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View Full Version : NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...



docpaul
06-25-2012, 10:05 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/donnie-walsh-ny-knicks-president-takes-job-larry-bird-indiana-pacers-article-1.1102153



Donnie Walsh, former NY Knicks president, takes job with Indiana Pacers

The long-time Pacers CEO will lead the team's efforts to sign players in free agency, starting with the team's own restricted free agent point guard George Hill. Walsh's arrival does not mean that Larry Bird's exit is imminent.

BY MITCH LAWRENCE (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors?author=Mitch%20Lawrence) / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Ex-Knicks president Donnie Walsh (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Donnie+Walsh), ousted by Garden chairman Jim Dolan last June after he was offered a 40% pay cut, is returning to the Indiana Pacers.
Walsh, the long-time Indiana CEO before he came to New York to rebuild the Knicks, will be leading the Pacers in their efforts to land free agents starting when the period opens Sunday, league sources said Monday. The team's No. 1 priority is to re-sign point guard George Hill, a restricted free agent, and sources said Walsh will be spearheading the team's efforts to keep Hill.

Walsh, 71, has a close relationship with Pacers owner Herb Simon and has been attending the team's pre-draft workouts in recent weeks. He was ousted near the end of his third season in New York after Dolan refused to give him full autonomy and offered him a substantial paycut. Although he was a consultant for the Knicks this past season, he had no input with the team from his Indianapolis home.

Dolan's move to trade for Carmelo Anthony in 2011 was a factor in Walsh deciding he had enough of the way Dolan and the Garden conduct their business, as Walsh always had to put up with Isiah Thomas' presence as Dolan's chief, unpaid consultant. Officially, the two sides explained Walsh's departure by saying he refused to agree to a multi-year deal. The Knicks have never replaced Walsh, who undertook the massive rebuilding effort that landed the team Amar'e Stoudemire in July, 2010, after it lost out to Miami in the LeBron James sweepstakes.

Walsh's return to the team he led for 24 seasons will not necessarily mark the end of Larry Bird's tenure as team president. Bird said he wanted to return after the Pacers' season ended with a second-round loss to the Miami Heat. One indication that the NBA incon likely is staying is that Kevin Pritchard is expected to be promoted from director of player personnel to general manager. Formerly the GM in Portland, Pritchard was brought to the organization by Bird. GM David Morway has not been around the team in recent weeks and the team has not explained his absence.

Should make for an interesting week. The focus on re-signing Hill is very interesting, indeed. Says to me that they know that Hibbert is in the bag.

Hicks
06-25-2012, 10:10 PM
Or they plan to let him walk?

Kegboy
06-25-2012, 10:10 PM
:confused:

PR07
06-25-2012, 10:11 PM
Make Steve Nash our #1 priority, and I'm sold.

Hypnotiq
06-25-2012, 10:13 PM
Cant say im thrilled about this tbh

PacerPenguins
06-25-2012, 10:17 PM
Hibbert would be my #1 priority.......

mattie
06-25-2012, 10:17 PM
This sucks.

Hicks
06-25-2012, 10:18 PM
I can't decide if I'm encouraged or concerned by this turn of events here.

docpaul
06-25-2012, 10:20 PM
Confused by the speculation that this is a "bad move".

Did you all feel that way when Pritchard was brought on board as a member of the management team? Walsh is clearly being brought in, in the same capacity.

More good experience and knowledge behind Bird = a positive thing, no matter how you slice it.

Additionally, there's been literally *zero* evidence that the team won't sign Hibbert. Not sure why people would take the way this article is written to suggest otherwise. Hibbert is about as close to a sure thing as one could imagine short of him signing the extension this season.

Young
06-25-2012, 10:22 PM
I just don't understand this.

There is no reason to bring in Donnie. Larry and David did an excellent job since Donnie left. Now it appears that Bird wants David out and wants Kevin as GM. That is fine, imo. Why bring in Donnie though? I know he did great things for this organization but Larry did a fabulous job given the cards he was dealt. This team is on the verge of being a championship contender and I hate to see Bird go. I know that the article says just because Donnie is coming back doesn't mean Bird is gone but I would be totally shocked if Bird also came back. I am not saying he hates Donnie but they worked together before. Granted the circumstances have changed from season to season but I don't think anyone can deny that this thing has worked out much better since Donnie left and Larry took over.

My hope has been that Larry stays on as president until Simon is ready to sell the team and then Larry puts an ownership group together to buy it from Simon. I would like to see that type of stability in place especially since this team is so close to contender status.

Maybe I have this all wrong and this will work out. My initial reaction to this is I don't like it one bit.

tadscout
06-25-2012, 10:24 PM
Confused by the speculation that this is a "bad move".

Did you all feel that way when Pritchard was brought on board as a member of the management team? Walsh is clearly being brought in, in the same capacity.

More good experience and knowledge behind Bird = a positive thing, no matter how you slice it.

Additionally, there's been literally *zero* evidence that the team won't sign Hibbert. Not sure why people would take the way this article is written to suggest otherwise. Hibbert is about as close to a sure thing as one could imagine short of him signing the extension this season.

I agree every bit, just as long as DW doesn't negotiate the FA contracts, and is just there to wine and dine/ BS players; as well as be an extra brain to pick.

Kraft
06-25-2012, 10:27 PM
Wake me up when we get the real, complete story.

