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View Full Version : Why Miles Plumlee deserves a chance



PacerPenguins
06-29-2012, 12:12 AM
I know we were ALL stunned at first but I think this guy really deserves a chance. I truly believe he is Jeff Foster 2.0. He only played 20 min a game on a very talented Duke team while only claiming 8.6% (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Miles-Plumlee-5261/) of Dukes offensive possessions. So lets say Duke gets 2 possessions every minute. 20 x 2=40, 40 x 0.086. So he was involved on the offensive end on 3.44 possessions in his 20 min of playing time. He averaged 6 pts 7 rbs while barely getting the ball. He is a BIG body and has good athleticism for his size. He is an excellent rebounder especially on the offensive end. He could have really helped out against the Heat last postseason. When Hibbert went out of the game we go "Plumleed" ;) on the glass. He will likely be our back up center and looks like a pretty good one to me. We play in the Orlando Summer League July 9th-13th and he will be there. We can see what this guys is capable of. He deserves a chance.

MiaDragon
06-29-2012, 12:13 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Fn9vBJdJoUY/TxXY47oecwI/AAAAAAAADNE/0kqk3MzK3Ws/s400/lipstickpig.jpg

pacer4ever
06-29-2012, 12:14 AM
Very talented?? Duke's Fc was soft and really not very good just saying.

Psyren
06-29-2012, 12:15 AM
I dont hate the move.

Look at it this way. I imagine Orlando Johnson is our new OJ Mayo/Crawford kind of guy (Johnson actually reminds me of Harden). We still have Collison to use in a trade as well as Hansbrough if we can find a good deal. We should still have cap room to find a FA or two. A

And at least Plumlee has an NBA body.

And try this. Just tell yourself that we drafted Johnson 26th and Plumlee 36th. Then it doesnt seem AS bad.

PacerPenguins
06-29-2012, 12:21 AM
Very talented?? Duke's Fc was soft and really not very good just saying.

I said their TEAM not the FRONTCOURT. Seth curry? Austin Rivers? Mason Plumlee? ranked 2nd in the NCAA tournament? yea they are terrible.

Kstat
06-29-2012, 12:22 AM
He deserves a chance because like him or not, he's your draft pick and not rooting for him now is pointless.

GrangerRanger
06-29-2012, 12:23 AM
This team needs to add depth down low. We added a guy who knows how to win, has a decent motor, is athletic, and comes from a winning background. He's an NBA ready back up whose 7 foot and can jump out of the gym.

At pick 26, how can you hate this move? This automatically makes our front court depth stronger.

Pacersalltheway10
06-29-2012, 12:30 AM
How is his work ethic?

Heisenberg
06-29-2012, 12:30 AM
He's a workout warrior, but is he actually athletic on the floor? How's he move laterally? How's he run the floor? The team clearly needed athleticism and on paper both guys add that, but I'm not going to be sold on Plumlee until he gives me reason to be. Sure I'll give him a chance and root for him, but I'm not just going to automatically like him now.

travmil
06-29-2012, 12:31 AM
At pick 26, how can you hate this move?

It's pretty easily actually. You just have to remember that there were at least 10 better players on the board when he was picked and understand that they could have picked one of them and then bought a pick to get Plumlee in the mid 2nd round if they really wanted him that bad.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 12:31 AM
He needs more time. He only had 5 years at Duke. Another 5 years and he might be able to block more than one shot per game with that glittery 41-inch vertical jump. Well, those were college players. Maybe 0.5? Throw in 2-3 rebounds, 4-5 fouls, and call it a night, if he actually got off the bench. A poor man's Dexter Pittman.

Shabazz
06-29-2012, 12:31 AM
He only played 20 min a game on a very talented Duke team


So talented that they faceplanted in the first round to Lehigh.

rm1369
06-29-2012, 12:33 AM
He deserves a chance because like him or not, he's your draft pick and not rooting for him now is pointless.

This. I hate the pick with a passion, but I hope he makes me eat every curse word I've said since his name was announced. Unfortunately Tyler never did.

GrangerRanger
06-29-2012, 12:35 AM
Most scouts seem to think Plumlee will be a much better NBA player than a college basketball player, which at the very least makes him comparable to Jeff Foster. We drafted based on need, which is what typically takes place by winning teams in the later portions of the draft. We got a glue guy. It's a safe, decent pick. Some people have compared him to Marcin Gortat in terms of ceiling. He was one of the fastest raising prospects in this draft, and I don't think anyone here has as much basketball insight as Donnie Walsh, Larry Bird, and Pritch.

Give the dude a chance. The mid second round crap is nonesense. Some mock drafts were predicting him at pick 34.

Shabazz
06-29-2012, 12:38 AM
-He has an awesome vertical... yet he couldn't even block 1 shot a game?

-He is about to be 24 years old

-He averaged a whopping 6 points and 7 rebounds per game as a senior (career highs)

-HE ONLY SCORED IN DOUBLE FIGURES 8 TIMES LAST YEAR, AND DUKE PLAYED MORE THAN 8 SCRUB TEAMS OUT OF CONFERENCE

-He got benched, repeatedly

-He can't shoot

-When he got to the FT line, he made 63%

-He has bad footwork

-His post moves are terribly underdeveloped

-He has bad hands, and has trouble catching entry passes to the post

-Did I mention this insanely raw offensive player is almost 24?

-Everyone else on the planet expected him to be a 2nd round pick



The Pacers got a guy who can jump high, has muscles, and knows how to flop in hopes of drawing a charge. I will bet anyone on this board $1000 that Miles Plumlee never sees a 2nd contract in Indiana.

PacerPenguins
06-29-2012, 12:41 AM
So talented that they faceplanted in the first round to Lehigh.

Great argument... So I guess Kobe Bryant and the 2008 runner up Lakers sucked bc they lost to a Pacers team with Danny Granger, Rasho, Marquis Daniels, TJ Ford, and Troy Murphy.

TOP
06-29-2012, 12:50 AM
Great argument... So I guess Kobe Bryant and the 2008 runner up Lakers sucked bc they lost to a Pacers team with Danny Granger, Rasho, Marquis Daniels, TJ Ford, and Troy Murphy.

