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View Full Version : Does the Heat's championship hurt the NBA's image?



Psyren
06-22-2012, 12:16 AM
Now that the Heat have won a championship, does this further hurt the NBA's already damaged image?

The league already carries a bad reputation as being unfair, rigged, built for superstars, and whatever other complaints you'd like to throw in there.

I don't think this will affect attendance or anything like that, because fans are generally so loyal to their teams and to the game they love. I just want to know your thoughts on how the leagues image looks after the Heat's championship.

Please answer either yes or no in the poll, and then leave a response down below as to why you believe what you do.

Pacersalltheway10
06-22-2012, 12:42 AM
LeBron is destroying basketball. Not the NBA. He is destroying the way kids think of "good basketball"

vnzla81
06-22-2012, 12:45 AM
LeBron is destroying basketball. Not the NBA. He is destroying the way kids think of "good basketball"

Yeah I'm not sure about that, he actually plays basketball the right way.

ECKrueger
06-22-2012, 12:52 AM
I think it does, even if it is because almost every one hates Miami.

Also, I think "good basketball" has been effectively dead for a while.

TheDon
06-22-2012, 01:01 AM
I think what sucks is it legitimizes all the other free agent superstars to team up and try to build their own super team in whatever big market there is they'd like to go to. That's what I think sucks the most about it is it makes it harder for smaller markets to even try to attract free agents unless they already have some amazing set of stars on their team and even then it's going to be a hard sell. Even teams like the thunder had to draft nearly perfectly to be in the position they're in.

dewman_32
06-22-2012, 01:01 AM
It's not so much that the Heat won the championship for me as much as it is how they won it. Non-flagrant fouls on Wade in the Pacers series and a flagrant tonight against Fisher which was an absolute joke. They got the benefit of a lot of calls falling their way during these playoffs. Having said that, they did seem to want it more. I honestly believe that the Pacers woke them up though. Being down 2-1 to the Pacers, we saw a different Heat team emerge in that series, and one that continued to play very, very well from that point on.

The Heat got a lot of calls, but I personally didn't see those calls effecting any of the series they were involved in. But it's the perception that they got those calls because the NBA wanted them to win that is so damaging. Perception is everything and while there wasn't a level of calls to rise up to the Lakers-Kings series of years ago in terms of the outcome being "rigged", there is that perception that the Heat had help from the guys in stripes.

Bottom line regarding the Heat winning this series - they wanted it more. They had the experience, the desire and the motivation that the Thunder lacked.

Noodle
06-22-2012, 01:06 AM
Yes, it hurts the NBA's image a little. The Prima Donna's got their ring is the story. But please, LeBron isn't the pioneer for bad team basketball. Bad basketball as we know it was born in the 80's.

Peck
06-22-2012, 01:45 AM
LeBron is destroying basketball. Not the NBA. He is destroying the way kids think of "good basketball"

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b0AGiq9j_Ak" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That ship sailed a long time ago.

15th parallel
06-22-2012, 01:57 AM
No I don't think it hurts the NBA at all. If you have seen the way Miami played in the finals, they showed great execution, ball movement, and team ball. I think LeBron showed us that he can be dominant in so many ways other than scoring (ball movement, rebounding, defense). And that team execution is the key to win, seeing those 3's from Miller and Battier from open looks. While the other Heat guys just made some dirty plays on the Pacers (looking at Wade, Pittman), the Heat played great basketball involving the other guys and not just the Big 3 overwhelming the opponents.

In terms of teaming up with superstars, I think the hate should stop. I mean, he was a free agent when he made a choice. He was never a Dwight nor a Melo, who just made a drama for them to be forced to team up with other guys. Besides, there were sacrifices when he made that move (took a paycut, not so good bench guys, legacy). Miami as far as I'm concerned is not that big of a market for basketball, it just had an established star and being run by a hall of famer.

PR07
06-22-2012, 02:02 AM
No, every league needs a good villain. The Yankees, the Patriots, the Heat, etc. all make their respective league's more exciting.

pwee31
06-22-2012, 02:09 AM
I think the Heat help the NBA. Most sports need a villain for you to root against. The Heat are that villain, and them winning a title just solidify that, and put a bigger target on their back. Like the Yankees in MLB and the Patriots or Steelers (for the most part) in the NFL. Those are teams you wanna watch, b/c those are teams you enjoy getting beat. The further they advance, the more temporary fan base their next opponent gets.

If anything is ruining the image of the NBA, it's the officiating or rules, depending on how you look at it. Flopping, restricted charge circle, questionable flagrant foul calls. Those are the things hurting the NBA's image, not the Heat

d_c
06-22-2012, 02:10 AM
No I don't think it hurts the NBA at all. If you have seen the way Miami played in the finals, they showed great execution, ball movement, and team ball. I think LeBron showed us that he can be dominant in so many ways other than scoring (ball movement, rebounding, defense). And that team execution is the key to win, seeing those 3's from Miller and Battier from open looks. While the other Heat guys just made some dirty plays on the Pacers (looking at Wade, Pittman), the Heat played great basketball involving the other guys and not just the Big 3 overwhelming the opponents.

In terms of teaming up with superstars, I think the hate should stop. I mean, he was a free agent when he made a choice. He was never a Dwight nor a Melo, who just made a drama for them to be forced to team up with other guys. Besides, there were sacrifices when he made that move (took a paycut, not so good bench guys, legacy). Miami as far as I'm concerned is not that big of a market for basketball, it just had an established star and being run by a hall of famer.

Glad somebody said it.

Lebron played 7 years in Cleveland. He did exactly what Tim Duncan (in 2000) did when his first extension came around: He took a 3 year deal because he wanted to see how the team would build and evolve. What are the chances Duncan stays after those 3 years if the Spurs don't get Parker and Ginobilli? A lot lower, I would think.

And Miami isn't that big of a market. Remember he turned down bigger markets in LA, NY and Chi when the time came to make the choice. He ended up picking the 2nd smallest market.

Also, would anyone consider Lebron "selfish" or playing the wrong way for basically quarterbacking Miami's defense, playing DPOY level defense at 3 positions and guarding everything from the perimeter to the paint? He dominated the game more on the defensive end than the offensive end. I don't think anyone who does that should ever be accused of playing the game the wrong way.

AesopRockOn
06-22-2012, 02:15 AM
Lebron didn't team up with other superstars. Wade and Bosh teamed up with him, the best basketball player alive. That's how this will be remembered.

The poll question and premise are absurd, and actually the exact opposite of what will happen. Some of you sound like cranky old people going on about skateboarding on the sidewalk.

I think the Heat will become much more likable now because it truly is Lebron's team. Before it was Wade pulling the strings, probably calling hits on second year Pacer guards, telling Lebron to hold big celebrations in honor of himself. Now, with his more carefree, joking attitude and with this huge monkey off his back, Lebron will bring a much better personality to the Heat. (Miami is not a large market. What the hell?)

