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View Full Version : Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?



naptownmenace
07-03-2012, 05:44 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8125605/indiana-pacers-george-hill-agree-5-year-deal-report-says

If the Pacers decide not to match Portland's offer, the Pacers will pursue New Orleans free-agent center Chris Kaman and Denver's JaVale McGee, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.


I'd be fine with that. I know JaVale has basketball IQ issues but after his trade to Denver, where he received good coaching and played with mature players for the first time in his career, he produced very well.


2011-12 STATS

PPG - 11.3
RPG - 7.8
FG% - .556
APG - 0.5
BLKPG - 2.16
STLPG - 0.57

Regardless of whether or not the Pacers match or if they make an offer to JaVale whether Denver would match, who has the greater upside/potential? I doubt he'll ever be a 20 ppg scorer but I doubt Hibbert will be either. I really think that JaVale could develop into a Tyson Chandler type of Center. What's Hibbert's ceiling? How close is he to it now?

I really don't have any idea.

Kstat
07-03-2012, 05:45 PM
...is this a joke? McGee isnt even an effective starter. His time in both Washington and Denver proved that.

Kaman is a proven starter, but like McGee he is a plus player on only one side of the floor. His age and health are also a concern.

croz24
07-03-2012, 05:46 PM
Forget the stats, have you ever seen McGee play? Might be the dumbest "basketball player" I've ever seen.

OlBlu
07-03-2012, 05:51 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8125605/indiana-pacers-george-hill-agree-5-year-deal-report-says



I'd be fine with that. I know JaVale has basketball IQ issues but after his trade to Denver, where he received good coaching and played with mature players for the first time in his career, he produced very well.


2011-12 STATS

PPG - 11.3
RPG - 7.8
FG% - .556
APG - 0.5
BLKPG - 2.16
STLPG - 0.57

Regardless of whether or not the Pacers match or if they make an offer to JaVale whether Denver would match, who has the greater upside/potential? I doubt he'll ever be a 20 ppg scorer but I doubt Hibbert will be either. I really think that JaVale could develop into a Tyson Chandler type of Center. What's Hibbert's ceiling? How close is he to it now?

I really don't have any idea.

You must be kidding. Hibbert is at another level from JaVale..........:cool:

CableKC
07-03-2012, 05:51 PM
I'd take Kaman at a cheaper rate so that we can have $$$ left over to go after other Players.

PR07
07-03-2012, 06:01 PM
Hibbert, easily.

ECKrueger
07-03-2012, 06:05 PM
Would you rather...

Sign McGee and lose Hibbert or have every thread on here be about Hibbert and/or Gordon for the whole season?

Sandman21
07-03-2012, 06:06 PM
Hibbert.

And Just say NO to Kaman! (at least until Hibbert is locked in as a Pacer)

LG33
07-03-2012, 06:09 PM
If we lose Hibbert and JaVale is open to a contract under 10 million per, I'd guess I'd consider it. Would probably have to move to a more perimeter-oriented style though.

Sandman21
07-03-2012, 06:14 PM
Would you rather...

Sign McGee and lose Hibbert or have every thread on here be about Hibbert and/or Gordon for the whole season?

Either way, we'll have half the threads on here be about Gordon for the whole season. We could somehow sign him without losing PG and half the threads here will STILL be about Gordon, 100% after the inevitable injury causes missed time.

naptownmenace
07-03-2012, 06:19 PM
I'll admit, I chose a gotcha styled titled to get you to look at this thread. I know Hibbert is the better player now but will he be in 2-3 years. I still see potential in JaVale. He's working with Hakeem this summer and can still develop his offensive game. He's only 23 years old.

He had a 21 points and 14 rebounds game against the Lakers during the playoffs. He had another 14 rebound game and a 15 rebound game in that 7 game series. In fact, I think he played a big role in extending the series to 7 games against the Lakers.

vnzla81
07-03-2012, 06:22 PM
I'm intrigued by player A but I still like player B better, player C wouldn't be a bad choice either, now if we can somehow have players A+B+C together I'm listening but we would probably have to trade player Z, player A is a nice player though but I'm not 100% sure about him.




Kstas bait ;)

Pace Maker
07-03-2012, 06:26 PM
Javale isn't quite as bad as people think, obviously he has some BBIQ issues and is very raw, but he has a lot of potential. Wouldn't be a terrible addition for the right price.

That said, he is no where near Hibbert.

PacersHomer
07-03-2012, 06:27 PM
Oh my God if we sign McGee and let Hibbert walk I will throw a huge fit.

ChristianDudley
07-03-2012, 06:30 PM
Hmm...who was an All-Star this past season? Definitely not JaVale...

ColeTheMole
07-03-2012, 06:31 PM
In the way that ESPN makes players who provide "highlights" seem better than they actually are, ESPN makes Javale Mcgee seem worse than he actually is because of his "lowlights".

Wage
07-03-2012, 06:39 PM
...is this a joke? McGee isnt even an effective starter. His time in both Washington and Denver proved that.

Kaman is a proven starter, but like McGee he is a plus player on only one side of the floor. His age and health are also a concern.

I prefer Hibbert over both McGee and Kaman, but people need to stop pretending he is a great defender. He blocks a couple shots per game because he is the tallest guy on the court, but he is slow to rotate, does not hold position very well, and falls down every time a guard gets near him. He's basically Shawn Bradley minus 4 inches.

billbradley
07-03-2012, 06:40 PM
The ONLY thing McGee does better than Hibby is how he goes up with ball much quicker, doesn't hesitate.

But McGee's Game 5 performance versus the Lakers may still be fresh in mind.

mattie
07-03-2012, 06:42 PM
I'd be all about losing Roy if we could steal JaVale. JaVale has got a lot of talent and with good coaching will be a very good player.

Pacer Fan
07-03-2012, 06:48 PM
If Javale and Kaman could be had for 9 mil each, I'd take them both over Roy. 1 on 1 has to go to Roy without a doubt.

On a side note: I wouldn't be hating Javale if Pacers picked him up. I'd love to see Javale and Cousins play here. Would be exciting. :)

cdash
07-03-2012, 06:51 PM
If we sign JaVale McGee, I quickly jump on the "**** it, let's start Plumlee" bandwagon. I cannot root for that dude.

Roaming Gnome
07-03-2012, 06:56 PM
Tragic Bronson... No thanks!!!

gummy
07-03-2012, 06:58 PM
Javale isn't quite as bad as people think, obviously he has some BBIQ issues and is very raw, but he has a lot of potential. Wouldn't be a terrible addition for the right price.

That said, he is no where near Hibbert.

His BB IQ issues put a cap on his potential. How much can you really get better when you don't understand the game on some fundamental levels (and if you don't by now...)?

I don't want him. Would rather have Kaman if it comes to that.

Pacer Fan
07-03-2012, 06:59 PM
The ONLY thingS McGee does better than Hibby is how he goes up with ball extremely quicker, doesn't hesitate and has much quicker feet and runs the floor much faster and has more then 2 post moves that doesn't result in just hook shots because he is so much quicker on his feet he can beat his man straight up. How Javale can pick up help defense so much quicker and can play in and out cause he can actually move his feet. How he is a year younger then Roy and was deprived from good coaching with the generals.

But McGee's Game 5 performance versus the Lakers may still be fresh in mind.

Fixed

billbradley
07-03-2012, 06:59 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YDqQuB_aPak" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

billbradley
07-03-2012, 07:01 PM
Fixed

I mean yeah, I agree with most of that, it's just Hibbert is drastically better at being a basketball player.

PacersHomer
07-03-2012, 07:08 PM
Javale McGee (aka Pierre) is absolutely hilarious on Twitter though. I like him because he's funny and an okay center, but he is so damn stupid.

BringJackBack
07-03-2012, 07:09 PM
The worst player possible to replace Roy with is Javale... :laugh:

Pacer Fan
07-03-2012, 07:10 PM
:laugh:

ilive4sports
07-03-2012, 07:12 PM
Now wait, JaVale might help bring the fans back. He provides great entertainment. Indy will be buzzing with "I wonder what JaVale will do next game."

Speed
07-03-2012, 07:25 PM
I'm a big McGee guy, he could be one of the top centers in the game if he quits being a knucklehead. People are sleeping on his potential, he has a very very very high ceiling.

Also, the op tweet said Kaman AND McGee, does that mean both?

cdash
07-03-2012, 07:30 PM
I'm a big McGee guy, he could be one of the top centers in the game if he quits being a knucklehead. People are sleeping on his potential, he has a very very very high ceiling.


Yes he does, and there is almost no chance he ever reaches that ceiling because he is, in fact, a total idiot on the basketball court.

ECKrueger
07-03-2012, 07:33 PM
I'm a big McGee guy, he could be one of the top centers in the game if he quits being a knucklehead. People are sleeping on his potential, he has a very very very high ceiling.

Also, the op tweet said Kaman AND McGee, does that mean both?

Well, that IS the definition of and... :P

I'm guessing it means they'll go after both and get whichever makes more sense.

Lance George
07-03-2012, 07:36 PM
He had a 21 points and 14 rebounds game against the Lakers during the playoffs. He had another 14 rebound game and a 15 rebound game in that 7 game series. In fact, I think he played a big role in extending the series to 7 games against the Lakers.

