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View Full Version : I've got a really bad feeling about this (Walsh may be back to the Pacer per todays star)



Peck
06-23-2012, 02:54 AM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2012/06/22/pacers-a-return-of-donnie-walsh/

Pacers: A return of Donnie Walsh?

There’s a possibility that former CEO Donnie Walsh will return to the franchise in some capacity, multiple sources told The Star.

It’s uncertain what role Walsh will play with the franchise.

That question should be answered next week when team owner Herb Simon returns to Indianapolis for meetings to help clear up the team’s murky front office situation.

Larry Bird talked like he wants to remain as president during his season-ending press conference last month as long as his meeting with Simon went well.

Bird wants Kevin Pritchard, the team’s director of player personnel, to be his new general manager.

David Morway, who was the team’s general manager, hasn’t been around the team in more than two weeks.

Walsh has attended some of the Pacers predraft workouts at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, according to sources.

Simon has always respected Walsh, who spent 24 years with the Pacers and was running the team during its run to the NBA Finals in 2000.

Walsh, 71, left the Pacers in the spring of 2008 to become president of basketball operations of the New York Knicks. He got the Knicks in the financial position to make a run at big-name free agents in the summer of 2010.

Walsh sat out last season, but it was no secret that the self-proclaimed workaholic, would return to the NBA at some point as long as he was healthy.

Are you in favor of Walsh returning to the Pacers?

================================================== ===========
I have had this nagging feeling since the entire Pritchard/Morway thing went down that something was going to happen. When the meeting between Walsh & Bird got moved back a week I really started to have doubts.

Now the star is reporting this?

Um, no thank you.

I've been somewhat of a Morway supporter over the years because I am still in awe of his giant trade exemption he got for Peja and because I kind of knew how he felt about Satan as our coach, but honestly if the price for keeping him is losing both Bird/Pritchard and the return of Ole Buggeyes? Well David it's been nice having you on the team.

The last thing I want to hear right now is a lecture about how we need to build this team over the next few seasons. We are not near a title contender but we are not a scrub team either. The time to strike is now, not another 3 year plan. We need to use the space we have to make bold moves to get over the top.

I trust Bird to do that, frankly I also trust Morway to do that.

I do NOT trust Walsh to do that.

If we are just bringing him back and still having Bird here I ask, why? The franchise is money poor and we are very top heavy as it is.

Can not say that I was thrilled to read this.

vnzla81
06-23-2012, 03:58 AM
Dale Davis?

able
06-23-2012, 04:49 AM
Considering that earlier articles said that Morway was a Simon favourite (and that he was mostly in the seat next to Simon when he was in Indy) this may be his way(Simon) of keeping tabs on Bird, if Morway is worked out the way it is happening and simon is less than thrilled with that, pulling in Donnie to "keep an eye on things" would not be a weird decision, they go back a lot further than current management and no matter what some of you tihnk or say as a NBA CEO DW has been very successfull as has his stint with NY proven if that was ever in need of proof.

I would not be surprised it would be Simon's answer to Bird's strategy.

presto123
06-23-2012, 05:19 AM
Just retire already.

Chuck Chillout
06-23-2012, 06:58 AM
Dale Davis?

Just as possible this is part of a continuity plan. Walsh was here to transition Bird into his current role before leaving for the Knicks; as Bird exits over the next year or three, Walsh could be in place to take over leadership from Bird.

Some of Walsh's moves in the early'00's left a bad taste, but of the two, Walsh is the one with the track record of building a team that made it to the Finals. Pilfering Jackson and Rose are just 2 examples. After the Finals run, Walsh was still making bold moves, like vnzla mentioned, to set up another run at the title.

I agree this is the time to push our chips to the middle of the table and make "the" move, or moves. Bird's done a helluva job rebuilding, but we're going to have to be really savvy to be competitive with the Heat, Thunder, and Bulls, because we're not in their class right now. Walsh, even with his past missteps, is a really savvy exec.

iogyhufi
06-23-2012, 09:00 AM
Just as possible this is part of a continuity plan. Walsh was here to transition Bird into his current role before leaving for the Knicks; as Bird exits over the next year or three, Walsh could be in place to take over leadership from Bird.

Some of Walsh's moves in the early'00's left a bad taste, but of the two, Walsh is the one with the track record of building a team that made it to the Finals. Pilfering Jackson and Rose are just 2 examples. After the Finals run, Walsh was still making bold moves, like vnzla mentioned, to set up another run at the title.

I agree this is the time to push our chips to the middle of the table and make "the" move, or moves. Bird's done a helluva job rebuilding, but we're going to have to be really savvy to be competitive with the Heat, Thunder, and Bulls, because we're not in their class right now. Walsh, even with his past missteps, is a really savvy exec.

I have no clue why the Pacers would do that. I mean, Walsh is older than James Naismith. He's gonna be on his way out of the league soon. I would bet that if Walsh comes back, the plan is to give Pritchard another exec to learn from. Because Walsh isn't the long term solution.

Roaming Gnome
06-23-2012, 09:05 AM
F*%k :kickcan:

rm1369
06-23-2012, 09:08 AM
I don't particularly want DW back, but I'm curious as to why anyone would have confidence that Bird will make a "bold move?" He has built this team as conservatively as possible and has already said they won't be going after any top free agents. I have less confidence in a "bold move" from Bird than DW. DW was certainly conservative as well, but there are a few transactions you can point to with him. I can't think of any with Bird. Maybe having Pritchard as part of the equation ups the chance with Bird here? Regardless, however it shakes out, I definitely don't want both of them here. The combination of the two equated to a rudderless ship and nearly destroyed the franchise.

bballpacen
06-23-2012, 09:20 AM
If DW is back in any capacity more than adviser, then I am 100% against this move, if he is back as an adviser, then I am 50% against it...

Sparhawk
06-23-2012, 09:25 AM
Hey Walsh, retired already.

Chuck Chillout
06-23-2012, 09:35 AM
He's 71. Jerry West is 74 and Pat Riley is 67- 71 isn't an obstacle in a leadership role. You'd certainly expect he wouldn't be doing the same work as a Pritchard or even a Morway, but for someone to set direction and strategy for the franchise, you could do much, much worse than Walsh. I'd be glad to see him back in some role.

xBulletproof
06-23-2012, 09:38 AM
Considering that earlier articles said that Morway was a Simon favourite (and that he was mostly in the seat next to Simon when he was in Indy) this may be his way(Simon) of keeping tabs on Bird, if Morway is worked out the way it is happening and simon is less than thrilled with that, pulling in Donnie to "keep an eye on things" would not be a weird decision, they go back a lot further than current management and no matter what some of you tihnk or say as a NBA CEO DW has been very successfull as has his stint with NY proven if that was ever in need of proof.