I will still hate them when we play them. Riley is still ruthless, Wade a douche, Pittman and Howard dumb lackeys, Lebron entitled (pun gun time!), and Bosh not nearly as fun as he used to be on YouTube. But this opens them up for more likability and relatableness (relatability?). Lebron was the villain but worked hard enough to see himself become the hero. The target once on his back is now a happy face. Other stupid ****** slogan you'll probably see on Grantland in the next week.

And I still dislike the Heat more than any other franchise at this point. Doesn't mean my *****ing or anyone else's is going to bring down the league. Tell me, did Stern look happy tonight?

clownskull
06-22-2012, 02:28 AM
I think what sucks is it legitimizes all the other free agent superstars to team up and try to build their own super team in whatever big market there is they'd like to go to. That's what I think sucks the most about it is it makes it harder for smaller markets to even try to attract free agents unless they already have some amazing set of stars on their team and even then it's going to be a hard sell. Even teams like the thunder had to draft nearly perfectly to be in the position they're in.

i agree completely. with things as they are, there are teams that almost certainly have absolutely no shot whatsoever. if okc hadn't drafted as well as they did- no way do they get their best guys in free agency. unless the pacers can get a superstar-level player on the team, there is about a 99.9% likelihood they never win a championship. mil, mem, are some of the other teams in the same boat. small market landlocked teams are not hip and sexy sells to the big names. they don't have the year-round warm weather and the coolest clubs to be seen at and not much in the celebrity dept to raise the glamor factor either and yes, it really IS important to many of those guys.

d_c
06-22-2012, 02:37 AM
they don't have the year-round warm weather and the coolest clubs to be seen at and not much in the celebrity dept to raise the glamor factor either and yes, it really IS important to many of those guys.

The only two teams in the league that players will always want to play for no matter what are the Lakers and Knicks. That's it. Notice that other teams in big markets like the Clippers, Warriors, Wizards and 76ers have play in big markets but haven't been big FA destinations and have gotten mostly small market results. Even the Celtics with their storied history in the 90s and early 2000s were not considered a premier FA destination. Also remember in 2000 when Chicago lost to Orlando in the big FA frenzy year.

And notice that Miami was not a desirable location until 1995, when Pat Riley came onto the scene. Before Riley, they were just considered a Vancouver like expansion team. All the best clubs and nightlife in the world didn't make them a desirable location until a guy who knew how to build a winner showed up in town.

wintermute
06-22-2012, 02:48 AM
The league's current media darling winning the championship hurts the league's image? WTF? If anything, it would help bring in more casual fans.

As for the fans of other teams who resent the Heat, I think deep down we already knew that the Heat are going to win a championship eventually. They're just too talented no to. So I don't think this changes anything.

RLeWorm
06-22-2012, 03:54 AM
No way! Ever since Lebron joined the Heat, i've never seen more people interested basketball.

shags
06-22-2012, 07:22 AM
It's been said already in this thread, but the Yankees aren't bad for baseball, the Patriots aren't bad for the NFL, Duke's not bad for college basketball, and Notre Dame's not bad for college football. Every sport needs a villain.

Kstat
06-22-2012, 08:05 AM
The league MVP winning the championship trophy hurts the NBA's image? Really?

Kstat
06-22-2012, 08:08 AM
LeBron is destroying basketball. Not the NBA. He is destroying the way kids think of "good basketball"

Its the reverse. He's destroying the NBA because of how good he is. He can turn a bad system and win a championship because he is just that damn good. Miami won a title with one of the smaller teams in the last 30 years because lebron can cover for everyone and mask obvious weaknesses.

That said, the guy does everything in a basketball court that you'd want to teach kids. To say he's hurting youth basketball is insane.

Sollozzo
06-22-2012, 08:14 AM
Why can't people just give Lebron props and leave it at that? You don't have to go out and buy the guy's jersey or anything, but just admit that he played great and deserves to be on top. It's never a bad thing when the league's biggest star is on top of the world.

vapacersfan
06-22-2012, 08:20 AM
NO!

NO!

NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!

NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!


NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!

Sorry, but IMO the answer is............"NO!"

Unclebuck
06-22-2012, 08:31 AM
You can hate Lebron for a lot of things, but I do not for the life of me see how anyone can hate Lebron for what he does when he is on the basketball court. He plays the right way. He is a combination of Magic and Michael Jordan in every respect.


So hate him if you want to I don't care, but I would hope you can appreciate his game because it is special

owl
06-22-2012, 08:58 AM
You can hate Lebron for a lot of things, but I do not for the life of me see how anyone can hate Lebron for what he does when he is on the basketball court. He plays the right way. He is a combination of Magic and Michael Jordan in every respect.


So hate him if you want to I don't care, but I would hope you can appreciate his game because it is special

Yep! What you said pretty much sums it up. Could Lebron have won a championship in Cleveland playing the way he is playing now? Absolutely. Sad for Cleveland. Lebron gave up too soon.

Kstat
06-22-2012, 09:06 AM
Yeah. The ultimate irony is that Miami won the championship with lebron pretty much creating all of the offense. It looked like he was back in a cavs uniform for most of the finals.

In the end, he needed even less help than people realized.

King Tuts Tomb
06-22-2012, 09:12 AM
Yep! What you said pretty much sums it up. Could Lebron have won a championship in Cleveland playing the way he is playing now? Absolutely. Sad for Cleveland. Lebron gave up too soon.

There's a chance definitely because he's so good, but definitely not a lock. There's a significantly higher chance of the shot going in when you're passing to Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade and Shane Battier instead of Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams and Anthony Parker. The deciding margins of these last three series were pretty tight a lot of the time. I doubt his cast in Cleveland would have been able to step up.

The Sleeze
06-22-2012, 09:17 AM
You can hate Lebron for a lot of things, but I do not for the life of me see how anyone can hate Lebron for what he does when he is on the basketball court. He plays the right way. He is a combination of Magic and Michael Jordan in every respect.


So hate him if you want to I don't care, but I would hope you can appreciate his game because it is special

Exactly, save all the hate for Shane Battier....the fact "the grin" has a ring is troubling me.

PaceBalls
06-22-2012, 09:39 AM
I feel, probably with bias, that the Pacers series really ignited that Heat team. The Heat got knocked around a bit and with all the trash talking, all that talk from the media calling them out as soft entitled whiners really fueled the fire. I think some of the antics by Lance and how Granger had to get all in the face of anyone who nudged him the wrong way ended up burning us. I think if the players hadn't been so combustive and just played basketball we might have won that series.

This playoffs for the Pacers kinda felt like some of the playoffs of old. We had a really good team, but just ran into a juggernaut.