Yep. He's much better than people are giving him credit for.

http://bkref.com/tiny/wfMau

If we wanna get technical, Javale scored more points per-minute than Roy, did it more efficiently (TS%: .539 vs. 552; eFG%: .497 vs. .556), pulled down more rebounds per-minute, and blocked more shots per-minute. He also had a terrific postseason showing again the Lakers.

It's become trendy to belittle McGee, thus, most people do it, but no one in their right mind can deny that he's a very productive basketball player. Although he can't admit it, lest his hypocrisy be exposed, McGee provides exactly the type of production that Kstat is dreaming of Andre Drummond giving Detroit in the future -- efficient scoring, big time rebounding, and a bunch of blocked shots.

I'd happily take him at $10M per-season. I'm sure Denver would match that, though.

By the way, Denver had a superior winning percentage with McGee than with Nene.

Denver, w/ Nene: 16-12 (.571)
Denver, w/ McGee: 13-7 (.650)

Although, to be fair, Washington had a far superior record with Nene. It looks like a win/win trade, although give me the 24-year-old over the 29-year-old going forward.

RLeWorm
07-03-2012, 07:39 PM
Plumlee>Mcgee....actually idk they both kind of suck

Justin Tyme
07-03-2012, 07:44 PM
Wasn't JaVale the player who said previous to being traded to Denver he wanted a new contract at 14 mil? If so, I highly doubt he's changed his mind. You can bet your sweet bippie Denver isn't going to give JaVale a 14 mil contract. If he could be gotten for 8-9 mil, you'd have to consider him if the Pacers choose not to re-sign Hibbert. Take the 5-6 mil and use it towards picking up another FA.

Since people are throwing out controversial names, you can probably pick up Blatche from the Wiz at 8 mil. He can play both the 4 & 5.

I want Hibbert back, but not at some ridiculous salary. There are other options out there, just not Hibbertesque. The front office might decide not to match and just get a plug the dam type player for this year to see how things sake out.

Another name to consifer is Robin Lopez who is a RFA... offer him 6-7 mil. Maybe he bites and the Suns don't match since they have Gortat. Please no Herb won't go after RFA spiel. I believe it's been determined he'd be willing, just won't get in a bidding war for a RFA like Gordon.

Speed
07-03-2012, 07:46 PM
People are seeing a different player than I am, he's looked very very good, when I've seen him. I need to go see Roy and McGee's head to head, but it seemed like Roy struggled against him. What is it that people don't like about his game? Guys has about every physical attribute you'd hope for in a center.

LA_Confidential
07-03-2012, 07:54 PM
I could have sworn I heard somewhere that McGee is looking for 14mill a yr. I don't see how he could even be considered an option to replace Roy. This has to be nothing more than posturing. If the FO is seriously considering not matching, theyI'll be Pritch Slapping themselves.

wtelfair
07-03-2012, 07:56 PM
If we lose Hibbert and JaVale is open to a contract under 10 million per, I'd guess I'd consider it. Would probably have to move to a more perimeter-oriented style though.

Good thing some people on this forum are just bulletin board posters and not general managers. OMG!

mattie
07-03-2012, 08:19 PM
Yep. He's much better than people are giving him credit for.

http://bkref.com/tiny/wfMau

If we wanna get technical, Javale scored more points per-minute than Roy, did it more efficiently (TS%: .539 vs. 552; eFG%: .497 vs. .556), pulled down more rebounds per-minute, and blocked more shots per-minute. He also had a terrific postseason showing again the Lakers.

It's become trendy to belittle McGee, thus, most people do it, but no one in their right mind can deny that he's a very productive basketball player. Although he can't admit it, lest his hypocrisy be exposed, McGee provides exactly the type of production that Kstat is dreaming of Andre Drummond giving Detroit in the future -- efficient scoring, big time rebounding, and a bunch of blocked shots.

I'd happily take him at $10M per-season. I'm sure Denver would match that, though.

By the way, Denver had a superior winning percentage with McGee than with Nene.

Denver, w/ Nene: 16-12 (.571)
Denver, w/ McGee: 13-7 (.650)

Although, to be fair, Washington had a far superior record with Nene. It looks like a win/win trade, although give me the 24-year-old over the 29-year-old going forward.

Exactly. It's trendy.

The new thing is laughing at how dumb McGee supposedly is. He's very talented however, although he is ADHD like on the court sometimes. But most of the time he's rebounding well, playing good defense and scoring efficiently. (great cuts to the basket and put backs)

I'd love to have JaVale. But then again I don't base my opinons on players off of ******** narratives created by ESPN. :)

Pacer Fan
07-03-2012, 08:20 PM
How bout Resign Roy.
Sign Javale.
Trade DWest, DC and 2 future draft picks for Rondo.
Then we can go kick some serious A S S!

Hibbert / Plumlee
McGee / Hans
Granger / George
George / Hill
Rondo / Hill

naptownmenace
07-03-2012, 08:24 PM
I really do think he'll be as good as or better than Tyson Chandler and he has the potential to be better than Roy Hibbert.

Javale is a much better finisher around the Rim than Roy will ever be. He doesn't get knocked to the floor 7 times a game either.

naptownmenace
11-19-2012, 04:40 PM
:bump:

Javale McGee
2012-13 Season
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
11.1 6.1 1.9 25.13 in 19.6 minutes per game.

Roy Hibbert
2012-13 Season
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
8.5 8.0 2.4 12.08 in 28.8 minutes per game.

So far through 10 games for both Roy and Javale, I know which guy I'd rather have. It's a long season though. Let's revisit this every 10 games or so.

Derek2k3
11-19-2012, 04:52 PM
:bump:

Javale McGee
2012-13 Season
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
11.1 6.1 1.9 25.13 in 19.6 minutes per game.

Roy Hibbert
2012-13 Season
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
8.5 8.0 2.4 12.08 in 28.8 minutes per game.

So far through 10 games for both Roy and Javale, I know which guy I'd rather have. It's a long season though. Let's revisit this every 10 games or so.

As soon as I saw this thread bumped, I got sad.

naptownmenace
11-19-2012, 05:18 PM
As soon as I saw this thread bumped, I got sad.

You had to know it was coming. I'm not making any final judgments. I plan on watching this situation carefully all season long to see who got the better deal.

BlueNGold
11-19-2012, 07:24 PM
Teams are collapsing on Hibbert and focusing the defense on stopping him. Nobody is doing that with McGee. If teams guarded Hibbert like they guard McGee, they'd be giving up 30ppg to Roy every night.

Dece
11-19-2012, 07:39 PM
Has Hibbert even scored 30 points in any game for his career? I sort of doubt it. Hibbert will never be even a 20 PPG scorer. I'd be thrilled if he hit 15.

gummy
11-19-2012, 11:10 PM
Has Hibbert even scored 30 points in any game for his career? I sort of doubt it. Hibbert will never be even a 20 PPG scorer. I'd be thrilled if he hit 15.

Yes, once.

30 vs. New Orleans 02/21/12

Speed
11-19-2012, 11:30 PM
McGee and Hawes were two guys I would have went after if they wouldn't have signed Roy. It'll be interesting to see if George Karl will play McGee more minutes as the season goes on. You can see by his PER he is crazy impactful in only 19.6 mins a game.

wintermute
11-19-2012, 11:38 PM
McGee can't even start over Kosta Koufus. He's fine as a backup, but Wiz fans and Nugget fans know just how many bone-headed plays McGee will get into if given enough playing time.

Btw, I'll bet Hibbert's offense would look tons better too if he's playing with Andre Miller all the time...

naptownmenace
12-08-2012, 10:42 PM
I said I was going to bump this after every 10 games. it just so happens that the 20th game of the season was against the Nuggets and Roy and JaVale got to go head to head quite a bit. Well, Roy's defense has been solid despite his abysmal offense.

JaVale has been pretty consistent though. He still seems to do one goofy thing per game but I consider Roy's multiple point blank misses and bad passes are worse.

Head to head last night I have to give the nod to JaVale and that really really bothers me.

jeffg-body
12-08-2012, 11:49 PM
Roy is still the guy I would want regardless of his offensive scoring slump. His defensive play is still top notch and he will break out of his scoring slump soon enough. I see it as much as an absence of Danny that affords the defense to sag at times and take Roy out of the game offensively.

CableKC
12-08-2012, 11:58 PM
I choose Roy over Javale. This Team already has enough low IQ Basketball Players....I don't want to decrease the overall Basketball IQ of the Team any more than it is.

BlueCollarColts
12-09-2012, 12:04 AM
still Roy, he is still a top 5 defensive center in the NBA, his shot will come around

BlueNGold
12-09-2012, 12:07 AM
This year's Hibbert? Clearly McGee. The answer all depends on how Roy plays going forward.

I would probably go with McGee.

Alabama-Redneck
12-09-2012, 12:22 AM
You already have one McGee on the team in Green, why would you want two? Someone that can jump through the roof but that is it. Just saying....

:cool:

Hicks
12-09-2012, 12:38 AM
I said I was going to bump this after every 10 games. it just so happens that the 20th game of the season was against the Nuggets and Roy and JaVale got to go head to head quite a bit. Well, Roy's defense has been solid despite his abysmal offense.

JaVale has been pretty consistent though. He still seems to do one goofy thing per game but I consider Roy's multiple point blank misses and bad passes are worse.

Head to head last night I have to give the nod to JaVale and that really really bothers me.

I think calling Roy's defense 'solid' is selling it very short.