To be fair, the gap between the best NBA team and worst NBA team isn't the same as the gap between Duke and Lehigh. The Pacers still had pro players and also, it was a regular season game. Duke on the other hand consistently has top 5 and top 10 recruiting class every year while Lehigh gets players that probably couldn't even get an offer from UL Monroe. And it was a tournament game.

Your comparison of a bad NBA team(they're still pros) winning a regular season game against a good team over the course of 82 games(1 game means nothing in the bigger picture) isn't the same as Duke losing an elimination game to Lehigh. The talent gap is so much wider and the stakes were so much bigger.

Maybe his argument wasn't the best but your counter argument wasn't either. No offense, just sayin.

Shabazz
06-29-2012, 12:53 AM
Great argument... So I guess Kobe Bryant and the 2008 runner up Lakers sucked bc they lost to a Pacers team with Danny Granger, Rasho, Marquis Daniels, TJ Ford, and Troy Murphy.

You are the one arguing that Miles Plumlee only got 20 minutes a game because Duke was so talented this past season. When in reality they had major holes in their roster, and all their talent was on the shooting guard depth chart. He only got 20 minutes per game because he wasn't that good. It had nothing to do with duke having too much talent. Maybe you shouldn't be making statements about players and teams YOU CLEARLY DID NOT WATCH.

Also, comparing random NBA games to college NCAA tournament games is asinine. There is no comparison there. Especially when the four teams you are comparing are the Lakers, Pacers, Duke, and a school no one had ever heard of.

Pacersalltheway10
06-29-2012, 12:55 AM
I hope he sees these people doubting him and plays his heart out.

tadscout
06-29-2012, 12:56 AM
-Everyone else on the planet expected him to be a 2nd round pick


That's why SI had him going to us in a mock draft. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/20/nba-mock-draft-2012/index.html)

That's why teams at the end of the first round was interested in him (http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbasketball/June-2012/Miles-Plumlee-now-projected-as-a-possible-first-ro) - Boston, Chicago, Minnesota, Memphis, Golden State, Cleveland and Atlanta (I also saw a mock with Miami taking him.)


Hicks Pacers Digest @HicksPDI was just told on good authority Rick Carlisle was talking up Plumlee to Bird, insisting he wouldn't be there in 2nd rnd. FWIW.

Mourning
06-29-2012, 12:57 AM
He deserves a chance because like him or not, he's your draft pick and not rooting for him now is pointless.

True, doesn't mean I have to love his game and to me he's got a LOT to prove he was worth his pick.

tadscout
06-29-2012, 12:58 AM
Roy Hibbert @Hoya2aPacer
I don't know why people are so mad about Miles. I saw his workout he killed. He's gonna b good for the pacers.
.

Lance George
06-29-2012, 12:58 AM
For anyone interested, there's a four-page thread about Miles on RealGM.

RealGM • Why is there no love for Miles Plumlee? (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1177121)

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 01:07 AM
Centers who were far far more productive as players in college than Miles Plumlee include...

Solomon Jones
Uwe Blab
Granville Waiters
Greg Dreiling
Stuart Gray
Dexter Pittman
David Harrison
Todd Lindemann
Ezram Lorbek

tadscout
06-29-2012, 01:09 AM
Darren Wolfson @DarrenWolfson
RT @APkrawczynski: The player the Wolves wanted toward the end of the first round was Duke F Miles Plumlee.
.

Shabazz
06-29-2012, 01:12 AM
Every year some front office fools place waaaaaay too much emphasis on measurables from the combine and meaningless workouts, ignoring the actual game film they have on the players.

Seriously, how does a guy that tall who has such an insane vertical fail to block shots at the college level? Ask yourself that question. Ask it again and again. How many games a year does an elite program like Duke play against teams that are completely outmatched in size and talent? 10? 15? Yet the center with the freakish athleticism couldn't pile up huge block numbers in those games?


Sometimes being strong and athletic is not enough to be a good basketball player.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 01:12 AM
For anyone interested, there's a four-page thread about Miles on RealGM.

RealGM • Why is there no love for Miles Plumlee? (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1177121)

in the thread:

"All I'm saying is, if he manages to get onto Utah or Indiana he might have a shot."

Heisenberg
06-29-2012, 01:14 AM
in the thread:

"All I'm saying is, if he manages to get onto Utah or Indiana he might have a shot."
accusations of racism are hilarious

vnzla81
06-29-2012, 01:18 AM
Call me crazy but I think Pendegraph is better than him, why do we need this guy again? hell even Fez is better, horrible pick.

pacer4ever
06-29-2012, 01:20 AM
.

Taking someone Kahn wanted isnt something to brag about clearly the worst GM at drafting in the NBA.

tadscout
06-29-2012, 01:25 AM
Taking someone Kahn wanted isnt something to brag about clearly the worst GM at drafting in the NBA.

Point is multiple teams were interested in him at the end of the first round. (Like I said in my other post.)

bunt
06-29-2012, 01:26 AM
It's pretty easily actually. You just have to remember that there were at least 10 better players on the board when he was picked and understand that they could have picked one of them and then bought a pick to get Plumlee in the mid 2nd round if they really wanted him that bad.

10 better players according to who? You? Because when I look at this, http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?73260-Chad-Ford-s-draft-tiers , I only count 4 guys that were available in tiers higher than Plumlee. And that's coming from NBA execs and scouts, not travmil. Hey, I'm not a 'fan' of the pick, but I recognize what he can bring to the Pacers, which is value.

Lance George
06-29-2012, 01:27 AM
.

Well, there goes the notion that he could've been had in the second round, let alone all the way down at #56.

Ace E.Anderson
06-29-2012, 01:28 AM
Miles Plumlee lol....I still can't believe it...

