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View Full Version : Pacers plan was always to bring in second rate talent



doctor-h
07-04-2012, 11:07 AM
Pacers are sticking to their game plan. It was always watch the market play out and pick up the scraps and then claiming we are building the deepest team in the league. We saw how well that deep bench we had played in the playoffs. They were more than ineffective. Get used to mediocrity Indiana, that is all it will ever be here. Get in line to buy tickets to watch how high Miles Plumlee can jump. My guess is he will look good in the warm up line and that is about it. That is about all he did in college, I am sure it will change when he plays against the greatest athletes in the world. Take a look around FO, the east is getting better and if we want to compete we have to do the same. You can't do that until you improve the talent level on this team. It looks to me like the NBA is getting what it wants. Super teams in super markets and the rest of the league just an afterthought. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for Westbrook or Durant to end up out of OKC.

littlerichard54
07-04-2012, 11:23 AM
Pacers are sticking to their game plan. It was always watch the market play out and pick up the scraps and then claiming we are building the deepest team in the league. We saw how well that deep bench we had played in the playoffs. They were more than ineffective. Get used to mediocrity Indiana, that is all it will ever be here. Get in line to buy tickets to watch how high Miles Plumlee can jump. My guess is he will look good in the warm up line and that is about it. That is about all he did in college, I am sure it will change when he plays against the greatest athletes in the world. Take a look around FO, the east is getting better and if we want to compete we have to do the same. You can't do that until you improve the talent level on this team. It looks to me like the NBA is getting what it wants. Super teams in super markets and the rest of the league just an afterthought. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for Westbrook or Durant to end up out of OKC.


Yeah, I am actually hoping in light of everything we just forfeit the season and don't even bother playing. The sky is probably going to fall anyway. God forbid a team be fiscally responsible and perform due diligence. I mean, it isn't like they have a week and a half before anyone can actually sign a FA contract. Besides, it's not like these are fully guaranteed contracts that can put a team in cap hell for years to come.

mildlysane
07-04-2012, 11:26 AM
Yeah, I am actually hoping in light of everything we just forfeit the season and don't even bother playing. The sky is probably going to fall anyway. God forbid a team be fiscally responsible and perform due diligence. I mean, it isn't like they have a week and a half before anyone can actually sign a FA contract. Besides, it's not like these are fully guaranteed contracts that can put a team in cap hell for years to come.
We should forgo all contracts and just ask for volunteers to man our team....:cool: :laugh:

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 11:29 AM
Pacers are sticking to their game plan. It was always watch the market play out and pick up the scraps and then claiming we are building the deepest team in the league. We saw how well that deep bench we had played in the playoffs. They were more than ineffective. Get used to mediocrity Indiana, that is all it will ever be here. Get in line to buy tickets to watch how high Miles Plumlee can jump. My guess is he will look good in the warm up line and that is about it. That is about all he did in college, I am sure it will change when he plays against the greatest athletes in the world. Take a look around FO, the east is getting better and if we want to compete we have to do the same. You can't do that until you improve the talent level on this team. It looks to me like the NBA is getting what it wants. Super teams in super markets and the rest of the league just an afterthought. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for Westbrook or Durant to end up out of OKC.

This has always been the way of the NBA. OKC is an exception but they can't keep all of the players they have together. Someone has to go. The small market teams are like a minor league for the big market teams. It has always been that way. In their entire history, the Pacers made one run to the finals because they had a superstar but the other team had two of them and they lost and they haven't come close to going back while that other team let an aging superstar go and rebuilt around a couple of more and won another title.......:cool:

3rdStrike
07-04-2012, 11:30 AM
The sky is not falling. If the worst case scenario plays out (same roster but we lose Hibbert and overpay for a mediocre player like Mayo), you may have an argument. But right now? Free agency just started, and there's always the trade market.

littlerichard54
07-04-2012, 11:33 AM
The sky is not falling. If the worst case scenario plays out (same roster but we lose Hibbert and overpay for a mediocre player like Mayo), you may have an argument. But right now? Free agency just started, and there's always the trade market.

I hope the sarcasm was detected in my response.

aamcguy
07-04-2012, 11:34 AM
It's true, the only way to be happy with a season is if your team wins a championship. We have a very good team as is, and going out and signing somebody like Nash means that in another year or two you will be losing at least one of David West, Paul George, or Danny Granger for sure. None of whom is currently almost 40 years old.

Were it not for Wade and LeBron simultaneously playing their best stretches of playoff basketball ever, we would have been in at least the conference finals.

