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View Full Version : Okafor and Ariza to the Wizards for Lewis and #46



BornReady#6
06-20-2012, 02:48 PM
The Hornets have sent center Emeka Okafor and forward Trevor Ariza to the Washington Wizards for forward Rashard Lewis and the No. 46 draft pick in next week’s draft, an NBA source said Wednesday.


The Hornets are expected to buy out Lewis’ contract for $13, which they can do prior to July 1.


It has begun!!


http://www.wwltv.com/sports/Hornets-ship-Okafor-Ariza-to-Wizards-for-F-Rashard-Lewis-draft-pick-159755895.html


o just saw this in the rss feed too, sorry!!

BRushWithDeath
06-20-2012, 02:50 PM
That is one hell of a salary dump.

LoneGranger33
06-20-2012, 02:50 PM
I was really hoping the Pacers would make a move for the 46th pick. I'm really disappointed that Larry couldn't get a deal done there.

Lance George
06-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Twitter / DraftExpress (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/215509659426107392)


Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress
Rashard Lewis' 23.8 million dollar contract can be bought out for 13.7 million before July 1st. Trade saves New Orleans around 30 million?

MillerTime
06-20-2012, 02:55 PM
Thats actually a really good trade for the Wiz

Since86
06-20-2012, 02:56 PM
Twitter / DraftExpress (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/215509659426107392)


WHOA! A little more than half of his contract?

IUfan4life
06-20-2012, 02:58 PM
Thats actually a really good trade for the Wiz

How?

graphic-er
06-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Damn i guess NOLA intends to keep Gordon after all. OR DO THEY???

indygeezer
06-20-2012, 03:01 PM
Wouldn't Lewis have to agree to the buy-out to make this happen? That's risking a ****-pot load of money to become a FA.

Speed
06-20-2012, 03:04 PM
So NO paid 13 million to dump Ariza and Okafor, yikes. Lesson to learn here about over paying mediocre talent.

BRushWithDeath
06-20-2012, 03:06 PM
Wouldn't Lewis have to agree to the buy-out to make this happen? That's risking a ****-pot load of money to become a FA.

Not if the last year of his contract is only partially guaranteed.

CableKC
06-20-2012, 03:09 PM
Thats actually a really good trade for the Wiz
Given what the Hornets are doing, I'd say that it was a really good deal for the Hornets. They dump Okafor and Ariza's 2 year contracts ( totalling about $41 mil ) for a $13 mil buyout of Lewis. That's a savings of about $28 mil.

Smoothdave1
06-20-2012, 03:10 PM
New Orleans has gone into straight salary dump mode. They also have Landry, Kaman and EJ as free agents and depending on how the Lewis buyout looks, should have a TON of cap space. Plus, factor in both #1 & #10, and they are well positioned. With that said, they won't be good for a few years and will look like an expansion team this year, but they can pick and choose who they add and won't be held down with a ton of bloated contracts.

CableKC
06-20-2012, 03:12 PM
Landry and Kaman are UFAs....I'd assume that if any Team made an offer at Market value for them...that they could get him.

graphic-er
06-20-2012, 03:14 PM
New Orleans has gone into straight salary dump mode. They also have Landry, Kaman and EJ as free agents and depending on how the Lewis buyout looks, should have a TON of cap space. Plus, factor in both #1 & #10, and they are well positioned. With that said, they won't be good for a few years and will look like an expansion team this year, but they can pick and choose who they add and won't be held down with a ton of bloated contracts. This is why I keep saying that you can't count on Nola matching any offer for Gordon. They are doing an honest rebuild around Davis. SO it doesn't make sense to pay somebody 13-15 million a year for the next 5 years when you are going to be absolutely dreadful for a couple years. I think a sign and trade for EJ is in the works. I hope Bird is working the phone. If you do a sign and trade then might even save some money and get him for less than max.

Steagles
06-20-2012, 03:15 PM
I like this move for NOLA, but it kind of looks like what the Sonics did to get KD and Westbrook before they left. Maybe they want to add talent by getting other salary dumps later down the road.

CableKC
06-20-2012, 03:19 PM
Thats actually a really good trade for the Wiz


How?
From a Talent POV......I can see that they made out fairly well on the trade....financially....I guess not.

They now have a Frontcourt that includes Nene ( at the PF spot ) and Okafor ( at the Center spot ) and have a solid Veteran SF. A starting lineup of Wall/JordanCrawford/Ariza/Nene/Okafor isn't that bad. Add in whoever they draft alongside Vesely, Singleton, Booker and Seraphin...and they have a solid lineup. The Wizards are clearly beyond "rebuilding" mode and into "compete" mode. Making moves like this to get veteran help makes sense.