CableKC
06-25-2012, 10:27 PM
this article says nothing of what title or actual position that he will hold in the front office. If anything, this tells us nothing new that we didn't know already.

tadscout
06-25-2012, 10:27 PM
Also... Where is Mike Wells? Isn't he supposed to be the team beat reporter? He breaks the least amount of news for a beat reporter...

Hicks
06-25-2012, 10:29 PM
We'll see how awesome it is if/when we pay Hill close to 9 or 10 million a year...

Hicks
06-25-2012, 10:30 PM
I agree every bit, just as long as DW doesn't negotiate the FA contracts, and is just there to wine and dine/ BS players; as well as be an extra brain to pick.

I agree.

Hypnotiq
06-25-2012, 10:31 PM
We'll see how awesome it is if/when we pay Hill close to 9 or 10 million a year...

you kidding? id be getting my pitchforks ready if we pay hill that much

docpaul
06-25-2012, 10:35 PM
Wells actually was the first person to write about Walsh's return. He just didn't go so far as to say he was officially back and that his first job was to bring Hill back (which still strikes me as an odd thing to put on his plate).

tadscout
06-25-2012, 10:35 PM
DW has been at the pre-draft workouts... maybe all this Draymond Green talk is a classic DW smoke screen???

Well, one could hope at least :pray:

rm1369
06-25-2012, 10:35 PM
More and more I am starting to believe that this franchise is disfunctional and has an ownership problem. They cry poverty to the city yet they can't operate without 3 top level management guys? The same team that has told us they cant afford big time FAs? Reuniting the management team that nearly destroyed the franchise? The stupid restriction on bidding on other teams RFAs. It's starting to sound an awful lot like the Indiana Clippers. Hey, at least when everything blows up Bird can keep his nose clean again - it will all be DWs fault. And if it works - Larry's a genius!

docpaul
06-25-2012, 10:37 PM
More and more I am starting to believe that this franchise is disfunctional and has an ownership problem. They cry poverty to the city yet they can't operate without 3 top level management guys? The same team that has told us they cant afford big time FAs. Reuniting the management team that nearly destroyed the franchise? The stupid restriction on bidding on other teams RFAs? It's starting to sound an awful lot like the Indiana Clippers. Hey, at least when everything blows up Bird can keep his nose clean again - it will all be DWs fault. And if it works - Larry's a genius!

Huh, have you watched the team in the past couple of years? Is the final product not improving enough for you?

Am I in some kind of bizzaro world here?

Kid Minneapolis
06-25-2012, 10:37 PM
Welcome back, Donnie!

And... good grief.... just got a great manager back in the fold, and y'all are complaining. :confused:

Hypnotiq
06-25-2012, 10:39 PM
More and more I am starting to believe that this franchise is disfunctional and has an ownership problem. They cry poverty to the city yet they can't operate without 3 top level management guys? The same team that has told us they cant afford big time FAs? Reuniting the management team that nearly destroyed the franchise? The stupid restriction on bidding on other teams RFAs. It's starting to sound an awful lot like the Indiana Clippers. Hey, at least when everything blows up Bird can keep his nose clean again - it will all be DWs fault. And if it works - Larry's a genius!

:50cent:

Sandman21
06-25-2012, 10:41 PM
We should be worried about what a NY writer is reporting about us?

@ChrisMannixSI: Several league execs believe Indiana and Brooklyn will match any offers for Roy Hibbert/Brook Lopez

Calm down people.

Day-V
06-25-2012, 10:42 PM
It's starting to sound an awful lot like the Indiana Clippers.

Holy Over-reaction, Batman!

Bball
06-25-2012, 10:43 PM
What an absolute off-season buzzkill.

Hicks
06-25-2012, 10:46 PM
More and more I am starting to believe that this franchise is disfunctional and has an ownership problem. They cry poverty to the city yet they can't operate without 3 top level management guys? The same team that has told us they cant afford big time FAs? Reuniting the management team that nearly destroyed the franchise? The stupid restriction on bidding on other teams RFAs. It's starting to sound an awful lot like the Indiana Clippers. Hey, at least when everything blows up Bird can keep his nose clean again - it will all be DWs fault. And if it works - Larry's a genius!

One does wonder....

tadscout
06-25-2012, 10:46 PM
More and more I am starting to believe that this franchise is disfunctional and has an ownership problem. They cry poverty to the city yet they can't operate without 3 top level management guys? The same team that has told us they cant afford big time FAs? Reuniting the management team that nearly destroyed the franchise? The stupid restriction on bidding on other teams RFAs. It's starting to sound an awful lot like the Indiana Clippers. Hey, at least when everything blows up Bird can keep his nose clean again - it will all be DWs fault. And if it works - Larry's a genius!

Where have you been the last 1-2 years? LB did exactly what he said he would do in his three year plan, and not many if any GMs could have done it as well, sticking to the plan.

The RFA thing is only common sense... Only way you can actually sign a RFA is to overpay, a luxury a small market team can't do. Also Simon said in an interview he would allow LB to go after a RFA if it was a right player (and those normally are players that would be matched by their own team no matter what!). So pretty much only way we can get a RFA and not overpay for their talent is if it is a max level player and their team can't match b/c of going over the luxury tax. -- Only common sense.

