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View Full Version : Kaman for our 1st round pick: Would you?



Hicks
03-15-2012, 11:46 PM
Well?

I wouldn't. Tempting, but I'm just personally not convinced it's enough value for that pick. Now, if he had ANOTHER YEAR to his contract? Absolutely I would have. But to rent him? Only if I were convinced he'd come back. I think some of you are, but I personally am not. I could see it either way, and it's easy to see why he wouldn't just as easily as you can conjure up a scenario where he would stay.

MiaDragon
03-15-2012, 11:47 PM
No sir.

ilive4sports
03-15-2012, 11:50 PM
2 month rental? No. Even with another year I'm not sure I would. This should be a good draft class.

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 11:54 PM
I wouldn't do it and like I said before I wanted Kaman since he was in LA, I even had some heated arguments with some people here :) I agree with Bird that you don't give a first round pick for a rental unless that guy is a huge difference maker(Nash, Dwill,etc) Kaman wasn't going to play that much to be a difference maker in my opinion.

Doddage
03-15-2012, 11:55 PM
Nope. Thank goodness Bird didn't do it.

Day-V
03-16-2012, 12:00 AM
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wintermute
03-16-2012, 12:09 AM
The other factor is that trading for Kaman would have used all our cap space, preventing any other move. We still have some 6m+ of cap space left, which could still be useful. Could give us a leg up in the buyout market since we could offer more money than most contenders could.

As for not giving up the first - I think there's a bit of groupthink going on here. Every NBA exec it seems thinks that the value of first rounders have gone up in the new CBA, so now they've become a bit overvalued. The reality is that the hit rate on drafting hasn't increased. Of course having cheap rookie contracts is good, but you can sign young veterans to cheap contracts as well. The Pacers in particular seem to be quite forward thinking in this aspect, having signed fairly young guys like Pendergraph and previously Solo to basically rookie contract money. This strategy hasn't worked out for us yet, but it's probably not worse than drafting late.

I'm not a fan of Kaman's game so I'm leaning towards no in the poll question, but it's not because I think our 2012 first rounder would be particularly valuable in itself. It could be more valuable as a trade asset though, so I wouldn't mind another George Hill type of trade come draft day.

ndcoltsnpacers
03-16-2012, 12:32 AM
Kaman wasn't going to win us a championship this year. Our first round pick in the next draft helps our future more than having Kaman for a couple months because it's one less young player, and less minutes now for a guy like Hansbrough to try to develop a consistent game.

Kemo
03-16-2012, 01:32 AM
absolutely not....


Why would he stay and sign on with the Pacers?

.... when he could bolt at the end of this season and sign with Miami and be the starting Center for a championship contending team.....who probably have the best chance out of all 30 teams to win a title within the next year or 2 at most, and possibly multiple titles ..

AesopRockOn
03-16-2012, 02:45 AM
The poll should be a little closer than 2-35. However, I would say that it is fair to be stingy and that the only way I would give up a first in a supposedly stacked draft would be for the inevitable upgrade at point guard.

Steagles
03-16-2012, 05:38 AM
Not without a reasonable extension.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Roaming Gnome
03-16-2012, 06:34 AM
Not just no... HELL NO!

Unclebuck
03-16-2012, 06:57 AM
I probably would. But then I tend to undervalue draft picks ahead of time. Kaman is a really good player and I would think we would have had a good chance to sign him longer term. I would protect the draft pick as much as I possibly could. Can you top 20 protect or can you only lottery protect.

Do you think Kaman could help the Pacers get to the ECF (meaning beat either the Bulls or the Heat to get there?) Does he enable the pacers to win another round of the playoffs. if you believe he would, then I think you make the deal.

Having said all that though, I have no problem with the pacers not trading a first rounder for him. Some are saying the Hornets will buy him out and who knows maybe the Pacers could sign him then. But if that is a real possibility the Pacers have not campaigned as hard as they should have.

sportfireman
03-16-2012, 06:58 AM
After I answered no I thought......wait we just did that. G. Hill could walk after this season and we shelled out a first for him.

PacerPenguins
03-16-2012, 07:03 AM
After I answered no I thought......wait we just did that. G. Hill could walk after this season and we shelled out a first for him.

different draft.... this years draft is by far 500 times more deep

sportfireman
03-16-2012, 07:11 AM
different draft.... this years draft is by far 500 times more deep

i understand but no one mentioned depth of draft, most posters mentioned no wasting a pick on a rental.

PacerPenguins
03-16-2012, 07:21 AM
i understand but no one mentioned depth of draft, most posters mentioned no wasting a pick on a rental.

hill=66 games and its likely we resign him and kaman=25 games and prob won't resign

sportfireman
03-16-2012, 07:26 AM
hill=66 games and its likely we resign him and kaman=25 games and prob won't resign

Thats still a rental and nothing is in stone we sign him.... he may test the market. 66, 34, 81, 25 games is a rental, one season is a rental. IMO.

Pacerized
03-16-2012, 07:30 AM
I've said all along that I wouldn't send out a first for a rental and as that rental time gets shorter nothing has changed my mind.
If Kaman were to be extended to a reasonable contract then I'd be happy to give up that first and a young player like Lance or even Tyler.
If we really want Kaman I think we stand a good chance at landing him in the summer. It depends on how Larry wants to spend our cap space. Kaman will not go to Miami for their mini mle when he can get 3 times that playing for us. If we can't land DWill, I think a run at Kaman might be a good idea.
Are there any other really good point guards out there? Nash won't be around long enough to waste our last chance with cap space on him. If we signed Kaman and Roy, we would then have the assets to make a trade for a great pg using any of our 4 big men or Granger if need be. Larry needs to spend that cap space to bring in one more big asset otherwise we'll never be below the cap again during the next 4-5 years.

