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View Full Version : Hibbert not loyal ? "Leaning toward signing with the blazers if he had the choice ?"



PacersForever
07-02-2012, 03:05 AM
Free agent center Roy Hibbert is now leaning toward wanting to play with the Portland Trail Blazers next season, a day after the restricted free agent got a verbal commitment from the Blazers that they would tender a four-year, $58 million offer sheet to him, the maximum he can receive under terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, league sources confirmed Sunday.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/01/hibbert-leaning-toward-portland-after-max-offer/


I have to say that hurts. It doesn't help that were talking to others centers (Asik, Kaman). But he rather join Portland ?

CableKC
07-02-2012, 03:09 AM
Until I hear it from his mouth....I'll take this with a grain of salt. My guess is that this is coming from his Agent.

ZenTellah
07-02-2012, 03:11 AM
Until I hear it from Roy, I'm not going to put much stock in these "sources".

Jose Slaughter
07-02-2012, 03:13 AM
Until I see an actual quote from Hibbert on this I will continue to have my doubts.

This smells like a leak from an agent or some other low life... err low level source.

edit: what he just said!

PacersForever
07-02-2012, 03:13 AM
Until I hear it from his mouth....I'll take this with a grain of salt. My guess is that this is coming from his Agent.

Aldridge is 100% credible on is sources. Who knows but i have a feeling its true. He also said he was blown away by their presentation.

Hypnotiq
07-02-2012, 03:15 AM
Well who wouldn't be? getting to play with LMA would be pretty fun id imagine

PacersForever
07-02-2012, 03:18 AM
Well who wouldn't be? getting to play with LMA would be pretty fun id imagine

Even if we matched I believe he would rather join Portland is what was meant by what was reportedly said.

Pingu
07-02-2012, 03:20 AM
I don't believe a word of it. Also, if Batum signs an offer sheet with the T-Wolves, as seems likely, then Portland will probably match and this could impact their ability to actually offer Roy a max contract (either that or they run the risk of getting neither Batum nor Hibbert). See below:

http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landingdwight?If-Batum-is-serious-about-T-Wolves-Blaze=1&blockID=733826&feedID=8351

At any rate, it's not like Roy has a choice if the Pacers match. He'll be a Pacer, whether he likes it or not (and besides these 'sources', is there any indication he doesn't want to stay in Indy?).

rexnom
07-02-2012, 03:26 AM
Whether true or not, Roy is on dangerous ground rep-wise. The perception of him is not great right now.

tadscout
07-02-2012, 03:30 AM
Aldridge is 100% credible on is sources. Who knows but i have a feeling its true. He also said he was blown away by their presentation.

But the source is most likely his agent...............

tadscout
07-02-2012, 03:32 AM
Even if we matched I believe he would rather join Portland is what was meant by what was reportedly said.

You are taking agent and/or even Portland FO spin to seriously.

ballism
07-02-2012, 03:33 AM
I don't believe a word of it. Also, if Batum signs an offer sheet with the T-Wolves, as seems likely, then Portland will probably match and this could impact their ability to actually offer Roy a max contract (either that or they run the risk of getting neither Batum nor Hibbert). See below:

http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landingdwight?If-Batum-is-serious-about-T-Wolves-Blaze=1&blockID=733826&feedID=8351

At any rate, it's not like Roy has a choice if the Pacers match.


It seems like they are assuming that the Blazers want to keep JJ Hickson at any costs.
They could pass on Hickson, and then they have more than enough space for Hibbert and Batum.
I think if it came to choosing Hickson or Hibbert, it would be an easy choice.

Also, a lot depends on when they have to match Batum. If they convince Batum to stall it a little, they would be able to give Hibbert the max, sign another player at ~6-7 mil (Hickson or someone else) and still keep Batum.
The Blazers are in a great situation this year.

Kemo
07-02-2012, 03:39 AM
Nothing new here, been posted many times before, not sure it needs its own thread but.... this is just posturing...
No one's feelings need to get hurt.. business is business... With that being said, I truly believe in my heart that Roy wants to remain a Pacer... All of this is just a formality...

The thing we NEED to be worrying about, is the Pacer's front office...
If Bird was still here, I would say with 120% certainty we would match whatever offer is thrown out there...
With Walsh at the helm, I am not so sure and would put it at about a 90% chance we match.. It's that other 10% that has me worried.. Not because of the money involved, but moreso with there being new management at the reins ..

I will say one thing though, if Portland ends up with Hibbert, I don't know how I will react.. Because I will have lost all faith in this great organization and will be probably so disgusted that I just won't care anymore... I have way too much emotionally invested in this team and a very select few of our players..

I'll probably give up on the whole NBA and basketball as a whole, much like I did baseball about 18 years ago and I never looked back.... I hate saying that, because it would be like giving up my kid for adoption but it will **** me off beyond belief ..

ilive4sports
07-02-2012, 03:43 AM
With what is on the table right now, of course Roy is leaning towards the Blazers, they are offering more money. If we match, and he had a choice in the matter, he would stay in Indiana.