LoneGranger33
06-25-2012, 10:47 PM
We'll see how awesome it is if/when we pay Hill close to 9 or 10 million a year...


you kidding? id be getting my pitchforks ready if we pay hill that much

If we resign him, we're definitely going to overpay him. The guy thought he was worth 7.5 million in January. I can't imagine he'd be willing to go lower now after all that April hype.

vnzla81
06-25-2012, 10:52 PM
More and more I am starting to believe that this franchise is disfunctional and has an ownership problem. They cry poverty to the city yet they can't operate without 3 top level management guys? The same team that has told us they cant afford big time FAs? Reuniting the management team that nearly destroyed the franchise? The stupid restriction on bidding on other teams RFAs. It's starting to sound an awful lot like the Indiana Clippers. Hey, at least when everything blows up Bird can keep his nose clean again - it will all be DWs fault. And if it works - Larry's a genius!


Yep Walsh is back and any mistake that is made from now on would be his fault once again.

rm1369
06-25-2012, 11:01 PM
Huh, have you watched the team in the past couple of years? Is the final product not improving enough for you?

Am I in some kind of bizzaro world here?

Larry is considered a genius for cleaning up the mess that either DW alone or he and DW created (depending on what you want to believe). So I guess I need someone smarter than me to explain the logic in reuniting the two. And to explain why you also need Pritchard? Wasn't the team crying poverty just a year ago? And you need three guys capable of running a team working together to do what? Re-sign your own RFAs? Complete BS!

And yes I've watched the team and it's a nice collection of decent talent that will be rebuilding in 3 years after they max out as maybe conference finalists - that's if they keep getting lucky with injuries - Howard, Bosh, Rose. They are a very nice collegant style team. That doesn't win titles in the NBA. I'd be much happier with a worse record, but a team that I believe was building to something bigger than just making the playoffs. I don't need instant gratification - I just need to believe that everyone associated with the team is dieing to win a title. I've never felt that way with the Pacers. And it doesn't help that before free agency begins I'm told not to expect a big time FA. But I'll be damned if we can't hire another front office guy!

Kraft
06-25-2012, 11:01 PM
Also, no matter who is in the front office, the group should always get the blame for mistakes. What is the point in trying to dissect who did what and who called who?

Save yourself the headache. If they're part of the front office, they should get their share of credit for the good decisions and blame for the bad ones.

PaceBalls
06-25-2012, 11:08 PM
I like it. Donnie Walsh is as savvy as they come.

BlueNGold
06-25-2012, 11:10 PM
I tend to wonder if this means Larry's days are numbered. He brings in Pritchard and maybe Walsh to ease the transition for the Simons. Hmmm.

tadscout
06-25-2012, 11:13 PM
But I'll be damned if we can't hire another front office guy!

Hicks had a series of tweets a couple days ago from a NBA writer explaining how NBA front offices work. The have a decision maker that has final say, and leads the FO team in vision. Then they work as a team to accomplish that vision, taking certain roles/responsibilities.

Most teams have around 3 guys in front office (titles are different for teams, but for example - GM, assistant GM, and director of player personnel - unless you follow a team close you normally don't hear about the 3rd guy)

Once we had - DW/Bird/Morway
Last year we had - Bird/Morway/Pritchard
This year - Bird/Pritchard/DW

Not like we are out of the norm when it comes to people in the front office.

Pacersalltheway10
06-25-2012, 11:13 PM
I'm glad he's back. It sounds more and more likely that the Pacers will make a splash in free agency. Walsh did a pretty good job in New York, before and after the Melo trade. Walsh has that "big market" feel and could have been brought in to recruit FA; It's been said that it wasn't because no superstar wanted to play in Indiana it was because the Pacers didn't want them.

docpaul
06-25-2012, 11:14 PM
Larry is considered a genius for cleaning up the mess that either DW alone or he and DW created (depending on what you want to believe). So I guess I need someone smarter than me to explain the logic in reuniting the two. And to explain why you also need Pritchard? Wasn't the team crying poverty just a year ago? And you need three guys capable of running a team working together to do what? Re-sign your own RFAs? Complete BS!

And yes I've watched the team and it's a nice collection of decent talent that will be rebuilding in 3 years after they max out as maybe conference finalists - that's if they keep getting lucky with injuries - Howard, Bosh, Rose. They are a very nice collegant style team. That doesn't win titles in the NBA. I'd be much happier with a worse record, but a team that I believe was building to something bigger than just making the playoffs. I don't need instant gratification - I just need to believe that everyone associated with the team is dieing to win a title. I've never felt that way with the Pacers. And it doesn't help that before free agency begins I'm told not to expect a big time FA. But I'll be damned if we can't hire another front office guy!

For some reason, this argument reminds me of how my wife is around food.

Wife: "man, this sandwich is good... what is it?"
Me: "I think it's chicken salad."
Wife: "what are the ingredients?"
Me: "Hmm, probably chicken, celery, mayo?"
Wife: "yuck, mayo... I can't stand mayo."
Me: "Yeah, I know that. Why did you stop eating the sandwich?"
Wife: "I hate mayo."

