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Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 12:22 PM
I mean I like the rivalry and I wish it could have continued with full rosters. But let's be real here(I know you don't want to hear it from a Pistons fan).

Ron Artest ran up damn near 6 rows of seats to attack a fan!! Stephen Jackson ran up like 10 and he didn't even have anything to do with any of the incidents!! If anything he should have gotten what Artest did. Jermaine O'Neal punched a guy as hard as he could while the guy was trying to get off the floor after he was punched by Artest for no reason. You guys cannot be mad at Stern for handing down his punishment. All of those actions were uncalled for.

If Artest would have kept his cool. The guy that threw the cup would have been escorted(possibly arrested)out of the building and everything would have been cool.

You say this is Ben's fault and deserves more time? You can't be serious. Ben has caught up emotion mad because he is losing and gets fouled hard. He probably felt Artest was really trying to hurt him(I don't think he was, but when you are already frustrated stuff is amplified). He pushed Artest and it was broken up. That's a one game suspension, 2 games max. All that other stuff was do to Artest's short temper.

Given Artest's past, he got what he deserved. You can't really argue for him. Sjax got what he deserved and probably needed more because he perpetuated what was going on by going out in the crowd himself to fight. JO's punishment may have been too harsh because he never went into the stands, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he punched a fan square in the face as hard as he could for no reason.

MagicRat
11-22-2004, 12:25 PM
:rolleyes:

zxc
11-22-2004, 12:28 PM
:rolleyes: indeed

Harddrive7
11-22-2004, 12:31 PM
Get your facts right at least, JO didn't hit the guy that Ron punched, Jermaine hit the guy that rushed Ron AFTER Ron punched the first guy on the court.

Ragnar
11-22-2004, 12:34 PM
Liquid I am not saying the shove should gen Ben suspended for the season. I am saying that when he started throwing things at Ron he insighted the fans to throw things.

No fan threw anything until Ben started throwing things. Thats why he should get the same punishment as Ron.

Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 12:36 PM
Get your facts right at least, JO didn't hit the guy that Ron punched, Jermaine hit the guy that rushed Ron AFTER Ron punched the first guy on the court.

Actually it was the same guy. I played it back over and over again on my TiVo.

Shade
11-22-2004, 12:37 PM
I mean I like the rivalry and I wish it could have continued with full rosters. But let's be real here(I know you don't want to hear it from a Pistons fan).

Ron Artest ran up damn near 6 rows of seats to attack a fan!! Stephen Jackson ran up like 10 and he didn't even have anything to do with any of the incidents!! If anything he should have gotten what Artest did. Jermaine O'Neal punched a guy as hard as he could while the guy was trying to get off the floor after he was punched by Artest for no reason. You guys cannot be mad at Stern for handing down his punishment. All of those actions were uncalled for.

If Artest would have kept his cool. The guy that threw the cup would have been escorted(possibly arrested)out of the building and everything would have been cool.

You say this is Ben's fault and deserves more time? You can't be serious. Ben has caught up emotion mad because he is losing and gets fouled hard. He probably felt Artest was really trying to hurt him(I don't think he was, but when you are already frustrated stuff is amplified). He pushed Artest and it was broken up. That's a one game suspension, 2 games max. All that other stuff was do to Artest's short temper.

Given Artest's past, he got what he deserved. You can't really argue for him. Sjax got what he deserved and probably needed more because he perpetuated what was going on by going out in the crowd himself to fight. JO's punishment may have been too harsh because he never went into the stands, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he punched a fan square in the face as hard as he could for no reason.

Dude, YOU can't be serious.

I don't think any of us are condoning Ron's or Jax's actions, but for the fans to get off scott-free is absurd and an insult to everyone. There was vastly insufficient security to protect the players. And though Ron was over the top in his response, he has the right to defend himself.

And why is Ben allowed a free pass because he was emotional? As everyone has said, the foul wasn't that hard, and Ben WAY overreacted. He shoved Artest, refused to leave the floor once tossed, then incited the riot that followed by throwing his towel at Ron. It's no coincidence that the cup came flying down seconds later.

What Stern has said by this is that it's okay to incite a riot, but not okay to retaliate or protect yourself. JO was completely justified and taking that guy down. He was tresspassing and deserved what he got. And the guy that Ron laid out was starting **** with him on the floor.

I completely agree that your account of this is revisionist history. I know you're a Pistons fan and all, but jeez dude. :rolleyes:

Ragnar
11-22-2004, 12:40 PM
Get your facts right at least, JO didn't hit the guy that Ron punched, Jermaine hit the guy that rushed Ron AFTER Ron punched the first guy on the court.

Actually it was the same guy. I played it back over and over again on my TiVo.

Then play it again. Two guys came onto the court, the idiot who raised his fists got hit by Ron. The other idiot got hit by someone in a suit (posibly chuck) and then Jermaine hit him.

Arcadian
11-22-2004, 12:41 PM
Slap, now is not the time. Our season has been screwed and Pacer fans have been punished for what Piston fans were involved in. Please let us vent in peace.

Manuel
11-22-2004, 12:42 PM
No it wasn't. I know they looked very similar but it wasn't the same guy. The one Jermaine punched was the fatter version. Go back and look at it again, notice after Ron punches the first guy another fan tries to grab Ron and that is the guy that Jermaine punched.

