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View Full Version : Should the Pacers match Portland's offer sheet to Roy?



Shade
07-06-2012, 09:16 PM
Despite reports that the Pacers are 50-50 on the idea, the overwhelming sentiment here seems to be that the Pacers should match the Blazers' offer sheet to Hibbert, even though some of those people (such as myself) don't necessarily believe he's a max-level player.

So, let's break it down to the cold, hard numbers only a poll can provide.

Should the Pacers match Portland's offer sheet to Roy?

Psyren
07-06-2012, 09:19 PM
Theres not a question that hes not a max level player.

That being said, they should match. Legit 7 footers with his skillset arent easy to find. Hes an important piece to this team going forward.

However, I dont think we'll be matching.

Steagles
07-06-2012, 09:22 PM
If we don't match Roy we will be right back where we started- looking for young players that will have prices driven up later.

Hypnotiq
07-06-2012, 09:23 PM
I think we will match and we will regret it a few years down the road

joew8302
07-06-2012, 09:26 PM
Yes, we have to.

Even if this means we have to let Paul George go in a few years we have to. Roy is a top 5 center, I don't think you could say that about any other player on the Pacers at this point.

Sandman21
07-06-2012, 09:26 PM
If we don't match, then Walsh and Pritchard better have ONE HELL of a backup plan (and it better NOT be Chris Kaman) or they should just packing their bags.

For that reason, we will match.

mrknowname
07-06-2012, 09:27 PM
yeah why not and if they regret it they should be able to move a la nene

Steagles
07-06-2012, 09:31 PM
If we ever regret it, there is someone else always willing to take on bad contracts for good players- like the Pacers and Barbosa.

pacers74
07-06-2012, 09:32 PM
Yes, he might not be a "max" guy, but he is worth at least 11 or 12 mil per year. So you over pay pay a couple of mil per year for a guy who works his arse off, is perfect for the community, and has improved each year since he was drafted.

Just the fact that he does so much around Indy should be reason enough to resign him over getting Kamen for a few mil less.

pacers74
07-06-2012, 09:34 PM
Let's let this group have a full training camp together and see how good they can be. If Brooklyn doesn't get Dwight I see a number 2 seed in our future if we keep Roy.

Lance George
07-06-2012, 09:51 PM
20-0, in favor of yes.

1984
07-06-2012, 09:55 PM
A new way of looking at Roy. The difference between where the Pacers are and where the Blazers are is Dahntay Jones ($3,000,000.00). So, is keeping Roy worth loosing Dahntay Jones (or future players like him)?

xBulletproof
07-06-2012, 09:56 PM
I voted yes. I'm 60-40 on the idea in favor, so that's my vote.

At the very least he would be an easily traded commodity at any time. There are several teams that would trade for him at any point during that contract even if we do have delayed sticker shock down the road.

Cactus Jax
07-06-2012, 10:00 PM
I'll vote yes, but it doesn't bother me as much if they don't. I think the whole idea of Roy being this crazy ticket seller is a myth, I mean he's great for the hardcore Pacers fans, but casual's aren't going to go out of their way to see Roy Hibbert. He's not a max guy at all.

MiaDragon
07-06-2012, 10:05 PM
I want to say no, but then again I have zero faith in the FO to spend the money saved to better the team. Yea Ill be the first to say no, we should not.

Doddage
07-06-2012, 10:06 PM
Aside from the fact that he plays a premium position, the Pacers spent 4 years developing him to the point where he became an all-star. It would be a waste if we had nothing to show for that. You don't want him on the roster? Fine. Still match the offer and keep him around until you are allowed trade him and find an offer you like. The point is, a team like ours can't afford to waste an asset like Roy.

To put it lightly, I will not be comfortable if all the investment the team and fans put into Roy amount to Portland reaping the benefits.

1984
07-06-2012, 10:10 PM
Paul George has three seasons left on his contract. Therefore, a five year contract for Roy seems irrelevant. Most certainly adjustments can be made if necessary. I would rather have walked away from George Hill than Roy Hibbert. Hill can be replaced for less than $40,000,000.00. However, I dare you to replace Roy Hibbert.

xBulletproof
07-06-2012, 10:13 PM
Paul George has three seasons left on his contract.

Actually, he has 2.

Kemo
07-06-2012, 10:30 PM
If the Pacer's F.O. DON'T match.... .... .... Well it's been fun and I'd have to bid you great people adieu ....

MaHa3000
07-06-2012, 10:46 PM
Yes, but he better play like top $ . And Vogel better find more ways of getting Roy the ball in the post. I'd hate to watch our max player never get the ball where he should. Also, I don't want to watch my 7'2"-$14,000,000 center get pushed around down low (by Glen Davis) and be ineffective (at times) in the playoffs.

If he continues to improve like he has each year so far then the big contract will be justified. If he plateaus or falls off a bit I think we'll regret it and probably wish we would of let him walk.

Don't forget that this new contract of Roy's comes with a boat load of expectations. Is Roy the type to flourish in that situation. Or will he crumble under the pressure. Remember how JOB use to effect him, and those issues that caused him to seek therapy? That wasn't too long ago.

