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Really?
06-19-2012, 11:47 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8070329/nba-mock-draft-version-8

Interesting thing is that Sullinger falls to #20


It's crunch time. With the NBA draft now less than 10 days away, the finishing touches of the draft process are playing out with individual workouts, team interviews and doctors combing over physicals combined with heated arguments in war rooms across the NBA.

While teams are getting closer to finalizing their draft boards, there's still time for things to change. Here's our best stab, after talking to numerous NBA team sources, about how the draft might play out on June 28.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


New Orleans

Anthony Davis

Position: PF
Height: 6-foot-11
Weight: 222 pounds
Age: 19
School: Kentucky
Analysis: Davis is the clear No. 1 pick. The Hornets are turning down all trade offers for Davis and trying to figure out the best way to build around him. Look for them to seriously consider dealing the No. 10 pick if they can get a young veteran to play alongside Davis in return. This team has no intention of being bad for the next five seasons now that Davis is in place.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Charlotte

Thomas Robinson

Position: PF
Height: 6-foot-9
Weight: 244 pounds
Age: 21
School: Kansas
Analysis: The Bobcats continue to talk with teams about trading the No. 2 pick. But if they keep it, most of the signals coming out of the organization point to Robinson being the man. He is a super athletic, physical 4 who should be an instant upgrade over Tyrus Thomas and D.J. White.

I'm hearing Harrison Barnes may be in second place on their wish list right now. Apparently, MJ is a fan. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Bradley Beal are in the mix, too, though I'm told MKG didn't blow anyone away in his workout for the Bobcats on Monday and also hurt his back a little.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Washington

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

Position: SF
Height: 6-foot-8
Weight: 233 pounds
Age: 18
School: Kentucky
Analysis: The Wizards are happy at No. 3 and I continue to hear it will come down to Kidd-Gilchrist or Bradley Beal. Harrison Barnes, I'm told, is also now in the picture. Andre Drummond is too, but he's much further down the list. So who gets the nod?

The Wizards really need shooting, which should give Beal or Barnes a leg up. But I continue to hear that Kidd-Gilchrist remains the favorite. It's very close.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Cleveland

Bradley Beal

Position: SG
Height: 6-foot-5
Weight: 202 pounds
Age: 18
School: Florida
Analysis: The Cavs had Beal and Barnes in for a head-to-head workout on Saturday. While both played well, the word out of Cleveland is that Beal was a little better. That could seal the deal for Beal at No. 4 if he falls this far.

But remember that workouts are just one small part of a much bigger process. The Cavs have been very interested in Barnes for the past year and could decide they prefer his size.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Sacramento

Harrison Barnes

Position: SF
Height: 6-foot-8
Weight: 228 pounds
Age: 20
School: North Carolina
Analysis: Sacramento is another team that is seriously considering moving its pick if it can. GM Geoff Petrie is on the hot seat and the Kings are once again looking for a player who can come in and contribute immediately. If they can entice a team to give up a young veteran for the No. 5 pick, I think they do it. If they keep the pick, it's looking like they'll play it safe and grab Barnes. Drummond is in the mix too, but he's a much riskier proposition.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Portland (via Nets)

Andre Drummond

Position: C
Height: 7-foot-0
Weight: 279 pounds
Age: 18
School: UConn
Analysis: Blazers GM Neil Olshey is a risk-taker. He also knows he has some time to rebuild this team. So, unlike Petrie, Olshey has the capital right now to take a risk or two in the draft.

It may come down to a three-way choice (assuming the top five are off the board) between Drummond, Damian Lillard and Dion Waiters. I hear the Blazers like all three, but Drummond clearly has the biggest upside of the group. He also comes with the biggest question marks.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Golden State

Dion Waiters

Position: SG
Height: 6-foot-4
Weight: 221 pounds
Age: 20
School: Syracuse
Analysis: We've tried a number of different players in this spot and none of them have stuck. Perry Jones turned the Warriors off. Terrence Jones didn't wow in workouts. And news of Jared Sullinger's back issues have GMs in the lottery running scared.

Could the Warriors turn to Waiters? He would bring a lot of what Monta Ellis brought to the table at a much cheaper price. If the team believes Klay Thompson can slide over to the 3, or if they just want to fill out a three-guard rotation, Waiters could be the guy.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Toronto

Damian Lillard

Position: PG
Height: 6-foot-3
Weight: 189 pounds
Age: 21
School: Weber State
Analysis: The Raptors were high on Waiters early, but his stock has risen so rapidly that he could very well be off the board when they pick. If that's the case, Lillard may be the next best thing to Waiters as a dynamic backcourt scorer, which the team has lacked.

The Raptors are also open to trading their pick for a veteran wing, who would add some stability to their roster. If they keep the pick, Jeremy Lamb and Austin Rivers are also in the mix here.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Detroit

John Henson

Position: PF
Height: 6-foot-10
Weight: 216 pounds
Age: 21
School: North Carolina
Analysis: Greg Monroe has been a revelation in the middle for the Pistons, but they really need to pair him alongside an athletic shot-blocker. Although Henson is painfully thin, he rebounds, blocks shots and defends multiple positions.

It wouldn't be a perfect solution in Detroit, but the Pistons don't have a lot of other options here unless they want to reach a bit for Meyers Leonard, who might be worth it after his stellar showing at the draft combine.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


New Orleans
(via Wolves)

Austin Rivers

Position: SG
Height: 6-foot-5
Weight: 203 pounds
Age: 19
School: Duke
Analysis: We've had Jared Sullinger here the past few weeks. But just as he was working out in New Orleans, NBA team doctors were reviewing the physicals from the NBA draft combine. As we reported on Monday, Sullinger's physical had a number of team docs skittish.

If Sullinger isn't the guy, there is no obvious direction for the Hornets to go next. You could make the case for a dozen players. So why Rivers? He checks off a lot of boxes that the Hornets are looking for and gives them some insurance should Eric Gordon get too expensive as a restricted free agent this summer.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Portland


Jeremy Lamb

Position: SG
Height: 6-foot-5
Weight: 179 pounds
Age: 20
School: UConn
Analysis: If the Blazers get Drummond at No. 6, they can turn their attention to their needs in the backcourt. While a point guard might be ideal, with Lillard off the board, I think they go after a 2-guard. Lamb has great length for his position, is a smooth athlete and would give them some scoring in the backcourt.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Milwaukee

Meyers Leonard

Position: C
Height: 7-foot-1
Weight: 250 pounds
Age: 20
School: Illinois
Analysis: The Bucks gambled a few years ago on Brandon Jennings and it paid off big time. At this point in the draft, Leonard is risky but could have huge upside. The Bucks really need a center after trading Andrew Bogut to the Warriors at the trade deadline. Leonard is a work in progress, but has the size and athletic ability to be a dominant big man down the road.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Phoenix

Terrence Ross

Position: SG
Height: 6-foot-7
Weight: 197 pounds
Age: 21
School: Washington
Analysis: We've had both Dion Waiters and Austin Rivers associated with this pick in the past. However, if both players are off the board, Terrence Ross could be the guy.