Smoothdave1
06-20-2012, 03:19 PM
Wonder if Hibbert will now have another suitor? If you're NO, you could make a run at him, resign EJ and draft Davis #1 and someone like Lillard #10 and go with a lineup of:

Jack, EJ, Aminu, Davis, Roy and a young bench of Lillard, Henry, Smith, Vasquez, etc. You'd have a good young core and plenty of cap space and flexibility too.

CableKC
06-20-2012, 03:27 PM
This is why I keep saying that you can't count on Nola matching any offer for Gordon. They are doing an honest rebuild around Davis. SO it doesn't make sense to pay somebody 13-15 million a year for the next 5 years when you are going to be absolutely dreadful for a couple years. I think a sign and trade for EJ is in the works. I hope Bird is working the phone. If you do a sign and trade then might even save some money and get him for less than max.
They don't want to sign EJ to a $13 to 15 mil contract...but how is a S&T going to work involving the Pacers?

PG and his Rookie Contract or Granger and his $13 to 14 mil a year contract?

I'd think that if they were rebuilding that they would do it with young talent....including EJ. Unless they can get PG at his rookie Contract...if I weree the Hornets....I'd rather rebuild and spend the $$$ on a younger ( but injury prone ) EJ than Granger.

Justin Tyme
06-20-2012, 03:28 PM
Twitter / DraftExpress (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/215509659426107392)


Look'n better all the time for NOLA.

Why didn't Washington just do that and then amnesty Blatche?

IUfan4life
06-20-2012, 03:30 PM
From a Talent POV......I can see that they made out fairly well on the trade....financially....I guess not.

They now have a Frontcourt that includes Nene ( at the PF spot ) and Okafor ( at the Center spot ) and have a solid Veteran SF. A starting lineup of Wall/JordanCrawford/Ariza/Nene/Okafor isn't that bad. Add in whoever they draft alongside Vesely, Singleton, Booker and Seraphin...and they have a solid lineup. The Wizards are clearly beyond "rebuilding" mode and into "compete" mode. Making moves like this to get veteran help makes sense.
Do you think Okafor and Nene can play together though?

immortality
06-20-2012, 03:32 PM
Wizards have a pretty good defensive team now, Okafor, Nene, and Ariza. Should be interesting.

CableKC
06-20-2012, 03:36 PM
:shrug: I can see why they made the move, whether it was a good fit or not...I guess the Wizards are going to find out ;)

On another note....with Blatche near immovable and a Frontcourt that is made up of Nene/Okafore/Seraphin/Blatche/Booker....I'd like to see if we could make a run at Trevor Booker as a backup Frontcourt Player.

Lance George
06-20-2012, 03:42 PM
According to Hoops Hype's (http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm) and StoryTellers' (http://storytellerscontracts.com/) listed salaries...

Emeka Okafor: 2/$28,087,937
Trevor Ariza: 2/$14,986,240
Total: $43,074,177

Rashard Lewis: $23,790,000 ($13,699,551 buyout)

Sham Sports does list Okafor's 13-14 salary (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/hornets.jsp) ($14,487,500) in <s>purple</s> mauve, which means early termination, but from what I gather it's just a form of a player option, which Okafor's way too smart to decline. So, yeah, a massive salary dump for the Hornets.

I don't think it's a bad deal for either team, really.

New Orleans gets a huge salary dump and a chance to work the free agent market sooner, rather than later. Between that, Davis, Gordon, and pick #10, they're suddenly one of the more promising young teams in the league.

The Wizards get proven solid -- albeit overpaid -- talent to surround Wall, Vesley, and the 3rd pick with, to try and turn around their losing culture. It's a lot of salary, but it's short-term, with Okafor and Ariza both having two years remaining, so it's not a long-term risk.

Pingu
06-20-2012, 03:46 PM
If we do lose Roy to free agency, then we should look at Seraphin.

Dr. Awesome
06-20-2012, 03:51 PM
Actually seems like a good trade for both teams, which is rare.

NO loses the salary and moves a year or two ahead in the rebuilding process and Washington adds some talent to go with the 3rd pick and John Wall. They could be a playoff team next year.

Dr. Awesome
06-20-2012, 03:51 PM
If we do lose Roy to free agency, then we should look at Seraphin.

If we lose Roy in FA they should probably look for fans elsewhere.

wintermute
06-20-2012, 04:07 PM
I think the big news here is that the Hornets managed to offload 2 overpaid contracts, without having to give up an asset. In fact, they even received a second rounder. So much for all that talk of using the #10 pick to dump Okafor or Ariza, when they managed to dump BOTH for free.

I really don't get it for the Wiz. They just agreed to pay $21m a year to Okafor and Ariza, who are both solid players but not difference makers. They seriously couldn't get NOH to cough up more? I can't believe that there are a lot of bidders for those 2 guys.

PacerPride33
06-20-2012, 04:07 PM
how about rashard lewis for cheap?

