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View Full Version : Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?



naptownmenace
07-03-2012, 05:44 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8125605/indiana-pacers-george-hill-agree-5-year-deal-report-says

If the Pacers decide not to match Portland's offer, the Pacers will pursue New Orleans free-agent center Chris Kaman and Denver's JaVale McGee, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.


I'd be fine with that. I know JaVale has basketball IQ issues but after his trade to Denver, where he received good coaching and played with mature players for the first time in his career, he produced very well.


2011-12 STATS

PPG - 11.3
RPG - 7.8
FG% - .556
APG - 0.5
BLKPG - 2.16
STLPG - 0.57

Regardless of whether or not the Pacers match or if they make an offer to JaVale whether Denver would match, who has the greater upside/potential? I doubt he'll ever be a 20 ppg scorer but I doubt Hibbert will be either. I really think that JaVale could develop into a Tyson Chandler type of Center. What's Hibbert's ceiling? How close is he to it now?

I really don't have any idea.

Kstat
07-03-2012, 05:45 PM
...is this a joke? McGee isnt even an effective starter. His time in both Washington and Denver proved that.

Kaman is a proven starter, but like McGee he is a plus player on only one side of the floor. His age and health are also a concern.

croz24
07-03-2012, 05:46 PM
Forget the stats, have you ever seen McGee play? Might be the dumbest "basketball player" I've ever seen.

OlBlu
07-03-2012, 05:51 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8125605/indiana-pacers-george-hill-agree-5-year-deal-report-says



I'd be fine with that. I know JaVale has basketball IQ issues but after his trade to Denver, where he received good coaching and played with mature players for the first time in his career, he produced very well.


2011-12 STATS

PPG - 11.3
RPG - 7.8
FG% - .556
APG - 0.5
BLKPG - 2.16
STLPG - 0.57

Regardless of whether or not the Pacers match or if they make an offer to JaVale whether Denver would match, who has the greater upside/potential? I doubt he'll ever be a 20 ppg scorer but I doubt Hibbert will be either. I really think that JaVale could develop into a Tyson Chandler type of Center. What's Hibbert's ceiling? How close is he to it now?

I really don't have any idea.

You must be kidding. Hibbert is at another level from JaVale..........:cool:

CableKC
07-03-2012, 05:51 PM
I'd take Kaman at a cheaper rate so that we can have $$$ left over to go after other Players.

PR07
07-03-2012, 06:01 PM
Hibbert, easily.

ECKrueger
07-03-2012, 06:05 PM
Would you rather...

Sign McGee and lose Hibbert or have every thread on here be about Hibbert and/or Gordon for the whole season?

Sandman21
07-03-2012, 06:06 PM
Hibbert.

And Just say NO to Kaman! (at least until Hibbert is locked in as a Pacer)

LoneGranger33
07-03-2012, 06:09 PM
If we lose Hibbert and JaVale is open to a contract under 10 million per, I'd guess I'd consider it. Would probably have to move to a more perimeter-oriented style though.

Sandman21
07-03-2012, 06:14 PM
Would you rather...

Sign McGee and lose Hibbert or have every thread on here be about Hibbert and/or Gordon for the whole season?

Either way, we'll have half the threads on here be about Gordon for the whole season. We could somehow sign him without losing PG and half the threads here will STILL be about Gordon, 100% after the inevitable injury causes missed time.

naptownmenace
07-03-2012, 06:19 PM
I'll admit, I chose a gotcha styled titled to get you to look at this thread. I know Hibbert is the better player now but will he be in 2-3 years. I still see potential in JaVale. He's working with Hakeem this summer and can still develop his offensive game. He's only 23 years old.

He had a 21 points and 14 rebounds game against the Lakers during the playoffs. He had another 14 rebound game and a 15 rebound game in that 7 game series. In fact, I think he played a big role in extending the series to 7 games against the Lakers.

vnzla81
07-03-2012, 06:22 PM
I'm intrigued by player A but I still like player B better, player C wouldn't be a bad choice either, now if we can somehow have players A+B+C together I'm listening but we would probably have to trade player Z, player A is a nice player though but I'm not 100% sure about him.




Kstas bait ;)

Pace Maker
07-03-2012, 06:26 PM
Javale isn't quite as bad as people think, obviously he has some BBIQ issues and is very raw, but he has a lot of potential. Wouldn't be a terrible addition for the right price.