HC
07-04-2012, 11:35 AM
Do the Pacers need to upgrade talent?....yes.. Is this thread an extreme overreaction?...yes..

matthewfcurrie
07-04-2012, 11:38 AM
Is seriously looking at Mayo, Kaman, Roy & Nash second rate talent? Sure, there is no superstar there, but they would start on most teams in the league. Asik wasn't worth viewing, but he seems to be a Rocket now anyway. I'd be happy to have any of those 4 players on the pacers list for the right price, no more than the mid level, except for Nash

3rdStrike
07-04-2012, 11:41 AM
The small market teams are like a minor league for the big market teams. It has always been that way.

The Bulls drafted Jordan and Pippen and built around them. Last year the Mavs won with their guy Nowitzki, a then undervalued center on his third team (Chandler) and role players. The Spurs won with Duncan and Robinson and Parker, all drafted by them. These teams weren't buying the biggest free agent year after year, so I don't know what you're talking about. The Pacers problem is not that they can't lure big free agents, the problem is that they drafted one fringe star (Granger) and decided to build around him instead of going after more star talent in the draft. Maybe Paul George develops into the guy that changes everything, maybe not. But many teams win championships besides the Heat/Celtics/Lakers, so there are more ways than just flashy spending.


And OKC will be absolutely fine without Ibaka.


I hope the sarcasm was detected in my response.

Yeah, I was responding to the OP.

J7F
07-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Pacers are sticking to their game plan. It was always watch the market play out and pick up the scraps and then claiming we are building the deepest team in the league. We saw how well that deep bench we had played in the playoffs. They were more than ineffective. Get used to mediocrity Indiana, that is all it will ever be here. Get in line to buy tickets to watch how high Miles Plumlee can jump. My guess is he will look good in the warm up line and that is about it. That is about all he did in college, I am sure it will change when he plays against the greatest athletes in the world. Take a look around FO, the east is getting better and if we want to compete we have to do the same. You can't do that until you improve the talent level on this team. It looks to me like the NBA is getting what it wants. Super teams in super markets and the rest of the league just an afterthought. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for Westbrook or Durant to end up out of OKC.

You are by a large margin the most depressing poster on PD...

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 11:48 AM
The Bulls drafted Jordan and Pippen and built around them. Last year the Mavs won with their guy Nowitzki, a then undervalued center on his third team (Chandler) and role players. The Spurs won with Duncan and Robinson and Parker, all drafted by them. These teams weren't buying the biggest free agent year after year, so I don't know what you're talking about. The Pacers problem is not that they can't lure big free agents, the problem is that they drafted one fringe star (Granger) and decided to build around him instead of going after more star talent in the draft. Maybe Paul George develops into the guy that changes everything, maybe not. But many teams win championships besides the Heat/Celtics/Lakers, so there are more ways than just flashy spending.


And OKC will be absolutely fine without Ibaka.



Yeah, I was responding to the OP.

San Antonio had David Robinson out for the season and they got the rights to Duncan. That was blind luck. Those other players on Dallas were not bad. Terry is great and just signed with Boston. They had pounded on the title door before without Chandler so it wasn't a group of stiffs. If the Pacers had drafted a superstar he would have played out his option and been gone for nothing just like Howard. Indiana will not get or keep superstars. Reggie was the exception to that rule and there are people who thought he was a star, not a super star. I liked Reggie a lot but he didn't appear in too many all star games or make many if any NBA first or second teams....... Location is the problem. OKC is the only small market team doing anything and I don't think that will last.... Losing Ibaka will not make them a better team it will move them down a little bit.....:cool:

littlerichard54
07-04-2012, 11:51 AM
It's true, the only way to be happy with a season is if your team wins a championship. We have a very good team as is, and going out and signing somebody like Nash means that in another year or two you will be losing at least one of David West, Paul George, or Danny Granger for sure. None of whom is currently almost 40 years old.

Were it not for Wade and LeBron simultaneously playing their best stretches of playoff basketball ever, we would have been in at least the conference finals.

Please note the pessimistic nature of this thread. Please do not point out positives.....it really screws up the Feng Shui.

adamscb
07-04-2012, 11:53 AM
how many more doctor-h posts will i have to put up with this summer?

PacerPenguins
07-04-2012, 11:54 AM
people freaking out bc we didn't sign a guy in free agency who is hurt all the time and wants a max contract, and while having new orleans still match.

BlueNGold
07-04-2012, 11:55 AM
How many trolls can you fit in one thread?

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 11:56 AM
It's true, the only way to be happy with a season is if your team wins a championship. We have a very good team as is, and going out and signing somebody like Nash means that in another year or two you will be losing at least one of David West, Paul George, or Danny Granger for sure. None of whom is currently almost 40 years old.