If someone told you we left the draft with Orlando Johnson and Miles Plumlee, but didn't tell you the circumstance or who went where nor who was available, would we all be just as angry? His strengths and weaknesses aren't any different than Fab Melo to be honest. As PI**ED as I am that we didn't take anybody else lol (not even gonna name names) lets see if the dude can be a serviceable backup. With size and Athleticism like that, there's always a chance...

bunt
06-29-2012, 01:31 AM
He needs more time. He only had 5 years at Duke. Another 5 years and he might be able to block more than one shot per game with that glittery 41-inch vertical jump. Well, those were college players. Maybe 0.5? Throw in 2-3 rebounds, 4-5 fouls, and call it a night, if he actually got off the bench. A poor man's Dexter Pittman.


Everyone's favorite backup big man Jeff Foster averaged a whopping .1 more blocks than Plumlee in college. But by all means, continue the bashing.

CableKC
06-29-2012, 01:32 AM
He's a workout warrior, but is he actually athletic on the floor? How's he move laterally? How's he run the floor? The team clearly needed athleticism and on paper both guys add that, but I'm not going to be sold on Plumlee until he gives me reason to be. Sure I'll give him a chance and root for him, but I'm not just going to automatically like him now.
Here is his profile from DraftExpress:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Miles-Plumlee-5261/


It took four years for Miles Plumlee to develop into the type of player that Duke fans expected him to be, and even then, he played around 20 minutes per game and scored in double figures just eight times all season. Now, as his career has come to a close, it is time to reevaluate Plumlee on the basis of what he showed throughout his time at Duke to determine whether he can find a niche at the NBA level.

Purely from a physical standpoint, Plumlee looks the part of a NBA big man, measured just a hair under seven feet in shoes with a 7'0 wingspan and an outstanding frame. He bulked up to 247-pounds with allegedly only 5% body fat between his junior and senior seasons. While he's a bit mechanical in his movements, he's a very good athlete for his size--mobile, explosive around the basket, and runs the floor well.

Though he had the reputation of playing facing the basket in high school, Plumlee struggled to develop his offensive game and never turned into a legitimate scoring option at Duke. He averaged a pedestrian 6.6 points per game, a similarly mediocre 12.5 per 40 minutes pace adjusted, while claiming just 8.6% of Duke's offensive possessions. He did, however, shoot a career high 61% from the field, being very efficient in the limited role he played offensively.

Plumlee is still very raw around the basket, at his best catching and finishing. Though his footwork is underdeveloped, he looked comfortable executing a few basic-spin and up-and-under moves with his back to the basket and with his right hand. It's not looking very likely that Plumlee will ever develop into a reliable back-to-the-basket threat, however, especially considering his rawness as a senior and his general lack of development up to this point.

Where Plumlee does thrive and where he can clearly contribute in the NBA is with his tenacity around the basket, particularly grabbing offensive rebounds and finishing. He was the third best offensive rebounder per 40 minutes pace adjusted in our database and on film, he looks to have a nose for the ball while playing a relentless and aggressive style of basketball. While he's primarily a positional rebounder, he has solid hands and the strength and athleticism to bring the ball straight up and to finish in traffic.

Outside of his offensive rebounding prowess, the another interesting wrinkle to Plumlee's game are the brief flashes (just six attempts all season) that he has shown as a spot-up shooter from mid-range, particularly given his comfort operating out of the pick-and-roll. He already sets very good screens and rolls hard to the basket, which is an asset given the predominance of pick-and-roll sets in NBA playbooks. His shooting mechanics need significant work, as his shooting touch isn't great and he spots a slow release with a bit of a hitch, but if he is able to develop in this area, he would have a much better chance of carving out a role in an NBA rotation.

Though his offensive game is still a work in a process, Plumlee improved as a defender during his senior year. His lateral quickness is above average for a player his size, and his increased strength and explosiveness could allow him to play solid post defense in a pinch coming off bench in the NBA. He did a much better job of staying out of foul trouble as a senior, averaging a career low 4.3 fouls per 40 minutes pace adjusted in increased minutes and while posting a career best 1.8 blocks per 40 minutes pace adjusted. It should also be mentioned that Plumlee is a good defensive rebounder, ranking 12th amongst college players in our top-100 rankings.

So, is Plumlee an NBA-caliber center? That's something he'll have to convince teams of between now and June 28th. His outstanding physical profile, efficient style of play, rebounding prowess, and flashes of potential that he shows operating out of the pick-and-roll all represent areas where he could contribute on an NBA roster. The fact that he should be able to hold his own in the post on defense certainly doesn't hurt his stock, either.


On the other hand, Plumlee turns 24 this September, has just an average feel for the game, and developed very slowly throughout his college career, leading many to question his mental toughness. His career has been marked by inconsistency and it took him a long time to get comfortable as a player, let alone a leader.

What is clear is that, despite his unimpressive career numbers, Plumlee is an NBA prospect and could get some looks from teams drafting in the second round. If not, he's easily the type of player who could find himself on a team's roster this fall, as there just aren't that many big men around with his physical attributes and rebounding ability.
After reading his profile on DraftExpress.....I am a little more reassured about what he can do. I don't like that he was picked at 26.....but understand why Bird picked him.....he loves having athletic, energy guys that rebound and are physical inside the paint in his Frontcourt. Basically, he's the love-child of Amundson and Jeff Foster.....an athletic and mobile Big Man that loves to rebound, hustle and provide energy but can't really block shots while being far more effective on one end of the court than the other.

Another thing to consider.......I'm not going to assume that it was a given that the FO was going to be able to get a 2nd round pick or not when they were about to pick at 26.

if this was the guy that Bird really wanted.....despite being projected to be a 2nd round pick.....assuming that the Pacers didn't know one way or another whether a 2nd round pick could be made available to them or not....I can see Bird looking at this as a "We only have 1 draft pick for now.....he's the guy I want....but I have no clue if I can get a 2nd round pick or not, so I will just pick him at the 26th spot" move.