Trader Joe
06-20-2012, 04:09 PM
Uh, I think this is clearly a move from the Hornets' new owners to get the **** out of New Orleans. By carrying a nice trim and cheap salary for a few years, they have more money to facilitate the building of a new arena in Seattle along with the other expenses of a move.

Works out nicely for the NBA too from a divisional standpoint. Hornets take OKC's spot in the Northwest division, and OKC takes the Hornets' spot in the Southwest division.

Cactus Jax
06-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Uh, I think this is clearly a move from the Hornets' new owners to get the **** out of New Orleans. By carrying a nice trim and cheap salary for a few years, they have more money to facilitate the building of a new arena in Seattle along with the other expenses of a move.

Works out nicely for the NBA too from a divisional standpoint. Hornets take OKC's spot in the Northwest division, and OKC takes the Hornets' spot in the Southwest division.

No way that Tom Benson (Saints owner) would take the Hornets and move them out of New Orleans, he'd be hated for a long time.

vnzla81
06-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Another example that there are ways to get rid of bad contracts.


Not a bad deal for either team, NO is going to draft Davis and didn't need Okafor and The Wizards are going to finally play Nene at PF with Okafor as the center, Wall, Crawford, Ariza, Nene,Okafor is not a bad starting five.

Trader Joe
06-20-2012, 04:15 PM
No way that Tom Benson (Saints owner) would take the Hornets and move them out of New Orleans, he'd be hated for a long time.

Does New Orleans really care about the Hornets? I just don't get that vibe, but maybe you're right.

Cactus Jax
06-20-2012, 04:19 PM
Does New Orleans really care about the Hornets? I just don't get that vibe, but maybe you're right.

They may not care that much currently but once you get rid of a team, people get more upset, like what happened to Seattle.

Justin Tyme
06-20-2012, 04:24 PM
:shrug: I can see why they made the move, whether it was a good fit or not...I guess the Wizards are going to find out ;)

On another note....with Blatche near immovable and a Frontcourt that is made up of Nene/Okafore/Seraphin/Blatche/Booker....I'd like to see if we could make a run at Trevor Booker as a backup Frontcourt Player.


I truly believe if the Wiz can't trade Blatche this off season they will amnesty him. I don't see Booker available when this happens.

I know many don't like or want Blatche, but he is a BIG with althleticism and length that can play the 4 & 5. If could be the b/u 5 and 4 coming off the bench for the Pacers. A new home and scenery might be a good tonic for him. He might not be that expensive to get, and not to mention better than a raw untested rookie or journeyman BIG.

Doddage
06-20-2012, 04:29 PM
This move is terrible financially for the Wiz but I get why they did it. That's a lot of future salary to commit to, whereas buying out Lewis would have only put them on the hook for $10 mil next year. It puts about $20.6 mil worth of guaranteed salary for next season, and the season after that, a $14.5 mil Okafor ETO and $7.7 mil Ariza player option (both of which they'll most likely keep).

Aside from the financial aspect of it, it's similar to the Nene trade where their intention was to change the culture of the team. It's probably important to surround a potential franchise player in John Wall with the right influences.

Sparhawk
06-20-2012, 04:35 PM
I just feel this was a great move for NO, but not so good for the Wiz. The Wiz are rebuilding, so why add overpaid veterans?

I'd trade Hans for Blatche. That tells you just how much I like Hans. Blatche at least has talent. If the Pacers can turn Lance into a better citizen, I'm sure they can do the same for Blatche.

PR07
06-20-2012, 05:00 PM
Yeah, I don't understand this one for the Wizards. Sure, you need some veterans around the locker room, but do you need to take on that much salary to do it? Okafor and Ariza are both solid contributors, but they aren't exactly making the Wizards anything more than what they already are...a bottom feeder.

shags
06-20-2012, 05:01 PM
Another example that there are ways to get rid of bad contracts.


Not a bad deal for either team, NO is going to draft Davis and didn't need Okafor and The Wizards are going to finally play Nene at PF with Okafor as the center, Wall, Crawford, Ariza, Nene,Okafor is not a bad starting five.

That also means, as Chad Ford said, that Beal will be the pick for Washington at 3. Crawford's better coming off the bench. Kidd-Gilchrist could slip to 5.

naptownmenace
06-20-2012, 05:08 PM
I just feel this was a great move for NO, but not so good for the Wiz. The Wiz are rebuilding, so why add overpaid veterans?

I'd trade Hans for Blatche. That tells you just how much I like Hans. Blatche at least has talent. If the Pacers can turn Lance into a better citizen, I'm sure they can do the same for Blatche.

There are much better players available than Blatche and they can be had for less money or similar money. Antwan Jamison immediately comes to mind.