Kraut N Beer
07-06-2012, 11:59 PM
I thought the Pacers were a little too quick to sign Hill too, and thought money would be better spent on Hibbert. I think signing Hibbert means eventually saying goodbye to Granger or West or both, if Paul George continues to develop. Roy has been remarkably durable early in his career, a credit to Roy's work ethic, but also in some part due to the organization and coaching staff managing his minutes quite well. Still, I worry about injuries for guys as big as Hibbert. Pros to signing: work ethic and desire to improve, improving statistics and offensive game, involvement in the community, fan support, national visibility and recognizability, age during next contract coincides to pros being in the primes of their careers. Cons to signing: not really what most consider to be an elite player, probably not worth a full max contract (but a "fair" value is likely close due to Roy being a top tier center), Portland is only team coming after Roy for a max contract (why not others that had money to spend?), will occupy about a quarter of the team's cap, plays a low number of minutes per game versus most NBA stars.

I would sign him versus letting him walk. Perhaps a sign and trade with another team may be in the works.

daschysta
07-07-2012, 12:49 AM
Yes, but he better play like top $ . And Vogel better find more ways of getting Roy the ball in the post. I'd hate to watch our max player never get the ball where he should. Also, I don't want to watch my 7'2"-$14,000,000 center get pushed around down low (by Glen Davis) and be ineffective (at times) in the playoffs.

If he continues to improve like he has each year so far then the big contract will be justified. If he plateaus or falls off a bit I think we'll regret it and probably wish we would of let him walk.

Don't forget that this new contract of Roy's comes with a boat load of expectations. Is Roy the type to flourish in that situation. Or will he crumble under the pressure. Remember how JOB use to effect him, and those issues that caused him to seek therapy? That wasn't too long ago.

There is nothing wrong with therapy, many people who are public figures use it to contextualize their experience and are better for it, it isn't a negative, and certainly isn't a sign of weakness.

Eleazar
07-07-2012, 12:56 AM
Yes, but he better play like top $ . And Vogel better find more ways of getting Roy the ball in the post. I'd hate to watch our max player never get the ball where he should. Also, I don't want to watch my 7'2"-$14,000,000 center get pushed around down low (by Glen Davis) and be ineffective (at times) in the playoffs.

If he continues to improve like he has each year so far then the big contract will be justified. If he plateaus or falls off a bit I think we'll regret it and probably wish we would of let him walk.

Don't forget that this new contract of Roy's comes with a boat load of expectations. Is Roy the type to flourish in that situation. Or will he crumble under the pressure. Remember how JOB use to effect him, and those issues that caused him to seek therapy? That wasn't too long ago.

Don't forget that there are two sides of the game, and Hibbert's presence alone does many things to help this team be much better than they are without him.

Eleazar
07-07-2012, 12:57 AM
I'll vote yes, but it doesn't bother me as much if they don't. I think the whole idea of Roy being this crazy ticket seller is a myth, I mean he's great for the hardcore Pacers fans, but casual's aren't going to go out of their way to see Roy Hibbert. He's not a max guy at all.

This has nothing to do with selling tickets, and everything to do with building the best basketball team possible.

Dece
07-07-2012, 01:05 AM
I voted no, but mostly just chose an answer at random to see the results. Truth is it really depends on what other moves we are making/plan to make this year and the next. If we just struck out on every FA and had a terrible draft, which is what it feels like at this moment (could be wrong, don't have all the info, but feels like it), then I say don't re-sign, dump DG33 for the best pick we can get, dump West for the best pick we can get, and get some lotto picks going. The trouble I have with just bringing Hill and Hibbert back is... we aren't a threat to win a title. Listen, I'm not saying we gotta have the talent to be favorites... I don't think we've been favorites at any point in my entire life, but we have to at least be good enough to threaten a good run at the title, if things fall our way. Now, if this draft is secretly awesome and we got some FA's coming in and we WILL be good enough to threaten with Hibbert, then hey, let's do that up. All I want is a team with a legit CHANCE to win it all.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
07-07-2012, 01:08 AM
They will match. Walsh and Co. have a history of overpaying for their own FA's. They just overpayed for Hill. Granger is overpayed. And why go into the recent past again and talk about Tinsley, O'Neal, Foster, etc?

The only question in my mind is what are they going to do when Hansbrough, Collison, West, and George are due contracts. They can't afford them all.

jeffg-body
07-07-2012, 01:09 AM
I went ahead and said yes, but I wonder if we offer Roy more money by the fifth year instead of a max contract for four years. Something like 5 year 65 million with the fifth year being a player option to stay in Indy.

Eleazar
07-07-2012, 01:13 AM
They will match. Walsh and Co. have a history of overpaying for their own FA's. They just overpayed for Hill. Granger is overpayed. And why go into the recent past again and talk about Tinsley, O'Neal, Foster, etc?

The only question in my mind is what are they going to do when Hansbrough, Collison, West, and George are due contracts. They can't afford them all.

Woah there Granger is not overpayed one bit.

Cactus Jax
07-07-2012, 01:13 AM
Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson would disagree that Danny Granger is overpaid.