Lance George
06-29-2012, 01:33 AM
Taking someone Kahn wanted isnt something to brag about clearly the worst GM at drafting in the NBA.

http://i.imgur.com/eQ6Hx.jpg

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 01:44 AM
Everyone's favorite backup big man Jeff Foster averaged a whopping .1 more blocks than Plumlee in college.

with Jeff putting up more than twice as many points, WAY more rebounds, more offensive rebounds, more steals, more assists... pretty much superior in every category other than FG%, since Miles had the good sense to not bother shooting what he could not dunk, because otherwise he would be benched

Heisenberg
06-29-2012, 01:47 AM
with Jeff putting up more than twice as many points, WAY more rebounds, more offensive rebounds, more steals, more assists... pretty much superior in every category other than FG%, since Miles had the good sense to not bother shooting what he could not dunk, because otherwise he would be benched
and playing in the Southland Conference. Jus'sayin.

Lance George
06-29-2012, 01:47 AM
For anyone who doubts that Miles Plumlee was a legitimate first-round prospect:

Miles Plumlee - Google News (http://www.google.com/search?q=Miles+Plumlee&num=100&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=nws&prmd=imvnsuo&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:m&sa=X&ei=HTvtT-enB-Tg0QH7oo2RDg&ved=0CCYQpwUoBA&biw=1280&bih=887)

Take a look for yourselves. You have 1,300 articles from the past month alone to choose from.

Here, I'll give you a head start:

Miles Plumlee's rising draft stock not a surprise to Krzyzewski | ACC Insider (http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/30416/miles-plumlees-rising-draft-stock-not-a-surprise-to-krzyzewski/?tc=ar)


The fact that a Plumlee is being projected as a late first round pick in next week’s NBA draft isn’t exactly a stretch. Scouts have long been enamored with the skills of middle brother Mason.

But Mason isn’t in this draft. He took his name out of consideration back in April and will return for his senior season with the Blue Devils. Instead, the Plumlee whose stock is rising faster than the early summer temperatures in North Carolina is older brother Miles.

The senior center, who has measured out at 6-foot-11½ in his shoes, was an unexpected star at a predraft group workout in Minnesota last month.

He also excelled at another camp in Chicago and has done individual workouts with Chicago, Miami, Charlotte, Atlanta and several other teams with picks from No. 23-31 – fueling speculation that he may have played his way into the first round despite an inconsistent college career.

It’s a development that has surprised just about everyone … with the possible exception of Plumlee and his former college coach.

“Basically, he’ll be a complementary player, like most of the guys in the NBA,” Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski said last week. “At 6-11, 255-260, he’s an incredible athlete. I think he’s still growing as a player and he’ll only be asked to do things he does well.

“He can run. He can play defense. He can rebound. He doesn’t have to be a great shooter. He’s an adequate shooter, but he can physically play right away. And he can do the things you would ask a complementary player to do.”

Plumlee averaged only 6.6 points per game last season, but that stat is deceiving Krzyzewski said.

“Kids in college get all caught up in how much they’re scoring or whatever. Very few guys are picked to score,” the Hall of Fame coach said of Plumlee, who averaged 7.1 rebounds and shot 61 percent from the floor as a senior. “Most of them will be picked on how they play and how they complement the key players. Miles has done really well in Chicago in his workouts and individual workouts.”

The two-round draft is scheduled to take place next Thursday. Plumlee’s two younger brothers, Mason and Marshall, will both be players at Duke next season.

7', 250 pounds, incredible athlete, 61% from the field, and one of the best per-minute rebounders in college basketball.

Is he gonna be an All-Star? Probably not.

Does he have all the tools to give us the same sort of things Jeff Foster has for the past 12 years, exactly the sort of thing this team was missing behind Big Roy? Absofreakin'lutely.

He may not have the upside that Perry Jones, III has, but he fills a much more crucial role than the poor-man's-Tim-Thomas-with-gimpy-knees role.

CableKC
06-29-2012, 01:47 AM
One more thing....I'm waiting for Seth to basically chime in and suggest that if Bird wanted this type of Player that he just have DW pull some strings and try to acquire Jerome Jordan from the Knicks.

tadscout
06-29-2012, 01:50 AM
For anyone who doubts that Miles Plumlee was a legitimate first-round prospect:

Miles Plumlee - Google News (http://www.google.com/search?q=Miles+Plumlee&num=100&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=nws&prmd=imvnsuo&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:m&sa=X&ei=HTvtT-enB-Tg0QH7oo2RDg&ved=0CCYQpwUoBA&biw=1280&bih=887)

Take a look for yourselves. You have 1,300 articles from the past month alone to choose from.

Here, I'll give you a head start:

Miles Plumlee's rising draft stock not a surprise to Krzyzewski | ACC Insider (http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/30416/miles-plumlees-rising-draft-stock-not-a-surprise-to-krzyzewski/?tc=ar)



7', 250 pounds, incredible athlete, 61% from the field, and one of the best per-minute rebounders in college basketball.

Is he gonna be an All-Star? Probably not.

Does he have all the tools to give us the same sort of things Jeff Foster has for the past 12 years, exactly the sort of thing this team was missing behind Big Roy? Absofreakin'lutely.

He may not have the upside that Perry Jones, III has, but he fills a much more crucial role than the poor-man's-Tim-Thomas-with-gimpy-knees role.

:amen:

CableKC
06-29-2012, 01:51 AM
7', 250 pounds, incredible athlete, 61% from the field, and one of the best per-minute rebounders in college basketball.

Is he gonna be an All-Star? Probably not.

Does he have all the tools to give us the same sort of things Jeff Foster has for the past 12 years, exactly the sort of thing this team was missing behind Big Roy? Absofreakin'lutely.

He may not have the upside that Perry Jones, III has, but he fills a much more crucial role than the poor-man's-Tim-Thomas-with-gimpy-knees role.
I'm slowly coming to this conclusion as well. As KStat suggested....we have little choice but to live what we have and hope that he turns out to be a more athletic version of Jeff Foster.

bunt
06-29-2012, 01:51 AM
and playing in the Southland Conference. Jus'sayin.

Not to mention, most stats for a Plumlee or Foster type player do not matter. The Pacers aren't going to ask him to become Roy Hibbert. He's there to do the dirty work, the little things. Sure, he does need to rebound, but spg, bpg, ppg, are largely irrelevant considering the amount of minutes he'll play and what's expected from him.