He's big, he's super athletic and he can really shoot the basketball. The Suns desperately need help in their backcourt, and Ross could be a very solid addition.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Houston

Tyler Zeller

Position: C
Height: 7-foot
Weight: 247 pounds
Age: 22
School: North Carolina
Analysis: The Rockets' biggest need is in the middle, and Zeller should be a solid option. Scouts don't think Zeller is going to be an All-Star someday, but he's big, he runs the floor very well and he has a great touch around the basket. Meyers Leonard has passed him on our Big Board, but Zeller should ultimately land somewhere between Picks 8 and 14.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Philadelphia

Terrence Jones

Position: PF
Height: 6-foot-10
Weight: 252 pounds
Age: 20
School: Kentucky
Analysis: The Sixers might have a tough choice here between Jones, Jared Sullinger and Arnett Moultrie. They need size, but also shooting. Jones may be the compromise. He measured out very well for a power forward at the combine, has an NBA body and proved to be a solid rebounder and shot-blocker in college. He has tremendous upside if he puts his heart into it.

Sullinger, meanwhile, would give the Sixers the starting-caliber replacement for Elton Brand if he can stay healthy, while Moultrie is a long, bouncy, athletic big man who could stretch the floor.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Houston (via Knicks)

Arnett Moultrie

Position: PF
Height: 6-foot-11
Weight: 223 pounds
Age: 21
School: Mississippi State
Analysis: Moultrie can stretch the floor and really rebound. With the Rockets in desperate need of size, pairing Moultrie with Zeller could give them a good mix of bigs.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Dallas

Kendall Marshall

Position: PG
Height: 6-foot-4
Weight: 198 pounds
Age: 20
School: North Carolina
Analysis: With Jason Kidd 39 years old and a free agent, and Rodrigue Beaubois more of a combo guard, Marshall would offer much of what Kidd brings to the table -- incredible court vision and size -- right away. Marshall is not a great athlete or a great shooter, but he could keep Dirk & Co. happy.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Wolves (via Jazz)

Fab Melo

Position: C
Height: 7-foot
Weight: 255 pounds
Age: 22
School: Syracuse
Analysis: The team is praying that one of the wings, such as Terrence Ross or Austin Rivers, slides to them here. But if they don't, the Wolves may choose to go big with Melo. Nikola Pekovic was a revelation this year, but after that the cupboard is pretty bare. Darko Milicic has one more year on his deal, but he's not a long-term answer in Minnesota.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Orlando

Perry Jones III

Position: PF
Height: 6-foot-11
Weight: 234 pounds
Age: 20
School: Baylor
Analysis: This is a long way for Jones to slip in the draft. Many believe he's a top-five talent, but no one knows what position he'll play in the pros; his situation reminds me a lot of the one Josh Smith was in a few years ago. Jones may find a home in the lottery, but if he doesn't he could slide this far. Given Jones' raw talent, he's definitely worth the risk at this point.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Denver

Jared Sullinger

Position: PF
Height: 6-foot-9
Weight: 268 pounds
Age: 20
School: Ohio State
Analysis: A number of GMs are legitimately concerned with what their doctors found concerning Sullinger's back. They claim it's much more serious than what Sullinger's camp is saying. We will continue to try to get a handle on this situation in the next few days.

Still, there will be a certain spot in the draft where Sullinger's reward outweighs the risk. I'm not totally sure this is it, but the Nuggets need a 4 who can bang down low, so this might be a win-win for both Sullinger and Denver.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Boston

Andrew Nicholson

Position: PF
Height: 6-foot-10
Weight: 234 pounds
Age: 22
School: St. Bonaventure
Analysis: Nicholson is another draft sleeper who may really rise with workouts. He's a big stretch 4 who has drawn some comparisons to David West. He would be another welcome addition to the Celtics' summer makeover.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Boston (via Clippers)

Moe Harkless

Position: SF
Height: 6-foot-9
Weight: 207 pounds
Age: 19
School: St. John's
Analysis: The Celtics get a pretty safe pick with Nicholson at No. 21 and then roll the dice a bit with Harkless at No. 22. He's long and athletic and he can put the ball on the floor and get to the basket. If the team is going to start rebuilding, they'll need to nail a few of these late picks like they did with Rajon Rondo and Avery Bradley.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Atlanta

Royce White

Position: SF
Height: 6-foot-8
Weight: 261 pounds
Age: 21
School: Iowa State
Analysis: As long as coach Larry Drew can buy into what White is and how to play him, he could be a steal at this point in the draft. The Hawks don't really have a primary ball handler anyway, which may make White a great choice if he's allowed to play his game.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Cavs (via Lakers)

Quincy Miller

Position: SF
Height: 6-foot-10
Weight: 219 pounds
Age: 19
School: Baylor
Analysis: If the Cavs add Beal, they could try to swing for the fences with Miller. There are a lot of concerns about his knee and what position he'll play in the pros. But his upside is so high that it might be worth taking a gamble this low in the draft. There's very little risk and a lot of potential reward here.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Memphis

Tony Wroten Jr.

Position: PG
Height: 6-foot-6
Weight: 203 pounds
Age: 18
School: Washington
Analysis: The Grizzlies don't have a ton of talent behind Mike Conley, and Wroten is definitely worth the risk at this point in the draft. He is the most spectacular passer in the draft and has great size and athleticism. He just needs to fix that broken shot of his.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Indiana


Marquis Teague

Position: PG
Height: 6-foot-2
Weight: 180 pounds
Age: 19
School: Kentucky
Analysis: Teague would've been a top-10 pick in 2013 had he decided to stay in school. Instead he followed the rest of Kentucky's stars into the draft. He could go as high as the mid-first round and I doubt he slips past the Pacers here. Adding Teague would allow Indiana to use Darren Collison as trade bait this summer.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Miami

Draymond Green

Position: SF
Height: 6-foot-8
Weight: 236 pounds
Age: 22
School: Michigan State
Analysis: The Heat need players with experience who excel in bringing out the best in their teammates. Green can be a point-forward type who does a little of everything. Think of him as a better-passing Udonis Haslem.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Oklahoma City

