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vnzla81
03-23-2012, 09:46 PM
So can we get Nash next year? :pray:

Go Pacers !!!!

immortality
03-23-2012, 09:49 PM
Going away from Hibbert really cost us, although Gortat started to defend him more physically. David West was pretty quiet, and we still have trouble getting our big men the basketball where they want it. George Hill and Barbosa have been ineffective lately, but Hans made some good plays.

Unclebuck
03-23-2012, 09:49 PM
The only thing that needs to be said to describe this game is Steve Nash. He was the difference

2minutes twoa
03-23-2012, 09:49 PM
I will never understand how inconsistent and straight up gullible NBA officials are! I just don't get it!

idioteque
03-23-2012, 09:50 PM
The Pacers are a supremely talented team. But we are lacking one or two things or a combination of both: a floor general and a crisp well-run offense. More needs to be done by Frank to make sure the players are facilitating the latter since we certainly lack the former. Our offense right now looks really gummed up out there. That is the reason why a team with as much talent as we have is losing to .500 teams on our home floor.

TMJ31
03-23-2012, 09:50 PM
Reposting this reply of mine from the game thread, because it's exactly my postgame feelings:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sorry, I know that often times we complain about the lack of fair calls (fans of EVERY team do)

But this was truly pathetic.

There were a MINIMUM of 5 no calls on blatant fouls. Tyler got hammered repeatedly near the rim all game. PG's final putback attempt was slashed across the arm. Not to mention Lopez wrestled David West to the ground on the same play.

Yes, Nash played amazing basketball, and they played well enough to win the game.

But if we get even a SEMI-fair call from the refs tonight, we win.

Period.

Pacerized
03-23-2012, 09:50 PM
I think Nash was showing Larry where to spend some of that cap space this summer. If you just offer more then the MLE then you have most teams beat. A chance to make a final run at a ring and get paid might be a little more intriguing then what the Heat can offer.

D-BONE
03-23-2012, 09:51 PM
Yep...Steve Nash. Best player on the court and it showed. End of story.

Nuntius
03-23-2012, 09:52 PM
The team fought its way back to a seemingly lost game after the 3rd and after Frye hit that 3 with 20 seconds remaining to put us down by 6. In the end, we even had a chance to tie it.

Yeah, some calls were ambiguous. But que sera sera. Our guys fought. In the end, that's what they will get away from this game. The fire to fight every game and the security that their coach will stand up for them.

Call me a fool but I'm not sad about this loss. A win would be better for sure but at least the guys did everyting they could for the period I was watching.

PS: I only watched the 10 last minutes of the 4th.

vnzla81
03-23-2012, 09:53 PM
I think Nash was showing Larry where to spend some of that cap space this summer. If you just offer more then the MLE then you have most teams beat. A chance to make a final run at a ring and get paid might be a little more intriguing then what the Heat can offer.

At this point you offer Nash 3/30mil and call it a day.

kmjohnson
03-23-2012, 09:53 PM
I never put things like this on one moment, but Vogel's technical really hurt us as well. I concur on PG getting hacked on that last one as well.

TMJ31
03-23-2012, 09:54 PM
The team fought its way back to a seemingly lost game after the 3rd and after Frye hit that 3 with 20 seconds remaining to put us down by 6. In the end, we even had a chance to tie it.

Yeah, some calls were ambiguous. But que sera sera. Our guys fought. In the end, that's what they will get away from this game. The fire to fight every game and the security that their coach will stand up for them.

Call me a fool but I'm not sad about this loss. A win would be better for sure but at least the guys did everyting they could for the period I was watching.

PS: I only watched the 10 last minutes of the 4th.

I too am proud of our guys for fighting.

I would also agree, we shouldn't be "sad" about this loss.

We should be pissed that when our guys EARNED the right to at the very LEAST take that game to OT, the refs just looked the other way and stole the chance to win it that we EARNED with gutsy play at the end of the game.

Sickening.

LG33
03-23-2012, 09:56 PM
For those complaining about the way the referees called the game, does anyone think a small home crowd translates to less favorable officiating?

idioteque
03-23-2012, 09:57 PM
I too am proud of our guys for fighting.

I would also agree, we shouldn't be "sad" about this loss.

We should be pissed that when our guys EARNED the right to at the very LEAST take that game to OT, the refs just looked the other way and stole the chance to win it that we EARNED with gutsy play at the end of the game.

Sickening.

