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BornReady#6
06-21-2012, 12:51 PM
This guy is one of the more interesting players in the draft imo. How do you think he would fit if we could work a way to get him? I think of him as a Mark Jackson type player, and looks like he could really help us out. I would even be interested in dealing Danny if we could get Lillard and a good replacement for Danny. Maybe do a sign and trade for EG and the #10 pick to New Orleans, and send them Danny and Collison.

Lillard, Hill
Gordon, Barbosa
PG, Dahntay
West, Tyler
Roy, Fab




Damian Lillard (http://nbadraft.net/players/damian-lillard)

Steagles
06-21-2012, 01:16 PM
Im not too high on him. I think of him as a George Hill-ish player. No thanks.

PacerPenguins
06-21-2012, 01:20 PM
Im not too high on him. I think of him as a George Hill-ish player. No thanks.

have u seen the guy shoot?.....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UyFJOEjZPFw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dzn0Z7tH7-8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CableKC
06-21-2012, 01:34 PM
....like a glove.

If we trade up to somehow get a mid-teens 1st round pick......I think the best PG that we can hope for would be Kendall Marshall.

The highest draft pick that we can probably get would be between the 7th to 11th spots.....but the higher the pick...the greater the cost ( as in give up Granger to secure the 7th spot....something that I do not think Bird will pay )...but I just don't see Lillard dropping past multiple Teams that need PGs.

Speed
06-21-2012, 01:35 PM
I'm all for getting the best players, but I really wish there was a pass first playmaker somewhere to be had. Not many, period, but that would really make a difference. I mean Rondo, Nash, Rubio types. Probably not likely, but still where I'd like to see them get to, at some point.

CableKC
06-21-2012, 01:42 PM
I'm all for getting the best players, but I really wish there was a pass first playmaker somewhere to be had. Not many, period, but that would really make a difference. I mean Rondo, Nash, Rubio types. Probably not likely, but still where I'd like to see them get to, at some point.
Is Lillard a PlayMaker?

What about Kendall Marshall?

Stupid question....but is a guy that "dishes out a high # of assists" the same as a Player that would be considered a "Playmaker"?

I don't get the sense that both are exact synonyms and don't always mean the same thing.

Steagles
06-21-2012, 01:48 PM
I meant in the way he plays. He is a better scorer but not exactly what we need, especially at the expense it would cost.

adamscb
06-21-2012, 02:15 PM
i'm not seeing the comparison to mark jackson. the former pacers player was pass-first, while lillard is a scorer. i'd much rather get kendall marshall.

Roaming Gnome
06-21-2012, 02:25 PM
I just want a point guard with that "crazy court vision". I'd almost sacrifice dead-eye shooting for someone that can distribute like a Rondo. Give me a floor leader because I'm tired of having points that can't point!

Jrod Jones
06-21-2012, 02:29 PM
Lillard just looks the part of a star. Slasher, Spot up shooter, 3pt range, efficient, size, athletic, work ethic; the kid has it all. Yes he played against lower competition but all of the natural ability is there to make it translate to the next level.

I think Marshall is going to be excellent as well, just a very different mold.

Lillard is definitely more of a scorer, in the mold of a guy like Drose. While Marshall definitely is a lot more like Jackson was, or Rondo is now, as a true pass first point guard.

PacerPenguins
06-21-2012, 02:40 PM
tony wroten jr could be that guy.... just sayin

Speed
06-21-2012, 02:51 PM
Is Lillard a PlayMaker?

What about Kendall Marshall?

Stupid question....but is a guy that "dishes out a high # of assists" the same as a Player that would be considered a "Playmaker"?

I don't get the sense that both are exact synonyms and don't always mean the same thing.

I agree, Liliard is a scorer by almost all reports. Kendall Marshall is the playmaker in this draft, just not sure how he translates to the NBA, but thats true of all these guys.

I also agree, high assist #s doesn't nescessarily mean playmaker. DC had great assist #s in NO, but not here. I think we'd all agree he's a scoring point. I'd really be happy if we could get a guy who knows how to run a fast break, period.

Speed
06-21-2012, 02:55 PM
tony wroten jr could be that guy.... just sayin

Maybe, the Rondo comparisons are intriguing.

Sparhawk
06-21-2012, 03:43 PM
tony wroten jr could be that guy.... just sayin

A 6'6" point sounds intriguing, but he sounds a lot like Lance.

