PDA

View Full Version : Ford-Simmons Mock: DC+#26 for Rivers



beezer615
06-27-2012, 01:25 PM
Found this interesting.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8100861/page/2/welcome-fourth-showdown-two-guys-care-nba-more-you



FORD: Breaking news: I'm trading New Orleans' no. 10 pick to the Pacers for Darren Collison and no. 26, then taking Austin Rivers for Indiana.

SIMMONS: Intriguing!

FORD: The thinking: Indiana wants another shooter and a guy who can get to the basket at will. Kevin Pritchard won't care too much about chemistry he'll want talent. I thought about Terrence Ross here, but now I'm thinking Austin Rivers is a Kevin Pritchard type of pick. An alpha dog for a team without an alpha dog. I'm not in love with Rivers, but he might be a good fit here on a veteran team that can keep him in line. As for the Hornets, they need a good point guard to pair with Anthony Davis. I'm just not feeling Jarrett Jack. They could go with Kendall Marshall here he's an elite passer who sees the floor as well as anyone in the draft. But I think he's going to get killed defensively. Killed. They had a lot of luck with Darren Collison when he played there; since the Pacers have replaced Collison with George Hill as their starter, he's expendable.

MillerTime
06-27-2012, 01:27 PM
sounds good to me...NO is in need of a PG and Collisons already has ties to NO

Hicks
06-27-2012, 01:30 PM
I want to know more about these alleged chemistry concerns surrounding Rivers, but otherwise I'd be interested in such a move.

pacer4ever
06-27-2012, 01:31 PM
Totally agree about Kendall Marshall


I think Austin Rivers is gonna be just like a MarShon Brooks a guy who never found a shot he doesnt like. I mean if you could combine his ability off the bonce with Brad Beal's IQ I would love Rivers. I mean guys like Rivers have rare skills but when you think you are Kobe and you dont have his skill you hurt your team at times as much as you help them at others. I think he will be very Jamal Crawford like in the NBA. Unless a coach can teach Rivers to move without the ball and play with a team he will always be in that mold. Plus his off the ball defense is beyond bad it needs fixed as well tons of upside he just needs tons of coaching and word on the street is that he isnt that coach able.

EDIT: Hicks he needs the ball in his hands to be effective not very good off the ball and according to Chad Ford his ego is bigger than Texas and thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread. However his burst with the ball is special amazing first step that will really translate to the NBA well.

BPump33
06-27-2012, 01:34 PM
I like Rivers, a lot. I think our locker room would be able to handle his "diva" problem. I've been wrong many times before.

I'm still intrigued by what Lance is going to do for us this year.

Trader Joe
06-27-2012, 01:43 PM
Rivers had some really high, highs, and really low, lows at Duke this year. He could become the best young 2 in the NBA or a chucker. It's a little disappointing IMO that he didn't show more improvement under Coach K.

PacerPride33
06-27-2012, 01:46 PM
2 thumbs up

Ace E.Anderson
06-27-2012, 01:49 PM
Rivers had some really high, highs, and really low, lows at Duke this year. He could become the best young 2 in the NBA or a chucker. It's a little disappointing IMO that he didn't show more improvement under Coach K.

I think that Duke was the absolute worst fit possible for a player like Rivers. Everybody knows Coach K runs a tight ship and runs a complexed system. This is why there are rarely one and done type of players that attend Duke, because those types of talents prefer a more wide-open setting in which they can showcase their talent.

I believe this was the case for Rivers. Had he attended Kentucky, or a Syracuse where their offensive approach is more wide open, we would have seen Rivers at his best.

With that said, I think he has a little ways to go as far as maturity is concerned. But that's nothing that can't be fixed. Unfortunately today, the more talented a player is, the more of a diva they are.

Bottom line: you can teach maturity, you cant teach talent. And Rivers is supremely talented. Plus his swagger, and confidence is something we currently lack.

IUfan4life
06-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Is he capable of playing any point?

Also, he's Doc Rivers' son. I believe he'll figure out how not to be a headcase.

Trader Joe
06-27-2012, 01:55 PM
Here's my question because I'd vastly prefer Beal...does Danny+26 get you high enough for Beal, and if so would you do it? Rivers is just such a risk to me. I would be very luke warm about it.

Trader Joe
06-27-2012, 01:55 PM
I think that Duke was the absolute worst fit possible for a player like Rivers. Everybody knows Coach K runs a tight ship and runs a complexed system. This is why there are rarely one and done type of players that attend Duke, because those types of talents prefer a more wide-open setting in which they can showcase their talent.
.
Kyrie Irving was pretty damn impressive in Duke's system.

Derek2k3
06-27-2012, 01:56 PM
Is he capable of playing any point?

Also, he's Doc Rivers' son. I believe he'll figure out how not to be a headcase.

To your question, yes. Unless you want your point to pass the ball. Then, no.

Aw Heck
06-27-2012, 01:58 PM
Here's the DraftExpress video breakdown on him:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mrbrarSldxo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm not impressed. He looks like a career backup combo guard.

pacer4ever
06-27-2012, 02:00 PM
Here's my question because I'd vastly prefer Beal...does Danny+26 get you high enough for Beal, and if so would you do it? Rivers is just such a risk to me. I would be very luke warm about it.

