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_The_Future_
06-28-2012, 09:52 AM
via ESPN.com

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8106785/nba-draft-2012-knee-baylor-bears-perry-jones-iii-raises-red-flags-sources-say

By Chad Ford | ESPN.com


It looks like Jared Sullinger isn't the only big time NBA draft prospect to have medical issues hurt his stock.

Multiple league sources say that NBA team doctors are concerned about a meniscus issue in Baylor forward Perry Jones III's knee.

While opinions vary among NBA doctors on the ramifications of the issue, some teams feel that the knee could be an issue down the road and at some point in the future require surgery. Not all teams have the same degree of alarm, but the concerns have caused Jones' stock to slide from the mid-to-late lottery portion of the draft down into the late teens and early 20s of the round.

Jones' agent, Bill Duffy, declined comment.

PacersHomer
06-28-2012, 10:05 AM
Hopefully these medical red flag guys will fall all the way down to 26.

Really?
06-28-2012, 10:10 AM
pretty sure that he won't fall to 26 but if he did I do not care about all the question marks that would be a good grab for the Pacers.

BringJackBack
06-28-2012, 10:30 AM
Now with the medical red flags, I hope we can snag him... I hate trying to 'scout' him because of Baylor's system... You can't see what he can and can't do unlike say Kentucky where everyone has the ability to do their own thing off the dribble or in the fast break.

ballism
06-28-2012, 10:36 AM
There was an article some time ago (on hardwoodparoxysm maybe?), PJ3 trainer claimed that he puts unnecessary pressure on his knees when jumping.

That was supposed to be a positive spin, as in --- "We are teaching him to balance his explosiveness, it will makes things easier for him and his performance won't be so up and down during games".

But in combination with these reports, it's worrisome.

*edit* here it is:
http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/06/25/nba-draft-2012-perry-jones-iii-at-his-peak/


Perry Jones III only jumped as high as he could twice last season at Baylor.

Peak Performance Project (P3) founder and director Dr. Marcus Elliott learned this after giving Jones a vertical jump test. Jones’ first couple of jumps did not drop jaws, then the 6-11 forward seemingly effortlessly elevated 41.5 inches into the air and Elliott asked him what those extra five inches were doing in his backpocket. Jones responded with that surprising statement.

“That was one of those lightbulb moments,” Elliott said. “I’ve never heard an athlete ever say that to me.”

This raises obvious questions: Why hold back? If Jones can touch 12’4.5, why didn’t he use that freakish athleticism on every single possession in college? Why didn’t he dominate consistently when, sometimes, it looked like it was so easy for him to do so? Are the columnists and critics right when they say he has a weak motor?

Not according to Elliott.

“I think they’ve got that wrong,” said the Harvard graduate who worked with elite athletes at the U.S. Olympic Training Center before opening his own facility in Santa Barbara, California. “I don’t even know what that is: ‘A weak motor.’ I’ve heard that around him now over these last few weeks quite a few different times and I don’t know quite what that means. Is that like lack of effort? Does it mean not a lot of drive? Does it mean he can’t work at a high level for a long period of time? I don’t know. I don’t think any of these things are going to be true with this kid.

“He’s got a bigger work capacity than most of the athletes that we’ve had in, including NBA guys. He can go at high intensities for a long period of time.”

Elliott has worked with Jones for the last month and a half, preparing him for the Chicago pre-draft combine, team workouts and the leap to the next level. What he found was a mechanical issue, not one involving a lack of heart, desire or focus.

“When you create force for any kind of athletic movement out of your lower half — whether it’s jumping or sprinting or cutting — you use a combination of force generated from the ankle, the knee and the hip. We call those ‘force moments,’” Elliott said. Jones’ problem is that he was creating a bigger force moment over his knee than was desirable. His work at P3 has been about shifting his incredibly powerful force moments to his hips. While “motor” is a murky term, sports science showed something specific: His movement pattern put too much pressure on his knees to produce maximal force on a consistent basis. Perry’s smooth athleticism made everything look easy, but it was not.

Fortunately, unlike a lack of passion, this can be fixed. “It’s something we can absolutely affect,” Elliott said. “We’ve done it in dozens and dozens of athletes.” Jones has made significant physical gains in a relatively short amount of time. “It’s helped me a lot to be honest,” Jones said of P3 following his workout in Toronto. “I think if I wasn’t there I’d probably be tired through all of these workouts.”