We would have taken it to OT if Frank would have kept his mouth shut. That point ended up being the difference. I'm not ragging on Frank for getting the tech, at the time I think it was the right signal to send and no one can predict the final score. But if Frank would have made a different decision (he knew he was going to get tossed) the whole complexion of the last two minutes may be different.

TheDavisBrothers
03-23-2012, 09:57 PM
I never put things like this on one moment, but Vogel's technical really hurt us as well. I concur on PG getting hacked on that last one as well.

It's debatable, but I liked Frank standing up for the team and I think it got us hyped up...

SycamoreKen
03-23-2012, 09:58 PM
They will never make that call at the end of a game, doesn't matter who it is making the play. It's that way at every level of the game.

D-BONE
03-23-2012, 09:58 PM
I understand the sentiment. Officiating can be criticized here, but personally don't blame refs for losses unless it's absolutely egregious. We had opportunities in spite of calls, we just did not take advantage.

rock747
03-23-2012, 09:59 PM
anyone who blindly defends nba officitiang is a moron. they screwed us and vogel can't even talk about it because th gestapo (NBA) will come down on him. The refs can dictate who wins any games and no one can say a thing about it.

TMJ31
03-23-2012, 09:59 PM
We would have taken it to OT if Frank would have kept his mouth shut. That point ended up being the difference. I'm not ragging on Frank for getting the tech, at the time I think it was the right signal to send and no one can predict the final score. But if Frank would have made a different decision (he knew he was going to get tossed) the whole complexion of the last two minutes may be different.

Yea absolutely.

It brings up an interesting question.

Is it more "beneficial" to the teams chances of winning to AVOID the tech, *OR* to give up the point and light a fire under the teams butt?

Do we end up having a chance to win at the end without Frank getting tossed? I don't know... It's an interesting theory.

idioteque
03-23-2012, 10:00 PM
When you look at the 2-5 positions between the Pacers and the Suns, we are without a doubt better than them. The difference is the fact they have Nash and the fact the Pacers don't have the means to run an offense 1/10th as well as Nash does for the Suns.

D-BONE
03-23-2012, 10:00 PM
We would have taken it to OT if Frank would have kept his mouth shut. That point ended up being the difference. I'm not ragging on Frank for getting the tech, at the time I think it was the right signal to send and no one can predict the final score. But if Frank would have made a different decision (he knew he was going to get tossed) the whole complexion of the last two minutes may be different.

On the replay I thought it looked like they called it correctly. PG never controlled it individually and called TO. There was a player on the ball before he could gather and get it called.

TheDavisBrothers
03-23-2012, 10:00 PM
I understand the sentiment. Officiating can be criticized here, but personally don't blame refs for losses unless it's absolutely egregious. We had opportunities in spite of calls, we just did not take advantage.

And I thought some of the calls were absolutely egregious...

TMJ31
03-23-2012, 10:01 PM
They will never make that call at the end of a game, doesn't matter who it is making the play. It's that way at every level of the game.

I would disagree.

Remember the game where we beat LeBron (still with Cavs I think), where Danny "Fouled" him on a tip near the buzzer, but then they called LeBron for the SAME foul on Danny and we won.

THAT was how a game should be called. Fairly, even if it's not how the NBA wants it to end.

D-BONE
03-23-2012, 10:03 PM
And I thought some of the calls were absolutely egregious...

Fair enough, but what I mean by that is they totally blow a call on a singular, game - deciding play. I say an excellent team overcomes the type of officiating like tonight. We're just not there yet.

idioteque
03-23-2012, 10:03 PM
On the replay I thought it looked like they called it correctly. PG never controlled it individually and called TO. There was a player on the ball before he could gather and get it called.

Right, but the fact that the call was even debatable was enough to set Frank off. We all know there are make up calls in the NBA and we probably deserved one as much as you could then.

JB24
03-23-2012, 10:05 PM
I understand the sentiment. Officiating can be criticized here, but personally don't blame refs for losses unless it's absolutely egregious. We had opportunities in spite of calls, we just did not take advantage.

I'm inclined to agree. Let's talk about that terrible step-back three from George with 12 secs still to play with on the shot clock, 50 secs in the game and only a three point difference.

granger4mvp
03-23-2012, 10:07 PM
Fair enough, but what I mean by that is they totally blow a call on a singular, game - deciding play. I say an excellent team overcomes the type of officiating like tonight. We're just not there yet.

