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View Full Version : Bird's Blunder not Re-signing Hibbert during the season?



MillerTime
07-02-2012, 10:14 AM
Did Bird make a huge mistake in not re-signing Hibbert during the season allowing him to become a RFA??

DaveP63
07-02-2012, 10:16 AM
It was Hibbert and his agent who declined to sign an extension during the season, IIRC.

OlBlu
07-02-2012, 10:18 AM
Did Bird make a huge mistake in not re-signing Hibbert during the season allowing him to become a RFA??

Well, that would have worked if the Pacers made a max offer. I'm not sure the owner would allow that. Why would Hibbert sign anything less than a max offer from the Pacers when he knew full well (at least his agent surely did) that he would get offered such a contract by other attractive teams and Portland is an attractive team.....:cool:

Ratking
07-02-2012, 10:18 AM
If we lose him: yes. If we keep him: huh?

BillS
07-02-2012, 10:19 AM
It was Hibbert and his agent who declined to sign an extension during the season, IIRC.

Do we have to sticky a thread with this as a title in BIG CAPITAL LETTERS?

Though, technically, it was that they declined to even negotiate an extension. Still, no way Bird could have forcved anything.

MillerTime
07-02-2012, 10:19 AM
If we lose him: yes. If we keep him: huh?

If we keep him, he'll still be overpaid

Since86
07-02-2012, 10:19 AM
If we lose him: yes.

So it would be Bird's fault that Roy/his agent didn't want to negiotate during the season? I'm just making sure we're all clear that's what you're saying.

yoadknux
07-02-2012, 10:20 AM
Man, he tried. It just didn't work.

Pacerized
07-02-2012, 10:23 AM
I'm glad we didn't extend Hibbert. If we did we'd have no cap space to improve. Now I expect us to sign an impact player and keep Hibbert by matching.
Good move by Bird and Hibbert.

naptownmenace
07-02-2012, 10:25 AM
I nominate this worse thread of the year!

There were articles on this with quotes from Roy about how he and his agent decided to wait until the end of the season to negotiate a deal.

Ace E.Anderson
07-02-2012, 10:26 AM
I'm kind of confused. What more could Bird have done to have re-signed Roy during the season--aside from offer him the Max from the beginning.

THIS IS HOW RESTRICTED FREE AGENCY WORKS!

Hicks
07-02-2012, 11:02 AM
If we lose him: yes. If we keep him: huh?

Bad logic. The only extension they would have taken was the max we could offer. That's not a dime cheaper than what we can choose to pay him next week. So if he's not a Pacer, we never wanted to pay him that much.

PacerDude
07-02-2012, 08:36 PM
It was probably a 10 second phone call during the season.

Pacers: Hey, let's talk extension.

Falk: Naaaaaaaaah, we're going to wait until the end of the season and see what happens.

Pacers: Yeah, but we'd like to ............

Falk (interrupting): Talk to you July 1. Buh-bye.

-click-

able
07-02-2012, 08:48 PM
It was probably a 10 second phone call during the season.

Pacers: Hey, let's talk extension.

Falk: Naaaaaaaaah, we're going to wait until the end of the season and see what happens.

Pacers: Yeah, but we'd like to ............

Falk (interrupting): Talk to you July 1. Buh-bye.

-click-

Wow you were present????

one last time, lb did not want to offer anywhere near the max, hence there was no reason to talk, as Roy said, "max-guys get an extension, so my agent said it probably better to wait (like he ever would get less)
LB did damn well know this was a problem in the building and the elephant is now in the middle of the room, for others to clean up the pile he dropped.

whatever the current FO does, they can not win.

But forget getting anywhere in the playofffs without Roy for the next couple of years, unless Oden miraculously recovers and wants to play for the Pacers for a low ball offer.
Be prepared to watch Kaman the next 5 years, that is if you remain watching, if it happens i will go back into hibernation, went through enough to know when more depression from my "entertainment" is not a productive idea

Kegboy
07-02-2012, 09:05 PM
Yes, it's completely Larry Bird's fault. It's also his fault he didn't buy me a winning lottery ticket.

Stupid Larry Bird. :kickcan:

cdash
07-02-2012, 09:08 PM
Wow you were present????

one last time, lb did not want to offer anywhere near the max, hence there was no reason to talk, as Roy said, "max-guys get an extension, so my agent said it probably better to wait (like he ever would get less)
LB did damn well know this was a problem in the building and the elephant is now in the middle of the room, for others to clean up the pile he dropped.

whatever the current FO does, they can not win.

But forget getting anywhere in the playofffs without Roy for the next couple of years, unless Oden miraculously recovers and wants to play for the Pacers for a low ball offer.
Be prepared to watch Kaman the next 5 years, that is if you remain watching, if it happens i will go back into hibernation, went through enough to know when more depression from my "entertainment" is not a productive idea

This is a pretty ludicrous post. The current FO wins when they match the offer. The rest of your fantasy never happens, and hyperbole goes back into it's hole for another day.