I don't think it's bad for the NBA's image. Just the same as the Lakers or the Bulls winning championship after championship were not. It's bad for me because I hate the Heat with the fire of a raging inferno. I hope we beat them next year. I feel like that is now the next step in the team's evolution.

BillS
06-22-2012, 09:39 AM
I'm not happy about it, but this is a silly question. The "image" of the NBA isn't hurt at all.

The chances of the NBA becoming a six-team league with 24 minor-league teams are now about 100%, but that isn't going to hurt the image of it at all. Everyone will just watch the six stable teams and hope that the minor league teams move to their town for a few years.

graphic-er
06-22-2012, 09:40 AM
It's not so much that the Heat won the championship for me as much as it is how they won it. Non-flagrant fouls on Wade in the Pacers series and a flagrant tonight against Fisher which was an absolute joke. They got the benefit of a lot of calls falling their way during these playoffs. Having said that, they did seem to want it more. I honestly believe that the Pacers woke them up though. Being down 2-1 to the Pacers, we saw a different Heat team emerge in that series, and one that continued to play very, very well from that point on.

The Heat got a lot of calls, but I personally didn't see those calls effecting any of the series they were involved in. But it's the perception that they got those calls because the NBA wanted them to win that is so damaging. Perception is everything and while there wasn't a level of calls to rise up to the Lakers-Kings series of years ago in terms of the outcome being "rigged", there is that perception that the Heat had help from the guys in stripes.

Bottom line regarding the Heat winning this series - they wanted it more. They had the experience, the desire and the motivation that the Thunder lacked.

I agree with your general premise, but I will disagree about the calls not effecting the series. They got a ton of no calls. When James and Wade averaged 1 foul a game like they did against the Pacers, that reflects on the outcome of a series greatly. It means Lebron James can play the entire game.

Some people say Lebron doesn't foul very much, but that is utter BS. We seen him foul Durant on the baseline in the closing minutes of Game 2, and ref wasn't in position to see it. He throws elbows at our players, thats a foul. I will always maintain that its the officials treatment of certain players that make them superstars.

Slick Pinkham
06-22-2012, 09:44 AM
When I teach basketball to my son,

I tell him to not settle for jump shots but to look for easier baskets, for himself or a teammate
I tell him to use either hand around the basket
I tell him to be able to go left or go right, dribble with either hand, pivot off either foot
I tell him to put all shots within 10 feet off glass, if there is any angle at all, assuming he cannot dunk LOL
I tell him to learn shot fakes, ball fakes, head and shoulder fakes
I tell him to find his teammates
I tell him to move without the ball
I tell him to not take a break on defense
I tell him to use his feet to defend, but also to always get a hand up


Of course if I want to SHOW him how to do every one of those things, I could show him some tapes of Lebron James.

graphic-er
06-22-2012, 09:46 AM
I'm not happy about it, but this is a silly question. The "image" of the NBA isn't hurt at all.

The chances of the NBA becoming a six-team league with 24 minor-league teams are now about 100%, but that isn't going to hurt the image of it at all. Everyone will just watch the six stable teams and hope that the minor league teams move to their town for a few years.

This would never happen. You have 30 massive egos as owners. All of them have equal an equal stake in the league and who runs the league as commissioner. It just would never happen because you would need to have a over half of these guys basically willingly give up their teams.

Slick Pinkham
06-22-2012, 09:48 AM
Player A is quicker, more physical, and plays more aggressively than player B.

Player B gets more fouls than player A.

bizarroland interpretation: "the refs are favoring player A and the league is fixed"

shags
06-22-2012, 09:48 AM
I'm not happy about it, but this is a silly question. The "image" of the NBA isn't hurt at all.

The chances of the NBA becoming a six-team league with 24 minor-league teams are now about 100%, but that isn't going to hurt the image of it at all. Everyone will just watch the six stable teams and hope that the minor league teams move to their town for a few years.

And yet that's how the NBA thrived in the 1980's. Five teams (yes, FIVE) made the Finals that decade (Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Rockets, and Pistons). And that decade saved the league.

MyFavMartin
06-22-2012, 09:49 AM
Why does a team of 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA struggle to win any rings?

Kstat
06-22-2012, 09:52 AM
Yeah. The ideal scenario for the NBA isn't one dominant team, and it isn't 30 mediocre ones. It's 5-6 evenly matched dominant teams that almost guarantee a compelling finals every year.

Kstat
06-22-2012, 09:53 AM
Why does a team of 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA struggle to win any rings?

That Miami team did not have 3 of the Top 10 NBA players. You could argue they didn't even have two.

Slick Pinkham
06-22-2012, 09:54 AM
Why does a team of 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA struggle to win any rings?
winning championships half the time, while being runner-up the other half, is failure?

graphic-er
06-22-2012, 09:59 AM
Lebron James winning if he would stayed in Cleveland?? Seriously people. Lets not post foolishly. Lebron James never had a teammate who could consistently score 25pts a game in Cleveland. Wade has not had a bad game since his 5pt clunker against us in game 3! If Wade had not step up his game Lebron would not have made it out of round 2, and I hate Wade more than Lebron but I can acknowledge that Lebron isn't winning **** with out Wade.

shags
06-22-2012, 10:06 AM
Lebron James winning if he would stayed in Cleveland?? Seriously people. Lets not post foolishly. Lebron James never had a teammate who could consistently score 25pts a game in Cleveland. Wade has not had a bad game since his 5pt clunker against us in game 3! If Wade had not step up his game Lebron would not have made it out of round 2, and I hate Wade more than Lebron but I can acknowledge that Lebron isn't winning **** with out Wade.

And that's not to mention the contributions in the Finals from role players like Shane Battier, Mario Chalmers, and Mike Miller.

LeBron was otherworldly in the postseason. But it's wrong to imply that Miami was a one man team.

KennerLeaguer
06-22-2012, 10:08 AM
Now that the Heat have won a championship, does this further hurt the NBA's already damaged image?

The league already carries a bad reputation as being unfair, rigged, built for superstars, and whatever other complaints you'd like to throw in there.

I don't think this will affect attendance or anything like that, because fans are generally so loyal to their teams and to the game they love. I just want to know your thoughts on how the leagues image looks after the Heat's championship.

Please answer either yes or no in the poll, and then leave a response down below as to why you believe what you do.

Where were the complaints when KG and Ray Allen were added to Pierce in Boston?

This league has been on a strong upswing for three years. The ratings keep growing. Its global appeal is stronger than it has even been (The NFL can only dream about being as big internationally). A report came out that investors/commercial sponsors get back a better investment for the NBA than any of the other four major league sports. A new report came out that the sport is as popular with the 18 to 35 crowd (known as : the future) as it has been since the days of Jordan. It is not lacking star power.