Unclebuck
11-22-2004, 12:44 PM
You are being a poor winner. Weren't you ever taught not to rub it in. The Pistons fans won, the Pistons organization won, your main competitor is decimated and you come over here to what, gloat.

What do you want from us at this point, you have taken almost everything from us and you want us to now see things your way.

The jury has ruled in your favor, you won the trial. You were guilty but you won, now please just leave us alone.

Vicious Tyrant
11-22-2004, 12:44 PM
[quote=Liquid] But let's be real here[\quote]

Yes, lets.

[quote]Ron Artest ran up damn near 6 rows of seats to attack a fan!! Stephen Jackson ran up like 10 and he didn't even have anything to do with any of the incidents!! If anything he should have gotten what Artest did.[\quote]

You're correct.

[quote]Jermaine O'Neal punched a guy as hard as he could while the guy was trying to get off the floor after he was punched by Artest for no reason.[\quote]

Uh oh, you're starting to veer off course here. Punched for no reason? What was the fan doing on the floor? This is a swing and a miss.

[quote]If Artest would have kept his cool. The guy that threw the cup would have been escorted(possibly arrested)out of the building and everything would have been cool.[\quote]

I'd like to think you're right here, but I'm not going to share your confidence. I think we can agree that this is what ~should~ have happened.

[quote]You say this is Ben's fault and deserves more time? You can't be serious. Ben has caught up emotion mad because he is losing and gets fouled hard.[\quote]

Too bad he was upset, that doesn't excuse him

[quote] He probably felt Artest was really trying to hurt him(I don't think he was, but when you are already frustrated stuff is amplified). He pushed Artest and it was broken up. That's a one game suspension, 2 games max. All that other stuff was do to Artest's short temper.[\quote]

No, he thought Ron hurt his pride. Ben was not trying to protect himself, he was trying to protect his pride.

[quote]Given Artest's past, he got what he deserved. [\quote]

Now I can see why you think that, but the situation should stand on its own whether its Artest, Duncan, Rasheed, or whoever. The act should get judged on its own merit, not the past and certainly not on popularity (which I think played a big role here)

[quote]You can't really argue for him. Sjax got what he deserved and probably needed more because he perpetuated what was going on by going out in the crowd himself to fight. JO's punishment may have been too harsh because he never went into the stands, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he punched a fan square in the face as hard as he could for no reason.[\quote]

Agree.

Now let's get real about handling the Detroit part of things, eh?

Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 12:45 PM
I mean I like the rivalry and I wish it could have continued with full rosters. But let's be real here(I know you don't want to hear it from a Pistons fan).

Ron Artest ran up damn near 6 rows of seats to attack a fan!! Stephen Jackson ran up like 10 and he didn't even have anything to do with any of the incidents!! If anything he should have gotten what Artest did. Jermaine O'Neal punched a guy as hard as he could while the guy was trying to get off the floor after he was punched by Artest for no reason. You guys cannot be mad at Stern for handing down his punishment. All of those actions were uncalled for.

If Artest would have kept his cool. The guy that threw the cup would have been escorted(possibly arrested)out of the building and everything would have been cool.

You say this is Ben's fault and deserves more time? You can't be serious. Ben has caught up emotion mad because he is losing and gets fouled hard. He probably felt Artest was really trying to hurt him(I don't think he was, but when you are already frustrated stuff is amplified). He pushed Artest and it was broken up. That's a one game suspension, 2 games max. All that other stuff was do to Artest's short temper.

Given Artest's past, he got what he deserved. You can't really argue for him. Sjax got what he deserved and probably needed more because he perpetuated what was going on by going out in the crowd himself to fight. JO's punishment may have been too harsh because he never went into the stands, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he punched a fan square in the face as hard as he could for no reason.

Dude, YOU can't be serious.

I don't think any of us are condoning Ron's or Jax's actions, but for the fans to get off scott-free is absurd and an insult to everyone. There was vastly insufficient security to protect the players. And though Ron was over the top in his response, he has the right to defend himself.

And why is Ben allowed a free pass because he was emotional? As everyone has said, the foul wasn't that hard, and Ben WAY overreacted. He shoved Artest, refused to leave the floor once tossed, then incited the riot that followed by throwing his towel at Ron. It's no coincidence that the cup came flying down seconds later.

What Stern has said by this is that it's okay to incite a riot, but not okay to retaliate or protect yourself. JO was completely justified and taking that guy down. He was tresspassing and deserved what he got. And the guy that Ron laid out was starting **** with him on the floor.

I completely agree that your account of this is revisionist history. I know you're a Pistons fan and all, but jeez dude. :rolleyes:


Man, I am no psychic but I believe that guy would have thrown that cup whether Ben threw that towel or not.

I also don't care what anyone says, It wouldn't be enough security in any arena in the NBA to stop what happened that night.

tseramid
11-22-2004, 12:47 PM
That second guy in the suit I thought at first was Bender, but given the suspensions, it must have been Anthony Johnson. As many times as I saw the incidents, it is really difficult to piece together who was who, but it's the only reason I can think of why Johnson got the 5 games. If that is the case, why Johnson and JO got wildly different suspension times is beyond me.