CableKC
06-20-2012, 05:17 PM
I just feel this was a great move for NO, but not so good for the Wiz. The Wiz are rebuilding, so why add overpaid veterans?
Cuz they....just like the Warriors...are tired of rebuilding and want to finally compete?

xBulletproof
06-20-2012, 05:26 PM
Cuz they....just like the Warriors...are tired of rebuilding and want to finally compete?

That would require acquiring players that allow you to compete. That's not Okafor and Ariza. :laugh:

rock747
06-20-2012, 05:43 PM
I kind of like it from the Wizards perspective.... They have a solid starting line up now, a very strong defensive line up.

CableKC
06-20-2012, 06:22 PM
That would require acquiring players that allow you to compete. That's not Okafor and Ariza. :laugh:
Well, you gotta start somewhere. They need vets on their Team just like we did. We got GH ( a good start ) and Barbosa ( a rental that helped us in the regular season ).

idioteque
06-20-2012, 06:45 PM
This is either going to be really good for the Wizards, or they are going to become a crappier version of the Knicks. Either way, Ariza and Okafur are only on the books for two years.

idioteque
06-20-2012, 06:46 PM
That would require acquiring players that allow you to compete. That's not Okafor and Ariza. :laugh:

Compete for the title, no. But complete for a playoff spot, yes I think so. Wizards fans do support the team even when they are only mediocre.

Turning Zombie Gilbert Arenas and his terrible contract into 2 years at the most of Okafor and Ariza (and then lots of capspace, if you don't trade them as expirings) isn't too bad.

LA_Confidential
06-20-2012, 06:57 PM
Its a good move for NO for obvious financial reasons but when I saw this news scroll accords my screen, I couldn't help but think that the Wizards got a little better. You have to remember, basketball is about putting the best talent that you can get on the floor together. As someone mentioned earlier, I think ideoteque, turning a hobbled Arenas and corpse of Rshard Lewis into two serviceable players is a win. Albeit their contracts are toxic but it's a step in the right direction as they both have short term deals.

pacer4ever
06-20-2012, 07:08 PM
Uh, I think this is clearly a move from the Hornets' new owners to get the **** out of New Orleans. By carrying a nice trim and cheap salary for a few years, they have more money to facilitate the building of a new arena in Seattle along with the other expenses of a move.

Works out nicely for the NBA too from a divisional standpoint. Hornets take OKC's spot in the Northwest division, and OKC takes the Hornets' spot in the Southwest division.

Unnecessary The reason NOLA took so long to sell was to get a local guy or a buyer who wouldn't move the team. Benson signed a lease btw to keep the team in nola until at least 2024. Not to mention he just broke ground on a new practice facilty. You should do research before making ignorant comments like this NOLA isn't going anywhere. However the Hornet name is they will rebrand b4 next season. This is just a great trade that cut 2 years on rebuilding. Benson wants to win and this trade was brillent for Dempts and nola

Justin Tyme
06-20-2012, 09:16 PM
There are much better players available than Blatche and they can be had for less money or similar money. Antwan Jamison immediately comes to mind.


When did Jamison start being able to play the 4 & 5?? The reasoning behind Blatche is he can! He's younger and more physical as well than Jamison. I don't see Jamison being cheaper than Blatche once Blatche is amnestied either.

billbradley
06-20-2012, 09:50 PM
Hollinger ESPN Insider article...


Wizards make cap room disappear


The good news for Washington Wizards fans is that general manager Ernie Grunfeld is building a winner. The bad news is that he's doing it in Minnesota and New Orleans.

Seriously, can anyone explain why this guy is still running a basketball team?

Grunfeld engineered yet another numbingly brutal trade today when he sent Rashard Lewis and a second-round pick to the New Orleans Hornets for Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza.

The deal is classic Grunfeld -- taking a "win now" approach with a team that's not even close to win-now mode, overpaying veterans, mismanaging the cap, and basically throwing slop at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Okafor and Ariza combine to make $42 million this year and next, soaking up all of Washington's cap space for this year and next. The departing Lewis was due $22.7 million, but only $13.9 million of that was guaranteed, so the Wizards ate close to $30 million in salary with this deal.

This effectively takes the Wizards out of any potential free-agent deals beyond the midlevel; additionally, it also takes them out of amnesty auction bids, or cap space trades, or any other maneuvers that rebuilding teams typically take to begin stockpiling talent.
The big impact is a year from now. Okafor has an early termination option for $14.6 million after the season that he'd be nuts to exercise, while Ariza has a similar one for $7.7 million. Barring outrageous improvement by either, we can presume they're on Washington's books for 2013-14 at a cost of $22 million, compared with the $0 the Wizards owed Lewis; this puts them over the cap even if they amnesty Andray Blatche. (Another brilliant Grunfeld maneuver, by the way.) In fact, depending on how they use their exception money the next two summers, they may need to amnesty Blatche a year from now just to avoid the luxury tax.