Just because red state in America and sports talk show nation love to hate the league doesn’t mean its reputation is tarnished or suffering. And it is not as if Miami has a bunch of criminals on its roster. The league is doing just fine.

Kstat
06-22-2012, 10:08 AM
Miami was a one man team. Even wades numbers were mostly due to lebron. When lebron wasn't directing the offense, wade struggled.

Wades biggest contribution was as a defender. He managed to play the pippen role this year, but he's declining pretty rapidly.

The more lebron dominated the ball, the less wade did, the more miami won.

shags
06-22-2012, 10:12 AM
For the record, the Heat lose to the Celtics if Chris Bosh doesn't come back.

And for the record, the Heat lose to the Thunder if not for Shane Battier, Mario Chalmers, Norris Cole, and Mike Miller.

The Cleveland Cavaliers in 2007 were a one man team. The 2012 Miami Heat weren't.

LeBron made it all work, and answered every question anyone had, but he wasn't passing to Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, or Donyell Marshall.

BillS
06-22-2012, 10:13 AM
And yet that's how the NBA thrived in the 1980's. Five teams (yes, FIVE) made the Finals that decade (Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Rockets, and Pistons). And that decade saved the league.

Then let's go back to the 1980's with the Pacers having to close off the upper levels of the Fieldhouse and generally being a laughing stock.

I am so tired of this response, as if the 1980's NBA model is not just the ONLY successful model, it is the IDEAL successful model, except maybe for one dominant team and 29 also-rans (see the Bulls Dynasty).

The problem is that the league is stuck in this exact same myopic view and won't even try broadening the base. No one cares where the teams are, just who plays on them. That is going to be the death of any team not lucky enough to have a large enough population to carry them through the years when they don't have a marquee name - ultimately, the "successful" model will be the big market teams playing at home against traveling teams except when they play each other in the championship series. That gives the 5-6 big teams, the owners of the traveling teams make money because they don't have to pay any logistics or big name players, huge superstars for the fans outside those cities who only care about the latest hyped player, and lots of TV audience.

No place for the Pacers in that scenario, at least not in Indianapolis. But, fine, that's the way it has to be since it worked in the 80's.

Kstat
06-22-2012, 10:14 AM
Yes. Miami would not have win it all had it not been for great contributions from a lot of role players. that does not change the entire team revolved around one guy getting all this other guys wide open shots.

It's the exact same offense they ran in Cleveland. The only difference was Lebron played better. You can't tell me they couldn't have fit a team of guys around him there that did nothing but play defense and hit open threes.

Psyren
06-22-2012, 10:19 AM
My apologies everyone.

I had no idea this question was as dumb as it apparently is.

Discussion over.

Slick Pinkham
06-22-2012, 10:23 AM
Yes. Miami would not have win it all had it not been for great contributions from a lot of role players. that does not change the entire team revolved around one guy getting all this other guys wide open shots.

It's the exact same offense they ran in Cleveland. The only difference was Lebron played better. You can't tell me they couldn't have fit a team of guys around him there that did nothing but play defense and hit open threes.

I can certainly tell you that the players around him in Cleveland were pretty much incapable of either playing good defense or hitting open threes on a consistent basis, and to do both was unfathomable.

Kstat
06-22-2012, 10:25 AM
His Cleveland teams were routinely good shooters. Their downfall was at the defensive end, but you can't tell me they couldnt have acquired guys like chalmers and battier.

swifty1812
06-22-2012, 10:28 AM
I don't think it is dumb. I'm in the group that enjoys my grapes to be sour. I can't stand the Heat, i don't like the fact that them winning is going to push the league to the point that BillS is talking about above here. i know people don't want to believe it, but it will.

I would much rather the league have a model more like the NFL, where there is actually balance. The only time you will see small market, cold weather teams do much of anything is when they draft well. Outside of that those teams will only be able to pick up the B level FAs and will be a majority 2nd roundish exits from the playoffs at best.

Kstat
06-22-2012, 10:33 AM
Well, when basketball teams field 56 man rosters, there can be more parity, like the NFL...

...of course, that's a joke anyhow, but since the colts are one of the "haves" in the NFL, let's pretend that the NFL is more fair, and we aren't seeing the same 3 AFC teams in the superbowl every year....

vapacersfan
06-22-2012, 10:47 AM
Player A is quicker, more physical, and plays more aggressively than player B.Player B gets more fouls than player A.bizarroland interpretation: "the refs are favoring player A and the league is fixed"Lets use one possible scenario of a 48 minute game, out of tens or even hundreds possible scenarios, that occur in a regular NBA playoff game. bizarroland interpretation: "the refs are perfect and never make any mistakes"EDIT: I wont even touch on the fixed part, seeing as the whole Tim D. thing has been talked about enough here

Slick Pinkham
06-22-2012, 11:02 AM
Nobody on Earth thinks that the refs are perfect and never make any mistakes.

They make plenty of them.

Making mistakes is easy, but intentionally crafting those mistakes to always go one certain prearranged way would seem to be pretty hard.

graphic-er
06-22-2012, 11:05 AM
Nobody on Earth thinks that the refs are perfect and never make any mistakes.

They make plenty of them.

Making mistakes is easy, but intentionally crafting those mistakes to always go one certain prearranged way would seem to be pretty hard.

Certainly there is a aura in the air that certain players a capable of making certain plays, and thus the officials give them the benefit of the doubt. And its wrong. Again the refs make them into superstar players.

vapacersfan
06-22-2012, 11:39 AM
Nobody on Earth thinks that the refs are perfect and never make any mistakes.

They make plenty of them.

Making mistakes is easy, but intentionally crafting those mistakes to always go one certain prearranged way would seem to be pretty hard.

That line of logic is fine, except it ignores the people (many, most?...) who argue there is not a fix but instead a superstar (or star, or preferintial treatment, whatever you want to call it) treatment.

FWIW I know plenty of people who see Stern as a Tony Soprano type, and who think LeBron was punished for the decision by Stern not letting him win the title last year. I dont personally belive that, but as has been beaten to death here, the NBA has an obvious perception problem when it comes to refs, be it fair or not. But Ill leave that alone, because the thread about the draft and IMO Sterns smart *** answer has gotten enough play

d_c
06-22-2012, 11:52 AM
I can't stand the Heat, i don't like the fact that them winning is going to push the league to the point that BillS is talking about above here. i know people don't want to believe it, but it will.


You mean the league wasn't already pushed to that point when the Lakers and Celts combined for 8 titles in 10 years in the 80s? Or When Jordan's Bulls won 6 out of 8 years? Or when the Spurs and Lakers combined for 9 titles over a 12 year stretch?

People watched when there were dynasties way back then and they're going to watch now. The NBA has always thrived as a business with dominant teams being dominant.

Kraft
06-22-2012, 11:53 AM
Well, when basketball teams field 56 man rosters, there can be more parity, like the NFL...

