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View Full Version : Plumlee the next Gadzuric?



Rogco
06-29-2012, 02:47 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/drafttracker

From CBS Sports. If you hold your mouse over the yellow next to the player's name it brings up who they compare the player too. Plumlee compares to Gadzuric of the Knicks. That made me laugh, everyone else in the first round was compared to good players...

BornReady#6
06-29-2012, 02:56 PM
Gadzuric no, Josh Harrellson/ Jeff Foster yes

but for the record in 04-05 Gadz avg. 7pts. 8rbs. and 1 blck in 81 games, just not healthy, and old now.

Lance George
06-29-2012, 03:22 PM
Joel Przybilla (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/przybjo01.html) comes to mind for me. Similar size, and both are surprisingly athletic. Joel was given a much bigger offensive role at Minnesota than Plumlee was at Duke, but I think their NBA careers could be quite similar. Not much on offense, but good rebounding and defense.

Speed
06-29-2012, 03:26 PM
If Miles can knock someone on their butt with a good clean hard foul in a heated playoff series, I don't care who they compare him to. :D

Heisenberg
06-29-2012, 04:14 PM
If Miles can knock someone on their butt with a good clean hard foul in a heated playoff series, I don't care who they compare him to. :D
That's pretty much my biggest hope for him. At least become a goon.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 04:24 PM
Gadzuric was way way way more productive in college: 11.7 ppg, 8.6 rpg, double the blocks, more games played, more minutes played

Joel Pryzbila put up 14.2 ppg, 8.4 rpg, with 4 blocks per game against Big 10 opponents.
Solomon Jones put up 13.2 ppg, 9.8 rpg
Uwe Blab put up 16.0 ppg, 6.3 rpg
Greg Dreiling put up 13.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg
Stuart Gray put up 9.9 ppg, 7.9 rpg
Chris Dudley put up 17.8 ppg 13.3 rpg
John Koncak put up 17.2 ppg, 10.7 rpg
Greg Kite sort of comes close: 7.7 ppg, 8.8 rpg
Greg Ostertag maxed out at 10.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg
Greg Steimsma is comparable, though Greg was undrafted.

Ezram Lorbek is very comparable: he averaged 6.4 points and 3.3 rebounds per game in his only season at MSU. but he was just a freshman then. Miles as a freshman logged 1.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg. Lorbek played 3 years in Europe before he was drafted, though

I am not aware of any less productive college center ever drafted straight into the NBA. Meaning, based upon college production, Miles is the biggest stiff in NBA draft history

Usually when UNC Greensboro holds you scoreless and a guy named Aloysius playing center for them outplays you, scouts don't get all amped up.

BornReady#6
06-29-2012, 04:28 PM
But did Gadz ever look this good?

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/396054_10151013178252996_672382334_n.jpg

Heisenberg
06-29-2012, 04:29 PM
Gadzuric was way way way more productive in college: 11.7 ppg, 8.6 rpg, double the blocks, more games played, more minutes played

Joel Pryzbila put up 14.2 ppg, 8.4 rpg, with 4 blocks per game against Big 10 opponents.
Solomon Jones put up 13.2 ppg, 9.8 rpg
Uwe Blab put up 16.0 ppg, 6.3 rpg
Greg Dreiling put up 13.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg
Stuart Gray put up 9.9 ppg, 7.9 rpg
Chris Dudley put up 17.8 ppg 13.3 rpg
John Koncak put up 17.2 ppg, 10.7 rpg
Greg Kite sort of comes close: 7.7 ppg, 8.8 rpg
Greg Ostertag maxed out at 10.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg
Greg Steimsma is comparable, though Greg was undrafted.

Ezram Lorbek is very comparable: he averaged 6.4 points and 3.3 rebounds per game in his only season at MSU. but he was just a freshman then. Miles as a freshman logged 1.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg. Lorbek played 3 years in Europe before he was drafted, though

I am not aware of any less productive college center ever drafted straight into the NBA. Meaning, based upon college production, Miles is the biggest stiff in NBA draft history

Usually when UNC Greensboro holds you scoreless and a guy named Aloysius playing center for them outplays you, scouts don't get all amped up.