Were it not for Wade and LeBron simultaneously playing their best stretches of playoff basketball ever, we would have been in at least the conference finals.

If it were not for Howard being injured, Orlando might have swept the Pacers... If, if and if. You got Miami without Bosh and the Pacers could do nothing with them after they adjusted. As is stands now, the Pacers might be the fifth best team in the East and I'm not convinced that they are ahead of Philly. That doesn't mean that they won't get better but there is a limit to what a small market team can do since no superstars will come to Indy to play or at least none ever have...... I don't count Reggie, we drafted him and we kept him. Perhaps he is the only star we have had since the ABA days....:cool:

3rdStrike
07-04-2012, 11:58 AM
It takes blind luck sometimes. It also takes big gambles. Jermaine O'Neal turned into a superstar and he stayed in Indy.

2minutes twoa
07-04-2012, 12:04 PM
When it comes to the NBA, Kevin Pritchard and Donnie Walsh are smarter than us. They are more experienced than us. They see the big picture clearer than we do. Our job is to cheer for the team on the floor. Are we allowed to complain and give our strong opinions? Absolutely! But saying that the front office is inept and doesn't care about winning a championship is ridiculous! Go Pacers!!!

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 12:06 PM
It takes blind luck sometimes. It also takes big gambles. Jermaine O'Neal turned into a superstar and he stayed in Indy.

Jermaine was a very good player and he was a star. He was never a superstar..... and I was a big fan of his. That was a great trade to get him......:cool:

CompACE
07-04-2012, 12:09 PM
Your optimism and rosy personality sure are swell...

mrknowname
07-04-2012, 12:12 PM
remember jeff foster retired which really hurt our depth at center. we were forced to play an undersized admunson. miami beat us because are backup big men couldn't rebound and weren't a threat to protect the rim.

i think if jeff foster was healthy we could have won that series

5_7_Clash
07-04-2012, 12:13 PM
We should forgo all contracts and just ask for volunteers to man our team....:cool: :laugh:

http://paulcrump3.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/step-brothers.gif?w=1024

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 12:15 PM
remember jeff foster retired which really hurt our depth at center. we were forced to play an undersized admunson. miami beat us because are backup big men couldn't rebound and weren't a threat to protect the rim.

i think if jeff foster was healthy we could have won that series

That is absurd. Miami was small in the middle. We lost because James did whatever he wanted to do whenever he wanted to do it. We couldn't do anything with Wade either. Let those two score 70+ in games and you have no chance to win. James and company got after Granger and he wasn't much of a factor. The way homers overevaluate their own talent and make excuses is amazing to see. If Howard is healthy, Indiana never gets to play Miami.......:cool:

mrknowname
07-04-2012, 12:18 PM
That is absurd. Miami was small in the middle. We lost because James did whatever he wanted to do whenever he wanted to do it. We couldn't do anything with Wade either. Let those two score 70+ in games and you have no chance to win. James and company got after Granger and he wasn't much of a factor. The way homers overevaluate their own talent and make excuses is amazing to see. If Howard is healthy, Indiana never gets to play Miami.......:cool:

maybe my memory was fuzzy, but i thought when roy was out of the game wade and james seemed to have no fear attacking the rim, whereas when roy was in the game they were a little more hesitant.

also iirc, the heat got a lot of second chance points because hansbrough and admunson couldn't rebound worth a lick

Jeremy
07-04-2012, 12:18 PM
Simon will always choose being polite to other owners rather than going hard to get RFA's so we will never get anyone good unless we draft them. And even then, they will not want to play here after they become a star.

Ozwalt72
07-04-2012, 12:21 PM
That is absurd. Miami was small in the middle. We lost because James did whatever he wanted to do whenever he wanted to do it. We couldn't do anything with Wade either.

Of course James did that to everybody this year.

Ramitt
07-04-2012, 12:26 PM
Simon will always choose being polite to other owners rather than going hard to get RFA's so we will never get anyone good unless we draft them. And even then, they will not want to play here after they become a star.
I know! it sucked when Reggie left and JO wouldn't sign. Oh wait that never happened.

Gamble1
07-04-2012, 12:35 PM
When it comes to the NBA, Kevin Pritchard and Donnie Walsh are smarter than us. They are more experienced than us. They see the big picture clearer than we do. Our job is to cheer for the team on the floor. Are we allowed to complain and give our strong opinions? Absolutely! But saying that the front office is inept and doesn't care about winning a championship is ridiculous! Go Pacers!!!
I agree in part but both have glaring HUGE mistakes under their belt. Donnie chose the Knicks of all places and how did that work out for HIS future.