I would not be surprised it would be Simon's answer to Bird's strategy.

Is there anything you couldn't interject your Bird hate into? The Executive of the Year needs a babysitter, really? I severely doubt Bird is the sneaky kind of person that needs something like that. If Simon wants to know something, he could probably ... I don't know .... call and ask.

Besides that as someone who's been over several people at a job, if I felt I needed to hire a babysitter, I wouldn't have that person working for me. Pretty simple.

imawhat
06-23-2012, 09:54 AM
Worst Pacers news since?

Pacers13Colts12
06-23-2012, 10:16 AM
Sometimes I think Simon would rather the team just be a playoff team than ever make a move for a championship.

Granville
06-23-2012, 10:19 AM
This doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Walsh still lives in Indy, has a relationship with Bird and Simon, and isn't ready to retire. I'm guessing it is simply as an advisor, which can't hurt. Bird knows he's been at some of the workouts. If he was there because he was becoming president again, or because he was taking some of Bird's powers, I'm sure Bird would have already quit (or taken the rumored Orlando offer).

speakout4
06-23-2012, 10:19 AM
Simon is just giving Walsh a job IMO to keep him busy and make him think he's still useful. This is Simon's way of saying thanks for all the years of service. I sincerely doubt that Donnie is going to have much say in really important decisions and Donnie is not likely to rock the boat either.

Nothing at all to worry about.

J7F
06-23-2012, 10:36 AM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/reggie-miller-25th-anniversary-1987-draft

For you conspiracy theorists check out this article from pacers.com...

I opened it thinking I would read about Reggie and then Walsh was mentioned like crazy...

BringJackBack
06-23-2012, 10:41 AM
Who knows... maybe Walsh will come in and help. I mean shoot, that would be a real three headed monster in the front office. Bird being executive of the year, Walsh being responsible for the great 90's teams, and Pritchard with his great abilities to Pritch slap other GMs...

Unclebuck
06-23-2012, 10:51 AM
Two things.

Lets see if he is hired by the Pacers. Second let's see what his role actually is.

I suspect he'd be a consultant, third in line behind Bird And Prichard

5_7_Clash
06-23-2012, 10:52 AM
:onozomg::onozomg:

We don't even know what position or responsibilities he would hold (if he actually comes back at all). He's not going to be the Pres. of Basketball Operations, General Manager, or owner of the team so anything else is advisory, IMO.
And even if he does come back, Walsh has meant a lot to this organization and has been one of the most highly respected GM's in this league. I'd be honored to have him retire with the Pacers.

tadscout
06-23-2012, 11:17 AM
What I said last night in another thread -

I can only see DW being here as a consultant. Bird would leave before having to share the decision making again with DW- and no one would take power from the reigning executive of the year.

Remember Bird brought Pritchard in b/c he enjoys picking basketball minds and opinions. DW would just be another brain to pick.

Only seems like Herb granting DW a favor to stay close to the game he loves as he ages...
----

Welcome to Pacers Digest, where over reacting happens.

Justin Tyme
06-23-2012, 11:18 AM
the two equated to a rudderless ship and nearly destroyed the franchise.


A 2 headed monster again just ain't go'n to cut it.

I've had a bad feeling about this FO situation with the continued pushing back of Bird and Simon's meeting. Then to read Walsh has been at BLF watching workouts doesn't bode well with me. I DO NOT WANT WALSH BACK WITH THE PACERS PERIOD!!!!!! The thoought alone makes me absolutely ill.

I'm not by any stretch a Bird the FO guy, but I'll take BIRD 100 times over Walsh. That right there says how much I don't want Walsh back.

If Simon brings back Walsh to run the Pacers, I will absolutely go PFFL!

Brad8888
06-23-2012, 11:21 AM
If it is true that Bird is about to have back surgery, Walsh would be someone who could act in a way that Simon would want while Bird is recovering and then possibly fall back into more of a consulting role once Bird returns, assuming Bird is returning.

Justin Tyme
06-23-2012, 11:42 AM
If it is true that Bird is about to have back surgery, Walsh would be someone who could act in a way that Simon would want while Bird is recovering and then possibly fall back into more of a consulting role once Bird returns, assuming Bird is returning.


Pritchard should be more than capable of handling the situation during Bird's op n re-coup time. No need for Walsh.

PR07
06-23-2012, 11:43 AM
I appreciate what Donnie Walsh has done for the franchise, but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a consultant's role.

Hicks
06-23-2012, 12:00 PM
This doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Walsh still lives in Indy, has a relationship with Bird and Simon, and isn't ready to retire. I'm guessing it is simply as an advisor, which can't hurt. Bird knows he's been at some of the workouts. If he was there because he was becoming president again, or because he was taking some of Bird's powers, I'm sure Bird would have already quit (or taken the rumored Orlando offer).

This is about how I feel as well. My only concern is the possibility that Walsh will have differing opinions than Bird or Pritchard too often or too strongly. At first, the idea of having conflicting views sounds like a good thing, and it can be, to a point (when it keeps everyone honest and from making too big of a leap of faith in a draft pick or trade or free agent signing).

But the flip side of that, the negative potential of this scenario, is the potential for having a team with no clear direction. A team that, after a given series of roster changes, may become incoherent due to being forged from conflicting philosophies and ideas.

I'm more comfortable with the front office being mostly/more or less on the same page philosophically, working together to build a certain style of team to be the best it can be within that given style. If Bird and Walsh are too far apart on that philosophy, I fear a Frankenstein roster with too many pieces that don't really fit together.

So if Walsh staying around merely keeps us from doing anything too rash, well, I suppose that's good. But if it leads to a mess of a roster? A wasted cycle of rebuilding, forcing yet another one to follow to clean it up again.

tadscout
06-23-2012, 12:18 PM
This is about how I feel as well. My only concern is the possibility that Walsh will have differing opinions than Bird or Pritchard too often or too strongly. At first, the idea of having conflicting views sounds like a good thing, and it can be, to a point (when it keeps everyone honest and from making too big of a leap of faith in a draft pick or trade or free agent signing).

But the flip side of that, the negative potential of this scenario, is the potential for having a team with no clear direction. A team that, after a given series of roster changes, may become incoherent due to being forged from conflicting philosophies and ideas.

I'm more comfortable with the front office being mostly/more or less on the same page philosophically, working together to build a certain style of team to be the best it can be within that given style. If Bird and Walsh are too far apart on that philosophy, I fear a Frankenstein roster with too many pieces that don't really fit together.

So if Walsh staying around merely keeps us from doing anything too rash, well, I suppose that's good. But if it leads to a mess of a roster? A wasted cycle of rebuilding, forcing yet another one to follow to clean it up again.