That said, he is no where near Hibbert.

PacersHomer
07-03-2012, 06:27 PM
Oh my God if we sign McGee and let Hibbert walk I will throw a huge fit.

ChristianDudley
07-03-2012, 06:30 PM
Hmm...who was an All-Star this past season? Definitely not JaVale...

ColeTheMole
07-03-2012, 06:31 PM
In the way that ESPN makes players who provide "highlights" seem better than they actually are, ESPN makes Javale Mcgee seem worse than he actually is because of his "lowlights".

Wage
07-03-2012, 06:39 PM
...is this a joke? McGee isnt even an effective starter. His time in both Washington and Denver proved that.

Kaman is a proven starter, but like McGee he is a plus player on only one side of the floor. His age and health are also a concern.

I prefer Hibbert over both McGee and Kaman, but people need to stop pretending he is a great defender. He blocks a couple shots per game because he is the tallest guy on the court, but he is slow to rotate, does not hold position very well, and falls down every time a guard gets near him. He's basically Shawn Bradley minus 4 inches.

billbradley
07-03-2012, 06:40 PM
The ONLY thing McGee does better than Hibby is how he goes up with ball much quicker, doesn't hesitate.

But McGee's Game 5 performance versus the Lakers may still be fresh in mind.

mattie
07-03-2012, 06:42 PM
I'd be all about losing Roy if we could steal JaVale. JaVale has got a lot of talent and with good coaching will be a very good player.

Pacer Fan
07-03-2012, 06:48 PM
If Javale and Kaman could be had for 9 mil each, I'd take them both over Roy. 1 on 1 has to go to Roy without a doubt.

On a side note: I wouldn't be hating Javale if Pacers picked him up. I'd love to see Javale and Cousins play here. Would be exciting. :)

cdash
07-03-2012, 06:51 PM
If we sign JaVale McGee, I quickly jump on the "**** it, let's start Plumlee" bandwagon. I cannot root for that dude.

Roaming Gnome
07-03-2012, 06:56 PM
Tragic Bronson... No thanks!!!

gummy
07-03-2012, 06:58 PM
Javale isn't quite as bad as people think, obviously he has some BBIQ issues and is very raw, but he has a lot of potential. Wouldn't be a terrible addition for the right price.

That said, he is no where near Hibbert.

His BB IQ issues put a cap on his potential. How much can you really get better when you don't understand the game on some fundamental levels (and if you don't by now...)?

I don't want him. Would rather have Kaman if it comes to that.

Pacer Fan
07-03-2012, 06:59 PM
The ONLY thingS McGee does better than Hibby is how he goes up with ball extremely quicker, doesn't hesitate and has much quicker feet and runs the floor much faster and has more then 2 post moves that doesn't result in just hook shots because he is so much quicker on his feet he can beat his man straight up. How Javale can pick up help defense so much quicker and can play in and out cause he can actually move his feet. How he is a year younger then Roy and was deprived from good coaching with the generals.

But McGee's Game 5 performance versus the Lakers may still be fresh in mind.

Fixed

billbradley
07-03-2012, 06:59 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YDqQuB_aPak" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

billbradley
07-03-2012, 07:01 PM
Fixed

I mean yeah, I agree with most of that, it's just Hibbert is drastically better at being a basketball player.

PacersHomer
07-03-2012, 07:08 PM
Javale McGee (aka Pierre) is absolutely hilarious on Twitter though. I like him because he's funny and an okay center, but he is so damn stupid.

BringJackBack
07-03-2012, 07:09 PM
The worst player possible to replace Roy with is Javale... :laugh:

Pacer Fan
07-03-2012, 07:10 PM
:laugh:

ilive4sports
07-03-2012, 07:12 PM
Now wait, JaVale might help bring the fans back. He provides great entertainment. Indy will be buzzing with "I wonder what JaVale will do next game."

Speed
07-03-2012, 07:25 PM
I'm a big McGee guy, he could be one of the top centers in the game if he quits being a knucklehead. People are sleeping on his potential, he has a very very very high ceiling.

Also, the op tweet said Kaman AND McGee, does that mean both?

cdash
07-03-2012, 07:30 PM
I'm a big McGee guy, he could be one of the top centers in the game if he quits being a knucklehead. People are sleeping on his potential, he has a very very very high ceiling.