Bottom line there is a set of nba rules they need to go by them I understand refs will miss things but this make up calls superstar calls and all this other crap needs to stop

Banta
03-23-2012, 10:08 PM
I wonder just how good the Pacers could be if they could some how figure out defending a pick & roll. :(

D-BONE
03-23-2012, 10:15 PM
I wonder just how good the Pacers could be if they could some how figure out defending a pick & roll. :(

Hibbert and DC in the PnR = too easy!

CJ Jones
03-23-2012, 10:15 PM
Fun game to watch, but it was another terribly officiated game. Gortat and Lopez might have went straight up once, the rest of the time they were fouling and weren't getting called for it. Grant Hill got away with a travel and foul on George's last shot too.

As bad as the officiating was, Franks last technical wasn't smart. Maybe he thought he saw something he didn't, but that was a bad time to give them another free point, and it came back to bite us.

Playing the Suns exposes our main weaknesses... pick & roll offense and defense. I can't explain why teams so easily disrupt our pick & roll, but yet we can't stop anyone. If we can't figure it out, we might as well steal someone's game plan because ours isn't working.

Despite the L... good games by a lot of the guys. Granger was a beast tonight.

2minutes twoa
03-23-2012, 10:16 PM
I wonder just how good the Pacers could be if they could some how figure out defending a pick & roll. :(

Love Hibbert, but this team will always struggle on the PnR as long as he's on the floor. He just doesn't have the quickness to recover.

TheDavisBrothers
03-23-2012, 10:24 PM
Love Hibbert, but this team will always struggle on the PnR as long as he's on the floor. He just doesn't have the quickness to recover.

It would help if the d@mn coaches just told him not to go out so far...

2minutes twoa
03-23-2012, 10:27 PM
It would help if the d@mn coaches just told him not to go out so far...

Yeah, they need to break out some old game film and figure out how Rik Smits played the PnR! If he could do it, surely Roy can! :)

Sandman21
03-23-2012, 10:29 PM
anyone who blindly defends nba officitiang is a moron. they screwed us and vogel can't even talk about it because th gestapo (NBA) will come down on him. The refs can dictate who wins any games and no one can say a thing about it.

If I were Vogel, Id just bring the checkbook into the presser and write the fine check right then and there.

TheDon
03-23-2012, 10:30 PM
It would help if the d@mn coaches just told him not to go out so far...

this, I don't understand it. i'll let any center in the league take a contested 15 - 18 footer over a layup any day of the week over getting burned constantly on the PnR

graphic-er
03-23-2012, 10:32 PM
1. Vogel cost us with 2 techs.
2. Vogel cost us by letting DC stay on Nash in the 4th. Time after time I seen Gortat lay a superb screen on DC and then I watch DC just jog after Nash, no urgency to keep infront of the best passing PG in the game.
3. Granger was taken out of the game with like 40 seconds left and the suns made a great offensive play. Terrible. Danny is a good defender you leave him in. If he fouls out he fouls out, you need to try and get the stop!
4. Refs were slop, but what else is new in Pacer land? I'm convinced we will never get a fair game.

PGisthefuture
03-23-2012, 10:40 PM
Did anybody else think Brian Shaw did a heck of a job filling in for Vogel at the end? I liked his tactics.

gummy
03-23-2012, 10:41 PM
We would have taken it to OT if Frank would have kept his mouth shut. That point ended up being the difference. I'm not ragging on Frank for getting the tech, at the time I think it was the right signal to send and no one can predict the final score. But if Frank would have made a different decision (he knew he was going to get tossed) the whole complexion of the last two minutes may be different.

There's no way to know that. Maybe him getting tossed fired them up and without that Phoenix would have made a run to strongly close out the game. Who knows? There's no reason to say with such certainty that we could have taken it to OT if Frank had kept his mouth shut.

idioteque
03-23-2012, 10:42 PM
There's no way to know that. Maybe him getting tossed fired them up and without that Phoenix would have made a run to strongly close out the game. Who knows? There's no reason to say with such certainty that we could have taken it to OT if Frank had kept his mouth shut.

Read my post again, it concurs with everything you're saying.

gummy
03-23-2012, 10:44 PM
Read my post again, it concurs with everything you're saying.

Nah, I think your post wants to split it both ways and I want to come firmly down on one side. ;)

idioteque
03-23-2012, 10:46 PM
Nah, I think your post wants to split it both ways and I want to come firmly down on one side. ;)

I work in politics, forgive me :-p

gummy
03-23-2012, 10:47 PM
I work in politics, forgive me :-p

:laugh:

I have a degree in Poli Sci, so I had to call it.