Most likely he would just be here as a consultant/ 3rd in line guy... He wouldn't have the power to to trump Bird in any way. Fairly confident he would be just here as an extra brain to pick. (Bird likes doing that, and normally he still goes his own way, for example drafting.)

vnzla81
06-23-2012, 01:06 PM
Hey at least Bird is going have another person that could possibly be an "scape goat" right? If something doesn't work out we can blame Walsh or Pritchard.

imawhat
06-23-2012, 01:57 PM
This thing wasn't working until Walsh was gone and that's because he had more authority and different opinions about the direction of the franchise than Bird.

Organizational dynamics are complicated, and in my experience it's very common to revert to the old dynamic regardless of new title or role. What I'm saying is Simon may have the utmost respect and more faith in Walsh than Bird, which means Bird's input could be overriden if Walsh is opposed to it.

There are a lot of ifs in there, but I've seen clearly superior decisions overridden by clearly terrible decisions based on history alone, and I've seen it happen several times.

That's why I have concern.

Kid Minneapolis
06-23-2012, 02:02 PM
Wow. Lotta hate for a guy who was one of the most influential and beneficial people in this franchise's history.

Why would you not want Walsh back; he's one of the best managerial minds in NBA history. His lone big mistake in Indy was bringing Isiah on board. Ironically, it was Isiah's mess in New York that was cleaned up by none other than Walsh, and that was no small mess.

Why you guys wouldn't want him back in some consultant role is beyond me... but that's why y'all aren't runnin' the team.... lol.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Hicks
06-23-2012, 02:09 PM
Hey at least Bird is going have another person that could possibly be an "scape goat" right? If something doesn't work out we can blame Walsh or Pritchard.

I'm still waiting for people to turn their hatred towards Herb Simon (in particular) and Donnie Walsh for allowing this fool to stay around for so long, endorse him, and not get rid of him. And if this is true, return to work with him yet again.

Peck
06-23-2012, 02:23 PM
I'm still waiting for people to turn their hatred towards Herb Simon (in particular) and Donnie Walsh for allowing this fool to stay around for so long, endorse him, and not get rid of him. And if this is true, return to work with him yet again.

True, just like at one point in time I had to decide that both Bird & Simon were at fault for keeping O'Brien around to long. I mean at some point if you are so opposed to something don't you also have to start faulting the source that allows them to continue?

Peck
06-23-2012, 02:25 PM
Wow. Lotta hate for a guy who was one of the most influential and beneficial people in this franchise's history.

Why would you not want Walsh back; he's one of the best managerial minds in NBA history. His lone big mistake in Indy was bringing Isiah on board. Ironically, it was Isiah's mess in New York that was cleaned up by none other than Walsh, and that was no small mess.

Why you guys wouldn't want him back in some consultant role is beyond me... but that's why y'all aren't runnin' the team.... lol.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

I don't want to go into another all out Walsh War with people but I can't just let that statement go by without saying that I strongly adamantly disagree. Hell Walsh himself would disagree with that statement and even has in the press. Does the phrase "we fell in love with talent" sound familiar?

rm1369
06-23-2012, 03:22 PM
Does the phrase "we fell in love with talent" sound familiar?

It's funny that I have the least issue with that "mistake". IMO, this franchises primary issue has been its conservativness. I'm not going to complain about the one time I believe they tried to do more than just make the playoffs. Now, once it became obvious it wouldn't work, I do have issues with their reluctance to move on, but that gets into the "two headed monster" era that nearly everyone agrees was a disaster.

Peck
06-23-2012, 04:14 PM
It's funny that I have the least issue with that "mistake". IMO, this franchises primary issue has been its conservativness. I'm not going to complain about the one time I believe they tried to do more than just make the playoffs. Now, once it became obvious it wouldn't work, I do have issues with their reluctance to move on, but that gets into the "two headed monster" era that nearly everyone agrees was a disaster.

Believe it or not I agree with you. I just was using that as an example of a time when Donnie himself admitted he made a mistake.

NapTonius Monk
06-23-2012, 05:00 PM
What's with the 'sky is falling' response towards bringing back Donnie? It's almost like he was the picture of incompetence while he was here.

vapacersfan
06-23-2012, 05:03 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what is the we fell in love with talent comment?

Is that in regards to Artest?

__________

RM, I have felt that way for years. I hate how long we stuck with Artest (I assume that tit is what Peck is talking about) after all the BS, but I liked that we were aggressive and took a chance. Sometimes I feel like Indiana is reluctant to be aggressive, for whatever reason (small market, owner, money, etc) and it sucks the one time they were it bit them in the *** majorly.

I hope its not another 25 years before the franchise takes a risk.

Sandman21
06-23-2012, 06:15 PM
:vaderno:

Kid Minneapolis
06-24-2012, 12:35 AM
I don't want to go into another all out Walsh War with people but I can't just let that statement go by without saying that I strongly adamantly disagree. Hell Walsh himself would disagree with that statement and even has in the press. Does the phrase "we fell in love with talent" sound familiar?

What statement? Walsh would disagree that he ran this franchise with great success for over two decades?

I don't get it. People should have a lot more respect for Walsh around here... same for Bill Polian. Both guys ran Indy clubs with great success. Just because their terms didn't end on great terms doesn't diminish their contributions or their ability.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

McKeyFan
06-24-2012, 07:34 AM
I don't get it. People should have a lot more respect for Walsh around here...
I can respect the greatness of my 1990 Corvette even though we parted on bad terms at 225,000 miles. But I don't want to purchase it again.

DrFife
06-24-2012, 09:55 AM
:laugh:

I walked by a late-model twin-turbo Lingenfelter 'vette parked at Bella Vita just last night. (I own an '89 Mustang convertible with a 347 and thus have respect but not affection for Corvettes, but last night I literally got down on my knees and bowed.)

My point is that sometimes there are nice ways to "upgrade" good stuff from the past. Beyond just another pair of eyes & brain to pick, PERHAPS Donnie could be the "phone guy." Many here have speculated that Larry may be too gruff to be a good negotiator. Kevin Pritchard may be fantastic at identifying quick-strike deals, but may not have the popularity to bring slow-cook deals to completion. The nuanced approach may be a needed role for Donnie to play.

(Not that twin-turbos are "nuanced" in any way. :cool:)

Justin Tyme
06-24-2012, 12:15 PM
:laugh:

I walked by a late-model twin-turbo Lingenfelter 'vette parked at Bella Vita just last night. (I own an '89 Mustang convertible with a 347 and thus have respect but not affection for Corvettes, but last night I literally got down on my knees and bowed.)