MnvrChvy
07-02-2012, 09:16 PM
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Hibbert, but that's mainly because he seems like such an awesome dude. He has been very good for us, but in reality (or at least in my opinion) he has not shown that he will be consistently great. He has shown flashes of greatness, but when I go back and look they were not really that often. When he should have been dominant for us, he disappeared. I think we should sign him, even for the max, but if TPTB decide they cannot, I completely understand. It will suck to see him in another jersey, but I'd say good for him for getting the money.
If a team has to give a max deal, they are hoping that that player would prove to be worth way more than the max ala James, Howard, etc. They don't want to be in the position of hoping their max contract player may someday/somehow actually prove to be worth somewhere close to the max. That's they position the Pacers would be in. Hibbert is not currently worth the max, but maybe he will be. I'd really hate to be Walsh/Pritch right now, and I sure hope they have a plan B if things go south.

able
07-02-2012, 09:17 PM
This is a pretty ludicrous post. The current FO wins when they match the offer. The rest of your fantasy never happens, and hyperbole goes back into it's hole for another day.

I am not calling your oneliners ludicrous or ridiculous, thanks for the same respect.

On top of that half the people here will be upset giving Roy that contract and a part wants someone else, so whatever they do, they will end up being castized by a large group, you telling me that is a win situation?

vnzla81
07-02-2012, 09:20 PM
Yes, it's completely Morway's fault. It's also his fault he didn't buy me a winning lottery ticket.

Stupid Morway . :kickcan:

fixed.

pacers74
07-02-2012, 09:23 PM
It's also Bird's fault we didn't sign LBJ, Wade, and Bosh. It's also his fault we didn't trade for CP3.

cdash
07-02-2012, 09:40 PM
I am not calling your oneliners ludicrous or ridiculous, thanks for the same respect.

On top of that half the people here will be upset giving Roy that contract and a part wants someone else, so whatever they do, they will end up being castized by a large group, you telling me that is a win situation?

Well you can, because most of them are exactly that :laugh:

Half the people here might be upset giving Roy that contract--I sort of doubt a significant number of people would have real problems with it. Besides that, the casual fans would be a lot more pissed off about letting Roy walk than the small percentage of Pacer fans we represent on here. It's not a crazy contract, and again--this was always going to be the way this played out. The new front office has the media on their toes. They are keeping their cards close to the chest, and doing their due diligence in looking into alternative options. Come July 14th or whatever the day is, Roy will be a Pacer and things will die down around here.

rm1369
07-02-2012, 09:49 PM
Everyone has correctly stated that Faulk cutoff negotiations, so there is certainly no blame for that. However, if the front office decides that they do not want to match Portlands offer, I personally believe they would deserve a decent amount of criticism for not trading Hibbert last year. It is not at all shocking that he received the offer that he did. If the Pacers where not prepared to match, they should have traded him for value at the trade deadline. That is exactly how we came to acquire George Hill. It wasn't that SA didn't value him, it was that they knew he would receive offers above what they were prepared to match. So, that traded him a received decent value. Now, I fully expect the Pacers will match and then it's irrelevant, but if they don't I think it will be a very valid criticism.

Sollozzo
07-02-2012, 10:00 PM
Wow you were present????

one last time, lb did not want to offer anywhere near the max, hence there was no reason to talk, as Roy said, "max-guys get an extension, so my agent said it probably better to wait (like he ever would get less)
LB did damn well know this was a problem in the building and the elephant is now in the middle of the room, for others to clean up the pile he dropped.


Why in the world would you max the guy in the middle of the season when he is a RFA? Him being an RFA means that you will ALWAYS have the opportunity to match ANY deal for him. So why not wait and see what other teams offer him? Why not let the market set the price? We will ALWAYS be able to offer him the max, so jumping the gun early on would have made no sense on our part.

Had Bird given him a max deal at the beginning of last season and had Roy had an underwhelming year, you would have been the first person hanging Bird at the stake for it.

xBulletproof
07-02-2012, 10:03 PM
Wow, able. Just wow. :laugh:

If Larry Bird rang the opening bell for the NY stock exchange for one day you'd spin it into how he caused the global recession.

Ratking
07-02-2012, 10:09 PM
Bad logic. The only extension they would have taken was the max we could offer. That's not a dime cheaper than what we can choose to pay him next week. So if he's not a Pacer, we never wanted to pay him that much.

My response did not reflect my own feelings. Rather, it is the reaction I expect from the majority. If we lose Hibbert, Bird blundered. If we keep him, nobody will even remember the exchange. Assuming Hibbert doesn't diva out.

Hicks
07-02-2012, 10:18 PM
fixed.

Lame. Hyperbole on crack.

ilive4sports
07-02-2012, 10:31 PM
There was no reason to give Roy the max during the season. You never know what other teams would actually offer him so you are possibly paying more than you have to. Also wouldn't he take up more cap space immediately rather than the cap hold which would give us less flexibility to sign free agents?

We wouldn't have saved any money signing Roy during the season because he wouldn't have signed for less than the max.