Dece
12-09-2012, 01:11 AM
I'm sure I'd throw some stuff at the screen for McGee's play, but watching the worst offensive play I've ever seen from a starting center has caused me to do the same... I guess at the end of the day I'll take the guy who shot 9/9... McGee isn't a complete zero on the defensive side the way Hibbert is on the offensive end.

CableKC
12-09-2012, 01:31 AM
I'm sure I'd throw some stuff at the screen for McGee's play, but watching the worst offensive play I've ever seen from a starting center has caused me to do the same... I guess at the end of the day I'll take the guy who shot 9/9... McGee isn't a complete zero on the defensive side the way Hibbert is on the offensive end.
I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back :pray: whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

BlueNGold
12-09-2012, 09:19 AM
You already have one McGee on the team in Green, why would you want two? Someone that can jump through the roof but that is it. Just saying....

:cool:

McGee does not have the bball IQ that Roy has...so I agree. I also hope Roy gets it together. But McGee is two years younger than Roy, shoots for a much, much higher percentage and produces far more offense per minute played. He may even learn how to play basketball in time.

Edit: Take some time to look at McGee's offensive stats. He's doing a lot better than Roy and it didn't start this year. At the same time, Roy is a great defensive force. So, it's pretty close.

naptownmenace
12-09-2012, 11:46 AM
I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back :pray: whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

Javale made one boneheaded play but the rest of the game he was solid on both ends of the floor. He's a much better finisher around the basket and he still blocks/challenges shots and grabs you around 10 boards per 36 minutes. The Pacers game was the first time he played 30 minutes this year and all he did was drop 20 points along with 8 boards.

The key is that he's getting paid a lot less than Roy and with Javale I see him continuing to improve.

vnzla81
12-09-2012, 11:53 AM
I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back :pray: whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

I pick Hibbert over McGee but regarding to what you are saying I'm not sure how high Roy's BB IQ is, he probably makes as many stupid plays as Mcgee per game but because Mcgee is such a goofy looking guy he gets the low BB IQ tag.

Slick Pinkham
12-09-2012, 11:54 AM
I can accept that McGee is A better overall athlete, but has a low basketball IQ and has a history of being less than an all-in team player. I'm fine with Roy, though I am beginning to think we overpaid (though we were forced to do so).

Sollozzo
12-09-2012, 11:57 AM
I'm fine with Roy, though I am beginning to think we overpaid (though we were forced to do so).


Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.

Hicks
12-09-2012, 12:10 PM
Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.

How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

Sollozzo
12-09-2012, 12:17 PM
How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

I don't think that expecting a max player to average around 15 PPG is too much to ask for. Dipping from 12.8 PPG to 9.8 with a FG% of 10% less than last year is extremely disappointing. Obviously scoring the ball is just one aspect of the game, and thankfully Roy still has a massive defensive presence and tremendous rebounding skills. But I really don't think that hoping for Smits-like offensive production in the prime of his career is expecting too much. It will be very disappointing, IMHO, if his offensive game doesn't improve as he hits the prime of his career.

Cousy47
12-09-2012, 12:28 PM
Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.
Sadly, it's not on him. It's also up to us to make a team around him if he is to be our center piece. We have failed to do that so far. We did not "have" to pay him when the season ended last year. We could have matched the Portland offer as part of a trade. We could have let him walk to Portland and been a big money player in the FA market. We could have gotten in the D. Horward bidding/trade contest for a year. We could have done lots of things, but we did what the Pacers always do. We fall in love with our players and over estimate their worth like they are part of the family rather than an asset in a business that is always changing. I think we will overpay for West, overpay to keep Tyler and nake no movve to trade for assets we need at the end of this season. But that's okay, the family love atttitude is part of the reason I and probably most of the fan base are Pacer fans.

Justin Tyme
12-09-2012, 12:42 PM
I'd rather have Hibbert at around 4 mil less in salary. Unfortunately, that's just wishful thinking.

Portland spent their money on re-signing Batum and that isn't looking real good right now. Just think they could have gotten Hibbert at a max and re-signed Batum, and not be much better as a team than they are right now with how both are playing.

BlueNGold
12-09-2012, 12:57 PM
Sadly, it's not on him. It's also up to us to make a team around him if he is to be our center piece. We have failed to do that so far.

Good post otherwise, but I think we did add pieces around Roy. George Hill and David West are solid players and produce nightly. Paul George is "emerging". We have the talent around him and considering he's by far the highest paid player active on the Pacers, he should be the stud. He's not been that. Hibbert is not playing as well as he did last year. He's taken a step backward rather than forward. We should be able to expect improvement over last year, but the opposite happened. At the same time, I am hopeful he will start playing better. We've all seen that from him. Slumps, then he starts playing like Tim Duncan.

Trophy
12-09-2012, 01:12 PM
Roy is a much better overall center than McGee is.

If given Hibbert and McGee to choose from for your future center, you'd be crazy to think McGee is your franchise player. A good backup, yes. A good starting center, no.

I know he had a big game against us :woohoo:, but you give him in the ball in the post and he'll throw up some awful shots. He's not a smart player either.

Look at some clips of him. He makes some awful decisions and not play in the post like most top 10 centers can do.

Roy, who is in an offensive slump, is probably one of the best defensive big men in the league. His defense will lead to the offensive game that was there last year sooner of later. It seems like some people aren't even watching the games and are pissing and whining, saying Roy is doing nothing and is useless.

I also feel like pessimism/optimism often gets in the way of logic and some people's remarks sound ridiculous.

Dece
12-09-2012, 01:29 PM
Throw up some awful shots? Like every shot Hibbert has taken this year? Listen, make any argument you want, but DO NOT make the argument that we'd regret the swap offensively. One guy is shooting 58% from the floor, and the other is shooting 38%. That has to be the largest fg% comparison gap I've ever seen. 20%!? Are you serious?

vnzla81
12-09-2012, 01:49 PM
Throw up some awful shots? Like every shot Hibbert has taken this year? Listen, make any argument you want, but DO NOT make the argument that we'd regret the swap offensively. One guy is shooting 58% from the floor, and the other is shooting 38%. That has to be the largest fg% comparison gap I've ever seen. 20%!? Are you serious?

I feel the same way, Hibbert throws some crap shots too but he doesn't get as high as McGee so people don't notice it as much, they both make stupid mistakes too, the only reason I take Hibbert over McGee is because I think he is a better defender and a better passer nothing else.

Hicks
12-09-2012, 02:41 PM
I don't think that expecting a max player to average around 15 PPG is too much to ask for. Dipping from 12.8 PPG to 9.8 with a FG% of 10% less than last year is extremely disappointing. Obviously scoring the ball is just one aspect of the game, and thankfully Roy still has a massive defensive presence and tremendous rebounding skills. But I really don't think that hoping for Smits-like offensive production in the prime of his career is expecting too much. It will be very disappointing, IMHO, if his offensive game doesn't improve as he hits the prime of his career.

But you said you wanted to see him improve, which to me means add things he didn't already have. It seems, in fact, you're just wanting him to shoot a good FG%.

Peck
12-09-2012, 03:50 PM
I think the fact that McGee backs up Kosta Kofus says it all.

Roy will be a starting center in the NBA for a long time to come (barring injury) probably a decade or more & McGee can't even start right now over Kosta Kofus.

vnzla81
12-09-2012, 04:14 PM
I think the fact that McGee backs up Kosta Kofus says it all.

Roy will be a starting center in the NBA for a long time to come (barring injury) probably a decade or more & McGee can't even start right now over Kosta Kofus.

McGee is not starting because George Karl doesn't want to play Faried and McGee together not because McGee is not good.

Derek2k3
12-09-2012, 10:31 PM
How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

While I get what you're saying...Roy got his contract based on his 2011 play and the assumption he'd be as good or better.

He's been incredibly worse. Does he even have 1 game of better than 50% shooting?

He's shooting in the mid 30's, missing layups and tip's, turning it over...his defense has been sensational, but he's a massive negative force offensively. How incredible does he have to be defensively to offset his absurdly bad offense (so far)?

Right now, they're both playing like $5M-$8M guys. I assume Hibbert will be better...but at this exact moment give me Javale. At least he wont take 12 shots a game and miss 9.

naptownmenace
12-10-2012, 12:20 AM
I think the fact that McGee backs up Kosta Kofus says it all.

Roy will be a starting center in the NBA for a long time to come (barring injury) probably a decade or more & McGee can't even start right now over Kosta Kofus.

The same Kosta kofus that played Roy to a standstill at times? He's a good Center as well. The real reason George Karl brings JaVale off the bench is so he can play alongside Andre Miller. He said as much at the beginning of the season.

Wage
12-10-2012, 12:55 AM
How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

I know you didn't ask me, but I will take a shot at this anyway. I was skeptical about signing Roy to his current contract in the first place, but felt that so long as he continued to improve he would have a chance of living up to his contract. As far as improvements go, first I think a face up game is absolutely mandatory for Roy to develop. He's not strong enough to hold post position for long, so he really needs the ability to keep defenses honest from a little farther out. It would be nice if he could develop a few more post moves as well. He has become so predictable in the post that defenders just push him off his spot and watch him throw up a wildly inaccurate baby hook.

Wage
12-10-2012, 01:02 AM
and falls down every time a guard gets near him.

...I made myself sad after seeing that Westbrook block. :(

Eleazar
12-10-2012, 02:32 AM
Does he even have 1 game of better than 50% shooting?

He has shot 50% or better in 5 games.