Under Donnie the Pacers have made the finals once. IF the measure of success is playoff appearances then Donnie is great but if its to win a Finals he is inept.

mildlysane
07-04-2012, 12:45 PM
Hey guys, look at the bright side. At least our owner will now be able to afford to buy his family a few gifts for Christmas this year with all the money saved from not over-spending in free agency...

Sandman21
07-04-2012, 01:18 PM
Ah, delusional PD.

I love Free Agency.

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 01:45 PM
Ah, delusional PD.

I love Free Agency.

Then you will have to support a team that actually takes part in it.

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 01:50 PM
remember jeff foster retired which really hurt our depth at center. we were forced to play an undersized admunson. miami beat us because are backup big men couldn't rebound and weren't a threat to protect the rim.

i think if jeff foster was healthy we could have won that series

This is your typical Pacer fan response. We lost because we didn't have a our back up center who would have played maybe 13 minutes a game and has not been effective in 3 years because of injury.

mrknowname
07-04-2012, 01:52 PM
This is your typical Pacer fan response. We lost because we didn't have a our back up center who would have played maybe 13 minutes a game and has not been effective in 3 years because of injury.

...if jeff foster was healthy

Sandman21
07-04-2012, 01:54 PM
Then you will have to support a team that actually takes part in it.

Why should I? Everyone is getting their knickers in a knot because nothing is happening on the Pacers front when NOBODY can even sign a contract for another week!

Everyone is panicking for no reason!

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 01:59 PM
people freaking out bc we didn't sign a guy in free agency who is hurt all the time and wants a max contract, and while having new orleans still match.

I am not freaking out because we did't sign Gordon. That was never said. Please stop putting words in someone's mouth. I do not agree with the safe approach the Pacers always seem to take. They need something to create a buzz. I don't believe they can get that by drafting Plumlee when they pass on a top talent. I don't think they can do that by not being aggressive in free agency. I do not believe Hibbert or Hill will ever lead us to a championship. They are both role players. Good ones that can help. People on here will say we could have beaten Miami if some things had happened and we should be excited about our playoff run. They had to practically give tickets away to fill the arena for a series against the best player on the planet and the eventual champions. You can brush this off all you want but these are the facts. The national media didn't even know we existed until we played Miami, that is because we are boring and don't appeal to a TV audience.

daschysta
07-04-2012, 02:01 PM
Wtf? When have any of our own free agent ever bolted because they want to "leave" or any players we've drafted for that matter because it is Indy? The ignorance and paranoia are getting nauseating here.

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 02:05 PM
Why should I? Everyone is getting their knickers in a knot because nothing is happening on the Pacers front when NOBODY can even sign a contract for another week!

Everyone is panicking for no reason!
But deals can be struck and agreements can be made. A lot of these deals have been made. The draft was very disappointing and turned off a lot of the fans. You just can't understand a pick like that. They won't gamble on trades or free agency but they will on a draft pick because they don't have to pay anything.

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 02:07 PM
...if jeff foster was healthy

Jeff Foster was done years ago. Give it up.

BrownBearCoffee
07-04-2012, 02:09 PM
I'm not going to be critical of the front office until the 14th. If the 14th comes and goes, and our roster is the same as last year minus Hibbert, then I will become a darksider. I think many of you will be pleasantly surprised by the look of our roster come opening night, however.

5_7_Clash
07-04-2012, 02:10 PM
I am not freaking out because we did't sign Gordon. That was never said. Please stop putting words in someone's mouth. I do not agree with the safe approach the Pacers always seem to take. They need something to create a buzz. I don't believe they can get that by drafting Plumlee when they pass on a top talent. I don't think they can do that by not being aggressive in free agency. I do not believe Hibbert or Hill will ever lead us to a championship. They are both role players. Good ones that can help. People on here will say we could have beaten Miami if some things had happened and we should be excited about our playoff run. They had to practically give tickets away to fill the arena for a series against the best player on the planet and the eventual champions. You can brush this off all you want but these are the facts. The national media didn't even know we existed until we played Miami, that is because we are boring and don't appeal to a TV audience. This is, of course, just my opinion.

Fixed.

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 02:11 PM
How many trolls can you fit in one thread?

Why is it when people disagree with you, you resort to calling them names. What is a troll anyway. The one thing I have learned reading the digest is never put any stock in posters who use the word troll or call a player a chucker. Anyone who calls a player a chucker has never played a serious sport in their life.

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 02:12 PM
Fixed.

If you can't come up with an intelligent response spare me.

5_7_Clash
07-04-2012, 02:13 PM
If you can't come up with an intelligent response spare me.

I thought that was fairly intelligent. I made your post make more sense.