My point is that sometimes there are nice ways to "upgrade" good stuff from the past. Beyond just another pair of eyes & brain to pick, PERHAPS Donnie could be the "phone guy." Many here have speculated that Larry may be too gruff to be a good negotiator. Kevin Pritchard may be fantastic at identifying quick-strike deals, but may not have the popularity to bring slow-cook deals to completion. The nuanced approach may be a needed role for Donnie to play.

(Not that twin-turbos are "nuanced" in any way. :cool:)


I got the impression that Morway was the person who had contact with other clubs putting deals together, and not Bird.

Point in case, the failed Mayo deal where Morway tried adding Rush to the deal.

I've read numerous times Morway was given big credit for the success of the Pacers by other teams FO. This insinuates that Morway was the person talking to other teams, and not Bird.

I see NO need to have Walsh, and having Bird constantly looking over his shoulder with Walsh bending Herb's ear on Bird's decisions. If Herb doesn't have faith in Bird's drcisions and abilities, then he needs to replace Bird not have Walsh bird dogging Bird's moves. That's an awkward situation and one that would be hard to work under. It reminds me of Paul Allen's situation with past GM's in Portland.

Evan_The_Dude
06-24-2012, 12:24 PM
At this point I'm going to sit back and assume all the brains that make this team work know what they're doing. I'm going to make the assumption that they know we're only a couple of pieces away from being a championship contending team, so pieces are being put in place to be able to get us the players we need. Smart move if you ask me.

If what Kravitz said is true, and Bird asked for permission to spend then I'm going to guess that bringing in extra help in Pritchard and Walsh is part of making sure what we do is done right. Yes Donnie spent money that he shouldn't have, we have to remember the last time we were championship contenders was when Donnie made it possible by bringing in the players to make it happen. In a consultant role, why wouldn't you want him?

Bball
06-24-2012, 02:24 PM
Too many chefs spoil the soup....
There's a reason that statement exists.

For a supposed cash-strapped team WTF are they thinking adding someone to the front office? If you don't have faith in the existing brain trust, then just friggin' replace them all with someone you do have trust in. Cut the fat, don't add to it! If you're just shelling out positions as some kind of gold watch reward then quit asking taxpayers to fund the team.

Does Simon want a championship contending team, a competitive team with no shot at a championship but paying positions for several friends, or even just a seat at the table of major league billionaire sports team owners?

And did he not notice how much Walsh screwed the pooch and about ran the team in the ground?

iogyhufi
06-24-2012, 02:30 PM
Too many chefs spoil the soup....
There's a reason that statement exists.

For a supposed cash-strapped team WTF are they thinking adding someone to the front office? If you don't have faith in the existing brain trust, then just friggin' replace them all with someone you do have trust in. Cut the fat, don't add to it! If you're just shelling out positions as some kind of gold watch reward then quit asking taxpayers to fund the team.

Does Simon want a championship contending team, a competitive team with no shot at a championship but paying positions for several friends, or even just a seat at the table of major league billionaire sports team owners?

And did he not notice how much Walsh screwed the pooch and about ran the team in the ground?

Did he notice how Walsh went against popular opinion and drafted a HOF shooting guard?

OlBlu
06-24-2012, 02:32 PM
They aren't adding anything. Morway is gone. Walsh will replace him and add another very good basketball mind to the trust. It may not even be possible to build a championship contending team in Indy. It was only done once in the 45 or so years........:cool:

Bball
06-24-2012, 02:47 PM
Did he notice how Walsh went against popular opinion and drafted a HOF shooting guard?

Popular opinion of who.... Some IU fans or NBA franchise braintrusts? ....Cuz it looks to me like for going against 'popular opinion' several other NBA personnel guys must've done the same thing. ...Leading me to wonder just how much that popular opinion had anything to do with the NBA?

Bball
06-24-2012, 02:57 PM
They aren't adding anything. Morway is gone. :cool:

They don't need 3 people in the front office doing the job that 1 or 2 should be doing. With Pritchard onboard then Morway SHOULD be gone... simply because 2 is plenty. You shouldn't need to replace someone in a situation that's too crowded as it is. If there should be any question it should be why Pritchard was added to a front office that already had Bird and Morway. And for a cash strapped team you should be wondering why you even need 2 people doing a job that 1 person could do. If you do need 2 people, then quite possibly one or both aren't actually qualified for the job they have. And you certainly don't need a third voice in there, let alone when you consider the owner would always be a fourth voice in the mix anyway.

clownskull
06-24-2012, 03:15 PM
Popular opinion of who.... Some IU fans or NBA franchise braintrusts? ....Cuz it looks to me like for going against 'popular opinion' several other NBA personnel guys must've done the same thing. ...Leading me to wonder just how much that popular opinion had anything to do with the NBA?

yeah, that issue has been so overblown it is ridiculous. the only time i hear about all the pressure there was to draft steve is from national media types who may pay a sliver of attention to the pacers when they write about reggie once every 2-3 years or more. it really wasn't as big as they try to make it out to be.

Peck
06-24-2012, 03:24 PM
The man made his early reputation based on doing what every single other GM in the NBA did, pass on Steve Alford in the first round.

Yes there were local loud IU fans who were upset but anybody and I mean anybody who had ever watched more than 2 NBA games knew that his game did not translate into the pro's.

speakout4
06-24-2012, 05:02 PM
Who knows what Donnie will actually do. His job may be to put people in the seats or some other job that doesn't involve player personnel. Bird is just too independent to tolerate anyone who may challenge his opinions so Simon knows that he would lose Bird if that were to happen.

I don't see Donnie making big bucks either because he is not going to be a #3 guy.

OlBlu
06-24-2012, 05:18 PM
They don't need 3 people in the front office doing the job that 1 or 2 should be doing. With Pritchard onboard then Morway SHOULD be gone... simply because 2 is plenty. You shouldn't need to replace someone in a situation that's too crowded as it is. If there should be any question it should be why Pritchard was added to a front office that already had Bird and Morway. And for a cash strapped team you should be wondering why you even need 2 people doing a job that 1 person could do. If you do need 2 people, then quite possibly one or both aren't actually qualified for the job they have. And you certainly don't need a third voice in there, let alone when you consider the owner would always be a fourth voice in the mix anyway.

Do you actually believe that crap? Walsh is a respected expert and they should bring him on to give his opinion. That is a drop in the bucket compared to what blowing a draft pick would cost the Pacers....... Hell, you could hire 10 of Donnie Walsh if it would keep that from happening.....:cool:

Bball
06-24-2012, 05:36 PM
I believe Donnie Walsh jumped the shark back in the 90's. So the 2012 version of Donnie Walsh is not someone whose opinion I'd give much weight at all. More noise than signal at this point.

The best thing Walsh could do for the Pacers would be go to work in the front office of the Bulls or Heat.

Justin Tyme
06-24-2012, 08:05 PM
LOL! Some must have selective memories about Walsh. Let's take a stroll down memory lane the last # years of Walsh's leadership.

