployment rates. I've seen the depression rates. I've seen the photos and the videos of the city.

The once-mighty has fallen, and it's fallen hard. Robocop's not walking through that door anytime soon.

OlBlu
07-08-2012, 05:59 PM
Are we really arguing whether or not Portland is good place to live??? With MILLIONS of dollars, I could make Alaska a "great" place to live.

Alaska is a great place to live......:cool: If you live around Anchorage, the climate is probably better than Indy. Now, Fairbanks, that is another matter.....:cool:

Kstat
07-08-2012, 05:59 PM
I don't need to visit Detroit to know that it's crummy.

...so that makes two cities you haven't visited, yet are certain are inferior to Indianapolis....

OlBlu
07-08-2012, 06:00 PM
...so that makes two cities you haven't been to.....

I suspect there are a lot more. Detroit area has some wonderful places like Greenfield Village and the Farmington Hills area.......:cool:

Kstat
07-08-2012, 06:03 PM
I suspect there are a lot more. Detroit area has some wonderful places like Greenfield Village and the Farmington Hills area.......:cool:

Belle Isle, Ford Field, Comerica Park, Pine Knob, The Henry Ford Museum, Hitsville USA, the RenCen...

rabid
07-08-2012, 06:03 PM
As a general point, I do think it's sad our culture here in the U.S. over the past few years seems to have shifted to a point (with the help of the internet and cable news) where we are able to filter out viewpoints and information that we don't find convenient to our worldview.

I genuinely feel that one way to counteract this is for people to get out and travel more when they can, particularly to places that are different from what you're used to. Places like Europe, Latin America, the Far East... it's really an eye-opener when you finally visit these places, and it's much harder to stereotype peoples and cultures negatively when you've actually met people there, experienced how they live, and see what their challenges, issues, and desires are. Just reading about it isn't the same.

This applies to domestic U.S. destinations too, both urban and rural. I remember the first couple times I made coast-to-coast trips (first by Amtrak, then by car) and really got to see parts of the U.S. I hadn't seen before. I can't overstate how eye-opening it was. Part of what is so annoying to me about GrangeRusHibbert's arguments is that he seems so *certain* about a place, just based on some online article, coupled with whatever preconceptions he already had, and he willfully discounts opinions of people that have actually been to the place. The willful ignorance is just astounding to me.

I don't know about you guys but I see this lazy thinking more and more these days, especially online... in political conversations, religious discussions, conversations where people judge entire groups of people, or stereotypes of certain places (i.e. Portland is full of dirty hippies, Detroit is full of criminals, Indy is full of rednecks, San Francisco is full of libruls and gays, etc). I'm tired of it and I won't take it from people who are too lazy to go out and personally experience the things they are criticizing or at least listen to and consider the opinions of people who have.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 06:05 PM
Detroit has fallen on hard times, at one time it was one of America's greatest cities, that isn't the point though, the point is why bring up Detroit at all other than to be inflammatory, or to purposely needle Kstat? Detroit isn't responsible for the decline in purchasing power of working class wage earners, the outsourcing of factory work and the diaspora of the Auto Industry in any personal way, and has NOTHING do with discussing Portland signing Roy to an offer sheet. So... Why?

But, I'm finished, this is going nowhere.

I've never once said that Detroit didn't play a significant role in America's development. Everyone knows about the city's rich history of automobile manufacturing. I'm also sure there are plenty of good, hardworking people who live in Detroit. With that said, the city has devolved into a total disaster. The issue isn't who or what caused the downfall of the city, but that it has, in fact, happened.

For the record: Detroit was already brought up when I joined the discussion. I just pointed out that asterix's claims, as crass as they were, had a lot of truth to them.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 06:23 PM
...so that makes two cities you haven't visited, yet are certain are inferior to Indianapolis....

My actual comment:


while Indy may be far from glamorous, it's seemingly paradise compared to Portland and Detroit.

What part of the word seemingly do you believe indicates certainty?

If you have to lie to make a counterargument -- and you do, seemingly -- then you probably shouldn't be making a counterargument in the first place.

rabid
07-08-2012, 06:24 PM
There are lots of places that are seemingly paradises when compared to Detroit. That doesn't mean all -- or even any -- of those places are actual paradises, it just means Detroit is a really, really crummy city. And it is.