Stop pretending that players should be loyal and if they would take a better deal elsewhere that they are dicks. Thats business. Teams have no problem trading players or not resigning them and no one says a thing. They play to make money, whether you like that or not.

avoidingtheclowns
07-02-2012, 03:44 AM
Whether true or not, Roy is on dangerous ground rep-wise. The perception of him is not great right now.

Not really.

There are four ways restricted free agency can go:

[*=1]Roy agrees to whatever number the Pacers toss out there
[*=1]Roy investigates offers from other teams and allows Pacers to match/beat/pass
[*=1]Roy signs an offer sheet and the Pacers decide to match/pass
[*=1]Roy is offered the absolute max the Pacers are allowed to


#1 is bad for Roy. #4 is bad for the Pacers. #2 or #3 is the compromise.

None of this has anything to do with loyalty or reputation. It's just the nature of restricted free agency.

PacersForever
07-02-2012, 03:50 AM
With what is on the table right now, of course Roy is leaning towards the Blazers, they are offering more money. If we match, and he had a choice in the matter, he would stay in Indiana.

Stop pretending that players should be loyal and if they would take a better deal elsewhere that they are dicks. Thats business. Teams have no problem trading players or not resigning them and no one says a thing. They play to make money, whether you like that or not.

True but my point is even if we matched his offer he would rather be with them.

Kstat
07-02-2012, 03:54 AM
True but my point is even if we matched his offer he would rather be with them.

That's all speculation unless it comes directly from hibbert himself, not his agent.

If hibbert really wants to leave Indiana, he'll make a public declaration.

ilive4sports
07-02-2012, 03:54 AM
True but my point is even if we matched his offer he would rather be with them.
No where is that said in the article or in the video. All that is said is that he is leaning towards Portland, solely because of the money they are offering.

Its just posturing from Roy, pretty much saying there is no home town discount

ballism
07-02-2012, 04:00 AM
No where is that said in the article or in the video. All that is said is that he is leaning towards Portland, solely because of the money they are offering.

Its just posturing from Roy, pretty much saying there is no home town discount

Well, the article does say


The Pacers would still be able to match any offer for Hibbbert when the July moratorium expires, but teams generally work out deals for players who express a specific desire to be elsewhere once they become free agents.
so it kind of does imply that there's a desire to be elsewhere even if we match.

Now is it posturing? Almost certainly.

gummy
07-02-2012, 04:14 AM
Yes, it does imply that Hibbert has a desire to be elsewhere, and it is most likely just agent posturing. Unfortunate, but that is the way the game is played.

Step back for a moment here. How much does Roy Hibbert love playing for Coach Vogel? Not enough to give us a "home town" discount for sure, but he has made it abundantly clear he is devoted to the guy and very clear how much he loves his Area 55 people. We are to believe that because the FO from Portland gave him a few hours of song and dance that he would much rather be in Portland now?

No. That's as silly as thinking we'd really rather have Kaman or Asik than Roy just because we've talked to them.

Now I am a little worried about what our FO is going to do, but I am not at all worried that Roy doesn't want to play for the Indiana Pacers. He wants to get paid what the market will bear and so far nothing that has happened is out of the ordinary for this time period.

If we get a direct quote from Roy that says he doesn't want to come back to Indiana, then we can have a meltdown together. ;)

Speaking of direct quotes - I don't know why you have "Leaning toward signing with the blazers if he had the choice?" in quotes when that quote does not appear anywhere in the article you are referencing. You are paraphrasing based on your understanding of the article and the problem with that is that you have worded it quite a bit more strongly but make it appear like someone else went on record saying it. Bad form.

mattie
07-02-2012, 04:37 AM
I heard Roy and Portland have been sleeping together for months.

PacersForever
07-02-2012, 04:40 AM
Yes, it does imply that Hibbert has a desire to be elsewhere, and it is most likely just agent posturing. Unfortunate, but that is the way the game is played.

Step back for a moment here. How much does Roy Hibbert love playing for Coach Vogel? Not enough to give us a "home town" discount for sure, but he has made it abundantly clear he is devoted to the guy and very clear how much he loves his Area 55 people. We are to believe that because the FO from Portland gave him a few hours of song and dance that he would much rather be in Portland now?

No. That's as silly as thinking we'd really rather have Kaman or Asik than Roy just because we've talked to them.

Now I am a little worried about what our FO is going to do, but I am not at all worried that Roy doesn't want to play for the Indiana Pacers. He wants to get paid what the market will bear and so far nothing that has happened is out of the ordinary for this time period.

If we get a direct quote from Roy that says he doesn't want to come back to Indiana, then we can have a meltdown together. ;)

Speaking of direct quotes - I don't know why you have "Leaning toward signing with the blazers if he had the choice?" in quotes when that quote does not appear anywhere in the article you are referencing. You are paraphrasing based on your understanding of the article and the problem with that is that you have worded it quite a bit more strongly but make it appear like someone else went on record saying it. Bad form.

I was thinking the same about why he would want to stay here. But them I also think that maybe it was all a lie.