Traded Artest for a "half year rental" of Peja.

Traded Harrington for non-milk drinker Stephen Jackson. How did that workout?

Morway turned the Hornet signing of Peja into a 7.5 TE, not Walsh. Walsh dropped the ball that Morway scored with.

Brought back Harrington as a half year rental with the 7.5 TE from Peja.

Traded the 07 pick to Atlanta in a separate deal to get Harrington back. In the same deal, they took James Edwards back then cut him with his 1 mil contract. All to get Harrington back who was a JO friend. Walsh envisioned them playing together, but they couldn't. You'd have thought Walsh would have known this from the 1st time Harrington was a Pacer!

Walsh then trades Harrington and Jackson to GS for Murphy and Dunlevey with their albatross contracts that put the Pacers in cap hell for 3.5 years. That deal earned Chris Mullins Exec of the Year Award.

With the Pacers in poor shape, Walsh bails to retire only to go to the Knicks.

I'm not even going to go into the contracts Walsh gave Tinsley, Bender, or JO. Nor the trading AD for Bender.

AND you wonder why some don't want to bring back Walsh? LOL!

Eleazar
06-24-2012, 11:02 PM
LOL! Some must have selective memories about Walsh. Let's take a stroll down memory lane the last # years of Walsh's leadership.

Traded Artest for a "half year rental" of Peja.

Traded Harrington for non-milk drinker Stephen Jackson. How did that workout?

Morway turned the Hornet signing of Peja into a 7.5 TE, not Walsh. Walsh dropped the ball that Morway scored with.

Brought back Harrington as a half year rental with the 7.5 TE from Peja.

Traded the 07 pick to Atlanta in a separate deal to get Harrington back. In the same deal, they took James Edwards back then cut him with his 1 mil contract. All to get Harrington back who was a JO friend. Walsh envisioned them playing together, but they couldn't. You'd have thought Walsh would have known this from the 1st time Harrington was a Pacer!

Walsh then trades Harrington and Jackson to GS for Murphy and Dunlevey with their albatross contracts that put the Pacers in cap hell for 3.5 years. That deal earned Chris Mullins Exec of the Year Award.

With the Pacers in poor shape, Walsh bails to retire only to go to the Knicks.

I'm not even going to go into the contracts Walsh gave Tinsley, Bender, or JO. Nor the trading AD for Bender.

AND you wonder why some don't want to bring back Walsh? LOL!

Let's not forget who was sitting right next to Walsh during that period of time, Larry Bird.

By the way, nice use of selective memory.



Anyways, as long as Walsh isn't coming back as the head dog I would be fine with him coming back. I do think he is past his prime, and at his age it isn't smart to make him the top dog.

Bball
06-24-2012, 11:47 PM
You cannot reasonably expect to bring a former top dog manager back as glorified front office mascot. He will cast a large shadow, even if he doesn't intend to... And will invariably have differences of opinion that will create (more) dysfunction in the front office and at best muddy the waters and hamper efficiency.

As for the comment about Bird sitting beside Walsh as the front office blunders accumulated that only leads to this question- 'And the team wants that band to get back together'?

Kid Minneapolis
06-25-2012, 12:36 AM
Seriously guys, like we don't know that things didn't go south, but to sit here and blame it all on Donnie is just not correct. The tailspin set forth the night of The Brawl ended a lot of great careers here in Indiana, but the good folks went on to have great contributions in other places... Carlisle in Dallas, Mike Brown whether you appreciate him or not, and Donnie worked small miracles in NY (it's largely his cap work that allowed NY to go out and get Carmelo and Amar'e). We had some great minds here that were shoo'd off by the antics of Artest and Co.

Donnie has a wealth of NBA knowledge, and we'd be stupid to turn away his services. I don't think anyone is saying bring him in to replace Bird. There is no doubt in my mind that he's still one of the best in the business, and while he needed a change of scenery, I'm sure he'd do just fine comin' back here and giving some input. The only reason he's not in NY still is because their owner Dolan makes some WTF decisions.

Anyway, big time selective memory by a lot of people here... it's disrespectful the way people dog him for what that man did for this franchise for as long as he did.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2012, 11:48 AM
By the way, nice use of selective memory.


If my memory serves me correctly, Walsh was in power, and made the final decisions. The buck stopped at his desk. The Simons let Walsh run the Pacers not Bird or Morway.

vnzla81
06-25-2012, 11:55 AM
I don't want to go into another all out Walsh War with people but I can't just let that statement go by without saying that I strongly adamantly disagree. Hell Walsh himself would disagree with that statement and even has in the press. Does the phrase "we fell in love with talent" sound familiar?

Wow what a combination we had(or will have) one falls in love with talent and the other one falls in love with untalented players so he can prove people wrong great....

Justin Tyme
06-25-2012, 12:18 PM
Anyway, big time selective memory by a lot of people here... it's disrespectful the way people dog him for what that man did for this franchise for as long as he did.


I just showed why SOME don't feel it's a wise move to bring Walsh back. Needless, to say his later years weren't as good as his earlier years. Not saying he didn't make the Pacers into a great franchise, but saying he got stale and was at the helm when bad decisions were made. He left this franchise in a mess to supposedly RETIRE. Why does Bird want or need Walsh looking over his shoulder reporting back to Herb? Bird doesn't deserve to be put in that situation. AND this comes from someone who isn't a Bird the FO guy fan.

As stated b4, too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the pot. No need to go back to having that situation again, and some of us don't want to see it again. Either the Exec of the Year is doing a good job or isn't. If not, then get rid of him. If he is, he doesn't need Walsh's help. It's just that simple.

There are a lot of IU and Purdue fans on this forum and few can disagree that both Knight and Keady didn't get stale and their later teams weren't the quality of their earlier teams. It was time for change for IU and Purdue. Both have survived and so will the Pacers w/o Walsh's imput in the Pacers organization.

Speed
06-25-2012, 12:26 PM
LOL! Some must have selective memories about Walsh. Let's take a stroll down memory lane the last # years of Walsh's leadership.

Traded Artest for a "half year rental" of Peja.

Traded Harrington for non-milk drinker Stephen Jackson. How did that workout?

Morway turned the Hornet signing of Peja into a 7.5 TE, not Walsh. Walsh dropped the ball that Morway scored with.

Brought back Harrington as a half year rental with the 7.5 TE from Peja.

Traded the 07 pick to Atlanta in a separate deal to get Harrington back. In the same deal, they took James Edwards back then cut him with his 1 mil contract. All to get Harrington back who was a JO friend. Walsh envisioned them playing together, but they couldn't. You'd have thought Walsh would have known this from the 1st time Harrington was a Pacer!