Evan Fournier

Position: SG
Height: 6-foot-7
Weight: 206 pounds
Age: 19
School: France
Analysis: Fournier is the type of player that the Thunder can easily stash for a year or two in Europe. Or, given the high level he has played at in France, he might be able to come in and get minutes for them right away -- especially if the Thunder decide they can't afford to re-sign James Harden this summer.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Chicago

John Jenkins

Position: SG
Height: 6-foot-4
Weight: 212 pounds
Age: 21
School: Vanderbilt
Analysis: The Bulls need a shooter, and Jenkins has one of the best strokes in the draft. His super-quick release and ability to finish at the basket make him an interesting prospect here.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS


Golden State
(via Spurs)

Jeff Taylor

Position: SF
Height: 6-foot-7
Weight: 212 pounds
Age: 23
School: Vanderbilt
Analysis: The Warriors really need some help at the 3 and at this point Taylor is a safe bet. He's a terrific defender who can guard multiple positions, and he has become an adequate shooter off the catch.

vnzla81
06-19-2012, 11:55 AM
Yep I wouldn't mind Teague, he can be a pretty good backup.

Really?
06-19-2012, 01:09 PM
Yep I wouldn't mind Teague, he can be a pretty good backup.

Yeah I think there is a good chance Teague could land here, but yeah with the draft you never know, has he had a workout lined up with the team yet, If I can remember correctly a lot of the guys that we drafted were some of the later picks that we ended up bringing in.

RLeWorm
06-19-2012, 01:16 PM
Yep I wouldn't mind Teague, he can be a pretty good backup.

isn't Teague also a hometown guy? That would be great if we could get him. but i hope we really do trade up.

Justin Tyme
06-19-2012, 01:32 PM
Not interested in drafting a b/u PG. We have 2 of them now!!

Either trade up, trade down, or trade out.

Really?
06-19-2012, 01:55 PM
Not interested in drafting a b/u PG. We have 2 of them now!!

Either move up, move down, or trade out.

We do not have a backup PG with Teague's potential, and what is the big thing about trading up, how far and for who, who can we draft that will really come in and be a difference maker. Not just that, when thinking about overall value, we trade up, pay someone more, and they may give us close to the quality that we get with the 26th pick.

No matter where you are picking the draft is a gamble and you have to hope that whichever guy you take turns out to be what you expected or more. While there are some guys I would be willing to trade up to I am assuming the cost would be too much.

Only guys I would be interested in legitimately trading up to draft would be Lillard if he slips to 10, Ross, Moultre, or Rivers if they slip to 16 and PJIII if he slips to 18.

I would include Drummond if he could play the PF, I think he might be able to defend that position, but his offensive game is definitely down low.

But if we can stay at 26 and have a shot at Teague, Q.Miller, Wroten, Fournier and maybe Royce White, I think there is no real reason to trade up, the potential gain is not that much.

Trader Joe
06-19-2012, 01:59 PM
Thomas Robinson at number 2 overall? Wow, regardless of whether he pans out, that kid is an absolute success story, no one would have guessed that when he first got to Kansas.

Justin Tyme
06-19-2012, 03:57 PM
We do not have a backup PG with Teague's potential, and what is the big thing about trading up, how far and for who, who can we draft that will really come in and be a difference maker. Not just that, when thinking about overall value, we trade up, pay someone more, and they may give us close to the quality that we get with the 26th pick.

No matter where you are picking the draft is a gamble and you have to hope that whichever guy you take turns out to be what you expected or more. While there are some guys I would be willing to trade up to I am assuming the cost would be too much.

Only guys I would be interested in legitimately trading up to draft would be Lillard if he slips to 10, Ross, Moultre, or Rivers if they slip to 16 and PJIII if he slips to 18.

I would include Drummond if he could play the PF, I think he might be able to defend that position, but his offensive game is definitely down low.

But if we can stay at 26 and have a shot at Teague, Q.Miller, Wroten, Fournier and maybe Royce White, I think there is no real reason to trade up, the potential gain is not that much.



I watched Teague play this past NCAA season more than 90-95% of the posters on this board, b/c of my KY connection. The Pacers DON'T need a b/u PG with potenial. They need a starting PG that can make this team better! Go back and re-read T-Bird's review on Teague. AGAIN, the Pacers don't need a b/u PG. If you are enamoured with a b/u PG with potential that's fine, but I have higher loftier wants. If Bird thinks a PG is what he needs to draft, then trade up for a 1st round PG with POTENTIAL such as Lillard.

The chances of the #26 pick producing much other than a bench player is low. Trade up and increase your odds of getting a player that can become part of the core for the future. The 5 players you mentioned possibly getting at #26 is a stretch with White, Q. Miller, and Fournier. Have you compared Ford's #8 mock with Draftexpress' mock from yesterday? Look at both's #26-30 picks. There is not much to jump up and get excited about.

After looking at what's available, Bird would best trade back into the 31-37 range. I'd love to trade the #26 to the Cavs for their #33 & 34 picks. Or trade GS for their #30 & 35 picks even if we had to throw in our 013 2nd pick/Stanko. There should be enough talent in the early 2nd to come up with 2 players with the talent of a #26 pick. Not to mention 2nd rd players contracts aren't guaranteed.

Then there is always the scenario, FO trades the pick for a quality player for immediate
help next year and the future.

Psyren
06-19-2012, 04:02 PM
Id love to stay at 26 and take Draymond Green. Im telling you, that kid is going to be special. By far my favorite player in this draft.

Ace E.Anderson
06-19-2012, 04:07 PM
Id love to stay at 26 and take Draymond Green. Im telling you, that kid is going to be special. By far my favorite player in this draft.

I'm curious as to what it is you see in Draymond Green that you think is going to make him special? Or anyone for that matter. This isn't meant to downgrade your idea, I'm just curious because I know a lot of people on this board seem to think he's going to be pretty good.

flox
06-19-2012, 04:15 PM
I really want Nicholson to fall to us. He's a great player who could replace west if west takes him under his wing.

Hicks
06-19-2012, 04:36 PM
Yep I wouldn't mind Teague, he can be a pretty good backup.

Yeah, if Teague is on the board, I go ahead and make the trade I like best for DC that's currently on the table and pick Teague to replace him.

xIndyFan
06-19-2012, 04:42 PM
Id love to stay at 26 and take Draymond Green. Im telling you, that kid is going to be special. By far my favorite player in this draft.


I'm curious as to what it is you see in Draymond Green that you think is going to make him special? Or anyone for that matter. This isn't meant to downgrade your idea, I'm just curious because I know a lot of people on this board seem to think he's going to be pretty good.