*astrisk*
06-21-2012, 04:19 PM
Damian Lillard is like George Hill. He is a SCORER... We currently have NO wings who can get their own shot off the dribble. We need a fascilitator, finisher... Someone who can "Create" offense... Mark Jackson was a guy who could disect the defense, penetrate and find the open guy on the broken Defense, or finished with a floater...

That, is the guy we need... Granger is a spot-up shooter slasher, who will never get an uncontested shot off the dribble. PG, is similar, but his handles are too loose and erratic... The only guy who can really create a shot for himself, is Big Roy, who we can never manage to get him the ball in his spot consistently enough. That is on the Point Guard... And we just aren't very good at it.

pacer4ever
06-21-2012, 04:26 PM
I just want a point guard with that "crazy court vision". I'd almost sacrifice dead-eye shooting for someone that can distribute like a Rondo. Give me a floor leader because I'm tired of having points that can't point!

Damian Lillard is just that I laugh at some of these posts. I bet 95% of the board has never seen the dude play and don't understand his game. The dude had to score at Weber St. My complaint of his was he was way to unselfish at Weber st. He got his teammates involved they just weren't very good.

His court vision isnt great but it is better than what people on here are saying. The offense he played in was the biggest factor.

Damian Lillard is the type of guy who will do whatever it takes to help his team win. He isnt a shoot first guy he is a "make the correct play guy" Once this guy plays with talent watch and see he will be an 7+ assist guy in the NBA.


If he went to Illinois or any other big time school he would be the 2nd pick in the draft the dude is a complete player he has it all. Great skills? check. Great athlete? check. Great head on his shoulders? check. great leader? check.



BTW the kid was recruited as a pass first pg but he choose weber so he didnt really get to show that off.

It would be like if Rondo was on the Bobcats I doubt his assists numbers would be near what they are compared to playing with 3 HOFers. But I am guessing Rondo's scoring would go up because he would have to score.



Anyone who say Lillard isn't a playmaker is blind or hasn't watched the kid play.

pacer4ever
06-21-2012, 04:30 PM
Maybe, the Rondo comparisons are intriguing.

He plays 0% like Rondo if Wroten was wired the same way I could see the comparsion but up stairs is the biggest difference. Wroten wants to play hero ball and last year had a me not we mentilty Rondo is the exact opposite. If a team can convince him to change but that can be very hard and the player really has to be willing. Only way they are alike is they both cant shoot however Wroten Jr makes Rondo's shot look like Reggie Millers's :laugh:

3rdStrike
06-21-2012, 04:58 PM
From that workout video he reminds me a lot of Manu Ginobili, where Marshall reminds me of a poor man's Jason Kidd. In short, either would be a huge help to our slow, perimeter oriented team.

PaulGeorge
06-21-2012, 05:41 PM
I'm not interested in a PG unless they are coming off of the bench. PG is the hardest position to transition from college to nba. I'd rather just take Teague at 26 and hope we can trade collison to get another first round pick.

Kstat
06-21-2012, 05:59 PM
Lilliard is not lasting to #10. Portland or Toronto will scoop him up.

Really?
06-21-2012, 06:22 PM
I am actually getting tired of people comparing Kendall Marshall to Jason Kidd, there is a big difference there, and that is defense. If Kidd did not have his defense then he would be no where as successful as he was.

As far as Lillard P4E gave a really good analysis of him. All I will say is that people are sleeping on him, he could turnout average, but I think the chances that he turns out to be more than that are greater, and one key aspect to that is his work ethic, all the greats were hard workers.

Speed
06-21-2012, 06:36 PM
Lilliard is not lasting to #10. Portland or Toronto will scoop him up.

I can't see the most recent Chad Ford Draft update (insider), but the title leads you to believe Lilliard is climbing.

Really?
06-21-2012, 06:43 PM
I can't see the most recent Chad Ford Draft update (insider), but the title leads you to believe Lilliard is climbing.

Ford Mock 8.0 (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?73126-Just-for-conversation-Chad-Ford-Mock-8-0)

It has been posted here for a while, 8.1 only has changes to the top 4 guys

d_c
06-21-2012, 06:44 PM
I can't see the most recent Chad Ford Draft update (insider), but the title leads you to believe Lilliard is climbing.

Ford has Portland taking him at #6 because he won't be there at #11. No way Toronto passes on him.

And I wouldn't mind if the Warriors took him at #7 assuming the Big 6 (AD, Robinson, Beal, MKG, Barnes, Drummond) are all off the board. Taking Lillard at #7 would be taking BPA and it's always good to draft that way (plus he'd be popular in GS as the hometown kid).