Maybe his just liked Vogel's personality better then O'Brian's because he didn't put him down in front of others, but truthfully

he was disgusted on how he was fed the ball especially during the Heat series. Portland must have gave his a sales speech on how

they were going to make sure they were going to unleash his full potential.


I don't see anything wrong with the title. It's with a question mark and the video clearly indicates that it may he would do if he had the decision.

gummy
07-02-2012, 04:48 AM
I was thinking the same about why he would want to stay here. But them I also think that maybe it was all a lie.

Maybe his just liked Vogel's personality better then O'Brian's because he didn't put him down in front of others, but truthfully

he was disgusted on how he was fed the ball especially during the Heat series. Portland must have gave his a sales speech on how

they were going to make sure they were going to unleash his full potential.


I don't see anything wrong with the title. It's with a question mark and the video clearly indicates that it may he would do if he had the decision.

I couldn't watch the video until now, it kept stalling in the Deron Williams portion. OK, so the quotes from Aldridge are: "Right now, if Roy Hibbert had to choose, he'd choose Portland," and "If he had to pick, I think he would pick Portland." Fairly close to what you said, but when you put something in quotes it should be exact.

I still think it's mostly posturing. He's feeling warm and fuzzy because people want him and want to give him a lot of money. If the Pacers match I doubt Roy sulks about it.

It's going to be a loooong two weeks. :(

Kstat
07-02-2012, 04:52 AM
Also, keep in mind, Roy kills his reputation with other teams if he makes it clear he's just using the blazers for leverage and hes inly signing the contract to force the pacers to match it. He has to put a positive spin on this if he really intends to sign their offer sheet.

rexnom
07-02-2012, 05:49 AM
Not really.

There are four ways restricted free agency can go:

[*=1]Roy agrees to whatever number the Pacers toss out there
[*=1]Roy investigates offers from other teams and allows Pacers to match/beat/pass
[*=1]Roy signs an offer sheet and the Pacers decide to match/pass
[*=1]Roy is offered the absolute max the Pacers are allowed to


#1 is bad for Roy. #4 is bad for the Pacers. #2 or #3 is the compromise.

None of this has anything to do with loyalty or reputation. It's just the nature of restricted free agency.
It has everything to do with reputation, among your fans. Let's wait out the 10 days and see if we get any more "Roy not loyal" posts and then we can reassess. And this is among a biased sample of fans that understands the nuances of restricted free agency.

wintermute
07-02-2012, 06:53 AM
Whether true or not, Roy is on dangerous ground rep-wise. The perception of him is not great right now.

I'll bet it all blows over really quick once he re-signs.

OlBlu
07-02-2012, 07:07 AM
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/07/01/hibbert-leaning-toward-portland-after-max-offer/


I have to say that hurts. It doesn't help that were talking to others centers (Asik, Kaman). But he rather join Portland ?

Did the Pacers step up with a max offer? Which team has the better management and is likely to produce a winner? Why wouldn't he want to play there? Hibbert owes nothing to the Pacers. They could have stepped up with a max offer but they didn't. The fans here keep saying he isn't worth that contract. Good luck to Roy on whatever he decides to do......:cool:

OlBlu
07-02-2012, 07:09 AM
It has everything to do with reputation, among your fans. Let's wait out the 10 days and see if we get any more "Roy not loyal" posts and then we can reassess. And this is among a biased sample of fans that understands the nuances of restricted free agency.

The heading should have been, "The Pacers not loyal".........:cool:

rexnom
07-02-2012, 07:18 AM
I'll bet it all blows over really quick once he re-signs.
I think so too. But he's teetering on the edge right now. Roy, for better or worse, has really connected closely with his fans. The support there is more personal than with other players. Usually these things blow over but in Roy's case, if he keeps pushing it? I think it might hurt his reputation some. He needs to tread carefully.

skyfire
07-02-2012, 07:39 AM
This is all posturing imo. The Pacers might be trying negotiate a 5 year deal at slightly lower money per year, than a max from Portland would pay, ~12-13 per year for 5 years, so maybe 60-65mil. The agent releases a statement like this to try and force the Pacers hand to offer more. Until Roy actually signs an offer sheet from one of these other suiters nothing is final.

Ransom
07-02-2012, 07:50 AM
Don't want Roy to leave, but not sure why his "rep" should take a hit for going to a place that offers a max contract.

BornReady
07-02-2012, 07:51 AM
guys just think - is this AT ALL consistent with ANYTHING Hibbert has said in the past?

Frostwolf
07-02-2012, 07:52 AM
considering the pacers don't even need to offer a contract by july 11, i don't see why everyone is getting so worked up about something that roy nor his agent even said.

there are no direct quotes from roy or his agent in the article.

Aw Heck
07-02-2012, 08:02 AM
I think people are reading WAY too much into this.

This is contract negotiations. Both the Pacers and Hibbert's agent are going to posture and try to find as much leverage as possible. Both of them are exploring all of their options right now. Hibbert's agent is going to go out and see who will offer Hibbert the most money and the Pacers talked with Omer friggin' Asik. Everyone is talking with everyone.