Yes he does, and there is almost no chance he ever reaches that ceiling because he is, in fact, a total idiot on the basketball court.

ECKrueger
07-03-2012, 07:33 PM
I'm a big McGee guy, he could be one of the top centers in the game if he quits being a knucklehead. People are sleeping on his potential, he has a very very very high ceiling.

Also, the op tweet said Kaman AND McGee, does that mean both?

Well, that IS the definition of and... :P

I'm guessing it means they'll go after both and get whichever makes more sense.

Lance George
07-03-2012, 07:36 PM
He had a 21 points and 14 rebounds game against the Lakers during the playoffs. He had another 14 rebound game and a 15 rebound game in that 7 game series. In fact, I think he played a big role in extending the series to 7 games against the Lakers.

Yep. He's much better than people are giving him credit for.

http://bkref.com/tiny/wfMau

If we wanna get technical, Javale scored more points per-minute than Roy, did it more efficiently (TS%: .539 vs. 552; eFG%: .497 vs. .556), pulled down more rebounds per-minute, and blocked more shots per-minute. He also had a terrific postseason showing again the Lakers.

It's become trendy to belittle McGee, thus, most people do it, but no one in their right mind can deny that he's a very productive basketball player. Although he can't admit it, lest his hypocrisy be exposed, McGee provides exactly the type of production that Kstat is dreaming of Andre Drummond giving Detroit in the future -- efficient scoring, big time rebounding, and a bunch of blocked shots.

I'd happily take him at $10M per-season. I'm sure Denver would match that, though.

By the way, Denver had a superior winning percentage with McGee than with Nene.

Denver, w/ Nene: 16-12 (.571)
Denver, w/ McGee: 13-7 (.650)

Although, to be fair, Washington had a far superior record with Nene. It looks like a win/win trade, although give me the 24-year-old over the 29-year-old going forward.

RLeWorm
07-03-2012, 07:39 PM
Plumlee>Mcgee....actually idk they both kind of suck

Justin Tyme
07-03-2012, 07:44 PM
Wasn't JaVale the player who said previous to being traded to Denver he wanted a new contract at 14 mil? If so, I highly doubt he's changed his mind. You can bet your sweet bippie Denver isn't going to give JaVale a 14 mil contract. If he could be gotten for 8-9 mil, you'd have to consider him if the Pacers choose not to re-sign Hibbert. Take the 5-6 mil and use it towards picking up another FA.

Since people are throwing out controversial names, you can probably pick up Blatche from the Wiz at 8 mil. He can play both the 4 & 5.

I want Hibbert back, but not at some ridiculous salary. There are other options out there, just not Hibbertesque. The front office might decide not to match and just get a plug the dam type player for this year to see how things sake out.

Another name to consifer is Robin Lopez who is a RFA... offer him 6-7 mil. Maybe he bites and the Suns don't match since they have Gortat. Please no Herb won't go after RFA spiel. I believe it's been determined he'd be willing, just won't get in a bidding war for a RFA like Gordon.

Speed
07-03-2012, 07:46 PM
People are seeing a different player than I am, he's looked very very good, when I've seen him. I need to go see Roy and McGee's head to head, but it seemed like Roy struggled against him. What is it that people don't like about his game? Guys has about every physical attribute you'd hope for in a center.

LA_Confidential
07-03-2012, 07:54 PM
I could have sworn I heard somewhere that McGee is looking for 14mill a yr. I don't see how he could even be considered an option to replace Roy. This has to be nothing more than posturing. If the FO is seriously considering not matching, theyI'll be Pritch Slapping themselves.

wtelfair
07-03-2012, 07:56 PM
If we lose Hibbert and JaVale is open to a contract under 10 million per, I'd guess I'd consider it. Would probably have to move to a more perimeter-oriented style though.

Good thing some people on this forum are just bulletin board posters and not general managers. OMG!

mattie
07-03-2012, 08:19 PM
Yep. He's much better than people are giving him credit for.

http://bkref.com/tiny/wfMau

If we wanna get technical, Javale scored more points per-minute than Roy, did it more efficiently (TS%: .539 vs. 552; eFG%: .497 vs. .556), pulled down more rebounds per-minute, and blocked more shots per-minute. He also had a terrific postseason showing again the Lakers.

