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View Full Version : Seems that Atlanta may no longer be a threat - though Nets could be



yoadknux
07-02-2012, 07:43 PM
The East is re-arranging itself.

Hawks are close to dealing Joe Johnson to Brooklyn for some fillers/expirings, and in a different trade - Marvin Williams to the Jazz for Devin Harris (who is expiring also). My guess is, if both trades happen, expect them to trade Smith also, and who knows, maybe even Horford. There's no doubt that this post-trades Atlanta squad is a lottery team.

Brooklyn is going to be pretty scary if Deron signs. A starting five of Deron/JJ/G.Wallace/Hump/B.Lopez is hard to stop offensively, lots of talent there. Problem is that these guys may not fit with each other (for example I don't think JJ, a ball dominant wing, is a good fit next to a star point guard), and they could end up like the Knicks were this year. One thing to remember is that, Dwight is trying his best to force his way into Brooklyn also - we'll have to see how that plays out.

Washington added Okafor and Ariza, which gives them a decent starting 5 that might be able to sneak into the playoffs. It would be interesting to see whether Wall could actually be that type of point guard who makes his teammates better. I think the Wizards are doing the "small moves" we did before we got better.

What other moves should we expect/be aware of, that may affect our seeding in the East?

wintermute
07-02-2012, 07:47 PM
Hawks became worse in the short term. But as the ESPN guys pointed out, they're now perfectly positioned for Dwight Howard and Chris Paul.

Pace Maker
07-02-2012, 07:54 PM
yeah ATL now has a lot of cap space. And I think they're trying to unload Josh Smith also. They could be dangerous pretty soon.

Brooklyn will be tough if Williams stays also, Williams/Johnson/Wallace/???/Lopez with Marshon Brooks still around. I think the Wizards could also have a surprising season and sneak into the 8th spot. And let's not forget Cleveland and the improvement of Kyrie Irving.

kent beckley
07-02-2012, 07:55 PM
If they are moving Horford, I want to be first in line. West and a pick!!! Jones, Hansbrough, and a pick!! Crap what else can we throw at them? Horford and Hibbert sounds really nice together.

Hicks
07-02-2012, 07:59 PM
I think Atlanta will just build around Hordord and possibly Smith.

Pacer Fan
07-02-2012, 08:09 PM
I'd take Horford or Smith, heck I'll take Zaza if Roy goes somewhere else. We know Zaza can kick his butt! lol

cdash
07-02-2012, 08:11 PM
D12 is from the ATL and is reportedly very good buddies with Josh Smith.

Oh, and the Nets aren't a threat: They just cemented themselves in the 41-46 win territory for the foreseeable future--even with Deron. That lineup looks a lot better on paper than it is on the court.

vnzla81
07-02-2012, 08:13 PM
Josh Smith please :pray:

cdash
07-02-2012, 08:15 PM
Josh Smith please :pray:

Keep dreaming. I don't think he's going anywhere until this ****ing Dwight Howard saga plays itself out.

hoosierguy
07-02-2012, 08:29 PM
Well that eliminates the Nets from getting Howard.

I seriously doubt CP3 would sign with the Hawks. He has a good gig with the Clippers who will throw the kitchen sink to keep him next offseason.

Slick Pinkham
07-02-2012, 08:31 PM
....the Nets also privately acknowledge that this move all but rules out the ability to acquire Howard, who Monday publicly reiterated his long-held desire to be traded to the Nets.

Of recent attempts to re-engage the Magic on trade talks for Howard, one source told ESPN.com: "They didn't want to dance with us. Dwight blew it in March (when he opted in to the final year of his current Magic contract)."

LOL.. given the brushoff by the only team on his trade list!

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8124182/brooklyn-nets-agree-trade-atlanta-hawks-joe-johnson-sources-say

Steagles
07-02-2012, 08:47 PM
Dwight to the Hawks would almost be dumber than to the Nets.

graphic-er
07-02-2012, 08:50 PM
Why on earth would the Jazz want Marvin Williams. Unbelievable. Just take on an extra year of salary for that? Terrible.

A.B.Hollywood
07-02-2012, 08:52 PM
Dwight to the Hawks would almost be dumber than to the Nets.

Why? They would immediately become the best team in the East.

Devin Harris, Horford, Josh Smith and Howard is absolutely sick. They then still have some money to throw at a 2 guard like Mayo or Crawford to come back.

Last year's Pacers can't compete with that team. Not even close.

PR07
07-02-2012, 08:54 PM
It makes sense. Hawks were a good team, but haven't gotten any better the past few seasons. Dwight is good friends with Josh Smith, so maybe Smith can convince him to come on board.

ballism
07-02-2012, 09:02 PM
Why? They would immediately become the best team in the East.