Green is 6-5.75, unless his is channeling his inner Charles Barkley, he's an undersized SF trying to play a PF. He's almost 2 inches shorter than Danny.

Really?
06-19-2012, 04:45 PM
I watched Teague play this past NCAA season more than 90-95% of the posters on this board, b/c of my KY connection. The Pacers DON'T need a b/u PG with potenial. They need a starting PG that can make this team better! Go back and re-read T-Bird's review on Teague. AGAIN, the Pacers don't need a b/u PG. If you are enamoured with a b/u PG with potential that's fine, but I have higher loftier wants. If Bird thinks a PG is what he needs to draft, then trade up for a 1st round PG with POTENTIAL such as Lillard.

The chances of the #26 pick producing much other than a bench player is low. Trade up and increase your odds of getting a player that can become part of the core for the future. The 5 players you mentioned possibly getting at #26 is a stretch with White, Q. Miller, and Fournier. Have you compared Ford's #8 mock with Draftexpress' mock from yesterday? Look at both's #26-30 picks. There is not much to jump up and get excited about.

After looking at what's available, Bird would best trade back into the 31-37 range. I'd love to trade the #26 to the Cavs for their #33 & 34 picks. Or trade GS for their #30 & 35 picks even if we had to throw in our 013 2nd pick/Stanko. There should be enough talent in the early 2nd to come up with 2 players with the talent of a #26 pick. Not to mention 2nd rd players contracts aren't guaranteed.

Then there is always the scenario, FO trades the pick for a quality player for immediate
help next year and the future.

Honestly, I do more research than just looking at what Chad Ford, DraftExpress or TBird say, and I hope you do too if you are so forsure about your point. Mocks are there for a reason, it is to give a generalized idea of what you could expect and assumptions that are made from "inside information" and hear-say, this is why the title is Just for conversation. Everyone has their own opinion and all end up being wrong some of the time and right other times.

As far as the PG position, the only guy that will be starting PG for us next year will most likely be Hill or Collison, and really anyone that we take in the draft at any position Anthony Davis is going to start out on this team as a back up and the only position that really has a chance of cracking the starting like up the year after will be at the PF position with the exit of West, this includes the list of players that I would not mind trading up for as well. So again whoever we draft will only be contributing off of the bench unless they really mature fast.

For this reason I have no problem taking a backup pg with potential to turn into a very good player because he will have atleast a year or two to get better.

I PERSONALLY think one of these players will fall to us, which, I am not sure but as long as one falls then I am fine with that.

Also most trading is going to happen on the day of the draft, so when picks come up if your guy is there fine you stay and grab him, or if you see someone who has slipped that you like or you really want him then you trade up to get that individual. I think that on draft day anything is possible for the Pacers and I would not be surprised to see any situation, but if we did happen to stay at 26 I would be more than happy because there is decent enough talent there that we could find a quality player.

Just for kicks here are some of the guys that have been drafted 25,26,27 in previous years.

Aaron Brooks, Aaron Afflo, Tiago Slitter, Nicolas Batum, George Hill, Taj Gibson, Jordan Crawford, Marshon Brooks.

There is talent to be had in the range, you just have to hope that you are lucky, and guys slip, like Marshon Brooks did last year.

Really?
06-19-2012, 04:45 PM
Yeah, if Teague is on the board, I go ahead and make the trade I like best for DC that's currently on the table and pick Jeff to replace him.

Marquis

OakMoses
06-19-2012, 04:47 PM
Just say no to Teague. His brother was a much better college player and is still (after 3 seasons) not a starting caliber PG. If we're set on a PG at 26, let's get Machado. I think Tyshon Taylor will be a better pro than Teague, also.

OlBlu
06-19-2012, 04:49 PM
Has anyone here considered Doc Rivers' son? He is a 6'5" shooting guard. I would rather have him than Eric Gordon.... He should go around 15 to 20, we could trade up to get him.... Then Granger becomes available to deal for a PG.....

CableKC
06-19-2012, 04:50 PM
Yeah, if Teague is on the board, I go ahead and make the trade I like best for DC that's currently on the table and pick Jeff to replace him.
You mean Marquis ( not Jeff ) Teague ;)

CableKC
06-19-2012, 04:55 PM
Has anyone here considered Doc Rivers' son? He is a 6'5" shooting guard. I would rather have him than Eric Gordon.... He should go around 15 to 20, we could trade up to get him.... Then Granger becomes available to deal for a PG.....
Going off of Peck's "Odd Thoughts" on PG...I agree with what he's suggesting about him sticking to the SG spot.....I'd rather keep PG as the Starting SG rather than move him to the Starting SF.

If that is the case, I'd rather not draft a SG with the future intention to trade Granger and move PG over to the Starting SF spot. I'd rather draft a SF and then do the same.....move Granger and eventually shift the drafted SF to the Starting lineup.

CableKC
06-19-2012, 05:05 PM
Honestly, I do more research than just looking at what Chad Ford, DraftExpress or TBird say, and I hope you do too if you are so forsure about your point. Mocks are there for a reason, it is to give a generalized idea of what you could expect and assumptions that are made from "inside information" and hear-say, this is why the title is Just for conversation. Everyone has their own opinion and all end up being wrong some of the time and right other times.

As far as the PG position, the only guy that will be starting PG for us next year will most likely be Hill or Collison, and really anyone that we take in the draft at any position Anthony Davis is going to start out on this team as a back up and the only position that really has a chance of cracking the starting like up the year after will be at the PF position with the exit of West, this includes the list of players that I would not mind trading up for as well. So again whoever we draft will only be contributing off of the bench unless they really mature fast.

For this reason I have no problem taking a backup pg with potential to turn into a very good player because he will have atleast a year or two to get better.

I PERSONALLY think one of these players will fall to us, which, I am not sure but as long as one falls then I am fine with that.

Also most trading is going to happen on the day of the draft, so when picks come up if your guy is there fine you stay and grab him, or if you see someone who has slipped that you like or you really want him then you trade up to get that individual. I think that on draft day anything is possible for the Pacers and I would not be surprised to see any situation, but if we did happen to stay at 26 I would be more than happy because there is decent enough talent there that we could find a quality player.

Just for kicks here are some of the guys that have been drafted 25,26,27 in previous years.

Aaron Brooks, Aaron Afflo, Tiago Slitter, Nicolas Batum, George Hill, Taj Gibson, Jordan Crawford, Marshon Brooks.