Daniel Orton

Lance George
06-29-2012, 04:32 PM
Gadzuric was way way way more productive in college: 11.7 ppg, 8.6 rpg, double the blocks, more games played, more minutes played

Joel Pryzbila put up 14.2 ppg, 8.4 rpg, with 4 blocks per game against Big 10 opponents.
Solomon Jones put up 13.2 ppg, 9.8 rpg
Uwe Blab put up 16.0 ppg, 6.3 rpg
Greg Dreiling put up 13.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg
Stuart Gray put up 9.9ppg, 7.9 rpg
Chris Dudley put up 17.8 ppg 13.3 rpg
John Koncak put up 17.2 ppg, 10.7 rpg
Greg Kite sort of comes close: 7.7ppg, 8.8 rpg
Greg Steimsma is comparable, though Greg was undrafted.

Ezram Lorbek is very comparable: he averaged 6.4 points and 3.3 rebounds per game in his only season at MSU. but he was just a freshman then. Miles as a freshman logged 1.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg. Lorbek played 3 years in Europe before he was drafted, though

I am not aware of any less productive college center ever drafted straight into the NBA. Meaning, based upon college production, Miles is the biggest stiff in NBA draft history

Usually when UNC Greensboro holds you scoreless and a guy named Aloysius playing center for them outplays you, scouts don't get all amped up.

You're getting too caught up in the scoring. No one thinks he'll do much offensively. He was brought in to rebound and defend, and he does both of those things very well.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 04:41 PM
Daniel Orton

Orton put up 3.4ppg, 3.3 rpg as a freshman, then went pro. Plumlee's freshman stats were far worse by a factor of two, though he didn't go pro then.

Therefore, you may be correct in saying that Orton is the biggest stiff in NBA draft history, based on college production immediately before declaring. Miles is second.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 04:45 PM
You're getting too caught up in the scoring. No one thinks he'll do much offensively. He was brought in to rebound and defend, and he does both of those things very well.

That's why I listed rebounding stats. All except Uwe Blab and Greg Dreiling were superior.

We could get into defense too. I'd have to look at the game tape to see just how people like Matt Howard and Aloysius Henry took him to the woodshed.

Lance George
06-29-2012, 04:48 PM
I am not aware of any less productive college center ever drafted straight into the NBA. Meaning, based upon college production, Miles is the biggest stiff in NBA draft history

Greg Ostertag (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/ostergr01.html): 7.3 points, 5.7 rebounds as a senior.

Drafted 28th overall by the Jazz, and, of course, went on to be the starting center in their back-to-back Finals teams.

Plumlee isn't quite as big as Ostertag, but his athleticism is on a whole different planet.

Edit: Actually, it looks like Adam Keefe was their starting center for their second Finals team. Whatever.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 05:02 PM
As a senior, Ostertag was a worse rebounder and better scorer than Plumlee, as you indicated.

Ostertag was much much better his junior year, 10.3 ppg & 8.8 rpg so he had a more productive college career in total, being better also as a freshman and sophomore in every category.

Does jumping equate with athleticism? Based on film, he is poor /non-physical in one-on-one defense, slow in help defense, has poor footwork, has questionable hands, is very slow to react, and while he can elevate high, he is very SLOW to elevate. All of those attributes are indicative of poor athleticism, IMO.

His agent & trainer should be commended for their help with the jumping tests and the cone drill.

Lance George
06-29-2012, 06:40 PM
Slick Pinkham, what are your thoughts on Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html) averaging 12.0 points and 8.4 rebounds as a junior, his final season before entering the NBA Draft? Does such underwhelming production (lesser than Solo Jones') mean Noah will fail at the NBA, or is such a view far too simplistic?

You're making two errors in your critiquing of Plumlee.

One, you're focusing too much on scoring, which is something no one expects, nor needs, Plumlee to do. He's not a scorer, and he wasn't drafted to be one. There's more to basketball than scoring.