In Santa Barbara, a typical day for Jones starts with a light 60-75 minute on court session in the morning, followed up by a high-intensity, rigorous training session at the P3 facility. In the afternoon, he’s back on the court for a demanding two-hour session. “We put the screws on him in overall work volume quite a bit,” said Elliott.

Jones is a rare athlete, with one of the most unique sets of physical metrics Elliott has ever tested. “He’s without question one of the ten most athletic athletes I’ve ever tested, maybe top five,” Elliott said. “In any sport.” As well as his ridiculous vertical leap and his deceptive strength, Jones’ agility at his size makes him special. His 5-10-5 shuttle was faster than any big man ever tested at P3 and faster than all but three wings. While some question his natural position at the NBA level — Raptors executive vice-president Ed Stefanski said “that’s something we’ll discuss thoroughly” — Elliott believes that Jones can play small forward without question.

“If he was 6-6, people wouldn’t say he was slow. I guarantee if he was 6-6 and had the same movement that he has right now at 6-11 he’d be a natural three and they’d say that makes sense,” Elliott said. “Because he’s 6-11 people think that, I don’t know, that it’s some kind of stretch. But I can tell you it’s just because you’re not used to seeing guys that are 6-11 that can move like this this kid can move. They just don’t exist.”

“For a long guy, he is able to transition from eccentric to concentric movements, from down movements to up movements and all kinds of athletic movements faster than about any tall athlete we’ve seen,” Elliott continued. “Most big athletes have a little bit of a lag between, say, dropping into a depth jump and then coming out of it or loading onto a single leg and then driving out of it. He has no transition, he moves more like someone who’s 6 feet to 6-4 as opposed to 6-11.”

While Jones’ athletic ability made him stand out, his work ethic and engaging personality endeared him to the staff at P3. At the Raptors practice court at the Air Canada Centre, it wasn’t hard to see why. Waiting his turn for a video interview, he stood behind the camera and stared at fellow prospect Jared Sullinger as the Ohio State big man tried to answer questions. When I sat down with Jones minutes later and he described himself as “goofy”, Sullinger was a couple of seats over, returning the favor. With the scrutiny Jones faced at university and his family’s financial struggles, he’s had to grow up quickly in some ways. But in speaking with Jones, he can remind you of someone even younger than his 20 years. This is especially true when discussing The Looney Tunes Show. “It’s up to date. Bugs Bunny got an iPhone,” Jones said. “His roommate is Daffy Duck. Granny lives down the street … It’s real good.”

Jones’ father, Perry Sr., accompanied him to Santa Barbara. So did his childhood friend, Bobo, a barber who quickly became popular there, giving the other athletes haircuts. Every day, Bobo went for walks in the mountains with Perry Sr., sometimes accompanied by a jovial Jones. “He’s not closed off to his friends or the world like a lot of people are in his position,” Elliott said. “He seems really open, he’s a great listener, super sincere, super playful. How he ended up in a position where he was supposed to carry the weight of the university on his shoulders was just his freakish talent that was handed to him. He doesn’t know where it came from.”

In three days, that freakish talent will land him in the NBA. It’ll be a year later than many expected, but Jones has no regrets about staying for his sophomore year. “Those were the best guys I ever played with, to be honest, and they always had my back with anything I did,” he said. It might have hurt his draft stock, but it helped Jones to spend another year with that particular group.

“I take things more seriously,” Jones said. “I’m not as tense. I’m loosened up a little bit. Probably I speak a lot more.” Jones is still laid-back off the court, but he started to come out of his shell during his two years in Waco. “All I wanted to do was play video games and watch cartoons. I don’t play video games as much. I don’t watch — well, I do watch cartoons, but I’m more social now.”

On Thursday, Perry Sr. and Terri Jones will see their son get drafted. “It’s going to mean a lot. All the hard work paid off. I know they’ve been waiting for this moment forever,” Jones said. “I mean, they were modest about it. They didn’t want to rush it. Last year I could have left. I felt like I wasn’t ready … They support me in everything I do and I love them.”