I know you didn't ask me, but I will take a shot at this anyway. I was skeptical about signing Roy to his current contract in the first place, but felt that so long as he continued to improve he would have a chance of living up to his contract. As far as improvements go, first I think a face up game is absolutely mandatory for Roy to develop. He's not strong enough to hold post position for long, so he really needs the ability to keep defenses honest from a little farther out. It would be nice if he could develop a few more post moves as well. He has become so predictable in the post that defenders just push him off his spot and watch him throw up a wildly inaccurate baby hook.

Roy has developed a little bit of a face up game. Not much of one, but he is hitting the 15 footer with some consistency when open.

naptownmenace
12-10-2012, 12:39 PM
I'm really eager to see what the next 9 games show us. I'll be sure to update this after game #30.

However, at this point we should all agree that it's inexcusable for a 7'2" Center that takes the majority of his shots from within 10 feet to shoot less than 45%. I expect all Centers to shoot at least 50% especially one that is as big as Roy Hibbert.

Derek2k3
12-10-2012, 12:57 PM
He has shot 50% or better in 5 games.

Thanks, E.

naptownmenace
06-09-2014, 12:40 PM
Bump.

I know this is a little old and that Javale was injured this past season but I still wonder if the Pacers would be better off with a more athletic center that can consistently finish at the rim like Javale. The injury really makes it hard to tell but I'd be very interested in seeing how Javale would play if he was in the Pacers lineup and how the Pacers would play offensively.

khaos01207
06-09-2014, 12:44 PM
Bump.

I know this is a little old and that Javale was injured this past season but I still wonder if the Pacers would be better off with a more athletic center that can consistently finish at the rim like Javale. The injury really makes it hard to tell but I'd be very interested in seeing how Javale would play if he was in the Pacers lineup and how the Pacers would play offensively.

We have plenty of people capable of turning the ball over. Sorry JaVale, that means we have no role for you here

CableKC
06-09-2014, 01:16 PM
We have plenty of people capable of turning the ball over and making stupid plays. Sorry JaVale, that means we have no role for you here
Fixed.

Speed
06-09-2014, 01:51 PM
Javale is maybe the most athletic 5 in the league, not named Dwight Howard, but doesn't seem to give a crap and he missed almost all of last year with injury. Roy is maybe the most unathletic big in the league, who cares so much it weighs on him so heavy it destroys his psyche. They are almost polar opposite physically and mentally, imo. Roy will work, Javale, well I'm saying not his strength to take this seriously.

Even with the mess of the last half of this season and the 6 horrific outings in the playoffs AND the exploitations of Roys limitations AND his crazy salary.... You have to take Roy over Javale everytime. Javale could retire tomorrow and I wouldn't be surprised. Roy's at least gonna try.

Look I'm disgusted with how this went down too, but McGee and Roy comparison really isn't fair to Roy in any way. It's not close. Unless you think that your that girl who can fix him, save him mentality, I'm not sure you want anythign to do with McGee.

Some guys you can win games with, some guys you can't.

wintermute
06-09-2014, 01:58 PM
For all of Hibbert's issues, I'd say the deck is pretty stacked in Hibbert's favor now. The whole intrigue with McGee is whether he could develop enough game to make use of his athletic gifts... 2 years later, he's still the same old McGee that everyone loves (to make fun of).

As for the injury - he was extremely horrible before he got injured. No, I don't think we would have been better off with McGee. George Karl probably got the most out of him the previous year, and even then Karl knew to restrict him to small doses.

pogi
06-09-2014, 02:14 PM
Like Ron White said: "You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever!"

Also, I question anyone who thinks McGee is even worth looking. Do you actually watch the games? Or just stats?

ksuttonjr76
06-09-2014, 02:20 PM
Are we still waiting on Hibbert's offensive game to get better? Seems we're still complaining about the same things two years later. Now, Hibbert has added some scoreless games to add to his resume.

Speed
06-09-2014, 02:36 PM
Like Ron White said: "You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever!"

Also, I question anyone who thinks McGee is even worth looking. Do you actually watch the games? Or just stats?

I watched him a ton, cause in our fantasy league he's awesome FPPM guy, but never plays alot of mins, though. He is really fun to watch, he'll block jump shots from nowhere, he max protects the lane, crazy wing span. He completely can shut down the lane. Reminds me of Anthony Davis but maybe longer. He also gets lost, he also can't play long stints due to conditioning, he also has lapses in concentration. Its frustrating, he is so fun to watch or invisible or horrific.

Play last year he didn't just block a jump shot, he grabbed it... like a rebound, on the way up from 5-7 feet away. It was impressive.

If his mind was right he'd be dominant, I have no doubt. Basketball just doesn't seem that important to him. I wish it was, again, he is fun to watch and capable of alot of great things. He just can't seem to get out of his own way.

Speed
06-09-2014, 02:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvbzSzVbdOg

wintermute
06-09-2014, 02:55 PM
Now, Hibbert has added some scoreless games to add to his resume.

... as well as another All-Star selection and second team All-Defense.

Look, we know Hibbert is a mixed bag of highs and lows, but some team is going to look at that resume and think, hey we can get this guy playing at a high level again. That team might even be the Pacers.

With McGee on the other hand, no one even knows whether he can ever play at a high level. Athletic potential only carries one so far, and after 6 seasons in the NBA (same as Hibbert!) I'd say not many people are still holding out hope on him.

Rogco
06-09-2014, 03:31 PM
To whom? I think Hibbert would be worth more to every team in the league.

naptownmenace
06-10-2014, 12:06 PM
For all of Hibbert's issues, I'd say the deck is pretty stacked in Hibbert's favor now. The whole intrigue with McGee is whether he could develop enough game to make use of his athletic gifts... 2 years later, he's still the same old McGee that everyone loves (to make fun of).

As for the injury - he was extremely horrible before he got injured. No, I don't think we would have been better off with McGee. George Karl probably got the most out of him the previous year, and even then Karl knew to restrict him to small doses.

That's not accurate or fair. He only played 5 games and he was playing through injury the whole time. That's why he went and got another look at his leg and low and behold, he needed surgery.

I like Roy and when he's at his best and his mind is right, he's great on both ends of the floor. Unfortunately, he has a long period every season where he struggles with his confidence and at other times he was a distraction because he wasn't happy with his role in the offense. To be honest, he's becoming a bit of a drama-queen. When he's disengaged and not playing with effort, he's useless to the team. Also his mobility issues on defense were repeatedly exposed this season and especially during the playoffs where he averaged less than 1 block per game against the Heat.

Roy's lack of athleticism, balance, and mobility is going to keep the Pacers from taking the next step. The next step is to implement a quicker paced offense. Roy doesn't fit into that style of play. That's what got be me thinking about Javale again. There's no telling how well he'll be able to come back from the injury but I think a quicker more agile center that just focuses on playing solid defense, rebounding, and finishing with force would be an upgrade and resolve a lot of the problems the Pacers had this season on both ends of the court.

wintermute
06-10-2014, 12:12 PM
but I think a quicker more agile center that just focuses on playing solid defense, rebounding, and finishing with force would be an upgrade and resolve a lot of the problems the Pacers had this season on both ends of the court.

That may be true but I'm pretty sure that center isn't Javale McGee.

naptownmenace
06-10-2014, 12:23 PM
Like Ron White said: "You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever!"

Also, I question anyone who thinks McGee is even worth looking. Do you actually watch the games? Or just stats?

If a guy turns the ball over or makes a bad decision on the court, does that make him stupid? If so, Roy fits the profile. I don't think either of them are stupid. Saying Javale is stupid is not a fact, it's just your opinion. A fact is that Javale turns the ball over less than Roy on average and he doesn't get his shot repeatedly blocked by guys like Kyle Korver.

Yes I watch him play and I watched every Pacers game this season except for 2 regular season games when I had to work. I've never seen him play as bad as Roy played during his 6 scoreless games during the playoffs this year. His second half of the regular season was terrible as well unless you think posting averages of 8.9 points on less than 40% shooting, 4.7 rebounds, and 1.8 blocks in 28 minutes per game is something less than terrible from your starting Center. Roy's stat just confirm how bad he played when watching the games.

This is now the 3rd season in-a-row where he's had a prolonged period of time he's struggled and he's regressed when he should be improving and starting to hit his prime.

pogi
06-10-2014, 08:28 PM
If a guy turns the ball over or makes a bad decision on the court, does that make him stupid? If so, Roy fits the profile. I don't think either of them are stupid. Saying Javale is stupid is not a fact, it's just your opinion. A fact is that Javale turns the ball over less than Roy on average and he doesn't get his shot repeatedly blocked by guys like Kyle Korver.

Yes I watch him play and I watched every Pacers game this season except for 2 regular season games when I had to work. I've never seen him play as bad as Roy played during his 6 scoreless games during the playoffs this year. His second half of the regular season was terrible as well unless you think posting averages of 8.9 points on less than 40% shooting, 4.7 rebounds, and 1.8 blocks in 28 minutes per game is something less than terrible from your starting Center. Roy's stat just confirm how bad he played when watching the games.

This is now the 3rd season in-a-row where he's had a prolonged period of time he's struggled and he's regressed when he should be improving and starting to hit his prime.