...of course, that's a joke anyhow, but since the colts are one of the "haves" in the NFL, let's pretend that the NFL is more fair, and we aren't seeing the same 3 AFC teams in the superbowl every year....

You're right in that the Steelers, Patriots and Colts have dominated AFC appearances of late, but it's also worth mentioning that Pittsburgh got there with two different QBs dating back to Super Bowl XXX. The Patriots did as well.

And if you use the same time frame, 11 different NFC teams have made it in the past 17 years.

Moreover, the more prominent stars on these teams played only half the game.

It's simpler to say there's really no comparison between the two products.

BillS
06-22-2012, 12:00 PM
You mean the league wasn't already pushed to that point when the Lakers and Celts combined for 8 titles in 10 years in the 80s? Or When Jordan's Bulls won 6 out of 8 years? Or when the Spurs and Lakers combined for 9 titles over a 12 year stretch?

People watched when there were dynasties way back then and they're going to watch now. The NBA has always thrived as a business with dominant teams being dominant.

Yes, the LEAGUE will survive. What is best for the LEAGUE is not necessarily good for anyone but those teams at the top of it under this business model. The only way for most of the teams to break into that level is to literally hit the lottery jackpot - and even then it threatens to only be a temporary circumstance because teams with lower sources of revenue can't afford to break the bank (i.e. pay the Luxury Tax) year after year to try to bring in the "supporting cast" needed to keep a hot player from going for greener pastures.

To help TEAMS survive, there needs to be something that helps the TEAM get monetary support no matter whether they have it built in (by being in a large enough market that a small fraction of the population is enough to fill the arena for a year) or have a hyped player.

The alternative is as I have said - why bother having teams in places where they won't automatically make money, leading to why bother having teams actually in cities except for the few that can sell out night after night after night since they both have the population AND are marquee destinations for the hyped players.

The LEAGUE survives just fine in that scenario. The Pacers - not so much.

Skaut_Ech
06-22-2012, 12:26 PM
This has been a pretty interesting thread with some really good responses, but I’ve noticed an underlying theme no one is addressing directly. The proverbial elephant in the room:

Resentment.

As Pacer fans, we are all about playing bball “the right way.” Say what you will about Larry Brown, but he instilled such a strong imprint on the mindset of this team and its fans, that Bird carried over, of playing no whining, hard fouling, pass first basketball. This fed into how a lot of us grew up with Indiana Basketball. We were fans of the no nonsense of Big Mac, Mel and Freddie Lewis, a feeling that transferred to Dale Davis, Rik Smits, and Reggie later in his career. (I’m sorry, I hated early Reggie, when he wore those Hulk Hogan sunglasses and matching bandana and wanted people to call him Hollywood. Indiana basketball slowly transformed Reggie in a more sound, introspective player in his later years.) Slick Leonard is an icon not just for what he did as a coach, but for his fundamentals first approach to the game. LB continued that tradition and at the risk of hyperbole, I’m going to throw Vogel in with that lot. It’s not just the Xs and Os. I feel that strongly about Vogel’s mindset towards the game.

Resentment.

We believe in building a TEAM, with complimentary cogs and a group effort. Then we have someone like Lebron come along. Make no bones about it. As much as I can “hate” a player, I hate Lebron James. Part of the reason was mentioned in a recent Hoopsworld article (key passages bolded by me);

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba2-ibaka-clarifies-comments-on-lebron-james (http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba2-ibaka-clarifies-comments-on-lebron-james)

LeBron James Turns the Page?

This is what we’ve been waiting for.
Over the first eight years of LeBron James’ career, it was easy to find reasons not to like him. Sure, he has been a stats machine, but for all of his great numbers, he lacked a certain respect for the game that came through any time I had a conversation with the guy.

For example, right after then-Cleveland Cavaliers GM Danny Ferry delivered LeBron the player he asked for – Shaquille O’Neal – I asked LeBron what he thought he could learn from the decorated All-Star and NBA champion. LeBron raised his eyebrows, kind of snickered and told me he had nothing to learn from “that old man.” Thinking he was surely joking, I asked again, only to be told that Shaq had a lot to learn from LeBron, not the other way around. (cough, cough)

Then there was the John Lucas charity game, held in December while the NBA lockout was still going on. Lucas changed the date of the game, which featured a locker room full of NBA stars including Derrick Rose and Zach Randolph, three times to accommodate LeBron’s schedule, only to be told at the last minute that LeBron wouldn’t show up if he didn’t get $20,000 for the effort. When Lucas pointed out that the game was a charity event for a non-profit benefiting homeless children in Houston and that no one was getting paid, LeBron bailed.
And of course, America watched as LeBron made a complete um, jerk, of himself during the Finals last season. Whether he was punking Dirk Nowitzki for playing with a 102 fever or prematurely celebrating time after time and often right in front of the Dallas Mavericks’ bench, it really became even easier to dislike LeBron.

Ever an optimist, I kept thinking that sooner or later LeBron would get over himself and realize that being an NBA champion was about more than just making as much money as possible and scoring 40 points in three quarters. It didn’t hurt that he sought out Hakeem Olajuwon, one of the humblest Hall of Famers you’ll find, over the offseason. Dream gave him lessons on the court, sure, but also spent time talking to LeBron about what it means to be a champion.
Somewhere along the way, it seems something sank in.

“Last year after Game 6, after losing, I was very frustrated,” James said after his HEAT won Game 5 of the Finals on Tuesday night. “I was very hurt that I let my teammates down, and I was very immature. Last year, I played to prove people wrong instead of just playing my game, instead of just going out and having fun and playing a game that I grew up loving. So I was very immature last year after Game 6 toward (the media) and toward everyone that was watching.”
While that’s not a stunning admission coming from LeBron – immaturity had become LeBron’s defining characteristic in media circles – the fact that he made it indicates something has changed.
Maybe he has finally gotten it!

There is still one more hurdle for James to overcome in his quest to prove he has grown as a player, and that is to lock in his first NBA championship. Given that the Oklahoma City Thunder – who have lacked maturity on the basketball court in this Finals series – are now down 1-3, a deficit from which no team has ever come back, it seems extremely likely that LeBron’s quest to become the player his fans believe him to already be will take a huge step forward in the coming days.




So, to go back to your question, psyren; Does the Heat winning the championship hurt the NBA’s image? My answer is “NO.”

In an increasingly “me first” society, The Heat exemplify what fans want to see, especially the casual fan-a staggeringly talented player with a lot of flash who puts up gaudy stats and entertains, who surrounds himself with role players to prop him up. Then throw in another stud player, Mix well and serve. This is no different than the Bulls model which was so successful or the Kobe led champions from just a few years ago. The fact the Spurs were able to do what they did always gave me such hope.