And what does "leaning towards signing with Blazers" mean? It means of the offer sheets that Hibbert has received (two), he is leaning towards signing the Blazers' offer. It doesn't mean that he wants to leave the Pacers. It means that if the Pacers decide not to match the Blazers' offer sheet, he's going to be a Blazer. But that's not going to happen.

BDB8831
07-02-2012, 08:21 AM
Take the emotions out of this and think about all the big dollar deals the papers have had over the last decade (O'Neal,Croshere,Rose,Granger) can't do the same thing over and over again expecting something different. This is a player how plays 30min a night sorry not worth nearly 15 millions

Reginald
07-02-2012, 08:33 AM
I have to say that hurts. It doesn't help that were talking to others centers (Asik, Kaman). But he rather join Portland ?

As other posters have mentioned, this is a non-story if you just understand how max offers work. Roy is not leaning towards signing with Portland, he's leaning towards signing their offer sheet. BIG difference. It's just part of the process. By the rules of restricted free agency, the Pacers can't match until AFTER he signs the offer sheet. The time to be mad about this was the middle of last season when Roy and his agent didn't negotiate a new deal: that's when the righting was on the wall for this to happen, not two days ago.

graphic-er
07-02-2012, 08:42 AM
All I can say is that if Roy actually does come out publicly for the Blazers.....good luck to your knees bra!

And if Roy does actually do this publicly, maybe that would give Eric Gordon a precedent to do the same for Indiana.

Ace E.Anderson
07-02-2012, 08:44 AM
All I can say is that if Roy actually does come out publicly for the Blazers.....good luck to your knees bra!

And if Roy does actually do this publicly, maybe that would give Eric Gordon a precedent to do the same for Indiana.

Lol. I'll give it to you bro, you truly are RELENTLESS in your desire for EG to come here and play!!!

jeffg-body
07-02-2012, 08:46 AM
I think people are reading WAY too much into this.

This is contract negotiations. Both the Pacers and Hibbert's agent are going to posture and try to find as much leverage as possible. Both of them are exploring all of their options right now. Hibbert's agent is going to go out and see who will offer Hibbert the most money and the Pacers talked with Omer friggin' Asik. Everyone is talking with everyone.

And what does "leaning towards signing with Blazers" mean? It means of the offer sheets that Hibbert has received (two), he is leaning towards signing the Blazers' offer. It doesn't mean that he wants to leave the Pacers. It means that if the Pacers decide not to match the Blazers' offer sheet, he's going to be a Blazer. But that's not going to happen.

I can't agree with you more. All of this is just posturing and just part of contract negotiations. Doesn't anyone remembering when Reggie did the same thing?

Tom White
07-02-2012, 08:52 AM
Aldridge is 100% credible on is sources. Who knows but i have a feeling its true. He also said he was blown away by their presentation.

To tell the truth, I've never thought much of Aldridge. Just another guy who repeats whatever he is told from whomever is telling it.

Now, here is another thought for everyone to ponder. How much of this is being generated by Paul Allen and company? Remember, he and Pritchard did not have the best parting of the ways. Could Allen be trying to "Pritch-slap" Pritchard with all this talk?

HC
07-02-2012, 09:01 AM
I can't agree with you more. All of this is just posturing and just part of contract negotiations. Doesn't anyone remembering when Reggie did the same thing?

I'm not sure what time frame you are referring to, but there was a point in time where the people here treated Reggie pretty poorly.

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 09:16 AM
I think people are reading WAY too much into this.

This is contract negotiations. Both the Pacers and Hibbert's agent are going to posture and try to find as much leverage as possible. Both of them are exploring all of their options right now. Hibbert's agent is going to go out and see who will offer Hibbert the most money and the Pacers talked with Omer friggin' Asik. Everyone is talking with everyone.

And what does "leaning towards signing with Blazers" mean? It means of the offer sheets that Hibbert has received (two), he is leaning towards signing the Blazers' offer. It doesn't mean that he wants to leave the Pacers. It means that if the Pacers decide not to match the Blazers' offer sheet, he's going to be a Blazer. But that's not going to happen.

Absolutely aw heck... Folks on here yesterday wanted to criticize me when I said how this was gonna play out... The most telling things are...

A) Hibbert nor his agent have announced that Hibbert has agreed to sign a contract with Blazers.
As other RFAs have agreed to sign with other teams their agents have announced this. Signaling an end to negotiations. All we have heard is that hes "leaning" or "would prefer". Hes "serious" type comments. Tells me-hes really not so sure.

B) The Placer's are doing their "due dilligence" to find a suitable replacement. They are also letting Hibbs know that "hey if you wanna play with fire you might get burned. Hes looking at atleast.a 3 year rebuild in Portland. And they just drafted a Lottery Center(Meyers). So, is Hibbs the "Tebow" or is he the "Sanchez" of that relationship? Either way, its not a favorable situation for him.

I'm not going to say Hibbs does not deserve what hes gonna get. Nor am I gonna say his MAX is the same as a LeBron James MAX. But LeBron took less money to play with better players and the Pacer's have every right to protect their roster flexibility. Giving him a MAX does very little to effect this year because we can just sign our FA before him. But next year when West, Tyler and D.C. come up, 3 mil could make a huge difference! Especially if we are very close to the cap.