There is talent to be had in the range, you just have to hope that you are lucky, and guys slip, like Marshon Brooks did last year.
Even as a backup....I am sure that Bird/KP will draft the BPA.....the good news is that with the likely Players that are available.....that BPA will likely be a PG, SG, SF or PF.....all positions of potential need. My hope is that the Player that is on the Board as the BPA turns out to be a PF, SF, PG or a SG ( in the Order ). This isn't as much of a "draft based off of need" as opposed to the "BPA" approach to the draft......it just so happens that at this point in the 1st round....the BPA will likely fit a need as well....which will also dictate where we head in the Offseason when it comes to FA.

If we end up drafting Marquis ( a Point Guard ), then will there be a need to try to sign Nash or Dragic since our likely PG needs will be filled with GH and Teague while making DC expendable. If we draft a PF....then the same could be said about Hansbrough being expendable and continue to make a run at Nash or Dragic.

Really?
06-19-2012, 05:09 PM
For people that want to draft Tyshawn or Machado and want to discount Teague because of how he played as a FRESHMAN, lets look at other guys stats as a freshman

40 %FG 27.8 %3pt 69.4 %FT 3.4 Reb 4.8 Ast 1.3 Stl 2.3 PF 3.4 TO
50 %FG 36.4 %3pt 72.4 %FT 2.2 Reb 3.0 Ast 1.1 Stl 2.3 PF 2.4 TO
41 %FG 32.5 %3pt 71.4 %FT 2.5 Reb 4.8 Ast 0.9 Stl 2.3 PF 2.7 TO

All I will say even though these are just stats looking at a players freshman year is not all that goes into projecting how they will do when they are 3 and 4 years into their college career.

Interesting though, just looking at the stats it is hard to tell which player is which.

pacer4ever
06-19-2012, 05:11 PM
Honestly, I do more research than just looking at what Chad Ford, DraftExpress or TBird say, and I hope you do too if you are so forsure about your point. Mocks are there for a reason, it is to give a generalized idea of what you could expect and assumptions that are made from "inside information" and hear-say, this is why the title is Just for conversation. Everyone has their own opinion and all end up being wrong some of the time and right other times.

As far as the PG position, the only guy that will be starting PG for us next year will most likely be Hill or Collison, and really anyone that we take in the draft at any position Anthony Davis is going to start out on this team as a back up and the only position that really has a chance of cracking the starting like up the year after will be at the PF position with the exit of West, this includes the list of players that I would not mind trading up for as well. So again whoever we draft will only be contributing off of the bench unless they really mature fast.

For this reason I have no problem taking a backup pg with potential to turn into a very good player because he will have atleast a year or two to get better.

I PERSONALLY think one of these players will fall to us, which, I am not sure but as long as one falls then I am fine with that.

Also most trading is going to happen on the day of the draft, so when picks come up if your guy is there fine you stay and grab him, or if you see someone who has slipped that you like or you really want him then you trade up to get that individual. I think that on draft day anything is possible for the Pacers and I would not be surprised to see any situation, but if we did happen to stay at 26 I would be more than happy because there is decent enough talent there that we could find a quality player.

Just for kicks here are some of the guys that have been drafted 25,26,27 in previous years.

Aaron Brooks, Aaron Afflo, Tiago Slitter, Nicolas Batum, George Hill, Taj Gibson, Jordan Crawford, Marshon Brooks.

There is talent to be had in the range, you just have to hope that you are lucky, and guys slip, like Marshon Brooks did last year.


I agree in a sense with your logic. But DC2 is almost ready to get paid I doubt Bird wants to shell out money for him and Hill. If DC can really net #10 or #11 i trade him in a heart beat for the same reason the Spurs traded Hill it makes sense on 2 fronts money and basketball wise.

Teague has starters potential but like his brother he needs to be brought along really slow. I wouldn't draft him unless I get a cut feel for his work ethic and I dont know he just comes off as not a hard worker (I dont know wish I could interview him and get the feel)




I know Lillard is a hard worker (would instantly challenge Roy for best work ethic on the team)

I know Machado became a hard worker after last summer (he looked different body wise and he played different and his jumpshot was fixed. I just question why it took so long for him to do those things)

Really?
06-19-2012, 05:13 PM
Even as a backup....I am sure that Bird/KP will draft the BPA.....the good news is that with the likely Players that are available.....that BPA will likely be a PG, SG, SF or PF.....all positions of potential need. My hope is that the Player that is on the Board as the BPA turns out to be a PF, SF, PG or a SG ( in the Order ). This isn't as much of a "draft based off of need" as opposed to the "BPA" approach to the draft......it just so happens that at this point in the 1st round....the BPA will likely fit a need as well....which will also dictate where we head in the Offseason when it comes to FA.

If we end up drafting Marquis ( a Point Guard ), then will there be a need to try to sign Nash or Dragic since our likely PG needs will be filled with GH and Teague while making DC expendable. If we draft a PF....then the same could be said about Hansbrough being expendable and continue to make a run at Nash or Dragic.

True, and I think our need is for quality backups either that are really good backups already or are okay but have starter potential. I really do not feel that we can do wrong in this draft if we stay at 26 as far as adding a quality piece to our team.

CableKC
06-19-2012, 05:14 PM
For people that want to draft Tyshawn or Machado and want to discount Teague because of how he played as a FRESHMAN, lets look at other guys stats as a freshman

40 %FG 27.8 %3pt 69.4 %FT 3.4 Reb 4.8 Ast 1.3 Stl 2.3 PF 3.4 TO
50 %FG 36.4 %3pt 72.4 %FT 2.2 Reb 3.0 Ast 1.1 Stl 2.3 PF 2.4 TO
41 %FG 32.5 %3pt 71.4 %FT 2.5 Reb 4.8 Ast 0.9 Stl 2.3 PF 2.7 TO

All I will say even though these are just stats looking at a players freshman year is not all that goes into projecting how they will do when they are 3 and 4 years into their college career.

Interesting though, just looking at the stats it is hard to tell which player is which.
You are right...but I can tell that the middle player has a much higher FG% than the rest....but I am guessing that there should be some context here....how many minutes the Players played...how many FGA the Players attempted, etc.

CableKC
06-19-2012, 05:16 PM
True, and I think our need is for quality backups either that are really good backups already or are okay but have starter potential. I really do not feel that we can do wrong in this draft if we stay at 26 as far as adding a quality piece to our team.
Agreed.....let's just hope that someone good drops...which I fully expect.

The question then becomes.....at the 26th spot...what position of need will likely be the BPA that can make an impact in the next season?