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 02:16 PM
You are by a large margin the most depressing poster on PD...

Does that mean I am a champion. If so that is one more than the Pacers will ever get.

BringJackBack
07-04-2012, 02:19 PM
Always feel a little bit more secure after a doctor-h crazy talk thread... Would like to see what he says when something bad actually happens.

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 02:24 PM
Always feel a little bit more secure after a doctor-h crazy talk thread... Would like to see what he says when something bad actually happens.

Can't get much worse than Plumlee can we? Just curious, what Jack do you want to bring back?

mrknowname
07-04-2012, 03:47 PM
Jeff Foster was done years ago. Give it up.

maybe i wasn't clear. i was trying to imply that we could have used someone like jeff foster. a bigman who had size and could play defense and rebound

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 03:51 PM
maybe i wasn't clear. i was trying to imply that we could have used someone like jeff foster. a bigman who had size and could play defense and rebound

We have that now, his name is Plumlee......:cool:

Reginald
07-04-2012, 04:03 PM
What the heck does "more than ineffective" mean? I'm guessing it doesn't mean winning a playoff series and being two quarters away from being up 3-1 on the future world champions.

Would I like to see the Pacers do more in the offseason? Yes. But can we dispense with the rhetorical laziness?

RLeWorm
07-04-2012, 04:12 PM
if this was their plan then its a pretty stupid plan.

MnvrChvy
07-04-2012, 04:25 PM
If Howard is healthy, Indiana never gets to play Miami.......:cool:

This is not any more true now than it was the first 500 times you posted it.

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 04:29 PM
This is not any more true now than it was the first 500 times you posted it.

It is very true.... Add Howard and the Pacers might get swept......:cool:

Hicks
07-04-2012, 04:30 PM
It is very true.... Add Howard and the Pacers might get swept......:cool:

Your opinion != established fact. It's debatable and disagreeable.

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 04:38 PM
Your opinion != established fact. It's debatable and disagreeable.

It certainly is my opinion and it is shared by many experts who have quoted on it. I don't think there is any way that the Pacers beat Orlando with a healthy Howard. They played us pretty tough without him...... As for being disagreeable, well, I don't give a rat's behind about that. There are a number of people here who really believe the Pacers had a shot at getting to the east finals. I watched the damn games. Do you think we could have beaten Philadelphia in the playoffs? I am of the OPINION that we could not have....... There are a lot of trades to be made and more to be done but as of today, I think the Pacers are at best the seventh or eighth team in the east. I put Miami, Boston, Chicago, both NY teams and Philly ahead of them. :cool:

rabid
07-04-2012, 04:46 PM
If Howard is healthy, Indiana never gets to play Miami...:cool:

OlBlu, I've got you on ignore but I keep seeing the above quoted by people who still talk to you.

You seem to keep making variations on the argument that we would not have beaten Orlando with a healthy Dwight Howard.

Here's a newsflash. If Howard is healthy, Orlando does not drop to the 6th seed, and we don't play them at all. We would instead play some other 6th seed team (or perhaps drop from the 3rd seed ourselves and play the 4th or 5th seed). We would have played Atlanta in all likelihood. So I have no idea why you're making this point over and over again (enough that I've seen it at least 3 times even though you're on my ignore list!).

I mean really, it takes a pretty relentlessly negative person to use a hypothetical that never happened (us losing to a healthy Orlando team) as a way to continuously bash the team.

I don't need/care to read your response, but this required a correction, kthxbye... :cool:

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 04:58 PM
OlBlu, I've got you on ignore (which is AWESOME in case you're wondering) but I keep seeing the above quoted by people who still talk to you.

But you keep making variations on the argument that we would not have beaten Orlando with a healthy Dwight Howard.

Here's a newsflash. If Howard is healthy, Orlando does not drop to the 6th seed, and we don't play them at all. We would instead play some other 6th seed team (or perhaps drop from the 3rd seed ourselves and play the 4th or 5th seed). We would have played Atlanta in all likelihood. So I have no idea why you're making this point over and over again (enough that I've seen it at least 3 times even though you're on my ignore list!).

I mean really, it takes a pretty relentlessly negative person to use a hypothetical that never happened (us losing to a healthy Orlando team) as a way to continuously bash the team.

I don't need/care to read your response, but this required a correction, kthxbye... :cool:

I agree with you that they would not have been that low but they could have been if Howard had gotten healthy enough to play in the playoffs.. Please keep me on ignore, I don't care to read your responses either.......:cool:

mildlysane
07-04-2012, 05:21 PM
Come on Blu, Roy played pretty well against Howard at times this year. You have no idea how the games would have went. DH could have been in foul trouble all series long, as far as you know. Seems strange that you keep predicting the past.