I dont Beal isn't very good off the dribble and doesn't have the burst I look for in a 2 guard. I think he will struggle to get to the hoop at the NBA level considering where you are drafting him( I wouldnt draft a 2 that high unless he can score at will and defend and is the whole package). His stroke is sweet but I dont think he has the whole package. I dont think Beal gets past #3 and the Wizards are set up to get him and I doubt they would have any interst in that trade and Danny plus #26 isnt enough to move up too #2.


He again was a terrible fit he should of never went to FL. I really like the kid think he will be a good SG and near elite on defense just dont think we can trade up to get him and it isnt worth it if we can would cost way to much.

I see him as a smarter OJ Mayo with defense and rebounding not Eric Gordon like so many compare him too.

Trader Joe
06-27-2012, 02:01 PM
You'd take Rivers over Beal? I guess I'm just not that crazy about the guards in this draft. I like a lot more of 3/4 guys if I had to pick.

imbtyler
06-27-2012, 02:03 PM
The best part of Celtics-Pacers games would be to see Austin and Doc's hugs before and after the game. That's so touching to me. I have a feeling that Austin can get his mindset in order so that he can be a quality and contributive player for any team he's on. I would love for us to pick him up. He has the ability and court vision, so if he learns to pass properly, he'll be an incredible combo guard.

Ace E.Anderson
06-27-2012, 02:04 PM
Kyrie Irving was pretty damn impressive in Duke's system.

I agree. BUT Kyrie only played 11 games with only 3-4 games against teams with NBA Talent on them. He had a GREAT game against Arizona in the NCAA Tourney as well. But I'm not arguing that Rivers is in Uncle Drew's league; because he isnt. I see Rivers as a very good 2-guard, capable of being an All-star someday. But he IS NOT nearly as good as Kyrie Irving.

Aside from Irving, who was the last freshman who was that type of player (ball dominant, one-on-one scorer) that came out of Duke and was going to be a lottery pick in the Draft? Jay Williams?

Steagles
06-27-2012, 02:04 PM
Rivers would be ok, but I'd still like to pair Marshall with Danny and PG.


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

pacer4ever
06-27-2012, 02:08 PM
You'd take Rivers over Beal? I guess I'm just not that crazy about the guards in this draft. I like a lot more of 3/4 guys if I had to pick.

No I wouldn't draft either top 5 though. Beal is overrated IMO he isnt top 3 talent but I do draft him over Rivers.


EDIT: I think the SG/SF spot is so deep I can see some GMs liking Terrence Ross or Jeremy Lamb over both of those guys and if Will Barton is there at end of the first much much much better value IMO than Beal at #3.


my list would be

Beal
Ross
Barton
Lamb
Waiters
Rivers


and really they are all so close together depending on the fit I can see them going in so many different orders. If you need a shooter go Beal, Ross or Lamb. Need a Scorer go Barton or Rivers. I think it depends on how a team is built really. Rivers IMO is the biggest risk I think he does have bust possibility.

Really?
06-27-2012, 02:08 PM
First of all I would have gone with his first decision getting Terrence Ross, better fit for this team and still tons of talent and potential, good long range shot and can also finish down low.

Second he says Pacers need a top dog but then the vets need to keep him in control, to me it kind of sounds conflicting. I do not think Rivers is that bad of the court he works hard and is dedicated to basketball, to me he is a guy that just wants to win. On this team him being ball dominate would not work, atleast not with the current group of guys especially if we are trying to build around Hibbert.

Last thing about Rivers he has that killer instinct, and desire to be great, I hope he goes to a team that helps him grow into it because if so he WILL be one of the top players in the NBA, oh and as P4E said his offball defense is horrible, he will really need to work on that, but he has the drive and it did get better throughout the year.



I think that Duke was the absolute worst fit possible for a player like Rivers. Everybody knows Coach K runs a tight ship and runs a complexed system. This is why there are rarely one and done type of players that attend Duke, because those types of talents prefer a more wide-open setting in which they can showcase their talent.

I believe this was the case for Rivers. Had he attended Kentucky, or a Syracuse where their offensive approach is more wide open, we would have seen Rivers at his best.

With that said, I think he has a little ways to go as far as maturity is concerned. But that's nothing that can't be fixed. Unfortunately today, the more talented a player is, the more of a diva they are.

Bottom line: you can teach maturity, you cant teach talent. And Rivers is supremely talented. Plus his swagger, and confidence is something we currently lack.

I completely agree with the top phrase, I will say that if he was a point that there would have been no problem, but to be a ball dominate 2 at Duke is not a healthy situation, unless you have a point that is just as good, for instance if Kyrie would have stayed they would have been dominate last year.


Is he capable of playing any point?

Also, he's Doc Rivers' son. I believe he'll figure out how not to be a headcase.

Very little, his mindset when he gets the ball is either one or two things, set up and attack or look around and pass, it is like he can not switch in between the two, but if he can get the mindset to attack while setting up his teammates he could be a good facilitating 2, doubt he will ever be able to play the one though.

PR07
06-27-2012, 02:11 PM
I'd definitely be down for this deal. If Rivers goes back to school another year, he's probably a Top 5 pick. Yes, he has an abundance of confidence, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Find me a great player that doesn't. He has good bloodlines with his dad, and we all know he can hit the big shot when it matters most (Duke vs. UNC game).