Really?
06-19-2012, 05:17 PM
I agree in a sense with your logic. But DC2 is almost ready to get paid I doubt Bird wants to shell out money for him and Hill. If DC can really net #10 or #11 i trade him in a heart beat for the same reason the Spurs traded Hill it makes sense on 2 fronts money and basketball wise.

Me too, but from what was talked about with DC being able to get a late lottery pick I would rather trade him for that and keep 26, even if DC could get a pick somewhere between 15-20 I would be happy, I really do not have much of a problem at this point adding 2 first round rookies, mainly because they will not be starting anyways. Plus the guys that I think will be available from 11-16 all have about the same potential to me.

pacer4ever
06-19-2012, 05:19 PM
Me too, but from what was talked about with DC being able to get a late lottery pick I would rather trade him for that and keep 26, even if DC could get a pick somewhere between 15-20 I would be happy, I really do not have much of a problem at this point adding 2 first round rookies, mainly because they will not be starting anyways. Plus the guys that I think will be available from 11-16 all have about the same potential to me.

I doubt DC alone will get a lottery pick #26 would have to go with it(and maybe more). Of course if it isn't needed I would love to keep it but realistically it would be in the package.

EDIT: but Hill was worth 3 assets one being just out of the lottery. One being a rotation player for them next year in Lorbek and another in Bertans who was a first rd talent IMO.


If DC has near that value trade him DC stock must of went up in the playoffs Ford keeps saying NOLA is looking to get him with #10 he said it again today

CableKC
06-19-2012, 05:20 PM
I agree in a sense with your logic. But DC2 is almost ready to get paid I doubt Bird wants to shell out money for him and Hill. If DC can really net #10 or #11 i trade him in a heart beat for the same reason the Spurs traded Hill it makes sense on 2 fronts money and basketball wise.
I don't think that DC has that much value to net us a #10 pick.

Really?
06-19-2012, 05:20 PM
You are right...but I can tell that the middle player has a much higher FG% than the rest....but I am guessing that there should be some context here....how many minutes the Players played...how many FGA the Players attempted, etc.

40 %FG 27.8 %3pt 69.4 %FT 3.4 Reb 4.8 Ast 1.3 Stl 2.3 PF 3.4 TO (minutes 27.0)
50 %FG 36.4 %3pt 72.4 %FT 2.2 Reb 3.0 Ast 1.1 Stl 2.3 PF 2.4 TO (minutes 26.5)
41 %FG 32.5 %3pt 71.4 %FT 2.5 Reb 4.8 Ast 0.9 Stl 2.3 PF 2.7 TO (minutes 32.6)

Psyren
06-19-2012, 05:35 PM
I'm curious as to what it is you see in Draymond Green that you think is going to make him special? Or anyone for that matter. This isn't meant to downgrade your idea, I'm just curious because I know a lot of people on this board seem to think he's going to be pretty good.

Hes a very hard worker for one.

Hes got a great range of skills. He passes very well and has excellent court vision. His jumpshot keeps improving. Hes an excellent rebounder and is a pretty good defender as well. I dont think hes "great" at any one thing, but he is good at everything.

I dont think he can play the 4 in the NBA, but I still believe hes the kind of player who will make everyone around him better.

CableKC
06-19-2012, 05:36 PM
What PG can shoot with a 50% FG%? Was he taking less then a few FGA a game?

Justin Tyme
06-19-2012, 07:49 PM
Honestly, I do more research than just looking at what Chad Ford, DraftExpress or TBird say, and I hope you do too if you are so forsure about your point. Mocks are there for a reason, it is to give a generalized idea of what you could expect and assumptions that are made from "inside information" and hear-say, this is why the title is Just for conversation. Everyone has their own opinion and all end up being wrong some of the time and right other times.

As far as the PG position, the only guy that will be starting PG for us next year will most likely be Hill or Collison, and really anyone that we take in the draft at any position Anthony Davis is going to start out on this team as a back up and the only position that really has a chance of cracking the starting like up the year after will be at the PF position with the exit of West, this includes the list of players that I would not mind trading up for as well. So again whoever we draft will only be contributing off of the bench unless they really mature fast.

For this reason I have no problem taking a backup pg with potential to turn into a very good player because he will have atleast a year or two to get better.

I PERSONALLY think one of these players will fall to us, which, I am not sure but as long as one falls then I am fine with that.

Also most trading is going to happen on the day of the draft, so when picks come up if your guy is there fine you stay and grab him, or if you see someone who has slipped that you like or you really want him then you trade up to get that individual. I think that on draft day anything is possible for the Pacers and I would not be surprised to see any situation, but if we did happen to stay at 26 I would be more than happy because there is decent enough talent there that we could find a quality player.

Just for kicks here are some of the guys that have been drafted 25,26,27 in previous years.

Aaron Brooks, Aaron Afflo, Tiago Slitter, Nicolas Batum, George Hill, Taj Gibson, Jordan Crawford, Marshon Brooks.

There is talent to be had in the range, you just have to hope that you are lucky, and guys slip, like Marshon Brooks did last year.



If the Pacers keep the #26 and nothing spectacular slides down, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bird pull a player out of his hat that hasn't had much said about him. Someone who others might even feel is a player who should go in the 2nd rd.

I'll be realistic and wishful in that: I wish Bird would get a top 7 2nd rd pick and realistic in not expecting it too happen.

xBulletproof
06-19-2012, 08:13 PM
Has anyone here considered Doc Rivers' son? He is a 6'5" shooting guard. I would rather have him than Eric Gordon.... He should go around 15 to 20, we could trade up to get him.... Then Granger becomes available to deal for a PG.....

I was feeling sick to my stomach because I was agreeing with you, until you threw in there trading Granger. Then I felt better.

There's no way I'm making a trade to accommodate a rookie picked outside of the top couple picks before he gets into camp. If he plays like a crazy man off the bench until the All Star break, then maybe I debate the idea at the trade deadline.

I do agree he seems to be getting overlooked though, and I'd love to get him.

Pacersalltheway10
06-19-2012, 09:53 PM
If the Pacers keep the #26 and nothing spectacular slides down, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bird pull a player out of his hat that hasn't had much said about him. Someone who others might even feel is a player who should go in the 2nd rd.

I'll be realistic and wishful in that: I wish Bird would get a top 7 2nd rd pick and realistic in not expecting it too happen.

That player would probably be Scott Machado.

pacer4ever
06-19-2012, 10:09 PM
I said at the time though that Bird overpaid(i am guessing most of the NBA agree although many GMs look stupid for passing on Leonard because of his big hands :laugh:. I hope we can get that much in return but realistically I doubt we get what the Spurs got.


