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MunciePacerBabe
06-26-2012, 05:10 AM
http://www.wthr.com/story/18878911/larry-bird-to-leave-the-pacers

I heard this today on WTHR as I was just waking up....thought I was having a nightmare! I looked everywhere for the past 30 minutes and finally found this on the station's website. I am not sure if it is just speculation or not. Yikes!!! Today could be interesting, to say the least.

Also, FOX 59 is going to have Roy Hibbert and some of the Area 55 members on in the nine o'clock hour....heard that as I was looking for the Larry Bird news.

Hypnotiq
06-26-2012, 05:16 AM
Maybe he is im just putting the pieces together and Maybe this is why we got Donnie back

oh man i hope this isnt true

xBulletproof
06-26-2012, 05:29 AM
I have a hard time believing a story that spells it the "New York Nicks" .......

:laugh:

ErikD.
06-26-2012, 05:30 AM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120626/SPORTS04/120625056/Larry-Bird-leaving-Pacers?odyssey=mod|defcon|text|IndyStar.com
It's up on Indystar now.

Hypnotiq
06-26-2012, 05:31 AM
Oh man its from Wells this means its true :cry:

ErikD.
06-26-2012, 05:34 AM
Excited about Pritchard being our GM. Sad to see Bird go, I never heard what his "health issues" are but I hope things are going to be good for him.

Roaming Gnome
06-26-2012, 05:45 AM
Believe it or not... The Indy Star "Print Edition" had this in our hands at 2:15am this morning right on the top banner!

Speed
06-26-2012, 06:03 AM
I'm really surprised by this and the timing of it. Donnie/Pritchard have a tough act to follow. Have those two worked together before?

Willbo
06-26-2012, 06:08 AM
Funny thing, I never really felt I had a strong position on Bird as Pres until I read this. Suddenly Im gutted - and a little worried. Thanks again Legend.

For the record I was similarly indifferent to the news of Walsh returning - however that indifference is mutating into premature horror at the thought he will be Bird's replacement. I always liked DW but it feels like the franchise has moved on - its time for new thinking, not old thinking.

Does this shed any light on the Morway departure? Perhaps the key players (Simon, Morway, Pritchard) knew Bird was on the way out and it was clear Pritchard was the anointed successor? Does that make the Morway departure make any more sense? Does it explain the conspicuous absence of Pritchards naming coming up despite the plethora of GM jobs available? Im not really sure... (although it is a convenient interpretation of events that holds Pritchard will take the reins - something I am hoping for so may be a somewhat less than scientific analysis)

ballism
06-26-2012, 06:18 AM
Believe it or not... The Indy Star "Print Edition" had this in our hands at 2:15am this morning right on the top banner!

have to admire Indy Star then. They must've told their online staff to keep it in house, and for quite a while.
It takes a lot of confidence in your staff to do it nowadays, when every little whisper ends up on 100 blogs.

ballism
06-26-2012, 06:25 AM
re the whole thing ---- Bird is known to change his mind on the subject, but this has been way over the top.

Bird-Morway drama, Bird stays, Bird leaves.

The next thing we know, Morway is back and Pritch is gone.

Roaming Gnome
06-26-2012, 06:32 AM
have to admire Indy Star then. They must've told their online staff to keep it in house, and for quite a while.
It takes a lot of confidence in your staff to do it nowadays, when every little whisper ends up on 100 blogs.

Normally, at our Star Media distribution center we receive the daily "METRO" paper at 1:45am... The delay was only 30mins today which tells me that you're probably right about The Star wanting this to be broken by the "Print Edition". For late breaking sports news we usually receive papers closer to 3-3:15am or later.

1984
06-26-2012, 07:06 AM
I'm really surprised by this and the timing of it. Donnie/Pritchard have a tough act to follow. Have those two worked together before?

Tell me Walsh has no authority, TELL ME!

Ownagedood
06-26-2012, 07:15 AM
Ugh, Bird out and Walsh in.. I'm not liking this at all.. I really liked what bird was doing with the team.. And I don't trust Donnie. Not news I wanna hear first thing in the morning!

TheDon
06-26-2012, 07:18 AM
One of the things I was really shocked about when first joining pacersdigest was the level of ire and disdain people had for Donnie Walsh after some of the things that happened while he was here. I agree he isn't without fault, but who isn't? At the time the only person i could sort of understand the disdain for Walsh was Peck and it had more to do with the type of culture that he inadvertantly created by going purely after talent which is fair. I just wasn't one to play the blame game back when it felt like there was team bird and team walsh and every little event that transpired was a chance to point the finger at the other.

I think one of the positives that this could bring about trying to look on the bright side of all of this is I think with Walsh/Pritchard we're going to be super agressive in the whole trading and free agency side of things, and I think that with Walsh being as close to Simon and has his trust maybe can convince him to spend a little extra here and there. I also think that the "overvaluing" of our own players that Bird seemed to have goes bye bye and anyone not named roy hibbert becomes tradeable. I think sometimes Bird kind of got too attached with the players (not a bad thing at all and something that's honestly lacking in probably most other teams' front offices), but people have said and I agreed with that as long as Larry Bird is around Granger isn't going anywhere.

Whatever ends up happening I just hope everyone is on the same page going forward and we already have an idea of what direction we want to take this whole thing.

Also random funny story I actually made my screen name here with Walsh in mind cause I thought if I made one with relation to some player they would end up getting traded and Walsh had already been here with us for forever thought "well it's not like he's going anywhere." **sigh**...oh past TheDon...there are so many things I wish I could tell you and sadly I cannot.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 07:30 AM
Sweet. So we're back to a two headed monster. A Simon guy in Morway gets canned, Bird's old friend Pritchard gets a promotion, now Simon's pal in Walsh is back.

Walsh is pretty clearly insanely competent, but it just seems like at some point lines were drawn. I hope it's really Larry's back and just not wanting to do it anymore instead of the raising the payroll stuff. Herb and Mel never had a problem spending before, relative to the market size, but times are clearly different.

xBulletproof
06-26-2012, 07:34 AM
Ugh. This is ********.

Speed
06-26-2012, 07:38 AM
Maybe Donnie's interim President.... with Larry taking a year off to rest, just throwing possiblities out there.

billbradley
06-26-2012, 07:48 AM
I just don't understand. How does Larry go from the press conference and this picture of him working with prospects a few days ago...

http://instagr.am/p/MLvgGdGYex/

now he is just "leaving?"

Doesn't sound right to me. If Bird doesn't stay president I would think he would still be working with the team somehow. Why be involved and then leave two days before the draft?

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 07:54 AM
SBnation speculates its a health related reason. We know he's planning to have back surgery.....

fwpacerfan
06-26-2012, 07:59 AM
Another theory - Could it be that Bird was planning to come back but Simon decided he wanted to bring Walsh back on board for some reason and Bird said he couldn't work with him again?

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 08:00 AM
So, Dan Dakich's source was correct. And Peter Vecsey was correct as far back as February? Several others had it since too.

I did change the thread title as it doesn't seem to be a question anymore

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 08:02 AM
Another theory - Could it be that Bird was planning to come back but Simon decided he wanted to bring Walsh back on board for some reason and Bird said he couldn't work with him again?

I suppose that is possible, but I highly doubt it. We'll never know for sure.

indygeezer
06-26-2012, 08:04 AM
Goodbye Lance?

wintermute
06-26-2012, 08:10 AM
Wow. All through the year I was expecting Bird to retire, because of his comments last year, but I thought he'd change his mind and decided to return after his news conference. This development is surprising to say the least.

Like others, I think there's more to the story which we haven't heard yet. Also, I find it a bit surprising that our management team might end up being Walsh and Pritchard, when Pritchard (Bird's guy) is slated to replace Morway (Walsh's guy). About the only reasonable explanation that I can come up with is that Bird told Simon that he wanted Pritchard to succeed him, but that Simon was hesitant to turn the team fully over to Pritchard. Walsh's return to oversee Pritchard might be the compromise solution.

To TheDon: For myself, I do recognize Walsh's competence and past contributions to the franchise, and in a vacuum (e.g. both Bird and Pritchard leaving), then Simon turning to what he obviously considers a safe pair of hands (Walsh) would be entirely reasonable. Now though... it seems like 2-headed monster part 2 is being set up. Especially since Pritchard doesn't appear to be Walsh's hire. I hope it works out and it truly becomes a case of "2 heads is better than one". But the aphorism that actually comes to mind is "too many cooks spoil the broth". That' my fear anyway.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 08:10 AM
Goodbye Lance?
And Hans hopefully. Don't let the door hit ya...

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 08:11 AM
And Peter Vecsey was correct as far back as February?
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I still think Vecsey was reporting out his behind.

Sollozzo
06-26-2012, 08:11 AM
I just don't understand. How does Larry go from the press conference and this picture of him working with prospects a few days ago...

http://instagr.am/p/MLvgGdGYex/

now he is just "leaving?"

Doesn't sound right to me. If Bird doesn't stay president I would think he would still be working with the team somehow. Why be involved and then leave two days before the draft?


Yeah, we go from Bird at the end of May saying that he would "do it (return to the team) today if Herbie was here" and working with draft prospects as your pictures show to all of the sudden leaving on June 26? That makes no sense whatsoever. Something had to happen.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2012/05/larry_bird_says_he_wants_to_re.html

Sure, it could be his health. But at the end of May he was saying he wanted to come back and Bird is a man of very few words, so him being open and saying that clearly meant he wanted to come back. At the end of May, you would think that he would have clearly evaluated his health situation. Sure something unexpected could have happened, but you would think we would hear about it because health reasons would be the least controversial excuse.

What a horrible way to start the off-season if all of this stuff is indeed true. Bird gone and Walsh back is completely sickening and is a total buzz kill. I always wanted Bird to say, but I could have lived with it had he left with someone like Pritchard taking over. But going back to Walsh is a giant step backward for this franchise.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 08:24 AM
I just don't understand. How does Larry go from the press conference and this picture of him working with prospects a few days ago...

http://instagr.am/p/MLvgGdGYex/

now he is just "leaving?"

Doesn't sound right to me. If Bird doesn't stay president I would think he would still be working with the team somehow. Why be involved and then leave two days before the draft?


This whole situation has had a smell for weeks. For 3 weeks, Bird and Simon were to have had a meeting that never transpired. It was constantly re-scheduled for the the coming next week. I have mentioned I couldn't understand not having the meeting b4 the week of the draft. A draft week meeting didn't make sense. Something didn't smell right.

When I heard Walsh was attending workouts, voiced my displeasure. Now, it's obvious why he was there. There was reason why the Exec of the Year met with the Magic's ownership, and it wasn't b/c Bird wanted a "free lunch." Sure, it can be played that it's Bird's health is the reason for his departure, but I find it odd Walsh had numerous health issues in NY and kept his job. To me this is an ownership and Bird not seeing eye to eye going forward situation, and the easing out of Bird with Simon not looking like the bad guy. Sort of like Walsh bringing in Bird to fire Zeke, b/c he couldn't or wouldn't. Bird comes the bad guy and Walsh's hands are clean. Terrible timing and one that absolutely makes me very upset.

Mr. Bird, I've not been your biggest fan of some of your decisions, BUT I do appreciate your work and effort you gave to the Pacers. I want to THANK YOU for turning around a franchise someone left you in shambles. Thank you again Larry and my best wishes for you in the future....... Justin

Sollozzo
06-26-2012, 08:33 AM
This whole situation has had a smell for weeks. For 3 weeks, Bird and Simon were to have had a meeting that never transpired. It was constantly re-scheduled for the the coming next week. I have mentioned I couldn't understand not having the meeting b4 the week of the draft. A draft week meeting didn't make sense. Something didn't smell right.




Yeah, that never made sense to me either. Bird saying "I'd do it today if Herbie was here" made me raise my eyebrows a bit. Well where the heck was Herbie? How hard is it for the two of them to drive from their Indianapolis area homes down to the Fieldhouse at the same time and have a meeting?

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 08:33 AM
Goodbye Lance?

I believe that's a given as Walsh drafted Rautins and Fields right prior to Bird drafting Stephenson. With Born Ready the best player supposedly ever coming out of NYC you know Walsh had to have seen and had info on Stephenson. Walsh passed on all of Born Ready's great potential. Yep, color Stephenson gone. Maybe Hansbrough too.

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 08:34 AM
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I still think Vecsey was reporting out his behind.

OK, but either you give him credit when he is right and blame when he is wrong, or you don't put any credence in what he says at all. But you cannot (or should not) blame him when he is wrong, but not credit him when he is right.

Psyren
06-26-2012, 08:36 AM
Wow.

Im literally not excited for the draft or offseason anymore.