Trader Joe
06-27-2012, 02:12 PM
No I wouldn't draft either top 5 though. Beal is overrated IMO he isnt top 3 talent but I do draft him over Rivers.


EDIT: I think the SG/SF spot is so deep I can see some GMs liking Terrence Ross or Jeremy Lamb over both of those guys and if Will Barton is there at end of the first much much much better value IMO than Beal at #3.

I agree with you, I think the value picks in this draft are between 10-30, not the top 10.

Really?
06-27-2012, 02:19 PM
I agree. BUT Kyrie only played 11 games with only 3-4 games against teams with NBA Talent on them. He had a GREAT game against Arizona in the NCAA Tourney as well. But I'm not arguing that Rivers is in Uncle Drew's league; because he isnt. I see Rivers as a very good 2-guard, capable of being an All-star someday. But he IS NOT nearly as good as Kyrie Irving.

Aside from Irving, who was the last freshman who was that type of player (ball dominant, one-on-one scorer) that came out of Duke and was going to be a lottery pick in the Draft? Jay Williams?

There really weren't any, coming in Kyrie was told that coach K would change his system around to fit his skillset, but it is easier to do that with a 1 than a 2.

I actually think Rivers has more potential than Kyrie, Kyrie is much further along and they play different positions but 4 years down the road Rivers could be the better player.

Speed
06-27-2012, 02:20 PM
Put it this way, everytime I watched Duke play I looked on the bench to see if Coach K was still there. I've never seen a Duke team give one player so much of a green light. 1 on 5 early and often. I was NOT a fan, but I can't stand that type of ball. I serious doubt that it translates, at least As Is. With all that said, he had skill and could develop, he's has not conscience now, but there is ability there.

Jrod Jones
06-27-2012, 02:23 PM
I am both intrigued and against this idea.

To start, I am in favor of trading Collison to get a pick in the top 15. I think that a move of that nature would really put us in a good position. Now to Rivers.

I think, if you buy into his abilities, Rivers fits better with the Pacers then most teams. As a team that overall is not very creative and seems to be (at times) lacking that go to scorer, the Pacers could really use an alphadog like Rivers who demands the ball with 2-3minutes left. At the same time I am not sure how he would be able to develop here. Something about this kid gets me excited, and I think with proper mentoring he could be really special. In the same breathe, I think he could also end up overwhelmed by the NBA and not be able to adjust to it.

Rivers is exactly the type of player I envision pairing with PG in a few years when he is (hopefully) hitting his prime. Now, I don't know if Rivers is that guy, but his style is what I envision working well with PG on the wing.

Personally, I think that Hibbert, West, Granger, etc. and especially Vogel would be able to mentor and refine Rivers' game to the point that he gets a better feel for moving without the ball and playing as a team. You can teach maturity, you can't teach talent. This kid is explosive and is probably one of our best chances at elevating this team to the next level.

The issue that Rivers' ultimately leads us to is over how to build this team. If we are trying to build this around Hibbert (as I think we should) it might not be beneficial to bring in a ball dominant SG just yet...

Tom White
06-27-2012, 02:25 PM
This may be unfair because I did not get to see him play much, but Rivers impresses me as a far too I-ME-MINE type player for my liking. Translate that as I think he is selfish.

Ace E.Anderson
06-27-2012, 02:25 PM
First of all I would have gone with his first decision getting Terrence Ross, better fit for this team and still tons of talent and potential, good long range shot and can also finish down low.

Second he says Pacers need a top dog but then the vets need to keep him in control, to me it kind of sounds conflicting. I do not think Rivers is that bad of the court he works hard and is dedicated to basketball, to me he is a guy that just wants to win. On this team him being ball dominate would not work, atleast not with the current group of guys especially if we are trying to build around Hibbert.

Last thing about Rivers he has that killer instinct, and desire to be great, I hope he goes to a team that helps him grow into it because if so he WILL be one of the top players in the NBA, oh and as P4E said his offball defense is horrible, he will really need to work on that, but he has the drive and it did get better throughout the year.




I completely agree with the top phrase, I will say that if he was a point that there would have been no problem, but to be a ball dominate 2 at Duke is not a healthy situation, unless you have a point that is just as good, for instance if Kyrie would have stayed they would have been dominate last year.



Very little, his mindset when he gets the ball is either one or two things, set up and attack or look around and pass, it is like he can not switch in between the two, but if he can get the mindset to attack while setting up his teammates he could be a good facilitating 2, doubt he will ever be able to play the one though.

I think a team like the Pacers or maybe the Nuggets would be the absolute best situation for Rivers. These teams have already shown they can win without him, and they have enough young vets that can show him the ropes but also guys he can relate to on a personal basis. Both teams NEED a ball dominant scorer in the 4th qtr of tight games, its just a necessity in order to win big in this league. He earns his stripes with the team, while keeping that swagger/confidence about himself, and the sky is the limit.

PR07
06-27-2012, 02:27 PM
This may be unfair because I did not get to see him play much, but Rivers impresses me as a far too I-ME-MINE type player for my liking. Translate that as I think he is selfish.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Reggie kind of a brash gunslinger when he entered the league? I certainly know Kobe was.