For that, they get a middling but overpaid starting center, and a grossly overpaid wing defender with perhaps the worst shot selection in basketball. Alas, his only rival in that department will be starting alongside him. Which brings us to another reason to hate this trade: It did nothing to solve Washington's biggest problem, shooting. If anything, it exacerbated it.

This isn't quite as awful as the deal Grunfeld made two years ago when he traded the fifth overall pick to Minnesota for Mike Miller and Randy Foye, thinking those two were the key missing pieces separating his 19-win team from the championship, but it follows the same misguided logic. He has a bad team with a bad coach and obvious, glaring weaknesses, and somehow he thinks blowing his cap space on two middling, overpaid veterans will push the Wizards to the promised land.

By the way, if you're taking the "they had to make John Wall happy" angle, keep in mind that he is a restricted free agent, and that by design the Wizards have all the leverage in this negotiation. Basically, no team has ever lost a player it truly wanted to keep at this stage; it's only years later, when they could become unrestricted free agents, that we've seen players like LeBron James, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Carmelo Anthony force their way out.

This wasn't supposed to happen when Ted Leonsis took over; he had followed a patient rebuilding program with the NHL's Washington Capitals and everybody expected the same for the Wizards. Instead he inexplicably extended Grunfeld's contract based on one halfway-decent month to end the season while half the teams around the Wizards were tanking, and then signed off on this travesty.

He overpaid for the assets, too. Remember, a few weeks ago people were talking about how New Orleans might use the 10th pick to persuade somebody to take Okafor and Ariza off its hands. Instead the Hornets are keeping the 10th pick and got rid of both contracts. How hard do you suppose they laughed when Washington agreed to throw in a second-round pick too?

As for the Hornets, this was a wondrous move that offloaded two problem contracts, cleaned out room in a crowded frontcourt for rookie Anthony Davis, and gives them almost unlimited cap room going forward. Once they waive Lewis, the Hornets will be far enough under the cap that they could amnesty Jarrett Jack, offer Deron Williams a max contract, and still re-sign Eric Gordon.

It's unlikely D-Will would take that bait, but the real fun comes a year later when Jack and Lewis are off New Orleans' books entirely; if the Hornets offer Gordon about $10 million a year, they would still have nearly $30 million in cap space. Of course, they still need to use this space to get actual players, but between trades and free agency they are in position to put a potent team around Davis fairly quickly. Also, some chap named Chris Paul will be a free agent next summer if he doesn't extend his contract.

Grunfeld said the Wizards are better than they were yesterday, and in a very narrow sense he's correct: This deal does incrementally improve his roster. But there are far more efficient ways to produce the same improvement, and instead Grunfeld has essentially handcuffed the franchise to two more years of mediocrity so he could win a news conference.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/wizhornetsdeal-120620/new-orleans-hornets-get-better-end-deal-washington-wizards

spreedom
06-20-2012, 10:01 PM
I like the move for both teams. NOLA obviously gets rid of guys that aren't in their long-term plans, and Washington gets two strong defensive players that can start on a lower-seeded playoff team. Okafor, for all of the talk about how much of an underachiever he is, is definitely one of the 5 best post defenders in the league and has 12/10 career averages. For about $12M a year he's priced right for an above-average (top 10-12) starting center. If he and Nene can play extended minutes together and stay healthy, I don't see any reason why Washington can't compete for a playoff spot. And if they make the playoffs, even as a first-round sweep, it's worth spending your cap space for a couple of years to make that happen.

vnzla81
06-21-2012, 12:53 AM
I agree with this.

@kevinarnovitz: Today's Washington-New Orleans deal reaffirms that, in the NBA, there's no such thing as an untradeable contract.

CableKC
06-21-2012, 12:58 AM
I agree with this.

@kevinarnovitz: Today's Washington-New Orleans deal reaffirms that, in the NBA, there's no such thing as an untradeable contract.
I think that he was just reading your earlier post and just re-treaded it into a tweet ;)

vnzla81
06-21-2012, 01:13 AM
I think that he was just reading your earlier post and just re-treaded it into a tweet ;)

I think he forgot the "but the Pacers players part" :laugh:

pacer4ever
06-21-2012, 02:07 AM
I agree with this.

@kevinarnovitz: Today's Washington-New Orleans deal reaffirms that, in the NBA, there's no such thing as an untradeable contract.

that was a Murleavy esk trade by Washington I think Grunfeld should be fired on the spot. If I was his owner I would of fired him on the spot if he came to me with that garbage idea. Just cut Lewis and keep rebuilding now they just turned into a mediocre over paid team (unless Wall turns it up a ton and Beal plays better than expected).

By the team these guys expire Wall will get paid and they wont have cap room very silly.

I dont get this at all Sephphin is ready for an emeka type role now they have a guy making 14x him doing virtually the same thing. Trevor I like but way overpaid could get a player like him in free agency for 3m or so. Only way I would of done this is if NOLA threw in #10 and another pick and Aminu.