Devin Harris, Horford, Josh Smith and Howard is absolutely sick. They then still have some money to throw at a 2 guard like Mayo or Crawford to come back.

Last year's Pacers can't compete with that team. Not even close.

How do they get Howard without giving up Horford? Jeff Teague and picks? That's far less than the Rockets are willing to offer.

PR07
07-02-2012, 09:05 PM
How do they get Howard without giving up Horford? Jeff Teague and picks? That's far less than the Rockets are willing to offer.

Free agency next year.

ballism
07-02-2012, 09:09 PM
Free agency next year.
i assume that poster meant a trade this year, because Mayo or Crawford won't be available next summer.

free agency, sure, if he's willing to take a paycut to go there.

3 8 thee great t h
07-03-2012, 07:53 AM
ACtually a few rumors are surfacing about hawks might be trying to acquire Howard and bring him back home, like I said just rumors but thats very interesting.

ballism
07-03-2012, 08:33 AM
ACtually a few rumors are surfacing about hawks might be trying to acquire Howard and bring him back home, like I said just rumors but thats very interesting.

i think that's the plan. Try to do a Horford for Dwight, and then once you have him secured, you can wait for next summer and make a run at CP3. If it fails, add someone like Iguodala or some role players.

DrFife
07-03-2012, 08:36 AM
Chris Broussard is tweeting that the Nets are still after DH: Brook Lopez (s&t). Humphries (s&t), Marshon Brooks (s&t), picks in '13, '15, 17. Then you'd have a new & very dangerous Big Three.

https://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard

EDIT: See "Dwight Howard" thread.

sportfireman
07-03-2012, 08:46 AM
Chris Broussard is tweeting that the Nets are still after DH: Brook Lopez (s&t). Humphries (s&t), Marshon Brooks (s&t), picks in '13, '15, 17. Then you'd have a new & very dangerous Big Three.

https://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard

EDIT: See "Dwight Howard" thread.

If I'm Olando I'm doing that deal...... immediately.

wintermute
07-03-2012, 09:11 AM
If I'm Olando I'm doing that deal...... immediately.

But why would Lopez and Hump? Remember that they are FAs, they have to agree to be sent to Orlando. Add in the complications of negotiating new contracts for both guys, well logistically it seems very tough to pull off.

graphic-er
07-03-2012, 09:18 AM
But why would Lopez and Hump? Remember that they are FAs, they have to agree to be sent to Orlando. Add in the complications of negotiating new contracts for both guys, well logistically it seems very tough to pull off.

Exactly, why would the Magic want a bunch of new money on the books. Dwight Howard is an idiot, he had every opportunity to decide his own destiny.

pacergod2
07-03-2012, 09:44 AM
It seems to me that Atlanta is the threat now, not Brooklyn.

I think we will see Horford packaged for Dwight. Dwight and JSmoove will be a very formidable front court and I think Dwight could be happy in Atlanta. I want to see Dwight playing for Houston or someone out west not named the Lakers.

DrFife
07-03-2012, 10:29 AM
It seems to me that Atlanta is the threat now, not Brooklyn.

I think we will see Horford packaged for Dwight. Dwight and JSmoove will be a very formidable front court and I think Dwight could be happy in Atlanta. I want to see Dwight playing for Houston or someone out west not named the Lakers.

This would be interesting indeed. If I'm Danny Ferry, I'm not parting with Horford for a back-scarred DH without assurances from both him (and JSmoove) that they'll re-sign.

On the other hand, if we view them somewhat like ourselves, why not keep Horford at PF and sign, say, Kaman?

MyFavMartin
07-03-2012, 10:34 AM
Didn't think you could combine S&Ts?

Sparhawk
07-03-2012, 11:28 AM
Horford or Smith would be freaking awesome.

mildlysane
07-03-2012, 11:44 AM
Do you suppose that the Nets are trying to get JJ to flip him into Howard? Maybe he is someone the new Magic brass wants.

Sparhawk
07-03-2012, 11:56 AM
If Dwight and Jsmoove are both on Atlanta come this season, then I just might go to more games!

Sparhawk
07-03-2012, 11:58 AM
If only the Pacers can help facilitate and grab MarShon Brooks.

ballism
07-04-2012, 06:24 AM
Not sure which of Dwight/Deron/Nets threads is the best place for this, but here's some number crunching from Hollinger. Apparently, the way the recent deals are reported, they aren't likely to have Humphries next year, much less Howard.

The Howard part was obvious anyway, they have no assets left and can't take Turkoglu (if you have to choose Bynum or Brook Lopez for Howard, who do you take).

But if the Teletovic deal prevents them from keeping Humphries, I'm shocked by that decision.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=8128257&_slug_=nba-do-not-bet-dwight-howard-brooklyn&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fstory%3fid%3d8128257%26_slug_%3dnba-do-not-bet-dwight-howard-brooklyn


I hope Mirza Teletovic is good, because signing him basically precludes the possibility of the Brooklyn Nets ever getting Dwight Howard.