Trader Joe
06-27-2012, 02:27 PM
This may be unfair because I did not get to see him play much, but Rivers impresses me as a far too I-ME-MINE type player for my liking. Translate that as I think he is selfish.

Oh, he's selfish. There's no doubt about that and his game winning shot against North Carolina didn't help matters. Kid has been told he walks on water for the past 4-5 years. The question is, is he good enough to be that selfish? Because the guy thinks he is Kobe. Rivers will absolutely believe he is one of the best scorers in the NBA the moment he is drafted.

I just don't think that will be true, which is why I would stay away.

Sparhawk
06-27-2012, 02:34 PM
Pacers have more pressing needs than trading up for a sg.

I'd rather take that 10 and trade with Houston for #14 & either the #16 or #18. You'd still get just as good of talent and you'd have 2 picks. And be able to choose a guy that fell in the draft.

I think Pritchard should get all the picks he can. Trade Hans for the Cavs 2 2nd rounders if he can't get their late first and a second. Bench need major upgrades, and I doubt we spend a lot in FA. There will still be good bench talent in the early 2nd round with Lamb, Crowder, Barton (possibly), Jenkins, Orlando Johnson, Darius Miller, Gordon, O'Quinn...Or package the 2nd rounds to move up to a late first and take Quincy Miller.

pacer4ever
06-27-2012, 02:42 PM
If you could combine Beal and Rivers you would have a top 3 pick that would be a scary good player.


My problem with Beal is he doesn't get to the line in part because he has no burst(if he had a Rivers burst and handle he probably would). The reason Will Barton I rate higher than almost anyone else rates him is just that. The kid lives at the line and takes good shots and defends. He is a true pro hard worker cocky but not crazy and a good passer. I just think he fits the mold of what I look for in a SG more than most in the draft. Yes he benched 185lbs 0 times I say so what the get is a flat out great basketball player. Who can shoot and score with anyone in this draft.


Like I said the SG spot is so deep I think Rivers(the last on my list) has more upside than Beal(#1 on my list). It is really just finding the guys game you like and for me that is Will Barton. The dude is really hard to guard without fouling and that is a main reason he gets to the line so much. It is something that almost always translates people who are hard to guard I really like.

Sparhawk
06-27-2012, 02:44 PM
If you could combine Beal and Rivers you would have a top 3 pick that would be a scary good player.


My problem with Beal is he doesn't get to the line in part because he has no burst(if he had a Rivers burst and handle he probably would). The reason Will Barton I rate higher than almost anyone else rates him is just that. The kid lives at the line and takes good shots and defends. He is a true pro hard worker cocky but not crazy and a good passer. I just think he fits the mold of what I look for in a SG more than most in the draft. Yes he benched 185lbs 0 times I say so what the get is a flat out great basketball player. Who can shoot and score with anyone in this draft.


Like I said the SG spot is so deep I think Rivers(the last on my list) has way more upside than Beal. It is really just finding the guys game you like and for me that is Will Barton.

I like Will Barton too.

Heisenberg
06-27-2012, 02:47 PM
I think we're all in agreement that we need an "alpha dog" on offense. The problem is Rivers has that attitude for absolutely no reason on Earth. If that dude came here and tried to run wild West would stare a hole through the back of his brain and terrify him.

Indyfan505
06-27-2012, 02:51 PM
Pacers have more pressing needs than trading up for a sg.

I'd rather take that 10 and trade with Houston for #14 & either the #16 or #18. You'd still get just as good of talent and you'd have 2 picks. And be able to choose a guy that fell in the draft.

I think Pritchard should get all the picks he can. Trade Hans for the Cavs 2 2nd rounders if he can't get their late first and a second. Bench need major upgrades, and I doubt we spend a lot in FA. There will still be good bench talent in the early 2nd round with Lamb, Crowder, Barton (possibly), Jenkins, Orlando Johnson, Darius Miller, Gordon, O'Quinn...Or package the 2nd rounds to move up to a late first and take Quincy Miller.

we could potentially end up with perry jones and either marhall or sullinger this way

Really?
06-27-2012, 02:53 PM
I think a team like the Pacers or maybe the Nuggets would be the absolute best situation for Rivers. These teams have already shown they can win without him, and they have enough young vets that can show him the ropes but also guys he can relate to on a personal basis. Both teams NEED a ball dominant scorer in the 4th qtr of tight games, its just a necessity in order to win big in this league. He earns his stripes with the team, while keeping that swagger/confidence about himself, and the sky is the limit.

But Rivers is a ball dominate scorer all game, I don't really think he is interested in being a bench or role player or to only go into selfish mode in the 4th and take over. Winning without him and winning with him are two different things, think about when Denver had Melo, once they traded him away they played a lot better, it is not so simple as to say we can improve our team with adding a ball dominate scorer.

I like Rivers but I do no feel this would be the best team for him to go to to grow.

Ace E.Anderson
06-27-2012, 03:06 PM
But Rivers is a ball dominate scorer all game, I don't really think he is interested in being a bench or role player or to only go into selfish mode in the 4th and take over. Winning without him and winning with him are two different things, think about when Denver had Melo, once they traded him away they played a lot better, it is not so simple as to say we can improve our team with adding a ball dominate scorer.