That said, I appreciate the pacer's are playing hardball. And I hope they re-sign Hibbs. But all of this is classic smokescreans and posturing. I think Hibbs is gonna end up signing a 5 year deal with us for around 67 mil. With a player option on the 5th year, When all is done.

BRushWithDeath
07-02-2012, 09:21 AM
B) The Placer's are doing their "due dilligence" to find a suitable replacement. They are also letting Hibbs know that "hey if you wanna play with fire you might get burned. Hes looking at atleast.a 3 year rebuild in Portland. And they just drafted a Lottery Center(Meyers). So, is Hibbs the "Tebow" or is he the "Sanchez" of that relationship? Either way, its not a favorable situation for him.

You really should have a look at Portland's roster.

BillS
07-02-2012, 09:25 AM
One could definitely say that of the offers made verbally so far, Roy prefers Portland since it is the only max offer. That's a no-brainer.

It doesn't really say that he prefers to PLAY there, just that he prefers the offer.

As usual, the Pacers are damned if they do ("always overpaying for players") and damned if they don't ("can't even keep their own free agents").

Larry Staverman
07-02-2012, 09:57 AM
Funny how Roy will not speak to anyone locally about his free agency locally but after 1 60 meeting with Portland he is telling every stranger he sees that the Blazers are his dream situation

BS...nice try Falk

Hicks
07-02-2012, 09:57 AM
Even if we matched I believe he would rather join Portland is what was meant by what was reportedly said.

My understanding is he was blown away that they would offer the max so quickly like that and/or that the Blazers specifically were so interested in him. That doesn't mean he doesn't want to be a Pacer anymore. If we pay the same money, I'm sure he still loves being here. Come on, now.

Hicks
07-02-2012, 09:58 AM
Whether true or not, Roy is on dangerous ground rep-wise. The perception of him is not great right now.

Uh, why? Shouldn't have changed a bit as of now.

BornReady#6
07-02-2012, 10:02 AM
I agree with those saying its just a matter of leverage. What he is saying is that the Blazers offered him a max contract, and the Pacers didn't, his response to this is leaning toward the ,max from Portland, b/c the, dollar amount. Who wouldn't do this? The owners have okayed the resigning based on whatever the FO decide to do, and with the fan pressure obviously rising, and their job is to build an aesthetically pleasing team, which means a winning team, which is exactly what we had last year. I feel that Bird is going to still have a major impact on what happens, and may be working with the team behind the scenes as he deals with some life/health issues this season, posing for a return in a year or so. Roy will remain a Pacer there is no doubt in my mind. He twitted to area 55 members to not lose sleep about this, which in my mind a good gesture. We will get Roy back, Hill back, and if that is it, we will be a damn good team.

ballism
07-02-2012, 10:06 AM
Hes looking at atleast.a 3 year rebuild in Portland.


You really should have a look at Portland's roster.

Indeed...

Ratking
07-02-2012, 10:07 AM
Uh, why? Shouldn't have changed a bit as of now.

Now we see Roy for who he really is: a grown man looking to support himself and his loved ones...gross

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 10:09 AM
You really should have a look at Portland's roster.

I have... It's LMA (all-Star).. Wes Matthews (Solid).. Rookie PG Lillard (Questions whether he can score against NBA Players... Hell, D1 Players are valid)... and 7 Free Agents

Batum, I would say is solid, but even he is considered over-rated and inconsistent by many accounts (Like Hibbert)and his tenure in Portland is being seriously questioned. Especially if the Hibbert deal goes on past July 11th.

The addition of Hibbert may make them contenders for a Playoff Spot. But they are not title contenders for ATLEAST 3 years...

OH, and does anyone want to argue that Roy isn't gonna get his lunch EATEN, NIGHTLY by Western Conference Centers? If he goes over there, he has played in his last All-Star Game...

Kstat
07-02-2012, 10:14 AM
Portland has Lamarcus Aldridge. Even with just he and Roy, that wouldn't be a rebuild. You could fill out the roster with role players and still make the playoffs.

Slick Pinkham
07-02-2012, 10:17 AM
Old-timers will remember a free agent Reggie Miller remarking how he was very impressed after being wined and dined by, of all people, the New York Knicks.

Some things are leaked for leverage purposes.

I think that this one will end in a similar fashion, with Roy and Area 55 staying in Indy

ballism
07-02-2012, 10:23 AM
The addition of Hibbert may make them contenders for a Playoff Spot. But they are not title contenders for ATLEAST 3 years...


There's a difference between not winning titles and rebuilding.
The way you are using 'rebuilding', we are rebuilding too.
If the Blazers get Roy, they'd have 2 All Stars, 2 solid starters, a high lotto rookie, a few decent bench guys and could potentially add another ~midlevel piece this year (or resign Hickson). On top of that, there's upside in that roster going forward. It's a very exciting situation, especially for someone like Roy for whom Aldridge would be the perfect frontcourt partner.