:sigh:

Tough loss, nice to get a little laugh.

AesopRockOn
03-23-2012, 10:54 PM
I'm not sure I want to go home and watch the replay of a game after which the poster I voted for for biggest sunshiner gets multiple thanks on a tirade against the game officials. Maybe I'll just watch Archer.

TMJ31
03-23-2012, 10:57 PM
I'm not sure I want to go home and watch the replay of a game after which the poster I voted for for biggest sunshiner gets multiple thanks on a tirade against the game officials. Maybe I'll just watch Archer.

Good idea.

We ALMOST had a Reggie-like last second comeback... Only to have it ripped away on a blatant foul no-call.

At a certain point I just can't stand the petty double standards and terrible officiating anymore.

Kid Minneapolis
03-23-2012, 11:03 PM
I don't normally complain about officiating, except when it affects the outcome of the game:

Grant Hill straight up went up for a shot... decided against it in mid-air.... came back down to the ground, and then went up for his 2nd attempt ---- and no travelling called. How the F does that happen??

It resulted in a bucket they shouldn't have got, and subsequently a technical foul shot that shouldn't have occurred, and voila --- we lose by that amount.

There were a number of pretty bad officiating instances in this game. The road team had home officiating advantage in this game. Killed our momentum so many times down the stretch.

Gold
03-23-2012, 11:04 PM
It was an alright game. Steve Nash Murdered us....so did the refs.

But I'm sooo glad that PG is becoming an option down the stretch lately and he has actually been successful.

Hibbert
03-23-2012, 11:09 PM
The only thing that needs to be said to describe this game is Steve Nash. He was the difference

I sat on the floor for this game and I'm pretty sure the difference in this game were the referees, and I have never been one to make such a claim. Tonight was a very physical game the entire game and the refs let them play but is there an explanation for us being called for 30 fouls and the Suns just 20? We shot 22 FT's, Phoenix shot 37. Gortat is a heck of a player but he should of fouled out with 4:43 left in the fourth. There's a reason this was Frank's first ejection.

Also, I just got home and haven't checked the boards but I really hope that people on here aren't blaming any one of the players tonight for this loss. That would be sad and wrong since it just wasn't the case tonight.

xIndyFan
03-23-2012, 11:10 PM
I wonder just how good the Pacers could be if they could some how figure out defending a pick & roll. :(

boy, ain't this the truth. all these smart basketball guys making millions of dollars and they can't figure out how to help roy on the PnR. there's nobody else that can help? i just don't believe it can be firgured out. someone needs to do this. :laugh: :banghead:

Hibbert
03-23-2012, 11:21 PM
For those complaining about the way the referees called the game, does anyone think a small home crowd translates to less favorable officiating?

The crowd tonight had over a thousand more than we average on the year and it was very loud throughout the game. We let the refs no loud and clear on all the calls we didn't get but it didn't matter.

BlueNGold
03-23-2012, 11:29 PM
Nash shredded our defense and Gortat was a monster. That is all.

graphic-er
03-23-2012, 11:31 PM
Did anybody else think Brian Shaw did a heck of a job filling in for Vogel at the end? I liked his tactics.

why did he take granger out? Who cares if he has 5 fouls. i want my best player on the floor with under a minute.

tflo
03-23-2012, 11:53 PM
There is two things I learned tonight,

1.When Danny is hitting his shots don't wait until the last minute in the 4 quarter to get him the ball.

2. I think we made a mistake not getting Nash before the trade dead line.

joeyd
03-23-2012, 11:59 PM
It's debatable, but I liked Frank standing up for the team and I think it got us hyped up...

But ya know, that's twice in what, the last 3 or 4 games, where the score has been 7 points or less and Frank does this. It was mentioned earlier in this thread---the whole complexion of the game would have changed had Frank shown his "support" in other ways. A team within 4-7 points should not need to get hyped up. They were already ramped up. How did Frank actually think he would influence the outcome of the game.

Now, granted, Brian Shaw called a great final couple of minutes. But if you couple the free throws that the Suns got from those dad-gummed illegal defense calls and the technicals, this team shot itself in the foot. I have said that these calls would catch up with us, and tonight, the 4 points probably would have made the difference.

PGisthefuture
03-24-2012, 12:00 AM
why did he take granger out? Who cares if he has 5 fouls. i want my best player on the floor with under a minute.