IUfan4life
07-02-2012, 10:38 PM
Roy was never ever signing an extension mid-season, unless it was the max. Roy wasn't worth it then, and he's not worth it now, although we have no choice but to match.

gummy
07-02-2012, 10:40 PM
This AGAIN? Amazing!

Hibbert and his agent did not "cut off" negotiations. They declined to even start them! The FO said so. Hibbert said so. His agent said so. The links were posted and the quotes discussed at length.

Yes, sure - had we gotten word to them that we wanted to offer the absolute maximum extension we could give I am sure they would have been instantly open to talking. But why on earth would we do that when that is so much more money than another team can offer him in restricted free agency!? That would have been completely crazy. Much smarter to let the market set Roy's value. Worst case scenario, max offer (but way below the Pacers' own max). Best case scenario, less than the max other teams can offer. With the right of first refusal there is nothing to lose by waiting. Anything could have happened in the second half of the season to make his value go down. So far, the Pacers FO has played it perfectly, imo.

Now. If they do not end up matching the offer, then I think rm1369 is right - the FO made a mistake by not trying to trade him during the season because him being offered as much money as Portland has put on the table was entirely foreseeable. Not 100% inevitable, but pretty damn likely. So if they don't match, they (Larry, Morway and Pritchard - in that order, I suppose, though we will probably never know if they were all on the same page about this) should take a lot of heat for that. Of course, that hasn't happened yet so as of right now there are NO rational reasons to be upset with how the Pacers handled Roy's contract status last season.

I know all of this has been said in this thread and said in many other threads. But apparently it still needs to be said. able (I know you are not the only one, but you are the loudest about it and the only one besides the OP active in this thread so far) - I am sorry, but it is ridiculous to keep implying or outright saying that Bird screwed up the extension for Hibbert when there is so much evidence to the contrary and no evidence to support that conclusion. There are multiple legitimate reasons to criticize Bird. This is not one of them.

able
07-02-2012, 10:55 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/34539369

"There's no rush," Falk said. "I think it’s unlikely that we’ll come to agreement this week. It doesn’t mean in any way that he's not happy in Indiana. ... We've had very friendly discussions, and both sides recognize that the discussion is probably premature."


http://bloguin.com/crossoverchronicles/2012-articles/january/roy-hibbert-not-planning-on-signing-extension-by-wednesday.html

If I was speculating as to why he wouldn't want to sign that deal, especially if he genuinely does want to stay in Indiana, I would start off by writing a sentence that began with if I was speculating as to why he wouldn't sign this deal. Then I'd make a joke about it that may or may not have been funny, followed by said speculation. Which would be that I gotta think Hibbert, even as a restricted free agent, is going to get an offer - or three - higher than what Indiana is offering him right now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/scoop-du-jour/pacers-roy-hibbert-doesn-t-want-extension-125436178.html

"I'm not saying 100 percent we wouldn't do [an extension], but I'd say it's likely," his agent, David Falk said, according to the site. "He likes Indiana, it's a great place, it's worked out well. But it's my opinion that generally, these things are hard to do. If I was an owner I wouldn't do one unless I got a discount. … I think more than anything else, the reason guys do extensions, in my opinion, is when you have a client who is insecure that he's going to get paid. … Centers don't grow on trees. If the guy has the confidence to wait, he's probably better off waiting (http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/01/16/few-extensions-for-players/index.html)."

xBulletproof
07-02-2012, 11:04 PM
I am not sure what the point of the articles were. We all know the circumstances. You're just the only one who sees it the way you do.

Cubs231721
07-03-2012, 07:10 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/scoop-du-jour/pacers-roy-hibbert-doesn-t-want-extension-125436178.html

"I'm not saying 100 percent we wouldn't do [an extension], but I'd say it's likely," his agent, David Falk said, according to the site. "He likes Indiana, it's a great place, it's worked out well. But it's my opinion that generally, these things are hard to do. If I was an owner I wouldn't do one unless I got a discount. … I think more than anything else, the reason guys do extensions, in my opinion, is when you have a client who is insecure that he's going to get paid. … Centers don't grow on trees. If the guy has the confidence to wait, he's probably better off waiting (http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/01/16/few-extensions-for-players/index.html)."

This third article explains it very nicely why neither side blundered. Hibbert's agent was very frank about it. There's little reason for the team to do it unless they get a discount attached. There's little reason for the player to accept a discount unless he's insecure. So there's no good starting ground to be able to negotiate an extension under those circumstances. The only decent starting ground is if you have a player who is worried about a major injury and so will take the small discount to insure himself, but apparently Hibbert wasn't one of those players.

I don't think either side has been surprised whatsoever about the way it's worked out. This has always been the most likely conclusion.

k_lewis93
07-03-2012, 07:41 AM
Hate to see it but IMO he's gone. Just too many signs point to the outcome. Hope I'm wrong cause I really thought he loved Indiana and his teammates but maybe he's just getting mixed up with all the other greedy NBA players and if you show him the money loyalty means nothing. Like I said, hope i'm wrong but we'll see.