What a downright sickening way to start the offseason. Just an absolute step back for this franchise.

Wow is all I can say

speakout4
06-26-2012, 08:45 AM
I am sincerely sorry to see Larry go but a guy who keeps telling his boss that he won't return unless this or that happens and says it publicly is certainly going to lose his boss' support eventually. I hope Donnie is just interim for a year or so.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 08:46 AM
Yeah, that never made sense to me either. Bird saying "I'd do it today if Herbie was here" made me raise my eyebrows a bit. Well where the heck was Herbie? How hard is it for the two of them to drive from their Indianapolis area homes down to the Fieldhouse at the same time and have a meeting?



Nor does it make sense bringing back a player for a workout Bird missed either. What kind of a message does this send to possible draftees and their agents??

No ifs, ands, nor buts this is just p*** poor timing for this to happen. What message is ownership sending to the fans?

Steagles
06-26-2012, 08:47 AM
I just got sick. Uh oh.


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 08:53 AM
Well, ****, I was not expecting this to be the way I started my morning. I was positive about the Walsh signing last night, but now after this, I am not.

Kegboy
06-26-2012, 08:54 AM
:lurk2:
:drama:

billbradley
06-26-2012, 08:54 AM
Seriously, this is ridiculous.

Why are we talking about this two days before the draft?

Bird builds the Pacers back to a respectable club. And now the Pacers FO is a mess two days before the draft?

Makes me sick.

Shade
06-26-2012, 08:56 AM
Suddenly, I'm a lot less optimistic about this offseason.

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 08:58 AM
I guess the positive spin on this is that if you had told everyone on PD three years ago that Pritchard would be our GM there would have been parades in the streets.

Ace E.Anderson
06-26-2012, 08:59 AM
Wow.

Im literally not excited for the draft or offseason anymore.

What a downright sickening way to start the offseason. Just an absolute step back for this franchise.

Wow is all I can say

I think it's a LITTLE early to say that just yet. I, like everyone else, am sad to see Bird leave. I'm also a tad apprehensive to see Walsh come back. BUT we do have Pritchard who is known to make a little magic. Also, when Bird was here I was scared to death that we would "play it safe" in the draft and go for someone like Draymond Green (which has been highly speculated)

In the end, I think we have to wait and see what types of moves Pritchard and Walsh make to fill out the roster before we make any assumptions.

I will agree though, this is a pretty big loss for sure.

fwpacerfan
06-26-2012, 08:59 AM
Nor does it make sense bringing back a player for a workout Bird missed either. What kind of a message does this send to possible draftees and their agents??

No ifs, ands, nor buts this is just p*** poor timing for this to happen. What message is ownership sending to the fans?

The message I'm getting from ownership is that they aren't going to spend the money necessary to compete for a championship. Simon thinks fans will start to show up as long as this team is a 3/4 seed in the playoffs.

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 09:02 AM
Seriously, this is ridiculous.

Why are we talking about this two days before the draft?

Bird builds the Pacers back to a respectable club. And now the Pacers FO is a mess two days before the draft?

Makes me sick.

I suspect Bird will stay on for the draft and be heavily involved.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 09:03 AM
I guess the positive spin on this is that if you had told everyone on PD three years ago that Pritchard would be our GM there would have been parades in the streets.
Until Pritchard's fired and Morway's back next week.

And I know that's not green.

Kegboy
06-26-2012, 09:03 AM
The message I'm getting from ownership is that they aren't going to spend the money necessary to compete for a championship.

History would say you're getting the wrong message then. Donnie Walsh and Kevin Pritchard are the absolute last people you want running a franchise that refuses to spend money. You can debate if they'll spend the money wisely, but neither is known for being the least bit frugal.

Ransom
06-26-2012, 09:04 AM
I'm willing to bet a sizable amount this has something to do with health issues for Bird.

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 09:04 AM
History would say you're getting the wrong message then. Donnie Walsh and Kevin Pritchard are the absolute last people you want running a franchise that refuses to spend money. You can debate if they'll spend the money wisely, but neither is known for being the least bit frugal.

Agreed, I wouldn't be shocked to see us buy a late first round pick on Thursday after this even.

graphic-er
06-26-2012, 09:05 AM
Again, like others have said....we obviously have an ownership problem. Afraid to spend money. Goes back to his security blanket of 23 years. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Bird never invited Donnie to the work outs last week and he was there on behalf of Simon. Thus Bird's departure.

Since86
06-26-2012, 09:07 AM
OK, but either you give him credit when he is right and blame when he is wrong, or you don't put any credence in what he says at all. But you cannot (or should not) blame him when he is wrong, but not credit him when he is right.

So you think Bird knew he was gonna leave in Feb?

graphic-er
06-26-2012, 09:07 AM
I'm willing to bet a sizable amount this has something to do with health issues for Bird.

I don't see how, even with Bird having back surgery next month. He doesn't have to be 100% to make decisions that Pritchard brings to him.

Speed
06-26-2012, 09:07 AM
The message I'm getting from ownership is that they aren't going to spend the money necessary to compete for a championship. Simon thinks fans will start to show up as long as this team is a 3/4 seed in the playoffs.

I mean that is what Larry eluded to as one of his criteria, but historically Simon has always been willing to spend up to the luxury tax, which I'm not sure you can ask anything more than that. The restricted Free Agent thing could be a tough pill for a GM to swallow, to be handcuffed in that way. I do agree that, in general, you overpay in those situations.

Or it could just be his back is really hurting right now.

Its just a really odd set of events surround Larry the last few months, Vescey said he's gone, Bird sounds like he's staying (basically says if things go well in conversation Simon he will), Bird 'interviews' with Orlando, Bird fires Morway, Bird promotes Pritchard, DW comes on 5 days before the draft, Bird quits 3 days before the draft.

Just alot of weird mixed messages going on. Hopefully when the 26 pick comes Thursday they get their pick to the podium before time runs out.....

Maybe Larry was leaving all this time and Simon was just trying to convince him to stay with a face to face meeting, hence this week after week face to face stuff.... I'm really just throwing darts now.

Since86
06-26-2012, 09:08 AM
Bird definitely has stamped his style of doing business. Win awards and retire.

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 09:12 AM
So you think Bird knew he was gonna leave in Feb?

Probably was telling people that he was leaving. But also kept the possibility of returning open.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 09:12 AM
The timing of this mess is just absolutely bizarre. There is much more behind this than all of a sudden Bird's health says Larry you have to leave today... 2 days b4 the draft.

I ain't buy'n it folks!

There has to have been a breakdown between Herb and Bird. No other reason at this crucial point prior to the draft. Herb then brings in his security blanket Walsh.

RamBo_Lamar
06-26-2012, 09:12 AM
Mr. Bird, thank you for the good years you have given to the Pacers,
and your part in returning the franchise to respectability.

Enjoy your retirement.

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 09:13 AM
Again, like others have said....we obviously have an ownership problem. Afraid to spend money. Goes back to his security blanket of 23 years. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Bird never invited Donnie to the work outs last week and he was there on behalf of Simon. Thus Bird's departure.

How does this prove that Simon doesn't want to spend money?

fwpacerfan
06-26-2012, 09:13 AM
History would say you're getting the wrong message then. Donnie Walsh and Kevin Pritchard are the absolute last people you want running a franchise that refuses to spend money. You can debate if they'll spend the money wisely, but neither is known for being the least bit frugal.

I guess I mean spend money in the way Bird (and many on here) think it needs to be spent - RFA's for starters.

There is definitely something fishy going on. Bird did an about face in a very short period of time. Maybe he's buying part of the team...

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 09:18 AM
I suspect Bird will stay on for the draft and be heavily involved.


The $64,000 question is "who will have the say in who is drafted?"

Surely not by committee.

xBulletproof
06-26-2012, 09:20 AM
I had a lot of faith in Bird. I have some faith in Pritchard, and some in Walsh. This isn't going from Jerry West to Isaiah Thomas or something.

This isn't disastrous but I feel like its a step down.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 09:21 AM
If Bird had come out at his year end presser and said he was done, that Pritchard was going to be GM and Donnie was the new Prez Of Ops, I'd have been pretty cool with that. Nervous, but those're clearly capable hands. There's a LOT of fanbases that would kill for a Pritchard/Walsh FO.

It's just the timing that has me so anxious and frustrated.

Kegboy
06-26-2012, 09:22 AM
I guess I mean spend money in the way Bird (and many on here) think it needs to be spent - RFA's for starters.

I think Herb's problem with Restricted Free Agency is purely philosophical. It's not an issue of spending money, it's tying up money on a low chance of return when sure things pass you by. Also, if you believe the press clippings, Herb has always fashioned himself as the Gentleman Owner, and driving up the price of other teams' assets just isn't very neighborly.

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 09:22 AM
The $64,000 question is "who will have the say in who is drafted?"

Surely not by committee.


My guess and it is purely a guess is Bird will have final say. He's made it quite clear that he's had final say ever since Walsh officially left. So I would expect Bird to have final say in this draft and then he'd leave the franchise.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 09:26 AM
I think not bidding on RFAs, philosophically, is pretty much correct for a franchise like ours. To win a RFA away from another team you clearly have to overpay. A team's not going to decline to match a market value deal.

If that whole thing's even true.

billbradley
06-26-2012, 09:28 AM
My guess and it is purely a guess is Bird will have final say. He's made it quite clear that he's had final say ever since Walsh officially left. So I would expect Bird to have final say in this draft and then he'd leave the franchise.

How does that work? If the new person in charge is in the room and wants somebody else, why would they be stuck with Bird's guy?

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 09:29 AM
I don't see how, even with Bird having back surgery next month. He doesn't have to be 100% to make decisions that Pritchard brings to him.


You'd think so. Walsh still made decisions with his health issues in NY.

PaceBalls
06-26-2012, 09:31 AM
With that story broke about how Bird and Morway no longer have a relationship and the constant rescheduling of Larry's meeting with the Simons, I figured this would happen. News that Donnie would be back made it even more obvious.

I'm disappointed that Bird won't be here, but... if he is such a hardass to work with, maybe it's for the best? You want your guys in the front office to all be on the same team.

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 09:36 AM
How does that work? If the new person in charge is in the room and wants somebody else, why would they be stuck with Bird's guy?


if the boss (owner Simon) says Bird is in charge then he's in charge. My point is Bird is still in charge through the draft. That has been done many times before in the NBA where the exiting GM picks the draft and then leaves. Nothing unusual here - assuming that is the case. My point isn't that I know Bird is still in charge, but simply that it would not be unusual if he is in charge with the understanding the draft is his last duty.

Derek2k3
06-26-2012, 09:37 AM
I trust that the franchise knows what they're doing. I truly believe they have something worked out, and rumors that I've heard are that the back is extremely painful, something Larry feels gets in the way of being 100%.

I'm not saying there isn't something else going on, just that I don't think this was as sudden as it feels. Bird is a poker player for sure, never lets anyone see him sweat. So, even if he thought he was leaving back in May, I doubt he would have been all down and depressed in the presser.

Regarding Donnie, we don't even know what his role is. I personally love the guy, he is a "Pacer" in my mind. I'm glad he's back, I hope he finishes his career here, and again I trust that there is a plan in place (Likely to give Pritch the most sway/power, use Donnie as a consultant.) I for one think Donnie has a lot to offer in terms of experience, wisdom, and advice.

Larry, thanks. You've been a faithful leader of Pacer Nation for several seasons and in different capacities. The work you've done, though often criticized, has largely been incredible. Please, please stick around!

PR07
06-26-2012, 09:38 AM
Larry Legend once again leaves the game on top.

I can't fault the guy if his health issues are that concerning, but it seems like he did a complete 180 from where he was just a few weeks ago. I have confidence in Pritchard, but we'll just have to see what happens.

Also, how does this explain his interview with Orlando just a week ago?

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 09:44 AM
My guess and it is purely a guess is Bird will have final say. He's made it quite clear that he's had final say ever since Walsh officially left. So I would expect Bird to have final say in this draft and then he'd leave the franchise.


I hear ya, but Bird's leaving and Herb's man is back in the fold. Why would Herb want Bird making the decision for others who are there and will be running the Pacers for the future? I don't think Bird will be the final decision maker. To me it stands to reason someone else will. Either Walsh or Pritchard, but which one?

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 09:46 AM
Also, how does this explain his interview with Orlando just a week ago?


He wants to get back to Florida. For some the winters in Indiana are killers and if you have health problems, back problems the cold weather can be a huge problem.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 09:46 AM
So all 3, KP, Bird, and Walsh will be at the Draft Party I assume? I may just have to go to try and read their body language.