MagicRat
06-29-2012, 01:53 AM
. Roy Hibbert @Hoya2aPacer
I don't know why people are so mad about Miles. I saw his workout he killed. He's gonna b good for the pacers.

I would much rather that have ended in "us"......

Lance George
06-29-2012, 01:55 AM
with Jeff putting up more than twice as many points, WAY more rebounds, more offensive rebounds, more steals, more assists... pretty much superior in every category other than FG%, since Miles had the good sense to not bother shooting what he could not dunk, because otherwise he would be benched

Look at the numbers Orlando Johnson put up at U.C. Santa Barbara, numbers better than pretty much every SG drafted ahead of him. Now, ask yourself why those numbers aren't taken at face-value, and why such a productive player would slip to the second round.

Small school. Inferior teammates. Small conference. Inferior quality of opposition. Inflated stats.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 01:57 AM
and playing in the Southland Conference. Jus'sayin.

Miles Stifflee did shine in Duke's cupcake games vs. Belmont, UNC-Greensboro, Western Michigan, and Lehigh, with 4, 0, 7, and 4 points.

Heisenberg
06-29-2012, 02:02 AM
Miles Stifflee did shine in Duke's cupcake games vs. Belmont, UNC-Greensboro, Western Michigan, and Lehigh, with 4, 0, 7, and 4 points.

Belmont was a solid squad. ;)

tadscout
06-29-2012, 02:03 AM
Miles Stifflee did shine in Duke's cupcake games vs. Belmont, UNC-Greensboro, Western Michigan, and Lehigh, with 4, 0, 7, and 4 points.

... and Plumlee scored 16 against Zeller and UNC... Does Zeller suck b/c he allow Plumlee to score??

You are grasping at straws. Coach K even said his role wasn't to score.

bunt
06-29-2012, 02:04 AM
Miles Stifflee did shine in Duke's cupcake games vs. Belmont, UNC-Greensboro, Western Michigan, and Lehigh, with 4, 0, 7, and 4 points.

Well shoot, I wonder what the Pacers, bulls, heat, bobcats, hawks, and several other teams must have been watching all this time? Because if he can only score that much against those teams, he'll never play a minute in the NBA. At least according to the resident scout, Slick Pinkham...

ColeTheMole
06-29-2012, 02:12 AM
I didn't like the pick, but I will give him a chance. I think it is a bit premature to want to chop his head off without him playing a minute of NBA basketball.

Heisenberg
06-29-2012, 02:14 AM
I didn't like the pick, but I will give him a chance. I think it is a bit premature to want to chop his head off without him playing a minute of NBA basketball.

but what if we chop it off and it becomes his little brother?

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 02:15 AM
Well shoot, I wonder what the Pacers, bulls, heat, bobcats, hawks, and several other teams must have been watching all this time? Because if he can only score that much against those teams, he'll never play a minute in the NBA. At least according to the resident scout, Slick Pinkham...

The previous poster cited quality of competition as being a stat-inflator for Jeff Foster in college and a stat-suppressor for Miles Stifflee. I merely cited evidence to the contrary, performances against lesser competition. Miles did get 22 rebounds vs. Maryland, so maybe we got us the next Kevin Love.

imbtyler
06-29-2012, 02:23 AM
This team needs to add depth down low. We added a guy who knows how to win, has a decent motor, is athletic, and comes from a winning background. He's an NBA ready back up whose 7 foot and can jump out of the gym.

At pick 26, how can you hate this move? This automatically makes our front court depth stronger.

See, I don't really buy that bolded crap. Do we not forget that Hansbrough was supposed to know how to win? He didn't seem to have any bright, glowing moments of winningness that really stand out in my mind. For a guy who kicked a bunch of *** in 4 years of college, and to be hyped as a guy who "knows how to win" and "has championship experience", he didn't really bring enough to the table when it came to our lack of a championship run.

I'm not trying to burn on you directly, but I hate when people use those kinds of clichés as "heavy points" to describe players. If that was the case, there would have been more people rooting for the trade-up for Austin Rivers, because THAT kid knows how to win games (with his own buzzer-beating 3-point shots), and definitely has an "NBA winner's mentality" (oh, thanks, Dad). I don't know if that was just a fault on Hansbrough's part, by drinking so many 40's (IN A BAG, IN A BAR) that he drowned "Psycho T", or if he just didn't translate to the NBA, like I said he wouldn't.

Regardless, I'm not as down on the Plumlee pick as I was, because he's a legit 7-footer, he's incredibly athletic, and he can do some things. And some stuff. He'll be a good addition. But don't think for a second that, just because he "knows how to win", he'll be an instant 10+ games won strictly on what he does. However (and I'll be saying this for a while), there is NO way he's worse than Hansbrough, so any positive is a positive.

However, Orlando Johnson has the potential to be THAT guy. He might NOT know how to win (20-11 for UCSB isn't bad), so I'm sure he's got a craving to learn what it feels like to win more than 20 games (or go better than .550) in one season.

Only moderately disappointing draft night. I can't wait to see how these guys perform. And I'm really wondering what's going to happen with Lance Stephenson. Can he, Hill, OJ, and Paul play in the same rotation? Can Lance play his position, except... at... PG?

IndyPacer
06-29-2012, 02:50 AM
I've been saying plenty of harsh things about Plumlee, but I'm willing to give him a shot. He put on these workout wonder displays to impress everybody and work his way up in the draft to this spot, so at the very least I expect a very strong work ethic from him to try to live up to what he convinced Bird and others he could become. He has a lot to prove in my view.

I could see him contributing as a backup at PF and C as a homeless man's Zeller at the very least. I hope the Pacers work hard to speed up his skill development. Hibbert needs to toughen him up with his MMA training.

This is one of the only Bird picks that I really disliked, but he usually has pretty good instincts outside of a few guys who turned out to have character issues. I don't expect that type of problem out of Plumlee, so I'll give him a chance. I really think he should be busting his behind during the offseasons if he's going to ever learn how to use those incredible physical gifts. He should be Hibbert's shadow, trying to learn everything he can. Thank goodness Plumlee actually has a skilled center on this team to learn from. If he can't learn something from guarding an All-Star center every day in practice, he's hopeless.