PGisthefuture
07-07-2012, 01:16 AM
They will match. Walsh and Co. have a history of overpaying for their own FA's. They just overpayed for Hill. Granger is overpayed. And why go into the recent past again and talk about Tinsley, O'Neal, Foster, etc?

The only question in my mind is what are they going to do when Hansbrough, Collison, West, and George are due contracts. They can't afford them all.

Go look up Rashard Lewis' last contract....

pacers74
07-07-2012, 01:20 AM
I voted no, but mostly just chose an answer at random to see the results. Truth is it really depends on what other moves we are making/plan to make this year and the next. If we just struck out on every FA and had a terrible draft, which is what it feels like at this moment (could be wrong, don't have all the info, but feels like it), then I say don't re-sign, dump DG33 for the best pick we can get, dump West for the best pick we can get, and get some lotto picks going. The trouble I have with just bringing Hill and Hibbert back is... we aren't a threat to win a title. Listen, I'm not saying we gotta have the talent to be favorites... I don't think we've been favorites at any point in my entire life, but we have to at least be good enough to threaten a good run at the title, if things fall our way. Now, if this draft is secretly awesome and we got some FA's coming in and we WILL be good enough to threaten with Hibbert, then hey, let's do that up. All I want is a team with a legit CHANCE to win it all.

We were once the favorites to win the title back in 98-99 season. We just didn't get it done. We lost to the Knicks in the Eastern Conference Finals.

I don't think it is time for a total rebuild again. We might not have the same level of talent as Miami, but we don't have their egos either. Our guys will play team basketball better than them. I am not saying we can beat them, but getting rid of Danny, West, and Hibbert isn't going to help our team. You don't know what draft picks you are going to get and it will take years for them to devlop.

We might not have the best team in the east, but with Roy we are a top 3 team, and I will take that over being a lottery team and hoping the lotto balls fall our way.

mikeyism
07-07-2012, 02:08 AM
Got bored..did a quick analysis of centers over the last 10 years that would be considered starter-quality or borderline All-Star, and what they were paid at age 26. Adjusted for inflation. Also assuming Roy's 4 year $58M offer has 10% YOY increases.

Roy Hibbert = est $12.5M
Tyson Chandler = $12.2M
Joakim Noah = $12M
Andrew Bogut = $11.2M
Samuel Dalembert = $10.9M
Eddy Curry = $10.4M
Chris Kaman = $10.2M
Emeka Okafor = $10.2M
Brad Miller = $6m ($8.5M the following year)
Marc Gasol = $3.6M ($12.9M the following year)

I'm not a NBA contract-ologist, but bottom line is that Roy's deal seems aggressive, but not entirely out-of-line compared to his peers.

Brad Miller $6M was his final year with the Pacers before the sign-and-trade to the Kings. In retrospect it looked like the Pacers were walking away from a bargain, especially coming off an All-Star appearance. But the trade was a mad dash in order to avoid the luxury tax.

cdash
07-07-2012, 02:11 AM
Got bored..did a quick analysis of centers over the last 10 years that would be considered starter-quality or borderline All-Star, and what they were paid at age 26. Adjusted for inflation. Also assuming Roy's 4 year $58M offer has 10% YOY increases.

Roy Hibbert = est $12.5M
Tyson Chandler = $12.2M
Joakim Noah = $12M
Andrew Bogut = $11.2M
Samuel Dalembert = $10.9M
Eddy Curry = $10.4M
Chris Kaman = $10.2M
Emeka Okafor = $10.2M
Brad Miller = $6m ($8.5M the following year)
Marc Gasol = $3.6M ($12.9M the following year)

I'm not a NBA contract-ologist, but bottom line is that Roy's deal seems aggressive, but not entirely out-of-line compared to his peers.

Brad Miller $6M was his final year with the Pacers before the sign-and-trade to the Kings. In retrospect it looked like the Pacers were walking away from a bargain, especially coming off an All-Star appearance. But the trade was a mad dash in order to avoid the luxury tax.

While this is great information, the new CBA makes this comparison a little misleading. The closest comparison in terms of talent and impact is probably Marc Gasol. I actually think Gasol might be a smidge better than Roy, but we aren't grossly overpaying.

Sollozzo
07-07-2012, 02:21 AM
They will match. Walsh and Co. have a history of overpaying for their own FA's. They just overpayed for Hill. Granger is overpayed. And why go into the recent past again and talk about Tinsley, O'Neal, Foster, etc?



Right. That means that many of us will be pointing towards ownership if we don't match him. I seriously doubt that Donnie Walsh, a man who has a history of always taking care of his own FA's, wants to begin part 2 of his Pacer career with the loss of a young stud all-star center. That would leave the roster noticeably worse than it was last season. I also don't think KP would like the idea of losing Hibbert to the team he used to work for.