Tom White
06-26-2012, 09:47 AM
Let's see if we can make some sense out of all this, without calling anyone a demon.

This is just a guess, but it makes sense to me.

After the season ends, Bird sounds like a guy who is ready to give it his all and continue to rebuild this team to lofty standards.

Some time passes, Bird's back starts to act up even more, and his doctor tells him "Larry, its time to get this taken care of, but it will require you take some time off for total rest and rehab.". In the meantime Bird calls Simon and says "We better put off this meeting, I've just been thrown a medical curve ball.".

After careful consideration, it is decided that he will have the surgery, and very reluctantly take a year off to (hopefully) fully recuperate. Now, the work still needs to be done, but Larry has been told by his doctor that he needs FULL REST AND REHAB for a lengthy time to recover.

Well, what to do?

Consider this as well. Perhaps part of the "negotiation" to be done between Simon and Bird had to do with whether Simon would allow Bird to take a year off from his duties (for the surgery and recuperation time), and then allow him to return when he healed. Part of this might have been Simon's concern with who would run the operation in Bird's absence.

Walsh is available. Bird and Simon are both very familiar with him, and there is a mutual trust and respect between the three. A plus is, if Larry is ready to return to work in a year, Walsh probably doesn't want to take on a heavy lifting role for a long time period to begin with.

So, the deal is done. Larry gets his surgery and time to heal. Walsh gets to "come back home" to help further a team he cares dearly about, and Simon gets to retain people he trusts in the front office throughout it all.

Like I say, I'm just guessing at all this. But it seems more likely than some of the behind the back conspiracy theories being pitched around.

Yeah, drama is more interesting, but sometimes the truth can be simple.

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 09:47 AM
The timing of this mess is just absolutely bizarre. There is much more behind this than all of a sudden Bird's health says Larry you have to leave today... 2 days b4 the draft.

I ain't buy'n it folks!

There has to have been a breakdown between Herb and Bird. No other reason at this crucial point prior to the draft. Herb then brings in his security blanket Walsh.

Simon cheap doesn't wanna spend to make us real contenders. Sad day

PR07
06-26-2012, 09:50 AM
He wants to get back to Florida. For some the winters in Indiana are killers and if you have health problems, back problems the cold weather can be a huge problem.

True, I made a point about this in another thread about the warm weather and a balky back. However, the pain must have been getting worse because now Bird is planning on sitting out the year entirely. Not with Orlando, not with Indiana, not with anyone.

fwpacerfan
06-26-2012, 09:51 AM
Let's see if we can make some sense out of all this, without calling anyone a demon.

This is just a guess, but it makes sense to me.

After the season ends, Bird sounds like a guy who is ready to give it his all and continue to rebuild this team to lofty standards.

Some time passes, Bird's back starts to act up even more, and his doctor tells him "Larry, its time to get this taken care of, but it will require you take some time off for total rest and rehab.". In the meantime Bird calls Simon and says "We better put off this meeting, I've just been thrown a medical curve ball.".

After careful consideration, it is decided that he will have the surgery, and very reluctantly take a year off to (hopefully) fully recuperate. Now, the work still needs to be done, but Larry has been told by his doctor that he needs FULL REST AND REHAB for a lengthy time to recover.

Well, what to do?

Walsh is available. Bird and Simon are both very familiar with him, and there is a mutual trust and respect between the three. A plus is, if Larry is ready to return to work in a year, Walsh probably doesn't want to take on a heavy lifting role for a long time period to begin with.

So, the deal is done. Larry gets his surgery and time to heal. Walsh gets to "come back home" to help further a team he cares dearly about, and Simon gets to retain people he trusts in the front office throughout it all.

Like I say, I'm just guessing at all this. But it seems more likely than some of the behind the back conspiracy theories being pitched around.

Yeah, drama is more interesting, but sometimes the truth can be simple.

Best theory I've seen - makes sense!

Derek2k3
06-26-2012, 09:51 AM
Here is the note on ESPN Insider:

A source tells The Indianapolis Star that Larry Bird will not return as the president of the Indiana Pacers.

According to the newspaper, Bird will meet with owner Herb Simon on Tuesday to complete his departure.

There is a chance Donnie Walsh could return to the Pacers and take Bird's position as president of the team.

Bird's retirement could also mean Kevin Pritchard will not become the general manager of the team. :rolleyes:

-- Nick Borges

Brinocerous
06-26-2012, 09:52 AM
Not a lot that I've seen and read this morning has done much to inspire confidence. I'm not too enthused to see Bird is leaving and Walsh is back...especially considering that Larry has publicly stated that he wanted to return if ownership was willing to spend what it takes to compete. After seeing a pretty non-committal and fairly subdued Roy Hibbert on Fox 59 a few minutes ago, I can't help but wonder if the decision has been made from higher up that we will not be resigning him. I hope I'm wrong on that.

billbradley
06-26-2012, 09:53 AM
He wants to get back to Florida. For some the winters in Indiana are killers and if you have health problems, back problems the cold weather can be a huge problem.

I thought Bird just always wanted to win one for Indiana.

Maybe the older guys know, but I remember seeing video of Bird crying promising he would someday bring one back to Indiana after he lost to Magic in NCAA national championship.

That always made be comfortable with Bird being in charge.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 09:53 AM
Suppose it is true that there's nothing official with Pritchard, we're all big time jumping the gun on that, all the reports said that would happen after the Bird/Simon meeting.

So maybe if KP does still get the GM role, with Donnie as Pres, it lend credence to Larry just taking a year off? Or it just means we're in turmoil and I go on a bender.

Tom White
06-26-2012, 09:56 AM
Suppose it is true that there's nothing official with Pritchard, we're all big time jumping the gun on that, all the reports said that would happen after the Bird/Simon meeting.

So maybe if KP does still get the GM role, with Donnie as Pres, it lend credence to Larry just taking a year off? Or it just means we're in turmoil and I go on a bender.

Or perhaps it all works out in the end, and you still get to go on a bender to celebrate?

The Sleeze
06-26-2012, 09:56 AM
Here is the note on ESPN Insider:

A source tells The Indianapolis Star that Larry Bird will not return as the president of the Indiana Pacers.

According to the newspaper, Bird will meet with owner Herb Simon on Tuesday to complete his departure.

There is a chance Donnie Walsh could return to the Pacers and take Bird's position as president of the team.

Bird's retirement could also mean Kevin Pritchard will not become the general manager of the team. :rolleyes:

-- Nick Borges

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/VespertineIconoclast/WTF.gif

PR07
06-26-2012, 09:56 AM
I will say that this is very odd timing for all of this. Who does our drafting?

PR07
06-26-2012, 09:57 AM
So maybe if KP does still get the GM role, with Donnie as Pres, it lend credence to Larry just taking a year off? Or it just means we're in turmoil and I go on a bender.

With Walsh at the helm, maybe we end up with another Bender :-p

PacersHomer
06-26-2012, 09:59 AM
This is the worst possible thing if Pritchard isn't President or GM. Horrible step-back for the franchise with Donnie Walsh. I feel sick.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 10:00 AM
Not a lot that I've seen and read this morning has done much to inspire confidence. I'm not too enthused to see Bird is leaving and Walsh is back...especially considering that Larry has publicly stated that he wanted to return if ownership was willing to spend what it takes to compete. After seeing a pretty non-committal and fairly subdued Roy Hibbert on Fox 59 a few minutes ago, I can't help but wonder if the decision has been made from higher up that we will not be resigning him. I hope I'm wrong on that.


Or Hibbert is upset that Bird is leaving. He's never had any other GM, and Bird drafted him.

PacerGuy
06-26-2012, 10:01 AM
I think Herb's problem with Restricted Free Agency is purely philosophical. It's not an issue of spending money, it's tying up money on a low chance of return when sure things pass you by. Also, if you believe the press clippings, Herb has always fashioned himself as the Gentleman Owner, and driving up the price of other teams' assets just isn't very neighborly.

How "neighborly" will he feel when one of his "neighbor" offers Roy the max contract?

If Herb loses/ lost Larry over RFA's (EJ,Mayo) , then our issues atr at the very top.
If Donnie played any role besides being a fill in after Larry hinted he was out, then our problem is at the top.
The Simon's have always been the solution, not the problem, so I am really confused.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 10:02 AM
With Walsh at the helm, maybe we end up with another Bender :-p

you shut your mouth

Brinocerous
06-26-2012, 10:04 AM
Or Hibbert is upset that Bird is leaving. He's never had any other GM, and Bird drafted him.

Man, I hope you're right.

billbradley
06-26-2012, 10:04 AM
This is really going to help us land free agents.

What a ******* mess.

PR07
06-26-2012, 10:05 AM
Or Hibbert is upset that Bird is leaving. He's never had any other GM, and Bird drafted him.

Roy's probably just playing his poker face right now. He's not the first one. Reggie and Jermaine O'Neal both visited other teams before ultimately re-signing with the Pacers.

PacerGuy
06-26-2012, 10:07 AM
Let's see if we can make some sense out of all this, without calling anyone a demon.

This is just a guess, but it makes sense to me.

After the season ends, Bird sounds like a guy who is ready to give it his all and continue to rebuild this team to lofty standards.

Some time passes, Bird's back starts to act up even more, and his doctor tells him "Larry, its time to get this taken care of, but it will require you take some time off for total rest and rehab.". In the meantime Bird calls Simon and says "We better put off this meeting, I've just been thrown a medical curve ball.".

After careful consideration, it is decided that he will have the surgery, and very reluctantly take a year off to (hopefully) fully recuperate. Now, the work still needs to be done, but Larry has been told by his doctor that he needs FULL REST AND REHAB for a lengthy time to recover.

Well, what to do?

Consider this as well. Perhaps part of the "negotiation" to be done between Simon and Bird had to do with whether Simon would allow Bird to take a year off from his duties (for the surgery and recuperation time), and then allow him to return when he healed. Part of this might have been Simon's concern with who would run the operation in Bird's absence.

Walsh is available. Bird and Simon are both very familiar with him, and there is a mutual trust and respect between the three. A plus is, if Larry is ready to return to work in a year, Walsh probably doesn't want to take on a heavy lifting role for a long time period to begin with.

So, the deal is done. Larry gets his surgery and time to heal. Walsh gets to "come back home" to help further a team he cares dearly about, and Simon gets to retain people he trusts in the front office throughout it all.

Like I say, I'm just guessing at all this. But it seems more likely than some of the behind the back conspiracy theories being pitched around.

Yeah, drama is more interesting, but sometimes the truth can be simple.

I was thinking something like this, but you said it better.
This would make reports (by all) both right & wrong. I could see this. I hope this. Unfortunately I doubt it. I rarely get what I want...

Roaming Gnome
06-26-2012, 10:12 AM
Here is the note on ESPN Insider:

A source tells The Indianapolis Star that Larry Bird will not return as the president of the Indiana Pacers.

According to the newspaper, Bird will meet with owner Herb Simon on Tuesday to complete his departure.

There is a chance Donnie Walsh could return to the Pacers and take Bird's position as president of the team.
:clintshudder:


Bird's retirement could also mean Kevin Pritchard will not become the general manager of the team. :rolleyes:

-- Nick Borges
:jumpout:

Speed
06-26-2012, 10:16 AM
Um, what the hell is going on.... the draft is in two days and we don't know who steering the ship? Craziness!

I'm guessing this is all settled, but its just not out there yet, Gawd I hope so.

Sparhawk
06-26-2012, 10:25 AM
Def something going on. It's not just Bird saying he wants to retire. You don't just do all this days before the draft.

It really sucks, cause Bird, while not a big gambler, made very smart decisions for this franchise.

Worst case scenario: Walsh returns as GM/Pres. Pritchard is let go, Bird retires. Hibbert isn't matched. Hill wants too much and goes elsewhere. Pacers draft a foreign player at 26 who will never come over.


Now if all that happens this offseason, I'll lose complete faith in the franchise, until then, I'll continue hoping for the best.

Hicks
06-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Well, some of you should be pretty ****ing happy. I eagerly await seeing who you dissect next. My money is on Pritchard.

Hicks
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
I'm willing to bet a sizable amount this has something to do with health issues for Bird.

What, did he fall down a flight of stairs 24 hours ago, then?

Pacerized
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
It's a sad day to be a Pacers fan. We really needed Larry to at least finish free agency this summer and any final trades before the deadline to complete this team. At least Pritchard is aggressive, I just hope he doesn't throw away what Larry took so long to build.

HC
06-26-2012, 10:34 AM
I think Herb's problem with Restricted Free Agency is purely philosophical. It's not an issue of spending money, it's tying up money on a low chance of return when sure things pass you by. Also, if you believe the press clippings, Herb has always fashioned himself as the Gentleman Owner, and driving up the price of other teams' assets just isn't very neighborly.