ChicagoJ
11-22-2004, 12:48 PM
Get your facts right at least, JO didn't hit the guy that Ron punched, Jermaine hit the guy that rushed Ron AFTER Ron punched the first guy on the court.

Actually it was the same guy. I played it back over and over again on my TiVo.

Then play it again. Two guys came onto the court, the idiot who raised his fists got hit by Ron. The other idiot got hit by someone in a suit (posibly chuck) and then Jermaine hit him.


No, it was AJ. Chuck makes his first appearance on the court as AJ is being pulled away from that punch and as JO is swooping in for the next round.

Slap and Ragnar - watch ESPN's latest footing - its clear that AJ and JO did not punch the same guy Ron punched, and its also clear that it was not Chuck because you see him enter the court from beyond the baseline, realize that Ron's about to get hit by mace, and sprint out to pull Ron away from the police officers.

waxman
11-22-2004, 12:48 PM
Liquid I am not saying the shove should gen Ben suspended for the season. I am saying that when he started throwing things at Ron he insighted the fans to throw things.

No fan threw anything until Ben started throwing things. Thats why he should get the same punishment as Ron.

Word... the incident was over until B.Wallace continued... and started throwing ****....definately insighting the fans to do the same.....

As far as what happened in front of the Pacers bench....there were like 2 or 3 fans, Ron, and AJ that had all fallen to the floor because there was spilled liquid ....All JO saw was his teammates and some fans on the floor and he went over to back them up.

I can't believe they can hand down these suspensions without hearing out the players in this situation.

Ragnar
11-22-2004, 12:49 PM
Man, I am no psychic but I believe that guy would have thrown that cup whether Ben threw that towel or not.

I also don't care what anyone says, It wouldn't be enough security in any arena in the NBA to stop what happened that night.

You have to be psychic to think he would have thrown it otherwise. No one threw anything until Ben did.

Harddrive7
11-22-2004, 12:51 PM
The jury has ruled in your favor, you won the trial. You were guilty but you won, now please just leave us alone.

The OJ (Liquid Slap) Simpson theory

Unclebuck
11-22-2004, 12:59 PM
Please, Pistons fans don't come to Conseco anymore, we don't want you, you were obnoxious last spring, so please don't ruin our Christmas, stay home and count your winnings

Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 01:05 PM
You are being a poor winner. Weren't you ever taught not to rub it in. The Pistons fans won, the Pistons organization won, your main competitor is decimated and you come over here to what, gloat.

What do you want from us at this point, you have taken almost everything from us and you want us to now see things your way.

The jury has ruled in your favor, you won the trial. You were guilty but you won, now please just leave us alone.


I am not here to gloat. I was merely stating my opinion as you are supposed to do on messageboards.

Like I said before. I liked the rivalry between the 2 teams. I was starting to count down the days to the Christmas matchup since we had already lost the first of 4.

Unfortunately, now all I am going to hear is Pacers got screwed. If it wasn't for Ben blah blah blah. The Pistons fans blah blah blah. We would have beaten the Pistons in the ECFs if it wasn't for blah blah blah. If we would have had our whole team yada yada yada.

I would have rather had a wonderful rivalry and have the Pistons lose than to hear everyone cry about what happened for the rest of the entire year.

Grant
11-22-2004, 01:06 PM
I'm probably in the minority for this, but I do think that Ben got hit a little too hard. If the beer had not been thrown, and the game had just ended normally, he would have gotten 2 or 3 games. The problem with this is the blame can be laid everywhwere.

If Carlisle would have taken Artest out at the end of a blowout he would not have fouled Wallace.
If Artest had not fouled Wallace Ben would not have pushed him.
If Wallace had not pushed Ron there would not have been a fight.
If there had not been a fight the fans would not have thrown things.
If the fans had not thrown things the players would not have fought.
If the players would not have fought they would not have been suspended.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around, but consider this:

Only the Piston fans acted without provocation.

Kstat
11-22-2004, 01:12 PM
1st of all, SLAP, just go, man. You're just pissing people off more with your comments.

How would you feel if half our roster got suspended 100+ games?

I'd like to think that I'd see it logically, but thats a HELL of a lot of crap to put up with.

Also, as has been stated before, you're not coming here correctly, and you're saying things that AREN'T true.

You're not going to win this argument.

And UB, I'll be at Conseco in January, whether you like it or not. Sorry, but that's the truth. Anyone that has a problem with it can come see me at the game. I'll even give you my seat number.

And if there were any winners friday night, please point me in their direction, because I sure don't feel like I won a damn thing.

Hicks
11-22-2004, 01:16 PM
Thank you, Kstat, and good post.

Re: UB's comments about fans, I'll explain it, and I also agree. We're referring to the mobs of fans. The ones that throw the beers, the flood our arena and act like jerks. Those guys can stay the **** home.

Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 01:20 PM
1st of all, SLAP, just go, man. You're just pissing people off more with your comments.

How would you feel if half our roster got suspended 100+ games?

I'd like to think that I'd see it logically, but thats a HELL of a lot of crap to put up with.

Also, as has been stated before, you're not coming here correctly, and you're saying things that AREN'T true.