There is about zero reason to make a statement about this other than to be trolling. Seriously. You've been exposed right here, IMO...

Hoop
07-08-2012, 06:30 PM
In between the silliness of debating who's city is the worst maybe I missed it.

Can more than one team offer a max contract? They would all have to be a same amount money, right?

We are the only ones that can pay more, don't see why we would if we don't have do anything more than just match.

If more than one team were to offer the Max, does the player choose were he goes if we don't match?


I'll always have a love\hate relationship with Detroit. Love for all the classic 60's American muscle cars that were based out of Detroit and hate for that god awful team called the Pistons (sorry Kstat) ;)

Lance George
07-08-2012, 06:31 PM
There is about zero reason to make a statement about this other than to be trolling. Seriously. You've been exposed right here, IMO...

:confused:

Kstat asked me how long I've lived in Detroit, implying that, since I had never lived there, I couldn't comment on the city (a really bad argument, imo). I pointed out Detroit's high crime, unemployment, and depression rates to make the point that I can know things about the city (to a reasonable degree) without having ever lived there.

How is that trolling?

rabid
07-08-2012, 06:36 PM
:confused:

Kstat asked me how long I've lived in Detroit, implying that, since I had never lived there, I couldn't comment on the city (a really bad argument, imo). I pointed out Detroit's high crime, unemployment, and depression rates to make the point that I can know things about the city (to a reasonable degree) without having ever lived there.

How is that trolling?

EDIT: it was the part of your comment that contained this (in response to Kstat, who you know is a Pistons fan):


It just means Detroit is a really, really, crummy city. And it is.

That last bit especially. You're not stating this as your opinion. You're making a definitive statement (about a place you're never even f%%^%& been to lol!) just to try to get under Kstat's skin (unfortunately for you, he knows better).

You either know for a fact you're doing it, or your debate skills really are that poor that you don't realize it. Either way it severely hurts your credibility in this whole discussion (along with tons of other examples, many of which I've quoted above and you ignored completely).

Before this thread you were just one of many people on this site who's opinions about basketball I enjoyed reading occasionally. Now I'm about one click from putting you on my ignore list.

Maybe go back and read all the other rebuttals I've posted to your "arguments" in this thread, and you'll get it. If not, tough.

Hoop
07-08-2012, 06:48 PM
In between the silliness of debating who's city is the worst maybe I missed it.

Can more than one team offer a max contract? They would all have to be a same amount money, right?

We are the only ones that can pay more, don't see why we would if we don't have do anything more than just match.

If more than one team were to offer the Max, does the player choose were he goes if we don't match?


I'll always have a love\hate relationship with Detroit. Love for all the classic 60's American muscle cars that were based out of Detroit and hate for that god awful team called the Pistons (sorry Kstat) ;)

Anyone?

Slick Pinkham
07-08-2012, 06:50 PM
echoing Hoop, anyone care to make basketball-related posts, or am I in the wrong forum?

IndyHoya
07-08-2012, 06:53 PM
Just curious and I know it won't happen, but what would be the result of Roy not signing Portland's offer sheet?

rabid
07-08-2012, 06:54 PM
Can more than one team offer a max contract?


As far as I know yes. Though once Hibbert signs an offer sheet, all other offers are moot other than the Pacers and the team he signed with


They would all have to be a same amount money, right?

Technically I think someone could offer a non-max offer sheet and Hibbert could sign that one instead, but he already said he's going to sign the Portland offer sheet. But until Hibbert signs any team can offer whatever, doesn't have to be max IIRC



If more than one team were to offer the Max, does the player choose were he goes if we don't match?

EDIT: misread you here at first. Once Hibbert *signs* an offer sheet from any *one* team, the he goes to that team if the Pacers decline, no matter what other offers might come in.

The process is:

- teams (no apparent limit to how many) can submit offers for Roy to look at
- roy can sign any ONE of these, but not more than one.
- if roy signs one of these offers (which he *hasn't* yet - he can't until the 11th - but has stated his intention to sign Portland's offer), everything else is now irrelevant outside of the Pacers and the team whose offer he signed (Portland).