(I love Hill as a combo guy so dont call me a basher :laugh:)


speaking of work ethic last year I had Chris Singleton rated slightly above Kawi Leonard. However I didnt know Chris Singeton had a bad work ethic.


A reporter asked him why he spent 10k on lottery tickets (was during the huge jackpot)

he said http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/chris-singleton-10-000-mega-millions-splurge-either-173013986.html


He added that he felt he made a wise investment, even though he didn't win. "[It was either] that or blow it in the club," Singleton said.


Kawi I knew had a solid work ethic proablly the best in the draft6 last year (he was the Damian Lillard)

Chris I had no clue about his work ethic. (but I guarantee you GMs interviewing the 2 could figure out which one would work harder)

xBulletproof
06-19-2012, 10:34 PM
Kahwi Leonard really doesn't matter in gauging the trade for George Hill. Odds are that's not who the Pacers were going to pick, so our choice wasn't Kahwi vs Hill, it was whoever we were going to pick vs Hill. We obviously don't know who that is though, but we were picking who San Antonio wanted, not us.

I mean that's like buying a couch from someone for $1,000. Then they go to the horse track and bet that $1,000 on a long shot horse and walking away with $100,000. Are you going to be upset you missed out on that $100,000 that you never would have even bet on? Of course not, it's a choice you wouldn't have even made if it was still your $1,000.

pacer4ever
06-19-2012, 10:45 PM
Kahwi Leonard really doesn't matter in gauging the trade for George Hill. Odds are that's not who the Pacers were going to pick, so our choice wasn't Kahwi vs Hill, it was whoever we were going to pick vs Hill. We obviously don't know who that is though, but we were picking who San Antonio wanted, not us.

I mean that's like buying a couch from someone for $1,000. Then they go to the horse track and bet that $1,000 on a long shot horse and walking away with $100,000. Are you going to be upset you missed out on that $100,000 that you never would have even bet on? Of course not, it's a choice you wouldn't have even made if it was still your $1,000.

comparing the 15th pick to a 100 to 1 odds of being as good as G3?? I think the odds were better than that of getting a player of Hill's value at #15+#42 (plus Lorebek(butchered that). I didn't agree with it on several levels(and I love Hill the player) but it is what it is.

maybe 1.5-1 or 2-1 is more realistic

thatch3232
06-20-2012, 12:10 AM
Tyshawn Taylor is the next AJ Price. Decent 2nd or 3rd string PG that you keep on your team for a few years but not for a long time, because he's not pass first.

pacer4ever
06-20-2012, 12:22 AM
Tyshawn Taylor is the next AJ Price. Decent 2nd or 3rd string PG that you keep on your team for a few years but not for a long time, because he's not pass first.

Tyshawn Taylor is on another planet athletically from Price. I dont even get how you can compare the 2 their games are nothing alike except they both play pg.

Justin Tyme
06-20-2012, 09:12 AM
Kahwi Leonard really doesn't matter in gauging the trade for George Hill. Odds are that's not who the Pacers were going to pick, so our choice wasn't Kahwi vs Hill, it was whoever we were going to pick vs Hill. We obviously don't know who that is though, but we were picking who San Antonio wanted, not us.



I agree Bird picked Leonard, b/c Buford and Pop wanted him.

Bird traded the #15 pick(Leonard) for Hill to get to the 2nd round of the playoffs and possibly more. He traded for a player he KNEW had an expiring contract for the NOW. Bird had best be able to re-sign Hill to a reasonable contract. If he doesn't, his gamble turns into a major blunder. A 1 year rental of Hill for not, or an overpaid contract the Pacers have to live with for years.

I agree one can't be guaranteed Bird would have picked Leonard at #15. My choice was Chris Singleton with Marshon Brooks next. I have no idea who Bird liked in that draft that was available, BUT Kawhi Leonard was a projected top 10 at times in the mocks. It's been stated a 1,000 times take the BPA. It stands to reason Bird would have thought that was Leonard. It's not like there was a large group of candidates who had more talent than Leonard for Bird to select from in the rest of the draft.

15 Leonard
16 Vucevic
17 Shumpert
18 Singleton
19 Harris
20 Motiejunas
21 Smith
22 Faried
23 Mirotic
24 Jackson
25 Brooks
26 Hamilton
27 Johnson
28 Cole
29 Joseph
30 Butler

So the chances are in favor Bird would have picked Leonard.

Interesting thought: of these 16 players left in the draft who at the end of their rookie contracts will be a starter? Leonard and who else?

Handoverfist
06-20-2012, 09:24 AM
Faried maybe?

Speed
06-20-2012, 09:35 AM
There's a ton from that group you just don't know about, but could make an argument as future starter caliber.

15 Leonard
16 Vucevic
17 Shumpert
18 Singleton
19 Tobias Harris
20 Motiejunas
24 Reggie Jackson
25 Marshon Brooks (already a starter)
28 Norris Cole
38 Chandler Parson (already a starter)
44 Charles Jenkins
60 Isiah Thomas

shags
06-20-2012, 09:43 AM
There's a ton from that group you just don't know about, but could make an argument as future starter caliber.

15 Leonard
16 Vucevic
17 Shumpert
18 Singleton
19 Tobias Harris
20 Motiejunas
24 Reggie Jackson
25 Marshon Brooks (already a starter)
28 Norris Cole
38 Chandler Parson (already a starter)
44 Charles Jenkins
60 Isiah Thomas

And I've read somewhere that Mirotic would be a top 10 pick if he were in this year's draft. The Bulls have two major assets in a trade, him and a future Bobcats 1st rounder (which is unprotected in 2016).

Speed
06-20-2012, 09:46 AM
And I've read somewhere that Mirotic would be a top 10 pick if he were in this year's draft. The Bulls have two major assets in a trade, him and a future Bobcats 1st rounder (which is unprotected in 2016).

The draft is such a crap shoot, Isiah Thomas with the last pick overall was way better than Fredette at 10, last year for the same team. I'm often surprised at how many of these scouts/teams are so wrong.

Justin Tyme
06-20-2012, 10:06 AM
There's a ton from that group you just don't know about, but could make an argument as future starter caliber.

15 Leonard
16 Vucevic
17 Shumpert
18 Singleton
19 Tobias Harris
20 Motiejunas
24 Reggie Jackson
25 Marshon Brooks (already a starter)
28 Norris Cole
38 Chandler Parson (already a starter)
44 Charles Jenkins
60 Isiah Thomas


Singleton and Shumpert both started at times during the season as well.