Wizards got fleeced.

Peck
06-21-2012, 02:39 AM
I am not saying this is a good trade for the Wizards because from all indications it probably is not, however I want to make the statement that some teams (Wolves, Warriors, Wizards) hmmmmm.... now that I think abou it all teams that start with a W. Anyway some of these teams need to quit re-building and start looking to make some steps towards being at least a good team.

Look the Wizards have already had the # 1 overall pick and as you can see it has not changed their fortune at all. IMO Grunfield is correct in attempting to assemble a playoff team, if not a championship team. There's only ever one championship team a year and let's face it if you don't have one of the top 3-4 players in the NBA your probably not going to see a title so at some point you have to at least accept winning some games and making the playoffs as a goal.

I think the danger with teams like these is that losing so much breeds a losing culture and from what I can tell both the Warriors & Wizards are tiring of doing that.

Again, I'm not saying this is a good trade. I'm just saying that instead of tanking again or holding on to that magical cap space waiting on a big name free agent who is not going to come to a losing team that maybe getting some veteran players isn't a bad idea.

Ariza is not bad btw. I like him as a solid 3 and if Okafur could ever not be injured all season he isn't half bad himself.

Also if they are both on 2 year deals doesn't this make them huge expiring trade chips next season?

wintermute
06-21-2012, 03:45 AM
Look the Wizards have already had the # 1 overall pick and as you can see it has not changed their fortune at all. IMO Grunfield is correct in attempting to assemble a playoff team, if not a championship team. There's only ever one championship team a year and let's face it if you don't have one of the top 3-4 players in the NBA your probably not going to see a title so at some point you have to at least accept winning some games and making the playoffs as a goal.

I think the danger with teams like these is that losing so much breeds a losing culture and from what I can tell both the Warriors & Wizards are tiring of doing that.


Directionally, I agree with what the Wiz are doing. For example, I like their Nene trade last year. But this move just... sucked.



Again, I'm not saying this is a good trade. I'm just saying that instead of tanking again or holding on to that magical cap space waiting on a big name free agent who is not going to come to a losing team that maybe getting some veteran players isn't a bad idea.


I'd agree with your statement except they're obviously not waiting on big names if they're willing to settle for Okafor and Ariza for $21m a year :laugh: My point would be that they can get role players of this level much cheaper in FA. Now they can't, because they just used their cap space on overpaid contracts.



Also if they are both on 2 year deals doesn't this make them huge expiring trade chips next season?

Not as good a trade chip as cap space though, which is why this move sucked for them. Just see how a team like, well, the Pacers parlayed their cap space last season. That's how you maximize use of cap space, without relying on big names.

Wage
06-21-2012, 04:01 AM
Directionally, I agree with what the Wiz are doing. For example, I like their Nene trade last year. But this move just... sucked.

I have a hard time understanding how anyone could be OK with the Nene trade, yet hate this move. Of the three contracts, Nene's is the worst. Not to mention the fact that the Wizards had to part with an actual asset to pick up that fugly contract.

If the Wizards are competing for a 7 or 8 seed next year though, all of these contracts will be money well spent.

King Tuts Tomb
06-21-2012, 04:10 AM
Ariza-Okafor-Nene not a bad defensive front court, although $35 million a year should probably buy more than not a bad defensive front court.

wintermute
06-21-2012, 04:56 AM
I have a hard time understanding how anyone could be OK with the Nene trade, yet hate this move. Of the three contracts, Nene's is the worst. Not to mention the fact that the Wizards had to part with an actual asset to pick up that fugly contract.

If the Wizards are competing for a 7 or 8 seed next year though, all of these contracts will be money well spent.

Speaking for myself, I think Nene is an above average PF/C, who is making less per year than Okafor by the way. 5 years is long but manageable, and it's just market value for Nene. Okafor and Ariza, on the other hand, I consider to be mediocre players for their positions who are payed a lot of money. Your opinion is obviously different.

xIndyFan
06-21-2012, 08:35 AM
. . . Also if they are both on 2 year deals doesn't this make them huge expiring trade chips next season?

i cannot defend the Nene contract. It was a bad one and will continue to be so. But like you say, this is only a 2 yr deal. Odds are they were not going to get a better player with all that cap space they saved up. Look at all the big deals the Pacers made with their cap space. Look how much good it did Minnesota to make all the cap space deals they made. Plus cap space is not getting you any rebounds.

Both of these guys would be rotation players for the Pacers. They can play some. They are just overpaid. Washington just cashed in their cap space for a couple of years. :shrug: The alternative is paying a guy $13M not to play for you.

vnzla81
06-21-2012, 09:07 AM
Nene overpay at 13mil? I don't know if you guys know this but centers get pay in the NBA and especially a center like Nene.