Once Roy signs on the 11th, no 3rd team can swoop in or make an offer. But I suppose in theory another team could swoop in now and Roy could change his mind, but that essentially doesn't ever really happen

Kstat
07-08-2012, 06:56 PM
Just curious and I know it won't happen, but what would be the result of Roy not signing Portland's offer sheet?

His agent takes a major credibility hit, and Hibbert goes back to Indy for less money since he'd have killed his other options.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 06:57 PM
Anyone?

Multiple teams can extend offer sheets, and it's up to the player to decide which one he'd like to sign based on whatever factors he deems most important (per-year salary, length of contract, expected role with the team, etc.).

Like I said earlier, this could explain why the second team who reportedly made Roy a max offer has remained unnamed -- they don't wanna be exposed as a team that was spurned in favor of Portland.

CJ Jones
07-08-2012, 07:19 PM
...and nobody here has said that, either. People need to stop taking this personally.

I'm not taking it personally, my point is there's no reason to speculate on why Roy might want to be in Portland when it's probably not even be true. Now, if he comes out publicly and says he wants out like the other RFAs, then I probably will take it personal.

edit: basically it's all about the cash, as it should be. I seriously doubt any other team was willing to pay him the max. He got it so he agreed to terms, but he wants to be a Pacer... that's how I see it until I hear otherwise from Roy.

xBulletproof
07-08-2012, 07:47 PM
:suicide5:

cinotimz
07-08-2012, 07:48 PM
His agent takes a major credibility hit, and Hibbert goes back to Indy for less money since he'd have killed his other options.

Lol. Yes. David Falk is really worried about taking a credibility hit. A 'major' one at that. You would think all these guys were simple-minded imbeciles based on your takes on this situation. Roy Hibbert wants to stay in Indy. Hes been saying that for quite some time. David Falk wants him to stay in Indy. Now they both have different reasons for such. Roy likes it in Indy and feels a certain amount of loyalty to them based on his progression etc., though with Bird leaving some of that may have evaporated. Falk wants him to stay because its where he can get the most money. As is typical in negotiations, the Pacers were offereing one thing all along while Falk and company were certainly looking for the max. You can almost be sure the Pacers have been offering 5 years at between 50 and 60 million. Which isnt the max. So Falk goes out and gets a max 4 year offer from Portland knowing full well of Paul Allens hardon for Pritchard. And of course he says Roy will sign it. The idea being getting the Pacers to step up their offer per year on a 5 year deal. He doesnt really want Roy to sign it because once that happens Roy leaves that 5th year on the table. You can rest assured that as soon as Falk got Portlands offer he immediately went back to Indy and said heres what we got, not how bout ponying up for the max at 5 years. To which they said, we dont know about that. After that you have things hitting the media that Roy will sign the offer sheet. Its all so simple. BAck and forth negotiations. Falk is trying to drive the 5 year offer up. The pacers now have options. They can up the offer for 5 years, which is what Falk is hoping for. Or they can go ahead and let him sign the offer sheet for 4 years and then match. Saving them the extra year, but costing them more per year than they had hoped. Simple negotiations. So if they up their offer on the 5 year deal, you could hear that the Pacers have agreed with Hibbert on a 5 year deal. I dont think thats gonna happen but its still entirely possible until Roy signs the offer sheet. And as discussed, thats incentive for Roy to not sign the sheet right away. But assuming the Pacers dont want to up their offer that much, which I think is quite likely, you then will have Roy sign the offer sheet. Thus officially giving up the 5th year. In which case its quite likely the pacers then match. Falk knows this. Falk knows theyre gonna hold onto him. Thats why hes trying to find a way to get the 5 yr out of them. But while he might get his client more money per year, its appearing more and more likely hes gonna lose out on that extra year. Which has been the real objective all along. The Pacers have been looking for a hometown discount in exchange for that extra year. Time will tell if they get it or not. And that time isnt up until Roy signs the sheet. And it has nothing to do with any agent taking a hit or anything else. Its called negotiations.

Pacer Fan
07-08-2012, 08:10 PM
I'm not taking it personally, my point is there's no reason to speculate on why Roy might want to be in Portland when it's probably not even be true. Now, if he comes out publicly and says he wants out like the other RFAs, then I probably will take it personal.

edit: basically it's all about the cash, as it should be. I seriously doubt any other team was willing to pay him the max. He got it so he agreed to terms, but he wants to be a Pacer... that's how I see it until I hear otherwise from Roy.