I guess I never understand why some are so concerned with the ingredients, and why they can't simply enjoy the sandwich? :) It either tastes good, or it doesn't. I'm certainly not one to get in the way of the chefs... because I'm not a chef myself. :)

rm1369
06-25-2012, 11:15 PM
Where have you been the last 1-2 years? LB did exactly what he said he would do in his three year plan, and not many if any GMs could have done it as well, sticking to the plan.

The RFA thing is only common sense... Only way you can actually sign a RFA is to overpay, a luxury a small market team can't do. Also Simon said in an interview he would allow LB to go after a RFA if it was a right player (and those normally are players that would be matched by their own team no matter what!). So pretty much only way we can get a RFA and not overpay for their talent is if it is a max level player and their team can't match b/c of going over the luxury tax. -- Only common sense.

I'm underwhelmed by the team. The record is nice, but I don't believe this team goes anywhere. Partly because I believe they lack top level talent and partly because they dont have the desire or the balls to make a bold move to acquire that type of talent. They won't jeopardize priority #1 - make the playoffs.

As for RFAs, I fully understand that the rules make it difficult and / or expensive to acquire a RFA. However, it is completely absurd for the team to completely take those players off the table. We haven't been told that it's difficult or even unlikely, we've been told that the mighty EOY (and his high powered team) can't be trusted to make decisions on an individual basis. They can't do it - period. If you don't find that absurd, then we will just have to disagree.

rm1369
06-25-2012, 11:23 PM
For some reason, this argument reminds me of how my wife is around food.

Wife: "man, this sandwich is good... what is it?"
Me: "I think it's chicken salad."
Wife: "what are the ingredients?"
Me: "Hmm, probably chicken, celery, mayo?"
Wife: "yuck, mayo... I can't stand mayo."
Me: "Yeah, I know that. Why did you stop eating the sandwich?"
Wife: "I hate mayo."

I guess I never understand why some are so concerned with the ingredients, and why they can't simply enjoy the sandwich? :) It either tastes good, or it doesn't. I'm certainly not one to get in the way of the chefs... because I'm not a chef myself. :)

Are you suggesting I should be happy with a nice little team that plays hard and looks good, but can never really compete with the big boys? If so, then we may just be different types of fans. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. I actually enjoy watching a team learn and improve if I believe in where they are going. I'm more excited for this upcoming Colts season than any in the last 5 years. I believe in what they are doing. I don't believe in what the Pacers are selling. It kills me because I really, truly would like to. But I don't. This team, IMO, is fools gold. I would love to be wrong. The worst part is we likely won't know for sure for 2 - 3 more years.

Trader Joe
06-25-2012, 11:25 PM
Are we really questioning the Simon ownership group? The same group that lead this team out of duldrums of the 80s? Get out of here with that nonsense. Silliest damn thing I've read all day. Maybe the RFA thing is silly (ok it's really silly), but claiming they don't want to spend a la the Clippers? Absolutely insane. If anything, the Simon's have proven to be too willing to spend, that is how we ended up in our last situation, we were over paying WAY too much, but now people are trying to spin it like we don't know if the Simon's will pay to win? Come on now it can't be both, and we've already seen plenty of proof that over spending will break our back.

People always like to talk about the Pacers not being able to get big name stars, here's a question about the other side of the coin, when was the last time the Pacers lost a really good player that they wouldn't pay? Only guy I can think of is Brad Miller, and that's because we were busy forking over one of the largest contracts in NBA history to Jermaine O'Neal. The Simon's will pay to win, I have no doubt about that, if anything they will overpay, so yes we will pay Roy, even if it means it is a max deal (which I dread.)

Comparing the Pacers to the Clippers? Talk about delusional. The Clippers are a franchise famous for not paying their own players, the Pacers are probably famous for over paying our own players.

This is a figure head position in the end. Believe me the Simons are very loyal, that is one thing that is true about them, and I wouldn't be surprised if Walsh asked for some sort of job so he could feel like he was doing SOMETHING. Saying he's in charge of our "free agents" could just be fluff. There is a whole lot of over reaction in here.

What has Bird done to go from chosen one to pariah on here now? Most of this board needs to learn to live more in the middle. Two months ago Bird was infallible, now he is part of the group that hires Walsh and people are willing to go jump off the Soldier's and Sailor's monument. Doesn't make any damn sense.

tadscout
06-25-2012, 11:27 PM
Are we really questioning the Simon ownership group? The same group that lead this team out of duldrums of the 80s? Get out of here with that nonsense. Silliest damn thing I've read all day.

Comparing the Pacers to the Clippers? Talk about delusional.

:amen:

docpaul
06-25-2012, 11:28 PM
Are you suggesting I should be happy with a nice little team that plays hard and looks good, but can never really compete with the big boys? If so, then we may just be different types of fans. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. I actually enjoy watching a team learn and improve if I believe in where they are going. I'm more excited for this upcoming Colts season than any in the last 5 years. I believe in what they are doing. I don't believe in what the Pacers are selling. It kills me because I really, truly would like to. But I don't. This team, IMO, is fools gold. I would love to be wrong. The worst part is we likely won't know for sure for 2 - 3 more years.

This strikes me as a separate concern than who comes into the front office?

Me, personally... I still think the team is in the building phase, and hasn't actually had the chance to trade/deal from a position of strength. But I'm no more of a Nostradamus than you are. Shrug.

I just don't see what our team's long term potential has to do with a story about bringing Walsh in a supporting role.