Hmm I didn't even notice lol..

joeyd
03-24-2012, 12:02 AM
There's no way to know that. Maybe him getting tossed fired them up and without that Phoenix would have made a run to strongly close out the game. Who knows? There's no reason to say with such certainty that we could have taken it to OT if Frank had kept his mouth shut.

It's hard to say anything with certainty, but the more points you "give" another team, the more you have to get yourself to beat them. Frank got tossed when we were down by 4 with what, 2 minutes to go? A two possession game at that point. Couple Frank's techs with the other techs and you have a young coach and a young team making mistakes that maybe a more disciplined team does not do.

Pace Maker
03-24-2012, 12:33 AM
I'm okay with the Paul George no call, unless its terribly obvious I hate games coming down to a foul called with such little time left.

But the obvious travel from Grant Hill really pissed me off. Listen, referees are human I get that. Sometimes they make mistakes. But to give Vogel a technical for getting pissed over YOUR mistake? That's just disgusting.

tadscout
03-24-2012, 12:41 AM
There is two things I learned tonight,

1.When Danny is hitting his shots don't wait until the last minute in the 4 quarter to get him the ball.

2. I think we made a mistake not getting Nash before the trade dead line.

How is it a mistake when we had no chance of getting him, b/c the Suns didn't make him available unless he asked to be traded, out of respect.... and he wouldn't ask for a trade.

Nuntius
03-24-2012, 12:46 AM
How is it a mistake when we had no chance of getting him, b/c the Suns didn't make him available unless he asked to be traded, out of respect.... and he wouldn't ask for a trade.

This. Nash was not available for trade. Simple as that. We may get him as a FA but he is not a player to ask for a trade.

TheDavisBrothers
03-24-2012, 01:05 AM
But ya know, that's twice in what, the last 3 or 4 games, where the score has been 7 points or less and Frank does this. It was mentioned earlier in this thread---the whole complexion of the game would have changed had Frank shown his "support" in other ways. A team within 4-7 points should not need to get hyped up. They were already ramped up. How did Frank actually think he would influence the outcome of the game.

Now, granted, Brian Shaw called a great final couple of minutes. But if you couple the free throws that the Suns got from those dad-gummed illegal defense calls and the technicals, this team shot itself in the foot. I have said that these calls would catch up with us, and tonight, the 4 points probably would have made the difference.

I thought the complexion of the game changed in a positive way when he got ejected. Remember the Min game when Granger got a cheap shot from Love and it set him off. Of course you would hope that the players are already hyped up about a close game, but I believe stuff like that just adds even more fuel to the fire and really lights that fire under your @$$. I would argue that that gain outweighed the lose of the 1 point...

Sandman21
03-24-2012, 01:39 AM
I'm okay with the Paul George no call, unless its terribly obvious I hate games coming down to a foul called with such little time left.

But the obvious travel from Grant Hill really pissed me off. Listen, referees are human I get that. Sometimes they make mistakes. But to give Vogel a technical for getting pissed over YOUR mistake? That's just disgusting.

Most people wouldn't have blown as many calls as the refs did tonight. Six pairs of eyeballs missing stuff like that is inexcusable.

Hell, I'm pretty sure Knick Bavetta is a walking corpse at this point, and HE would have done a better job than these knuckleheads did.

boombaby1987
03-24-2012, 02:15 AM
You cant give up 113 points and expect to win. Period. Suns had countless wide open uncontested jumpers and those really cost us down the stretch.

I Love P
03-24-2012, 03:45 AM
I'll sum this game up real quick: The Suns have Steve Nash. The Pacers do not.

I Love P
03-24-2012, 03:48 AM
Darren Collison is NOT a point guard. He's a "point guard" who gets a few assists a night and scores a few baskets. Same way with Hill. This team does not have a true point guard, and until they do, they won't go far. Nash finds the open man no matter if it's for a three or a dunk. He finds the open man. Collison does not. Lance does not. Hill does not. AJ does not. This team needs a point guard, desperately.

Team Indy
03-24-2012, 04:58 AM
You cant give up 113 points and expect to win. Period. Suns had countless wide open uncontested jumpers and those really cost us down the stretch.

OKC gave up 140, 116 at the end of regulation.

yoadknux
03-24-2012, 05:12 AM
Forget the refs. These things happen.
What I don't understand is why on that play where we were down 3 Shaw benched Granger and decided to let George create his own 3 point shot (which resulted in an airball). Granger was 3-3 on threes at that point, if your best offensive player is hot why do you bench him when you have a chance to tie the game up?
1 possession later we were down 6 and he brought Granger back in and he scored a 3 off the inbound...