SycamoreKen
07-04-2012, 05:23 PM
They need something to create a buzz.

Ummmm fifth best record in the league last year, having back to back strong showings in the playoffs by a great young team, having more of the talking heads saying more positive than negative things said about our team during said playoff run, and becoming relevant again in the national scene.

Nope none of that could create buzz at all.

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 05:37 PM
Come on Blu, Roy played pretty well against Howard at times this year. You have no idea how the games would have went. DH could have been in foul trouble all series long, as far as you know. Seems strange that you keep predicting the past.

Just my opinion. That series was much tougher than I expected with Howard being out. If he had been there, they would have gotten more and better three point looks. He does that. They would also have had better interior defense since he is the very best in the League at that. It seemed to me that Big Baby played Roy pretty well so Howard wouldn't have had to be on him all of the time. What makes you think we would have won if they had a top five player in the NBA and the best defensive player in the League at their dispossal? :cool:

mildlysane
07-04-2012, 05:57 PM
Just my opinion. That series was much tougher than I expected with Howard being out. If he had been there, they would have gotten more and better three point looks. He does that. They would also have had better interior defense since he is the very best in the League at that. It seemed to me that Big Baby played Roy pretty well so Howard wouldn't have had to be on him all of the time. What makes you think we would have won if they had a top five player in the NBA and the best defensive player in the League at their dispossal? :cool:
I have no idea if we would have won or not. You come across as implying that it is a fact that we would have lost the series if they had DH. If that is not your position, then I apologize. My position is that you never know until you actually play the games. Stranger things have happened.

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 05:58 PM
I have no idea if we would have won or not. You come across as implying that it is a fact that we would have lost the series if they had DH. If that is not your position, then I apologize. My position is that you never know until you actually play the games. Stranger things have happened.

Of course they have and upsets happen all of the time. It is just my opinion (that I value highly) that the Pacers would not have gotten past Orlando with a healthy Howard.....:cool:

vnzla81
07-04-2012, 06:08 PM
Why is he a troll because you guys disagree with him? stop it.

3rdStrike
07-04-2012, 06:14 PM
This is not any more true now than it was the first 500 times you posted it.


Nah, he's actually right about that. Orlando owned Roy Hibbert's mind body and soul. Dwight Howard particularly. So instead of Glen Davis dropping 19 ppg and Roy almost offsetting that, we would've had Dwight Howard going for 30/15 and Roy curling up into the fetal position.

(regular season stats)
Hibbert vs Orlando: 42% FG, 10.8 pts, 6.5 reb.
Howard vs Indiana: 69% FG, 23.8 pts, 10.8 reb

That matchup is, was and continues to be a no-contest in Dwight's favor. Roy Hibbert doesn't even offer resistance.

Sollozzo
07-04-2012, 06:15 PM
Why is he a troll because you guys disagree with him? stop it.


I agree. Come on, saying that the Pacers would have lost to a Magic team with Howard is a very legitimate opinion. We went what, 1-3 against them in the regular season with Howard? Regular season record doesn't mean everything, but it counts for something. Roy had a tough enough time scoring against Orlando without Howard, so just imagine how badly he would have struggled if Howard played. He certainly wouldn't have gotten near as many rebounds either. Howard would have also bullied him and scored on him at will like he always does.

Put it this way: If the Pacers had beat Orlando with a healthy Howard then it would have been a HUGE playoff victory for our team. If Howard plays then it's a dog fight and goes to 6 or 7 games. I think we would have had a good chance at winning the series, but it would certainly had not been a surprise if Orlando beat us.

xBulletproof
07-04-2012, 06:26 PM
Why is he a troll because you guys disagree with him? stop it.

No, it's because most of the time it's not even relevant to the conversation. He just throws it in there because he knows it will get a reaction. He also does the same thing you get crap for, is he repeats things over, and over, and over, and over, and over until you're just annoyed it's on your screen again. Which I will say during free agency you've done less of, just letting you know someone noticed. Thank you much. :)

He's easier to ignore for me though than you, I take you seriously even if I disagree. He's just like Skip Bayless to me. Easily ignored because I know it's just a joke.

Cactus Jax
07-04-2012, 06:27 PM
I do think OlBlu is some sort of annoying troll, I keep him off ignore for a couple reasons; entertainment, and occasionally he does make decent points even though he may just be saying it to **** people off. Orlando either beats the Pacers or makes it a close series with a healthy Howard.