I like Rivers but I do no feel this would be the best team for him to go to to grow.

For his sake, I'd hope he'd rather go to a team that's shown it can win, and consider himself a piece that can help the team take that next step; as opposed to going to a team that's in the lottery where he would be the number one option. Every star in the league has come to know, you cant "do it by yourself". We need to realize, the kid is 19, maybe 20 yrs old. He's not going to come in and average 30 in the next yr or so. He has to learn the NBA game, and how/where to get his shot off.

Yes Denver played better without Melo, but then they got ousted in the first round the past few years b/c they lacked a go-to scorer. All real contenders in this league have a go-to scorer. I wouldn't expect Rivers to become that player for my team within his rookie year, but he's the type of talent that i think would be able to become that one day.

Really?
06-27-2012, 03:11 PM
I think we're all in agreement that we need an "alpha dog" on offense. The problem is Rivers has that attitude for absolutely no reason on Earth. If that dude came here and tried to run wild West would stare a hole through the back of his brain and terrify him.

He has a reason, guy is very good at what he does well and has the ability to take over a game, I do not think he is disrespectful to his teammates at all, he just plays the game a certain way, try to tone him down and I do not think he will be that good of a player anymore.


If you could combine Beal and Rivers you would have a top 3 pick that would be a scary good player.


My problem with Beal is he doesn't get to the line in part because he has no burst(if he had a Rivers burst and handle he probably would). The reason Will Barton I rate higher than almost anyone else rates him is just that. The kid lives at the line and takes good shots and defends. He is a true pro hard worker cocky but not crazy and a good passer. I just think he fits the mold of what I look for in a SG more than most in the draft. Yes he benched 185lbs 0 times I say so what the get is a flat out great basketball player. Who can shoot and score with anyone in this draft.


Like I said the SG spot is so deep I think Rivers(the last on my list) has more upside than Beal(#1 on my list). It is really just finding the guys game you like and for me that is Will Barton.

With Barton I also like his game, but getting to the lane in a 82 game season and being that small is not a healthy combination, he still has time to get stronger and add a little bulk, but I wonder how that will affect his game, as I said, not sure what happened to this guy but he tested as the 2nd least athletic guy at the combine.


Pacers have more pressing needs than trading up for a sg.

I'd rather take that 10 and trade with Houston for #14 & either the #16 or #18. You'd still get just as good of talent and you'd have 2 picks. And be able to choose a guy that fell in the draft.

I think Pritchard should get all the picks he can. Trade Hans for the Cavs 2 2nd rounders if he can't get their late first and a second. Bench need major upgrades, and I doubt we spend a lot in FA. There will still be good bench talent in the early 2nd round with Lamb, Crowder, Barton (possibly), Jenkins, Orlando Johnson, Darius Miller, Gordon, O'Quinn...Or package the 2nd rounds to move up to a late first and take Quincy Miller.

Houston already turned down that trade offer, and as far as the SG really it is about fit, and potential in my view if GH is going to be our starting point we will need a guy that can come in and be strong of the bench as a 2/3, to me that is what Ross offers, and he has more than the ability to step up to the starting role if something happens.


Oh, he's selfish. There's no doubt about that and his game winning shot against North Carolina didn't help matters. Kid has been told he walks on water for the past 4-5 years. The question is, is he good enough to be that selfish? Because the guy thinks he is Kobe. Rivers will absolutely believe he is one of the best scorers in the NBA the moment he is drafted.

I just don't think that will be true, which is why I would stay away.

I thin he will be one of the best scorers the moment he is drafted into the league but the problem is he is not consistent, and his defense needs work, so all that will do to start out with is frustrate the coach and get him riding the bench a lot.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2012, 03:18 PM
I'm still intrigued by what Lance is going to do for us this year.


Showing off his fancy duds sitting behind the bench.

Really?
06-27-2012, 03:25 PM
For his sake, I'd hope he'd rather go to a team that's shown it can win, and consider himself a piece that can help the team take that next step; as opposed to going to a team that's in the lottery where he would be the number one option. Every star in the league has come to know, you cant "do it by yourself". We need to realize, the kid is 19, maybe 20 yrs old. He's not going to come in and average 30 in the next yr or so. He has to learn the NBA game, and how/where to get his shot off.

Yes Denver played better without Melo, but then they got ousted in the first round the past few years b/c they lacked a go-to scorer. All real contenders in this league have a go-to scorer. I wouldn't expect Rivers to become that player for my team within his rookie year, but he's the type of talent that i think would be able to become that one day.

I think he knows he can not do it by himself but he needs to be in the right system with the right players around him.

Also there is not one person this season that averaged 30 points a game, and only 16 that averaged 20 or more. I personally feel he could average 20 points a game playing the style he does in a few years, but not even Kobe averaged 20 points per game until after his 3rd year.

Denver had scorers when Melo left, and when Melo was there they only made it out the first round one year in his whole career.

pacer4ever
06-27-2012, 03:26 PM
With Barton I also like his game, but getting to the lane in a 82 game season and being that small is not a healthy combination, he still has time to get stronger and add a little bulk, but I wonder how that will affect his game, as I said, not sure what happened to this guy but he tested as the 2nd least athletic guy at the combine.