Pacergeek
06-21-2012, 07:05 PM
I don't know much about the guy, but his HL video is impressive. I wouldn't mind him on the Pacers. I think the whole "distributor" vs "shoot first" pg debate is getting tiresome. The NBA has evolved away from the traditional pg that distributes. Guys like Nash, Rondo, and Kidd are the last of a dying breed of pg, and you don't really need a distributing pg to have success. OKC has made it to the finals with a ball-dominant pg in Westbrook. Miami has a point-forward running their offense. I wouldn't consider Tony Parker a distributor for San Antonio. Derrick Rose is anything but a distributor for Chicago. Most of the elite NBA teams don't have a distributor

pacer4ever
06-21-2012, 10:34 PM
I still think when it's said in done in 3 years he will be the 2nd or 3rd best guy from this draft. I see him playing a lot like Deron Williams without the divaness. I think he will be a cultural changer for whoever gets this kid he is very Kevin Durant like mentally humble and hardest working guy on his team and just wants to win. I hope he goes to Portland(#2 place after us :laugh:)I think with a solid draft Portland can really contend in the next few years. Lillard and Lamarcus would be a deadly combo in the PnR.

IndyPacer
06-22-2012, 12:09 AM
I think Lillard is going to be quite good. I underestimated his athleticism a bit, which in hindsight I think was due to him seemingly not getting a lot of elevation on layups and some of his shots, but he's capable of much more. Maybe he's just not wasting energy during easy, open shots. It's quite possible, as he's extremely efficient. Perhaps because he's so smooth and efficient it may be easy to underestimate how many things he does well. He's one of the best shooters in the draft. I think he'll be selected between #7 and #10.

Speed
06-22-2012, 05:59 AM
Ford Mock 8.0 (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?73126-Just-for-conversation-Chad-Ford-Mock-8-0)

It has been posted here for a while, 8.1 only has changes to the top 4 guys

Sorry, here is what I was talking about.

http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/215890682106224640

"Tons of info here why Lillard may rising, Drummond sliding + MKG, TRob, Beal, Barnes workout info http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/nam (http://t.co/nxpGMf02) (insider)"

Ace E.Anderson
06-22-2012, 08:36 AM
I don't know much about the guy, but his HL video is impressive. I wouldn't mind him on the Pacers. I think the whole "distributor" vs "shoot first" pg debate is getting tiresome. The NBA has evolved away from the traditional pg that distributes. Guys like Nash, Rondo, and Kidd are the last of a dying breed of pg, and you don't really need a distributing pg to have success. OKC has made it to the finals with a ball-dominant pg in Westbrook. Miami has a point-forward running their offense. I wouldn't consider Tony Parker a distributor for San Antonio. Derrick Rose is anything but a distributor for Chicago. Most of the elite NBA teams don't have a distributor


Took the words right out of my mouth. Over the course of NBA history, very few "pass first" PG's led their team to NBA titles (Isaiah and Magic are the only players that come to mind in the "modern era" of the NBA)

Now would it be nice to have a PG that can average over 5 APG? Lol Sure! But it's definitely far from mandatory in order to build a championship quality team.

Sparhawk
06-22-2012, 09:56 AM
Lillard would be a great fit. Just too bad it won't happen.

Really?
06-22-2012, 10:21 AM
Sorry, here is what I was talking about.

http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/215890682106224640

"Tons of info here why Lillard may rising, Drummond sliding + MKG, TRob, Beal, Barnes workout info http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/nam (http://t.co/nxpGMf02) (insider)"

Oh ok, here you go

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/8080883/2012-nba-draft-workout-buzz-top-prospects


The NBA individual workout circuit is almost complete. By now, most of the top players have completed their workouts or will complete them by the end of the week. We'll be watching closely over the next week to see if any workouts are added or if players are asked to come in for a second workout.

Here is a look at the top six players on our Big Board, with a rundown of where they have and haven't worked out.

1. Anthony Davis
Workouts: Hornets (6/19)
Analysis: It's hard to call this a "workout." Davis went in for a visit, met with team officials, had a physical and talked with reporters. It's not uncommon for the No. 1 pick to skip workouts altogether and just do visits. He doesn't need to go anywhere else. He's the No. 1 pick in the draft.

2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Workouts: Wizards (6/15), Bobcats (6/18), Cavaliers (6/20)

Analysis: Unless something changes, Kidd-Gilchrist is done working out. He won't be visiting the Kings, Blazers or anyone else.

