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View Full Version : Are the Pacers the Atlanta Hawks 2.0 if Hibbert comes back?



rousea24
07-02-2012, 11:00 PM
I'm not going to claim credit for this "analogy" as someone else came up with it in the big Hibbert thread. I don't disagree that the Pacers will face a backlash if Hibbert is not retained. My personal opinion is that he's not worth anywhere near a max contract, but they're kind of screwed either way and I think they have no choice but to keep him. I don't think Simon/Walsh/Pritchard will have the balls not to match the offer sheet if it's signed.

Back to the question though....is a nucleus of Hill-George-Granger-West-Hibbert going to get us any further than the second round anytime in the next 4-5 years?

PacersHomer
07-02-2012, 11:01 PM
No contract will be as much as Johnson's, Granger is a better SF than the Hawks have had over the past decade, George's potential is what the team will be banking on as well as coaching.

This is what happens when you never get a pick higher than 10.

ECKrueger
07-02-2012, 11:12 PM
I was thinking about starting a thread comparing us to the Pittsburgh Pirates. I think may be like them. What do you guys think?

Green

Really?
07-02-2012, 11:13 PM
Just depends on how the guys on our team develop.

aamcguy
07-02-2012, 11:14 PM
We have a less selfish system, are a very big and athletic team, and our players (mostly, but at least our bigs) play in their "correct" position. Horford starts at center but is a PF, Smith is really a SF playing as a PF, Johnson has some very SF tendencies. I think that, combined with injuries cost them. Because of our size and defensive capabilities, I think we can be better than the Hawks were.

Really?
07-02-2012, 11:15 PM
I was thinking about starting a thread comparing us to the Pittsburgh Pirates. I think may be like them. What do you guys think?

Green

Nope, Baseball is so different, but I see what you are getting at, as a Pirates fan it is hard to characterize because they were in a slump much worst than us, and they still have not made it to the postseason.

Hicks
07-02-2012, 11:15 PM
We don't have a superstar, so the answer is automatically yes, or so I get told.

RLeWorm
07-02-2012, 11:15 PM
Thats kind of what i thought when our FO said they want to bring Hill and Hibbert first. We need to bring in some more talent to keep improving.

croz24
07-02-2012, 11:18 PM
We're the Atlanta Hawks 2.0 with or without Hibbert. This franchise has proven time and again they are unwilling to take the risks necessary to put them over the top.

PR07
07-02-2012, 11:29 PM
I mean we're right about where the Hawks were for those few years, #3-5 seed, very good but not elite basketball team. I can only hope we take the necessary steps to try to continue to push this thing forward. Right now, it looks iffy.

Really?
07-02-2012, 11:33 PM
I mean we're right about where the Hawks were for those few years, #3-5 seed, very good but not elite basketball team. I can only hope we take the necessary steps to try to continue to push this thing forward. Right now, it looks iffy.

What would those be...?

15th parallel
07-02-2012, 11:33 PM
We're the Atlanta Hawks 2.0 with or without Hibbert. This franchise has proven time and again they are unwilling to take the risks necessary to put them over the top.

What kind of risk are you talking about? Trading our main guys? Spending out to get a superstar? Tanking?

IUfan4life
07-02-2012, 11:36 PM
I disagree with us being Hawks 2.0.

Sure we may never get past the second round, but we don't have a team of headcases, the most overpaid player in the league, or an iso dependent team. Also with KP as our new gm and his aggressiveness, I don't think we will be stagnant around the league like the Hawks have been.

vnzla81
07-02-2012, 11:39 PM
I don't think we are as good as Altlanta was.

Really?
07-02-2012, 11:39 PM
I disagree with us being Hawks 2.0.

Sure we may never get past the second round, but we don't have a team of headcases, the most overpaid player in the league, or an iso dependent team. Also with KP as our new gm and his aggressiveness, I don't think we will be stagnant around the league like the Hawks have been.

Not talking about team makeup, but just the prospect of continually placing 3rd best, always showing promise, but never having enough to get over the hump...