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 10:23 AM
Portland has Lamarcus Aldridge. Even with just he and Roy, that wouldn't be a rebuild. You could fill out the roster with role players and still make the playoffs.

C'mon KStat. You are not serious... An arguement could be made that they would still be the WORST team in the Northwest Division. Thunder, Nuggets, Jazz, T-Wolves?

Kstat
07-02-2012, 10:25 AM
If you have two all stars up front, filling out your roster becomes extremely easy.

All star C + all star PF= playoffs.

QuickRelease
07-02-2012, 10:25 AM
Any chance Bill Walton played up Portland to Roy?

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 10:28 AM
There's a difference between not being title contenders and rebuilding.
The way you are using 'rebuilding', we are rebuilding too.
If the Blazers get Roy, they'd have 2 All Stars, 2 solid starters, a high lotto rookie, a few decent bench guys and could potentially add another ~midlevel piece this year (or resign Hickson). On top of that, there's upside in that roster going forward. It's a very exciting situation, especially for someone like Roy for whom Aldridge would be the perfect frontcourt partner.

I never said that they didn't have some tools... Hell, I might have all the bricks on my lot, but no house and still be rebuilding... It took the Heat 2 years to win a title with 3 great players... LaMarcus is great teamate. But, lets not be ridiculous...

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 10:29 AM
If you have two all stars up front, filling out your roster becomes extremely easy.

All star C + all star PF= playoffs.

Roy, NOT AN ALL-STAR in the West!!!

BornReady#6
07-02-2012, 10:31 AM
The addition of Hibbert may make them contenders for a Playoff Spot. But they are not title contenders for ATLEAST 3 years...

OH, and does anyone want to argue that Roy isn't gonna get his lunch EATEN, NIGHTLY by Western Conference Centers? If he goes over there, he has played in his last All-Star Game...

Both great points, not to mention how far he would be from DC and Gtown.

Kstat
07-02-2012, 10:31 AM
Right. There's just no way Hibbert would make the all star team in the west over the immortal Marc Gasol!

PR07
07-02-2012, 10:33 AM
It's just posturing by his agent I wouldn't take it personally.

ballism
07-02-2012, 10:38 AM
I never said that they didn't have some tools... Hell, I might have all the bricks on my lot, but no house and still be rebuilding... It took the Heat 2 years to win a title with 3 great players... LaMarcus is great teamate. But, lets not be ridiculous...

you are all over the place. first you say it's not a favorable situation for Roy and they'll be rebuilding. then you turn it into "they won't win a title soon". Noone is pegging them as a title favorite. Your initial point made no sense though.

OlBlu
07-02-2012, 10:38 AM
Roy, NOT AN ALL-STAR in the West!!!

He isn't an All Star in the East either unless someone is injured. Players get injured in the West too......:cool:

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 10:41 AM
Right. There's just no way Hibbert would make the all star team in the west over the immortal Marc Gasol!

To quote your #1 fan Ballism from a few days ago...

"Anyway, the Western conference would be incredible. Most of the teams would have a great center. Howard, Bynum, Cousins, Bogut, two Gasols, Duncan, Anthony Davis, Al Jefferson, Gortat, Pekovic...."--- Ballism (about the possibility of Howard to Houston)

Hibbert not as good as atleast 4 or 5 of those...

Jeremy
07-02-2012, 10:42 AM
I'll believe it when I hear it from him.

Kstat
07-02-2012, 10:42 AM
...which 4 or 5 centers is hibbert clearly below?

Keeping in mind, pau gasol is not a center.

PR07
07-02-2012, 10:47 AM
...which 4 or 5 centers is hibbert clearly below?

Keeping in mind, pau gasol is not a center.

Dwight Howard.

And I think you could make the case for any of Marc Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Tyson Chandler, and DeMarcus Cousins. But point taken.

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 10:50 AM
you are all over the place. first you say it's not a favorable situation for Roy and they'll be rebuilding. then you turn it into "they won't win a title soon". Noone is pegging them as a title favorite. Your initial point made no sense though.

It's not favorable to go from Pacers= potential title contenders, this year... to Blazers= rebuilding the next 3...

No one is pegging them as title favorites.. Never said they were. I also NEVER said they would win one soon. I said they wouldnt even compete for one for ATLEAST 3 years.

Ballism, stop hating on my posts buddy. I've been very consistent

ballism
07-02-2012, 10:54 AM
To quote your #1 fan Ballism from a few days ago...

shall we be childish now?


It's not favorable to go from Pacers= potential title contenders, this year... to Blazers= rebuilding the next 3...


and i said that the Blazers wouldn't be rebuilding.



I also NEVER said they would win one soon.
Nor did I say you were.

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 10:58 AM
...which 4 or 5 centers is hibbert clearly below?

Keeping in mind, pau gasol is not a center.

K-Stat, Nice try... I never said "Clearly Below" when referring to Centers in the West...

But, Hibbert is NOT as good as Bynum, Cousins, Marc Gasol, Al Jefferson and probably even Tim Duncan... and for the purpose of consistency, you can add Howard to that list... Because of the list I gave and my comment immediately following.

ballism
07-02-2012, 11:05 AM
Not sure what Howard has to do with it, he's not in the West as of yet.