Johanvil
03-24-2012, 05:28 AM
Happy that we fought back once again but man if there is a game that showed how 'naked' we are at the point,that was it(I'm talking about the point guard exhibition Nash gave).

Pacemaker
03-24-2012, 06:12 AM
Steve Nash is a an all-star surgeon.

BlueNGold
03-24-2012, 09:47 AM
Nash certainly does put a spotlight on the complete void we have at the point guard position. With Nash instead of Collison, the Pacers would have easily won that game.

I bet 5 years from now Nash will still be the better PG.

Naptown_Seth
03-24-2012, 09:54 AM
The only thing that needs to be said to describe this game is Steve Nash. He was the difference
And it wasn't even close.

I think ALL of Gortats 2 FTA attempts were "assists" from Nash also, meaning that they still got points thanks to a Nash pass but he just didn't get the credit.

By that count I'd say he was closer to being 100% critical to 30 of their scoring possessions, out of maybe 45 total.



I'd better never, ever find out that Nash could have been had for a bench player and a 1st. That would have been a massive overvaluation of a late 1st pick.



What I don't understand is why on that play where we were down 3 Shaw benched Granger and decided to let George create his own 3 point shot (which resulted in an airball). Granger was 3-3 on threes at that point, if your best offensive player is hot why do you bench him when you have a chance to tie the game up?I understand you protect Danny's foul situation on defense although Danny had been playing a solid defensive game IMO. But then after the FTs you have 2 20s and a full and you do NOT call timeout to get your scorching hot 3pt man back in the game? Seriously, this isn't even remotely excusable.

I mean it HAS to be Hill-Paul-Danny at that point. Maybe you go small at PF and only use West or Roy, but Danny is at least playing "PF" on that offensive possession.

If they didn't have timeouts then okay...but they did.



It's funny because Vogel was right to be mad about the jump ball call (Frye instead of Nash jumping) but in the end it cost them 1 point, the Pacers still won the jump and then Vogel wasn't out there to run the final possessions.


Bird shook his head as Vogel went down the tunnel. It was hard to tell if it was because of Vogel's action or the refs call.




Also what is the deal with the lower Paul PT. Paul is still making mistakes for sure; has trouble with protecting his dribble, etc. But PAUL is the reason why they were able to start defending Gortat. It was Paul who rotated under Gortat on what would have been another easy 2 at the rim and knocked the ball loose.

Paul started disrupting or breaking up plays all over the place when he returned in the 2nd half and was a big reason why they salvaged a shot at the game. But why did it have to get to that point?

DC and Barbosa are NOT more valuable to the Pacers than Paul George. For every mistake he makes 2 critical defensive plays that break up a possession or slow it down enough to give the team a shot at defending it (like turning away a dribble penetration, no steal or block but the easy shot is prevented).



The staff and the players themselves better start figuring out where their bread is buttered because if they keep relying on the wrong plans or the wrong players it's only going to get worse.

BillS
03-24-2012, 09:57 AM
Besides Hibbert being set up somewhere near Muncie when defending the PnR, the other defensive issue that makes me want to jump over the balcony is when one of our guards tries to flash past and "steal" the ball from the ballhandler - missing and leaving a wide open red-carpeted lane to a layup.

Maybe that might shake up a rookie, but Nash? That stuff needs to be stopped. It's a symptom of trying to defend the ball instead of defending the players.

Naptown_Seth
03-24-2012, 10:07 AM
Nash shredded our defense and Gortat was a monster. That is all.
And really to take a positive out of the night it is really a privilege to see one of the best PGs of all time do what he does. First of all he has great awareness and sense of control. You can see him reading plays even before the team has gotten him the ball. DC comes off of high PnRs and picks up his dribble with nowhere to go all the time, Nash almost never gets stuck in jams like that, he always knows what his options are.

But the second item, the more important item, is his toolbox of passes available to him. I'd bet that 90% of his passes come DIRECTLY out of his dribble motion. Like instead of taking that next dribble it's a one handed bullet bounce pass to the rim. He almost never has to stop and set himself to make a pass, and it's almost always right on target.

In that regard it was a pleasure to watch this game, to see what high quality PG play can look like.

And I've seen him up close several times before with the same reaction. For all the Kobes and Lebrons (let alone the 2nd rate wanna-be Kobes and Lebrons) I wish the league had a lot more guys playing the Nash game, the flow and control game of Magic and Bird.