As far as the poll is concerned, this is one of the easiest questions ever asked here, IMHO. You have to match. If they don't match Roy, then what exactly is their plan for getting better? If they are tight with their money then maybe I'll be tight with mine and not be so eager to go to as many games as I have in previous years.

able
07-07-2012, 05:20 AM
There is at most 1.5 mio between Roy's ideal value for money contract and the contract we'd have to give him now, it is nowhere near a real "max" contract (in Roy's case 5/79) and mostly however it is the marketing attraction, the loss of face and goodwill if you don't that makes it a no-brainer, even if it is 4 mio overloaded in the 1st year since that it only a cash considertation and not a cap consideration.

but letting the numnuts in Portland dream and hope to the last minute is worth a smile or two, heck even a big belly laughter if they match last minute.

PacerDude
07-07-2012, 06:43 AM
This has nothing to do with selling tickets, and everything to do with building the best basketball team possible.
I'll disagree a bit. Letting Roy leave would be a PR mess. People like him. He's active and noticeable in the city. He's an engaging guy. Keeping Roy will translate into more ticket sales, more merchandise sales, a better image/reputation for the FO AND make the Pacers a better team.

Win-win.

BornReady#6
07-07-2012, 09:30 AM
Let him walk, and let the blazers be a beacon that shows over paying middle of the road players don't buy you a championship. At worst it causes us to suck next year and we try to get Cody Zeller, Shabazz Muhammes, Nerlens Noel or any of the boat load of 7 footers projected coming into the league next week. If we are real smart we let him walk, and trade Danny for a young player and a high draft pick also too and are right back in this in 2014.

2013mock_draft (http://nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft)

xBulletproof
07-07-2012, 09:38 AM
If he stays Area 55 better double in size with all that money. :laugh:

BornReady#6
07-07-2012, 09:58 AM
2013 big board (http://nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard)

25/100 are centers

ejwallace
07-07-2012, 10:07 AM
Let him walk, and let the blazers be a beacon that shows over paying middle of the road players don't buy you a championship. At worst it causes us to suck next year and we try to get Cody Zeller, Shabazz Muhammes, Nerlens Noel or any of the boat load of 7 footers projected coming into the league next week. If we are real smart we let him walk, and trade Danny for a young player and a high draft pick also too and are right back in this in 2014.

2013mock_draft (http://nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft)

We'd just end up drafting another Plumlee.....

Steagles
07-07-2012, 10:14 AM
J.A. Adande thinks we will bring him back. And Zeller isn't leaving IU. If he didn't leave this year he'll be back for all four IMO.

ksuttonjr76
07-07-2012, 10:15 AM
I voted no, but mostly just chose an answer at random to see the results. Truth is it really depends on what other moves we are making/plan to make this year and the next. If we just struck out on every FA and had a terrible draft, which is what it feels like at this moment (could be wrong, don't have all the info, but feels like it), then I say don't re-sign, dump DG33 for the best pick we can get, dump West for the best pick we can get, and get some lotto picks going. The trouble I have with just bringing Hill and Hibbert back is... we aren't a threat to win a title. Listen, I'm not saying we gotta have the talent to be favorites... I don't think we've been favorites at any point in my entire life, but we have to at least be good enough to threaten a good run at the title, if things fall our way. Now, if this draft is secretly awesome and we got some FA's coming in and we WILL be good enough to threaten with Hibbert, then hey, let's do that up. All I want is a team with a legit CHANCE to win it all.

The reality is...as long as certain market teams keep hoarding all the "star" talent, we're a long shot at a title anyways. The Eastern Conference, by itself, is gong to be a challenge for us.

Miami is Miami
Boston got younger relatively-speaking.
Chicago is Chicago.
NY picked up a TRUE PG in Jason Kidd.
NJ will be a handful if they're able to get Dwight Howard.

An Indiana team WITH Roy Hibbert is our BEST chance to even CONTENDING. I rather see us play hard in the playoffs every year, instead of watching us be a lottery team in HOPES we land a superstar talent in the NBA draft. God...I REALLY hope that Paul George becomes a star player in the future.

Nuntius
07-07-2012, 10:17 AM
Let him walk, and let the blazers be a beacon that shows over paying middle of the road players don't buy you a championship. At worst it causes us to suck next year and we try to get Cody Zeller, Shabazz Muhammes, Nerlens Noel or any of the boat load of 7 footers projected coming into the league next week. If we are real smart we let him walk, and trade Danny for a young player and a high draft pick also too and are right back in this in 2014.

2013mock_draft (http://nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft)

We cannot suck enough with Danny, West and PG. We will still end up in the playoffs. The only difference is that we will be a 1st round exit instead of an ECF candidate.

Eleazar
07-07-2012, 01:44 PM
I'll disagree a bit. Letting Roy leave would be a PR mess. People like him. He's active and noticeable in the city. He's an engaging guy. Keeping Roy will translate into more ticket sales, more merchandise sales, a better image/reputation for the FO AND make the Pacers a better team.

Win-win.

Yes, but that is because he makes this team better, not because his name is Roy Hibbert.

vnzla81
07-07-2012, 01:50 PM
Yes, he might not be a "max" guy, but he is worth at least 11 or 12 mil per year. So you over pay pay a couple of mil per year for a guy who works his arse off, is perfect for the community, and has improved each year since he was drafted.

