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View Full Version : What Houston is doing is VERY Interesting...



*astrisk*
06-26-2012, 12:20 PM
Acquired another Top 20 Pick in this Draft... Looks like they just might have enough get a deal for Howard done.

If they can pull that off and shed a little more salary, they would be in a prime position to get Deron Williams, too... Addition by subtraction, eliminate Williams and Howard from the East would be great for the Pacers!

Roy would then be the Best Center in the East by a good margin..

Thoughts?

BornReady#6
06-26-2012, 12:28 PM
I agree, I was gonna comment on this yesterday, I wouldnt mind sending our pick for chase or pat patterson (lol), or adding a player to get lowry, he is a baller. Well guess not budinger now that he is gone. He will be a good fit in Minny though. Love, Budinger and Rubio, white boi squad lol.

Psyren
06-26-2012, 12:32 PM
Yes, they can get Howard so he can leave in a year.

I know they think they can convince him to stay, but I dont believe that for a second.

Morey is delusional, but i guess its worth a shot.

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 12:34 PM
If they can get Deron, I wouldn't be surprised if Howard stayed.

wintermute
06-26-2012, 12:43 PM
I'm still surprised that the Rockets got a first rounder for Budinger. I mean, the Twolves could very well sign him for free next year. It's pretty clear that Budinger wasn't in the Rox plans going forward, but they still managed to salvage a pretty nice asset for him. Kudos to Daryl Morey I guess.

RichardHawes
06-26-2012, 12:45 PM
Very interesting and could build a very solid package for Dwight but the only thing I can think of would be them trading him off in February. I cant see him resigning

Steagles
06-26-2012, 01:08 PM
The more I see the little value of picks, the more I like the idea of 26, DC and or Hans for a high pick. This could just work.


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ballism
06-26-2012, 01:08 PM
Roy would then be the Best Center in the East by a good margin..

He wouldn't (be the best center by a good margin).

ballism
06-26-2012, 01:09 PM
re Houston, if Morey somehow ends up with Dwight and Deron, that will be the best GM performance I can remember.

I mean, Riley getting Miami big 3 was awesome; but without a top 3 player already there, it probably doesn't happen.
RC Buford did an amazing job surrounding Duncan; but Duncan himself = luck.
Presti is awesome, but it took a ton of luck (what if he wins the Oden draft? just one of many what ifs).

If Morey gets this done, this will be the ultimate "retool" job, no super luck involved, no tanking, just moving assets aggressively until you can buy the bank.

*astrisk*
06-26-2012, 01:18 PM
He wouldn't (be the best center by a good margin).

You are probably right Ballism... He'd be the only Center in the East by a large margin...

*astrisk*
06-26-2012, 01:19 PM
re Houston, if Morey somehow ends up with Dwight and Deron, that will be the best GM performance I can remember.

I mean, Riley getting Miami big 3 was awesome; but without a top 3 player already there, it probably doesn't happen.
RC Buford did an amazing job surrounding Duncan; but Duncan himself = luck.
Presti is awesome, but it took a ton of luck (what if he wins the Oden draft? just one of many what ifs).

If Morey gets this done, this will be the ultimate "retool" job, no super luck involved, no tanking, just moving assets aggressively until you can buy the bank.

I completely agree with your assessment

Sparhawk
06-26-2012, 01:20 PM
If the Pacers get a high pick, turn around and trade it to Houston for 2 of those middle first round picks and maybe a player like Dalembert (if Hibbs goes elsewhere).

Can still get a guy like Perry Jones, Terrance Jones, Moultrie, Melo, Royce White, etc. Plenty of good talent in the middle 1st round.

yoadknux
06-26-2012, 01:24 PM
You are probably right Ballism... He'd be the only Center in the East by a large margin...
You make it sound like Hibbert is a dominant all star center. He's not. He's above average and gives decent production. Hibbert isn't a whole lot better than Noah, Chandler and Nene. He doesn't match up well against them. And Monroe and Horford should be just as good as Hibbert.