I don't consider Hibbert a clear All Star in either conference, nor is he certain to miss it. He's a marginal All Star. But Aldridge is a better player than anyone on the Pacers roster, and his defensive and offensive strengths happen to coincide with Roy's weaknesses. It would also be a deep team with a legitimate starter at every spot and enough flexibility to add a bench. They wouldn't be a rebuilding team by any reasonable definition.

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 11:09 AM
Not sure what Howard has to do with it, he's not in the West as of yet.

I don't consider Hibbert a clear All Star in either conference, nor is he certain to miss it. He's a marginal All Star. But Aldridge is a better player than anyone on the Pacers roster, and his defensive and offensive strengths happen to coincide with Roy's weaknesses. It would also be a deep team with a legitimate starter at every spot and enough flexibility to add a bench. They wouldn't be a rebuilding team by any reasonable definition.

"Anyway, the Western conference would be incredible. Most of the teams would have a great center. Howard, Bynum, Cousins, Bogut, two Gasols, Duncan, Anthony Davis, Al Jefferson, Gortat, Pekovic...."--- Ballism (about the possibility of Howard to Houston)

It's cool man... Who's inconsistent now?

ballism
07-02-2012, 11:10 AM
"Anyway, the Western conference would be incredible. Most of the teams would have a great center. Howard, Bynum, Cousins, Bogut, two Gasols, Duncan, Anthony Davis, Al Jefferson, Gortat, Pekovic...."--- Ballism (about the possibility of Howard to Houston)

It's cool man... Who's inconsistent now?

but Howard is not in Houston...

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 11:21 AM
but Howard is not in Houston...

and? What is your point? It was your comment, dude... You can say what you want to about Howard not being in Houston... Doesn't change what you said about most of the teams in the WEST having GREAT Centers...

Ballism, just stop... You can't talk your way out of this one..

OlBlu
07-02-2012, 11:30 AM
It's not favorable to go from Pacers= potential title contenders, this year... to Blazers= rebuilding the next 3...

No one is pegging them as title favorites.. Never said they were. I also NEVER said they would win one soon. I said they wouldnt even compete for one for ATLEAST 3 years.

Ballism, stop hating on my posts buddy. I've been very consistent

Consistently silly. The Pacers are not potential title contenders this year. They have no stars to compete with Boston, Chicago or Miami and they might not compete with Philly or the Knicks either. This year was an aboration. The Pacers played way over their heads. They will come down to earth next year and be the six through eight team they really are.....:cool:

ballism
07-02-2012, 11:34 AM
and? What is your point? It was your comment, dude... You can say what you want to about Howard not being in Houston... Doesn't change what you said about most of the teams in the WEST having GREAT Centers...


they do.
There are ~8-10 of those in the West (depending if we count Pau, and how good is Davis), and ~ 7-8 in the East. Some of them are better than Hibbert, some are not.

but what has Howard got to do with Hibbert not being an All Star in the West? He is not in the West. Yes, you dug up my old post from the Houston trade discussion, which is fine if used properly.
but the way you are using it makes no sense.
I'm sure I said that Yao is a great center 5 years ago; would that be relevant too? Shall we also count Nene?

Steagles
07-02-2012, 11:40 AM
Children, children... Remember Roy is NOT in the West, he is in the east with the Pacers and will be for 4-5 more years after we match.

sportfireman
07-02-2012, 11:42 AM
Didnt see this posted. Sorry if it is already posted.

http://www.wthr.com/story/18930970/hibbert-reaches-verbal-agreement-with-portland


Posted: Jul 02, 2012 8:07 AM CDT Updated: Jul 02, 2012 8:07 AM CDT





The Indiana Pacers says they will do anything to keep Roy Hibbert, but can they match a maximum contract offer from the Portland Trailblazers?

The Pacers big man has at least one serious suitor as free agency begins. The Portland TrailBlazers met with Hibbert at his Washington, D.C. home Sunday and according to several reports they came to a verbal agreement on a maximum contract, four years at $58 million.

The Pacers also met with Hibbert but they did not offer him max money.

Reports are that Hibbert is leaning towards signing an offer sheet from Portland, which would give the Pacers three days to match that money. If they match Hibbert would stay. If they don't Roy is gone.
.

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 11:44 AM
they do.
There are ~8-10 of those in the West (depending if we count Pau, and how good is Davis), and ~ 7-8 in the East. Some of them are better than Hibbert, some are not.

but what has Howard got to do with Hibbert not being an All Star in the West? He is not in the West. Yes, you dug up my old post from the Houston trade discussion, which is fine if used properly.
but the way you are using it makes no sense.
I'm sure I said that Yao is a great center 5 years ago; would that be relevant too? Shall we also count Nene?

Lol, your "old" post i dug up was like... the day of the draft... So, I guess the entire hierarchy of the Western conference centers has drastically changed since a few days ago... Convenient.

ballism
07-02-2012, 11:45 AM
Lol, your "old" post i dug up was like... the day of the draft... So, I guess the entire hierarchy of the Western conference centers has drastically changed since a few days ago... Convenient.
Howard is not in Houston. It's not rocket science.