I just really enjoy seeing more of a Magic game than a Jordan game. And when Nash retires there won't be many more guys left playing that way.

Naptown_Seth
03-24-2012, 10:09 AM
Besides Hibbert being set up somewhere near Muncie when defending the PnR, the other defensive issue that makes me want to jump over the balcony is when one of our guards tries to flash past and "steal" the ball from the ballhandler - missing and leaving a wide open red-carpeted lane to a layup.

Maybe that might shake up a rookie, but Nash? That stuff needs to be stopped. It's a symptom of trying to defend the ball instead of defending the players.
I commented about this to my buddy when DC did it later in the game. Although that time I think Paul rotated over and stopped the penetration. Need to look at the tape but I remember DC getting "bailed out" on a ridiculous steal lunge.

vnzla81
03-24-2012, 10:14 AM
Besides Hibbert being set up somewhere near Muncie when defending the PnR, the other defensive issue that makes me want to jump over the balcony is when one of our guards tries to flash past and "steal" the ball from the ballhandler - missing and leaving a wide open red-carpeted lane to a layup.

Maybe that might shake up a rookie, but Nash? That stuff needs to be stopped. It's a symptom of trying to defend the ball instead of defending the players.

Oh yeah and we got also lucky that Michael Redd was not making 3's yesterday or that game would have been done before the 4th quarter, they kept leaving him open for some reason.

Pingu
03-24-2012, 10:34 AM
Steve Nash is a an all-star surgeon.

He's also a floor general. In two words, he's the surgeon general...

Major Cold
03-24-2012, 10:54 AM
Vogel was screaming when Hill traveled. It escalated when PG tied up Nash.

Actually I wanted Vogel to get his second tech 2 minutes earlier. I wanted to see Shaw in action with a large enough time frame. But I think Frank leaving early would have rallied the troops with more time.


We got out rebounded. Our defensive rotations were slow. We made stupid passes. Our starters offensive spacing was preseason form. We could not keep them out of the lane. If it was not for our bench we would have gotten blown out.


David West was worthless tonight. Darren was even more so. Danny's play was great. And we failed to go to Hibbert because only PG can throw an interior pass when Roy is fronted.


Tonight is vital or we lose 3 in a row.

Hibbert
03-24-2012, 11:04 AM
We got out rebounded. Our defensive rotations were slow. We made stupid passes. Our starters offensive spacing was preseason form. We could not keep them out of the lane. If it was not for our bench we would have gotten blown out.

David West was worthless tonight. Darren was even more so. Danny's play was great. And we failed to go to Hibbert because only PG can throw an interior pass when Roy is fronted.


First of all, we out rebounded them 39 to 37. Second, D. West played very solid tonight and shot 50% from the floor and two of his misses were no calls that should of been FT's. Darren also had a good game shooting 4/7 to go along with 7 AST's, and 3 REB's. Sure, neither of them put up all-star numbers but both played very good games.

Justin Tyme
03-24-2012, 11:38 AM
Most people wouldn't have blown as many calls as the refs did tonight.

Six pairs of eyeballs missing stuff like that is inexcusable.


6 pairs??

Justin Tyme
03-24-2012, 11:51 AM
Sometimes One has to just watch an artist work to really appreciate what the artist creates. STEVE NASH!!!!

How can you not love what he accomplishes, and wish he played on YOUR team! Example: falling down on the baseline with enough presence to pass the ball to Gortat for a basket. PURE ARTISTRY!!!!!!!!!!!! AND at 38 years young. WOW JUST WOW!

As a FA, he'll be in high demand this off season.

BrownBearCoffee
03-24-2012, 12:02 PM
First of all, we out rebounded them 39 to 37. Second, D. West played very solid tonight and shot 50% from the floor and two of his misses were no calls that should of been FT's. Darren also had a good game shooting 4/7 to go along with 7 AST's, and 3 REB's. Sure, neither of them put up all-star numbers but both played very good games.

I agree with all of your points, save Collison's game, and I actually like Darren Collison. He was 4/7 yes, but at least 2 of those attempts were shots he probably shouldn't have been taking; that said, I don't care about his shooting percentage. What bothers me is his complete lack of defense. Hibbert gets a lot of flack for playing too high on the pick-n-roll, but if you look at games he really has no choice. Collison cannot keep anyone in front of him. This is creating a domino effect in our defensive rotations. He can score 25 every night, but until he learns to move his feet and fight through screens, our defense is going to be so up and down that it will be impossible to count on it, and we are supposed to be a defensive club.