Acquiring that 2nd rounder for Orlando Johnson softened the blow of getting Plumlee over Jones, Taylor, or Moultrie. I wouldn't have complained much if Johnson was our pick at 26, so the overall outcome of our draft wasn't bad. I actually like Johnson quite a bit. He's a terrific shooter, is extremely athletic, and has great defensive potential. I'm very happy with this pick.

Before I try to sleep off my frustrations, I'll end on a positive note. I will present you with the stat of the night.

Average vertical leap of our 2012 draft picks: 39.75 inches. How often does that happen?

Heisenberg
06-29-2012, 02:54 AM
Average vertical leap of our 2012 draft picks: 39.75 inches. How often does that happen?
I mean, if NOTHING else, we did get a lot more athletic tonight

PR07
06-29-2012, 03:16 AM
I never watched a Duke game and though he was a freak athlete or even remotely close to being one of the best players on the court. Maybe he'll be a better pro though. He deserves a chance, and he'll get it. I just hope he proves everyone wrong for the team's sake.

woowoo
06-29-2012, 04:43 AM
I've been saying plenty of harsh things about Plumlee, but I'm willing to give him a shot. He put on these workout wonder displays to impress everybody and work his way up in the draft to this spot, so at the very least I expect a very strong work ethic from him to try to live up to what he convinced Bird and others he could become. He has a lot to prove in my view.

I could see him contributing as a backup at PF and C as a homeless man's Zeller at the very least. I hope the Pacers work hard to speed up his skill development. Hibbert needs to toughen him up with his MMA training.

This is one of the only Bird picks that I really disliked, but he usually has pretty good instincts outside of a few guys who turned out to have character issues. I don't expect that type of problem out of Plumlee, so I'll give him a chance. I really think he should be busting his behind during the offseasons if he's going to ever learn how to use those incredible physical gifts. He should be Hibbert's shadow, trying to learn everything he can. Thank goodness Plumlee actually has a skilled center on this team to learn from. If he can't learn something from guarding an All-Star center every day in practice, he's hopeless.

Acquiring that 2nd rounder for Orlando Johnson softened the blow of getting Plumlee over Jones, Taylor, or Moultrie. I wouldn't have complained much if Johnson was our pick at 26, so the overall outcome of our draft wasn't bad. I actually like Johnson quite a bit. He's a terrific shooter, is extremely athletic, and has great defensive potential. I'm very happy with this pick.

Before I try to sleep off my frustrations, I'll end on a positive note. I will present you with the stat of the night.

Average vertical leap of our 2012 draft picks: 39.75 inches. How often does that happen?

Good Lord people he played at DUKE with a bunch of "shooting G's" and NO PG's.......


He did what coach K wanted him to do. He was NOT asked to score. At 26 did any of you really expect to get the next David Robinson?

chill folks...

wintermute
06-29-2012, 04:44 AM
For me, Plumlee deserves a chance simply because Bird has a solid drafting history and has earned the benefit of the doubt. I still think we reached, but if Bird felt he was our guy, and didn't want to risk another team drafting him, well he's the best judge of the situation.

Reading his DX profile, I'm mildly encouraged by his rebounding rate and by his screening ability, enough that I see where the Jeff Foster comparisons are coming from. So I think we can count on at least these 2 skills translating. But it's worth remembering that it took Jeff Foster a few years to become, well, Jeff Foster, so I think we'll have to expect Plumlee to be terrible his first couple of seasons.

Regarding his combine measurements, well Joe Alexander looked awesome in workouts too. I don't think we should give much weight to that.

And on players we passed on, I'm not upset about passing on Perry Jones, who I think has a lot of bust potential in his own right. Not going to angst about passing on a guy like Jeff Taylor either, since we apparently liked Orlando Johnson as the wing option better or at least as much anyway. I think we may regret passing on Quincy Miller though, who I think could be a stud scorer down the road. Obviously our FO feels differently.

Sparhawk
06-29-2012, 06:47 AM
Why can't we move on from players. Foster was nice, Dale Davis was a beast, etc. How about actually reach for something new/better instead of something that is similar, cause ultimately, that player will NEVER live up to the original.

You can't tell me Plumlee is better than Moultrie and a hobbled PJIII? I don't see it. Yeah, it's the 26th pick, so you don't expect a starter, but Moultrie and PJIII have the upside to be starters in this league, so you should just take the best player available. That should be a gimmie.

I'm pissed, but I'll get over it. I was pissed when the Pacers passed on Jrue Holiday and took Hans. I was mildly upset when the Pacers traded a first, second and filler for Hill (who may still walk), when I thought the Pacers should have traded down to take MarShon Brooks. Probably could have had another first this year had the Pacers traded down.

I like Bird and what he's done to a degree. So his 3 year plan was more like 4. He didn't make decisions that crippled the franchise. However, in the draft, he puts blinders on for one person.

Orlando Johnson was a solid pick, but I still question if it was the right one. While solid, the Pacers have Lance Stephenson and DJ at sg, yet no backup for Granger and Quincy Miller was still on the board. Maybe Miller won't amount to much, but he's got more upside than Johnson, he's 6'10 at the SF spot and only 19. He's going to get better; the dude put up 11pts 5boards, 2dimes, and just under 1steal/block per game...coming off ACL surgery. He's going to get better.

Pacers drafting Moultrie/PJIII along with Quincy Miller would have been an A draft.

xBulletproof
06-29-2012, 07:12 AM
I slept on it, and I am still mad as hell.

Hope I am wrong.

BringJackBack
06-29-2012, 07:21 AM
I'm more optimistic about Magnum Rolle than Miles Plumlee.

wintermute
06-29-2012, 07:24 AM
Orlando Johnson was a solid pick, but I still question if it was the right one. While solid, the Pacers have Lance Stephenson and DJ at sg, yet no backup for Granger and Quincy Miller was still on the board. Maybe Miller won't amount to much, but he's got more upside than Johnson, he's 6'10 at the SF spot and only 19. He's going to get better; the dude put up 11pts 5boards, 2dimes, and just under 1steal/block per game...coming off ACL surgery. He's going to get better.