It's become trendy to belittle McGee, thus, most people do it, but no one in their right mind can deny that he's a very productive basketball player. Although he can't admit it, lest his hypocrisy be exposed, McGee provides exactly the type of production that Kstat is dreaming of Andre Drummond giving Detroit in the future -- efficient scoring, big time rebounding, and a bunch of blocked shots.

I'd happily take him at $10M per-season. I'm sure Denver would match that, though.

By the way, Denver had a superior winning percentage with McGee than with Nene.

Denver, w/ Nene: 16-12 (.571)
Denver, w/ McGee: 13-7 (.650)

Although, to be fair, Washington had a far superior record with Nene. It looks like a win/win trade, although give me the 24-year-old over the 29-year-old going forward.

Exactly. It's trendy.

The new thing is laughing at how dumb McGee supposedly is. He's very talented however, although he is ADHD like on the court sometimes. But most of the time he's rebounding well, playing good defense and scoring efficiently. (great cuts to the basket and put backs)

I'd love to have JaVale. But then again I don't base my opinons on players off of ******** narratives created by ESPN. :)

Pacer Fan
07-03-2012, 08:20 PM
How bout Resign Roy.
Sign Javale.
Trade DWest, DC and 2 future draft picks for Rondo.
Then we can go kick some serious A S S!

Hibbert / Plumlee
McGee / Hans
Granger / George
George / Hill
Rondo / Hill

naptownmenace
07-03-2012, 08:24 PM
I really do think he'll be as good as or better than Tyson Chandler and he has the potential to be better than Roy Hibbert.

Javale is a much better finisher around the Rim than Roy will ever be. He doesn't get knocked to the floor 7 times a game either.

naptownmenace
11-19-2012, 03:40 PM
:bump:

Javale McGee
2012-13 Season
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
11.1 6.1 1.9 25.13 in 19.6 minutes per game.

Roy Hibbert
2012-13 Season
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
8.5 8.0 2.4 12.08 in 28.8 minutes per game.

So far through 10 games for both Roy and Javale, I know which guy I'd rather have. It's a long season though. Let's revisit this every 10 games or so.

Derek2k3
11-19-2012, 03:52 PM
:bump:

Javale McGee
2012-13 Season
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
11.1 6.1 1.9 25.13 in 19.6 minutes per game.

Roy Hibbert
2012-13 Season
PPG RPG BLKPG PER
8.5 8.0 2.4 12.08 in 28.8 minutes per game.

So far through 10 games for both Roy and Javale, I know which guy I'd rather have. It's a long season though. Let's revisit this every 10 games or so.

As soon as I saw this thread bumped, I got sad.

naptownmenace
11-19-2012, 04:18 PM
As soon as I saw this thread bumped, I got sad.

You had to know it was coming. I'm not making any final judgments. I plan on watching this situation carefully all season long to see who got the better deal.

BlueNGold
11-19-2012, 06:24 PM
Teams are collapsing on Hibbert and focusing the defense on stopping him. Nobody is doing that with McGee. If teams guarded Hibbert like they guard McGee, they'd be giving up 30ppg to Roy every night.

Dece
11-19-2012, 06:39 PM
Has Hibbert even scored 30 points in any game for his career? I sort of doubt it. Hibbert will never be even a 20 PPG scorer. I'd be thrilled if he hit 15.

gummy
11-19-2012, 10:10 PM
Has Hibbert even scored 30 points in any game for his career? I sort of doubt it. Hibbert will never be even a 20 PPG scorer. I'd be thrilled if he hit 15.

Yes, once.

30 vs. New Orleans 02/21/12

Speed
11-19-2012, 10:30 PM
McGee and Hawes were two guys I would have went after if they wouldn't have signed Roy. It'll be interesting to see if George Karl will play McGee more minutes as the season goes on. You can see by his PER he is crazy impactful in only 19.6 mins a game.

wintermute
11-19-2012, 10:38 PM
McGee can't even start over Kosta Koufus. He's fine as a backup, but Wiz fans and Nugget fans know just how many bone-headed plays McGee will get into if given enough playing time.

Btw, I'll bet Hibbert's offense would look tons better too if he's playing with Andre Miller all the time...

naptownmenace
12-08-2012, 09:42 PM
I said I was going to bump this after every 10 games. it just so happens that the 20th game of the season was against the Nuggets and Roy and JaVale got to go head to head quite a bit. Well, Roy's defense has been solid despite his abysmal offense.