Just the fact that he does so much around Indy should be reason enough to resign him over getting Kamen for a few mil less.

For all we know Kaman is probably a great guy that does a lot of things for the community, paying somebody because he is likeable and is great in the community is bad business, not saying that I don't want Roy back but using the community thing as a reason to re-sing him should be in the bottom part of the list.

OlBlu
07-07-2012, 01:51 PM
J.A. Adande thinks we will bring him back. And Zeller isn't leaving IU. If he didn't leave this year he'll be back for all four IMO.

He should stay four years. I don't expect much from him or his brother. It is simply physical. They are tall but they are not long players. Those arms are short and the hands are small. That will be a big problem for them in the NBA but not college.....:cool:

Jeremy
07-07-2012, 02:11 PM
I'm one of the few that says no.

PacersHomer
07-07-2012, 04:55 PM
J.A. Adande thinks we will bring him back. And Zeller isn't leaving IU. If he didn't leave this year he'll be back for all four IMO.

No one stays for 4 years if they are lottery players. Next year is the best shot for IU to win a championship so he'll leave after it, championship or not.

spazzxb
07-07-2012, 05:21 PM
I am actually on the fence on this one myself

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 12:15 PM
I say no because Roy should take 2mil less per year and add one year. 5 yrs. 62.5 mil plus incentives. This would be done before the 11th, like today, so the Pacers can move on to FA.

Kstat
07-09-2012, 12:20 PM
I say no because Roy should take 2mil less per year and add one year. 5 yrs. 62.5 mil plus incentives.

....why would Roy do that?

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 12:23 PM
....why would Roy do that?

Cause it's the right thing to do! So Roy doesn't alienate himself from fans when everyone knows including himself he isn't worth any more then that.

cinotimz
07-09-2012, 12:25 PM
....why would Roy do that?

Because Duncan has? Because Lebron has? Wade? Bosh? and a handful of others recently? just a thought....u know...to help give the team more flexibility to put together a better roster to compete?

OlBlu
07-09-2012, 12:26 PM
Cause it's the right thing to do! So Roy doesn't alienate himself from fans when everyone knows including himself he isn't worth any more then that.

The market says he is worth more than that. I do not believe that Portland is the only team to offer that deal to Roy. He just accepted that one. So, you either match and pay the market price or you let him go. See how that alienates the fans. :cool:

Kstat
07-09-2012, 12:27 PM
Cause it's the right thing to do!


you're missing the green font.

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 12:39 PM
Roy is the one that will have to deal with it. I really don't think he will take it well when his performance doesn't justify his contract and the fans start booing him off the floor cause he isn't worth the contract. Just ask Lewis, Arenas, Murphy, McGrady and others how it weighed so heavy on them. Heck, Big Roy couldn't deal with Job let alone hearing it from the fans.

Greed doesn't always payoff!

OlBlu
07-09-2012, 12:42 PM
Roy is the one that will have to deal with it. I really don't think he will take it well when his performance doesn't justify his contract and the fans start booing him off the floor cause he isn't worth the contract. Just ask Lewis, Arenas, Murphy, McGrady and others how it weighed so heavy on them. Heck, Big Roy couldn't deal with Job let alone hearing it from the fans.

Greed doesn't always payoff!

If his performance isn't good enough, he will hear the boos from the fans if he was only making one dollar per year.... This is foolish thinking......:cool:

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 12:49 PM
The market says he is worth more than that. I do not believe that Portland is the only team to offer that deal to Roy. He just accepted that one. So, you either match and pay the market price or you let him go. See how that alienates the fans. :cool:

First, Roy has no agreement with anyone or it would be publicized.
Second, the market is what they make it. Dosen't always mean they are right, that's how bad contracts happen.
Third, Hibbert isn't that much better then Hawes and he signed 2yrs for under 14mil.
Forth, If the Pacers do their job they can do better with that 14.5 mil then to give it to Hibbert. That wouldn't alienate anybody except Roy in Portland.

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 12:52 PM
If his performance isn't good enough, he will hear the boos from the fans if he was only making one dollar per year.... This is foolish thinking......:cool:

Nope, Players are always measured up by performance vs contract, not sure where you've been!

Kstat
07-09-2012, 12:53 PM
Roy is the one that will have to deal with it. I really don't think he will take it well when his performance doesn't justify his contract and the fans start booing him off the floor cause he isn't worth the contract. Just ask Lewis, Arenas, Murphy, McGrady and others how it weighed so heavy on them. Heck, Big Roy couldn't deal with Job let alone hearing it from the fans.


...do you think any of them would take less money if they had it to do over again?

Keep in mind, we live in the real world.

I'll deal with being booed for 2 hours a night if I'm making $14 million a year.

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 12:54 PM
...do you think any of them would take less money if they had it to do over again?

Keep in mind, we live in the real world.

No doubt about it in the real world!

Kstat
07-09-2012, 12:56 PM
No doubt about it in the real world!

No. Not one of them would take a penny less. They earned that money. Regardless of how they played after the fact, they have zero regrets about taking contracts that they spent their entire lives setting themselves up for.