The Nets announced the latest in a flurry of offseason moves Tuesday, starting with a midlevel exception deal for the Bosnian forward, moving on to a sign-and-trade deal for the Clippers' Reggie Evans and capping it off with the news that Deron Williams will return, reportedly on a five-year deal worth nearly $100 million.

All this is heady stuff for a team that went 22-44 this past season, after already coming to terms with free-agent forward Gerald Wallace and engineering a huge trade for Hawks guard Joe Johnson.

The Nets also are talking about trading for Howard, or re-signing free-agent center Brook Lopez and re-upping power forward Kris Humphries, and by the way, they'd like to use their biannual exception to perhaps bring in Jason Kidd at backup point guard.

But there are rules about this stuff, and the Nets are in the process of colliding with them before they can achieve those final steps. The Teletovic deal is for the non-taxpayers' midlevel exception, which caps the Nets' salaries at $74,307,000 for 2012-13. They cannot go over by one cent at any point.

Put in Williams at $17,177,193, Wallace at $8.9 million, Evans at $1.6 million, Teletovic at $5 million, Johnson at $19,752, 645 and MarShon Brooks at $1,160,040, and the Nets are in a pickle before they even pick up a phone to call Orlando.

That's because they also have three unsigned free agents they would like to keep (Gerald Green, Humphries and Lopez), and the league puts a "cap hold" on the salaries of free agents to prevent teams from using chicanery to circumvent the cap. The hold for Humphries is $12 million, the hold for Lopez $7,692,458 and the hold for Green $854,389.

The league also adds a charge for empty roster spots, at the rock-bottom minimum of $473,604, figuring you eventually intend to fill them in order to field a team. Add three "holds" to get the Brooklyn roster to 12 players, and that's another $1,420,8162.

So right now, the Nets have $76,159,802 on the books, and they can't do that -- again, the most they're allowed is $74,307,000.

This isn't necessarily a problem -- if the combined salaries for Humphries, Lopez and Green are $18,694,045 or less, everything is peachy. Alternatively, they could let Humphries walk and just spend on the other two. As for Kidd, the Nets would need to carve out another $1.9 million below to bring him aboard.

But it gets really tricky when you try to make room for the $19,536,360 owed Howard. Even if the Nets use all three free agents in a trade for Howard and throw in Brooks, that takes $21,706,887 off their books. Add in Howard's money and three roster holds to get the Nets back to 12 players, and they're adding $20,957,172 back on.

In other words, it cuts only $749,715 from the Nets' books and leaves them a heart-rending $1,103,807 shy of pulling off a Howard trade.

Of course, all this is predicated on the figures that have been reported to date. Perhaps Williams opted to take less money to give the Nets a bit more wiggle room, but everybody is reporting that's not the case. Perhaps Teletovic's deal isn't for quite the full midlevel exception. Or perhaps the Evans deal won't go through.

But as things have been reported, the Nets are a few ducats short of pulling off any Howard trade, let alone a good Howard trade that might actually entice Orlando. Brooklyn can't take back any other contracts, not even a Chris Duhon- or Quentin Richardson-sized one. Because recently signed players can't be packaged in a trade for two months, the absolute best Brooklyn can offer is sign-and-trading its three free agents, Brooks and three first-round picks. And I greatly doubt that trumps the other offers that will be coming Orlando's way.

Even that sliver of hope goes out the window the second anybody signs Lopez to an offer sheet, which will preclude the Nets from sign-and-trading him to Orlando.

With Brooklyn also being capped out for the foreseeable future, it pretty much closes the door on Howard going there as a free agent in 2013, which was his other endgame.

In the end, though, the problem isn't with the extra $1.1 million; it's with the extra $20 million. When the Nets had a ton of cap room, it appeared they could appease the Magic by taking a bunch of bad contracts off their hands in a Howard trade. That ship now has sailed, and as a result, so has much of Orlando's incentive to trade with the Nets.

Even without Howard, a difficult dance remains for the Nets. Getting Humphries, Lopez and Green to all re-up for a combined $18.7 million will be difficult, and it might force the Nets to let Humphries walk. Getting them to re-up for just $16.8 million and reopen the biannual exception for Kidd will be virtually impossible, which is probably why Kidd now is looking at Dallas and New York. And I'm not sure what imaginary exception they plan on using to get Ersan Ilyasova.

After all that, the Nets will be filling the rest of the roster with training camp filler, offering only the rock-bottom minimum to second-round pick Tyshawn Taylor and two other roster players.

So like I said, I hope Teletovic is good. His numbers from Europe are nice, and it's possible he'll be replacing Humphries at power forward. Oh, and he's making it impossible to get Dwight Howard.