.

He has never missed a game in his career like we have already discussed he plays a lot bigger. I was surprised by testing results but the guy plays athletic unless his tape is lying to me LOL. I think he is gonna be very athletic he is long and lengthy and he plays athletic on tape I dont know what eles to say. Again I will take the game tape over the combine in terms of how I think he moves and how athletic he is. I am sure not gonna now take Plumlee because he is an athlethic freak on tape Plumlee looked like an average athlete.
He is very good at passing and getting to the rim at will very unselfish knows how to play the game. Very good defense on tape I really never saw where he was limited by his supposedly poor combine testing honestly I dont see it on tape. Plus he plays tough hard nosed smash mouth ball.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DOvyJg_rvfE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Kevin Durant is skinny it has never stopped him from missing games and he attacks also watch at 2:20 cant agree more with the kid that is the best way to describe him a killer on offense

Justin Tyme
06-27-2012, 03:38 PM
Pacers have more pressing needs than trading up for a sg.

I'd rather take that 10 and trade with Houston for #14 & either the #16 or #18. You'd still get just as good of talent and you'd have 2 picks. And be able to choose a guy that fell in the draft.

I think Pritchard should get all the picks he can. Trade Hans for the Cavs 2 2nd rounders if he can't get their late first and a second. Bench need major upgrades, and I doubt we spend a lot in FA. There will still be good bench talent in the early 2nd round with Lamb, Crowder, Barton (possibly), Jenkins, Orlando Johnson, Darius Miller, Gordon, O'Quinn...Or package the 2nd rounds to move up to a late first and take Quincy Miller.



I'm so envious of Houston having the 14, 16, and 18 picks!!! They have an opportunity to get some good players at those picks.

I like the Cavs opportunties with the #23, 33, and 34 picks too.

Really?
06-27-2012, 03:40 PM
He has never missed a game in his career like we have already discussed he plays a lot bigger. I was surprised by testing results but the guy plays athletic unless his tape is lying to me LOL. I think he is gonna be very athletic he is long and lengthy and he plays athletic on tape I dont know what eles to say. Again I will take the game tape over the combine in terms of how I think he moves and how athletic he is. I am sure not gonna now take Plumlee because he is an athlethic freak on tape Plumlee looked like an average athlete.
He is very good at passing and getting to the rim at will very unselfish knows how to play the game. Very good defense on tape I really never saw where he was limited by his supposedly poor combine testing honestly I dont see it on tape. Plus he plays tough hard nosed smash mouth ball.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DOvyJg_rvfE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Kevin Durant is skinny it has never stopped him from missing games and he attacks also watch at 2:20 cant agree more with the kid that is the best way to describe him a killer on offense

Honestly I do not see it either on tape, but I am wondering if I will see it more if he puts up weight, possibly not but it was something that I was thinking about. As far as his durability in college I think the NBA is a lot more physical, and the strain that gets put on your body in a 82 game season is a lot more than that of a 30 game season in college. With him this is the only think I feel you have to worry about, not saying he should be a late round pick because of it but it is something I would consider when gauging how high I would draft him.

KD is a different kind of beast to me, he had to add strength and muscle when he got into the league as well and now almost weighs 240, which is not bad for his position.

Really?
06-27-2012, 03:41 PM
I'm so envious of Houston having the 14, 16, and 18 picks!!! They have an opportunity to get some good players at those picks.

I like the Cavs opportunties with the #23, 33, and 34 picks too.

They just traded 14 to move up to 12

Slick Pinkham
06-27-2012, 04:00 PM
I'd like to have pick #10 but not for picking Rivers. I question his work ethic, shot selection, and unselfishness

indygeezer
06-27-2012, 04:05 PM
I only know what I saw of Rivers during the NCAAs' but going from that and your descriptors of him, he sounds like he belongs in Philadelphia. They are used to someone like him.

Eddie Gill
06-27-2012, 04:16 PM
He again was a terrible fit he should of never went to FL.

Yep. Should've stayed home and played on that Mizzou team.

Naptown_Seth
06-27-2012, 04:28 PM
Now hold on, does the team really need a guy with no conscience when it comes to shooting? Didn't we just start to see Granger reign in some of his horrible shot selection to the benefit of the team? Didn't we see big problems with Barbosa during some of his ice cold chuck-fests?

You need a shooter for the bench and the guy needs ice veins for sure, but he also needs to be willing to let the PG have control and be able to go find his own shots without the ball, like working off of shot screens, etc.

Isn't DC already a shooter that wants to have the ball most of the time? Ditto Hill? So you trade DC to get another DC? Why not get a shooter that can use Lou for screens so that Lou can actually participate in the offensive end and give you improved spacing. 3 guys watching 2 guys dribble was a big part of the problem. One high PnR as the entire offense when the Roll guy isn't capable of doing much if the ball comes back to him isn't offense either.

Naptown_Seth
06-27-2012, 04:32 PM
Again I will take the game tape over the combine in terms of how I think he moves and how athletic he is. I am sure not gonna now take Plumlee because he is an athlethic freak on tape Plumlee looked like an average athlete.
100% agree P4Ever.