You're not going to win this argument.

And UB, I'll be at Conseco in January, whether you like it or not. Sorry, but that's the truth. Anyone that has a problem with it can come see me at the game. I'll even give you my seat number.

And if there were any winners friday night, please point me in their direction, because I sure don't feel like I won a damn thing.


The only thing I may have said that isn't true is JO and Artest punched the same guy. That could be/is wrong. Fact still remains that JO came out the blue to smash a cats face in. When he wasn't involved with the situation.

and also, Just like you will be in Conseco, i will be on the messageboard stating my opinion. Everything is not peaches and cream and there will be disagreements and I am fine with that.

Reggie4Three
11-22-2004, 01:21 PM
You are being a poor winner. Weren't you ever taught not to rub it in. The Pistons fans won, the Pistons organization won, your main competitor is decimated and you come over here to what, gloat.

What do you want from us at this point, you have taken almost everything from us and you want us to now see things your way.

The jury has ruled in your favor, you won the trial. You were guilty but you won, now please just leave us alone.


I am not here to gloat. I was merely stating my opinion as you are supposed to do on messageboards.

Like I said before. I liked the rivalry between the 2 teams. I was starting to count down the days to the Christmas matchup since we had already lost the first of 4.

Unfortunately, now all I am going to hear is Pacers got screwed. If it wasn't for Ben blah blah blah. The Pistons fans blah blah blah. We would have beaten the Pistons in the ECFs if it wasn't for blah blah blah. If we would have had our whole team yada yada yada.

I would have rather had a wonderful rivalry and have the Pistons lose than to hear everyone cry about what happened for the rest of the entire year.

You're going to hear that because that's what happened. The Pistons have not beaten the Pacers once in two year when all of our vital players are healthy. You were lucky to catch us injured last year, and, even though I still don't think you'll win it this year, you'll be lucky if you do because your division rival that waxed you has been taken out of the picture. I'll go so far as to say that if the Pistons DON'T win the title now, it proves they are a fluke. Even if they do, they still won't be viewed with the same legitimacy as past champoins like the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers.

Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 01:26 PM
You are being a poor winner. Weren't you ever taught not to rub it in. The Pistons fans won, the Pistons organization won, your main competitor is decimated and you come over here to what, gloat.

What do you want from us at this point, you have taken almost everything from us and you want us to now see things your way.

The jury has ruled in your favor, you won the trial. You were guilty but you won, now please just leave us alone.


I am not here to gloat. I was merely stating my opinion as you are supposed to do on messageboards.

Like I said before. I liked the rivalry between the 2 teams. I was starting to count down the days to the Christmas matchup since we had already lost the first of 4.

Unfortunately, now all I am going to hear is Pacers got screwed. If it wasn't for Ben blah blah blah. The Pistons fans blah blah blah. We would have beaten the Pistons in the ECFs if it wasn't for blah blah blah. If we would have had our whole team yada yada yada.

I would have rather had a wonderful rivalry and have the Pistons lose than to hear everyone cry about what happened for the rest of the entire year.

You're going to hear that because that's what happened. The Pistons have not beaten the Pacers once in two year when all of our vital players are healthy. You were lucky to catch us injured last year, and, even though I still don't think you'll win it this year, you'll be lucky if you do because your division rival that waxed you has been taken out of the picture. I'll go so far as to say that if the Pistons DON'T win the title now, it proves they are a fluke. Even if they do, they still won't be viewed with the same legitimacy as past champoins like the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers.


And that's the main reason why I would rather have Indiana at full strength for the entire season to prove to everyone who was better.

Could have been Pistons.
Could have been Pacers.
But now we won't know because of stupid crap.

Kstat
11-22-2004, 01:29 PM
I'll go so far as to say that if the Pistons DON'T win the title now, it proves they are a fluke. Even if they do, they still won't be viewed with the same legitimacy as past champoins like the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers.

This is somewhat hijacking this thread, but maybe this thread needs it.

You can find some sort of comfort in believing our title last year was a fluke, I suppose.

Frankly, I don't care.

There is no such thing as a fluke title. You either win it or you don't. Injuries are a part of the game. How "legit" they are doesn't matter to me, only the 2004 banner that hangs from the rafters.

You think I care that a team of role players isn't going to go down with Jordan's Bulls? What do I care?

I don't care if its 1, 2, 3, or 8 in a row, a championship by itself is preiceless, and absultely NOTHING can take away from that.

Harddrive7
11-22-2004, 01:33 PM
Too bad that the fact that the Pacers totally HANDED the Pistons their butts with Reggie, AJ, and Foster on the bench is gone.


I think that's what makes me the maddest at times. Just knowing that we played a phenominal game against the champs, in their house, the Pistons being at full strength, and it's all overshadowed by this.

That really hurts the most at times.

Reggie4Three
11-22-2004, 01:40 PM
I'll go so far as to say that if the Pistons DON'T win the title now, it proves they are a fluke. Even if they do, they still won't be viewed with the same legitimacy as past champoins like the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers.

This is somewhat hijacking this thread, but maybe this thread needs it.

You can find some sort of comfort in believing our title last year was a fluke, I suppose.

Frankly, I don't care.