Team sources (sorry, can't take the agent's word on these) all say he looked good in workouts. He's not much of a drills guy and didn't particularly shine in those. However, I'm told he shot the ball pretty well wherever he went. Where Kidd-Gilchrist really stood out was in the competitive parts of the workouts. I heard he was especially aggressive going against Bradley Beal in Charlotte on Monday. Kidd-Gilchrist did tweak his back a little toward the end of the Charlotte workout, but was fine in Cleveland.

I'm told that his workout may have moved the needle a little in his favor during that Charlotte workout. The whole team was wowed by his competitiveness there. He's in the mix along with Thomas Robinson and Harrison Barnes at No. 2.

The Wizards have really liked him all season. But with the recent trade that landed them Trevor Ariza as part of the deal, I think it points them strongly in the direction of Beal.

The Cavs have their list narrowed down to MKG, Beal and Barnes. It's very difficult to get a read right now on which way the Cavs are leaning. I think if Beal's there, he's the most obvious candidate. They need a 2 desperately and need the shooting. If it's Kidd-Gilchrist versus Barnes, it may be a toss-up.

I don't see Kidd-Gilchrist slipping past the Kings at 5. No, he didn't work out there, but I don't think the Kings really need him to. He's exactly what they need.

3. Bradley Beal
Workouts: Wizards (6/14), Cavaliers (6/16), Bobcats (6/18)
Analysis: Beal is also done working out for teams unless someone trades into the top four.

Beal has been terrific in all three workouts, according to team sources. He's shooting the ball very well and, like Kidd-Gilchrist, is a very aggressive and competitive player in workouts.

I don't, however, get the feeling that he's at the top of Charlotte's list. It sounds to me like Robinson, Kidd-Gilchrist and Barnes all have a slight edge there. That might have to do with Gerald Henderson. The Bobcats really like him and may feel the need to add talent at a position where they need more help.

As I wrote in Mock 8.1, I think Beal is a perfect fit in Washington thanks to the trade that swapped Rashard Lewis for Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor. The Wizards need both a 2 and a shooter, and Beal looks like the perfect fit.

If he doesn't go to Washington, I also think he's the slight favorite for the Cavs at No. 4. At this point, I think his agent is right in that he won't slide past the fourth pick.

4. Thomas Robinson
Workouts: Wizards (6/13), Cavaliers (6/20), Bobcats (6/22)
Analysis: After Robinson finishes his workout in Charlotte on Friday, he's also done working out, I'm told.

The workout in Charlotte will be a big one for him. He's going head-to-head against Andre Drummond there. The Bobcats really liked Kidd-Gilchrist in his workout because of his aggressiveness and toughness. If Robinson can match that intensity on Friday, I think he has the leg up to go No. 2.

I don't really see Robinson going to Washington or Cleveland based on team needs. The Wizards are loaded with bigs. The Cavs rolled the dice on Tristan Thompson at No. 4 last year and I doubt they'll bring in Robinson. He's too similar to Thompson.

I don't, however, think he needs to work out in Sacramento. If he's on the board at No. 5, I think the Kings take him, no questions asked. He'd be a very good complement to DeMarcus Cousins in the low post.

[+] Enlarge

AP Photo/Charlie Riedel
Barnes could go as high as No. 2 to the Bobcats.
5. Harrison Barnes
Workouts: Raptors (6/14), Cavaliers (6/16), Wizards (6/19), Bobcats (6/21)
Analysis: Barnes' last scheduled workout is today in Charlotte. He had another workout scheduled in Sacramento, but he's canceled it and it doesn't sound like he's rescheduling.

Barnes' biggest workout was Thursday in Charlotte. While Robinson and Kidd-Gilchrist would give the team toughness, defense and energy, Barnes would deliver something else the Bobcats desperately need: scoring. His two years playing for the in-state Tar Heels wouldn't hurt, either. As I'm writing this, I haven't yet received word on how he looked in his workout there, but he is in the mix at No. 2.

Barnes also had a strong workout in Washington on Tuesday. He went against John Shurna and Kris Joseph and by all accounts looked great. I do think he's an option for the Wizards at No. 3 if they decide to pass on Beal or if the Bobcats take Beal at No. 2. The Wizards believe Barnes can play some 2 and desperately need a great shooter.

Barnes also is a serious candidate to go No. 4 to the Cavs. As I've reported previously, the Cavs had Barnes No. 2 on their Big Board last year behind Kyrie Irving and is an obvious fit there. The team needs more shooters and could use the help at the 3. If Beal is off the board, I think it comes down to Barnes and Kidd-Gilchrist. While reports out of Cleveland said Beal bested Barnes at their workout together, team sources say the Cavs don't put a huge amount of stock in workouts and that both players were very good.