Pretty irrelevant when every other franchise in the league is doing it. This is a business afterall, and Simon is a business man.

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 10:35 AM
Wells is on the fan right now

billbradley
06-26-2012, 10:36 AM
Here is the note on ESPN Insider:

A source tells The Indianapolis Star that Larry Bird will not return as the president of the Indiana Pacers.

According to the newspaper, Bird will meet with owner Herb Simon on Tuesday to complete his departure.

There is a chance Donnie Walsh could return to the Pacers and take Bird's position as president of the team.

Bird's retirement could also mean Kevin Pritchard will not become the general manager of the team. :rolleyes:

-- Nick Borges

Was this a joke?


A source tells The Indianapolis Star that Larry Bird will not return as the president of the Indiana Pacers.

According to the newspaper, Bird will meet with owner Herb Simon on Tuesday to complete his departure.

There is a chance Donnie Walsh could return to the Pacers and take Bird's position as president of the team.

Kevin Pritchard is expected to become the new general manager of the team.

-- Nick Borges

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

Slick Pinkham
06-26-2012, 10:36 AM
I wonder if we will find out whether Donnie is back because Larry was stepping aside, or Larry is stepping aside because Donnie is back?

I would like to put a very positive spin on this, such as Tom White's analysis and the possibility that this is a one year sabbatical for Larry. But why would he not finish the draft and the major free agent issues, then step down a month from now? The timing is so incredibly bizarre, 2 days before the drat and 5 days before free agency. That does not make such rosy thoughts linger in my head for very long.

Speed
06-26-2012, 10:36 AM
Wells is on the fan right now

Hook us up, pacer4ever!!!

HC
06-26-2012, 10:36 AM
Nothing personal against Walsh really, but his time has come and gone. I would prefer him to not be anywhere near BLF, unless he is a spectator.

PacerPenguins
06-26-2012, 10:41 AM
all I have to say is.... THANKS LARRY!

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 10:41 AM
says herb and Bird talked daily said Simon would spend money. But Larry wanted to go for it all and wanted to get best players and Wells not sure if Herb would spend when times comes to it would he pay the LT to get the team to a championship level and add elite players.


Wells said more to it than health wanted to really win.


Says Larry will stay on for the draft (duh lol)


Said Donnie Kevin and Bird probably wouldn't of worked.


said Donnie is gonna be running the show ****!!!


said KP will be GM **** I wanted KP as the decision maker.


Wells said he is shocked that Bird left though he would stay to see the team win.

Evan_The_Dude
06-26-2012, 10:41 AM
I'm not glad to see Bird go, but I think this is sure to mean we won't have a boring summer on PD!

Kegboy
06-26-2012, 10:43 AM
Pretty irrelevant when every other franchise in the league is doing it.

Are they really, though? Yes, you'll get teams taking swings (and missing) on the occasional RFA, but I don't think it's as prevalent as popular opinion believes.

Sparhawk
06-26-2012, 10:43 AM
Pretty irrelevant when every other franchise in the league is doing it. This is a business afterall, and Simon is a business man.

Although a gentleman's rule would be nice. I don't bid on your RFA, don't bid on ours.

HC
06-26-2012, 10:45 AM
Are they really, though? Yes, you'll get teams taking swings (and missing) on the occasional RFA, but I don't think it's as prevalent as popular opinion believes.

I've never heard of a team not going after a guy that they want simply because he was an RFA. Furthermore, you aren't gonna convince me that Simon has come across his massive collection of assets by being "neighborly."

*astrisk*
06-26-2012, 10:45 AM
No chance this is health related... B.S. It will be portrayed as that, but NO WAY is it the truth...

Obviously, Bird didn't get the confidence going forward from Simon he was hoping for...

Expect the Status Quo from this point...

Slick Pinkham
06-26-2012, 10:48 AM
Do I have this right,

Bird wanted to spend whatever it takes to win, right now, and Simon said hold on there, we can't spend that much?

groan.

imawhat
06-26-2012, 10:49 AM
I don't know which is worse, Bird leaving or Walsh returning. Either way, I'm considerably less optimistic about our future now. I thought Donnie did a terrible job in NY. Signing Stoudemire to a max deal has crippled the franchise and their drafting has been terrible (outside of Landry Fields).

graphic-er
06-26-2012, 10:49 AM
This team just fell off a cliff 2 days before the draft. WTF.

PacerPenguins
06-26-2012, 10:50 AM
I don't know which is worse, Bird leaving or Walsh returning. Either way, I'm considerably less optimistic about our future now. I thought Donnie did a terrible job in NY. Signing Stoudemire to a max deal has crippled the franchise and their drafting has been terrible (outside of Landry Fields).

Gallinari is pretty damn good

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 10:51 AM
Bird wanted a championship Simon just wants to break even and fine contending for 5th in the east every year putting a decent product on the floor.

billbradley
06-26-2012, 10:52 AM
Do I have this right,

Bird wanted to spend whatever it takes to win, right now, and Simon said hold on there, we can't spend that much?

groan.

Everyone on the fan is making it sound like Simon is more than willing to spend.

PacerPenguins
06-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Im so CONFUSED

Trophy
06-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Nothing personal against Walsh really, but his time has come and gone. I would prefer him to not be anywhere near BLF, unless he is a spectator.

I'm actually surprised Walsh has any interest in working for any team to be honest. He's 71 and has had health concerns in recent years.

PR07
06-26-2012, 10:54 AM
So a combination of health and our owner's frugality did Larry Legend in?

This was really supposed to be an offseason where the team took another half-step forward, not a half-step back.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 10:54 AM
Kravitz: A Different Bird Walks Away, Leaving Successor On Verge Of Something Big
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120626/SPORTS15/120626013


Larry Bird is different.Who takes a team to the NBA Finals, wins Coach of the Year, and then walks away?
Bird does.

Who spends years patiently, painfully rebuilding a franchise, gets his team back to the playoffs and the doorstep of something special, wins Executive of the Year, then walks away again?

Bird does.

It’s sad and unfortunate, in a way, because Bird did all the heavy lifting necessary to lift the post-Brawl Pacers out of the financial and competitive doldrums, brought them to a point where they look like a 50-win team for years to come.

It’s also for the best.

As Reggie Miller once said when he decided to remain in retirement rather than join the Boston Celtics for a run at a ring, "If you’re not all in, you’re out."

Bird came to the decision he could no longer be all in.

Why did he make this call?

He’s told people it has nothing to do with disagreements with owner Herb Simon, either about front-office personnel or payroll. Fact is, Bird got what he wanted: David Morway got punted and Kevin Pritchard will take over Bird’s spot as the general manager.

So why’s he walking?

Over the past year, we had a few conversations about what he might do. One day, he would sound like he was staying. Another day, he would sound like a goner. But the one thing he would always bring up was the pain he was feeling in his eternally balky back, the fact it was so difficult to sit for hours on end and watch tape or sit in a gym and watch prospects.

Unless there’s a backstory with which we’re completely unfamiliar, this sounds like a health, or quality-of-life issue, at its core.

And it’s a shame, because Bird --- yes, along with Morway --- brought this team back to life and made pro basketball relevant again in Indianapolis.

When Bird took over, this was a team even the locals disliked. Out went a bunch of troubled souls. In came a bunch of nicer guys who, well, couldn’t play.

But it was part of the process. And during that process, Bird was excruciatingly patient about refusing to take on large salaries for a quick fix. The team floundered, but there was a plan. He kept saying it and Morway kept saying it: We have a plan.

And we finally saw the fruits of that plan, first late last season after Frank Vogel took over and freed his young players to play their best, then again this season when the Pacers had the fifth-best record in the NBA.

Now, the Pacers are close to doing some significant things, being competitive deep into the playoffs, flush with promising young talent like Paul George, Roy Hibbert and others.

And he’s walking away.

This doesn’t make sense.

But, then, Larry Bird is a different guy.

So now it’s Kevin Pritchard’s turn, and the former Portland Blazers GM gets to run the final few miles of this marathon.

Has anybody ever walked into a better situation?

The talent is here. The cap room is here.

It’s a far sight from the old JailBlazers team Pritchard adopted in 2006, when he took over a bad team with worse actors, a group that couldn’t stay off the police blotter.

But he had several excellent drafts. You can’t blame him for the physical deterioration of Greg Oden; everybody, and we mean everybody, would have taken Oden, presumably the next Bill Russell, with the first pick in the draft. He drafted Brandon Roy, who was a superstar until his health failed. He drafted LaMarcus Aldridge. And he made several other key acquisitions (Nicolas Batum, Rudy Fernandez) along the way, including signing Joel Pryzbilla.

Pacers fans should be ready: Pritchard is super-aggressive. In 2006 and 2007, he made a ridiculous number of draft-day trades that netted several core players. Unlike Bird, who was forced to be patient, Pritchard will be out front and pushing the envelope.

Nobody I’ve spoken to questions Pritchard’s front-office acumen or work ethic. Where Bird hated to spend hours on the phone, Pritchard is a workaholic who used to work most holidays at the Blazers facility. And his background can’t be questioned; he was surrounded at different points of his career by the likes of Gregg Popovich, Larry Brown and San Antonio GM R.C. Buford.

The nagging question that followed Pritchard out of Portland, where he was forced out by owner Paul Allen and his minions, was his personality. He rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. He was viewed as being too brash, too quick to grab the credit when things went well. He also made mistakes, reportedly complaining to people around the league about his relatively paltry salary.

But this is his second time around the league in this capacity.

And as one long-time Pritchard watcher told me, "You’re getting a humbled, improved version of Kevin Pritchard. He’s made some mistakes and I think he’s learned from them. But you can’t question his ability as a GM. Just look at his record."

Bird took the Pacers up the mountain.

Now it’s Pritchard’s job to get them to the peak.My God, the one sentence paragraphs.

imawhat
06-26-2012, 10:57 AM
Gallinari is pretty damn good

Not at #6 or with Jeff Foster's back at age 20. And he doesn't play defense and shoots just a little better than A.J. Price.

billbradley
06-26-2012, 10:57 AM
Bird wanted a championship Simon just wants to break even and fine contending for 5th in the east every year putting a decent product on the floor.

Where are you getting this? Wells, Grady and Kravitz have all said that this isn't a payroll issue. Simon really wants to win.

CJ Jones
06-26-2012, 10:58 AM
Sad day indeed...


I believe that's a given as Walsh drafted Rautins and Fields right prior to Bird drafting Stephenson. With Born Ready the best player supposedly ever coming out of NYC you know Walsh had to have seen and had info on Stephenson. Walsh passed on all of Born Ready's great potential. Yep, color Stephenson gone. Maybe Hansbrough too.

Lance never would have made it in New York. I'm sure Donnie realized that. You could be right, but I hope not. Tyler on the other hand...


Mr. Bird, thank you for the good years you have given to the Pacers,
and your part in returning the franchise to respectability.

Enjoy your retirement.

I'm not sure he's done yet. It wouldn't surprise me to see him back with another team next year :puke:or hopefully like some have speculated, back with us. :pray:

PR07
06-26-2012, 11:00 AM
I'm surprised to see another optimistic Kravitz article, but I guess that's kind of been his theme for the Pacers these days. I have confidence in Pritchard, but even that isn't exactly official yet.

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 11:01 AM
Where are you getting this? Wells, Grady have Kravitz all said that this isn't a payroll issue. Simon really want to win.

did you not hear Wells?? He said health wasnt a issue and also said Bird wanted to go after anyone he wanted. Said he didnt feel Simon would spend like Bird wanted. He felt like Simon wouldnt spend to get the Pacers over the hump for a title.

Wells was pretty clear it wasnt about health and more about not being able to go after who he wanted to win.


What Wells was saying contradicts Kravitz. I tend to believe Wells over Kravitz. I doubt we get the real story Bird isnt gonna call the owner out.

Sparhawk
06-26-2012, 11:01 AM
Ok, Pritchard, it's your turn to shine again.

Trade DC for a pick around the lottery.

Trans Hans to the Cavs for either both 2nds or their late 1st and 1 second. It's already been metioned the Cavs don't want to walk into camp with a bunch of rookies. I think they'd agree to something like this.

Let's make some deals happen and make our bench truly deep.

Trophy
06-26-2012, 11:02 AM
I'm not sure he's done yet. It wouldn't surprise me to see him back with another team next year :puke:or hopefully like some have speculated, back with us. :pray:

I'd be very surprised if Bird went to a different team. It's been either Indiana or bust for him and he'd retire.

Derek2k3
06-26-2012, 11:03 AM
Was this a joke?



http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

WTF.