Sookie
03-24-2012, 12:13 PM
Paul started disrupting or breaking up plays all over the place when he returned in the 2nd half and was a big reason why they salvaged a shot at the game. But why did it have to get to that point?

DC and Barbosa are NOT more valuable to the Pacers than Paul George. For every mistake he makes 2 critical defensive plays that break up a possession or slow it down enough to give the team a shot at defending it (like turning away a dribble penetration, no steal or block but the easy shot is prevented).




Because Larry went out and got another shooting guard. And Vogel insists on playing Dahntay Jones.

Sandman21
03-24-2012, 12:20 PM
6 pairs??
1:40 AM brain to keyboard fart.:) Plus my math scores were never all that great to begin with.:laugh:

Sandman21
03-24-2012, 12:32 PM
THE PACER MANIAC ‏ @TheSandman21
@pwilson24 Vogel say anything in post game press conference?

Phillip B Wilson Phillip B Wilson ‏ @pwilson24
@TheSandman21 I asked about getting ejected, he said he couldn't say anything. Doesn't want to get fined.

Alas, Frank Vogel is a better man than I am. I'd have written the fine check right then and there.

Dgreenwell3
03-24-2012, 12:49 PM
You know I must say I was a little worried about frank...he and my brother in law have known each other for awhile and when he got rehired I was worried that the job would be too much for him...I was dead wrong, franks the perfect guy for the job.

Pacersalltheway10
03-24-2012, 02:50 PM
The more I watch college basketball, the more I hate the NBA. I rarely see ticky tack fouls called in college ball but they get called on nearly every other play in the NBA. College basketball is the definition of physical.

If I was I was NBA commissioner, I'd clean house and clean this **** up.

MiaDragon
03-24-2012, 03:12 PM
The more I watch college basketball, the more I hate the NBA. I rarely see ticky tack fouls called in college ball but they get called on nearly every other play in the NBA. College basketball is the definition of physical.

If I was I was NBA commissioner, I'd clean house and clean this **** up.

Id be fine either way as long as it was CONSISTENT, I get it every fan base thinks its team is on the short end of the stick when it comes to foul calls but damn we're getting screwed and its getting old.

CJ Jones
03-24-2012, 04:25 PM
Also what is the deal with the lower Paul PT. Paul is still making mistakes for sure; has trouble with protecting his dribble, etc. But PAUL is the reason why they were able to start defending Gortat. It was Paul who rotated under Gortat on what would have been another easy 2 at the rim and knocked the ball loose.

Paul started disrupting or breaking up plays all over the place when he returned in the 2nd half and was a big reason why they salvaged a shot at the game. But why did it have to get to that point?

DC and Barbosa are NOT more valuable to the Pacers than Paul George. For every mistake he makes 2 critical defensive plays that break up a possession or slow it down enough to give the team a shot at defending it (like turning away a dribble penetration, no steal or block but the easy shot is prevented).



The staff and the players themselves better start figuring out where their bread is buttered because if they keep relying on the wrong plans or the wrong players it's only going to get worse.


Because Larry went out and got another shooting guard. And Vogel insists on playing Dahntay Jones.

I'm going to say it here because I don't know where else to put it... Paul George needs to be on the floor a minimum of 32 minutes a night. If that means cutting out Dahntay's minutes, so be it. He's too important to be pulled out of games for 10 minute stretches.

I know I'll get ridiculed for this, but I'm gonna say it anyway... I'm starting to worry about Paul being developed alongside Darren and Danny. Their lack of IQ is costing Paul a basket or two every game, and I'm afraid that some Danny's bad habits are beginning to rub off on Paul (shot selection).

People like to make the Reggie/Rose comparison here, but what helped Reggie be successful, besides the Davis boys screens, was the fact that he had great passers and play makers in Jackson and Rose to get him the ball. I think if we moved Paul to the SF, found our pointing PG and a SG that can make plays off the dribble, we'd see Paul's #'s skyrocket.

If Paul's the future of this team, and we think he's capable of being a superstar, then we need to start developing him like one. Most great players in the league were given the ball early and often to start their careers which in turn helped them develop faster.

Maybe I'm just impatient, but I don't like what I'm seeing.

edit: I got a feeling this is gonna be another thread ending post by CJ... :D. I'm good at that.