There is no such thing as a fluke title. You either win it or you don't. Injuries are a part of the game. How "legit" they are doesn't matter to me, only the 2004 banner that hangs from the rafters.

You think I care that a team of role players isn't going to go down with Jordan's Bulls? What do I care?

I don't care if its 1, 2, 3, or 8 in a row, a championship by itself is preiceless, and absultely NOTHING can take away from that.

Nor would I expect a Pistons fan to care. Obviously they'll take another championship by any means necessary to get it.

Let's get one other thing straight. I know you are buddy-buddy with a few of the main people here but I don't respect you at all. You have proven to me over the past year + that you are no more objective, and possibly less so, than any of the homer fans here and you probably know less about basketball than most of them as well. You will obviously stick around and have your say here, but I know I'm not buying most of the BS that you post.

Kstat
11-22-2004, 01:40 PM
Actually, you didn't.

Smush Parker, who you abused for 4 or 5 turnovers, shouldn't have even played.

Carlos Delfino, our best reserve guard BY FAR, was on IR. He's easily the best ballhandler on the team, and I don't think many of the turnovers we committed would have happened with him in the game.

Eindar
11-22-2004, 01:41 PM
I mean I like the rivalry and I wish it could have continued with full rosters. But let's be real here(I know you don't want to hear it from a Pistons fan).

Ron Artest ran up damn near 6 rows of seats to attack a fan!! Stephen Jackson ran up like 10 and he didn't even have anything to do with any of the incidents!! If anything he should have gotten what Artest did. Jermaine O'Neal punched a guy as hard as he could while the guy was trying to get off the floor after he was punched by Artest for no reason. You guys cannot be mad at Stern for handing down his punishment. All of those actions were uncalled for.

If Artest would have kept his cool. The guy that threw the cup would have been escorted(possibly arrested)out of the building and everything would have been cool.

You say this is Ben's fault and deserves more time? You can't be serious. Ben has caught up emotion mad because he is losing and gets fouled hard. He probably felt Artest was really trying to hurt him(I don't think he was, but when you are already frustrated stuff is amplified). He pushed Artest and it was broken up. That's a one game suspension, 2 games max. All that other stuff was do to Artest's short temper.

Given Artest's past, he got what he deserved. You can't really argue for him. Sjax got what he deserved and probably needed more because he perpetuated what was going on by going out in the crowd himself to fight. JO's punishment may have been too harsh because he never went into the stands, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he punched a fan square in the face as hard as he could for no reason.

Dude, YOU can't be serious.

I don't think any of us are condoning Ron's or Jax's actions, but for the fans to get off scott-free is absurd and an insult to everyone. There was vastly insufficient security to protect the players. And though Ron was over the top in his response, he has the right to defend himself.

And why is Ben allowed a free pass because he was emotional? As everyone has said, the foul wasn't that hard, and Ben WAY overreacted. He shoved Artest, refused to leave the floor once tossed, then incited the riot that followed by throwing his towel at Ron. It's no coincidence that the cup came flying down seconds later.

What Stern has said by this is that it's okay to incite a riot, but not okay to retaliate or protect yourself. JO was completely justified and taking that guy down. He was tresspassing and deserved what he got. And the guy that Ron laid out was starting **** with him on the floor.

I completely agree that your account of this is revisionist history. I know you're a Pistons fan and all, but jeez dude. :rolleyes:


Man, I am no psychic but I believe that guy would have thrown that cup whether Ben threw that towel or not.

I also don't care what anyone says, It wouldn't be enough security in any arena in the NBA to stop what happened that night.

Ya, but there are very few arenas in the NBA that would have had an incident like that night. I feel comfortable saying that had the roles been reversed and McDyess had gone into the stands to confront one of our fans, our other fans would have held him down until security could get there. I highly doubt they would start fighting the players in the stands, and I can guarantee you they wouldn't invade the court to fight the players. In fact, I feel comfortable saying that most of the fans in that situation would have just run towards the rafters. None of our players' brothers would be sucker-punching McDyess, because we keep our family members on the other side of the court. I can unequivocably say this would NEVER have happened in Conseco fieldhouse, and I can also speculate that I don't think it would happen in 90% of venues in the NBA. The 3 that really come to mind where it COULD happen is Detroit, Philly, and Boston.

ahhteeth
11-22-2004, 01:44 PM
He probably felt Artest was really trying to hurt him(I don't think he was, but when you are already frustrated stuff is amplified).

So basically your saying it's fine if a piston is frustrated from playing a game and to do something uncalled for but not for a Pacer.

Congratulations Liquid Slap, you are now officially the biggest hypocrite on this board.

Harddrive7
11-22-2004, 01:45 PM
So (1) of your reserves would have made the difference?

Kstat
11-22-2004, 01:46 PM
I'll go so far as to say that if the Pistons DON'T win the title now, it proves they are a fluke. Even if they do, they still won't be viewed with the same legitimacy as past champoins like the Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers.

This is somewhat hijacking this thread, but maybe this thread needs it.

You can find some sort of comfort in believing our title last year was a fluke, I suppose.

Frankly, I don't care.

There is no such thing as a fluke title. You either win it or you don't. Injuries are a part of the game. How "legit" they are doesn't matter to me, only the 2004 banner that hangs from the rafters.