And if you watched many of JaVale's games, liked you claimed, then you have seen some of the most idiotic basketball plays. You can argue with me if you like, but it won't change my mind about how I view him; considering I've seen him in game time and in highlights do some of the most extremely stupid stuff on the court. What Roy does is more lack of ability or effort. McGee is more lack of b-ball intelligence

Ratking
06-10-2014, 10:29 PM
McGee is legend in 2k14 tho

immortality
06-10-2014, 10:31 PM
The bump for this thread, just shows how many fans see stats than actually watch the games. JR Smith has similar stats to Lance and is just as annoying sometimes, lets trade JR Smith.

ksuttonjr76
06-11-2014, 08:10 AM
And if you watched many of JaVale's games, liked you claimed, then you have seen some of the most idiotic basketball plays. You can argue with me if you like, but it won't change my mind about how I view him; considering I've seen him in game time and in highlights do some of the most extremely stupid stuff on the court. What Roy does is more lack of ability or effort. McGee is more lack of b-ball intelligence

He still averages less turnovers than Hibbert even with his bonehead plays. That's the damn irony of this entire perspective. That's like calling me stupid at math, because I sometimes think 2+2=20; yet, I'm still outperforming the more "intelligent" student. That doesn't make logical sense. Plus, I think that McGee has the higher PER average.

pogi
06-11-2014, 08:24 AM
He still averages less turnovers than Hibbert even with his bonehead plays. That's the damn irony of this entire perspective. That's like calling me stupid at math, because I sometimes think 2+2=20; yet, I'm still outperforming the more "intelligent" student. That doesn't make logical sense. Plus, I think that McGee has the higher PER average.

So just because he averages less turnovers he becomes a better player than Hibbert?

I have to disagree. Even through all his faults, Hibbert still is better than McGee.

Pacer Fan
06-11-2014, 08:44 AM
Bump.

I know this is a little old and that Javale was injured this past season but I still wonder if the Pacers would be better off with a more athletic center that can consistently finish at the rim like Javale. The injury really makes it hard to tell but I'd be very interested in seeing how Javale would play if he was in the Pace lineup and how the Pacers would play offensively.LOL, Frank would be :banghead:
Frank can't find trust in his players....come on man!

naptownmenace
06-11-2014, 09:51 AM
The bump for this thread, just shows how many fans see stats than actually watch the games. JR Smith has similar stats to Lance and is just as annoying sometimes, lets trade JR Smith.

This isn't just about stats. Even when Roy has been matched up against JavaOne its been a push as far as who is better. In fact he's outplayed Roy in their head-to-head matchup several times.

Also this discussion isn't just about who is better. It started out as a discussion about which player was more worth their contract (Roy signed for about 4 million more per season) and which player would play better for the Pacers.

Secondly, I'm really down on Roy right now and think that the Pacers need a more mobile Center on defense with the ability to catch and finish in the lane. It doesn't have to be Javale McGee but an athletic center that can defend would be ideal. A guy like Miles Plumley, Mason Plumley, Robin Lopez, or Marcin Gortat would be nice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

bballpacen
06-11-2014, 01:10 PM
Is this real life?? I bet there is not a single GM out there that would even entertain the thought of trading Roy Hibbert for Javele freaking Mcgee. ..

Kid Minneapolis
06-11-2014, 01:19 PM
McGee is insanely athletic... but he's also the only guy I've ever seen airball a dunk... multiple times.

PR07
06-11-2014, 01:37 PM
If you ignored age and contract, and asked me to pick the better player, I'd pick Roy. McGee is extremely athletic, but doesn't strike me as a winning basketball player.

ksuttonjr76
06-11-2014, 02:32 PM
If you ignored age and contract, and asked me to pick the better player, I'd pick Roy. McGee is extremely athletic, but doesn't strike me as a winning basketball player.

I'll say this. Hibbert is the better player hands down....when he's engaged. The point that's being lost is that those of us who want a new center want one who will play every night to his potential and capability. We're sick and tired of Roy's yearly confidence problems. We're sick and tired of his inability to keep his position. We're sick and tired of watching our offense stalling, because we're trying to feed him the ball.

This year was the final straw that broke the camel's back for some of us. Roy is basically getting EMBARRASSED when he plays now, and his performances are swinging from one extreme to the other. Roy is making HISTORY with his bad play, yet some of us is bent out of shape because McGee has blooper highlights on a halftime show. Roy has become joke material for late night shows. How bad do you have to be to get THAT much recognition? He got blocked with AUTHORITY by Kyle freaking Korver...twice...in the same game! Then he has the audacity to throw his teammates and coach underneath the bus....

Let's be realistic. If Roy was playing great basketball, and just having bad games...there wouldn't be a single person on this board who would want to trade him. However, he's not playing great basketball, so some of us are ready to cut him loose instead of taking the risk of wasting another season on him. If you're going to be stubborn about not wanting McGee, that's cool. However, let's not pretend Roy is some great option for us.

BenR1990
06-11-2014, 02:40 PM
If you're going to be stubborn about not wanting McGee, that's cool. However, let's not pretend Roy is some great option for us.
It's got nothing to do with being stubborn. It's called having eyes and having watched a guy who arguably has had the worst basketball IQ in the league for years. I apologize for not being optimistic about us somehow getting this guy to focus when he couldn't do it once with four different coaches in a six year stretch.

ksuttonjr76
06-11-2014, 06:23 PM
It's got nothing to do with being stubborn. It's called having eyes and having watched a guy who arguably has had the worst basketball IQ in the league for years. I apologize for not being optimistic about us somehow getting this guy to focus when he couldn't do it once with four different coaches in a six year stretch.

So....what type of IQ should a non-scoring, athletic center have? No one is asking him to run the offense. No one is asking to make dime passes. No one is saying to call plays for him. As it's been said numerous times before by different posters, his job would be strictly to block shots, grab rebounds, and catch as many lobs as possible. He can do all that on pure athleticism and desire alone. Beyond that, what else do you need from him?

I want specifics...the "he has a low basketball IQ" argument without examples gets old.

PR07
06-11-2014, 06:40 PM
I'll say this. Hibbert is the better player hands down....when he's engaged. The point that's being lost is that those of us who want a new center want one who will play every night to his potential and capability. We're sick and tired of Roy's yearly confidence problems. We're sick and tired of his inability to keep his position. We're sick and tired of watching our offense stalling, because we're trying to feed him the ball.

This year was the final straw that broke the camel's back for some of us. Roy is basically getting EMBARRASSED when he plays now, and his performances are swinging from one extreme to the other. Roy is making HISTORY with his bad play, yet some of us is bent out of shape because McGee has blooper highlights on a halftime show. Roy has become joke material for late night shows. How bad do you have to be to get THAT much recognition? He got blocked with AUTHORITY by Kyle freaking Korver...twice...in the same game! Then he has the audacity to throw his teammates and coach underneath the bus....

Let's be realistic. If Roy was playing great basketball, and just having bad games...there wouldn't be a single person on this board who would want to trade him. However, he's not playing great basketball, so some of us are ready to cut him loose instead of taking the risk of wasting another season on him. If you're going to be stubborn about not wanting McGee, that's cool. However, let's not pretend Roy is some great option for us.

It's a fair point, but I still think we could do better than McGee.

BenR1990
06-11-2014, 06:45 PM
So....what type of IQ should a non-scoring, athletic center have? No one is asking him to run the offense. No one is asking to make dime passes. No one is saying to call plays for him. As it's been said numerous times before by different posters, his job would be strictly to block shots, grab rebounds, and catch as many lobs as possible. He can do all that on pure athleticism and desire alone. Beyond that, what else do you need from him?

I want specifics...the "he has a low basketball IQ" argument without examples gets old.
But he cannot do the basic things you mentioned without throwing stupid passes, missing (or not even catching) easy lobs, falling into other players, etc.

If you want examples, go to YouTube and I'm sure there are countless fan made highlight reels of Javale McGee stupidity. Your proposition sounds great in theory and would work well on a video game, but this is reality. McGee is a bumbling idiot on the basketball court and there's nothing I've seen in his six years in the league that shows he's going to change.

ksuttonjr76
06-11-2014, 07:16 PM
But he cannot do the basic things you mentioned without throwing stupid passes, missing (or not even catching) easy lobs, falling into other players, etc.

If you want examples, go to YouTube and I'm sure there are countless fan made highlight reels of Javale McGee stupidity. Your proposition sounds great in theory and would work well on a video game, but this is reality. McGee is a bumbling idiot on the basketball court and there's nothing I've seen in his six years in the league that shows he's going to change.

JaVale McGee's improving defense - Lakers at Nugg…: http://youtu.be/PRfnyBVJw5c

This video shows a lot of what I thought positively of him after watching countless McGee AND Nuggets videos. My biggest plus is his ability to recover quickly to contest and block shots after biting on fakes, dropping from the 3PT line, or closing out on shooters. Watching other videos, he's a pretty good mobile center in that he can defend smaller players on the perimeter. This will help Indiana on PNR defense, because we can take the switch and not worry about leaving our center "dead in the water" against quicker players. With Hibbert, our defense is geared towards protecting him against switches.

With our funneling defense our interior defense will improve tremendously, because McGee has a very quick, explosive first jump. Our perimeter players can start "trusting" rim protection again which could lead to a possible increase in forced turnovers on bad pases, since our players can stay at home near the 3PT line. The penetrating player has to choose whether to pass it out which could easily get intercepted by George, Hill, and Stephenson; or attempt the shot and have it sent to the bleachers by McGee. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what I saw McGee could do for this team.

ksuttonjr76
06-11-2014, 07:19 PM
It's a fair point, but I still think we could do better than McGee.