As far as I know Roy hasn't agreed to terms. I have not seen anywhere where he has an agreement with Portland on any sorts. Portland simply offered Roy max and he is chewing on the bone as anxious as we are on what's going to happen. Also, all the other teams that might have shown interest are not willing to pay max or he would have visit them at least. It would be simply rude of Roy not to give all max offer teams a chance! You just don't cut your bridges down like that. And, it wouldn't surprise me if the Pacers get him for a little less then Portland's offer. It happens all the time where players end up signing for less to stay where they are. I can't blame Roy of going out there and proving to the Pacers that he is worth more then what Pacers offered him, it doesn't mean he wont still negotiate when the time is running out. It gives him leverage. One more thing, I am sure that's why Roy's corner is so tight lipped.

*astrisk*
07-08-2012, 08:16 PM
Only way Falk takes a credibility hit is if Roy signs a Max offer with somebody other than Portland or Indy. If Indy came back with a 5th year, reasonable but not Max, nobody would blame Falk in the least. Especially when. Perception is that Hibbert isn't worth Max...

xBulletproof
07-08-2012, 08:28 PM
Only way Falk takes a credibility hit is if Roy signs a Max offer with somebody other than Portland or Indy. If Indy came back with a 5th year, reasonable but not Max, nobody would blame Falk in the least. Especially when. Perception is that Hibbert isn't worth Max...

False. In a business where things are done on handshake deals every year, as teams make decisions and continue their pursuit of free agents and conduct business based on those handshake deals ..... as an agent you can't have teams questioning your word. Once you say you're signing a deal, you sign that deal. No if's ands, or buts about it.

He wont' take a credibility hit with the average Joe, but with NBA teams and executives, yes he will. Quite a big hit, actually. I can't believe people are still even entertaining this silliness.

Day-V
07-08-2012, 08:43 PM
I've gone through all 6 pages of this thread......

What the **** did I just read?

avoidingtheclowns
07-08-2012, 09:08 PM
I've gone through all 6 pages of this thread......

What the **** did I just read?

This thread is so over.

Pacer Fan
07-08-2012, 09:09 PM
False. In a business where things are done on handshake deals every year, as teams make decisions and continue their pursuit of free agents and conduct business based on those handshake deals ..... as an agent you can't have teams questioning your word. Once you say you're signing a deal, you sign that deal. No if's ands, or buts about it.

He wont' take a credibility hit with the average Joe, but with NBA teams and executives, yes he will. Quite a big hit, actually. I can't believe people are still even entertaining this silliness.

Have you seen a handshake with Hibbert and Portland? I'm really not sure why you badgered him as silliness when obviously nobody here knows if a handshake ever took place and if one hasn't happened, then Falk isn't going to lose credibility.

rabid
07-08-2012, 09:11 PM
I've gone through all 6 pages of this thread......

What the **** did I just read?

I participated for some reason, and I still agree with you...

OlBlu
07-08-2012, 09:13 PM
I've gone through all 6 pages of this thread......

What the **** did I just read?

Well, some clown who has never been outside of Indiana doesn't think Detroit or Portland are good places to live. Everywhere has good parts and everywhere has bad. Spend some time around Meridian and 38th st in Indy and it doesn't look so hot either. I know Portland is a wonderful place to visit and live. Lots of outdoor stuff to do in a beautiful environment. Mountains and ocean and if Big Foot likes it out there how can that be bad? :cool:

xBulletproof
07-08-2012, 09:18 PM
Have you seen a handshake with Hibbert and Portland? I'm really not sure why you badgered him as silliness when obviously nobody here knows if a handshake ever took place and if one hasn't happened, then Falk isn't going to lose credibility.

They've clearly made their intentions known that they're going to sign the contract. That's a 'handshake agreement'.

Some of you clearly have no idea how any business is ran in the sports world. For school, for fun, and for job purposes I have followed NBA free agency in many facets and with many purposes. All of that experience tells me one thing, Hibbert is going to sign the contract despite silly delusions of Pacers fans that he won't. It doesn't matter what the Pacers offer him at this point. It's happening. Seriously. Page after page of people denying it doesn't change anything.