Since86
06-21-2012, 09:34 AM
Nene overpay at 13mil? I don't know if you guys know this but centers get pay in the NBA and especially a center like Nene.

Which is why the NBA had to go through the nasty CBA fight...

It honestly boggles my mind to have to sit through that painful experience and have to wonder if we would see basketball this year, and then people start advocating to do business in the exact same manner that lead to such a horrible lockout.

vnzla81
06-21-2012, 12:40 PM
And to the people that keeps comparing this trade to the Murhpleavy trade stop it, Okafor>>>> Murphy, Okafor is a double double machine that can block shots and play D, Ariza >>Dunleavy, not only that but their contracts are not as long as the ones we got when Murphleavy still had 4 years left.

I don't know about the Wizards salary or anything like that but if I was then I trade the #2 pick for an stablished player, Iguadola, Gay, Deng, EJ, etc.

OlBlu
06-21-2012, 12:43 PM
And to the people that keeps comparing this trade to the Murhpleavy trade stop it, Okafor>>>> Murphy, Okafor is a double double machine that can block shots and play D, Ariza >>Dunleavy, not only that but their contracts are not as long as the ones we got when Murphleavy still had 4 years left.

I don't know about the Wizards salary or anything like that but if I was then I trade the #2 pick for an stablished player, Iguadola, Gay, Deng, EJ, etc.

You may be right but that two pick will excite the fan base more than getting a veteran..... I like the trade for Washington too...:cool:

vnzla81
06-21-2012, 12:55 PM
You may be right but that two pick will excite the fan base more than getting a veteran..... I like the trade for Washington too...:cool:

The thing is that I think they already have their number one guy in Wall, get a number 2 in Gay,Iguadola, etc plus the guys they have and they could make some noise.

OlBlu
06-21-2012, 01:01 PM
They have a front court now and these guys are better than most people give them credit for. Yes, they are overpaid but so are a lot players. I agree that the veteran would make a lot of sense but, again, there is that fan base and the chance that the pick might turn out to be a superstar. Those players you mentioned won't be...:cool:

vnzla81
06-21-2012, 04:27 PM
Great explanation of the trade on this article.


http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/rss.jsp;jsessionid=AE83462E1114018CA8497284B71A0EA D?rssid=578561&item=http%3a%2f%2fwww.washingtonpost.com%2fFragmen t%2fSysConfig%2fWebPortal%2ftwpweb%2frss%2fmobile% 2fblog-entry.jpp%3fid%3d1001.4.2726639185&cid=-1&spf=1

Peck
06-21-2012, 04:56 PM
Good article and goes a long way in explaining this.

pacergod2
06-21-2012, 07:00 PM
I actually really like this move for Washington. This does not effect the important aspect of their future cap space, which is to end up re-signing all of their young guys. These contracts expire before they have to pay anyone. Secondly, this team is going to have one of the deepest front courts in the league. They are going to be able to throw four or five bigs at you who can rebound and defend depending on their rotation. Ariza is a monster upgrade for them on the perimeter for someone who can log big minutes and provide defense and deflections. This gives the Wizards a solid 9-10 man rotation. Guys like Singleton, Seraphin, Veseley, and Booker will all be able to get their minutes still and it gives them a couple of level headed veterans for that locker room. I remember seeing how bad the chemistry was on the Wizards last year to the point where John Wall (being their best player) didn't have a prayer at getting any respect in the locker room. At face value, the Wizards are spending a ton of money unnecessarily. At the same time, this is the type of move that really can get a franchise over the hump and the young guys feeling like they can actually win some games. I really like the move by Washington.

NO obviously wins this deal because they saved $28 million, but this team IMO is starting their rebuild from scratch whereas Washington is already a couple of years into their and are at a completely different stage of the game.

Win-win.

Edit: I guess I didn't say a whole lot that that article didn't already say.

xBulletproof
06-21-2012, 09:26 PM
I agree with this.

@kevinarnovitz: Today's Washington-New Orleans deal reaffirms that, in the NBA, there's no such thing as an untradeable contract.

As long as you're trading your overpaid crap for someone else's overpaid crap. Sure, anything can be moved. Doesn't mean it'll help.

Granted, I have to realize I'm talking to the king of making trades just for the sake of making trades. So I shouldn't be shocked you find it to be a quality way to run a team.

Cactus Jax
06-22-2012, 01:41 AM
Wizards still aren't making the playoffs with this move. They were better off cutting Lewis for the 13 million, and doing some free agent moves than getting overpaid guys.

MyFavMartin
06-22-2012, 10:06 AM
that was a Murleavy esk trade by Washington I think Grunfeld should be fired on the spot. If I was his owner I would of fired him on the spot if he came to me with that garbage idea. Just cut Lewis and keep rebuilding now they just turned into a mediocre over paid team (unless Wall turns it up a ton and Beal plays better than expected).