Slick Pinkham
06-26-2012, 01:25 PM
Rockets fans think they will go after Josh Smith, if Howard makes it clear that Houston is not a place he will be, long-term.

ballism
06-26-2012, 01:29 PM
You are probably right Ballism... He'd be the only Center in the East by a large margin...

i suppose if you are only counting "traditional" centers. but who really cares nowadays. you are either good at the position, or not.

If Howard is gone, Roy would be one of 5 or 6 comparable centers in the East.
He's not the best 'by a good margin'.

Anyway, the Western conference would be incredible. Most of the teams would have a great center. Howard, Bynum, Cousins, Bogut, two Gasols, Duncan, Anthony Davis, Al Jefferson, Gortat, Pekovic....

*astrisk*
06-26-2012, 01:45 PM
You make it sound like Hibbert is a dominant all star center. He's not. He's above average and gives decent production. Hibbert isn't a whole lot better than Noah, Chandler and Nene. He doesn't match up well against them. And Monroe and Horford should be just as good as Hibbert.

I'm not saying Hibbert is dominant... He has the ability to dominate, but NOT the athleticism, nor the PG...

What I am saying is that NO Center in the East is consistently dominant. Hibbert just happens to be the BEST ALL AROUND of the group.

Noah? Chandler? NeNe?... They are your standard bearers? Monroe and Horford lack the size to be really considered Centers... Both have gotten physically pummelled this year. But, like you I appreciate their games..

*astrisk*
06-26-2012, 01:55 PM
i suppose if you are only counting "traditional" centers. but who really cares. you are either good at the position, or not.

If Howard is gone, Roy would be one of 5 or 6 comparable best guys who play center in the East.
He would have a much better shot to become an All Star again.
But he's not the best 'by a good margin'.

Anyway, Howard, Bynum, Cousins, not to mention Bogut, Marc Gasol, Anthony Davis, Al Jefferson, Gortat, Nikola Pekovic, Duncan and several others....
The Western conference would look like it's the 90s again.

So, let me get this straight? Roy Hibbert is NOT GOOD at his position of Center?

And I am not arguing that he is better than the best in the West... The guy lacks the athleticism to get the ball consistently in the Post without help, and we have no players that are good enough and creative enough to get him the rock... When he gets the ball in the post,however, his ability to either make the right basketball play and or get the ball in the basket is undeniable.. Chandler? NeNe? Noah? C'Mon man!

ballism
06-26-2012, 02:01 PM
Hibbert just happens to be the BEST ALL AROUND of the group.

that's very debatable. i think you can just put 5-6 (possibly more) names into a hat and pull one out.
but if Roy's slightly better or not, that's at least debatable IMO. Claiming that he's better than everyone by a good margin --- to me that's wishful thinking.

*astrisk*
06-26-2012, 02:08 PM
that's very debatable. i think you can just put 5-6 (possibly more) names into a hat and pull one out.
but if Roy's slightly better or not, that's at least debatable IMO. Claiming that he's better than everyone by a good margin --- to me that's wishful thinking.

Heck no, Ballism... I hate to come off as a homer here. No CENTER in the East (past Howard) has the size, durability, offensive and defensive ability and skill set to compare with Roy. Anyway.. That's my rant on him.. I like his game (compared to guys I HAVE NO Respect for... I respect your opinion tho

ballism
06-26-2012, 02:09 PM
So, let me get this straight? Roy Hibbert is NOT GOOD at his position of Center?


?


And I am not arguing that he is better than the best in the West...

I know, that was a side note, not related to your post.


Chandler? NeNe? Noah? C'Mon man!
Nene is probably a PF next year, and I was never a fan either way, but I can see the argument.
But Noah, Chandler, Horford, Monroe, absolutely in the conversation.
I suppose Bosh and Garnett could be there as well, as they mostly play 5.