In a couple of years of playoff mediocrity (once it happens), it would seem sensible to be frustrated by our team's water treading. However, we're not really at that place yet.

pacer4ever
06-25-2012, 11:30 PM
Where have you been the last 1-2 years? LB did exactly what he said he would do in his three year plan, and not many if any GMs could have done it as well, sticking to the plan.

The RFA thing is only common sense... Only way you can actually sign a RFA is to overpay, a luxury a small market team can't do. Also Simon said in an interview he would allow LB to go after a RFA if it was a right player (and those normally are players that would be matched by their own team no matter what!). So pretty much only way we can get a RFA and not overpay for their talent is if it is a max level player and their team can't match b/c of going over the luxury tax. -- Only common sense.
Totally disagree there are situations where RFA makes sense. Think about when a team is up versus the cap. There are times you don't overpay OJ Mayo for example is a RFA yet the Grizz can't afford him. The RFA thing isn't common sense it's plain stupid to hinder your team that way regardless if you ever plan to go after RFAs.

Larry Staverman
06-25-2012, 11:30 PM
I see it more like Walsh has been working for 50 yrs then retires for a yr and his wife is nagging the s*** out of him and driving him crazy so he calls his old buddy Herb Simon and asks if he can help him. Herbie says you can have an office and do some BS job with the club so you can get away from being with the wife 24/7 and have some peace and quiet.

Hicks
06-25-2012, 11:31 PM
For my part, I'm suggesting that maybe Herb Simon is not an A+ owner but perhaps an A- owner and that if that is the case, the already-stated concerns may help to explain why.

Bball
06-25-2012, 11:32 PM
Having Walsh back means you can cross out any Free Agents... RFA or not. We're going to overpay our own, which is one thing when your own are really, really good... and entirely another when your own are somewhere between 'untapped potential' and 'nice player'... and need to retain flexibility in order to improve.

Maybe Bird and company wouldn't have looked to FA as well this summer... but it's guaranteed with Walsh we won't.

You're not going to tell me that Walsh returning to the team doesn't mean things will not revert back to his way. Otherwise, why even do it?

And why would Bird want him back???

This smells like a Simon hire and it seems like some kind of trump card being played because Bird wanted to can Morway. It also seems to explain the delays we've been seeing with meetings. Bird still might be back... but I wouldn't be surprised to see him not be either.

Can Bird or make him uncomfortable so he quits... whatever... Say no to Pritchard and stick with Morway... But why would Simon want Walsh back??? It is NOT (IMHO) a basketball move. It's the old boys club getting back together.

We have ownership issues.

BornReady
06-25-2012, 11:32 PM
Are you suggesting I should be happy with a nice little team that plays hard and looks good, but can never really compete with the big boys? If so, then we may just be different types of fans. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. I actually enjoy watching a team learn and improve if I believe in where they are going. I'm more excited for this upcoming Colts season than any in the last 5 years. I believe in what they are doing. I don't believe in what the Pacers are selling. It kills me because I really, truly would like to. But I don't. This team, IMO, is fools gold. I would love to be wrong. The worst part is we likely won't know for sure for 2 - 3 more years.

so how do you really feel? ;)

Trader Joe
06-25-2012, 11:35 PM
For my part, I'm suggesting that maybe Herb Simon is not an A+ owner but perhaps an A- owner and that if that is the case, the already-stated concerns may help to explain why.

What has Simon ever done to suggest that? I mean honestly? Who has he refused to pay? To me the RFA thing is a silly standard to have, but it doesn't tell me he isn't willing to pay, it's just saying he has a certain standard to live by. I don't agree with it, but I respect his right to hold that opinion.

Fretting over our ownership is just flat out silly IMO, it's like looking for fly **** in pepper.

Everybody's acting like we just hired Donnie and made him president and GM when that isn't even close to being the case.

graphic-er
06-25-2012, 11:35 PM
The whole RFA thing is stupid to me. DO you really overpay? No. Because if you want that player and are prepared to offer him a contract then you are obvious comfortable with that. Overpaying is a concept that is brought about by people outside of an organization.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2012, 11:36 PM
My initial reaction to this is I don't like it one bit.


Simon and Bird haven't had their meeting yet after "3 weeks". Seems odd to me no meeting, but Walsh is re-hired. What's the hold up? It's like Simon is treating Bird as an after thought.

Kid Minneapolis
06-25-2012, 11:39 PM
Are you suggesting I should be happy with a nice little team that plays hard and looks good, but can never really compete with the big boys? If so, then we may just be different types of fans. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. I actually enjoy watching a team learn and improve if I believe in where they are going. I'm more excited for this upcoming Colts season than any in the last 5 years. I believe in what they are doing. I don't believe in what the Pacers are selling. It kills me because I really, truly would like to. But I don't. This team, IMO, is fools gold. I would love to be wrong. The worst part is we likely won't know for sure for 2 - 3 more years.

We had one good season. We're not done yet. Man, people are impatient. One good season, and all of a sudden "championship or bust."

Y'all need to get out and do some yardwork or something. We just had a good playoff run for the first time in years, have a good young team, have made management improvements and player improvements, are positioned to further do so --- and all I read around here lately is how the FO is "messing everything up". Gotta be kiddin' me.