We could, but it really still boils down to our identity. What will it be for the 2014-2015 season?

bballpacen
06-11-2014, 08:50 PM
Just listen to yourself for me...

Lets try to go after JaVale McGee to replace Roy Hibbert as our defensive anchor... He moves around better...

That would give us an identity of a real dumb *** ball club... Not that Roy Hibbert is a basketball savant, but JaVale is a basketball retard to put it nicely... I think that you all need to step away from the ledge in regard to Roy, but I say this knowing full well that most of you are still falling after jumping... I am just thankful that none of you run the Pacers...

BenR1990
06-12-2014, 12:34 AM
JaVale McGee's improving defense - Lakers at Nugg…: http://youtu.be/PRfnyBVJw5c

This video shows a lot of what I thought positively of him after watching countless McGee AND Nuggets videos. My biggest plus is his ability to recover quickly to contest and block shots after biting on fakes, dropping from the 3PT line, or closing out on shooters. Watching other videos, he's a pretty good mobile center in that he can defend smaller players on the perimeter. This will help Indiana on PNR defense, because we can take the switch and not worry about leaving our center "dead in the water" against quicker players. With Hibbert, our defense is geared towards protecting him against switches.

With our funneling defense our interior defense will improve tremendously, because McGee has a very quick, explosive first jump. Our perimeter players can start "trusting" rim protection again which could lead to a possible increase in forced turnovers on bad pases, since our players can stay at home near the 3PT line. The penetrating player has to choose whether to pass it out which could easily get intercepted by George, Hill, and Stephenson; or attempt the shot and have it sent to the bleachers by McGee. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what I saw McGee could do for this team.
Sounds great. What happens though when McGee ends up doing something stupid like blowing a dunk or throwing a pass into the stands with less than a minute to go in a playoff game? Bottom line is I don't ever see myself trusting this guy on the basketball court any more than trusting that a class of Kindergarten students will behave without a teacher. I won't deny he's got incredible upside and potential, but I have no confidence he will ever be a part of a serious contending team in his career as a starter.

3rdStrike
06-12-2014, 09:17 AM
Sounds great. What happens though when McGee ends up doing something stupid like blowing a dunk or throwing a pass into the stands with less than a minute to go in a playoff game? Bottom line is I don't ever see myself trusting this guy on the basketball court any more than trusting that a class of Kindergarten students will behave without a teacher. I won't deny he's got incredible upside and potential, but I have no confidence he will ever be a part of a serious contending team in his career as a starter.



That same kind of BS was said on this very board about Lance, that he'll cost us many a playoff series.

Are you seriously asking what happens if McGee F's up, when the direct comparison is Roy Hibbert? The same guy with no hands, who won't move an inch to try and get a pass, the same guy who can be counted on for a 0 pt performance just as much as anything else? We're not comparing him to an All Star center, because Roy is not that. We're comparing him to a headcase who can't go up for a rebound, can't score and has a fatal and now easily exploitable flaw in his strongest area (defense). We have to sell, and sell fast. And if McGee is too little a return that's awesome, that means we can get another piece from Denver in the deal.


The only time I question "bball IQ" is when someone on an internet forum is questioning the "bball IQ" of a professional who has been playing the game for the majority of his life.

wintermute
06-12-2014, 09:38 AM
If you guys really think Hibbert can't perform, the solution is to get an actual competent NBA center, not Javale McGee.

The way some of you guys post, you'd think there are only 2 centers in the whole league.

Since86
06-12-2014, 10:00 AM
The only time I question "bball IQ" is when someone on an internet forum is questioning the "bball IQ" of a professional who has been playing the game for the majority of his life.

The NBA is ran a lot like Scientology. The more money you pay into your NBPA dues, the more BBall IQ they'll hand over to you.

naptownmenace
06-12-2014, 10:53 AM
If you guys really think Hibbert can't perform, the solution is to get an actual competent NBA center, not Javale McGee.

The way some of you guys post, you'd think there are only 2 centers in the whole league.

I gave a list of mobile centers that I think would fit and wouldn't pout when they don't get a lot of plays ran for them. This thread was first created 2 years ago to see if Roy's near max contract would be seen as a better deal than what Javale McGee was paid.

McGee got a 4 years for $44 Million deal.

Roy was given a 4-year $58 Million deal.

The Pacers also contacted McGee's agent at the time he and Roy were free agents to express interest if the Pacers were unable to re-sign Roy.





The Denver Nuggets have re-signed center JaVale McGee to a multiyear contract, the team announced Wednesday night.

A source told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard the two sides agreed to a four-year deal. Yahoo! Sports reported the deal was worth $44 million.

"Just signed with Denver, could not be happier! Thank you to the Kroenke family and the fans for their support," McGee tweeted Wednesday, along with a picture of him signing the contract.

The 24-year-old 7-footer averaged 11.3 points, 7.8 rebounds and 2.16 blocked shots in 61 games last year for the Washington Wizards and the Nuggets, who acquired him in the Nene deal in mid-March.

McGee had two huge games against the Los Angeles Lakers in the playoffs, prompting coach George Karl to say: "I don't think I've ever coached a guy like this. He has the moves of a 6-6 player."

More on that:


During the playoffs against the Los Angeles Lakers, Nuggets coach George Karl was asked about McGee, who had two huge games.

"I don't think I've ever coached a guy like this," said Karl, who got his first NBA head coaching job in 1984. "He has the kind of moves of a 6-6 player. The guy he kind of reminds me of a little bit is (1970s star) Connie Hawkins. There's this long, unfolding one-handed stuff. He's got a long way to go to become Connie Hawkins."

McGee was a wanted commodity. NBA.com reported the Portland Trail Blazers and Indiana Pacers were interested.

graphic-er
06-12-2014, 11:16 AM
Denver would jump all over the Mcgee for Hibbert deal, and even give us an extra player like a Evan Fournier to help make the salaries match. Pacers need that kind of player return in order to sign Lance. If they want to resign Lance then its clear that more mobile and athletic center is needed. The style of play dictates it. McGee would thrive in our system, with Lance and PG throwing alley-oops to him. He could clean the glass with our terrible shooting percentage.

graphic-er
06-12-2014, 11:17 AM
Denver would jump all over the Mcgee for Hibbert deal, and even give us an extra player like a Evan Fournier to help make the salaries match. Pacers need that kind of player return in order to sign Lance. If they want to resign Lance then its clear that more mobile and athletic center is needed. The style of play dictates it. McGee would thrive in our system, with Lance and PG throwing alley-oops to him. He could clean the glass with our terrible shooting percentage.

Robin Lopez would be a great pick up as well. I'm just not sure Portland wants to give up anything extra to make the salaries work.

Sookie
06-12-2014, 11:33 AM
The Pacers are dumb enough as it is, they don't need McGee.

I really can't believe people are serious about this. Of all the available post players, people want McGee. Really?

A team with McGee on it will never win anything.

BenR1990
06-12-2014, 11:42 AM
The only time I question "bball IQ" is when someone on an internet forum is questioning the "bball IQ" of a professional who has been playing the game for the majority of his life.
Just because someone has been doing something their entire life doesn't make them competent. I'm sure everyone has known people they've worked with that are terrible at their jobs yet have kept them for years. How dare I question the basketball IQ of a professional who has been playing the game their entire life :rolleyes: After all, it's not like athletes ever get jobs purely based on their athleticism or anything....

3rdStrike
06-12-2014, 11:45 AM
The Pacers are dumb enough as it is, they don't need McGee.

I really can't believe people are serious about this. Of all the available post players, people want McGee. Really?

A team with McGee on it will never win anything.

Dumb enough as it is? Is this more Lance bashing? Do you miss the glory days of the good ole boys with high "bball IQ" and morality in the JOB days? Do you yearn for a return to such hardwood intellectualism? And to think, the guy we've got has one post move after all these years in the league (and it's hardly an unstoppable skyhook).

McGee + Fournier (and keeping Lance) would be awesome for this team. Mahinmi is still there in case McGee struggles or for matchups where we decide we want to prioritize interior defense. He's improved a lot in that regard, and though his offense sucks so does Hibbert's.

It's the kind of deal that makes so much sense it's almost definitely not going to happen.

Since86
06-12-2014, 11:55 AM
You only get this bball IQ from playing in the NBA.

http://sinbapointforward.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/javale1.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1768728/javale-mcgee-failed-dunk-o.gif
http://thebrooklyngame.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/JAVALE-MCGEE-GOALTEND.gif

ECKrueger
06-12-2014, 12:09 PM
I certainly won't say I WANT McGee here, or that he is better than Hibbert. On the other hand having a huge athletic freak of a center would be awesome. I always see the countlee DeAndre highlights and think, damn, Roy can't even begin to think about doing that. It'd be nice to see a guy finish lobs, put backs, etc.

That said, I think McGee is dumb as **** and probably won't learn.