I swear to god, I did a direct copy/paste. ****ing ESPN.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 11:04 AM
They just posted Bruno's interview with Grady and Joe from today, I'm sure Wells's will be up shortly

http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Episodes.aspx?PID=2160

edit: they just put Wells up

BillS
06-26-2012, 11:05 AM
I think the money issue is that Simon isn't ready to jump straight from cap space to being over the LT all at once, without any kind of guarantee we'd be that much better a team.

We could easily go over the LT with players at the level we have now. If it were me paying the bills, I'd sure want some kind of ability to put on the brakes if it looked like we were heading into being a very expensive perennial 2nd round or ECF team without having any chance to take the next step because of the cap/LT situation.

Roaming Gnome
06-26-2012, 11:06 AM
Normally, at our Star Media distribution center we receive the daily "METRO" paper at 1:45am... The delay was only 30mins today which tells me that you're probably right about The Star wanting this to be broken by the "Print Edition". For late breaking sports news we usually receive papers closer to 3-3:15am or later.

Wells just confirmed this during his interview on Grady/Big Joe. He mentioned that he was worried that during the time that it took for this story to go to print someone like Wojo would swoop in and get the scoop because he is one of the best in the league.
Thanks Mike for giving us "print edition" guys some love! Maybe I can sell some papers here on the west side!

PR07
06-26-2012, 11:07 AM
I wonder if this means Bird was looking to go after Deron Williams or Steve Nash, but never got the green light from Simon :(

billbradley
06-26-2012, 11:07 AM
did you not hear Wells?? He said health wasnt a issue and also said Bird wanted to go after anyone he wanted. Said he didnt feel Simon would spend like Bird wanted. He felt like Simon wouldnt spend to get the Pacers over the hump for a title.

Wells was pretty clear it wasnt about health and more about not being able to go after who he wanted to win.

I'll listen again.

I thought Wells was kind of throwing out possibilities but saying it was more than likely not a situation of Simon not wanting to spend.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 11:07 AM
oh lord, Stephen A Smith's talking about it on ESPN

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 11:10 AM
I am about 3 pages behind on this, so I might be repeating. But for those who are suggestiung the timing of all this is horrible - two days before the draft. I would guess the Pacers didn't want this news to get out now, were probably hoping to keep it quiet until next week. or maybe Friday

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2012, 11:11 AM
I just don't understand. How does Larry go from the press conference and this picture of him working with prospects a few days ago...

http://instagr.am/p/MLvgGdGYex/

now he is just "leaving?"

Doesn't sound right to me. If Bird doesn't stay president I would think he would still be working with the team somehow. Why be involved and then leave two days before the draft?
Isn't it obvious?

PRESS POSTURING TO FORCE DEALS. Sorry, but in the "name that tune" world this song takes about 2 notes. Morway issues press leak, this sudden change to leaving but still working with prospects, no word from Morway at all, Walsh rumor leaks out, Pritchard in a weird limbo...

Negotiations through the press. I'm sure Wells is being told things as though they are sincere, and certainly Bird has come off as fickle on decisions (sometimes Larry Brown-esque even), but this has a strong scent of using the press as leverage.

Either that or some nasty behind the scenes bickering perhaps, or maybe not "nasty" but difficult and confused.

Speed
06-26-2012, 11:13 AM
says herb and Bird talked daily said Simon would spend money. But Larry wanted to go for it all and wanted to get best players and Wells not sure if Herb would spend when times comes to it would he pay the LT to get the team to a championship level and add elite players.


Wells said more to it than health wanted to really win.


Says Larry will stay on for the draft (duh lol)


Said Donnie Kevin and Bird probably wouldn't of worked.


said Donnie is gonna be running the show ****!!!


said KP will be GM **** I wanted KP as the decision maker.


Wells said he is shocked that Bird left though he would stay to see the team win.

Interesting stuff, so at least Pritchard is out beating the bushes. DW is typically thought of as Donnie do-nothing on here, whereas KP has the rep as being super agressive, it should be interesting.

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 11:13 AM
I'll listen again.

I thought Wells was kind of throwing out possibilities but saying it was more than likely not a situation of Simon not wanting to spend.

maybe he was but I could of sworn he said he felt like Bird wanted to come back but didnt trust that Herb would pay the LT or what not when the time came.


But with how wishy washy Bird is we will never know I guess.



edit:

Peter Vecsey is on now. Just said Donnie wasnt just coming back for any job. Said only way he was coming back is if he is president. But he said it isnt a done deal until he meets with Herb.


Vecsey said it isnt health but he may just be tiered of working.


Vecsey just said Larry was in charge the last few years Donnie and Bird were here together.


Called Walsh a Consultant to Larry while in Indy his last few years said Bird had 100% control.


Said Walsh wasn't in charge when the Knicks traded for Melo and was not for it.


saying we are shopping Granger

Kemo
06-26-2012, 11:13 AM
Goodbye Lance?

I'll be pissed

billbradley
06-26-2012, 11:14 AM
maybe he was but I could of sworn he said he felt like Bird wanted to come back but didnt trust that Herb would pay the LT or what not when the time came.


But with how wishy washy Bird is we will never know I guess.

Grady asked if Bird was restricted with spending. Here is part of Wells' answer.


" In the past, talking to people that know Herb, Herb is open to spending money, but at the same time you have to wonder would he really do it." - Wells

Again, just proposing ideas, but all the people Wells has spoken to say Simon will spend.

http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Episodes.aspx?PID=2160

PacerPenguins
06-26-2012, 11:16 AM
So bird is leaving but he's back for a year now?

graphic-er
06-26-2012, 11:16 AM
Peter Vescey on Grady and Joe right now. Man this guy is a Dbag!

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 11:17 AM
Kravitz: A Different Bird Walks Away, Leaving Successor On Verge Of Something Big
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120626/SPORTS15/120626013

My God, the one sentence paragraphs.


Obviously he wrote this quickly

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 11:18 AM
Peter Vescey on Grady and Joe right now. Man this guy is a Dbag!
Hope Grady lets Vescey know that he puts this story out every year. He made a point of it earlier.

PR07
06-26-2012, 11:19 AM
I'd me more devastated by this if the Pacers had a lottery pick for the looming NBA Draft. The fact that it's at pick #26, means that more than likely we won't strike gold anyways. Just playing the odds.

Roaming Gnome
06-26-2012, 11:19 AM
Vecsey is SOOOOOO full of S&!t!!!
Damn, it's clear that Donnie and Peter are TIGHT!

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2012, 11:19 AM
Although a gentleman's rule would be nice. I don't bid on your RFA, don't bid on ours.

ie, illegal collusion. Yeah, that always goes over well.


And I'm with Kegboy, this idea that teams are out there just blasting past the LT is not reality. A FEW teams do it and it's kinda hard to do anyway due to restrictions on contracts you can take back. Once you are past the cap (even old CBA) you had tons of limits on what additional contracts you could acquire.

This is why a good portion of the Pacers fanbase that thinks the team can't compete with NY because Herb "refuses to spend" are just idiots, no way around it. Herb CAN NOT EVER just open a checkbook and start paying like it's the Yankees. Eventually you can do enough expensive trades and resigning of your own players to go past the LT, but once you hit the cap your salary acquisition slows WAY down due to rules.

PR07
06-26-2012, 11:21 AM
ie, illegal collusion. Yeah, that always goes over well.


And I'm with Kegboy, this idea that teams are out there just blasting past the LT is not reality. A FEW teams do it and it's kinda hard to do anyway due to restrictions on contracts you can take back. Once you are past the cap (even old CBA) you had tons of limits on what additional contracts you could acquire.

This is why a good portion of the Pacers fanbase that thinks the team can't compete with NY because Herb "refuses to spend" are just idiots, no way around it. Herb CAN NOT EVER just open a checkbook and start paying like it's the Yankees. Eventually you can do enough expensive trades and resigning of your own players to go past the LT, but once you hit the cap your salary acquisition slows WAY down due to rules.

The thing is though, we don't even know if Simon is willing to spend right now to get us to the salary cap threshold, let alone pay any sort of luxury tax.

Kemo
06-26-2012, 11:22 AM
Let's see if we can make some sense out of all this, without calling anyone a demon.

This is just a guess, but it makes sense to me.

After the season ends, Bird sounds like a guy who is ready to give it his all and continue to rebuild this team to lofty standards.

Some time passes, Bird's back starts to act up even more, and his doctor tells him "Larry, its time to get this taken care of, but it will require you take some time off for total rest and rehab.". In the meantime Bird calls Simon and says "We better put off this meeting, I've just been thrown a medical curve ball.".

After careful consideration, it is decided that he will have the surgery, and very reluctantly take a year off to (hopefully) fully recuperate. Now, the work still needs to be done, but Larry has been told by his doctor that he needs FULL REST AND REHAB for a lengthy time to recover.

Well, what to do?

Consider this as well. Perhaps part of the "negotiation" to be done between Simon and Bird had to do with whether Simon would allow Bird to take a year off from his duties (for the surgery and recuperation time), and then allow him to return when he healed. Part of this might have been Simon's concern with who would run the operation in Bird's absence.

Walsh is available. Bird and Simon are both very familiar with him, and there is a mutual trust and respect between the three. A plus is, if Larry is ready to return to work in a year, Walsh probably doesn't want to take on a heavy lifting role for a long time period to begin with.

So, the deal is done. Larry gets his surgery and time to heal. Walsh gets to "come back home" to help further a team he cares dearly about, and Simon gets to retain people he trusts in the front office throughout it all.

Like I say, I'm just guessing at all this. But it seems more likely than some of the behind the back conspiracy theories being pitched around.

Yeah, drama is more interesting, but sometimes the truth can be simple.

I hope u are right

Speed
06-26-2012, 11:24 AM
I'd be very surprised if Bird went to a different team. It's been either Indiana or bust for him and he'd retire.

I would have said the same thing, but he supposedly met with Orlando recently about their position. Its the one piece of info that doesn't make sense to me and makes it almost impossible to think that its JUST because of his back. I guess it could have been a courtesy meeting, who knows.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 11:25 AM
Wait, there's a documentary being made on The Rajah?

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 11:26 AM
The thing is though, we don't even know if Simon is willing to spend right now to get us to the salary cap threshold, let alone pay any sort of luxury tax.



ie, illegal collusion. Yeah, that always goes over well.


And I'm with Kegboy, this idea that teams are out there just blasting past the LT is not reality. A FEW teams do it and it's kinda hard to do anyway due to restrictions on contracts you can take back. Once you are past the cap (even old CBA) you had tons of limits on what additional contracts you could acquire.

This is why a good portion of the Pacers fanbase that thinks the team can't compete with NY because Herb "refuses to spend" are just idiots, no way around it. Herb CAN NOT EVER just open a checkbook and start paying like it's the Yankees. Eventually you can do enough expensive trades and resigning of your own players to go past the LT, but once you hit the cap your salary acquisition slows WAY down due to rules.

He is willing to spend but in the same light. If we spend just on our own guys we are proablly up to the tax. Face it in this day in age to win a championship you have to spend over the tax. We need a star and to get one via free agency like Deron Williams or Nash we would have to pay the tax and if Simon doesn't want to do that we will never win a ring.

Which is fine some owner wont do what it takes


Steinbrenner spending is what made the Yanks the Yankees. They didnt turn into a 3 billion dollar franchise by not putting a great product on the field and money into the team. The reason people go watch the Yankees in part was because George would do whatever it takes to win. Before the Yankees George barley had money he put his money back into the team which in turn has made his family filthy rich.

I dont expect Simon to go crazy but to win a ring you have to pay for great players look at LA's salary when they we winning. Look at what OKC's gonna be paying once they resign Harden and Ibaka BEING A WINNING OWNER ISNT CHEAP YOU HAVE TO SPEND TO WIN A TITLE AND WE ARE ALMOST THERE WE JUST NEED a few more pieces one being expensive a star.

vnzla81
06-26-2012, 11:28 AM
I like this news as long as Pritchard is the one in charge, now I'm a bit more excited about the draft, don't disappoint me Kevin ;)

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 11:30 AM
If you read Kravitz column, he makes it sound as though Pritchard is clearly in charge now and not Walsh. (although he doesn't address the Walsh issue directly.

so maybe Pritchard is in chrage and Walsh is being brought in as a security blanket and consultant of sorts.

vnzla81
06-26-2012, 11:30 AM
Vecsey is SOOOOOO full of S&!t!!!
Damn, it's clear that Donnie and Peter are TIGHT!

What is he saying?

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 11:33 AM
I could really see Danny going for a high draft pick tomorrow with this news. Man, this is some craziness, and here I thought we would have an eventful, but relatively stress free offseason. Guess I was wrong.