A front office that contains Larry Bird (the current Executive of the Year), Donnie Walsh (who needs no further introduction, he's one of the best of all time), and Kevin Pritchard is a pretty damn strong FO. Y'all should be thankful.

I got further advice for y'all --- don't get your hopes up about this draft class or this free agent class. It's weak, on both fronts. We're sort of handicapped on that alone. So I hope everyone doesn't **** and moan when the Pacers don't pull some mega-deal...

Trader Joe
06-25-2012, 11:41 PM
Yep Walsh is back and any mistake that is made from now on would be his fault once again.

Yes, Donnie Walsh is here just to be the guy that gets the pie in the face at the end of every Three Stooges Act.

You guys are over reacting, period. Why don't we see what happens on Thursday before acting like the world is doomed and Hibbert is already in a Rockets jersey.

Here's my guess Mitch Lawrence names George Hill as Donnie's top priority because he was writing a fluff piece and forgot about Hibbert.

rm1369
06-25-2012, 11:43 PM
This strikes me as a separate concern than who comes into the front office?

Me, personally... I still think the team is in the building phase, and hasn't actually had the chance to trade/deal from a position of strength. But I'm no more of a Nostradamus than you are. Shrug.

I just don't see what our team's long term potential has to do with a story about bringing Walsh in a supporting role.

In a couple of years of playoff mediocrity (once it happens), it would seem sensible to be frustrated by our team's water treading. However, we're not really at that place yet.

It's only relevant because several people keep reminding me how great the team is - therefore it can't be disfunctional. Otherwise I agree, it isnt really relevant. What is 100% completely relevant is Bird and DWs last stint together. Does anyone want to look at that history and tell me this a great idea? The team had absolutely no direction. I'm far from a Bird guy, but I'll take his single leadership over their combined leadership any day of the week. And yes I understand their roles have changed. That in itself does not usually lead to a healthy environment.

I'm sorry, IMO, this is an extremely stupid idea. As with everything else, we will just have to see how it plays out.

tadscout
06-25-2012, 11:45 PM
Yes, Donnie Walsh is here just to be the guy that gets the pie in the face at the end of every Three Stooges Act.

You guys are over reacting, period. Why don't we see what happens on Thursday before acting like the world is doomed and Hibbert is already in a Rockets jersey.

Here's my guess Mitch Lawrence names George Hill as Donnie's top priority because he was writing a fluff piece and forgot about Hibbert.

:kegboypreachit:

We just had our best season in years!
I'm getting tired of all the doom and gloom around here.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2012, 11:45 PM
We'll see how awesome it is if/when we pay Hill close to 9 or 10 million a year...


Yep, Walsh had a bad habit of overpaying Pacer players before. I bet Hill's agents eyes lit up with $ signs when he heard Walsh would be negoiating Hill's contract.

Trader Joe
06-25-2012, 11:46 PM
If you guys think Walsh will have the unilateral right to sign free agents without Bird/Pritchard's approval then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I can make you a real nice deal on. Everything in the New York Daily News is fact, and should be taken as fact, nothing is ever said or done via the media to bend or change the truth or it's perception.

Heck, Donnie himself said it best, "We are not trading Jalen Rose."

tadscout
06-25-2012, 11:52 PM
Yep, Walsh had a bad habit of overpaying Pacer players before. I bet Hill's agents eyes lit up with $ signs when he heard Walsh would be negoiating Hill's contract.

No where was the word negotiate. Difference between 'lead efforts' (be a front man), and having final say over negotiating.
What Trader Joe said, no way DW can just waltz in and have unchallenged control in signings.

naptownmenace
06-26-2012, 12:01 AM
I can't decide if I'm encouraged or concerned by this turn of events here.

I'm concerned but I'm willing to take a wait and see attitude towards it all.

We won't have to wait long because I have a feeling that all the big fish will make their decisions fairly quickly. I'm guessing that they know that they will match whatever offer Hibbert gets and they might already have some ideas of where some of the other free agents are interested in playing.

Justin Tyme
06-26-2012, 12:01 AM
[QUOTE=Trader Joe;1463011]
dle. Two months ago Bird was infallible, now he is part of the group that hires Walsh /QUOTE]


You got any proof Bird had anything to do with Walsh being hired? Sounds more like Simon did the hiring of Walsh as an old friend from loyalty.

tadscout
06-26-2012, 12:13 AM
You got any proof Bird had anything to do with Walsh being hired? Sounds more like Simon did the hiring of Walsh as an old friend from loyalty.

No way Bird agrees to come back if he doesn't want to work with DW. Therefore if Simon wants Bird back, he would have asked Bird first.

gummy
06-26-2012, 12:16 AM
My primary concerns basically boils down to: Why do we need so many high-powered cooks in the kitchen?

Bird, Pritchard, Morway (?), Walsh - sounds like enough expertise to spearhead two front offices and I do worry about potential accountability/chain of command of confusion along with with efficiency concerns (how many people will a decision need to go through and how long will that take?).

None of us know how it would all be structured, but if indeed we end up having 3 or more of these guys on board, someone needs to pay careful attention to detail when working out how each will function in order for this to be beneficial, imo.

Sollozzo
06-26-2012, 12:18 AM
Yep Walsh is back and any mistake that is made from now on would be his fault once again.