All the combine tells me is if a guy has talent that his brain has no idea how to use. Congrats, you just took a cone off the dribble and when I told you to jump you jumped pretty high. Now get your brain to tell you when and how to do this with split second choices during the game.

That's why some "athletes" look plain during games. The brain is part of their athletic system, it has to be good at telling the body when and where in a timely fashion. And if you think an issue like that is going to drastically change in a 21-22 year old, good luck. This isn't the same as the brain catching up to a growth spurt.

Jeremy
06-27-2012, 04:35 PM
If I'm picking at 10 i'm going for Jeremy Lamb. He will remind a lot of people of Reggie Miller.

Pacersalltheway10
06-27-2012, 05:16 PM
I would hate this trade and selection more than if we drafted Draymond Green. Rivers will be a complete bust. Also he travels all the time. NBA refs won't give him those calls anymore if he's on the Pacers.

Steagles
06-27-2012, 05:29 PM
I would hate this trade and selection more than if we drafted Draymond Green. Rivers will be a complete bust. Also he travels all the time. NBA refs won't give him those calls anymore if he's on the Pacers.

Although I would rather get Marshall, Rivers will be a good player after being trained at the NBA level IMO. My top 3 are 1: Marshall, 2: Lillard and 3: Rivers.

Really?
06-27-2012, 05:35 PM
I would hate this trade and selection more than if we drafted Draymond Green. Rivers will be a complete bust. Also he travels all the time. NBA refs won't give him those calls anymore if he's on the Pacers.

Question, how often do you see traveling called in the NBA?

Really?
06-27-2012, 05:36 PM
If I'm picking at 10 i'm going for Jeremy Lamb. He will remind a lot of people of Reggie Miller.

Does he remind you of Reggie?

3rdStrike
06-27-2012, 08:00 PM
I'd like to have pick #10 but not for picking Rivers. I question his work ethic, shot selection, and unselfishness

You know, it's the funniest thing. I thought you were talking about Danny Granger. And yeah, DC + 26 for Rivers would be a no brainer IMO. Too many positives to get into, and the only negatives are iffy stuff like that which you can say about any player not destined to be a bench warmer (and probably bench warmers, too).

Jeremy
06-27-2012, 08:01 PM
Does he remind you of Reggie?
Well he isn't as good of a shooter as Reggie was right now but he could be in the future. For what it's worth, NBADraft.net has him compared to Reggie and at the moment has him going 10th. They update it every 10 minutes or so, though.

Steagles
06-27-2012, 08:30 PM
I'd still do this trade and try to pull a Cleveland Browns and move back one position at a time and stockpile other picks and get Kendall Marshall. The more I see his highlights the more I like the kid's game.

Dr. Awesome
06-27-2012, 08:30 PM
Here's my question because I'd vastly prefer Beal...does Danny+26 get you high enough for Beal, and if so would you do it? Rivers is just such a risk to me. I would be very luke warm about it.
I don't do it. If we are trading an All-Star caliber player for a rookie, we need to make damn sure of two things: 1. That the rookie is worth it. 2. That the rookie would be in a position to succeed.

Until we get a real PG, I just don't see how Beal can come in and be the man. Hill/Beal/George/West/Hibbert is definitely intriguing though.

Sadly, the more that I look at the lineup, the more I like the future of the team haha. I don't know, its a tough one. I prefer MKG to Beal as a player, leader, and winner. Beal might fit our team better though.

Why do you do this to me!?!?!

Dr. Awesome
06-27-2012, 08:31 PM
As for Austin Rivers: HELL NO!

The guy does nothing for us. We need a PG, not another combo guard.

pwee31
06-27-2012, 08:33 PM
Ford's proposal is what I asked for all along

Sparhawk
06-27-2012, 09:52 PM
You don't trade up for a backup SG! PG is the starter and will be for a long time. I'm sure Rivers would resent being a backup and bolt when his rookie contract is up. Rivers thinks he's better than what he really is, add to the fact that he's undersized.

If you trade up that high, go all the way for Lillard. If the Pacers stay at 10, go big with Zeller or Drummond if Lillard isn't there.

Or the Pacers get the 10 pick, trade back a couple spots and try to get multiple picks or future picks. Like offer the #10 for Lowry + 16 + 18, since it seems Houston is trading all their players for high picks. haha

The Pacers bench needs a serious upgrade. Also, if the Pacers trade up for Rivers, then the Lance project is over. I still want to give Lance a real shot next year before the Pacers look elsewhere.

*astrisk*
06-27-2012, 10:07 PM
Or the Pacers get the 10 pick, trade back a couple spots and try to get multiple picks or future picks. Like offer the #10 for Lowry + 16 + 18, since it seems Houston is trading all their players for high picks. haha

The Pacers bench needs a serious upgrade. Also, if the Pacers trade up for Rivers, then the Lance project is over. I still want to give Lance a real shot next year before the Pacers look elsewhere.

Oh my god Sparhawk! I love that! I would be all for doing something like that! I would even eat K-Marts contract to get that done! I mean, Lowry, K-Mart, Royce White and Sullenger solves the bench scoring issues we have for sure!

Really?
06-27-2012, 10:50 PM
You don't trade up for a backup SG! PG is the starter and will be for a long time. I'm sure Rivers would resent being a backup and bolt when his rookie contract is up. Rivers thinks he's better than what he really is, add to the fact that he's undersized.