Find me one quote, from any NBA player that says they wish they hadn't taken as much money. You can't.

You can howl at the moon all you want, but everyone here, including you, would take that $58 million and never regret it.

This is real life. This is Roy's life's profession. He's entitled to every penny he's worked so hard for in his life. It's offensive to me that anybody would presume to tell someone else how much money they should be making in my country.

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 12:58 PM
No. Not one of them would take a penny less. They earned that money. Regardless of how they played after the fact, they have zero regrets about taking contracts that they spent their entire lives setting themselves up for.

Find me one quote, from any NBA player that says they wish they hadn't taken as much money. You can't.

You are looking at it in a black and white thinking, minds are much more complex then that.

Kstat
07-09-2012, 01:00 PM
You are looking at it in a black and white thinking, minds are much more complex then that.

Oh, I have no doubt players have been affected by the expectations of a massive contract.

Your mistake is in thinking they wish they regret taking the money.

If Roy flames out in Portland, at the end of the day he still made a cool $58 million. His family is set for life. What a bunch of media people and fans that he doesn't even know say to him is insignificant compared to that.

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 01:02 PM
No. Not one of them would take a penny less. They earned that money. Regardless of how they played after the fact, they have zero regrets about taking contracts that they spent their entire lives setting themselves up for.

Find me one quote, from any NBA player that says they wish they hadn't taken as much money. You can't.

You can howl at the moon all you want, but everyone here, including you, would take that $58 million and never regret it.

That isn't something that would be publicized. That would never make it in the news until somebody had enough balls to do it. I can assure you tho, that it is an issue for many players.

I, personally would not take it, I wouldn't want the burden.

Kstat
07-09-2012, 01:04 PM
I, personally would not take it, I wouldn't want the burden.

...so you'd turn down the $14 million, but you'd take the "burden-free" $11.5 million, which is what you think Roy is worth.

...do you see how ridiculous this is?

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 01:10 PM
...so you'd turn down the $14 million, but you'd take the "burden-free" $11.5 million, which is what you think Roy is worth.

...do you see how ridiculous this is?

Of course, it is showing his willingness to make the team better. Can't fault him for that...he can walk away feeling good that he put his financial support into the team. Why else do you see players doing it all the time. We, as people scrutinize more more all the time. With technology has helped this. Players are being scrutinized for every step they take. It's not politically correct news anymore, it's everybody's news!

Kstat
07-09-2012, 01:12 PM
It isn't Roy Hibbert's job to be a pacer fan. He isn't obligated to save them money.

You're looking at it from the viewpoint of a pacer fan when you should be looking at it from Roy's perspective.

The guys that take less money to accommodate other guys are older players that have already had their big paydays. Roy hasn't gotten his yet.

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 01:15 PM
It isn't Roy Hibbert's job to be a pacer fan. He isn't obligated to save them money.

I'm not saying he is obligated, but it may very well payoff for him to do what is best as many others have done. He can do what he wants, I love Roy and I want what is best for him. I just don't want him nor I deal with his contract crippling the franchise.

Kstat
07-09-2012, 01:17 PM
...then you let him go. That's all there is to it.

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 01:17 PM
It isn't Roy Hibbert's job to be a pacer fan. He isn't obligated to save them money.

You're looking at it from the viewpoint of a pacer fan when you should be looking at it from Roy's perspective.

The guys that take less money to accommodate other guys are older players that have already had their big paydays. Roy hasn't gotten his yet.

That bold sentence is not quite accurate.

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 01:17 PM
I do not for one second believe the Pacers are 50-50 on whether to match the Blazers offer sheet. They will match the offer sheet, I'd be shocked if they didn't

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 01:19 PM
Nice conversation KStat, I have to get back to work.

rexnom
07-09-2012, 01:21 PM
Folks--just a PSA: if you hear nothing on July 11th about us matching, don't panic. We might wait until the last possible moment before showing our hand.

PacerPenguins
07-09-2012, 01:22 PM
John Canzano ‏@JohnCanzanoBFT
Free agent C Roy Hibbert is in Portland today, per #Blazers source. He's taking physicals and doing medical.

:rolleyes:

vnzla81
07-09-2012, 01:24 PM
I do not for one second believe the Pacers are 50-50 on whether to match the Blazers offer sheet. They will match the offer sheet, I'd be shocked if they didn't

Yeah I feel the same way, I think we are matching.

Kstat
07-09-2012, 01:24 PM
....has anyone else wondered if the Pacers' reluctance to be public about matching Roy's offer has hurt them in the free agent market?

I can see free agents being apprehensive about joining a team that might let it all-star center walk away.

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 01:28 PM
John Canzano ‏@JohnCanzanoBFT
Free agent C Roy Hibbert is in Portland today, per #Blazers source. He's taking physicals and doing medical.

:rolleyes:


yes, this is normal. You don't expect the Blazers to sign him to the offer sheet unless they are sure he is OK physically. I mean if the pacers don't match the Blazers are stuck with him and have to pay him for 4 years so they need to be sure he is OK. Plus look at the Blazers recent past on injuries. The last thing they want to do is sign an injured player.