Look at the roster the Pacers had at the end of the 07-08 season (Walsh's last year) and look at it now. When you look at it that way, it's not very hard to see why people blame a lot on Walsh and at the same time have very high praise for Bird.

tadscout
06-26-2012, 12:26 AM
My primary concerns basically boils down to: Why do we need so many high-powered cooks in the kitchen?

Bird, Pritchard, Morway (?), Walsh - sounds like enough expertise to spearhead two front offices and I do worry about potential accountability/chain of command of confusion along with with efficiency concerns (how many people will a decision need to go through and how long will that take?).

None of us know how it would all be structured, but if indeed we end up having 3 or more of these guys on board, someone needs to pay careful attention to detail when working out how each will function in order for this to be beneficial, imo.

Read my post - http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?73311-NY-Daily-News-Walsh-is-officially-back-with-the-Pacers&p=1463004&viewfull=1#post1463004

We are doing nothing out of the norm... In Fact most if not all teams have at least three guys.

CJ Jones
06-26-2012, 01:33 AM
Totally disagree there are situations where RFA makes sense. Think about when a team is up versus the cap. There are times you don't overpay OJ Mayo for example is a RFA yet the Grizz can't afford him. The RFA thing isn't common sense it's plain stupid to hinder your team that way regardless if you ever plan to go after RFAs.

I think Bird is as pissed about it as some of us are. Why else would he announce it to the public? It only make our ownership look bad.

*astrisk*
06-26-2012, 01:36 AM
To me, Walsh's addition simply guarantees the end of Morway... Morway is a business man. His expertise was in contracts, not really basketball... That would explain why he is jumping all over contracts. (George Hill in particular)

It also probably signals an end to George Hill's tenure in Indiana as well. Makes sense, bring in the guy who has no emotional ties to GH and can play hard ball and let him hit the road. As RFA's go, what is there really to negotiate? Unless, you want to try and make him take a below market contract... And if you are George Hill, why even talk to Indy? These guys not only want to pay you less, but are openly looking to upgrade you through draft or FA...

Seems pretty obvious to me though, Bird will stay on for atleast three more seasons (A "Championship" 3-year Plan). Pritchard will help Larry oversee the personnel and scouting aspect of the franchise, while Donnie will help Larry oversee the business and contracts aspect...

I'm gonna guess by 4pm Tuesday, we will have a clear idea of the direction this franchise is headed in terms of the front office...

CableKC
06-26-2012, 01:38 AM
We should be worried about what a NY writer is reporting about us?

@ChrisMannixSI: Several league execs believe Indiana and Brooklyn will match any offers for Roy Hibbert/Brook Lopez

Calm down people.
With or without Walsh.....I was pretty sure that this was a given that we'd match any offer that Hibbert got....despite what Bird has said about MAX contracts.

Dr. Awesome
06-26-2012, 05:15 AM
Walsh and Bird seem to have a close relationship and worked very well together in the past, I'm not sure why everyone is up in arms over this.

Especially after the years Walsh has given us here. He is apart of Pacer basketball and I'm glad to hear that he will be returning. I think he is one of the few that can get through to Bird on some things. I feel like they balance each other well. I also think Walsh is willing to take steps to build a contender that I'm not sure Bird is - maybe that little voice in Birds head will help us out.

Roaming Gnome
06-26-2012, 06:09 AM
Well, we can take Larry Bird out of the equation of Walsh being here... Bye Bye Birdie :kickcan:

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 07:55 AM
:vaderno:

wintermute
06-26-2012, 08:33 AM
You got any proof Bird had anything to do with Walsh being hired? Sounds more like Simon did the hiring of Walsh as an old friend from loyalty.

Sounds like you hit it on the head JT. One wonders how much Walsh and Pritchard can work together when they were hired independently. Is it going to be another "you take the draft, I'll do FA" kind of deal? Because the results from the last 2-headed monster wasn't so hot.

90'sNBARocked
06-26-2012, 10:31 AM
I am glad to have Walsh back. He is well respected in the league and I think he did one hell of a job witht the Knicks taking them from utter purgatory to landing a prize FA , scaling back salary and moves like trading for T Mac to reduce salary.

I like the combination of Pritchard and Walsh and I for one, think we will be pleasently suprised

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 10:49 AM
What has Simon ever done to suggest that? I mean honestly? Who has he refused to pay? To me the RFA thing is a silly standard to have, but it doesn't tell me he isn't willing to pay, it's just saying he has a certain standard to live by. I don't agree with it, but I respect his right to hold that opinion.

Fretting over our ownership is just flat out silly IMO, it's like looking for fly **** in pepper.

Everybody's acting like we just hired Donnie and made him president and GM when that isn't even close to being the case.



we just did.....



:censored:

Trader Joe
06-26-2012, 11:39 AM
we just did.....



:censored:

Yeah...I guess I spoke too soon :shrug: Honestly, I wish the Pacers would just release a statement at this point. The cat is out of the bag, help us clear up this mess.

Ratking
06-26-2012, 11:58 AM
While all of this is a lot to digest, Im actually excited. Remember when Walsh constructed a team that was number 1 in the East?

Do people not trust him because he put together the team responsible for the Malace at the Palace? Its not like you can plan around a Ron Artest, and there was no way of knowing that Ron Artest was crazy enough to dismantle the team with his maniacal self-interest.