No matter where Jones ends up, there will be more expectations. There will be more doubts, despite his skill level and his off-the-charts athleticism. It’s fair to say that he wasn’t assertive enough in college, but he’s hardly the first 6-11 player to not fully understand how to use his body at the age of 20. Call him a risky pick if you want, but perhaps it’s not such a leap of faith. You could do worse than betting on a guy with preposterous potential and a point to prove.

Ace E.Anderson
06-28-2012, 10:37 AM
As talented as the guy is, and he's VERY talented, I always have a problem with someone who doesn't play hard. From everything I've read about him, that is his biggest knock, inconsistent effort. Even at 26 idk if I want someone like that on the team.

We all get frustrated with Paul George for his lack of aggression, do we want another young guy with the same problem?

Doddage
06-28-2012, 10:38 AM
Oh man would I LOVE if he slipped to 26.

Jeremy
06-28-2012, 10:43 AM
I didn't want him even when I thought he had good knees. After all the money wasted on JO and Dunleavy's knees I would think we are done with paying players with bad knees.

PR07
06-28-2012, 10:48 AM
We all get frustrated with Paul George for his lack of aggression, do we want another young guy with the same problem?

If he has a lot of talent, at #26, yeah I'd take it.


I didn't want him even when I thought he had good knees. After all the money wasted on JO and Dunleavy's knees I would think we are done with paying players with bad knees.

Danny Granger had supposed knee issues on draft day too, but that one has worked out pretty well for us.

Speed
06-28-2012, 10:57 AM
If he has a lot of talent, at #26, yeah I'd take it.



Danny Granger had supposed knee issues on draft day too, but that one has worked out pretty well for us.

Exactly what I thougth of, when I read the OP.

Justin Tyme
06-28-2012, 10:57 AM
I didn't want him even when I thought he had good knees. After all the money wasted on JO and Dunleavy's knees I would think we are done with paying players with bad knees.



Yeah, Granger fell out of being a lottery pick to #17 with red flag on knee. How did that work out?

Blair fell out of the 1st round in 09 with red flag knee problems. How did that work out for the Spurs?

At #26, taking a chance isn't that big of a deal. Same applies to Quincy Miller. I'd take either one over Draymond Green and feel happy they dropped to the Pacers.

PR07
06-28-2012, 11:00 AM
Exactly what I thougth of, when I read the OP.

Granted, Perry Jones doesn't really seem like a Larry Bird guy with lack of toughness and questionable motor, but at #26, might as well roll the dice.

cdash
06-28-2012, 11:05 AM
Yeah, I didn't want the guy when I thought his knees were good.

Steagles
06-28-2012, 11:10 AM
I didn't want him either, even if his knees are good. Great talent but terrible work ethic.

Jeremy
06-28-2012, 11:16 AM
Granted, Perry Jones doesn't really seem like a Larry Bird guy with lack of toughness and questionable motor, but at #26, might as well roll the dice.
Haven't you heard the news? Larry Bird doesn't run the Pacers anymore.

Do any of you understand just how bad a lousy meniscus is?

Sandman21
06-28-2012, 11:18 AM
Haven't you heard the news? Larry Bird doesn't run the Pacers anymore.

He still running the draft and summer league. Larry aint gone yet. :D

At 26 and with a David West on the team, if he's on the board, GRAB HIM!

Major Cold
06-28-2012, 11:18 AM
A meniscus issue? This seems like disinformation by some GM who wants him to fall. Is he needing carving? Is it interior of outer?

ballism
06-28-2012, 11:23 AM
Do any of you understand just how bad a lousy meniscus is?

how bad is it, exactly?


By Chad Ford | ESPN.com


It looks like Jared Sullinger isn't the only big time NBA draft prospect to have medical issues hurt his stock.

Multiple league sources say that NBA team doctors are concerned about a meniscus issue in Baylor forward Perry Jones III's knee.

While opinions vary among NBA doctors on the ramifications of the issue, some teams feel that the knee could be an issue down the road and at some point in the future require surgery. Not all teams have the same degree of alarm, but the concerns have caused Jones' stock to slide from the mid-to-late lottery portion of the draft down into the late teens and early 20s of the round.