So don't read anything into this.

2minutes twoa
07-09-2012, 01:29 PM
@MikeWellsNBA: Restricted free agent Roy Hibbert is already in Portland where he'll sign his offer sheet (4 yrs $58 mill) w them at 9 pm PST tomorrow.

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 01:29 PM
....has anyone else wondered if the Pacers' reluctance to be public about matching Roy's offer has hurt them in the free agent market?

I can see free agents being apprehensive about joining a team that might let it all-star center walk away.
That's one thing I worry about and I do think the uncertainty could be hurting the Pacers. Roy Hibbert starting at center is much more attractive than Chris Kaman starting at center.

I also think letting Roy walk also means that David West probably bolts at then end of next season.

Of course it's entirely possible that no one wants to sign with the Pacers, with or without Hibbert.

BillS
07-09-2012, 01:30 PM
....has anyone else wondered if the Pacers' reluctance to be public about matching Roy's offer has hurt them in the free agent market?

I can see free agents being apprehensive about joining a team that might let it all-star center walk away.

As opposed to being a team that has money available for new Free Agents?

Really, is there ANY action the Pacers could take that wouldn't be spun as hurting us in the FA market? After all, given the alternative scenario, would we be saying:

"Has anyone else wondered if the Pacers being so quick to pay Roy has hurt them in the Free Agent market? I can see free agents being apprehensive about joining a team they think has no money left to add the right pieces."

Kstat
07-09-2012, 01:31 PM
"Has anyone else wondered if the Pacers being so quick to pay Roy has hurt them in the Free Agent market? I can see free agents being apprehensive about joining a team they think has no money left to add the right pieces."
That's absurd. Free agents don't care about future acquisitions, they care about who's already on the team.

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 01:34 PM
As opposed to being a team that has money available for new Free Agents?

Really, is there ANY action the Pacers could take that wouldn't be spun as hurting us in the FA market? After all, given the alternative scenario, would we be saying:

"Has anyone else wondered if the Pacers being so quick to pay Roy has hurt them in the Free Agent market? I can see free agents being apprehensive about joining a team they think has no money left to add the right pieces."
But if the Pacers came out and said they were matching Portland's offer, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't have any money left. The Pacers have plenty of capspace until July 14 to sign any other free agents. They can wait to sign George Hill to his new deal.

Right now, free agents don't know for certain who the starting center for the Pacers will be next season.

BillS
07-09-2012, 01:36 PM
That's absurd. Free agents don't care about future acquisitions, they care about who's already on the team.

And their ability to get the most money possible from that team.

It seems to me like FAs who are concerned about both money AND success aren't going to be the ones signing a short-term contract with a team still building and then figuring they'll get a payday from a different team later. The Pacers aren't a team with a "win now" position locked up, where a new FA figures his goal of getting a win will be complete before his next contract comes up. An FA coming to Indiana who is concerned about who is on the team NOW vs. how much money an extended successful run can get him probably isn't coming to Indiana even WITH a guaranteed Roy Hibbert.

Lance George
07-09-2012, 01:49 PM
....has anyone else wondered if the Pacers' reluctance to be public about matching Roy's offer has hurt them in the free agent market?

I can see free agents being apprehensive about joining a team that might let it all-star center walk away.

I'll match your grasping at straws and say that free agents seeing the Pacers possibly letting their third-leading scorer walk may intrigue them, as it opens up more scoring opportunities for them. An O.J. Mayo-like talent could very reasonably become a bigger part of the offense without Hibbert being here.

Kstat
07-09-2012, 01:50 PM
What straws am I grasping for, exactly?

Other than Chris kaman, it wouldn't intrigue any free agent I can think of.

I don't know of any NBA players that don't like playing with all star centers. They kind of make things easier for everyone else.

vnzla81
07-09-2012, 01:50 PM
....has anyone else wondered if the Pacers' reluctance to be public about matching Roy's offer has hurt them in the free agent market?

I can see free agents being apprehensive about joining a team that might let it all-star center walk away.

Yep I was thinking the same thing when Nash turned us down.

ksuttonjr76
07-09-2012, 02:15 PM
@MikeWellsNBA: Restricted free agent Roy Hibbert is already in Portland where he'll sign his offer sheet (4 yrs $58 mill) w them at 9 pm PST tomorrow.

Wow...he's not even going to stall them, so we complete our free agent signings? I guess he really is chasing the money....

Kstat
07-09-2012, 02:18 PM
Wow...he's not even going to stall them, so we complete our free agent signings?

:picard:

tora tora
07-09-2012, 02:21 PM
We can't win in the free agent market -with- Roy so what difference does it make? :shrug:

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 02:21 PM
Wow...he's not even going to stall them, so we complete our free agent signings? I guess he really is chasing the money....
Roy Hibbert signing his offer sheet immediately on July 11 should be a surprise to no one.

The Pacers have had PLENTY of time to go out and sign free agents. The Pacers either want to keep Roy Hibbert or they don't. What day Roy Hibbert signs his offer sheet won't change that. Hibbert figures if he's going to Portland, it might as well have Batum on his team.