Walsh then trades Harrington and Jackson to GS for Murphy and Dunlevey with their albatross contracts that put the Pacers in cap hell for 3.5 years. That deal earned Chris Mullins Exec of the Year Award.

With the Pacers in poor shape, Walsh bails to retire only to go to the Knicks.

I'm not even going to go into the contracts Walsh gave Tinsley, Bender, or JO. Nor the trading AD for Bender.

AND you wonder why some don't want to bring back Walsh? LOL!

Its all true, but there were some historic circumstances in play for some of those things. I mean Ron for a half year of Peja, under those circumstances was a steal on the Pacers side, imo.

I won't go line by line, but the guy built the 90s contending team and then rebuilt them to contender status, immediately afterwards, when has that ever happened?

I'll say one of most under estimated/damaging things to happen was Murphleavy, it just perpectuates the ramifications of the brawl, but I understand you had to get guys out of town.

Looking back, though, I understand almost every single move they made during that horrific period.


Lastly, he did the very best you could with the Knicks and by most reports wanted to wait out Denver/Melo to get Melo there, Donnie wouldn't have had to give up all those guys in NY, that they really could have used.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2012, 12:40 PM
Lastly, he did the very best you could with the Knicks and by most reports wanted to wait out Denver/Melo to get Melo there, Donnie wouldn't have had to give up all those guys in NY, that they really could have used.


Jimmy Boy Dolan got antsy and couldn't wait. He decided to take charge of getting Melo himself. You are right he cost the Knicks numerous players doing so. If he had waited, he could have just signed Melo with the cap Walsh had acquired while in charge, but he had to be the one in charge. I loved the fact he got what he deserved by losing good players he wouldn't have had to lose.

I've never understood why daddy Charles Dolan ever let him run the Knicks costing 100's of mil in Zeke buying out contracts alone. Sorry but my money would be more important to be than my sons vanity.

Speed
06-25-2012, 12:51 PM
Jimmy Boy Dolan got antsy and couldn't wait. He decided to take charge of getting Melo himself. You are right he cost the Knicks numerous players doing so. If he had waited, he could have just signed Melo with the cap Walsh had acquired while in charge, but he had to be the one in charge. I loved the fact he got what he deserved by losing good players he wouldn't have had to lose.

I've never understood why daddy Charles Dolan ever let him run the Knicks costing 100's of mil in Zeke buying out contracts alone. Sorry but my money would be more important to be than my sons vanity.

The buzz, too, was he wanted Zeke back involved, officially, but Stern wouldn't allow it while he was coaching FL Int'l, which I understand he got canned, I think, so wouldn't surprise me if he gets officially involved again. I say officially, cuz I think it was said Zeke was stilll pulling strings behind the scenes, even when DW was in charge. Good for the Pacers, imo. Let Dolan put Zeke in charge again. Only bad part of that was that Zeke didn't or wouldn't do any deals with the Pacers. The more dumb GMs running teams the better for the Blue and Gold.

Naptown_Seth
06-25-2012, 01:02 PM
Put me in the "what's the big deal" and "DW was a pretty outstanding GM" camp too.

Boomer for Adults proves to be true because every single thing that might be questionable gets defended as not being his choice and everything that works out, even naturally, is part of his 3 year plan (with 2-3 bonus years thrown in).

Donnie Walsh 100% did NOT hire JOB nor did he extend him. One of many examples. There were issues in the DW/LB era and we have been led to believe it was due to conflict between them, but let's be fair here, Bird didn't exact start hitting nothing but homeruns after DW left.

The biggest accomplishments in the "3 year plan" (which took more than 3 years and year one of JOB was a pathetic attempt to fumble along to the playoffs rather than rebuilding right away) was LETTING BAD CONTRACTS GO. Just not taking on more salary, period. Major win. Trading Troy for DC and not resigning Dunleavy.

In other words, the best moves were moves that undid previous moves that LB/DW made in the first place, and nothing suggests that the original choice was all DW (Jack/Al for Troy/Dun).


Maybe Larry has been solid, making good moves at times, and maybe DW made errors, but this "oh s***, we are screwed view" is just ridiculous. Let's keep things in context just a little bit. Dude isn't even in a position of authority at this point, or any position as far as we know.


I'm more concerned with how the MORWAY SITUATION is being handled. He's just not been around the team for 2 weeks. No official announcements or anything, just a stinking press leak? Not a lot of class and professionalism there, or something is cooking in the backdrop that we don't know about.

Wow. Lotta hate for a guy who was one of the most influential and beneficial people in this franchise's history.

Why would you not want Walsh back; he's one of the best managerial minds in NBA history. His lone big mistake in Indy was bringing Isiah on board. Ironically, it was Isiah's mess in New York that was cleaned up by none other than Walsh, and that was no small mess.

Why you guys wouldn't want him back in some consultant role is beyond me... but that's why y'all aren't runnin' the team.... lol.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Speed
06-25-2012, 01:08 PM
I'm more concerned with how the MORWAY SITUATION is being handled. He's just not been around the team for 2 weeks. No official announcements or anything, just a stinking press leak? Not a lot of class and professionalism there, or something is cooking in the backdrop that we don't know about.

Yes, very strange, unless it really is a done deal, its just not official. Even then, at the worst an injustice for Morway to be out there dangling, at best its not the way you should do things. Someone knows whats going on, its just not being reported, Morway has to be trying to find another job, there's a story there somewhere.

Naptown_Seth
06-25-2012, 01:08 PM
Traded Harrington for non-milk drinker Stephen Jackson. How did that workout?
It actually worked out great if you mean which guy was more willing to support a perennial COY contender.

Jack and Rick developed a very close relationship that plowed right through any in-game flare ups from Jack. Meanwhile Harrington complained about Rick the first time because of how he was used (ie, 6th man rather than "star"), and then pouted and had a meltdown so bad he didn't come back out after halftime a week before he was traded away the 2nd time.

I strongly suspect due to the timing that the GSW trade was driven far more by the Harrington hates Rick situation than by fans booing Jackson.

Harrington was a cry baby prima donna that made JO look mature. All Jack ever did was get too PO'd at refs and sometimes took bad shots. But at least he D'd up and showed that he gave a s***. (the 2 off-courts were overblown BS that he didn't start and wasn't the primary factor in)*

Plus the trade for Jack/Al was SPECIFICALLY because the Pistons beat the Pacers by clogging the lane against Ron, JO and Al. With Reggie as the only deep threat the Pacers were too easy to defend, so inside Al was swapped for outside Jack.