EDIT: If Walsh is going to be pres doesn't that give him control over Pritchard? Who is saying Pritch will be in charge? I am so confused right now. I can only imagine how our players must feel.

vnzla81
06-26-2012, 11:34 AM
He is willing to spend but in the same light. If we spend just on our own guys we are proablly up to the tax. Face it in this day in age to win a championship you have to spend over the tax. We need a star and to get one via free agency like Deron Williams or Nash we would have to pay the tax and if Simon doesn't want to do that we will never win a ring.

Which is fine some owner wont do what it takes

Steven A Smith said few weeks ago that "some owners" were rooting for Miami to win because they didn't want to have the pressure to win it all and they still want to use the "small market team excuse".

FrenchConnection
06-26-2012, 11:34 AM
He is willing to spend but in the same light. If we spend just on our own guys we are proablly up to the tax. Face it in this day in age to win a championship you have to spend over the tax. We need a star and to get one via free agency like Deron Williams or Nash we would have to pay the tax and if Simon doesn't want to do that we will never win.

Under the new CBA, the penalty for being over the tax is so severe that even the Lakers and Mavs had to get under it. I'm no cap guru, but my understanding is that along with a more severe financial penalty, tax payers don't have the full MLE, the bi-annual exemption and cannot conduct sign and trades. At the beginning of the season, Cuban was on Dan Patrick explaining that he made moves that lowered the talent level of a championship team to get under the tax. All the details are on this page, but you have to scroll down a bit: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 11:34 AM
**** Peter Vescey and whatever ******** he is shoveling.

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 11:36 AM
If you read Kravitz column, he makes it sound as though Pritchard is clearly in charge now and not Walsh. (although he doesn't address the Walsh issue directly.

so maybe Pritchard is in chrage and Walsh is being brought in as a security blanket and consultant of sorts.

Wells said Walsh is in charge so did Vescey (he said Walsh doesn't come to the Pacers unless he is the lead decision maker) I just don't get hiring a 71 year old man with health problems to be president.


I guess we will find out soon how this will work


Under the new CBA, the penalty for being over the tax is so severe that even the Lakers and Mavs had to get under it. I'm no cap guru, but my understanding is that along with a more severe financial penalty, tax payers don't have the full MLE, the bi-annual exemption and cannot conduct sign and trades. At the beginning of the season, Cuban was on Dan Patrick explaining that he made moves that lowered the talent level of a championship team to get under the tax. All the details are on this page, but you have to scroll down a bit: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Cuban got under the line so he can sign Deron Williams that is the only reason. Teams are still gonna spend watch the Heat add a MLE guy when they are already 8m over the tax. OKC is gonna have to spend any team that wants to win will spend. It really isnt overspending if it gets you a ring. I get not wanting to spend if your rebuliding I agree with that but if we are trying to win a ring we are gonna have to spend past the tax JMO. But again some guys dont care about doing what it takes to win.


EDIT: However I could see teams like OKC who doesn't draw as much revenue as an LA. Trade a guy like Harden for a top 5 pick and keep having to do that every 3 years rr so to keep from the money getting to crazy. I doubt OKC does it but Im sure the owner has talked about doing something like that so they don't lose so much money.

Spurs did that with Hill and it was very smart way to save money. But I think that had to do just as much basketball wise they loved Leonard.

I am guessing we do something like that with Collison so we dont overpay to keep him.

PR07
06-26-2012, 11:37 AM
Only difference is now Pritchard won't have the big pockets of Paul Allen to help make deals ($$$ for draft picks), as Simon apparently may keep his pockets tighter.

Blackhawk4
06-26-2012, 11:39 AM
Wells said Walsh is in charge so did Vescey (he said Walsh doesn't come to the Pacers unless he is the lead decision maker) I just don't get hiring a 71 year old man with health problems to be president.


I guess we will find out soon how this will work
Well if you know Larry will be back after a year and need someone to hold down the fort for a year it somewhat makes sense to get Walsh. If it's set in stone Bird comes back after a year, Pacers can live with Walsh for a year. It's not like Walsh is going to go crazy and go trading everyone. He is 71 and has some health problems, but you're asking one year out of him not 3-4 years. Pritchard is there as well so it's not like Walsh everything on his plate.

Speed
06-26-2012, 11:42 AM
Well if you know Larry will be back after a year and need someone to hold down the fort for a year it somewhat makes sense to get Walsh. If it's set in stone Bird comes back after a year, Pacers can live with Walsh for a year. It's not like Walsh is going to go crazy and go trading everyone. He is 71 and has some health problems, but you're asking one year out of him not 3-4 years. Pritchard is there as well so it's not like Walsh everything on his plate.

This occurred to me as well, if its really solely related to health, go golfing and fishing Larry, check in next April/May see where things stand. Hell, put an ownership group together and see what happens.

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 11:43 AM
Why won't the Pacers just ****ing say something about this already? The cat is out of the bag.

notque
06-26-2012, 11:43 AM
Terrible news. Bird has been pushed out to bring Walsh back? This is sickening!

And we're shopping Granger?! Ugh!!!!!!!!

vnzla81
06-26-2012, 11:45 AM
Terrible news. Bird has been pushed out to bring Walsh back? This is sickening!

And we're shopping Granger?! Ugh!!!!!!!!

Who said we are shopping Danny?

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 11:46 AM
Who said we are shopping Danny?

Vescey. So Danny'll retire a Pacer.

BornReady#6
06-26-2012, 11:48 AM
This feels like the start of our slow march to Seattle. I smell the hand of David Stern, quietly showing the owners how to turn a dollar eventually (by moving to Seattle) It is up to us to save the pacers by actually going to the games.

Trophy
06-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Terrible news. Bird has been pushed out to bring Walsh back? This is sickening!

And we're shopping Granger?! Ugh!!!!!!!!

Your whole statement is off.

Speed
06-26-2012, 11:48 AM
I have to say I'm surprised at the vehement dislike here for Donnie Walsh, same thing for Draymond Green, maybe I'm taking the Hyperbole too literal. I can get being tepid or disliking guys, but some of its 'sky is falling' stuff. I guess its just that time of year.

Trophy
06-26-2012, 11:49 AM
This feels like the start of our slow march to Seattle. I smell the hand of David Stern, quietly showing the owners how to turn a dollar eventually (by moving to Seattle) It is up to us to save the pacers by actually going to the games.

:wtf:

How does a change in the FO have to do with Seattle?

Hicks
06-26-2012, 11:53 AM
Why won't the Pacers just ****ing say something about this already? The cat is out of the bag.

I'm not convinced they've finalized exactly what's going to happen, hence the cat isn't really out of the bag completely just yet.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 11:56 AM
Your whole statement is off.
He's just mad that's probably it for Lance.

notque
06-26-2012, 11:58 AM
He's just mad that's probably it for Lance.

I don't care one bit about Lance. I think that Bird was refreshing after Walsh, and Bird is the one who created the situation we are in, and should be allowed to continue with it. Being pushed out for Walsh is no good.

graphic-er
06-26-2012, 12:00 PM
I don't care one bit about Lance. I think that Bird was refreshing after Walsh, and Bird is the one who created the situation we are in, and should be allowed to continue with it. Being pushed out for Walsh is no good.

Dude seriously, Bird isn't being pushed out. He is the one rejecting the Pacers now.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 12:01 PM
I don't care one bit about Lance. I think that Bird was refreshing after Walsh, and Bird is the one who created the situation we are in, and should be allowed to continue with it. Being pushed out for Walsh is no good.Quoted the wrong one, meant the BornReady dude talking about how we're going to be the Seattle Pacers.

I don't get how you conclude Bird was pushed out for Walsh though. Sure, anything's possible. But there's just enough info until they have the presser tomorrow or whenever.

notque
06-26-2012, 12:04 PM
I have to say I'm surprised at the vehement dislike here for Donnie Walsh, same thing for Draymond Green, maybe I'm taking the Hyperbole too literal. I can get being tepid or disliking guys, but some of its 'sky is falling' stuff. I guess its just that time of year.

Same thing with Draymond Green? The 26th pick is less than a 1/3rd shot of anyone even playing on an NBA team. You're going to pimp someone that will most likely never be as successful as Dahntay Jones..

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 12:04 PM
Jake Query ‏@jakequery

#Pritchard will be #Pacers GM, and will make personnel decisions. Walsh will assist in those decisions and oversee salaries.
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notque
06-26-2012, 12:04 PM
Dude seriously, Bird isn't being pushed out. He is the one rejecting the Pacers now.

Because they brought in Walsh.....

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 12:05 PM
Jake Query ‏@jakequery

Walsh was at pre draft workouts at invite of Bird. Had no contract with #Pacers at that point and was not paid for that consultation
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Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 12:06 PM
Jake Query ‏@jakequery

#Pritchard will be #Pacers GM, and will make personnel decisions. Walsh will assist in those decisions and oversee salaries.
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Hmm...

Query broke the Peyton Manning news, yes?

Someone call Rob Lowe and see what he knows.

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 12:06 PM
Jake Query ‏@jakequery

#Pritchard will be #Pacers GM, and will make personnel decisions. Walsh will assist in those decisions and oversee salaries.
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hope this is true I can handle KP in charge. I hope Walsh has a minimal role.


I bet we draft a pg if this is true KP loves stock piling pgs

Jeremy
06-26-2012, 12:06 PM
I don't know what to think about this. Change is good sometimes, but Larry did good at his job.

vnzla81
06-26-2012, 12:08 PM
Jake Query ‏@jakequery

#Pritchard will be #Pacers GM, and will make personnel decisions. Walsh will assist in those decisions and oversee salaries.
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I like it ;)

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Query also says he does NOT think Larry left for health reasons

notque
06-26-2012, 12:13 PM
Any time you can fire the executive of the year for a 71 year old, I think you have to do it.

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 12:13 PM
He didn't get fired, he's stepping down.


hope this is true I can handle KP in charge. I hope Walsh has a minimal role.

I give far more credence to Jake Query than I would give to ******** Boy Vecsey.

vnzla81
06-26-2012, 12:14 PM
I think is safe to say that we don't have "safe players" in our roster anymore, Tyler, Lance, Pender, Danny and DC are probably gone.

wintermute
06-26-2012, 12:24 PM
I think is safe to say that we don't have "safe players" in our roster anymore, Tyler, Lance, Pender, Danny and DC are probably gone.

Pendergraph is Pritchard's guy from Portland.

In fact, I won't be surprised if a few more ex-Blazers show up here, like Armon Johnson. Or Brandon Roy :pray:

Speed
06-26-2012, 12:25 PM
Same thing with Draymond Green? The 26th pick is less than a 1/3rd shot of anyone even playing on an NBA team. You're going to pimp someone that will most likely never be as successful as Dahntay Jones..

Yes, this is my point.

xIndyFan
06-26-2012, 12:25 PM
I don't know what to think about this. Change is good sometimes, but Larry did good at his job.

Le Roi est mort, vive le roi. :shrug:

graphic-er
06-26-2012, 12:25 PM
I think is safe to say that we don't have "safe players" in our roster anymore, Tyler, Lance, Pender, Danny and DC are probably gone.

Pendergraft was basically gifted to the Pacers by Pritchard. He is safe.

But yes I would be surprised to see some draft day dealings with DG and DC involved. Not sure anyone even wants Tyler.

Bball
06-26-2012, 12:26 PM
I think is safe to say that we don't have "safe players" in our roster anymore, Tyler, Lance, Pender, Danny and DC are probably gone.

Gone with Walsh? Look for them to get massive raises instead.

Kraft
06-26-2012, 12:27 PM
This thread is a giant Jump to Conclusions mat.

Ace E.Anderson
06-26-2012, 12:30 PM
Same thing with Draymond Green? The 26th pick is less than a 1/3rd shot of anyone even playing on an NBA team. You're going to pimp someone that will most likely never be as successful as Dahntay Jones..

What would make this selection even worse is the fact that there will be undoubtedly someone more talented than Green available at the 26th pick. Doron Lamb, Jeff Taylor, Marquis Teague, Tony Wroten, Jared Cunningham, Will Barton, Fab Melo, Royce White, Festus Ezeli, Quincy Miller, John Jenkins, etc are some of the players that could be available by the time the Pacers pick. So out of those guys, why select a "glue" guy? Definitely a head scratcher.

vnzla81
06-26-2012, 12:35 PM
I expect Kevin to try to bring Oden and Broy as our backups.