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 02:24 PM
Wow...he's not even going to stall them, so we complete our free agent signings? I guess he really is chasing the money....

So you want him to wait? Why would he do this. Put yourself in Roy's shoes. You have a chance to guarantee 57 million dollars - why in the world would you wait. Why would he take that chance? What if something tragic happens to Roy while he is waiting around to sign

ksuttonjr76
07-09-2012, 02:27 PM
Roy Hibbert signing his offer sheet immediately on July 11 should be a surprise to no one.

The Pacers have had PLENTY of time to go out and sign free agents. The Pacers either want to keep Roy Hibbert or they don't. What day Roy Hibbert signs his offer sheet won't change that. Hibbert figures if he's going to Portland, it might as well have Batum on his team.

It's a surprise to me, because it REALLY indicates to me that he has no desire to resign with Indiana unless it's for the max offer. This move puts a lot pressure on Indiana to "close the deal" on the free agents within 72 hours. Let's keep it real, if I KNEW that Indiana was going to match offer, then I would just wait on signing the offer sheet with Portland.

ksuttonjr76
07-09-2012, 02:29 PM
So you want him to wait? Why would he do this. Put yourself in Roy's shoes. You have a chance to guarantee 57 million dollars - why in the world would you wait. Why would he take that chance? What if something tragic happens to Roy while he is waiting around to sign

Something tragic could happen to him as he's walking to the office to sign his contract.....

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 02:30 PM
It's a surprise to me, because it REALLY indicates to me that he has no desire to resign with Indiana unless it's for the max offer. This move puts a lot pressure on Indiana to "close the deal" on the free agents within 72 hours. Let's keep it real, if I KNEW that Indiana was going to match offer, then I would just wait on signing the offer sheet with Portland.

that would not be a very smart move for the financial security of your family if you waited to sign. Unless you were convinced you were going to get a better offer

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 02:30 PM
It's a surprise to me, because it REALLY indicates to me that he has no desire to resign with Indiana unless it's for the max offer. This move puts a lot pressure on Indiana to "close the deal" on the free agents within 72 hours. Let's keep it real, if I KNEW that Indiana was going to match offer, then I would just wait on signing the offer sheet with Portland.
But Portland's not going to be fine with that. "Yeah, Roy, take your time signing the offer sheet." Portland's not going to let Roy and the Pacers play games with them. They're trying to win too. They've got Batum signing an offer sheet with Minnesota that they've gotta worry about matching too. If Roy Hibbert doesn't sign immediately on July 11, Portland's moving on and Roy missed his chance at a max offer sheet from a team he might have wanted to play for.

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 02:34 PM
Wells: The Pacers are matching Portland's 4-year, $58 million offer to Roy Hibbert, according to a source

Hallelujah!

PacerPenguins
07-09-2012, 02:34 PM
WOHOOOO!!!!! WB BIG ROY!!!!!

ksuttonjr76
07-09-2012, 02:36 PM
As a I side note, I UNDERSTAND that this is business, but what DISGUSTS me is his posturing after the season was over like he was "loyal" to Indiana. He was hanging out with Area 55 members....TV apperances...his comments about how he looks forward to the next season...etc...etc....etc. After this move to sign his offer sheet the moment 12 AM EST hits, I've changed my mind to "***** him...don't resign him.".

I rather take our chances with Chris Kaman starting with us.

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 02:37 PM
Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
The Pacers are matching Portland's 4-year, $58 million offer to Roy Hibbert, according to a source

ksuttonjr76
07-09-2012, 02:37 PM
that would not be a very smart move for the financial security of your family if you waited to sign. Unless you were convinced you were going to get a better offer

What is this "family" that everyone keeps talking about?

2minutes twoa
07-09-2012, 02:37 PM
@MikeWellsNBA: The Pacers are matching Portland's 4-year, $58 million offer to Roy Hibbert, according to a source

ksuttonjr76
07-09-2012, 02:40 PM
Never mind...we're matching....my emotions are splitted on this decision now.

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 02:50 PM
What is this "family" that everyone keeps talking about?


So he doesn't have a mother, father, brother, sister, aunts, uncles, nices and nephews, fiuture wife and kids?

BillS
07-09-2012, 05:04 PM
As a I side note, I UNDERSTAND that this is business, but what DISGUSTS me is his posturing after the season was over like he was "loyal" to Indiana. He was hanging out with Area 55 members....TV apperances...his comments about how he looks forward to the next season...etc...etc....etc. After this move to sign his offer sheet the moment 12 AM EST hits, I've changed my mind to "***** him...don't resign him.".

I rather take our chances with Chris Kaman starting with us.

:chillpill

People REALLY need to stop taking things so personally. Roy is no fool, and only a fool fails to explore options. Signing the offer sheet immediately does NOT affect the Pacers in any substantial way (I doubt if there are FAs out there refusing to sign with anyone until the 15th). All it does is makes sure Roy has that money in the promised situation.

Given the newer info about the counteroffer might mean the offer sheet isn't signed at all, this is all about a guy doing business but not contradicting anything at all about where he WANTS to be.