JaVale has been pretty consistent though. He still seems to do one goofy thing per game but I consider Roy's multiple point blank misses and bad passes are worse.

Head to head last night I have to give the nod to JaVale and that really really bothers me.

jeffg-body
12-08-2012, 10:49 PM
Roy is still the guy I would want regardless of his offensive scoring slump. His defensive play is still top notch and he will break out of his scoring slump soon enough. I see it as much as an absence of Danny that affords the defense to sag at times and take Roy out of the game offensively.

CableKC
12-08-2012, 10:58 PM
I choose Roy over Javale. This Team already has enough low IQ Basketball Players....I don't want to decrease the overall Basketball IQ of the Team any more than it is.

BlueCollarColts
12-08-2012, 11:04 PM
still Roy, he is still a top 5 defensive center in the NBA, his shot will come around

BlueNGold
12-08-2012, 11:07 PM
This year's Hibbert? Clearly McGee. The answer all depends on how Roy plays going forward.

I would probably go with McGee.

Alabama-Redneck
12-08-2012, 11:22 PM
You already have one McGee on the team in Green, why would you want two? Someone that can jump through the roof but that is it. Just saying....

:cool:

Hicks
12-08-2012, 11:38 PM
I said I was going to bump this after every 10 games. it just so happens that the 20th game of the season was against the Nuggets and Roy and JaVale got to go head to head quite a bit. Well, Roy's defense has been solid despite his abysmal offense.

JaVale has been pretty consistent though. He still seems to do one goofy thing per game but I consider Roy's multiple point blank misses and bad passes are worse.

Head to head last night I have to give the nod to JaVale and that really really bothers me.

I think calling Roy's defense 'solid' is selling it very short.

Dece
12-09-2012, 12:11 AM
I'm sure I'd throw some stuff at the screen for McGee's play, but watching the worst offensive play I've ever seen from a starting center has caused me to do the same... I guess at the end of the day I'll take the guy who shot 9/9... McGee isn't a complete zero on the defensive side the way Hibbert is on the offensive end.

CableKC
12-09-2012, 12:31 AM
I'm sure I'd throw some stuff at the screen for McGee's play, but watching the worst offensive play I've ever seen from a starting center has caused me to do the same... I guess at the end of the day I'll take the guy who shot 9/9... McGee isn't a complete zero on the defensive side the way Hibbert is on the offensive end.
I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back :pray: whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

BlueNGold
12-09-2012, 08:19 AM
You already have one McGee on the team in Green, why would you want two? Someone that can jump through the roof but that is it. Just saying....

:cool:

McGee does not have the bball IQ that Roy has...so I agree. I also hope Roy gets it together. But McGee is two years younger than Roy, shoots for a much, much higher percentage and produces far more offense per minute played. He may even learn how to play basketball in time.

Edit: Take some time to look at McGee's offensive stats. He's doing a lot better than Roy and it didn't start this year. At the same time, Roy is a great defensive force. So, it's pretty close.

naptownmenace
12-09-2012, 10:46 AM
I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back :pray: whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

Javale made one boneheaded play but the rest of the game he was solid on both ends of the floor. He's a much better finisher around the basket and he still blocks/challenges shots and grabs you around 10 boards per 36 minutes. The Pacers game was the first time he played 30 minutes this year and all he did was drop 20 points along with 8 boards.

The key is that he's getting paid a lot less than Roy and with Javale I see him continuing to improve.

vnzla81
12-09-2012, 10:53 AM
I'm more inclined to believe that Roy's offensive game would come back :pray: whereas stupid basketball Players will always be stupid basketball players.

I pick Hibbert over McGee but regarding to what you are saying I'm not sure how high Roy's BB IQ is, he probably makes as many stupid plays as Mcgee per game but because Mcgee is such a goofy looking guy he gets the low BB IQ tag.

Slick Pinkham
12-09-2012, 10:54 AM
I can accept that McGee is A better overall athlete, but has a low basketball IQ and has a history of being less than an all-in team player. I'm fine with Roy, though I am beginning to think we overpaid (though we were forced to do so).

Sollozzo
12-09-2012, 10:57 AM
I'm fine with Roy, though I am beginning to think we overpaid (though we were forced to do so).


Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.

Hicks
12-09-2012, 11:10 AM
Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.

How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

Sollozzo
12-09-2012, 11:17 AM
How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

I don't think that expecting a max player to average around 15 PPG is too much to ask for. Dipping from 12.8 PPG to 9.8 with a FG% of 10% less than last year is extremely disappointing. Obviously scoring the ball is just one aspect of the game, and thankfully Roy still has a massive defensive presence and tremendous rebounding skills. But I really don't think that hoping for Smits-like offensive production in the prime of his career is expecting too much. It will be very disappointing, IMHO, if his offensive game doesn't improve as he hits the prime of his career.

Cousy47
12-09-2012, 11:28 AM
Yeah, damned if you do damned if you don't. We overpaid, but we couldn't afford to get rid of a 26 year old center who showed improvement in each of his first four seasons. We had to pay him based on the upward trajectory he showed. It's all on him now though to continue to make substantial improvements. It will be extremely disappointing if he doesn't get better as he hits his late 20's.
Sadly, it's not on him. It's also up to us to make a team around him if he is to be our center piece. We have failed to do that so far. We did not "have" to pay him when the season ended last year. We could have matched the Portland offer as part of a trade. We could have let him walk to Portland and been a big money player in the FA market. We could have gotten in the D. Horward bidding/trade contest for a year. We could have done lots of things, but we did what the Pacers always do. We fall in love with our players and over estimate their worth like they are part of the family rather than an asset in a business that is always changing. I think we will overpay for West, overpay to keep Tyler and nake no movve to trade for assets we need at the end of this season. But that's okay, the family love atttitude is part of the reason I and probably most of the fan base are Pacer fans.

Justin Tyme
12-09-2012, 11:42 AM
I'd rather have Hibbert at around 4 mil less in salary. Unfortunately, that's just wishful thinking.

Portland spent their money on re-signing Batum and that isn't looking real good right now. Just think they could have gotten Hibbert at a max and re-signed Batum, and not be much better as a team than they are right now with how both are playing.

BlueNGold
12-09-2012, 11:57 AM
Sadly, it's not on him. It's also up to us to make a team around him if he is to be our center piece. We have failed to do that so far.

Good post otherwise, but I think we did add pieces around Roy. George Hill and David West are solid players and produce nightly. Paul George is "emerging". We have the talent around him and considering he's by far the highest paid player active on the Pacers, he should be the stud. He's not been that. Hibbert is not playing as well as he did last year. He's taken a step backward rather than forward. We should be able to expect improvement over last year, but the opposite happened. At the same time, I am hopeful he will start playing better. We've all seen that from him. Slumps, then he starts playing like Tim Duncan.

Trophy
12-09-2012, 12:12 PM
Roy is a much better overall center than McGee is.

If given Hibbert and McGee to choose from for your future center, you'd be crazy to think McGee is your franchise player. A good backup, yes. A good starting center, no.

I know he had a big game against us :woohoo:, but you give him in the ball in the post and he'll throw up some awful shots. He's not a smart player either.

Look at some clips of him. He makes some awful decisions and not play in the post like most top 10 centers can do.

Roy, who is in an offensive slump, is probably one of the best defensive big men in the league. His defense will lead to the offensive game that was there last year sooner of later. It seems like some people aren't even watching the games and are pissing and whining, saying Roy is doing nothing and is useless.

I also feel like pessimism/optimism often gets in the way of logic and some people's remarks sound ridiculous.

Dece
12-09-2012, 12:29 PM
Throw up some awful shots? Like every shot Hibbert has taken this year? Listen, make any argument you want, but DO NOT make the argument that we'd regret the swap offensively. One guy is shooting 58% from the floor, and the other is shooting 38%. That has to be the largest fg% comparison gap I've ever seen. 20%!? Are you serious?

vnzla81
12-09-2012, 12:49 PM
Throw up some awful shots? Like every shot Hibbert has taken this year? Listen, make any argument you want, but DO NOT make the argument that we'd regret the swap offensively. One guy is shooting 58% from the floor, and the other is shooting 38%. That has to be the largest fg% comparison gap I've ever seen. 20%!? Are you serious?

I feel the same way, Hibbert throws some crap shots too but he doesn't get as high as McGee so people don't notice it as much, they both make stupid mistakes too, the only reason I take Hibbert over McGee is because I think he is a better defender and a better passer nothing else.