I think Walsh and Pritchard will make the right aggressive moves to get us in a place where we can compete with the Heat next year. Otherwise, we are the Atlanta Hawks for the next 4-5 seasons, and then what? To make the conference finals perennially and possibly overcome the Heat, we need to add swag and talent. The good guy-build from within routine has gotten us to number 3 in the East, but I trust Pritchard and Walsch to take us to the next level.

Im sure Bird agrees, and is looking forward to some much deserved rest with his loved ones. Buckle up for an exciting off-season, and one that might put us in the conversation of threatening the Heats dominance of the East for the next decade.

Hicks
06-26-2012, 12:02 PM
While all of this is a lot to digest, Im actually excited. Remember when Walsh constructed a team that was number 1 in the East?

Do people not trust him because he put together the team responsible for the Malace at the Palace? Its not like you can plan around a Ron Artest, and there was no way of knowing that Ron Artest was crazy enough to dismantle the team with his maniacal self-interest.

Oh, yes there was. People with knowledge of his time with the Bulls were warning us from day one, and most of us didn't listen. Apparently that includes our front office not listening.

Sandman21
06-26-2012, 12:03 PM
Jake Query ‏@jakequery

#Pritchard will be #Pacers GM, and will make personnel decisions. Walsh will assist in those decisions and oversee salaries.
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Jeremy
06-26-2012, 12:08 PM
Or they plan to let him walk?
If he gets a max offer then probably. He's not a max player.

Jeremy
06-26-2012, 12:09 PM
Jake Query ‏@jakequery

#Pritchard will be #Pacers GM, and will make personnel decisions. Walsh will assist in those decisions and oversee salaries.
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Ratking
06-26-2012, 12:12 PM
Oh, yes there was. People with knowledge of his time with the Bulls were warning us from day one, and most of us didn't listen. Apparently that includes our front office not listening.

Thanks for this. Im not as familiar with Artest's behavior with the Bulls, except for a story about him getting wasted at half-time one game, or something like that. I think a lot of great teams need that bit of crazy, though, and Walsh might have underestimated just what that crazy might do. It certainly got us to be a title contender...but then it exploded. I trust Walsh has learned from that. The Malace at the Palace was a perfect storm of stupid decisions. I wont put all the blame on Walsh.

gummy
06-26-2012, 01:05 PM
Read my post - http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?73311-NY-Daily-News-Walsh-is-officially-back-with-the-Pacers&p=1463004&viewfull=1#post1463004

We are doing nothing out of the norm... In Fact most if not all teams have at least three guys.

At least three guys? Yes. At least three guys of that caliber, most of whom have been the top dog at some point? Less common.

Not that it matters, apparently, as it seems we are only getting two of those four.

pacerDU
06-26-2012, 02:10 PM
I'm constantly surprised at the disdain for DW as a GM. The Pacers, during his reign, were one of the winning-est franchises in the league - look it up. No, they didn't win it all but only 9 franchises have won a title in the last 30 years.

He created a team that went to 5 conference finals appearances in the 90's, culminating in a finals appearance in 2000. The team was then completely rebuilt after that (without missing the playoffs at all) and won 61 games in 03-04. That speed of rebuild is almost unheard of, especially for a small-market franchise.

He traded Mark Jackson for Jalen Rose, then turned around the next year and got him back for peanuts. He traded Dale Davis (who is one of my all-time favs), for Jermaine O'Neal, who finished 3rd in MVP votes in 03-04. The Brawl messed everything up, but how can he be blamed for that?? People and players make their own decisions and that night was a "perfect storm".

I'm really sad to see Larry go. Really sad. But I feel like with DW and Pritchard at the helm, things are looking really positive. DW is very savvy and Pritchard is quite aggressive. It'll be exciting guys.

Speed
06-26-2012, 02:22 PM
If he gets a max offer then probably. He's not a max player.

What did Marc Gasol get last year, I'd guess thats what Roy is getting or at least his agent is asking for. It was really close to max, if I remember right. Good True Centers are rare and therefore valuable.

4 yrs 57 million, is what Shamsports says, yikes, don't do the math, i'm warning you.

DrFife
06-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Pritchard will be #Pacers GM, and will make personnel decisions. Walsh will assist in those decisions and oversee salaries.

This is what I've been hoping for (since hearing the Larry/DW news). Even if Donnie re-assumes his role as President, I hope (and assume) that it'll be more of an oversight role with KP steering the ship. Color me the sunshiner, but I'm rather enthusiastic about this pairing. :sunshine:

pacer4ever
06-26-2012, 02:58 PM
Jake Query ‏@jakequery

#Pritchard will be #Pacers GM, and will make personnel decisions. Walsh will assist in those decisions and oversee salaries.
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Mike Wells is saying Walsh will be the president and have final say. I will go with Wells word I hope it isn't true. I hope to god Walsh isn't president with KP as the GM.

Sollozzo
06-26-2012, 04:50 PM
Mike Wells is saying Walsh will be the president and have final say. I will go with Wells word I hope it isn't true. I hope to god Walsh isn't president with KP as the GM.


This is a horrible day if that is indeed true.

BlueNGold
06-26-2012, 05:21 PM
I tend to wonder if this means Larry's days are numbered. He brings in Pritchard and maybe Walsh to ease the transition for the Simons. Hmmm.

Honestly I had no inside info. It appears a little common sense is all that was needed...