* Brawl, the crowd was already drunk and out of control, the guy he punched had just thrown a full beer in the face of a restrained Artest...prior to that he was all fired up but it was because a Piston took a cheap shot at his face in the scrum prior to the brawl

Rio, he didn't start the fight and wasn't in the fight, he walked to his car, got his gun out, shot it in the air and everyone scrambled out of there right away - fight over...then as he turned and walked away two convicts (who had instigated the fight) hit him with their car

Voice of reason - no, but I can understand an emotional reaction and these 2 moments were blips in the radar of who he is.

Kid Minneapolis
06-25-2012, 01:12 PM
I don't pay much historical respect to the entire Al/SJax line of personel moves. They were Pacers, that's about all I can say about 'em.

Unclebuck
06-25-2012, 01:25 PM
LOL! Some must have selective memories about Walsh. Let's take a stroll down memory lane the last # years of Walsh's leadership.

Traded Artest for a "half year rental" of Peja.

Traded Harrington for non-milk drinker Stephen Jackson. How did that workout?

Morway turned the Hornet signing of Peja into a 7.5 TE, not Walsh. Walsh dropped the ball that Morway scored with.

Brought back Harrington as a half year rental with the 7.5 TE from Peja.

Traded the 07 pick to Atlanta in a separate deal to get Harrington back. In the same deal, they took James Edwards back then cut him with his 1 mil contract. All to get Harrington back who was a JO friend. Walsh envisioned them playing together, but they couldn't. You'd have thought Walsh would have known this from the 1st time Harrington was a Pacer!

Walsh then trades Harrington and Jackson to GS for Murphy and Dunlevey with their albatross contracts that put the Pacers in cap hell for 3.5 years. That deal earned Chris Mullins Exec of the Year Award.

With the Pacers in poor shape, Walsh bails to retire only to go to the Knicks.

I'm not even going to go into the contracts Walsh gave Tinsley, Bender, or JO. Nor the trading AD for Bender.

AND you wonder why some don't want to bring back Walsh? LOL!

So are you saying he gets no credit for everything that happened prior to the fall of 2004? I assume you aren't suggesting that, so I will move on and discuss the things you have posted.


We had to trade Artest, we had no choice. His trade value was low, plus teams knew we had to trade him so he brought virtually nothingnin return. Peja was a decent trade. And whether Walsh is responsible or not for the trade exeption, he acquired Peja which led to the trade exception.


Jackson did not work out, but he was a pretty good pickup. Look what he did with the Spurs and look what he has done since. He's a very good player on a good team. if you have the right leadership around him he can be a winning player.


Who is James Edwards?

We then had to trade Jackson or we were going to lose a huge sponsor. And Dunleavy and Murph's contracts were each just 1 year longer than Jackson's and Al's. So 1 year difference is hardly cap hell.

JO contract was a good deal. He was that good of a player at that time. Tinsley's turned into a disaster. Benders was a short (at the time) 4 years, he hardly crippled the franchise with his contract. He had shown some real signs the year prior to signing the contract.

So are you suggesting that Walsh distroyed the franchise and then was too cowardly to stay and turn it around? You can't be saying that. It was time for Bird to take over.

Walsh did a nice job turning the Knicks around.

I'm not suggesting I want Walsh back as the main guy now, but to say Walsh is anything but a an excellent GM, I think is absurd. Bottonline - he got a small market team to 5 eastern conference finals and 1 NBA finals. By any objective measure that indicates to me he did a great job here.

Peck
06-25-2012, 01:59 PM
Dealing with Walsh and of course the Walsh Warriors who will undoubtedly re-emerge is kind of like dealing with Elvis or the Beatles. Even if you acknowledge how good they were if you say anything at all contradictory to their greatness you are attacked as an apostate.

Simply put the man was in charge of the Pacers for 24 years, 24 four years is longer than a lot of our forum members have been alive.

He did some good things he did some bad things. Believe it or not I never really blamed him for the entire Artetst/O’Neal issue. In fact I went out of my way to not blame him for their behavior or for sticking with them because he was finally doing what he had not always done in the past and that is contend for a title and not just be a playoff team.

No, unlike a lot of you guys my problems with Donnie stem way back from the early days. Very few of you will remember his “give me five years” speech or the Ross Perot like press conference where we were presented with charts and graphs as to why we couldn’t compete with the big market teams due to salary structure but oh btw here is this massive new contract for Rik Smits (who at the time was not even the every day starter) and also while were here even though Charles Barkley has stated he would come to Indiana and we could have put together an equally good if not better trade than the Suns did we just can’t afford him (see Smits large contract extension) so here you go Pacer fans have Boomer the Pacers Panther instead.

I could go on but what would be the point.

I will say and have always said that Walsh is a good G.M. Where I differ from the Walsh Warriors is that I don’t consider him to be the greatest G.M. in the history of sports or that he never made any errors in the way he built the team.

vapacersfan
06-25-2012, 02:59 PM
Who is James Edwards?

We then had to trade Jackson or we were going to lose a huge sponsor.

Really? Who?

Great post BTW

vapacersfan
06-25-2012, 03:01 PM
I will say and have always said that Walsh is a good G.M. Where I differ from the Walsh Warriors is that I don’t consider him to be the greatest G.M. in the history of sports or that he never made any errors in the way he built the team.

Duh! That is clearly Dan Snyder and Ernie Grunfeld!

Since86
06-25-2012, 04:54 PM
I'm assuming James Edwards should be James White.

Justin Tyme
06-25-2012, 05:22 PM
I'm assuming James Edwards should be James White.


Granted I may have the name wrong, but the player I'm referring to was a prior Pacer. He was 7' tall end of the bench type player. When the Pacers did the deal with Atlanta, the Hawks held out for the Pacers to take back this player and his 1 mil contract. IIRC, when using a TE you can't add a player or a pick, so this player and the 07 pick were put in a separate deal. I was thinking the players name was Edwards. I could be wrong about the players name... I've slept once or twice since then.

Now, this is going to bug me until I can figure out this players name.

Ah ha, I looked in a stack of many years old Hoops team salaries I have, and found it!!!


JOHN EDWARDS

Maybe my memory isn't that bad after all!

Edit: John Edwards contract was 1,080,000 mil.

Unclebuck
06-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Granted I may have the name wrong, but the player I'm referring to was a prior Pacer. He was 7' tall end of the bench type player. When the Pacers did the deal with Atlanta, the Hawks held out for the Pacers to take back this player and his 1 mil contract. IIRC, when using a TE you can't add a player or a pick, so this player and the 07 pick were put in a separate deal. I was thinking the players name was Edwards. I could be wrong about the players name... I've slept once or twice since then.

Now, this is going to bug me until I can figure out this players name.

Ah ha, I looked in a stack of many years old Hoops team salaries I have, and found it!!!


JOHN EDWARDS

Maybe my memory isn't that bad after all!

Edit: John Edwards contract was 1,080,000 mil.