PacersPride
06-26-2012, 12:35 PM
this sucks. i dont care what any of the bird critics have to say. ive read most of their opinions and disagree with normally 80-90% of it all. i cant read the whole thread and usually do not post while at work. but this is horse****

so Simon is unwilling to let go of morwary im guessing. or is not willing to build a contender b/c that is the only reason Bird would leave. if it were only health related regarding his back surgery i think he would have taken a brief hiatus.

as of now my allegiance to the nba is jeopardy. always a pacer fan.. but the nba favoring the big city teams is a load of bull.

lotta respect for walsh during his previous tenure but i do nto want to see him back.

thank God the Hoosiers are back where they belong.

wintermute
06-26-2012, 12:35 PM
Teams are still gonna spend watch the Heat add a MLE guy when they are already 8m over the tax.


Actually, they can't due to the new rules. Teams that are $4m above the tax level can only offer the mini MLE (max of $9m over 3 years) which is significantly smaller than the full MLE (max of $20m over 4 years). That's why there's talk that the Heat may amnesty Mike Miller so that they can add a full MLE guy. But the point is that the Heat (or other taxpaying team) can't keep adding full MLE players without limit any more as they did in the past.



Spurs did that with Hill and it was very smart way to save money. But I think that had to do just as much basketball wise they loved Leonard.

I am guessing we do something like that with Collison so we dont overpay to keep him.

Oh yeah. The smart decision would be to recycle DC and Hans into cheap rookie scale deals.

Mr_Smith
06-26-2012, 12:37 PM
as much as I hate Dan Dakick that f****r is always right, especially about bird leaving

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 12:38 PM
Actually, they can't due to the new rules. Teams that are $4m above the tax level can only offer the mini MLE (max of $9m over 3 years) which is significantly smaller than the full MLE (max of $20m over 4 years). That's why there's talk that the Heat may amnesty Mike Miller so that they can add a full MLE guy. But the point is that the Heat (or other taxpaying team) can't keep adding full MLE players without limit any more as they did in the past.



Oh yeah. The smart decision would be to recycle DC and Hans into cheap rookie scale deals.

Ya I relize it is the MMLE but the point is they are gonna keep spending. They arent gonna be under the LT because they are in win now mode. A Ray Allen player will be added every year via mmle the fact is Miami will get better every off season(when they dont even need too) If the Pacers want to win they will need to spend over the tax to get a Nash or what not that is my point. I just think Simon wont be willing to do that and that is a huge reason Bird left JMO.

Speed
06-26-2012, 12:40 PM
as much as I hate Dan Dakick that f****r is always right, especially about bird leaving

What did he say?

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 12:41 PM
After seeing a pretty non-committal and fairly subdued Roy Hibbert on Fox 59 a few minutes ago, I can't help but wonder if the decision has been made from higher up that we will not be resigning him. I hope I'm wrong on that.
I didn't get that vibe from watching the Roy appearance on 59 this morning. He probably knows about as much as we do right now.

CableKC
06-26-2012, 12:52 PM
So, Dan Dakich's source was correct. And Peter Vecsey was correct as far back as February? Several others had it since too.
From all indications.....I get the sense that the decision to leave or stay wasn't decided and pretty much "fluid" up until this last meeting with Bird and the Simons. As many have suggested....Vecsey may have simply been reporting based off of assumptions without any real credible sources.

For all we know....this much vaunted and delayed :chin: meeting between Bird and the Simons could have gone either way but something changed and prompted Bird's exit. My guess is that there was some disagreement between Bird's insistence on promoting KP over Morway and the likely problems between Bird and Morway ( isn't he someone that the Simon's trusted? ) that led to Bird's decision.

wintermute
06-26-2012, 12:56 PM
Hmm, Vecsey is saying Bird will stay on as consultant, and that Pritchard is already (unofficially) in charge.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/not_don_deal_RBtUdsMsutJzxZL2v9kdjO



Walsh’s return to Pacers imminent; Bird to stay on as consultant
by Peter Vecsey

Donnie Walsh and I have been playing a little game for almost three decades. This is how it works: I call and leave a message, asking for verification on this, that or the third thing. No response means he can’t tell me the truth and doesn’t want to lie.

Thus, I’m on my own to figure out the answer.

Yesterday, I tried to contact Walsh via cell phone and email. Over the weekend, the Indianapolis Star reported the former Knicks’ president, whose non-consultancy with the team ends June 30 — his extraordinary West Side apartment vacated a minute ago — is returning to the Pacers’ front office, where he worked round-the-clock since before being entrapped in 2008 by James Dolan.

The report stated Walsh would be hired in "some capacity," either as a complement to team president Larry Bird or as his replacement.

Enthused by the Pacers’ auspicious future he carved out, Larry Legend changed his mind about retiring to Florida — and now ...

It’s unfathomable to think owner Herb Simon has any problem with that decision. Still, his stalling and flip-flopping might be held against him.

Seemingly, it’s done, though that could be deceiving. Kevin Pritchard, meanwhile, is making trade calls for the Pacers. Quietly, he was installed as GM, succeeding the universally mistrusted and iridescently dense David Morway.

Pritchard had the same title with the Blazers, who let him go two seasons ago. Briefly a Celtics’ teammate of Bird, he has been on call as a much-utilized consultant for over a year.

When in Indy, Pritchard made a point to break bread as often as possible with Walsh, whom I’ve yet to hear back from.

Once again, Walsh has left me hanging.

So, I’m forced to take a very educated guess.

Sources say Bird is leaving but not entirely; he’ll be retained as a distant consultant for a year. Meaning Walsh will be back in control, though that’s not set stone.

Simon, who lives in Southern California, is back in Indy, which is why an announcement of the change is expected momentarily.

MnvrChvy
06-26-2012, 01:10 PM
Well I like that this report indicates a good relationship between Walsh and KP. That's something at least.

CableKC
06-26-2012, 01:14 PM
I suspect Bird will stay on for the draft and be heavily involved.
I don't mind having Bird stay on as a Consultant....but that is the extent that I would want his involvement.

It's not Bird's ship to run anymore....it's Walsh's ship to run.

I don't like it....but it's Walsh's vision for the future that will guide this ship.....NOT Bird's. If Walsh is the type to "Swing for the fences" ( IMHO he is and always has been ) and wants to draft Bender 2.0 ( Quincy Miller ) instead of "bunting for a single" ( drafting Green ), then I don't mind Bird offering his suggesting to Walsh that the Team should just "play it safe" and draft Green....but in the end....it's Walsh's decision to make in the end.

Personally, the most that I would want Bird involved in the next 2 days is to offer his insights into what the Team should do in the draft and the offseason ( when it comes to Free Agency ) and then quietly depart in the night. I want a clear cut person running the show.

Uggh......this is why I wanted Bird to either commit for the long-term ( as in 3 to 4 years ) or just leave during the 2011 offseason when we were at a clean slate with the Salary Cap and a turning point in the Franchise. I didn't want Bird to start this retooling process last season ( thus committing assets and resources to a particular vision of the future ) and then leaving the next season. I'd rather have had Bird leave last season and have gone through this "change in regime" at the beginning of the 2011-2012 season and then given the new President of Basketball Operations ( whoever that would have been ) the most resources and assets at his disposal to lay out a vision of the future.

It's like having an architect design a house, start building it...then having a new architect come in a year later ( with a potentially different vision of how the house should be built ) when half the house is already finished.

PacersHomer
06-26-2012, 01:18 PM
If Pritchard is in charge then I feel a lot better right now.

CableKC
06-26-2012, 01:22 PM
Well I like that this report indicates a good relationship between Walsh and KP. That's something at least.
I really hope so......the one thing that I would have assumed is that any new President of Basketball Operations will always want to choose his 2nd in command and not be given one.

Remember that ST:TNG episode when Picard was sent on a secret mission and Captain Jellico took over? Riker was the 2nd in command and didn't get along with the "new boss" and vice versa. I don't want KP confined to his quarters when he "butts head" with Walsh.

Unless KP has a really tight relationship with Walsh....I can see KP butting heads with him. Honestly, despite what KP can do....if Walsh has a much better working relationship with Morway.....there's a part of me that would prefer to have Walsh/Morway over Walsh/KP.

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2012, 01:27 PM
The thing is though, we don't even know if Simon is willing to spend right now to get us to the salary cap threshold, let alone pay any sort of luxury tax.

Well we have ZERO evidence of Herb EVER failing to hit the cap. The Pacers spent 20 straight years OVER THE CAP to the point that they were never able to sign big FAs because they DIDN'T HAVE CAP SPACE.

(not yelling at you, emphasizing for everyone)

This whole "we don't sign FAs" thing is 100% BULLS***. The RULES always stated that the Pacers were not allowed to sign FAs other than MLEs (they did) or Min Exceptions (they did). They spent tons keeping guys like Reggie, Dale, Rik, etc around. They went max on JO's new deal.


This doesn't mean that Herb is not currently willing to go over the cap, I can't argue that. I'm just saying that if we look at evidence the only non-rumor evidence we have is past behavior. Simon was willing to spend for David West and was willing to let Bird "sign" Barbosa in a pick for salary trade.

When have the Pacers EVER had a legal (by CBA) shot at a big time FA that they went cheap and passed instead? They didn't resign Peja (great choice) and they didn't resign Brad Miller.

But in Peja's case he became a TE and Simon did allow it to be used to "sign" Harrington in a non-salary for salary trade. And in Brad's case the Pacers took back Ron Mercer and Scot Pollard's salary in the end, so they didn't cut costs they just avoided a risky investment.

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 01:29 PM
I'm not convinced they've finalized exactly what's going to happen, hence the cat isn't really out of the bag completely just yet.

Then why not just say that?

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 01:31 PM
Roy Hibbert (https://twitter.com/Hoya2aPacer/status/217666293149614080)

I'm not commenting on LB until I hear it from his mouth.

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 01:31 PM
Roy says on twitter he's not commenting on any of this til he hears it straight from Bird himself. What a cluster ****.

CableKC
06-26-2012, 01:40 PM
If you read Kravitz column, he makes it sound as though Pritchard is clearly in charge now and not Walsh. (although he doesn't address the Walsh issue directly.

so maybe Pritchard is in chrage and Walsh is being brought in as a security blanket and consultant of sorts.
Walsh isn't coming here to be a security blanket....he's only coming here is he is the guy making the final call on all decisions ( before, of course...presenting the decision to the Simons ).

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2012, 01:45 PM
He is willing to spend but in the same light. If we spend just on our own guys we are proablly up to the tax. Face it in this day in age to win a championship you have to spend over the tax.

But as Wintermute points out, and what I'm getting at too, is that you must have a LEGAL METHOD for acquiring this salary. It's not MLB where you just cut check after check. The CBA restricts how and when you can acquire salary. So even if the Pacers wanted Nash, it's possible that they would have to TRADE AWAY SALARY to get him, meaning a guy like Nash isn't a "only if you break the tax limit" guy because as far as I can tell the Pacers can't break that limit this season anyway.

Perhaps with the right combo of deals and then resigns of their own players? Even then there are caps on salaries based on years of service. You 100% can't give Roy Hibbert $20m per year for example. So getting to the tax is a difficult trick even if you are trying to do it on purpose.


Actually, they can't due to the new rules. Teams that are $4m above the tax level can only offer the mini MLE (max of $9m over 3 years) which is significantly smaller than the full MLE (max of $20m over 4 years). That's why there's talk that the Heat may amnesty Mike Miller so that they can add a full MLE guy. But the point is that the Heat (or other taxpaying team) can't keep adding full MLE players without limit any more as they did in the past.



Oh yeah. The smart decision would be to recycle DC and Hans into cheap rookie scale deals.

CableKC
06-26-2012, 01:46 PM
I have to say I'm surprised at the vehement dislike here for Donnie Walsh, same thing for Draymond Green, maybe I'm taking the Hyperbole too literal. I can get being tepid or disliking guys, but some of its 'sky is falling' stuff. I guess its just that time of year.
Despite what Bird would suggest on who to draft....the only positive outcome that I can see in all of this is that if Walsh is the guy making the call in the draft...Green won't be the guy that the Pacers draft. Walsh doesn't play it safe....or at the very least....he's going to go with a guy with a higher ceiling than go with a guy that is "good at doing everything, but isn't really great at doing something".

Speed
06-26-2012, 01:46 PM
I guessing, but I think Pritchard's in charge of Basketball decisions with Donnie Walsh's input. Donnie is in charge of helping with 'cap rules' and 'cap space' which is code for money. So, Donnie is in charge of watching Simon's money. I really have no idea, but I could see this as the set up. Good news is you have a control in place if Pritchard tries to go crazy and overpay. You, also, have something in place for Donnie being too conservative with KP pushing him to get stuff done. Bad news, Im not sure how conducive this is for a long term relationship.