Ye gods and little fishes, I just realized we passed on Quincy Miller TWICE. I think I'm about to have a Seth-style meltdown.

...

Ok, maybe not. I like OJ too, but I think Q Miller is going to be a stud scorer down the road. In fact, he'd be my upside pick at 26, not PJ3.

I guess we're serious about getting players who are ready to contribute. But on the other hand, how do you explain Plumlee?? I consider him a project player too. It's a puzzle :confused:

idioteque
06-29-2012, 07:32 AM
Whatever, we'll see what if anything he can do. Picks in the late 20's are generally inconsequential, hell the last time we had a pick in this range we picked Primoz Brezec and that really had no impact on our franchise one way or the other. If Vogel can light a fire under him and make him embrace contract he may develop into a decent rotational player.

And I'm predicting that 3 years from now no one on this board will know who Perry Jones III or Quincy Miller are.

Really?
06-29-2012, 08:20 AM
For me, Plumlee deserves a chance simply because Bird has a solid drafting history and has earned the benefit of the doubt. I still think we reached, but if Bird felt he was our guy, and didn't want to risk another team drafting him, well he's the best judge of the situation.

Reading his DX profile, I'm mildly encouraged by his rebounding rate and by his screening ability, enough that I see where the Jeff Foster comparisons are coming from. So I think we can count on at least these 2 skills translating. But it's worth remembering that it took Jeff Foster a few years to become, well, Jeff Foster, so I think we'll have to expect Plumlee to be terrible his first couple of seasons.

Regarding his combine measurements, well Joe Alexander looked awesome in workouts too. I don't think we should give much weight to that.

And on players we passed on, I'm not upset about passing on Perry Jones, who I think has a lot of bust potential in his own right. Not going to angst about passing on a guy like Jeff Taylor either, since we apparently liked Orlando Johnson as the wing option better or at least as much anyway. I think we may regret passing on Quincy Miller though, who I think could be a stud scorer down the road. Obviously our FO feels differently.

More like a up and down drafting history...

Sparhawk
06-29-2012, 08:40 AM
Ye gods and little fishes, I just realized we passed on Quincy Miller TWICE. I think I'm about to have a Seth-style meltdown.

...

Ok, maybe not. I like OJ too, but I think Q Miller is going to be a stud scorer down the road. In fact, he'd be my upside pick at 26, not PJ3.

I guess we're serious about getting players who are ready to contribute. But on the other hand, how do you explain Plumlee?? I consider him a project player too. It's a puzzle :confused:

Ok, would you rather have a 20/21 year old with crazy athleticism as a project or a 24 year with almost no upside as a project. Decisions are just so hard. Quick, ask Bird. "Who's like Foster"

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, wrong answer Bird. The correct answer was PJIII or Moultrie.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2012, 08:43 AM
Very athletic basketball players have good balance, good hand-eye coordination, fluid movement, quick feet, agility, speed, quickness, endurance, strength, and leaping ability.

Scoring even extremely well on a no-step vertical jump drill, period, does not make anyone a great athlete for a basketball player anymore than quickly solving a Sudoku puzzle makes someone an analytical genius.

IndyPacer
06-29-2012, 08:48 AM
More like a up and down drafting history...

Most of the "downs" were specifically related to character issues. As anyone could see from my posts last night, I was not fond of this pick, but I don't expect Plumlee to have any character issues that tended to be prevalent in Bird picks that didn't work out.

IndyPacer
06-29-2012, 09:04 AM
Orlando Johnson was a solid pick, but I still question if it was the right one. While solid, the Pacers have Lance Stephenson and DJ at sg, yet no backup for Granger and Quincy Miller was still on the board. Maybe Miller won't amount to much, but he's got more upside than Johnson, he's 6'10 at the SF spot and only 19. He's going to get better; the dude put up 11pts 5boards, 2dimes, and just under 1steal/block per game...coming off ACL surgery. He's going to get better.


Orlando Johnson has a different skill set than Stephenson and D. Jones. Johnson happens to be an excellent shooter, which is something this team needs. Johnson's coach also bragged about his incredible work ethic, which seems to be a crucial factor regarding how our draft picks in recent years have or have not worked out. I think Johnson could be an excellent fit here.

Also, why do you present D. Jones as though he is strictly limited to the SG position? He can guard either wing position as a backup.

Justin Tyme
06-29-2012, 09:05 AM
You can't tell me Plumlee is better than Moultrie and a hobbled PJIII?

Orlando Johnson was a solid pick, but I still question if it was the right one. While solid, the Pacers have Lance Stephenson and DJ at sg, yet no backup for Granger and Quincy Miller was still on the board. Maybe Miller won't amount to much, but he's got more upside than Johnson, he's 6'10 at the SF spot and only 19. He's going to get better; the dude put up 11pts 5boards, 2dimes, and just under 1steal/block per game...coming off ACL surgery. He's going to get better.

Pacers drafting Moultrie/PJIII along with Quincy Miller would have been an A draft.


OR Jeff Taylor.

I like the Orlano Johnson pick. It smooths out the overall draft for me. I can see why they drafted him as a scorer off the bench. Dahntay is gone after this year, and maybe traded this off season. Stephenson is Bird's pet project and no guarantee he's going to make it.

Quincy Miller was a player I was interested in at #26. I just hope not drafting him at #26 doesn't come back to bite the Pacers. "IF" the Pacers had drafted Quincy at #26 with Orlando in the 2nd, I would have been extremely elated with the draft.

Cleveland did trade end up trading their #33 & 34 picks that I wanted the Pacers to get. Grrr. Pacers could have gotten both Quincy and Orlando as 2nd rdrs for less money than Plumlee and with unguaranteed contracts.

FWIW, DX on Sunday's mock had Plumlee being drafted at #34.

Really?
06-29-2012, 09:14 AM
OR Jeff Taylor.

I like the Orlano Johnson pick. It smooths out the overall draft for me. I can see why they drafted him as a scorer off the bench. Dahntay is gone after this year, and maybe traded this off season. Stephenson is Bird's pet project and no guarantee he's going to make it.