You think I care that a team of role players isn't going to go down with Jordan's Bulls? What do I care?

I don't care if its 1, 2, 3, or 8 in a row, a championship by itself is preiceless, and absultely NOTHING can take away from that.

Nor would I expect a Pistons fan to care. Obviously they'll take another championship by any means necessary to get it.

Let's get one other thing straight. I know you are buddy-buddy with a few of the main people here but I don't respect you at all. You have proven to me over the past year + that you are no more objective, and possibly less so, than any of the homer fans here and you probably know less about basketball than most of them as well. You will obviously stick around and have your say here, but I know I'm not buying most of the BS that you post.

.......and thats your opinion, and guess what: you're entitled to it.

You know what, anyone else that has a problem with me, lets get it all out, right now. ESPECIALLY those of you who think i have no knowledge of basketball:laugh:

Get it out now people, I'm a man and I can take it. If you hate me, go ahead and admit it.

Kstat
11-22-2004, 01:49 PM
So (1) of your reserves would have made the difference?

Last night? Probably not, our whole team played like crap.

That said, our entire bench revolves around two players: Antonio McDyess and Carlos Delfino.

I was just responding to your comment that you beat a %100 healthy Pistons team, thats all.

Harddrive7
11-22-2004, 01:59 PM
Ok, the Pistons were a lot closer to full strength then we were last year or this year. You guys are suppose to be the Champs regardless of how crappy you guys played. Are you telling me that you guys can't get up for the Pacers?

Old as Dirt
11-22-2004, 02:03 PM
How in the world could a Pistons fan justify what happened. One person throwed the beer, may 50 jumped in. and then maybe 50 throwed everything on the Pacers as they were leaving, And to think these 50 bums, is defended by around 20000 good Pistons fan. And your GEO is a pure liar out of both sides of his mount about the securtiy, Look at the tape, and see what security? I do feel sorry for the good people of the Pistons fan. And the great stern, just opened the door for all arenas to do the same.

Old as Dirt
11-22-2004, 02:10 PM
Does anyone know where I can get a printed copy of King Davids speech?

Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 02:11 PM
He probably felt Artest was really trying to hurt him(I don't think he was, but when you are already frustrated stuff is amplified).

So basically your saying it's fine if a piston is frustrated from playing a game and to do something uncalled for but not for a Pacer.

Congratulations Liquid Slap, you are now officially the biggest hypocrite on this board.

At what point did I say it was ok or fine??
I never said. What I said was he would have deserved what he had coming to him for his actions, a 1-2 game suspension.

t-Bone
11-22-2004, 02:14 PM
While fans in Indiana are much more laid back and less confrontational then the thugs on display in detroit, there will always be a few expections. I would recommend that Pistions fans stay far away from conseco this season and possibly the next. They will NOT be treated kindly, especially after their childish behavior in conseco during last years conference finals. I would hate to see a decent piston fan (if they exist) get pounded by a drunk next time they visit.

Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 02:17 PM
There are drunks in every arena. Not just the "thugs" in Auburn Hills.

Newb
11-22-2004, 02:21 PM
I'll start with this: I'm a Pistons fan.

I really feel bad for you Pacer fans, really. Your team has been decimated.

I can also understand being bitter, because of two things, the first of which all of you will agree with and the second you won't.

#1 The fan threw the cup of soda on Artest, without which none of these suspensions would have happened. The rest of the fans throwing stuff on the Pacers as they were leaving were dead wrong too.

#2 Artest, O'Neal and Jackson showed incredibly bad judgement in charging into the stands and throwing punches. In my opinion Jackson and O'Neal should have gotten a stiffer penalty and Artest a lesser penalty.

The on the court stuff that occured before Artest went into the stands happens ALL THE TIME, nobody got punched. If that was all that happened probably all that happens is Ben Wallace gets a 1-2 game suspension and none of your guys get anything (except maybe Jackson who was acting the fool challenging anybody in a Pistons jersey to a fist fight).

I really feel bad for you guys, you looked to have a very promising season and because of these two things you are probably *** out.

Unclebuck
11-22-2004, 02:22 PM
Kstat, I'll make an exception for you, because I know you a little bit an have a lot of respect for you.

But most Pistons fans have to feel like they won the war, go celebrate, leave us alone. Let us deal with our grief our own way. You got over on us. You beat us. The fans beat us, your team didn't, not Friday night, you won fair and square last year.

My only point is just leave us alone for a few days,

Eindar
11-22-2004, 02:24 PM
There are drunks in every arena. Not just the "thugs" in Auburn Hills.

Ya, but most drunks aren't going to throw beer on players, nor are they going to storm the court to try to fight the players, nor are they going to throw chairs into a crowd of players, fans, and police. THAT behavior is currently reserved for the "thugs" in Auburn Hills.

ChicagoJ
11-22-2004, 02:25 PM
We take care of our own.

I know factually of numerous drunks that have had thier tickets revoked from MSA/ CFH.

And Christmas Day, I'll be having a regular dialog with security. If *I* think any Pistons fans are interfering with my ability to enjoy the game, in the way, as a sober fan, I define 'enjoy the game', I will make sure they are ejected.