Pacersalltheway10
07-02-2012, 11:39 PM
Hawks dont/didn't have many other options besides Johnson/Horford/Smith . We have Granger/West/Hibbert/ but with great up and coming player Paul George. Hill and DC are better than the Hawks point guards.

MyFavMartin
07-02-2012, 11:41 PM
Thats kind of what i thought when our FO said they want to bring Hill and Hibbert first. We need to bring in some more talent to keep improving.

We did: Miles Plumlee.

IUfan4life
07-02-2012, 11:46 PM
Not talking about team makeup, but just the prospect of continually placing 3rd best, always showing promise, but never having enough to get over the hump...

I don't know that the Hawks ever really showed promise. And as long as the Heat are the Heat it's a little unfair of a comparison in my opinion.

Lance George
07-02-2012, 11:50 PM
...or the 90's Pacers v2.0.

15th parallel
07-02-2012, 11:54 PM
Well, the Hawks made some risky moves as well. It just didn't pan out the way it should be. And they did more than the current Pacers in terms of improving the roster, starting out with drafting Horford. Then they traded for an aging Bibby. Then banked on Joe Johnson. That team had more high-tier draft picks and more all-star appearances than what the Pacers had.

In the end, it's just all about the whole roster working good or not. We may get those high draft picks, we may get high-level free agents, we may trade for a superstar while gutting out 2 or more of the team's main assets or we may change the coaching staff and management. But it does not guarantee success.

SycamoreKen
07-03-2012, 12:44 AM
...or the 90's Pacers v2.0.

That would be nice. A finals trip plus being the #1 contender in the east until the melt down. I would take another run like that.

SycamoreKen
07-03-2012, 12:47 AM
Well, the Hawks made some risky moves as well. It just didn't pan out the way it should be. And they did more than the current Pacers in terms of improving the roster, starting out with drafting Horford. Then they traded for an aging Bibby. Then banked on Joe Johnson. That team had more high-tier draft picks and more all-star appearances than what the Pacershave had so far had.

In the end, it's just all about the whole roster working good or not. We may get those high draft picks, we may get high-level free agents, we may trade for a superstar while gutting out 2 or more of the team's main assets or we may change the coaching staff and management. But it does not guarantee success.

Hibbert and PG may have mare to come down the road they are young. That is why I put that bold in the quote. This team has just started its run. Why are we looking to make excuses for failing before it even happens?

oz_pacer
07-03-2012, 01:47 AM
Their up and coming young guy was Marvin Williams unfortunately for them

TheDon
07-03-2012, 03:45 AM
To me we'd be like the Atlanta hawks without their athleticism yeah we've got a big team but they all pretty much lumber around except for Paul George. I'm glad we're not handing out Joe Johnson type contracts though. I'm ready to get this Roy thing settled, he needs to be a Pacer going into this next season.

BillS
07-03-2012, 10:30 AM
The reality is that being a second round team is a REQUIREMENT for being an ECF team.

Many teams get to the second round and don't get beyond, even with pretty good players.

This whole "OMG we're going to be stuck in the second round if we don't chance another few years of sucking really badly" gets old.

We chanced years of sucking badly. LOOK WHAT IT GOT US.

Let's build up slowly - I'll take a few years on that second round step as opposed to making a move and falling off the whole building. Again.

Speed
07-03-2012, 10:53 AM
I listened to some of the Portland sports podcasts yesterday after Wells was on. The guy goes this is being set up to win now, if they sign Hibbert. He goes, maybe Batum looks at this team and sees Lamarcus, Liliard, Wes Matthews, and Roy Hibbert and really sees a team that may not compete for a championship next year, but is set up nicely to improve.....

It was really an eye opener for me, Roy is the greatest guy and one of the better Centers in the league that doesn't have hardly any true Centers, but he's a piece, not the cornerstone. I think Portland is screwing up, with this.