I think what a lot of Pacers fans are feeling is resentment at a team winning that has the perception of flopping, whining inordinately to the refs and getting preferential calls. I can’t say there isn’t some validity to that assertion, but I think what galls us most is the perception that an arrogant, petulant superstar, coupled with an almost equally dangerous, at times, whiner, won a title based, ostensibly on one of those two hogging the ball and only passing when forced. Team ball seemed to go out the window with this team, in favor of two guys, which goes against how most of us few basketball. We resent that our model of team first, individuals second, lost out to a team like the Heat. I would think, as an Indiana fan, their style of play is repugnant to us. (Reminds me of the debates we used to have on Indystar/Starnews about acquiring Iverson and becoming one of THOSE teams, lol.) We expect other fans to share our dismay, but in reality, a lot of other fans simply don’t care. Lebron, despite his previous dickishness, has a HUGE following of fans, and by proxy, the Heat, and I bet it doesn’t tarnish the NBA’s image one bit. (and for the record, I have no doubt of preferential treatment. I'm not a conspiricist, but I think it's fairly obvious-popular players get the calls. Popular player=more sales for NBA.)

As a business model, the NBA will continue to thrive in money and image due to their increasing promotion of a single player over the team. Easy to market and easier to draw in the casual fan. No one seems to care what you are like as a person. They just want to see you win. NBA's image won't get one patch of rust on its self gleamed image.

naptownmenace
06-22-2012, 12:53 PM
This doesn't hurt the NBA's image in the least. The day that Lebron decided to join Miami and try to become the NBA's version of the Super Friends was one of the best things that could've happened to the NBA.

The league is way more popular because of Lebron and the Miami Heat than they were 3 years ago. People actually talk about the NBA now all season long. It's amazing how popular the league is now.

It was great that the Mavericks won the championship last year and defeated the Miami Heat. It humbled them and gave the media and fans something to talk about all of this season. It made each of the Heat's playoff games all the more interesting to watch and ratings have been through the roof because of it. Lebron finally showed some maturity, put the team on his back, and showed why he's not just the best player in the world - he's the most complete basketball player since Magic Johnson.

This season couldn't have gone more perfectly for the NBA.

Slick Pinkham
06-22-2012, 12:57 PM
I respect your opinion immensely, Scott, but for the life of me I cannot understand the rationalization that in this series or season Lebron James and the Heat thrived on hogging the ball and only passing when forced to do so. Rather it seems to me that much of the critcism directed toward him in the past relies on his tendency to defer too much, rather than too little, late in games.

Lost in the barrage of 3-pointers by role players last night was that about half of them were set up by perfect Magic-like passes from Lebron, passes that arrived at the right time, on the shooter's correct hand, at the right height to lead the pass-catcher right into his shot.

As someone who was cheering for the Thunder but also loves the game of basketball, I found myself kind of awestruck by how well the Heat showed that they could play team basketball. When pushed in the past they used to rely on hero-ball, with one or the other jacking up a well-guarded shot. That aspect of their game has been tucked away, largely, and I think it may because someone made them realize that hero-ball doesn't win NBA championships.

Peck
06-22-2012, 12:59 PM
Well said Scott, that absolutely represents my feelings.

Also while in the finals the supporting cast may have stepped up people have to understand that for the most part in our series vs. the Heat it was superhuman two man show with almost nothing else. Sure one game Haslam had a good streak, one game Chalmers did good and a couple of games Batier played strong defense.

But make not mistake Wade/James had to have near 40 point games each for them to get past us. Now the caveat to that is Bosh was out so had he been around the likelyhood is that we might have taken one game.

Kid Minneapolis
06-22-2012, 01:04 PM
LeBron played an all-time great season this year. The turn-around from last year to this year was pretty amazing. His demeanor and overall game really transcended. That's about the only positive I can get from Miami winning a ring. Wade was a douche for parts of these playoffs. I guess I don't mind Bosh winning one, he seems like a decent dude. The way they came together though was just cheesy, with the Decision, and then the championship proclamations, and ceremonies.... just a lame way to go about winning a ring.

I'm glad they got knocked off their pedestal last year. But this year, LeBron shut up and put up, and I really can only admire him for that. Hopefully this new LeBron sticks around.

But there definitely is not the communal joy that the nation felt last year when a great underdog team like the Mavericks became entrenched in everyone's hearts.... this feels more like a Patriots championship --- dirty, and inevitable, but still wrong.

Dr. Awesome
06-22-2012, 01:13 PM
536

Skaut_Ech
06-22-2012, 01:38 PM
I respect your opinion immensely, Scott, but for the life of me I cannot understand the rationalization that in this series or season Lebron James and the Heat thrived on hogging the ball and only passing when forced to do so. Rather it seems to me that much of the critcism directed toward him in the past relies on his tendency to defer too much, rather than too little, late in games.


Well, PT, that's why I wrote-

"what galls us most is the perception that an arrogant, petulant superstar, coupled with an almost equally dangerous, at times, whiner, won a title based, ostensibly on one of those two hogging the ball and only passing when forced. Team ball seemed to go out the window with this team, in favor of two guys"

That's the image of this team. I'm not saying it's totally true. I think there has been an evolution over the season (Our series notwithstanding), but ostensibly, there is the perception this seems to be a two man team. I will say they are able to play team ball, but at its core, it's still give Lebron/Wade the ball and get out of the way. The key to me, was that for THIS series, Spoelstra beat it in their heads that only team ball would beat the Thunder and they ran with it.

(I don't mean to derail this conversation, but this title has absolutely cemented in my head that we need to use Danny as the basis of luring a truly dominant player to pair with Hibbert and go from there. Clear the bench coffers to do it, then pick up some complimentary role players to do it. We aren't the type of market to do something like that, but man, it's got me thinking.

ChicagoJ
06-22-2012, 01:43 PM
PacerTom is dominating this thread the way Mike Miller shot the ball last night.

Was I cheering for Miami? Hell no. Did I feel good for Mike Miller and to a lesser extent, James last night? Yes. Did this year's playoffs hurt the NBA's image? Not at all.

Its really hard to dislike LeBron on the court. Unselfish, great passer, willing defender, will get tough rebounds, and doesn't carry a "the refs will bail me out anyway" attitude like some of the recent NBA mega-stars have done. I compare James more to someone like Wilt, who dominated so much the league put in major rule changes to stop him, than Jordan who needed a lot of leeway from the referees because he traveled and/ or carried the ball nearly every possession. I think Jordan was much more of the hated villain on the court than I think of LeBron. Now I'm not a big fan of "the decision" or some of the other antics from those clowns, but that's not basketball... that's entertainment. And these guys are about as out of touch with reality as Tom Cruise.

naptownmenace
06-22-2012, 04:07 PM
I haven't read the entire thread so I'm sorry if someone already mentioned this but the moment Lebron stopped flopping and started using his incredible athleticism and strength to attack the basket (Game 4 against the Pacers) was the moment that my opinion of him changed. He finally grew up and ultimately I think that's the way people will look back at the 2012 season in a couple of years. It was the year he stopped acting like a entitled prima-donna and started dominating

The NBA is once again the 2nd most popular sport in the US and the Heat have a lot to do with that.