Jones' agent, Bill Duffy, declined comment.

imbtyler
06-28-2012, 11:30 AM
Ha! I just hope his knees get better overall. Besides that, if he fell to #26 and we still had our pick, then I'd be happy. Especially if we STILL got the #10 pick and could grab Marshall or Rivers. :D :pray:

mildlysane
06-28-2012, 11:39 AM
Maybe I am wrong, but the article that Ballism posted said his problem was a fixable mechanical problem.....NOT a heart or motor issue. Sorry, but for me, it is a no-brainer at 26 if he is available.

PR07
06-28-2012, 11:41 AM
Haven't you heard the news? Larry Bird doesn't run the Pacers anymore.

Do any of you understand just how bad a lousy meniscus is?

Last time I checked, he was still running tonight's draft meaning he'll pick the guy he ​likes.

Lance George
06-28-2012, 12:18 PM
Here's hoping Anthony Davis suddenly develops Polio and drops to #26.

tmhall11
06-28-2012, 12:54 PM
Jonathon Bender 2.0

Trader Joe
06-28-2012, 02:56 PM
Jones is way too nice on the court....way too nice. He will get bullied around. He will have the same issues Tim Thomas did

PGisthefuture
06-28-2012, 03:14 PM
Ha! I just hope his knees get better overall. Besides that, if he fell to #26 and we still had our pick, then I'd be happy. Especially if we STILL got the #10 pick and could grab Marshall or Rivers. :D :pray:

That would be one helluva draft night assuming it doesn't take any major pieces to do so.

Jeremy
06-28-2012, 05:26 PM
how bad is it, exactly?

My mother had a bad meniscus and couldn't even move her knee.

pacer4ever
07-09-2012, 09:50 PM
:bump:

Seth Davis ‏@SethDavisHoops
NBA scout told me today his team's docs believe Perry Jones's knees will only hold up for 3-4 years in the league. Explains why he dropped.


Damn sucks hope he proves the Docs wrong. This is why it's hard to be mad without having info.


Im sure a few other guys who dropped this year we also red flagged I think there were 6 total(that Chad Ford knew about at least) only 2 came out public. Wouldn't be surprised if Quincy Miller didn't pass from doctors of some teams as well.


Good move for OKC even if he is only effective for 4 years he is a valuable guy for a contending team.

CableKC
07-09-2012, 09:53 PM
Given the likely # of minutes that he will play in an already stacked OKC rotation...hopefully he can extend his career a little bit more then 3 to 4 years.

xIndyFan
07-09-2012, 09:57 PM
given that scouts were comparing him to tim thomas, expecting him to get enough minutes to wear his knee out is problematical.

fwiw, he is the guy i wanted the pacers to take instead of miles.

Steagles
07-09-2012, 09:59 PM
Glad we didn't draft him. Still wish we drafted Ezeli instead, but I digress.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 09:59 PM
this is why I don't think he was even on our draft board

Young
07-09-2012, 10:05 PM
this is why I don't think he was even on our draft board

I agree. I think he is actually a very lucky player to have fallen to the Thunder and be picked by them. That is the ideal situation for him. He can go to a team with good players and he will not be expected to be a star like some seem to think he will be. Durant, Westbrook, and Harden will carry most of the scoring load. It will be a situation with little pressure on Perry Jones.

BlueNGold
07-09-2012, 10:53 PM
I sprained my MCL and tore my miniscus about 8 years ago and I could barely walk. The lower part of my leg was like hanging by a thread and it would swing left and right.

What a drag. I would hate to have a similar issue affect my career, particularly at the start of it.

Richard_Skull
07-10-2012, 02:07 AM
Well... if he only has 4 years, atleast it's with OKC, not a lot to ask of him and should give him 4 (or so) chances at a ring.

Justin Tyme
07-10-2012, 12:01 PM
Doctors are never wrong. Hmmm, Pacers docs supposedly gave Maggette's injury a thumbs down. He's been out of the league how many years now? What he's still playing!!

I often wonder who decided that Maggette's injury made the trade a no go. Was it really about Maggette's injury, or having already been burnt by JB, or someone else just wanted a different player?

If you listened to those at the 09 draft who said Blair physically couldn't take the rigors of the NBA, you'd have been wrong too. He's already made it 3 years, and about 60% of the rest of that 2nd round aren't even in the NBA.

I won't be a bit surprised to see PJ3 have a productive NBA career.