Secondly, you're not taking into account minutes played. You're not gonna find many NBA prospects who put up numbers as underwhelming as Plumlee's because most NBA prospects play more than 20.5 minutes per game. Of course, this begs the question as to why an NBA prospect is playing just 20,.5 minutes per game. I'm no Duke expert, but it looks as if he had to split center minutes with another NBA prospect, his brother, and with Ryan Kelly, one of Duke's better scorers. Considering how disappointing Duke's season was, I think it's fair to say Miles probably should've been given more minutes.

Per-40 numbers...

http://oi47.tinypic.com/24qtjr5.jpg (http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?year=2011%2F12&q=&per=pergame&qual=prospects&sort=21&min=20&stage=all&league=NCAA&conference=0&Compare=Submit+Comparison&pos=C&sort2=DESC&pid[35315]=35315&pid[48435]=48435&pid[58907]=58907&pid[34795]=34795&pid[34891]=34891&pid[35835]=35835&pid[47846]=47846)

On a per-minute basis, amongst centers, he was the best rebounder (maybe the best rebounder in the draft, period) and the most efficient scorer. Also, he was third in PER, behind Zeller (17th pick), and Leonard (11th).

He's being brought into to fill Foster's role as a rebounder, defender, and high-efficiency garbage scorer. I've seen no evidence to suggest that he doesn't have all the tools to fill that role. Repeatedly rambling on about his college production does nothing to refute the fact that he's proven to be an elite rebounder with the size and athleticism that will make him amongst the most physically gifted centers in the league.


Anyway, some other recent centers who weren't exactly world beaters in college:

Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html): 12.0 points, 8.4 rebounds. 9th.
Samuel Dalembert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dalemsa01.html): 8.3 points, 5.7 rebounds (sophomore). 26th.
DeAndre Jordan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordade01.html): 7.9 points, 6.0 rebounds (freshmen). Second round.
Robin Lopez (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lopezro01.html): 10.2 points, 5.7 rebounds. 15th.

Pingu
06-29-2012, 06:53 PM
Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html): 12.0 points, 8.4 rebounds. 9th.


I agree with everything you say but note that Noah played a big role on a team that won back-to-back NCAA titles (and he was MOP of the Final Four in 2006).

Rogco
06-29-2012, 07:22 PM
You're getting too caught up in the scoring. No one thinks he'll do much offensively. He was brought in to rebound and defend, and he does both of those things very well.

Isn't he considered a mediocre defender with poor shot-blocking ability for his size and a penchant for checking out of games mentally. Also, wasn't he labelled a bit soft?

MiaDragon
06-29-2012, 07:29 PM
Isn't he considered a mediocre defender with poor shot-blocking ability for his size and a penchant for checking out of games mentally. Also, wasn't he labelled a bit soft?

Yep all those things. He does jump real high, there's always that.

speakout4
06-29-2012, 07:29 PM
Seriously anybody confusing Plumlee and Noah?

Tom White
06-29-2012, 08:10 PM
Considering how disappointing Duke's season was, I think it's fair to say Miles probably should've been given more minutes.

Or, their season could have been worse had he been given more minutes. There was likely a good reason for limiting his minutes. Coach K isn't an idiot.

Seriously, I don't have a solid opinion on whether he will be worth a darn or not. I simply didn't watch Duke play much. I'll just say that from what I do know of him, and of other players who were available in the draft at 26, I think a better choice could have been made. Maybe multiple better choices.

BobbyMac
06-29-2012, 08:16 PM
I think I'll wait a bit before suggesting that the Pacers wasted their choice. Way too many "can't miss" guys have been flops and way too many people have surprised the pundits by developing into NBA players. Time will tell...

2minutes twoa
06-29-2012, 10:34 PM
I think I'll wait a bit before suggesting that the Pacers wasted their choice. Way too many "can't miss" guys have been flops and way too many people have surprised the pundits by developing into NBA players. Time will tell...

Agreed! I'm pretty sure nobody on this board was invited to watch him work out at Bankers Life. And the opinions of Bird, Pritchard, Walsh, Foster and Roy carry a little more weight than ours. Definitely a curious pick at 26, but I look forward to seeing how he performs with the second unit.

Nuntius
06-30-2012, 10:19 AM
Coach K isn't an idiot.


He is not an idiot but he can make mistakes. He's just a human being after all.