Eindar
11-22-2004, 02:30 PM
I begin to worry, however. It strikes me as a possibility that some Pacers fans, after seeing what happened in Detroit, might decide that it would be ok to chuck a battery at Ben Wallace in hopes that he'll chase them down and get pitched for the season. As long as we're near .500 at Christmas, this has 0 chance of happening. But if we're a cellar-dweller for that TV game.....it makes me nervous.

Suaveness
11-22-2004, 02:36 PM
K, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU. You are stupid, egotistical, and plain dumb.

:flirt:

But seriously, I really don't appreciate you coming here LS. Yes it is a message board, but there are times of which to come, and stating your unfavored opinion here is not wanted. So just leave please.

TheSauceMaster
11-22-2004, 02:49 PM
I mean I like the rivalry and I wish it could have continued with full rosters. But let's be real here(I know you don't want to hear it from a Pistons fan).

Ron Artest ran up damn near 6 rows of seats to attack a fan!! Stephen Jackson ran up like 10 and he didn't even have anything to do with any of the incidents!! If anything he should have gotten what Artest did. Jermaine O'Neal punched a guy as hard as he could while the guy was trying to get off the floor after he was punched by Artest for no reason. You guys cannot be mad at Stern for handing down his punishment. All of those actions were uncalled for.

If Artest would have kept his cool. The guy that threw the cup would have been escorted(possibly arrested)out of the building and everything would have been cool.

You say this is Ben's fault and deserves more time? You can't be serious. Ben has caught up emotion mad because he is losing and gets fouled hard. He probably felt Artest was really trying to hurt him(I don't think he was, but when you are already frustrated stuff is amplified). He pushed Artest and it was broken up. That's a one game suspension, 2 games max. All that other stuff was do to Artest's short temper.

Given Artest's past, he got what he deserved. You can't really argue for him. Sjax got what he deserved and probably needed more because he perpetuated what was going on by going out in the crowd himself to fight. JO's punishment may have been too harsh because he never went into the stands, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he punched a fan square in the face as hard as he could for no reason.

And if Ben didn't Overreact to a Foul then maybe it all never Woulda happened :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If Detriot would have had proper security on the floor maybe this would have never happened :rolleyes:

Shall I go on ?

RWB
11-22-2004, 03:08 PM
I begin to worry, however. It strikes me as a possibility that some Pacers fans, after seeing what happened in Detroit, might decide that it would be ok to chuck a battery at Ben Wallace in hopes that he'll chase them down and get pitched for the season. As long as we're near .500 at Christmas, this has 0 chance of happening. But if we're a cellar-dweller for that TV game.....it makes me nervous.

I hate to say it Eindar but don't be surprised if they limit how many keys or coins you can bring in, and you might be enjoying those drinks with no to very little ice in your cup.

Liquid Slap
11-22-2004, 03:13 PM
K, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU. You are stupid, egotistical, and plain dumb.

:flirt:

But seriously, I really don't appreciate you coming here LS. Yes it is a message board, but there are times of which to come, and stating your unfavored opinion here is not wanted. So just leave please.


So when do you want me to state my unfavored opinion ?

fwpacerfan
11-22-2004, 03:26 PM
Get your facts right at least, JO didn't hit the guy that Ron punched, Jermaine hit the guy that rushed Ron AFTER Ron punched the first guy on the court.

Actually it was the same guy. I played it back over and over again on my TiVo.

I watched it over and over again as well and the guy O'Neal hit was the guy that hit Anthony Johnson (who has a broken hand btw). The guy hit Johnson and then O'Neal gets him. The guy got what he deserved. I'm not sure if he is the same guy who squared up on Artest ON THE FLOOR.

So basically L.Slap you are saying it is ok to physically assault players? It's ok to go on the playing floor and confront players?

JOneal7
11-22-2004, 03:41 PM
any fan that steps into conseco with piston gear prepare to get it from all the fans...I know atleast 10 that will probably pick on that person or try to start crap (me not being one of them)...
the pistons totally make me wanna puke now...and any fan of theres needs to get off this board...because right now the last thing we wanna see is that stupid banner being raised because this is what was our year. And now there making it so many on here I can't even read posts...bs

fwpacerfan
11-22-2004, 04:02 PM
1st of all, SLAP, just go, man. You're just pissing people off more with your comments.

How would you feel if half our roster got suspended 100+ games?

I'd like to think that I'd see it logically, but thats a HELL of a lot of crap to put up with.

Also, as has been stated before, you're not coming here correctly, and you're saying things that AREN'T true.

You're not going to win this argument.

And UB, I'll be at Conseco in January, whether you like it or not. Sorry, but that's the truth. Anyone that has a problem with it can come see me at the game. I'll even give you my seat number.

And if there were any winners friday night, please point me in their direction, because I sure don't feel like I won a damn thing.



Hey Kstat where will you be sitting? I want to introduce myself to you. You'll recognize me because I'll be the one throwing a full cup of beer at you from 2 feet away. I expect you to not do anything about it, you just need to sit there and take it.

Of course I'm kidding but it gives a different thought process to this.