Oh and I'll also so I love McGee, he's fun as hell to watch. In a :laugh: way. We'd sure have some fun moments if he were here.

ksuttonjr76
06-12-2014, 12:51 PM
You only get this bball IQ from playing in the NBA.

http://sinbapointforward.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/javale1.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1768728/javale-mcgee-failed-dunk-o.gif
http://thebrooklyngame.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/JAVALE-MCGEE-GOALTEND.gif

And no other players in the NBA picks up offensive calls????? Really...that's your whole reasoning for why he has a low BBIQ???? As for the block...Dwight Howard NEVER sent a block into the stands just for the hell of it??? You have to come up with something better than that.

ksuttonjr76
06-12-2014, 12:59 PM
Sounds great. What happens though when McGee ends up doing something stupid like blowing a dunk or throwing a pass into the stands with less than a minute to go in a playoff game? Bottom line is I don't ever see myself trusting this guy on the basketball court any more than trusting that a class of Kindergarten students will behave without a teacher. I won't deny he's got incredible upside and potential, but I have no confidence he will ever be a part of a serious contending team in his career as a starter.

Didn't David West throw a bad inbound pass that costed a game to the Raptors? Oh yeah...he did!

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/raptors-rally-late-surprise-pacers-100-98-ot


During the final sequence of regulation, it was Gay's missed layup that eventually led to Johnson's tip-in to make it 90-88 with 6.2 seconds left. And when it looked as though the Pacers had the game sealed, Gay stole a bad inbounds pass from David West that led to Johnson's buzzer-beating tip-in, which stood up following a replay review and forced the already weary Pacers to play an extra 5 minutes.


Yet, we still trust West with the ball, right? Players make mistakes. That's the facts of life, and another fact is that McGee average LESS turnovers than Hibbert.

Since86
06-12-2014, 01:04 PM
And no other players in the NBA picks up offensive calls????? Really...that's your whole reasoning for why he has a low BBIQ???? As for the block...Dwight Howard NEVER sent a block into the stands just for the hell of it??? You have to come up with something better than that.

Really? Picking up the ball outside of the 3pt line and then bowling over a defender that stared at him coming from just inside the half court line is now just an offensive foul?

:laugh: It's not that he got called for a charge, it's HOW he got the charge.

And no, that's not my entire reasoning. Those are just a few, very few, examples of the utter hilarity that is JaVale McGee's decision making. I'd suggest watching a few of his games, or just searching around Youtube for a bit, because if you think these are isolated incidents, then I don't know what else to say.


Nuggets have come to know JaVale McGee as "The Great Adventure"

"JaVale McGee, by far, is the goofiest teammate I've had. He's goofiest guy in the NBA," said Nuggets forward Corey Brewer, whose previous interview was interrupted when McGee swatted a microphone and declared, in a hoarse Dikembe Mutombo voice, "Not in my house!"

"He's unpredictable," Brewer continued, "with both what will come out of his mouth and what he'll do in the game. I call him 'The Great Adventure,' because you never know what's going to happen. It's going to be an adventure either way it goes, good or bad."

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22909147/just-being-javale

naptownmenace
06-12-2014, 01:15 PM
This game can be played both ways.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qVGMo3yYfBg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-S_Ipl55IV0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/d2VVGjMYKyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dqPHAFYyR9I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

naptownmenace
06-12-2014, 01:19 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4_7XJ3ZF1-g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ksuttonjr76
06-12-2014, 01:24 PM
Really? Picking up the ball outside of the 3pt line and then bowling over a defender that stared at him coming from just inside the half court line is now just an offensive foul?

:laugh: It's not that he got called for a charge, it's HOW he got the charge.

And no, that's not my entire reasoning. Those are just a few, very few, examples of the utter hilarity that is JaVale McGee's decision making. I'd suggest watching a few of his games, or just searching around Youtube for a bit, because if you think these are isolated incidents, then I don't know what else to say.



http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22909147/just-being-javale

The original Clown Prince...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVnqv7YDQr8

ksuttonjr76
06-12-2014, 01:37 PM
If you guys really think Hibbert can't perform, the solution is to get an actual competent NBA center, not Javale McGee.

The way some of you guys post, you'd think there are only 2 centers in the whole league.

My first choice would actually be Tyson Chandler, but his injury history kinda concerns me. However, I'm looking for Indiana to become a more uptempo team if we resign Stephenson

CableKC
06-12-2014, 01:42 PM
My first choice would actually be Tyson Chandler, but his injury history kinda concerns me. However, I'm looking for Indiana to become a more uptempo team if we resign Stephenson
I don't agree with the notion of having a more uptempo offense ( cuz I don't think it is possible to have an uptempo offense and an elite level defense ).

But for the sake of discussion.....we can all agree that Hibbert should be upgraded ( for me, only if we get back a Player that makes sense and is Starting Quality ). But if JaVale and Tyson aren't options as alternatives to Hibbert....what other Centers are options for an uptempo offense?

Since86
06-12-2014, 01:42 PM
I can't watch youtuve videos at work, I'm assuming those are highlights of his good plays?

Notice I've yet to deny that McGee does come up with some spectacular athletic plays. Only a fool would deny that. But the rub is this.....you're denying that McGee has a low basketball IQ, when the entire league laughs at what he does frequently on the floor. The guy was getting less than 20mpg in Denver because they have no freaking clue what's going to happen. If you don't believe me, read the article I posted. His teammates say it, his coaches, scouts, anyone that's ever watched McGee for an extended amount of time sees it.

McGee has athletic potentional coming out of his ears. Unfortunately, it pushed out his brain first.

EDIT: And yes, I understand that's harsh with his ADD/ADHD issues, but the fact he refuses to take his medication just compounds the problem. He's a hyperactive kid in an NBA player's body. What he does on the basketball floor, with him trying to dribble full court and then throwing the ball 20ft over the backboard is something you'd see at a JR high game.

And also, I said about three months ago my secret dream was to somehow get DeAndre Jordan for Roy. This has nothing to do with wanting a different player other than Roy, and 100% about JaVale McGee.

ksuttonjr76
06-12-2014, 02:48 PM
I don't agree with the notion of having a more uptempo offense ( cuz I don't think it is possible to have an uptempo offense and an elite level defense ).

But for the sake of discussion.....we can all agree that Hibbert should be upgraded ( for me, only if we get back a Player that makes sense and is Starting Quality ). But if JaVale and Tyson aren't options as alternatives to Hibbert....what other Centers are options for an uptempo offense?

Well, beyond those two players, the number of available options falls off the cliff unless Bird can pull off a miracle trade. I have one preferred make-up for the starting 5, and three possible identities.

For the starting five, I would like to see....

3 Legit Scorers - Paul, Stephenson, West
1 Speciality Player - Depends on the identity.
1 Role Player - His role is to keep the defense honest, and contribute on offense. However, they're not considered to be a scoring threat. Hill at the 2.


I might be unique in my thinking, but I truly believe there's a such thing of having TOO many offensive threats in the starting 5. Especially when the team is running a slow pace offense and defense.


Identity # 1 (Uptempo)
Trade Hibbert for a mobile center (McGee, Chandler, Jordan, Birdman types), make Lance the PG, slide Hill to the SG, and give the offensive load to Lance, Paul, and David.

Identity # 2(Just get rid of Hibbert)
Trade Hibbert for a bruiser type center (Perkins, Nikolv, Gortat types), and same as above.

Identity #3 (We're stuck with Hibbert)
Let Stephenson walk, get a bonafide true pass-first PG (Dragic, Rondo, Miller, etc), slide Hill to the SG, and give the offensive load to Paul, David, and Roy. Also, PRAY LIKE HELL that Roy returns to form.

immortality
06-12-2014, 03:05 PM
This game can be played both ways.

None of these show how dumb Hibbert is. Look man you can argue against Hibbert all you want, but arguing, McGee is a smarter player, is ridiculous.

BenR1990
06-12-2014, 04:35 PM
This game can be played both ways.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qVGMo3yYfBg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-S_Ipl55IV0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/d2VVGjMYKyA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dqPHAFYyR9I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
You instantly lost all credibility towards your argument by using something from "First Take" :laugh:

How can anyone with a brain think that using something from that sensationalist, drama-filled trash is worthy of ANY credibility?

Tom White
06-12-2014, 05:00 PM
You instantly lost all credibility towards your argument by using something from "First Take" :laugh:

How can anyone with a brain think that using something from that sensationalist, drama-filled trash is worthy of ANY credibility?
Two of my least favorite people - Screaming A Smith and Skip Brainless.

3rdStrike
06-12-2014, 07:25 PM
You instantly lost all credibility towards your argument by using something from "First Take" :laugh:

How can anyone with a brain think that using something from that sensationalist, drama-filled trash is worthy of ANY credibility?

Says the guy who feels he's an authority on the relative IQ ("bball IQ" in this case) of someone he's never interacted with, on the following grounds:


Just because someone has been doing something their entire life doesn't make them competent. I'm sure everyone has known people they've worked with that are terrible at their jobs yet have kept them for years. How dare I question the basketball IQ of a professional who has been playing the game their entire life :rolleyes: After all, it's not like athletes ever get jobs purely based on their athleticism or anything....


There are tons of extremely athletic athletes that never made it past their rookie contract, if they even got that far. But it's usually a case of poor conditioning, poor shooting, refusal to play defense, poor attitude. This "low bball IQ" stuff is internet message board/armchair GM ********.

Yes, McGee is goofy. No, he's not going to be confused with a genius in his lifetime. But his "bball IQ" is low because he trips over himself? So when Roy Hibbert collapses with no contact involved like a fainting deer, is that a sign of low "bball IQ" ? What about when he airballs a 2 foot hook shot?

I never, ever read that particular phrase used with Danny Granger, the king of the greedy fast break pull up 3 pointer with wide open teammates. George Hill can't create a play to save his life (despite having solid handles and agility), wouldn't that be more of a sign of "bball IQ" than someone who is uncoordinated tripping over himself?