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 01:46 PM
TJ Ford (https://twitter.com/tj_ford)

Congrats to HOF LARRY BIRD for getting Indiana Pacers basketball back to a good place. My time wasn't great BUT he kept it 100. will always remember our private conversation over my 3 yr span with HOF Larry Bird "just go out and play like you know how"

Class act through and through.

Speed
06-26-2012, 01:48 PM
Despite what Bird would suggest on who to draft....the only positive outcome that I can see in all of this is that if Walsh is the guy making the call in the draft...Green won't be the guy that the Pacers draft. Walsh doesn't play it safe....or at the very least....he's going to go with a guy with a higher ceiling than go with a guy that is "good at doing everything, but isn't really great at doing something".

Agreed, I could see both not wanting to settle for a low ceiling/conservative player.

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2012, 01:49 PM
Roy says on twitter he's not commenting on any of this til he hears it straight from Bird himself. What a cluster ****.

Now this is a conclusion we don't have to jump to. The method of all this news and rumors coming out has been a disaster full of contradictions and speculation...running right up to days before the draft.



BTW, I kinda like Walsh and I still think he's competent. The age thing is way overplayed. You can be 55 and dimwitted, 35 and naive, or 70 and wizened and polished. Who's to say, it falls to the type and health of each individual.

What I most want is a flipping PLAN in place and some sense that the TPTB have a clear, focused vision. This team can stay in Indy and win. I think Herb has Donnie coming in because he knows and trusts him.

CableKC
06-26-2012, 01:50 PM
Pendergraph is Pritchard's guy from Portland.

In fact, I won't be surprised if a few more ex-Blazers show up here, like Armon Johnson. Or Brandon Roy :pray:
I seriously think that this would have happened regardless of whether Bird or Walsh was running the show.

Naptown_Seth
06-26-2012, 01:50 PM
TJ Ford (https://twitter.com/tj_ford)


Class act through and through.
Yeah, that's really impressive. For all his on court "personality of his game", he's been pretty quality off the court. He should get lots of credit for this behavior and attitude.

Evan_The_Dude
06-26-2012, 01:53 PM
Is there a time set for a press conference or anything?

Unclebuck
06-26-2012, 01:53 PM
I think it will be a very smooth transition. We pretty much know that Bird wasn't the person doing most of the leg work, the prep work in making trades. Bird would usually finalize the deals, but Morway did most of the prep work. So I am sure Pirtchard has been doing the prep work for weeks now when it was obvious that Morway was out. So Pritchard will continue doing what he's been doing for weeks.

One area where I am confident that Walsh is better than Bird is in having dicsussions with other GM's around the league.

naptownmenace
06-26-2012, 01:59 PM
Until Pritchard's fired and Morway's back next week.

And I know that's not green.

I thought the exact same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a Walsh and Morway team.

This thing seems more like a messy split than Bird just leaving because of back surgery. I have a feeling that Bird and Simon had a falling out. Heck, they almost had a small falling out last summer when Bird hinted that he wasn't sure Simon would be willing to spend enough for them to be competitive.

CableKC
06-26-2012, 02:00 PM
What I most want is a flipping PLAN in place and some sense that the TPTB have a clear, focused vision. This team can stay in Indy and win. I think Herb has Donnie coming in because he knows and trusts him.
This is why I wanted Bird "completely in or out" last season....not the way that this ended up. A clear vision could be better achieved when you are not headed down the wrong path that you did not choose.


This thing seems more like a messy split than Bird just leaving because of back surgery. I have a feeling that Bird and Simon had a falling out. Heck, they almost had a small falling out last summer when Bird hinted that he wasn't sure Simon would be willing to spend enough for them to be competitive.
From what we can tell, Bird was "hemming and hawing" on whether he will stay or not......despite his health....all season long.

I can see health issues as a possible reason that Bird couldn't foresee last season......and therefore couldn't predict that he'd be forced to step down of his own accord. But I don't get the sense that health is the real reason why he's stepping down.

I really think ( just like you ) that all of this came down to Bird's vision of the future ( and what it will likely cost the Simons to get there ) and how it meshed with what the Simons were willing to do get there. Both sides didn't see entirely "eye to eye" and Bird decided to just leave.

MiaDragon
06-26-2012, 02:07 PM
I thought the exact same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at a Walsh and Morway team.

This thing seems more like a messy split than Bird just leaving because of back surgery. I have a feeling that Bird and Simon had a falling out. Heck, they almost had a small falling out last summer when Bird hinted that he wasn't sure Simon would be willing to spend enough for them to be competitive.


Yea I dont buy it was a "health" related decision. I thought we were finally heading in the right direction and now Im not sure what to think. Maybe it is time for Simon to sell the team.

bballpacen
06-26-2012, 02:07 PM
The speculation of Simon not wanting to spend could be a reason for the lack luster trading deadline of last season for the Pacers...

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 02:16 PM
The speculation of Simon not wanting to spend could be a reason for the lack luster trading deadline of last season for the Pacers...
you mean the one where we added 7.6 million in salary?

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 02:21 PM
says herb and Bird talked daily said Simon would spend money. But Larry wanted to go for it all and wanted to get best players and Wells not sure if Herb would spend when times comes to it would he pay the LT to get the team to a championship level and add elite players.


Wells said more to it than health wanted to really win.


Says Larry will stay on for the draft (duh lol)


Said Donnie Kevin and Bird probably wouldn't of worked.


said Donnie is gonna be running the show ****!!!


said KP will be GM **** I wanted KP as the decision maker.


Wells said he is shocked that Bird left though he would stay to see the team win.


My biggest fear... Walsh in control making the decisions. Son of a biscuit eater!!!!

RamBo_Lamar
06-26-2012, 02:24 PM
So Donnie Walsh returns and is getting a second chance here with the Pacers.
Things got pretty bad under his watch the last time he was here, and it almost
destroyed the franchise.

I really hope Herb Simon makes it very clear to Walsh that if he starts bringing
in dysfunctional knuckleheads and signing them to outrageous contracts again,
like the last time things got so terribly screwed up, that he will be fired and
there will be no more chances.

Pacergeek
06-26-2012, 02:25 PM
Why is everybody freaking out? Bird has been good, not great for us. He has made several mistakes in the past that everybody seems to be forgetting about. The Shawne Williams draft pick. Trading up to draft James White. Drafting Hansbrough before Ty Lawson. Most recently, Bird traded a first round pick for a role player in George Hill. And the biggest, most unforgettable mistake of them all, keeping JOB as coach entirely too long.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Gallinari is pretty damn good


How did Jordan Hill the 09 #8 pick work out?

Heisenberg
06-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Didn't Hill get dumped with some other guys for McGrady and his huge expiring deal to open up more cap?

CableKC
06-26-2012, 02:38 PM
Why is everybody freaking out? Bird has been good, not great for us. He has made several mistakes in the past that everybody seems to be forgetting about. The Shawne Williams draft pick. Trading up to draft James White. Drafting Hansbrough before Ty Lawson. Most recently, Bird traded a first round pick for a role player in George Hill. And the biggest, most unforgettable mistake of them all, keeping JOB as coach entirely too long.
Trading GH for Leonard was not a bad move. It was a risky move...but a move that made sense and addressed a need.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 02:45 PM
Vecsey just said Larry was in charge the last few years Donnie and Bird were here together.


Called Walsh a Consultant to Larry while in Indy his last few years said Bird had 100% control.


I'm calling BS on this. So now Bird made the GS trade instead of Walsh!


Edit: When Monteith was the Star writer he made the statement that "everyone knows Bird didn't take over until ...." The date was after Walsh left. He was adament about it b/c some on RATS some disputed his statement. He came off very haughty about his knowledge of when Bird took over.

PR07
06-26-2012, 02:46 PM
Well we have ZERO evidence of Herb EVER failing to hit the cap. The Pacers spent 20 straight years OVER THE CAP to the point that they were never able to sign big FAs because they DIDN'T HAVE CAP SPACE.

(not yelling at you, emphasizing for everyone)

This whole "we don't sign FAs" thing is 100% BULLS***. The RULES always stated that the Pacers were not allowed to sign FAs other than MLEs (they did) or Min Exceptions (they did). They spent tons keeping guys like Reggie, Dale, Rik, etc around. They went max on JO's new deal.


This doesn't mean that Herb is not currently willing to go over the cap, I can't argue that. I'm just saying that if we look at evidence the only non-rumor evidence we have is past behavior. Simon was willing to spend for David West and was willing to let Bird "sign" Barbosa in a pick for salary trade.

When have the Pacers EVER had a legal (by CBA) shot at a big time FA that they went cheap and passed instead? They didn't resign Peja (great choice) and they didn't resign Brad Miller.

But in Peja's case he became a TE and Simon did allow it to be used to "sign" Harrington in a non-salary for salary trade. And in Brad's case the Pacers took back Ron Mercer and Scot Pollard's salary in the end, so they didn't cut costs they just avoided a risky investment.

My point, as well as my guess is the Pacers likely stand pat with the guys they have (this offseason), lock them up to long-term contracts this year and the next few offseasons and that will be that, as it will get us close to the salary cap threshold sooner rather than later. That though, isn't good enough, and it's likely why Bird walked away as this team still needs another piece or two. Such pieces would quickly propel us into luxury tax land, but it would solidify us as a contender and not just this decade's version of the Atlanta Hawks. We need to spend something this offseason on a good piece, or we'll likely not have such an opportunity again for a while.

Dr. Awesome
06-26-2012, 02:59 PM
Just when we finally get things on the right track....


This is seriously a cluster ****.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 03:01 PM
I could really see Danny going for a high draft pick tomorrow with this news. Man, this is some craziness, and here I thought we would have an eventful, but relatively stress free offseason. Guess I was wrong.

EDIT: If Walsh is going to be pres doesn't that give him control over Pritchard? Who is saying Pritch will be in charge? I am so confused right now. I can only imagine how our players must feel.



I thanked you for the edit part of your post.

rabid
06-26-2012, 03:03 PM
Wow, lots of wild rampant speculation and assumptions in this thread. Obviously there are huge chunks of missing information here and it appears that things might not even be settled yet. I'm waiting for more info to see where this goes. Not sure what to think at this point...

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 03:05 PM
I'm not convinced they've finalized exactly what's going to happen, hence the cat isn't really out of the bag completely just yet.


I sure hope you are right!

Cactus Jax
06-26-2012, 03:08 PM
The one major issue is if there's a lot of change during the draft, Danny/DC/Tyler being traded, it may signal the end of Roy being in Indiana if he demands to not be a Pacer anymore. (Not that I see that in Roy's personality) I've always thought it was going to take the max to resign Hibbert, and we'll see in the next couple weeks if that becomes the case, either way it can't be good for negotiations. I also thought George Hill was a Bird move so that may mean the team is not going to resign him either if it gets too expensive. I'm not saying the Pacers will be cheap all of a sudden, it may just mean there's a new roster in place.

Pacergeek
06-26-2012, 03:13 PM
The one major issue is if there's a lot of change during the draft, Danny/DC/Tyler being traded, it may signal the end of Roy being in Indiana if he demands to not be a Pacer anymore. (Not that I see that in Roy's personality) I've always thought it was going to take the max to resign Hibbert, and we'll see in the next couple weeks if that becomes the case, either way it can't be good for negotiations. I also thought George Hill was a Bird move so that may mean the team is not going to resign him either if it gets too expensive. I'm not saying the Pacers will be cheap all of a sudden, it may just mean there's a new roster in place.

If Hibbert is asking for the max, then we should let him walk. The NBA has moved away from big, lumbering centers

Cactus Jax
06-26-2012, 03:16 PM
If Hibbert is asking for the max, then we should let him walk. The NBA has moved away from big, lumbering centers

Well it may not take the max if Houston finds a way to get Dwight Howard, they've always been the major team that was willing to spend and wants a big badly.

PacersHomer
06-26-2012, 03:19 PM
Hibbert is not leaving.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 03:25 PM
Walsh isn't coming here to be a security blanket....he's only coming here is he is the guy making the final call on all decisions ( before, of course...presenting the decision to the Simons ).


That's how I see it, and what Peter Vecsey said. Walsh will have the final say in the FO. I don't like it in any way, shape, or form.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 03:34 PM
70 and wizened and polished.



Some are even more so in their 80's!!

presto123
06-26-2012, 03:38 PM
I like Larry but I too would much prefer Kevin Pritchard. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 03:41 PM
I really think ( just like you ) that all of this came down to Bird's vision of the future ( and what it will likely cost the Simons to get there ) and how it meshed with what the Simons were willing to do get there. Both sides didn't see entirely "eye to eye" and Bird decided to just leave.



I'd say you are on the right track in your thinking.