Yes I remember him, but I thought the Hawks signed him to the 1 mil contract afternh
left the Pcers


Edit - yes according to this he signed with hawks year after playing for pacers

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/john_edwards/bio.html

But you r correct he was traded back to us. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/john_edwards/bio.html

DrFife
06-25-2012, 09:22 PM
BTW, I saw this on hoopshype (http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm (http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm)), although when I click on the link now (several hours later), the page is not found:

"Ex-Knicks president Donnie Walsh, ousted by Garden chairman Jim Dolan last June after he was offered a 40% pay cut, is returning to the Indiana Pacers. Walsh, the long-time Indiana CEO before he came to New York to rebuild the Knicks, will be leading the Pacers in their efforts to land free agents starting when the period opens Sunday, league sources said Monday. The team's No. 1 priority is to re-sign point guard George Hill, a restricted free agent, and sources said Walsh will be spearheading the team's efforts to keep Hill."

Hypnotiq
06-25-2012, 09:25 PM
So what is Walsh's position?

not gm i hope

Justin Tyme
06-25-2012, 09:52 PM
BTW, I saw this on hoopshype (http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm (http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm)), although when I click on the link now (several hours later), the page is not found:

"Ex-Knicks president Donnie Walsh, ousted by Garden chairman Jim Dolan last June after he was offered a 40% pay cut, is returning to the Indiana Pacers. Walsh, the long-time Indiana CEO before he came to New York to rebuild the Knicks, will be leading the Pacers in their efforts to land free agents starting when the period opens Sunday, league sources said Monday. The team's No. 1 priority is to re-sign point guard George Hill, a restricted free agent, and sources said Walsh will be spearheading the team's efforts to keep Hill."

Geez Louise! Why in the he11 do the Pacers need Walsh to sign Hill? Bird and Pritchard aren't capable? Hill can't even be talked with until Sunday. Hoping, this is nothing more than a rumor.

Hicks
06-25-2012, 10:05 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/donnie-walsh-ny-knicks-president-takes-job-larry-bird-indiana-pacers-article-1.1102153

So why is Donnie in charge of (or is he just our lead recruiter?) free agency, and more worrisome is why does it say Hill is our top priority without even so much as mentioning Hibbert?? An oversight, or... :(

Sparhawk
06-25-2012, 10:07 PM
Sounds like Walsh will be trying to BS players/star players to come to Indiana? I can live with that if that is all. He can deal with FA.

Pritchard can work on the draft and trades.

I think it could be a win win.

Sparhawk
06-25-2012, 10:09 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/donnie-walsh-ny-knicks-president-takes-job-larry-bird-indiana-pacers-article-1.1102153

So why is Donnie in charge of (or is he just our lead recruiter?) free agency, and more worrisome is why does it say Hill is our top priority without even so much as mentioning Hibbert?? An oversight, or... :(

From IndyCornrow's Tom Lewis,

Instead, the Pacers may realize Hibbert's number will be big and with the extra year they can offer they will either keep him or let him go, but the framework of the decision may already be solid. There's a lot more wiggle room in dealing with Hill and after giving up a number one pick to bring in Hill last year, letting him walk now would make that a big mistake.

I kinda agree. As long as Hill isn't over freaking paid like Tinsley, Bender, Croshere, etc. We have history of this kind of crap. I like Hill, but not at $7-$8M/yr.

If Hibbert proves too expensive, I truly hope Pritchard can work some kind of sign and trade. I'd hate to lose the big fella for nothing. I truly hope he resigns with the Pacers.

Hicks
06-25-2012, 10:11 PM
So the guy known for spending quite a bit on keeping his own guys in the past is now responsible for bringing George Hill back to us? Oh boy...

tadscout
06-25-2012, 10:21 PM
Sounds like Walsh will be trying to BS players/star players to come to Indiana? I can live with that if that is all. He can deal with FA.

Pritchard can work on the draft and trades.

I think it could be a win win.

As long as he just wine and dine/ BS players, and doesn't negotiate the contract... then yes I have no issue with it.

Young
06-25-2012, 10:27 PM
How many big time free agents did Donnie wine and dine to Indy during his first 24 years with the team? What makes anyone think that he can do different this time around?

tadscout
06-25-2012, 10:52 PM
How many big time free agents did Donnie wine and dine to Indy during his first 24 years with the team? What makes anyone think that he can do different this time around?

How often did we have cap room?

Also, wasn't that the role he did with the Knicks?

vnzla81
06-25-2012, 10:55 PM
So the guy known for spending quite a bit on keeping his own guys in the past is now responsible for bringing George Hill back to us? Oh boy...

Don't forget he is the one that signed Amare for all that money.

Young
06-25-2012, 11:12 PM
How often did we have cap room?

Also, wasn't that the role he did with the Knicks?

Legit question about the cap room. I do not know the answer to that.

I will say that it is a lot easier to wine and dine someone to come to New York than it is Indianapolis. I love Indy and I think it is a great city. It just doesn't seem to be the type of city that attracts big name free agents. Players want to go to New York, Miami, LA, Chicago, etc.

Peck
06-25-2012, 11:44 PM
How often did we have cap room?

Also, wasn't that the role he did with the Knicks?

Um, who's fault is that? That was always the true problem when he was here because we never had money to spend except to over pay for our own free agents. I hate to keep harping on Smits because I know people will say it worked out in the end. But Donnie dramatically over payed him on his second contract. Rik didn't even come close to earning that money till 4 or 5 years later and there are many of us who will argue that if you don't have Larry Brown come along then Smits would never have earned that money.

24 years and not one time did the guy ever sign an impact free agent other than Byron Scott who he got on the cheap after he was released from the Lakers.

Bird/Morway/Pritchard/whoever signed the biggest free agent in our teams history (David West) and somehow they managed to do that without Walsh being here and somehow Walsh was never able to do that in his 24 years here.

clownskull
06-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Um, who's fault is that? That was always the true problem when he was here because we never had money to spend except to over pay for our own free agents. I hate to keep harping on Smits because I know people will say it worked out in the end. But Donnie dramatically over payed him on his second contract. Rik didn't even come close to earning that money till 4 or 5 years later and there are many of us who will argue that if you don't have Larry Brown come along then Smits would never have earned that money.

24 years and not one time did the guy ever sign an impact free agent other than Byron Scott who he got on the cheap after he was released from the Lakers.

Bird/Morway/Pritchard/whoever signed the biggest free agent in our teams history (David West) and somehow they managed to do that without Walsh being here and somehow Walsh was never able to do that in his 24 years here.
this- we never had that money available because of making it a priority to keep our guys. after we kept our guys, there was nothing left. i fear we may be going back to keeping some guys just because they are on the roster and not because they are going to get us to the point where we are in contending position.