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Shooter
02-11-2004, 07:50 PM
Found the following on Yahoo sports. As if we don't already get on the referees enough. This would mean more judgement calls.

"YELLOW CARD: Around the league there has been quiet discussion, and there will be more, about penalizing players for flopping, perhaps with a technical foul or loss of possession. (Nothing would turn Shaq into a fan of the league office quicker than that.) Sources say that the NBA office is upset not only with defenders taking a dive in an effort to draw an offensive foul, but also with shooters pretending they've been maimed in an effort to get a whistle. Soccer adopted this rule several years ago, and it has been fairly successful in limiting Academy Award performances."

Reggie has been maimed a few times. :D

MSA2CF
02-11-2004, 07:55 PM
Completely stupid.

I have not heard one single complaint about this "problem."

Why change the game due to a minor inconveniency? This has been teh way basketball always has been. But hey, sometimes change is good and sometimes it's bad.

ROCislandWarrior
02-11-2004, 07:59 PM
looks like Vlade Divac is out of a job

Roaming Gnome
02-11-2004, 08:21 PM
There is already a built in mechinism for a flop that is recognized by the ref. It's called a "no-call" leaving the flopper on the ground and the offensive player rolling to the basket undefended, or open for a warm up jump shot. No action is needed in my opinion

Arcadian
02-11-2004, 09:01 PM
Rules that are supposed to be called upon a player's intent are a bad idea.
It is one reason I don't like flagant fouls because they are inconsistant and baised toward certian players.

Roaming Gnome
02-11-2004, 09:11 PM
Rules that are supposed to be called upon a player's intent are a bad idea.
It is one reason I don't like flagant fouls because they are inconsistant and baised toward certian players.

I agree with you 100% on the idea, but as far as flagrant fouls are concerned...I do believe that it is written or has been changed in recent years that flagrant fouls are charged for extream and unnecessary contact. It has always been presumed or advertised by the media that flagrants were dished out by the defenders intent (was he making a play for the ball?). I think the league in the last 2 years have made an effort to clarify that flagrants are for extream contact and not whether there was a play on the ball or not. Usually every Wed or Thursday NBA TV has the head of officials on their NBA Insiders show and they go over plays that were contriversial over the past week. On the show Ronnie Nunn usually explains that flagrant fouls are for the amount of contact and not intent of the defender.

Bball
02-11-2004, 09:16 PM
Silly rule. Bad idea. If the ref knows it is a flop then he doesn't call the foul. What little complaining is heard about this issue is when a ref takes the bait and calls a foul due to a flop. How would this rule change that? Those are times the ref thought it was a legitimate foul. And let's not forget, most times the flop is because of contact... it is just over dramatized to make sure the ref sees it.

I guess you could argue that on the few no call fouls where this new 'flop' penalty could be called you'd scare -all- players out of trying it. BUT the ones that do it and get the calls are the ones that do it well. So they will keep on doing it.

I'd look to 'fix' another part of the game if I was them.


-Bball

pollardfreek
02-11-2004, 09:19 PM
When I first saw this I thought it was about the band Yellowcard. HAHAHAHAHA :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: . I'm such a loser. :(

MSA2CF
02-11-2004, 09:22 PM
I'm such a loser. :(

Completely. ;)

ChicagoJ
02-11-2004, 10:50 PM
Rules that are supposed to be called upon a player's intent are a bad idea.
It is one reason I don't like flagant fouls because they are inconsistant and baised toward certian players.

I agree with you 100% on the idea, but as far as flagrant fouls are concerned...I do believe that it is written or has been changed in recent years that flagrant fouls are charged for extream and unnecessary contact. It has always been presumed or advertised by the media that flagrants were dished out by the defenders intent (was he making a play for the ball?). I think the league in the last 2 years have made an effort to clarify that flagrants are for extream contact and not whether there was a play on the ball or not. Usually every Wed or Thursday NBA TV has the head of officials on their NBA Insiders show and they go over plays that were contriversial over the past week. On the show Ronnie Nunn usually explains that flagrant fouls are for the amount of contact and not intent of the defender.


Its been that way for years. "Intentional foul" has always been a "college" (semi-pro) rule. Its always a pet peeve of mine when somebody at the arena starts yelling for an "intentional foul" to be called or to make the hand signal for an "intentional foul". I've been known to gently remind them that they've been reading the wrong rulebook. ;) Intent hasn't been an element of the flagrant foul rule in the NBA either ever or for at least more than fifteen years. I'm not sure its always enforced that way, but certain officials aren't very good. :rolleyes:

Arcadian
02-11-2004, 11:01 PM
I realize that there is a certian kind of contact refs are supposed to look for when the make flagerant call but the reality is it often is a judgement call. And that judgement is often based on what the ref thinks the player was trying to do.

But I think we all agree on my basic premise that rules based on the ref's interpretation of the player's intent is a bad idea.

Natston
02-12-2004, 12:23 AM
When I first saw this I thought it was about the band Yellowcard. HAHAHAHAHA :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: . I'm such a loser. :(

I was thinking soccer... :blush:

Anyway, why would you want to slow down the game down like that? rolleyes:

Shade
02-12-2004, 12:52 AM
If the refs were competent enough to know how to recognize a flop and not call it a foul, there would be no problem.

Leave it to the NBA to go after a fly with a rocket launcher. FIX THE FRIGGIN' REFS and 90% of the league's issues vanish. Yes, kids, it's JUST THAT SIMPLE.

:shakehead:

tseramid
02-12-2004, 12:57 AM
As a soccer coach, I can say that the yellow card is an appropriate response for flopping in soccer. It is unsportsmanlike conduct. It does have it's share of controversy, however. In the World Cup just a couple of years ago, the Italians became known as flop artists. It bit them hard in an elimination game when one of their best players drew a second yellow card for apparently flopping in order to draw a penalty kick. As it turns out the videotape showed that he was legitamately fouled. Most people felt like what comes around goes around because they had been flopping through the whole tournament and got away with it.

This being said, basketball is so much different of a sport. Some players have been able to get away with some flopping, but then they do not necessarily get the benefit of the call later in the game. No further punishment is needed in bball, imo.