Mac_Daddy
06-26-2012, 02:35 PM
Pretty sure Deron is set on wanting either Dallas or Brooklyn/NY. Pretty sure Howard doesn't want to go to Houston, not would he stay there. It might just be a way for the Rockets to dump a crapload of salary and start over after next season when Howard doesn't resign.

ballism
06-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Pretty sure Deron is set on wanting either Dallas or Brooklyn/NY. Pretty sure Howard doesn't want to go to Houston, not would he stay there. It might just be a way for the Rockets to dump a crapload of salary and start over after next season when Howard doesn't resign.

it doesn't make the most sense now, for either of them. but it's a big market, big spending ownership, no state income tax. if Dwight is there, I think it will become one of the favorites for Deron.

PR07
06-26-2012, 02:55 PM
It's very risky. If you can get Dwight and Deron, Morey is a genius; but if it fails, and Dwight bolts after one season, then you just lost two building blocks that would presumably be two Top 10 picks.

Cactus Jax
06-26-2012, 03:12 PM
Tyson Chandler would be starting all-star games at center before Hibbert just cause he's on the Knicks. (and also he isn't bad either)

IUfan4life
06-26-2012, 03:34 PM
?



I know, that was a side note, not related to your post.


Nene is probably a PF next year, and I was never a fan either way, but I can see the argument.
But Noah, Chandler, Horford, Monroe, absolutely in the conversation.
I suppose Bosh and Garnett could be there as well, as they mostly play 5.

I'd definitely take Noah, Chandler, Horford, Bosh, and Garnett ahead of Hibbert. If we're talking merely how good they are and not age/contract etc. I haven't seen enough of Monroe to judge, but I think Those guys all have a heyday with hibbert

imbtyler
06-26-2012, 03:43 PM
Chase Budinger for the 18th pick is a great move. Trading a mediocre talent for a pick that will definitely reel in a decent player, presumably better than Budinger. I don't see why DC or Hansbrough couldn't land us a decently higher first round pick.

CableKC
06-26-2012, 03:54 PM
Chase Budinger for the 18th pick is a great move. Trading a mediocre talent for a pick that will definitely reel in a decent player, presumably better than Budinger. I don't see why DC or Hansbrough couldn't land us a decently higher first round pick.
I don't think that Hansbrough could net a higher draft pick. When it comes to value....Budinger, DC and Hansbrough are in similar boats. DC maybe able to net a pick in the late teens/early 20s whereas Hansbrough probably could net us some pick in the 20s if not early 2nd round.

Sparhawk
06-26-2012, 04:10 PM
I don't think that Hansbrough could net a higher draft pick. When it comes to value....Budinger, DC and Hansbrough are in similar boats. DC maybe able to net a pick in the late teens/early 20s whereas Hansbrough probably could net us some pick in the 20s if not early 2nd round.

I'm hoping Pritchard can pull off Hans to the Cavs for the 24 and 34. With Jamison likely gone, Tristan Thompson is the starting PF. Hans could be a nice bruiser off the bench for them.

Pacers need cheap bench depth, and you do that through the draft.

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2012, 05:11 PM
i suppose if you are only counting "traditional" centers. but who really cares nowadays. you are either good at the position, or not.

If Howard is gone, Roy would be one of 5 or 6 comparable centers in the East.
He's not the best 'by a good margin'.

Anyway, the Western conference would be incredible. Most of the teams would have a great center. Howard, Bynum, Cousins, Bogut, two Gasols, Duncan, Anthony Davis, Al Jefferson, Gortat, Pekovic....
And really Cousins could be the head of the pack with his size and skill set. He plays a better game than Bynum, more physical IMO, and is more athletic and smooth than Howard.

Keeping your head on straight or maturing aren't givens, but we saw last year that he could just destroy teams at times (like the Pacers and all those rebounds).


I think Noah and Chandler are better than Hibbert right now. At times he can be great, but his next step has to be the lefty hooks and other plays on a consistent basis, not just good nights or the right matchup. He's close, the shot blocking is great, but he's got another step with consistency and perhaps also with non-TO passing. I think he gets there based on the last 2 years of progress.

tadscout
06-26-2012, 05:23 PM
I'm hoping Pritchard can pull off Hans to the Cavs for the 24 and 34. With Jamison likely gone, Tristan Thompson is the starting PF. Hans could be a nice bruiser off the bench for them.