LoneGranger33
03-16-2012, 07:30 AM
I think we're about to give out some big money this off-season. Kaman might re-sign with us, but we're going to need solid players with cheap contracts over the next couple of years of contention.

Pacerized
03-16-2012, 07:33 AM
Thats still a rental and nothing is in stone we sign him.... he may test the market. 66, 34, 81, 25 games is a rental, one season is a rental. IMO.
I agree and I thought that when I read Larry's comment that he didn't give away 1st. round picks for rentals.
If the price is still 7 mil for Hill, I still don't want him at that price. He's perfect for the roll he plays for us but combo guards off the bench are a dime a dozen. I hope Larry just lets the market determine his value and matches it. There is no way Hill gets more then an MLE offer.

Trader Joe
03-16-2012, 07:58 AM
No, the first round pick, coupled with some of our young talent, and our cap space will be a big chip to play with on draft day.

wintermute
03-16-2012, 08:01 AM
After I answered no I thought......wait we just did that. G. Hill could walk after this season and we shelled out a first for him.

Hill is RFA... it's a big difference. If Hill walks it's because we chose not to keep him.

As to our chances of re-signing Kaman, well he's going to get offers north of $10m - do we really want to pay that much for our backup C?

Pacerized
03-16-2012, 08:07 AM
Hill is RFA... it's a big difference. If Hill walks it's because we chose not to keep him.

As to our chances of re-signing Kaman, well he's going to get offers north of $10m - do we really want to pay that much for our backup C?

Good point, there is a big difference in at least we have the choice to match on a rfa.

Hicks
03-16-2012, 09:19 AM
Thats still a rental and nothing is in stone we sign him.... he may test the market. 66, 34, 81, 25 games is a rental, one season is a rental. IMO.

It's not set in stone, but he IS a RESTRICTED free agent. I believe Kaman will be UNRESTRICTED.

Sherlock
03-16-2012, 09:42 AM
I probably would. But then I tend to undervalue draft picks ahead of time. Kaman is a really good player and I would think we would have had a good chance to sign him longer term. I would protect the draft pick as much as I possibly could. Can you top 20 protect or can you only lottery protect.

Do you think Kaman could help the Pacers get to the ECF (meaning beat either the Bulls or the Heat to get there?) Does he enable the pacers to win another round of the playoffs. if you believe he would, then I think you make the deal.

Having said all that though, I have no problem with the pacers not trading a first rounder for him. Some are saying the Hornets will buy him out and who knows maybe the Pacers could sign him then. But if that is a real possibility the Pacers have not campaigned as hard as they should have.

If the question comes to whether Kaman will sign with us after this season, the chance might be not as good.

He can always sign with Lakers for even less money, or he can sign with other teams to be a starter.
Or he will demand huge money that he become a luxury that we can not afford.

We have/will invest huge money on West/Hibbert, and we might still want to land either Nash or D.Will.

Sparhawk
03-16-2012, 09:49 AM
Not a chance in hell.

Sparhawk
03-16-2012, 09:49 AM
I wouldn't mind going after Kaman in the offseason. Along with DWill or Nash.

dohman
03-16-2012, 10:03 AM
For the sake of pacers profitability I would. If he comes in and we go into the playoffs with a hot streak and do well its going to make it easier to sell tickets next year. This team needs a good playoff push to get fans excited again. He may be a one and done but our draft pick is going to be very close to the second round. Like Unclebuck said I undervalue draft pics ahead of time and I honestly do not believe there is anyone we would draft that would crack our rotation next year. With that said you roll the dice and take a chance.

Eddie Gill
03-16-2012, 10:30 AM
Looks like as close to consensus as we can reach - no.

flox
03-16-2012, 10:57 AM
I personally would given if I thought he would be bought out. If I had the chance to give up our first round pick for amazing big man depth for the playoffs, the potential to have bird rights and sign and trade rights for Kaman, and the ability to block him from going to the Heat, all for a ~25ish first round pick (traditionally weak), I'd do it.

MillerTime
03-16-2012, 11:00 AM
No, only because there is a possibility he wont retain him past this year (his contact expires)

beast23
03-16-2012, 03:09 PM
A 1st round pick is always a good bargaining chip. I don't think we wanted to lose that pick going into a strong draft with a lot of cap space to also make trades. It's not likely that we will get a better player through the draft, but it is reasonable that the pick or the player that it gets us could help us in a trade this summer.

I would have deeply regretted giving up the pick for Kaman, only to find out sometime this summer that we couldn't complete a trade during or just prior to the draft for an even better player because we didn't have that pick.

I like Kaman as a backup... a lot. But I would never give up the pick without some kind of extension already worked out and I think Kaman will be somewhat expensive. I also believe that PG is proving to be a far greater need.

We do need to evaluate Hill at PG. But if we enter the summer and still need a PG and we can only seem to land one of a starting PG or a backup center, then I hope we find the right PG.

I just think that our options may have been somewhat limited or restricted had we gotten Kaman with the first round pick, with or without an extension worked out.

Eleazar
03-16-2012, 05:17 PM
I would only do it if we could guarantee he would be here after this season. In my opinion the ability to get him to re-sign would be dependent on playoff success, and I'm not convinced we would have enough success with him here. I think we would have a good chance to get to the ECF with him, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

Nuntius
03-16-2012, 06:09 PM
So, is this the most lopsided PD poll or what?

PR07
03-16-2012, 06:42 PM
I'd say no. I think he would've helped a lot, but I don't think he's a true difference maker in the role of a Steve Nash or Ray Allen. Consequently, I wouldn't feel obliged to surrender a first round pick for a half season's rental of him. I also wouldn't see him re-signing as he would've had starting opportunities elsewhere.