ROCislandWarrior
11-22-2004, 04:08 PM
Liquid, Lets say that scene happened at Conseco (which it NEVER would) and Ron Artest shoved Ben Wallace, then threw a towel at him. The mob attacks your team and the results are:

Ben Wallace: Suspended For Season
Rip Hamilton: 30 Games
Chauncey Billups: 25 Games

Ron Artest: 6 games



Please, tell us how you would feel...wait...you can't because you have NO ****ING IDEA HOW THIS FEELS...so leave us alone.

Oh...just so you see I am not a sore loser, congrats Liquid and your fellow fans for eliminating the Pacers in 2004-2005...good luck with Miami, maybe you should do the same to them.

Kstat
11-22-2004, 04:11 PM
any fan that steps into conseco with piston gear prepare to get it from all the fans...I know atleast 10 that will probably pick on that person or try to start crap (me not being one of them)...
the pistons totally make me wanna puke now...and any fan of theres needs to get off this board...because right now the last thing we wanna see is that stupid banner being raised because this is what was our year. And now there making it so many on here I can't even read posts...bs


As I said before, any of your friends that want me won't have to look far. I'll be wearing my Pistons jacket. Can't miss it.

If anyone wants to chuck crap at me, be my guest. I won't instigate, I won't retaliate. Beer can be washed away, popcorn can be wiped off, but if you expect me to make an *** of myself on national TV by going after some idiots, you've got another thing coming.

I'm going to show the NBA that passionate Piston fans can root for their team with class, and those morons were an exception.

As for my being here.....tough. Deal wth it. Not to say I'm unsympathetic to Pacer fans, but I simply refuse to be grouped in with the small percentage of piston fans that embarrassed themselves last night in the stands.

And no Piston fan is even PRETENDING to be happy about this incident. Nobody wants to sail through a depleted conference. The Pistons, to an extent, NEEDED Indiana to drive them. The Sheed trade is a perfect example. If Indy doesn't smoke the Pistons 3 times, would they have traded for Sheed? Would they be champs right now? Think about that.

Without the Pacers, I don't know if the Pistons can recapture that competitive edge they had last year. They are BIG losers in this deal, from my POV.

Dukins
11-22-2004, 04:11 PM
I think is best you leave buddy:finger:

Mourning
11-22-2004, 08:29 PM
Yup, LS I would recommend NOT POSTING for something like a week, because you are not helping your case and people WILL remember this and WILL see it is a provocation and probably justifiably too.

I have no problem with you coming back somewhere december on this board at all, but you just said THE WRONG THINGS and I don't feel like explaining myself anyfurther, it's more than obvious.

Kstat, I respect your opinion and thx for several good posts in here.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

grace
11-22-2004, 08:43 PM
[So when do you want me to state my unfavored opinion ?

If you waited until hell freezes over I'd really appreciate it.

As for Kstat being offended by how we view Pistons' fans, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can only go by why I've seen. The Pistons' fans I've seen in person are the worst behaving fans I've ever seen (and I've seen Oakland Raider fans!).

Lastly, if my post offends you, go home.

Unclebuck
11-22-2004, 08:57 PM
Just a note about basketball for you Pistons fans.

You have a great team I predicted 62 wins for your boys, you have a great coach, you have a great starting 5, but your bench is comparable to most 45 win teams.

Pacers bench is much better than your.

Millerartest
11-22-2004, 09:19 PM
Kstat, I know you from reading this boards and can tell that you are a dedicated Pistons and NBA fan, and the right kind of a fan at that. With that said, despite the excellent Pacer fans that you know, there is no getting around that the environment is going to be beyond hostile at the Christmas game. I would not take a chance by wearing the Pistons jacket, because despite people's naive beliefs that none of this could have ever happened in Pacer Land at Conseco, there is a chance that some drunk fans will physically provoke any Pistons players and fans that they can find. I have heard stories about fans from other teams getting jumped, and despite the heightened security that is certain to be there, depending on how things go up to that point, the wrong kind of sports fans may show up for revenge. All I'm saying is think twice about the jacket.

pollardfreek
11-22-2004, 09:23 PM
[So when do you want me to state my unfavored opinion ?

If you waited until hell freezes over I'd really appreciate it.

As for Kstat being offended by how we view Pistons' fans, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can only go by why I've seen. The Pistons' fans I've seen in person are the worst behaving fans I've ever seen (and I've seen Oakland Raider fans!).

Lastly, if my post offends you, go home.



Hate to burst your bubble, but Raider fans are MUCH worse than Piston fans. Much worse. :devil:

ABADays
11-22-2004, 09:36 PM
1. Well, if there are any drunk fans they will be coming to the game drunk because no alcohol is being served that day. And, from what I've heard, if anyone is suspected to be drunk when they enter the arena they will have a visit from security.

2. Some civility please. I don't know LS as well as Kstat but from what I do know about Kstat I have no doubt he feels pretty bad about the entire situation AND about our situation. There's been plenty of responses I've read from him and a lot of time in the game chat to know he's a true basketball fan and - dare I say it - maybe the Pacers are his second favorite team. So I don't see him as an outsider.

Now - for those of us who are regulars - I pretty much know how you feel. This is not an exaggeration. I felt like a family member or best friend died. I've just been numb with a knot in the pit of my stomach. Windows of opportunity don't come often - I hope ours isn't slammed shut.