If Barnes slides past the Cavs, I think the Kings will scoop him up at No. 5.

6. Andre Drummond
Workouts: Kings (6/14), Blazers (6/16), Wizards (6/18), Cavs (6/20), Bobcats (6/22)
Analysis: Drummond is the odd man out trying to work his way into the top five. I'm told that his upcoming workout in Charlotte will be his last, though he might have to revise that if he believes the Kings and Blazers might pass on him at No. 5 and No. 6.

I've heard he had strong workouts in Sacramento and Portland, and I've also heard that the Wizards and Cavs workouts weren't as strong. Sports Illustrated's Sam Amick reported that Robinson destroyed Drummond in the Cavs workout. I haven't heard it described that strongly, but I do think Robinson was considerably more aggressive, and thus much better. Given the age difference, experience gap and different styles, you could expect that, however.

They'll have a chance to go head-to-head again in Charlotte. I do think Drummond gets a long look at No. 6 if he falls to the Blazers. However, it's not a guarantee. The team is also high on Damian Lillard and Dion Waiters and could decide they need a scoring guard over a big man project. If he slides past there, the Warriors and Pistons are his next two places to fall.

Other workout notes:
Dion Waiters sits No. 7 on our Big Board. Some have been reporting he didn't do any team workouts, but that isn't true. I was in Vegas to watch Waiters work out on May 22 and 23, and the Raptors' Bryan Colangelo and Ed Stefanski were in there with me on May 23. You can read about his workout here.

Weber State's Damian Lillard has been doing only solo workouts. So far he has worked out for the Raptors (6/12), Kings (6/13), Blazers (6/15) and Warriors (6/17). The Hornets have been trying to get him in, but he'll come only if they agree to a solo workout. It's an interesting strategy for Lillard; I'm not sure whether it's going to help him or hurt him.

Of the teams he's worked out for, it sounds like the Blazers are the highest on him. He had a very strong workout in Portland that ended with a dinner invite from Paul Allen. The question is whether the Blazers take him at No. 6 or No. 11. With teams like the Warriors, Raptors and Hornets also high on Lillard, he might not be around by the 11th pick.

Finally, Duke's Austin Rivers has kept his workout range very narrow. He's worked out for the Wizards (6/19), Blazers (6/20), Raptors (6/14) and Hornets (6/4). He also has an upcoming workout with the Cavs. That's essentially picks 3-11. I'm told he won't work out for the Bucks at No. 12 or the Suns at No. 13. While Rivers doesn't have a promise, I'm told he strongly believes he's not sliding out of the top 11.

MiaDragon
06-22-2012, 10:57 AM
I think Lillard is going to be quite good. I underestimated his athleticism a bit, which in hindsight I think was due to him seemingly not getting a lot of elevation on layups and some of his shots, but he's capable of much more. Maybe he's just not wasting energy during easy, open shots. It's quite possible, as he's extremely efficient. Perhaps because he's so smooth and efficient it may be easy to underestimate how many things he does well. He's one of the best shooters in the draft. I think he'll be selected between #7 and #10.

That's the first thing that stood out watching his two posted vids. I wonder how that lack of elevation, especially on his jump shot, will work against taller guys in the NBA. As for his passing, I cant say I was blown away with it, I saw one pass that made me say " nice vision and pass" everything one else was more of a "bail out" dish.

IndyPacer
06-22-2012, 12:30 PM
That's the first thing that stood out watching his to posted vids. I wonder how that lack of elevation, especially on his jump shot, will work against taller guys in the NBA. As for his passing, I cant say I was blown away with it, I saw one pass that made me say " nice vision and pass" everything one else was more of a "bail out" dish.

Most of what I've seen of him certainly did not suggest that he had a 39.6" vertical leap. I'm more impressed with his potential knowing that now.

His passing is one of the more difficult things to evaluate. First, he tries to complete the basic play rather than trying to get overly flashy. That is something I greatly admire, but it's also the reason many people have to be reminded Tim Duncan is the best power forward of all-time. It's easy to underestimate the smooth operators. I would agree with his supporters that he is probably capable of much more than was able to show at Weber State, but I'm not sure that I automatically agree that he will be a superstar passer, either. I would expect him to be a better passer than Teague but not as good as someone like Marshall or Machado. It's difficult to evaluate when he didn't have any great passing targets on his team.

AesopRockOn
06-22-2012, 05:37 PM
I feel like it's way too late to do a "That's What She Said!".