Ransom
06-22-2012, 04:49 PM
I haven't read the entire thread so I'm sorry if someone already mentioned this but the moment Lebron stopped flopping and started using his incredible athleticism and strength to attack the basket (Game 4 against the Pacers) was the moment that my opinion of him changed. He finally grew up and ultimately I think that's the way people will look back at the 2012 season in a couple of years. It was the year he stopped acting like a entitled prima-donna and started dominating

The NBA is once again the 2nd most popular sport in the US and the Heat have a lot to do with that.

So the Pacers awakened Lebron's inner champion? *ponders*

AesopRockOn
06-22-2012, 05:28 PM
Thanks for clarifying. I was going to say in response to this:


I would think, as an Indiana fan, their style of play is repugnant to us.

Have you SEEN our offense?

pogi
06-22-2012, 09:58 PM
If anything is ruining the image of the NBA, it's the officiating or rules, depending on how you look at it. Flopping, restricted charge circle, questionable flagrant foul calls. Those are the things hurting the NBA's image, not the Heat

This is my opinion exactly. If you watched most of the of finals (even though there were some questionable calls), the Heat played like a champion team. But in the Pacers and Boston series...too many games where in the first 7-8 minutes, Indy and Boston had like 4 or 5 fouls, and Miami had nada. To me, that's ridiculous.

pogi
06-22-2012, 10:14 PM
Its the reverse. He's destroying the NBA because of how good he is. He can turn a bad system and win a championship because he is just that damn good. Miami won a title with one of the smaller teams in the last 30 years because lebron can cover for everyone and mask obvious weaknesses.

That said, the guy does everything in a basketball court that you'd want to teach kids. To say he's hurting youth basketball is insane.

I agree. He's an awesome b-ball player. My disdain for him is him constantly putting his foot in his mouth, and saying outlandish ignorant things from time to time.

daschysta
06-23-2012, 01:23 AM
I actually like James. It's Wade that I have nothing but contempt for. LeBron doesn't need the refs to bail him out, he plays all world D, passes incredibly well and is unselfish for a player of his calibre. This year I honestly think he could have won replacing Wade with a lesser player, he won that championship by being incredibly dominant.

King Tuts Tomb
06-23-2012, 04:46 AM
This has been a pretty interesting thread with some really good responses, but I’ve noticed an underlying theme no one is addressing directly. The proverbial elephant in the room:

Resentment.

As Pacer fans, we are all about playing bball “the right way.”

First off, I would never feel resentment over another man's success. The Heat beat the Pacers fair and square on the court. Feeling resentment over that is sour grapes, and petty in my opinion.

I also have a few qualms with this article.
but for all of his great numbers, he lacked a certain respect for the game that came through any time I had a conversation with the guy.

From everything I've read, LeBron has an unbelievable respect and mind for the game of basketball. I've never talked to him in person but I've heard from those who have and they say he's a true student of the game. It's pretty hard not to be at that level.


For example, right after then-Cleveland Cavaliers GM Danny Ferry delivered LeBron the player he asked for – Shaquille O’Neal – I asked LeBron what he thought he could learn from the decorated All-Star and NBA champion. LeBron raised his eyebrows, kind of snickered and told me he had nothing to learn from “that old man.” Thinking he was surely joking, I asked again, only to be told that Shaq had a lot to learn from LeBron, not the other way around. (cough, cough)

First off, this sounds like a lot like a joke. I'm not totally buying that he was serious here. Bad sports columnists (Wojnarowski being a prime example) have a way of not understanding humor, or hyperbole or nuance or metaphor, and taking the literal meaning of every quote.

Second, NBA players do not respect veterans who can't play anymore. I heard Ric Bucher talking about this on a podcast a few years ago (I think it was either Bill Simmons or NBA Today). He said if you're not bringing it on the court, players aren't gonna respect you off it. Shaq wasn't bringing it, I have no doubt LeBron didn't think too highly of him.


Then there was the John Lucas charity game, held in December while the NBA lockout was still going on. Lucas changed the date of the game, which featured a locker room full of NBA stars including Derrick Rose and Zach Randolph, three times to accommodate LeBron’s schedule, only to be told at the last minute that LeBron wouldn’t show up if he didn’t get $20,000 for the effort. When Lucas pointed out that the game was a charity event for a non-profit benefiting homeless children in Houston and that no one was getting paid, LeBron bailed.
And of course, America watched as LeBron made a complete um, jerk, of himself during the Finals last season. Whether he was punking Dirk Nowitzki for playing with a 102 fever or prematurely celebrating time after time and often right in front of the Dallas Mavericks’ bench, it really became even easier to dislike LeBron.

"It was for charity" has become a nice little bludgeon in these last few years for athletes who don't show up and work for free. LeBron is busy, as we know because he played numerous summer charity games, as well as worked out for a week with Kevin Durant, and with Hakeem over the summer. Not sure I totally blame him for missing a Rockets assistant coach's charity game.

Kstat
06-23-2012, 06:27 AM
I agree with all but the last part. That's indefensible. If LeBron didn't want to play for charity, fine. He never should have accepted the invitation in the first place. Demanding payment to show up after they've already moved the date of the game to accommodate you is pompous beyond belief. There is no defense for this asshattery. None.

Once you commit to something like that, you don't get to back out without looking like an *******. Sorry.

King Tuts Tomb
06-23-2012, 06:58 AM
I agree with all but the last part. That's indefensible. If LeBron didn't want to play for charity, fine. He never should have accepted the invitation in the first place. Demanding payment to show up after they've already moved the date of the game to accommodate you is pompous beyond belief. There is no defense for this asshattery. None.

Once you commit to something like that, you don't get to back out without looking like an *******. Sorry.

It just sounds a little dubious to me. I've found no other mention of it on the internet. LeBron played plenty of other charity games last summer and I can't find anything about him making any money from them.

What makes more sense here, especially with that dollar amount (and I know I'm just speculating but I'm also not a professional NBA writer so I'll give myself a little leeway), is that LeBron's management asked them to comp the airfare first class as well as hotel, rental cars, etc. I can see this being the case far more than LeBron trying to pocket twenty grand from homeless orphans.

Not exactly the most noble behavior if true, but not something I truthfully care about at all.

Jeremy
06-23-2012, 09:08 AM
Why in the world would the best team in the league winning a championship hurt the NBA's image??