Gerald Green joined the team last season and cost us a regular season game with a really bad missed switch on defense, and he earned the dubious title of having "low bball IQ," but that didn't seem to prevent him from being an integral part of the Suns' shocking playoff push this season.

I guess I'm confused as to what the heck the mysterious "bball IQ" really means to the internet. So enlighten me, if any of you would. Does it relate to X's and O's? Is there a quiz the players take that you're reading the scores from?

BenR1990
06-12-2014, 09:26 PM
A center with a decent basketball IQ doesn't grab a rebound, dribble the length of be court, and then proceed to throw the basketball over the backboard and fall over himself. It's one thing to do something poorly while attempting to play within your position (ie: Hibbert getting blocked going up for a hook shot), but it's another thing to do something retarded like dribble the ball up the court as a center and proceed to have arguably the worst turnover of the NBA season. Too much of that type of unforced, unnecessary garbage happens with McGee. I'm done with the pissing contest, too. Guess we'll add another to the list.

graphic-er
06-12-2014, 10:22 PM
Well, beyond those two players, the number of available options falls off the cliff unless Bird can pull off a miracle trade. I have one preferred make-up for the starting 5, and three possible identities.

For the starting five, I would like to see....

3 Legit Scorers - Paul, Stephenson, West
1 Speciality Player - Depends on the identity.
1 Role Player - His role is to keep the defense honest, and contribute on offense. However, they're not considered to be a scoring threat. Hill at the 2.


I might be unique in my thinking, but I truly believe there's a such thing of having TOO many offensive threats in the starting 5. Especially when the team is running a slow pace offense and defense.


Identity # 1 (Uptempo)
Trade Hibbert for a mobile center (McGee, Chandler, Jordan, Birdman types), make Lance the PG, slide Hill to the SG, and give the offensive load to Lance, Paul, and David.

Identity # 2(Just get rid of Hibbert)
Trade Hibbert for a bruiser type center (Perkins, Nikolv, Gortat types), and same as above.

Identity #3 (We're stuck with Hibbert)
Let Stephenson walk, get a bonafide true pass-first PG (Dragic, Rondo, Miller, etc), slide Hill to the SG, and give the offensive load to Paul, David, and Roy. Also, PRAY LIKE HELL that Roy returns to form.

Great post, sums it up perfectly in my opinion. I'm just not sure Hibbert fits this teams identity anymore. He was too concerned with his touches instead of being the best defensive big man in the league, and getting his points off put backs and Eating the glass. This team needs a big guy who can give them high output in the rebounding category. Our 3 main scorers all take terrible shots on the reg. We need extra possessions. That is why the team 2 seasons ago was so smashmouth. They controlled the glass and got a ton of extra possessions.

bballpacen
06-13-2014, 03:12 AM
Great post, sums it up perfectly in my opinion. I'm just not sure Hibbert fits this teams identity anymore. He was too concerned with his touches instead of being the best defensive big man in the league, and getting his points off put backs and Eating the glass. This team needs a big guy who can give them high output in the rebounding category. Our 3 main scorers all take terrible shots on the reg. We need extra possessions. That is why the team 2 seasons ago was so smashmouth. They controlled the glass and got a ton of extra possessions.Since when do Pacer fans embrace a defensive stud that is offensively challenged?? They dont... See Brandon Rush...

So I understand to an extent why Hibbert wants to get touches, we have been dominant the past two seasons when Roy is effective with said touches...

naptownmenace
06-13-2014, 12:36 PM
I can't watch youtuve videos at work, I'm assuming those are highlights of his good plays?

No. I only posted videos detailing Roy Hibbert's mental meltdowns this season. Why comment on videos you haven't watched anyway?

I love Shaqtin' A Fool and have seen all the goofy stuff about Javale. He usually gets himself in trouble when he tries to do too much ball handling or passing which is not much unlike what Lance does from time-to-time (I'm not saying he's better than or even equal to Lance so take it easy). I'm more embarrassed by Roy's performances this year during the playoffs than anything I've ever seen Javale do.

bballpacen
06-13-2014, 12:44 PM
No. I only posted videos detailing Roy Hibbert's mental meltdowns this season. Why comment on videos you haven't watched anyway?

I love Shaqtin' A Fool and have seen all the goofy stuff about Javale. He usually gets himself in trouble when he tries to do too much ball handling or passing which is not much unlike what Lance does from time-to-time (I'm not saying he's better than or even equal to Lance so take it easy). I'm more embarrassed by Roy's performances this year during the playoffs than anything I've ever seen Javale do.

I promise you will be much more embarrassed of JaVale and his bone headed plays if he were on the Pacers... First time JaVale airballs a dunk or makes one of those boneheaded plays in the playoffs, this board would riot...

Since86
06-13-2014, 12:46 PM
I love Shaqtin' A Fool and have seen all the goofy stuff about Javale. He usually gets himself in trouble when he tries to do too much ball handling or passing which is not much unlike what Lance does from time-to-time (I'm not saying he's better than or even equal to Lance so take it easy). I'm more embarrassed by Roy's performances this year during the playoffs than anything I've ever seen Javale do.

I'd imagine the fact that Roy plays for your favorite team while McGee does not, probably has something to do with that.

And to clear some of the bball IQ questions, yes, McGee has a low bball IQ because trips over himself. That's exactly what it bball IQ means, coordination.

naptownmenace
06-13-2014, 12:58 PM
I'd imagine the fact that Roy plays for your favorite team while McGee does not, probably has something to do with that.
The Nuggets were my 2nd favorite team prior to this past season. I'm a big fan of Ty Lawson, Andre Miller, Corey Brewer, and Gallinari. I'm sure I've watched more Nuggets games than most on this board.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Since86
06-13-2014, 01:05 PM
Do you have the same emotional attachment to the Nuggets as the Pacers? My second favorite team is OKC, and the difference between my feelings when I watch the Pacers the and the Thunder is pretty significantly different.

naptownmenace
06-13-2014, 01:31 PM
And to clear some of the bball IQ questions, yes, McGee has a low bball IQ because trips over himself. That's exactly what it bball IQ means, coordination.

I hope you're joking. That's a terrible description of what bball IQ is because if that's the case Roy has a lower bball IQ. No one falls down, trips over himself, or loses his balance more than Roy Hibbert during the course of a game. Did you know that there is actually a drinking game based around Roy falling down?

Here's video Proof of Roy falling down for no reason.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/lfmekZhikAQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Obviously just because a player falls doesn't mean he has low basketball IQ. It just means they're clumsy or have an issue with their balance. I don't think Roy or Javale have a low basketball IQ. Roy lacks balance but he has the knowledge to play the game. Javale doesn't lack balance or athleticism and he knows how to play the game as well. He's fine as long as he remembers he's not a point guard and shouldn't be bringing the ball up the court or trying to make fancy passes.

By the way, just because he fell down once during a Pacers game 2 years ago trying to do something he is not good at doesn't make him a clumsy or dumb player. He did wind up with 20 points, 8 rebounds, and +17 in 30 minutes that game. The Nuggets also won the game.

He spent last offseason working with Hakeem and as you can see in this video, he's not uncoordinated. At the very least he's working to improve his footwork and post game.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FsfLNLkHthw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Since86
06-13-2014, 02:14 PM
I was definitely joking. 3rdStrike some how seems to think that low bball IQ is somehow tied into McGee tripping over himself.

naptownmenace
06-13-2014, 02:44 PM
:):)
I was definitely joking. 3rdStrike some how seems to think that low bball IQ is somehow tied into McGee tripping over himself.
Whew! Thanks. I was a little worried for a minute.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

graphic-er
06-13-2014, 04:55 PM
So both McGee and Amare have worked out with Hakeem. WTF Hibbert? Where you at?

Since86
06-13-2014, 05:00 PM
So both McGee and Amare have worked out with Hakeem. WTF Hibbert? Where you at?

Working out with Tim Duncan and prior to that Bill Walton. It's not like Hakeem is the only HOF big man out there that works with other big men.

able
06-13-2014, 05:19 PM
we get it. some of you dont like Hibbert anymore, however, in 80% of the games (playoffs) he got 9 or more offensive touches we won, in 80% where he got less than 9 touches we lost.

I know it wont make you think different, but just wanted to share that little piece of trivia

Tom White
06-13-2014, 05:37 PM
we get it. some of you dont like Hibbert anymore, however, in 80% of the games (playoffs) he got 9 or more offensive touches we won, in 80% where he got less than 9 touches we lost.

I know it wont make you think different, but just wanted to share that little piece of trivia
How do the win-loss records stack up with his rebounding numbers? Similar? What was the opponent in those 9+ touch games?

One simple stat doesn't tell the whole story. What were the correlating numbers for his team mates that may have contributed as much to the won/loss records. Bread can be sliced many ways you know.

naptownmenace
06-16-2014, 05:02 PM
we get it. some of you dont like Hibbert anymore, however, in 80% of the games (playoffs) he got 9 or more offensive touches we won, in 80% where he got less than 9 touches we lost.

I know it wont make you think different, but just wanted to share that little piece of trivia

That's a good point. However those numbers overlook the fact that he started pouting and throwing his teammates and coach under the bus when he didn't get his touches. His defensive focus, rebounding, and energy went out the window when he didn't get his offensive touches. I think that's a bigger reason the Pacers lost 80% of the games he didn't get 9 or more shots attempts.