By the team these guys expire Wall will get paid and they wont have cap room very silly.

I dont get this at all Sephphin is ready for an emeka type role now they have a guy making 14x him doing virtually the same thing. Trevor I like but way overpaid could get a player like him in free agency for 3m or so. Only way I would of done this is if NOLA threw in #10 and another pick and Aminu.

Wizards got fleeced.

I'm a Pacers fan that lives in the DC area and I liked the trade. It adds on top of the trade for Nene. The fans here have suffered for quite a while and it's nice to see the new ownership committed to winning. Cutting Lewis would have cost $13 million and then the additional costs of bringing in FAs might or might not have added beyond what they took on.

I like seeing them picking up some good, solid veteran players that play both ends of the court. Okafor doesn't need touches and Wall will be able to kick or dump once he gets in the lane. The contracts don't last long, so it's a trial period that if it doesn't work out, so what? The team should be making the playoffs and helping to build the fan base.

It'll be interesting to see who they get at #3. Beal and MKG are projected as possible choices for Charlotte along with Robinson. I'd prefer MKG for his defense and size but is more a SF. Neither are good outside shooters. Wouldn't mind seeing them trading back and picking up Terrence Ross who I think would be a good complimentary role player to Wall.

pacergod2
06-22-2012, 11:19 AM
Wizards still aren't making the playoffs with this move. They were better off cutting Lewis for the 13 million, and doing some free agent moves than getting overpaid guys.

I think the Wizards could definitely contend for a playoff spot. Especially with as many young guys as they have in an 82 game season. They will have fresh legs to throw at people and that takes huge pressure off of Nene and Okafor playing too many minutes, which will help injury management. I could see the Wiz playing their way into an eight seed next year. They would have to be one of the best of the rest in the East however to get there.

BringJackBack
06-22-2012, 11:36 AM
All I know is that outside of 2012 (They just sucked), every ****in' year Washington is supposed to be a playoff team, and it never happens.

pacer4ever
06-22-2012, 12:05 PM
All I know is that outside of 2012 (They just sucked), every ****in' year Washington is supposed to be a playoff team, and it never happens.

then they try to go for it and make deals like this and the awful trade of Randy Foye and Mike Miller for their #5 overall. They shoot themselves in the foot quite a bit.

vnzla81
06-22-2012, 12:43 PM
As long as you're trading your overpaid crap for someone else's overpaid crap. Sure, anything can be moved. Doesn't mean it'll help.

Granted, I have to realize I'm talking to the king of making trades just for the sake of making trades. So I shouldn't be shocked you find it to be a quality way to run a team.

The DC trade disagrees with this, the Zbo trade disagrees with this, the Gasol trade disagrees with this, this Wizards trade disagrees with this, I could bring more example but I don't the have time.

Ace E.Anderson
06-22-2012, 03:30 PM
Wizards still aren't making the playoffs with this move. They were better off cutting Lewis for the 13 million, and doing some free agent moves than getting overpaid guys.

Just because the two guys they took back in the trade are overpaid it doesnt take away from the fact that they are two veterans who have played in the playoffs before. Both players appear to be pretty good "locker room" guys, and pride themselves defensively. They aren't world-beaters by any stretch of the imagination, but they give the young Wizards team some much needed veteran leadership.

Justin Tyme
06-22-2012, 04:36 PM
Cutting Lewis would have cost $13 million.

Yes, but it would have saved them "10 mil". Lewis played little last year, and he's owed almost 23 mil this year, so cutting Lewis would have saved the Wiz 10 mil by not having to pay him 23 mil.

pacergod2
06-22-2012, 05:43 PM
Yes, but it would have saved them "10 mil". Lewis played little last year, and he's owed almost 23 mil this year, so cutting Lewis would have saved the Wiz 10 mil by not having to pay him 23 mil.

And with that money the Wiz would have to fill two extra roster spots somehow. There is a salary floor now and these two guys will be starters most likely. I just hope this team learns how to offensive rebound long jump shots, because Wall, Ariza, and Crawford will be bricking a lot of outside jumpers.

LA_Confidential
06-23-2012, 09:10 AM
And with that money the Wiz would have to fill two extra roster spots somehow. There is a salary floor now and these two guys will be starters most likely. I just hope this team learns how to offensive rebound long jump shots, because Wall, Ariza, and Crawford will be bricking a lot of outside jumpers.

We All know the Wiz need shooters. This trade has bought them a little time in terms of having competent bigs. Okafor and Nene are solid starters when healthy and they still have Booker and Seraphin
who are young but really active down low. I can really see them ending up with Harrison Barnes and playing he and Ariza as wings and not necessarily as SG and SF. Barnes has a refined mid range game and is just an overall good jump shooter. Beal is also an option but I think what he would bring to the them would be a little redundant with Crawford on the roster.