Hicks
12-09-2012, 01:41 PM
I don't think that expecting a max player to average around 15 PPG is too much to ask for. Dipping from 12.8 PPG to 9.8 with a FG% of 10% less than last year is extremely disappointing. Obviously scoring the ball is just one aspect of the game, and thankfully Roy still has a massive defensive presence and tremendous rebounding skills. But I really don't think that hoping for Smits-like offensive production in the prime of his career is expecting too much. It will be very disappointing, IMHO, if his offensive game doesn't improve as he hits the prime of his career.

But you said you wanted to see him improve, which to me means add things he didn't already have. It seems, in fact, you're just wanting him to shoot a good FG%.

Peck
12-09-2012, 02:50 PM
I think the fact that McGee backs up Kosta Kofus says it all.

Roy will be a starting center in the NBA for a long time to come (barring injury) probably a decade or more & McGee can't even start right now over Kosta Kofus.

vnzla81
12-09-2012, 03:14 PM
I think the fact that McGee backs up Kosta Kofus says it all.

Roy will be a starting center in the NBA for a long time to come (barring injury) probably a decade or more & McGee can't even start right now over Kosta Kofus.

McGee is not starting because George Karl doesn't want to play Faried and McGee together not because McGee is not good.

Derek2k3
12-09-2012, 09:31 PM
How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

While I get what you're saying...Roy got his contract based on his 2011 play and the assumption he'd be as good or better.

He's been incredibly worse. Does he even have 1 game of better than 50% shooting?

He's shooting in the mid 30's, missing layups and tip's, turning it over...his defense has been sensational, but he's a massive negative force offensively. How incredible does he have to be defensively to offset his absurdly bad offense (so far)?

Right now, they're both playing like $5M-$8M guys. I assume Hibbert will be better...but at this exact moment give me Javale. At least he wont take 12 shots a game and miss 9.

naptownmenace
12-09-2012, 11:20 PM
I think the fact that McGee backs up Kosta Kofus says it all.

Roy will be a starting center in the NBA for a long time to come (barring injury) probably a decade or more & McGee can't even start right now over Kosta Kofus.

The same Kosta kofus that played Roy to a standstill at times? He's a good Center as well. The real reason George Karl brings JaVale off the bench is so he can play alongside Andre Miller. He said as much at the beginning of the season.

Wage
12-09-2012, 11:55 PM
How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

I know you didn't ask me, but I will take a shot at this anyway. I was skeptical about signing Roy to his current contract in the first place, but felt that so long as he continued to improve he would have a chance of living up to his contract. As far as improvements go, first I think a face up game is absolutely mandatory for Roy to develop. He's not strong enough to hold post position for long, so he really needs the ability to keep defenses honest from a little farther out. It would be nice if he could develop a few more post moves as well. He has become so predictable in the post that defenders just push him off his spot and watch him throw up a wildly inaccurate baby hook.

Wage
12-10-2012, 12:02 AM
and falls down every time a guard gets near him.

...I made myself sad after seeing that Westbrook block. :(

Eleazar
12-10-2012, 01:32 AM
Does he even have 1 game of better than 50% shooting?

He has shot 50% or better in 5 games.


I know you didn't ask me, but I will take a shot at this anyway. I was skeptical about signing Roy to his current contract in the first place, but felt that so long as he continued to improve he would have a chance of living up to his contract. As far as improvements go, first I think a face up game is absolutely mandatory for Roy to develop. He's not strong enough to hold post position for long, so he really needs the ability to keep defenses honest from a little farther out. It would be nice if he could develop a few more post moves as well. He has become so predictable in the post that defenders just push him off his spot and watch him throw up a wildly inaccurate baby hook.

Roy has developed a little bit of a face up game. Not much of one, but he is hitting the 15 footer with some consistency when open.

naptownmenace
12-10-2012, 11:39 AM
I'm really eager to see what the next 9 games show us. I'll be sure to update this after game #30.

However, at this point we should all agree that it's inexcusable for a 7'2" Center that takes the majority of his shots from within 10 feet to shoot less than 45%. I expect all Centers to shoot at least 50% especially one that is as big as Roy Hibbert.

Derek2k3
12-10-2012, 11:57 AM
He has shot 50% or better in 5 games.

Thanks, E.