Quincy Miller was a player I was interested in at #26. I just hope not drafting him at #26 doesn't come back to bite the Pacers. "IF" the Pacers had drafted Quincy at #26 with Orlando in the 2nd, I would have been extremely elated with the draft.

Cleveland did trade end up trading their #33 & 34 picks that I wanted the Pacers to get. Grrr. Pacers could have gotten both Quincy and Orlando as 2nd rdrs for less money than Plumlee and with unguaranteed contracts.

FWIW, DX on Sunday's mock had Plumlee being drafted at #34.

Interesting Imagine if we would have drafted PJIII and Miller, would have been interesting. I actually have more concerns about PJIII than Miller in our offense, but I think PJIII struck it rich getting put in the OKC system, he should really grow there.

Sparhawk
06-29-2012, 09:36 AM
Interesting Imagine if we would have drafted PJIII and Miller, would have been interesting. I actually have more concerns about PJIII than Miller in our offense, but I think PJIII struck it rich getting put in the OKC system, he should really grow there.

I just think with our coaching staff and the hard working guys that we already have, PJIII would have made sense. He's got skills, but lacking in the motivation. I'm more than positive our guys/staff would get the most out of PJIII. Oh well, hope he proves every team that passed on him wrong.

I really want this draft stickied, so we can come back in a few years and see if the majority of us were wrong or right.

Ownagedood
06-29-2012, 09:52 AM
Average vertical leap of our 2012 draft picks: 39.75 inches. How often does that happen?

Btw, I am a little late to the party, but I will point out that vertical is a few inches higher than our very own leaper in PG... So there is definitely some big time athletic potential from the guys we drafted... I really hope they prove me wrong, I was not happy at the pick at all, but im trying to change my own mind.

Gamble1
06-29-2012, 10:23 AM
Btw, I am a little late to the party, but I will point out that vertical is a few inches higher than our very own leaper in PG... So there is definitely some big time athletic potential from the guys we drafted... I really hope they prove me wrong, I was not happy at the pick at all, but im trying to change my own mind.
I think everyone is unhappy about the pick because better value was there at every level.

The comparison to Jeff Foster is hilarious to me. Jeff was a veteran sub par starter who had very little offensive game what so ever. Miles will be lucky to be a Jeff Foster and even if he is you don't pass up players with more potential than Jeff Foster who drop to your lap in the late first.

Personally I am glad Bird is gone from doing the drafts and this will be like the Brandon Rush Roy Hibbert picks where I am more excited about the second pick than I am the first.

3rdStrike
06-29-2012, 10:36 AM
Can't believe some are still pouting like babies because the guys they overrated didn't get picked with a late 1st round pick. And I really love how everyone brings out the stat sheet with Plumlee, but not a few of you would have liked Fab Melo. Whatever. The Pacers went with the guy who impressed them, and our bench got such a significant shot in the arm with both picks that we're pretty much done in that department.

OlBlu
06-29-2012, 10:46 AM
I think everyone is unhappy about the pick because better value was there at every level.

The comparison to Jeff Foster is hilarious to me. Jeff was a veteran sub par starter who had very little offensive game what so ever. Miles will be lucky to be a Jeff Foster and even if he is you don't pass up players with more potential than Jeff Foster who drop to your lap in the late first.

Personally I am glad Bird is gone from doing the drafts and this will be like the Brandon Rush Roy Hibbert picks where I am more excited about the second pick than I am the first.

Not everone is upset with our draft pick. One does not expect much from the 26th pick. It takes a while for big men to develop. Look how much Hibbert has improved since he was drafted. Plumlee has the physical tools to be a first rate back up and even bring some nasty attitude to the second team. If he can spell Hibbert and keep his minutes down and play a little at PF, he will be a good pick. So many here obsessed about a PG but when did you ever hear Bird and company say that they were not happy with the PG situation the way it is now? We picked up two pieces with potential with our late first rounder and buying a second rounder. Good draft considering the conditions. It will take one of our starters to pull in a starter. I'm not sure the Pacers want to do that. Simon is happy just having a team make the playoffs and won't spend the money to produce a real contender. That is why Bird is leaving in my opinion:cool:.......

Hicks
06-29-2012, 11:02 AM
Well, there goes the notion that he could've been had in the second round, let alone all the way down at #56.

Even if that's what would have happened, get better value for your pick and let this guy go.

MnvrChvy
06-29-2012, 11:07 AM
So my big question that I don't have a real answer to having not watched many Duke games is whether or not he's good passer. I'm trying to take comfort in the comparisons to Foster, but to me it seemed like Foster became a much bigger impact on the team when he learned to pass well. In fact, having him and Mike Dunleavy on the floor together actually worked out quite well for us a lot of the time because of their uncanny connection.

Basically, I'd feel better about him not being an offensive threat if I knew he could see the floor as a 7 footer should. Can anybody shed some light here?

Really?
06-29-2012, 11:11 AM
I just think with our coaching staff and the hard working guys that we already have, PJIII would have made sense. He's got skills, but lacking in the motivation. I'm more than positive our guys/staff would get the most out of PJIII. Oh well, hope he proves every team that passed on him wrong.

I really want this draft stickied, so we can come back in a few years and see if the majority of us were wrong or right.

I think with PJIII his college coaching was not good from the standpoint he did not really have a set role, and also he probably prefers playing a wing role instead, so he was kind of in between both and never really looked comfortable doing either. But as many stated he should mesh very well with OKC, he will really help them next year if he is healthy.

Sherlock
06-29-2012, 12:22 PM
He is our poor man's Dale Davis.

Pacer Fan
06-29-2012, 12:39 PM
I'm all for this pick, excited when I heard it last night, Plumlee is what we didn't have all season coming off the bench. He will provide 7 feet of muscle with a 40" vertical. He is already better then Lou (Lou on his best game). I am glad we didn't take a project or bad knees at pick 26. Pacers filled a need last night more then taking the best available hopeful. Props to Larry for having the stones to do the unpopular pick.