The Pacers are closer to out of the playoffs than Finals contender even if they keep Roy, the Pacers were a huge beneficiary of the lockout, the team was almost all healthy for the entire season which; a) probably won't happen again next season, and b) other teams won't have nearly as many injuries as what happened last season.

vnzla81
07-04-2012, 06:27 PM
I agree. Come on, saying that the Pacers would have lost to a Magic team with Howard is a very legitimate opinion. We went what, 1-3 against them in the regular season with Howard? Regular season record doesn't mean everything, but it counts for something. Roy had a tough enough time scoring against Orlando without Howard, so just imagine how badly he would have struggled if Howard played. He certainly wouldn't have gotten near as many rebounds either. Howard would have also bullied him and scored on him at will like he always does.

Put it this way: If the Pacers had beat Orlando with a healthy Howard then it would have been a HUGE playoff victory for our team. If Howard plays then it's a dog fight and goes to 6 or 7 games. I think we would have had a good chance at winning the series, but it would certainly had not been a surprise if Orlando beat us.

Howard would have destroyed Roy not only that but Big Baby on West would have been another matchup in their favor, anytime Big Baby was on him he couldn't do nothing(George Lopez voice).

mildlysane
07-04-2012, 06:32 PM
Meh. Troll or not troll, I like the back and forth. If everyone always agreed on everything, then there would be no point in having a discussion forum. But, if I said he didn't tweak me a little bit sometimes, then I would be lying.

rabid
07-04-2012, 06:38 PM
Orlando and Indiana never play each other in the 1st round with a healthy Howard... this whole conversation is irrelevant...

BlueNGold
07-04-2012, 06:38 PM
I hate to agree with trolls. .....and just because I agree with OlBlu on this point certainly does not mean he's not in solid Troll territory.

So yeh, Hibbert did not have a good year against Howard and I agree with the sentiment that Orlando would have beat us with Howard. We would have been more competitive with Boston and Philly.

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 06:38 PM
No, it's because most of the time it's not even relevant to the conversation. He just throws it in there because he knows it will get a reaction. He also does the same thing you get crap for, is he repeats things over, and over, and over, and over, and over until you're just annoyed it's on your screen again. Which I will say during free agency you've done less of, just letting you know someone noticed. Thank you much. :)

He's easier to ignore for me though than you, I take you seriously even if I disagree. He's just like Skip Bayless to me. Easily ignored because I know it's just a joke.

It is not a joke to me and none of what you said is true. You cannot be any more irritated than I am with the pie in the sky view of the Pacers (we are contenders, we will be contenders, Gordon makes us a contender) by people here and they post that over and over and over again. Then they mention how awesome we were in the playoffs and I feel forced to repeat my opinion that not only were the Pacers not awesome but if they had drawn a healthy Howard, Orlando would likely have swept them. They got to play Miami without Bosh and after a couple of games to adjust to that, Miami put the hammer on them. I love the Pacers but I have enough sense to know that this team as it is currently made up is not going to be a contender and if everyone else keeps improving, they will have to fight to get into the playoffs... I do like the signing of Hill and I hope they match Hibbert but they will still need more help......:cool:

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 06:40 PM
Orlando and Indiana never play each other in the 1st round with a healthy Howard... this whole conversation is irrelevant...

Now that isn't true if Howard made it back just for the playoffs.... :cool:

OlBlu
07-04-2012, 06:40 PM
Meh. Troll or not troll, I like the back and forth. If everyone always agreed on everything, then there would be no point in having a discussion forum. But, if I said he didn't tweak me a little bit sometimes, then I would be lying.

I don't mean to tweak anyone, just to keep their feet on the ground and think a little bit.......:cool:

mildlysane
07-04-2012, 06:44 PM
Your opinion doesn't tweak me as much as the implication of absolutes. For all I know, we may have been swept out of the playoffs, losing to ORL by an average of 30 points a game. However, I don't know and can never know. No biggie, Blu.

BlueNGold
07-04-2012, 06:51 PM
I don't mean to tweak anyone, just to keep their feet on the ground and think a little bit.......:cool:

FWIW, Howard wasn't in the playoffs. If JO didn't implode and if Jon Bender was never injured and turned into a 7 foot Tracy McGrady, the Pacers might have 3 rings right now. But it didn't happen. While I agree with you in theory, that's all it is. Orlando with Howard is a figment of everyone's imagination. He didn't play for them in the playoffs and he won't be around next year either.

rabid
07-04-2012, 06:54 PM
If Derrick Rose didn't get hurt this year, the Bulls probably win the East... therefore Miami isn't good enough to win a championship! Better blow up that team!