Pacers need cheap bench depth, and you do that through the draft.

As many FA's we have I really do hope we can trade and gain some cheap bench depth through the draft.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 05:48 PM
Chase Budinger for the 18th pick is a great move. Trading a mediocre talent for a pick that will definitely reel in a decent player, presumably better than Budinger. I don't see why DC or Hansbrough couldn't land us a decently higher first round pick.


Not bad turning a 2nd rd #44 pick into a 1st round #18 pick. I've seen others scoff at such a transaction happening in the past, so here is proof it can be done.

If Budinger can net a #18, surely DC can net something even better.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 05:55 PM
My gosh, even if Houston uses these picks to draft players for themselves, they can get some really nice quality players!! I'd love to have their picks to draft with. Jealousy is the color green, right?

Hicks
06-26-2012, 05:57 PM
Not bad turning a 2nd rd #44 pick into a 1st round #18 pick. I've seen others scoff at such a transaction happening in the past, so here is proof it can be done.

If Budinger can net a #18, surely DC can net something even better.

Well, yeah, after you wait 3 years and he happens to prove to be a great pick for #44, sure, you can then trade him like this.

Wage
06-26-2012, 06:30 PM
Not bad turning a 2nd rd #44 pick into a 1st round #18 pick. I've seen others scoff at such a transaction happening in the past, so here is proof it can be done.

If Budinger can net a #18, surely DC can net something even better.

Sure it can be done. You can also get rich by playing the lottery.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 06:35 PM
Sure it can be done. You can also get rich by playing the lottery.


I like the odds better than the odds of winning the lottery.

Wage
06-26-2012, 06:43 PM
I like the odds better than the odds of winning the lottery.

I agree. Point is, neither is a good option to feed your family.

spreedom
06-26-2012, 07:03 PM
I'd definitely take Noah, Chandler, Horford, Bosh, and Garnett ahead of Hibbert. If we're talking merely how good they are and not age/contract etc. I haven't seen enough of Monroe to judge, but I think Those guys all have a heyday with hibbert

Yeah, I think it's very reasonable to say that Noah, Horford, and Chandler (who all play almost exclusively at center) are better players than Roy at this point. No knock on the big fella.

*astrisk*
06-27-2012, 03:40 PM
Adrian woj...reporting rockets trade dalembert and #14 for #12...

Hicks
06-27-2012, 03:46 PM
Wild stuff with Houston. I can't imagine Indiana ever doing that kind of thing.

*astrisk*
06-27-2012, 03:52 PM
Wild stuff with Houston. I can't imagine Indiana ever doing that kind of thing.

You are right Hicks... Looks like Morey and the Rockets are ALL IN!!!

Lance George
06-27-2012, 03:55 PM
Houston now has picks 12, 16, 18, and Kyle Lowry. It definitely looks like they're working on something fairly big, either an attempt at jumping way up in the lottery, or a swing-for-the-fences trade for Dwight.

Hicks
06-27-2012, 04:00 PM
We'll take those 4 off your hands for Danny. :D

90'sNBARocked
06-27-2012, 04:03 PM
And the fire sale continues
http://www.hoopsworld.com/houstons-next-move-dalembert-to-bucks

Houston’s Next Move: Dalembert To Bucks

By Bill Ingram
Senior NBA Editor


The Houston Rockets continued their draft day lottery extravaganza on Wednesday afternoon, reaching an agreement to send Samuel Dalembert and the 14th pick to the Milwaukee Bucks in exchange for the 12th pick, Jon Brockman, Shaun Livingston and Jon Leurer, according to Yahoo! Sports.

Don’t get too carried away trying to think about how these pieces fit together in Houston or who they might be targeting with the 12th pick who might not have been there at 14. The Rockets are merely acquiring as many assets as possible to put on the table in other moves. Dwight Howard, Josh Smith and Rudy Gay are all on Houston’s radar.