Roy was awesome as the 17th pick who busted his butt, became more than what most anyone would have expected, but as a franchise player, thats a different expectation altogether. At least if he came back to Indy, he is still seen as a great guy who helped the franchise turn the corner, in Portland I mean how long until he becomes an underacheiving albatross of a contract on a team that doesn't make the playoffs, which imo, thats what they'll be.

So ya, maybe the Pacers become Atlanta, maybe.... but what does Portland become unless Liliard it the second coming of Allen Iverson.

I'd hate to see Roy disliked, if he's to blame for their mediocrity, I think that would be really tough for him.

BrownBearCoffee
07-03-2012, 10:56 AM
I listened to some of the Portland sports podcasts yesterday after Wells was on. The guy goes this is being set up to win now, if they sign Hibbert. He goes, maybe Batum looks at this team and sees Lamarcus, Liliard, Wes Matthews, and Roy Hibbert and really sees a team that may not compete for a championship next year, but is set up nicely to improve.....

It was really an eye opener for me, Roy is the greatest guy and one of the better Centers in the league that doesn't have hardly any true Centers, but he's a piece, not the cornerstone. I think Portland is screwing up, with this.

Roy was awesome as the 17th pick who busted his butt, became more than what most anyone would have expected, but as a franchise player, thats a different expectation altogether. At least if he came back to Indy, he is still seen as a great guy who helped the franchise turn the corner, in Portland I mean how long until he becomes an underacheiving albatross of a contract on a team that doesn't make the playoffs, which imo, thats what they'll be.

So ya, maybe the Pacers become Atlanta, maybe.... but what does Portland become unless Liliard it the second coming of Allen Iverson.

I'd hate to see Roy disliked, if he's to blame for their mediocrity, I think that would be really tough for him.

My thinking is very similar. If history is any indicator, Roy will not be able to handle the pressure of being a max player, which will most likely make him hated in Portland. I wonder if he has even considered who he will be going up against--most games--out west?

PacerPenguins
07-03-2012, 10:59 AM
Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @MGBulldogBound: What teams are after Gordon that actually could get him? ---> Houston, Phoenix, Indiana and New Orleans


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @MGBulldogBound: Brandon Roy and OJ Mayo sign with...? ---> Warriors want BRoy so I'd go Warriors there... Bob Meyers was his agent.


Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @MGBulldogBound: and OJ Mayo sign with... -- the team that doesn't get Eric Gordon

THERE! we are going after him....looks to me if we don't get Gordon we get Mayo.

Speed
07-03-2012, 11:07 AM
My thinking is very similar. If history is any indicator, Roy will not be able to handle the pressure of being a max player, which will most likely make him hated in Portland. I wonder if he has even considered who he will be going up against--most games--out west?

Yep, I was thinking of exactly that. Most nights in the East Big Roy is going against lesser Centers, in the West....

Marc Gasol/Zach Randolph
Bynum/Gasol
Perkins/Ibaka
Anthony Davis now
Dandre Jordan/Blake Griffin
Al Jefferson/Milsap/Kanter/Favors
Tim Duncan
Love/Pekovic
Cousins/thomas Robinson

I mean yikes!

BrownBearCoffee
07-03-2012, 11:11 AM
Exactly. I love Roy and want him back, but if you think he is getting pushed off the block too much now...

Nuntius
07-03-2012, 02:26 PM
We will be Atlanta Hawks 2.0 if we don't resign Hibbert.

GrangerRanger
07-03-2012, 02:43 PM
Although the Hawks had decent talent, I never felt like the pieces quite clicked, there was never elite coaching, and the heart of the team wasn't always there. They had no identity as a basketball team. The Pacers play a style of basketball, have decent coaching, and fit right together. It's not always about talent, because sometimes egos can clash, and you don't always have a good leader to quell turmoil.

I'm a firm believer in the notion that a well coached team that has an identity (such as playing TEAM basketball, smashmouth style) can contend. I never looked at the Hawks at anything other than pretenders. Fans of other teams actually fear us because of our brand of basketball, our desire to win, and the fact we play hard.