doctor-h
07-04-2012, 07:23 PM
It is not a joke to me and none of what you said is true. You cannot be any more irritated than I am with the pie in the sky view of the Pacers (we are contenders, we will be contenders, Gordon makes us a contender) by people here and they post that over and over and over again. Then they mention how awesome we were in the playoffs and I feel forced to repeat my opinion that not only were the Pacers not awesome but if they had drawn a healthy Howard, Orlando would likely have swept them. They got to play Miami without Bosh and after a couple of games to adjust to that, Miami put the hammer on them. I love the Pacers but I have enough sense to know that this team as it is currently made up is not going to be a contender and if everyone else keeps improving, they will have to fight to get into the playoffs... I do like the signing of Hill and I hope they match Hibbert but they will still need more help......:cool:

You are right Blu. I don't know if I agree that we would have got swept, but I don't think we win that series. Your not a troll, you voice your opinion and that is fine. People need to respect that. Just as they hate my posts, I believe what I am saying. I think it was proven again in the playoffs. This team needs a star that refuses to lose. Somebody that will compete at his maximum every play and every minute. You can't take possessions off like Granger, George and some of the others do. Our bench was nowhere near a strength, Barbosa was streaky just like he has always been. Hansbrough is going backward, Amundson gives great effort all the time but his game has serious flaws.
Granger can not get it done when a defense focuses on him. James and Wade were not only far more talented, the compete much, much harder than anyone we have. Some of these posters that argue with us would rather go to the game for the party and drink than have any clue what is going on on the floor.

MnvrChvy
07-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Why is he a troll because you guys disagree with him? stop it.

Look... I read his opinion the first time and considered it. Is the concept of Orlando sweeping us a possibility given the factors he proposed? Sure it is. My opinion is that is NOT what would have happened in that imaginary situation. No biggy. I don't mind thinking about those things. I only reason I said what I said is because it was probably the 10th time I've read that comment from him on an irrelevant thread. I don't think he's stupid or anything for believing what he believes, but it does get annoying hearing it over and over again for no reason. I disagree with most of what you say too, but you don't keep proposing the same thing incessantly. I still like to read what you say because there might be something in there that I'd not considered.

He's under no obligation to avoid annoying me. I just said what I said to (1)express my opinion and (2)to hint at the fact that we all already know he thinks this and that he might not need to say it again.

cdash
07-04-2012, 07:54 PM
Why is he a troll because you guys disagree with him? stop it.

Because we aren't him.

Pace Maker
07-04-2012, 10:40 PM
If Derrick Rose didn't get hurt this year, the Bulls probably win the East... therefore Miami isn't good enough to win a championship! Better blow up that team!

I see what you're getting at, but that analogy doesn't quite work because (I think) Miami won the seasons series between them this year and beat them in 5 games last year. But it would have applied last year where Chicago went 3-0 against Miami in the regular season last year before Miami stomped them in the playoffs.

Pacersalltheway10
07-04-2012, 10:45 PM
It's not the Pacers plan to bring in second rate talent, it's the only choice they have. Good players don't want to sign with Indiana no matter how much it makes since from a basketball standpoint. That's how the NBA is built.

vnzla81
07-04-2012, 10:59 PM
If Derrick Rose didn't get hurt this year, the Bulls probably win the East... therefore Miami isn't good enough to win a championship! Better blow up that team!

The Bulls had the best record in the east and Rose was hurt for a big part of the season so yeah there is a possibility they win the east if Rose is healthy, I don't get your point :confused:

Saying that the Pacers don't win with Howard or Bosh is not as crazy as you think, been in denial and not making the right adjustments to take it to those teams next time they are probably 100% healthy it's a huge mistake.

rabid
07-04-2012, 11:11 PM
My point is that we can play the hypothetical game all day but it's pointless. You play who you play. Sure we need to improve but the dwightless magic scenario is pointless to talk about, if the magic had Dwight then they have the talent of a 3-4 seed, not a 6 seed.

vnzla81
07-04-2012, 11:28 PM
My point is that we can play the hypothetical game all day but it's pointless. You play who you play. Sure we need to improve but the dwightless magic scenario is pointless to talk about, if the magic had Dwight then they have the talent of a 3-4 seed, not a 6 seed.

True but then we probably had to face Boston, NY or Philly, the reality is that we faced the team everybody was aiming for in the first round because they didn't have Howard, that made it easier for us to get to the second round.

rabid
07-05-2012, 12:42 AM
Rose being hurt made it easier for the Heat, that's my point, it's the exact same logic you just used, but no one is saying the Heat didn't earn their championship because they didn't have to face Rose and the Bulls.

rabid
07-05-2012, 12:43 AM
So just give the Pacers the damn credit they deserve in the playoffs this year. Guys get hurt, so what, you can't choose who you play against.