Pace Maker
06-23-2012, 05:20 PM
The league's current media darling winning the championship hurts the league's image? WTF? If anything, it would help bring in more casual fans.

As for the fans of other teams who resent the Heat, I think deep down we already knew that the Heat are going to win a championship eventually. They're just too talented no to. So I don't think this changes anything.

Media darling? Really?

You are aware we're talking about the Heat not the Thunder right?

Shade
06-23-2012, 06:25 PM
Though it certainly doesn't help, the NBA's image was tarnished long ago when it became apparent that this was a superstar's game and that, more often than not, the team that the NBA decided to give a "helping hand" to in the playoffs was going to emerge as the champion.

I hate the NBA. Absolutely hate it. The only reason I continue to watch it is because I love the Pacers and the sport of basketball itself. But the longer the NBA's shenanigans continue (biased officiating/treatment, multi-superstar teams, etc.) the more I question whether it's even worth it anymore.

I love basketball more than football, but the NFL is so much more enjoyable than the NBA that it's astonishing.

Shade
06-23-2012, 06:26 PM
Media darling? Really?

You are aware we're talking about the Heat not the Thunder right?

I would contend that the Thunder were more of a "casual fan darling." The media (ESPN, etc.) clearly loved to talk about the Heat.

pogi
06-23-2012, 09:35 PM
Media darling? Really?

You are aware we're talking about the Heat not the Thunder right?

For one, the Thunder didn't have its own section on ESPN.com called the "Heat Index". No other team had anything like that.

On TV, especially throughout the whole playoffs, it was a minute, maybe a minute and a half, of showing highlights and replays of other teams and other series; and then, it was nearly ten minutes of Miami highlights. Even when the Pacers or Boston won, it was like "Indiana won game two of the series...BUT CHECK OUT THIS DWAYNE WADE BLOCK, THIS LEBRON PUT-BACK DUNK, THIS MARIO CHALMERS THREE!" Don't get me wrong they were nifty, but according to highlights you'd think Miami was the only team doing these spectacular plays.

Also, when Bosh was hurt, he was still getting just as much air-time from the bench as players from other teams that were actually playing.

KennerLeaguer
06-24-2012, 09:05 PM
I would contend that the Thunder were more of a "casual fan darling." The media (ESPN, etc.) clearly loved to talk about the Heat.

If "clearly loved" meant bashing, questioning every move, ridicuing every loss, doubting the chracter and manhood of the players and being gleeful after evey loss, then I suppose you have a point. You must not have been paying atention to either ESPN or sports talk radio the lat year and a half.

KennerLeaguer
06-24-2012, 09:13 PM
For one, the Thunder didn't have its own section on ESPN.com called the "Heat Index". No other team had anything like that.


That's on sports fans/NBA fans for not being as active on ESPN as, say, the average NFL fans. The Heat got its "Index" because going into last season it was the only NBA team generating NFL-like interest and curiosity. Maybe ESPN should take some blame for that for its constant slurping of all things NFL.



On TV, especially throughout the whole playoffs, it was a minute, maybe a minute and a half, of showing highlights and replays of other teams and other series; and then, it was nearly ten minutes of Miami highlights. Even when the Pacers or Boston won, it was like "Indiana won game two of the series...BUT CHECK OUT THIS DWAYNE WADE BLOCK, THIS LEBRON PUT-BACK DUNK, THIS MARIO CHALMERS THREE!" Don't get me wrong they were nifty, but according to highlights you'd think Miami was the only team doing these spectacular plays.

Nonsense. The Lakers, the Thunder, the Celtics, the Clippers were getting just as much air time (both regular season and post season). The Spurs and the Pacers have a legitimate gripe based upon the relative lack of coverage during the regular season, but when the playoffs started it improved greatly.



Also, when Bosh was hurt, he was still getting just as much air-time from the bench as players from other teams that were actually playing.

As a person who actually watched and recorded a good portion of the playoffs I can say with certainty that was not the case. Maybe you were being sarcastic.

iogyhufi
06-24-2012, 09:38 PM
If "clearly loved" meant bashing, questioning every move, ridicuing every loss, doubting the chracter and manhood of the players and being gleeful after evey loss, then I suppose you have a point. You must not have been paying atention to either ESPN or sports talk radio the lat year and a half.

OTOH, after he won, they started in with the Jordan comparisons. I swear I saw somewhere "Now that Lebron has 1 ring, can he catch Kobe's 5?"

Eleazar
06-24-2012, 11:23 PM
Though it certainly doesn't help, the NBA's image was tarnished long ago when it became apparent that this was a superstar's game and that, more often than not, the team that the NBA decided to give a "helping hand" to in the playoffs was going to emerge as the champion.

I hate the NBA. Absolutely hate it. The only reason I continue to watch it is because I love the Pacers and the sport of basketball itself. But the longer the NBA's shenanigans continue (biased officiating/treatment, multi-superstar teams, etc.) the more I question whether it's even worth it anymore.

I love basketball more than football, but the NFL is so much more enjoyable than the NBA that it's astonishing.

Spot on with how I feel.

Slick Pinkham
06-25-2012, 10:33 AM
The Heat were both media darlings and media whipping boys, as the most scrutinized team in sports history, they were "failures, done, dead" after every loss and then the greatest ever after every win.

Listed to this Dan Lebatard rant. The first 1:15 covers the "heat are dead" media pronouncements:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DOynq6NKYx0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pogi
06-25-2012, 08:59 PM
Nonsense. The Lakers, the Thunder, the Celtics, the Clippers were getting just as much air time (both regular season and post season). The Spurs and the Pacers have a legitimate gripe based upon the relative lack of coverage during the regular season, but when the playoffs started it improved greatly.


If you re-read my post, I was talking about highlights, not games being shown...especially in the playoffs.

Pacersalltheway10
06-25-2012, 11:35 PM
I don't give a **** what anyone says. I hate watching LeBron play. I hate watching players take over games. I don't ****ing know why. I guess I just see basketball as a team sport. And I don't need 30 different people telling me my opinion is wrong. **** like this is why I hate most people in today's world.

Pacersalltheway10
06-25-2012, 11:38 PM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b0AGiq9j_Ak" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That ship sailed a long time ago.

I wouldn't know that was before my time.

Pacersalltheway10
06-25-2012, 11:58 PM
Yeah I'm not sure about that, he actually plays basketball the right way.

I'm not talking about his personal abilites, I'm talking about the way he fits into a team. He's the focal point, he does everything. Kids act like LeBron James through personality not playing ability. Only a select few can. I see these cocky ******** all the time who wear lebron jerseys and say they're him and don't pass the ****ing ball to anyone and some of them are really good but they won't get far with that attitude. kids never see his passes, all they see is the highlight dunks or blocks. Whether that's the media's fault or the team set up, idk. LeBron is just too good that it comes with a negative effect.