Lance George
07-08-2012, 09:20 PM
Well, <s>some clown who has never been outside of Indiana</s> people who actually live in each respective city don't think Detroit or Portland are good places to live.

90% less trolling; 100% more accuracy.

Pacer Fan
07-08-2012, 09:26 PM
They've clearly made their intentions known that they're going to sign the contract. That's a 'handshake agreement'.

Some of you clearly have no idea how any business is ran in the sports world. For school, for fun, and for job purposes I have followed NBA free agency in many facets and with many purposes. All of that experience tells me one thing, Hibbert is going to sign the contract despite silly delusions of Pacers fans that he won't. It doesn't matter what the Pacers offer him at this point. It's happening. Seriously. Page after page of people denying it doesn't change anything.

First, you have no idea who I am and I can tell you I have more then enough knowledge and years worked with affiliates of the NBA.

Second, Then prove the so called intentions of him having an agreement. At this point there is nothing but the intent of Portland giving Hibbert an offer sheet.
Please, I beg you to show me evidence of this agreement with Roy and the Blazers. And someone saying that Roy is leaning towards Portland is not a commitment or agreement or a handshake.

xBulletproof
07-08-2012, 09:40 PM
First, you have no idea who I am and I can tell you I have more then enough knowledge and years worked with affiliates of the NBA.

Second, Then prove the so called intentions of him having an agreement. At this point there is nothing but the intent of Portland giving Hibbert an offer sheet.
Please, I beg you to show me evidence of this agreement with Roy and the Blazers. And someone saying that Roy is leaning towards Portland is not a commitment or agreement or a handshake.

I don't care who you are. If you knew anything about how the dynamics work with what we're discussing you wouldn't have the view you do.

He's said it several times, here's just one.

Question:

Chris Madia ‏@c_madia

@MikeWellsNBA Do the Pacers still have to match the Blazers offer even though Hibbert did not accept the offer?

Answer:

Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA

@c_madia Hibbert will be signing Portland's offer sheet on July 11

Pretty obvious he accepted it. Secondly, here's from JULY ****ING FIRST, from David Aldridge.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/01/hibbert-leaning-toward-portland-after-max-offer/?ls=iref:nbahpt2


The Pacers are still likely to match the offer ..... But a source indicated Sunday that the organization would have to take a look at the offer before making a definitive commitment.

The team’s owner, Herb Simon, has OK’d a decision to go either way depending on what the team’s new basketball operations group, led by team president Donnie Walsh and general manager Kevin Pritchard (Portland’s GM from 2007-10), ultimately recommend.

So let me get this straight, Herb has OK'd a decision to go "either" way, and they want to look at the offer before deciding which way to go, but he hasn't agreed to sign it? Yeah, um .... sure.

Ever since July 1st it's been crystal damn clear he's signing that offer sheet. People just don't want to see it and are stubborn and blind as can be.

I'm going to have to take a break from this site. People have gotten nuttier than squirrel **** on here since free agency started.

Pacer Fan
07-08-2012, 09:48 PM
I don't care who you are. If you knew anything about how the dynamics work with what we're discussing you wouldn't have the view you do.

He's said it several times, here's just one.

Question:


Answer:


Pretty obvious he accepted it. Secondly, here's from JULY ****ING FIRST, from David Aldridge.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/01/hibbert-leaning-toward-portland-after-max-offer/?ls=iref:nbahpt2



So let me get this straight, Herb has OK'd a decision to go "either" way, and they want to look at the offer before deciding which way to go, but he hasn't agreed to sign it? Yeah, um .... sure.

Ever since July 1st it's been crystal damn clear he's signing that offer sheet. People just don't want to see it and are stubborn and blind as can be.

I'm going to have to take a break from this site. People have gotten nuttier than squirrel **** on here since free agency started.

None of that shows that there is an agreement or handshake between the 2 parties. It is standard for a team or teams to put offer sheets on the table for players. This does not mean that there has been an agreement. The intent of a agreement will happen the day a player signs an offer sheet and not before, unless it has been publicly disclosed. Which, it has not been in this case.

All those post you provided is standard procedure of an NBA RFA process and nothing more, nothing less.

I'm still waiting for that proof!

Hicks
07-08-2012, 09:59 PM
*reads thread*

..... really?