If you trade up that high, go all the way for Lillard. If the Pacers stay at 10, go big with Zeller or Drummond if Lillard isn't there.

Or the Pacers get the 10 pick, trade back a couple spots and try to get multiple picks or future picks. Like offer the #10 for Lowry + 16 + 18, since it seems Houston is trading all their players for high picks. haha

The Pacers bench needs a serious upgrade. Also, if the Pacers trade up for Rivers, then the Lance project is over. I still want to give Lance a real shot next year before the Pacers look elsewhere.

Honestly anyone the Pacers draft will come in as a backup, and Rivers has the potential to push the Pacers to trade Danny after the season is over if he learns how to be an efficient teammate while still playing his game; and as far as undersized he is not, that is a common misconception, dude is 6'5 how tall do you need your 2 guard to be, that is the same height as Ray Allen, James Harden and the majority of 2 guards in the league.

I also Like Lillard but you are extremely underrating Rivers.'

Drummond will be gone, and Zeller is a decent pick, quality starter for the future without anytime of all star potential.

pwee31
06-27-2012, 10:55 PM
You don't trade up for a backup SG! PG is the starter and will be for a long time. I'm sure Rivers would resent being a backup and bolt when his rookie contract is up. Rivers thinks he's better than what he really is, add to the fact that he's undersized.

If you trade up that high, go all the way for Lillard. If the Pacers stay at 10, go big with Zeller or Drummond if Lillard isn't there.

Or the Pacers get the 10 pick, trade back a couple spots and try to get multiple picks or future picks. Like offer the #10 for Lowry + 16 + 18, since it seems Houston is trading all their players for high picks. haha

The Pacers bench needs a serious upgrade. Also, if the Pacers trade up for Rivers, then the Lance project is over. I still want to give Lance a real shot next year before the Pacers look elsewhere.

Lowry, 16 & 18 for #10? what is this NBA 2K?

Plus Rockets already traded #16 to Bucks, and in return got their #12.

Kings already turned down #14 & Lowry for #5 & Chuck Hayes

Cactus Jax
06-27-2012, 11:08 PM
Lowry, 16 & 18 for #10? what is this NBA 2K?

Plus Rockets already traded #16 to Bucks, and in return got their #12.

Kings already turned down #14 & Lowry for #5 & Chuck Hayes

Rockets traded the 14 to get 12. They have 12, 16, and 18 atm.

PacerPenguins
06-27-2012, 11:42 PM
i still wouldn't mind taking Zeller at 10 if we due in fact trade up. I think he could really contribute to our team and will be a quality big man to back up hibbert and west

eldubious
06-28-2012, 12:42 AM
If I'm picking at 10 i'm going for Jeremy Lamb. He will remind a lot of people of Reggie Miller.

I'm thinking the same thing. Lamb has the potential to be an all-star, I'd rate him as the best SG in the draft. Donnie probably sees Reggie in him too.

presto123
06-28-2012, 01:49 AM
I too think Rivers will be a bust. Maybe not a complete bust but a bust compared to expectations anyway.

imbtyler
06-28-2012, 02:32 AM
I still would absolutely do this trade. Like I've said before, if we got the #10 for DC, I really think we should focus on picking up Perry Jones (replaces Hansbrough instantly, makes him expendable).

Then we trade Hansbrough for an equivalent late-lottery pick, and get Kendall Marshall. With those two guys, we focus on extending offers to free agent point guards (Williams, Nash, whoever might work), and then start the Jones and Marshall projects.

If we (by the grace of God and Pritch) managed to snatch up a third pick, we could pick up Austin Rivers, and we've got a pretty great team, imo, even without a FA PG.

The problem that remains, however, is the backup C position, because unless we stretch Jones III to the 5, I would be content with a Fab Melo, Arnett Moultrie, even Ezeli or Miles Plumlee. I don't really have a problem with these prospects, I just don't want use to waste our ONLY pick (likely #26) on these guys, when there are other items that have to be addressed.

I know that this draft day activity should be placed in the "dream pick" thread, but if we moved enough around and made it happen, Pritch would immediately be worthy of worship. :pray:

Honestly, if we walked away with any combination of two of the players mentioned, one from each "tier" (Jones, Marshall, Rivers, and Melo, Moultrie, Plumlee), I will be decently content. I don't truly expect it to happen, but it would be pretty great. That would give us two decent backups, which makes us better and deeper, and entices free agents. I would so greatly love to have Nash here.

Anyway, yes, I would definitely do the DC+26 for Austin Rivers at 10. I'd much rather have Jones or Marshall at that spot, but I would take it.

SycamoreKen
06-28-2012, 02:46 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Reggie kind of a brash gunslinger when he entered the league? I certainly know Kobe was.

Part of the problem, from everything I have read, is he doesn't have the talent to match the attitude. I have a feeling he is going to get a lot of "welcome to the big leagues junior" games from guys like Kobe and Wade.

presto123
06-28-2012, 04:40 AM
Part of the problem, from everything I have read, is he doesn't have the talent to match the attitude. I have a feeling he is going to get a lot of "welcome to the big leagues junior" games from guys like Kobe and Wade.


Came out WAAAYYY too early. Sign of the times:(