Cubs231721
07-02-2012, 11:45 AM
I have... It's LMA (all-Star).. Wes Matthews (Solid).. Rookie PG Lillard (Questions whether he can score against NBA Players... Hell, D1 Players are valid)... and 7 Free Agents

Batum, I would say is solid, but even he is considered over-rated and inconsistent by many accounts (Like Hibbert)and his tenure in Portland is being seriously questioned. Especially if the Hibbert deal goes on past July 11th.

The addition of Hibbert may make them contenders for a Playoff Spot. But they are not title contenders for ATLEAST 3 years...

OH, and does anyone want to argue that Roy isn't gonna get his lunch EATEN, NIGHTLY by Western Conference Centers? If he goes over there, he has played in his last All-Star Game...

I'll question the thought that Roy will struggle more against Western Conference centers. While the level of competition will definitely be better over there, I've always felt Roy matches up better with those type of players. He'll have issues with certain matchups, but he also has issues sometimes when teams go small because they double team and front more, both of which are things he struggles with. In the West he should get more 1 on 1's which should help balance out the fact he's playing against better competition. I'm not sure he'll ever be an All-Star because of that competition, but he should be just as good of a player.

To compare, his numbers were a little better against the West than they were against the East this year. 2010 he was better against the East, and 2009 he was better against the West.

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 11:47 AM
Children, children... Remember Roy is NOT in the West, he is in the east with the Pacers and will be for 4-5 more years after we match.

Amen brother... I largely agree

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 11:53 AM
Howard is not in Houston. It's not rocket science.

Good job ballism... you better hang onto that fact, from your quote... Its all you got. As insignificant as it is...

*astrisk*
07-02-2012, 11:54 AM
Don't be mad bro.. just keep hatin!!

ballism
07-02-2012, 12:01 PM
To quote your #1 fan Ballism
Ballism, stop hating on my posts buddy.
K-Stat, Nice try...
It's cool man... Who's inconsistent now?
Ballism, just stop... You can't talk your way out of this one..
Good job ballism... you better hang onto that fact, from your quote... Its all you got. As insignificant as it is...
Don't be mad bro.. just keep hatin!!

instead of focusing on making it personal, rethink your position. it's incoherent. but if you think it's not, feel free to explain it, in a mature way. anyway, good luck.

CableKC
07-02-2012, 12:06 PM
http://www.wthr.com/story/18930970/h...-with-portland


Reports are that Hibbert is leaning towards signing an offer sheet from Portland, which would give the Pacers three days to match that money. If they match Hibbert would stay. If they don't Roy is gone.
Could someone clarify for me?

The Pacers can only match or not match in 3 days ONLY when Hibbert signs the Offer sheet. Did he even sign it yet?

If not and he hasn't signed anything yet, do the Pacers have the option to still send him a bigger Offer Sheet ( as in some contract that is worth $65 mil over 5 years )?

I'm trying to figure out the options we have here.

ballism
07-02-2012, 12:09 PM
Could someone clarify for me?

The Pacers can only match or not match in 3 days ONLY when Hibbert signs the Offer sheet. Did he even sign it yet?

If not and he hasn't signed anything yet, do the Pacers have the option to still send him a bigger Offer Sheet ( as in some contract that is worth $65 mil over 5 years )?

I'm trying to figure out the options we have here.

there's a 10 day freeze period until July 11th. He won't be able to sign any offer until then. Everything that's being reported right now is just agents speaking to teams trying to get as many offers as possible on the 11th.

CJ Jones
07-02-2012, 04:12 PM
I'll bet it all blows over really quick once he re-signs.

Yeah, but it will only be temporary unless he elevates his game and performs like a max player. I'm not sure he's mentally strong enough to take the pressure that will come with him being the highest paid player. In the past he seemed to get a pass when he struggled because of his contract and because everyone loves the guys personality, but that won't be the case now. He'll have to be consistently good or he'll feel the wrath of the fanbase... something he's never had to deal with before. How's he gonna handle that?


Right. There's just no way Hibbert would make the all star team in the west over the immortal Marc Gasol!

Marc Gasol>Hibbert. Head to Head Gasol owns him.

Gasol also plays 36 mpg compared to Hibberts 30. That's half a quarter a game. If Hibbert could stay on the floor that long I'd feel a lot better about giving him the max. Are there any other max guys that can't play 3/4 of a game?

ChicagoJ
07-02-2012, 05:25 PM
I'll bet it all blows over really quick once he re-signs.

I remember how pissed off Reggie Miller was during 1996 when the Knicks signed Allan Houston. But Donnie Walsh wasn't a fool. When Reggie was in NY flirting with them, We had a couple of SGs in town for meetings. At least Bryan Stith, and maybe Mitch Richmond (its been 16 years, can't pull all of these things off the top of the head anymore.)

(EDIT - or beat PacerTom to the punchline.)

MnvrChvy
07-02-2012, 09:26 PM
Howard is not in Houston. It's not rocket science.

:rimshot:


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