Doddage
06-27-2012, 04:03 PM
Good trade for Milwaukee. They needed a center really bad after trading Bogut, and all they had to do was move down two spots. And they got to get rid of some trash on their roster in the process.

Slick Pinkham
06-27-2012, 04:05 PM
Houston will dominate in H-O-R-S-E

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9PcGIj4rc7E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nuntius
06-27-2012, 04:27 PM
And they got to get rid of some trash on their roster in the process.

Jon Leuer is not trash. He's a player I'd want to play here. But it's a good move for the Bucks :)

Justin Tyme
06-27-2012, 04:33 PM
We'll take those 4 off your hands for Danny. :D


In a heartbeat! Unfortunately, Granger could never command that type of a trade. but it SURE would be nice.

Justin Tyme
06-27-2012, 04:36 PM
If either Lowry or Dragic is moved, then Livingston is their b/u PG.

CableKC
06-27-2012, 05:31 PM
We'll take those 4 off your hands for Danny. :D
I would consider Lowry+12+18+Courtney Lee for DC+Granger+26.

CableKC
06-27-2012, 05:35 PM
Houston now has picks 12, 16, 18, and Kyle Lowry. It definitely looks like they're working on something fairly big, either an attempt at jumping way up in the lottery, or a swing-for-the-fences trade for Dwight.
It's really hard to figure out what their SalaryCap situation is right now....but can they ( A ) trade Lowry, ( B ) trade for either Pau or JSmoove and then ( C ) make a run at both Dragic AND Hibbert?

I get the sense that they can do all of this given all of the assets that they have acquired.

Cactus Jax
06-27-2012, 05:43 PM
They're trying for Dwight + Deron, there's no doubt in my mind. I'm taking the whole roster if I'm Orlando from Houston.

Deadshot
06-27-2012, 05:47 PM
If either Lowry or Dragic is moved, then Livingston is their b/u PG.

Which was the case in Charlotte before last season (I know you follow the Cats closely too). I liked Livingston as a lengthy point guard and he seems to be healthy now.

CableKC
06-27-2012, 05:51 PM
They're trying for Dwight + Deron, there's no doubt in my mind. I'm taking the whole roster if I'm Orlando from Houston.
Many Insiders think that even if Dwight was traded to Houston....he wouldn't sign an extension there....nor would DWill be willing to go there just because Dwight is there.

Besides....I'd suspect that they won't have the capspace. There is no way that the Magic doesn't require that the Team that gets Dwight doesn't also buy a One-Way ticket out of Orlando for Hedo or JRich. That's a total of $25 to 30 mil in guaranteed Salary that would likely eat up the Capspace left to make a MAX contract offer to DWill.

Deadshot
06-27-2012, 06:09 PM
This will be a rebuilding year for the Magic anyway - a lot of those players come off the books next summer. While they might look to shed the cap at least some, you have to think that the picks will be intriguing (and Dwight doesn't want to be there anyway).

ballism
06-27-2012, 06:21 PM
It's really hard to figure out what their SalaryCap situation is right now....but can they ( A ) trade Lowry, ( B ) trade for either Pau or JSmoove and then ( C ) make a run at both Dragic AND Hibbert?

I get the sense that they can do all of this given all of the assets that they have acquired.

they don't really have much cap, if any, once you account for all their valuable cap holds, such as Dragic, Courtney Lee, picks, etc.

Very rough estimation, they are somewhere in the 55-60 mil range with all the cap holds (of good young players, not counting the likes of Camby) and options right now.

So to do what you suggest, they would have to (1) send out similar salaries in the Pau deal (e.g. Martin + Lowry); (2) denounce a number of good assets before going after Hibbert.
So instead of trying to "steal" restricted free agents, it makes more sense to them to explore sign and trades, since they lose something valuable one way or another.

But they will clearly try to make further deals, and their cap situation may change.

spreedom
06-27-2012, 06:27 PM
Jon Leuer is not trash. He's a player I'd want to play here. But it's a good move for the Bucks :)

Yup, I'd love to have Leuer as our backup 4.