Really?
06-20-2012, 01:17 PM
Kahwi Leonard really doesn't matter in gauging the trade for George Hill. Odds are that's not who the Pacers were going to pick, so our choice wasn't Kahwi vs Hill, it was whoever we were going to pick vs Hill. We obviously don't know who that is though, but we were picking who San Antonio wanted, not us.

I mean that's like buying a couch from someone for $1,000. Then they go to the horse track and bet that $1,000 on a long shot horse and walking away with $100,000. Are you going to be upset you missed out on that $100,000 that you never would have even bet on? Of course not, it's a choice you wouldn't have even made if it was still your $1,000.

I will say no one knows what Bird would have did, before the draft I wanted Brooks, but I thought there was zero chance that Leonard would fall to us, once I saw that I was all the way Leonard, and I got extremely excited when we picked him, when we traded for George I was more indifferent, not because I did not like George but I felt that I had the feeling of getting a steal in the draft taken away from me. I think either way we went we would have been fine.


I said at the time though that Bird overpaid(i am guessing most of the NBA agree although many GMs look stupid for passing on Leonard because of his big hands :laugh:. I hope we can get that much in return but realistically I doubt we get what the Spurs got.


(I love Hill as a combo guy so dont call me a basher :laugh:)


speaking of work ethic last year I had Chris Singleton rated slightly above Kawi Leonard. However I didnt know Chris Singeton had a bad work ethic.


A reporter asked him why he spent 10k on lottery tickets (was during the huge jackpot)

he said http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/chris-singleton-10-000-mega-millions-splurge-either-173013986.html




Kawi I knew had a solid work ethic proablly the best in the draft6 last year (he was the Damian Lillard)

Chris I had no clue about his work ethic. (but I guarantee you GMs interviewing the 2 could figure out which one would work harder)

I also felt that we over paid, I really wanted to keep the 2nd even though it probably would have not amounted to much, initially I thought we got their 2nd, I felt we got taken advantage of but I do not think it was ridiculously bad but I really felt like we gave up more then what we should have but that was going to be the price to pry him away from SA.

Interesting I saw Leonard working out last year and it kid of reminded me of the Lillard workout video that I saw, both going hard, both locked in. I saw that Leonard had been working on his mid range and outside shot and said this guy will be a better shooter than people give him credit for, glad it turned out to be true, I really started liking him in his last year at SDSU.

I also had no idea about Singelton, to me from tape he always seemed like a hard worker in games so I just assumed that was how he was all of the time.


The draft is such a crap shoot, Isiah Thomas with the last pick overall was way better than Fredette at 10, last year for the same team. I'm often surprised at how many of these scouts/teams are so wrong.

Thing is everything in the draft is a gamble, Thomas always had potential and did a good job at UW but their were questions about his height and pg abilities, if he would have been 3 or 4 inches taller he would have been a lottery pick in my view.

With Freddette he also had a lot of questions but he offered something that not too many people do in the NBA(endless range), and he had production and he pushed his teams to wins, that really played a large role in him being selected so high.

But yeah every pick is a gamble, some a little more than others, also I would not give up on Jimmer yet, he just has to figure out how his game can transition to the NBA, especially since he is a volume shooter that will likely never have that freedom in the NBA.

CableKC
06-20-2012, 01:26 PM
I agree Bird picked Leonard, b/c Buford and Pop wanted him.

Bird traded the #15 pick(Leonard) for Hill to get to the 2nd round of the playoffs and possibly more. He traded for a player he KNEW had an expiring contract for the NOW. Bird had best be able to re-sign Hill to a reasonable contract. If he doesn't, his gamble turns into a major blunder. A 1 year rental of Hill for not, or an overpaid contract the Pacers have to live with for years.

I agree one can't be guaranteed Bird would have picked Leonard at #15. My choice was Chris Singleton with Marshon Brooks next. I have no idea who Bird liked in that draft that was available, BUT Kawhi Leonard was a projected top 10 at times in the mocks. It's been stated a 1,000 times take the BPA. It stands to reason Bird would have thought that was Leonard. It's not like there was a large group of candidates who had more talent than Leonard for Bird to select from in the rest of the draft.

15 Leonard
16 Vucevic
17 Shumpert
18 Singleton
19 Harris
20 Motiejunas
21 Smith
22 Faried
23 Mirotic
24 Jackson
25 Brooks
26 Hamilton
27 Johnson
28 Cole
29 Joseph
30 Butler

So the chances are in favor Bird would have picked Leonard.

Interesting thought: of these 16 players left in the draft who at the end of their rookie contracts will be a starter? Leonard and who else?
After all that we've seen of Bird and his FO decisions, do you really think that he'd trade Leonard to get GH for a 1 year rental just to make it to the 2nd round of the Playoffs?

I don't doubt that Leonard is a solid Starter.....but I don't think that Bird and the Simons weren't prepared to match anything that GH would likely receive from any other Team and would be prepared to pay market value for him. Although I think that some Team will make him an offer, I do not think that any Team will significantly overpay him. Keep in mind, he has to compete with the likes of JCraw and LouWill when it comes to ComboGuards on the Free Agent Market.

Justin Tyme
06-20-2012, 02:29 PM
After all that we've seen of Bird and his FO decisions, do you really think that he'd trade Leonard to get GH for a 1 year rental just to make it to the 2nd round of the Playoffs?

I don't doubt that Leonard is a solid Starter.....but I don't think that Bird and the Simons weren't prepared to match anything that GH would likely receive from any other Team and would be prepared to pay market value for him. Although I think that some Team will make him an offer, I do not think that any Team will significantly overpay him. Keep in mind, he has to compete with the likes of JCraw and LouWill when it comes to ComboGuards on the Free Agent Market.


When the Pacers traded for Bird's boy Peja, did you think Bird and Simon expected to lose him as a 1/2 season rental? Just remember Bird was "quite aware" that Peja had a player option the following year, and it didn't stop him from getting Peja. Look at what Peja's salary was when the Pacers traded for him, and then look at the contract NOLA gave him. Sorry, I'm not buying the Pacers won't overpay to keep Hill, b/c of what other players are available. Hopefully for the Pacers, Hill will re-sign for 5 mil or less. Anything over 6 mil is overpaying to keep Hill. Hill is a combo guard and as a combo guard he doesn't have attributes of a PG that will take the Pacers to the NBA finals.

Do I want to see Hill leave? No! Not to mention, it leaves the Pacers with nothing to show for the 011 draft. Zippo, zilch, nada all for a gamble for now. If Hill does leave, then expect to see a giant mushroom cloud in the sky in the Indy SS area, b/c it will be me having exploded.