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Lance George
03-15-2012, 11:10 AM
Marc J. Spears ‏ @SpearsNBAYahoo
Indiana Pacers acquiring guard Leandro Barbosa in a trade with Toronto Raptors, source tells Y!

Major Cold
03-15-2012, 11:13 AM
That would be a good pickup. Who did we get rid of?

Brad8888
03-15-2012, 11:13 AM
:confused:

No wonder DC has been the way he has been. I wonder what actually important player will come along with him?

MillerTime
03-15-2012, 11:14 AM
I wonder what we got dealt away.

Hes a good scorer off the bench and end of games, but isnt a very good defender

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 11:14 AM
I think we can say goodbye to getting Kaman now.


By the way I wanted Barbosa so I'm happy :dance::dance:

RichardHawes
03-15-2012, 11:15 AM
Holy hell I love Barbosa

PacerPride33
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
Much rather have kaman

JB24
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
Let's give credit to (the poster) Hibbert. Dude broke the news about an hour ago.

MagicRat
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
For a second rounder, according to David Aldridge's twitter acct...

Day-V
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
Wells says 2nd Round Pick. I'll take it!

https://twitter.com/#!/MikeWellsNBA/status/180311330614542336

Day-V
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
EDIT: IDK how that last post double posted, so I'll just post this instead.


http://student.nu.ac.th/pisit/barbosa.jpg

duke dynamite
03-15-2012, 11:17 AM
Mike Wells tweeted it was for a 2nd rd. pick.

MillerTime
03-15-2012, 11:17 AM
I wonder where this leaves the 2nd unit. They seemed pretty content with Price, Hill, Jones, Hansbrough, Lou....

They might be putting Hill back at PG, Barbosa to SG and shifting Price to the bench

Lance George
03-15-2012, 11:17 AM
https://twitter.com/#!/daldridgetnt

David Aldridge ‏ @daldridgetnt
Source confirms @SpearsNBAYahoo report that Pacers will acquire Leandro Barbosa from Toronto. Source says Raptors will get a second-rounder.

David Aldridge ‏ @daldridgetnt
Pacers wanted to get a scorer for the stretch run. Had $14 million in cap space available.

yoadknux
03-15-2012, 11:19 AM
Raptors get a second-round pick in exchange from Pacers for Barbosa.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 11:19 AM
For a second round pick, I am ok with it, but I don't think it makes us any better.

Props to Hibbert for breaking the news first.

MillerTime
03-15-2012, 11:19 AM
2nd round pick for Barbosa who expires this year...I love it

ApNeDtRiEeW
03-15-2012, 11:20 AM
How much does he make?

5_7_Clash
03-15-2012, 11:20 AM
I hope this is a precursor to a move that actually makes sense.

Hibbert
03-15-2012, 11:20 AM
its for a second rd pick

Aw Heck
03-15-2012, 11:21 AM
I'm okay with him I guess. The Pacers still have roughly $7 million in cap room.

It's just Barbosa is neither a good backup big man nor a playmaking PG. And I feel like we already have a younger, better version of him in George Hill.

I hope this is not the only deal the Pacers make today.

PR07
03-15-2012, 11:22 AM
I'd rather have Kaman, but it's not like we gave up much. Should be a nice scoring option to have off the bench. We might not be done today either.

MillerTime
03-15-2012, 11:22 AM
How much does he make?

$7,600,000

Mackey_Rose
03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
The only thing this does is make the change to George Hill as a starter more palatable for the bench.

I don't think this makes a big difference. Hope it isn't the only move coming.

PacerPenguins
03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
Hill starts now imo.... with DC and Barbosa coming off the bench

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
Who loses minutes to Barbosa? I know my strategist wants to say, there's no way we now end today with DC, Hill, Barbosa, Price all on the roster. But the realist in me says this is probably it.

Hibbert
03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
doesnt this make things obvious? getting Leandro opens the door for Hill to start now.

Day-V
03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
Props to Hibbert for breaking the news first.


Hmm...I'm not seeing any tweets from the Big Fella about it. Did he say it in a radio interview?

5_7_Clash
03-15-2012, 11:24 AM
I'm glad we got him for cheap and glad his contract is expiring. He can used as a good asset for a future trade. Other than that, he's Dahntay Jones with better offense and worse defense. No help this year unless he fills a void left by a bigger trade.

pacer4ever
03-15-2012, 11:24 AM
I hope this is a precursor to a move that actually makes sense.

Agreed SG is our best position we need a big really bad. If Kaman for a 2nd was on the table we should of done that over this. Barbosa isn't a scorer he is a streaky shooter much like George Hill but Hill actually defends. Hill is a better version of Barbosa.


We will still have flexibility at the draft we could trade his contract so we will still have 14m in cap space essentially going into the draft if we dont make another move. I just hope we are super aggressive on draft day.

daschysta
03-15-2012, 11:24 AM
Hill could start at pg, barbosa could backup the 2, DC can be a super bench player.

Barbosa is averaging over 12 ppg in 22 minutes, he can score, and help us. We got a big talent upgrade on the bench for a 2nd round pick.

PG-24
03-15-2012, 11:25 AM
doesnt this make things obvious? getting Leandro opens the door for Hill to start now.

pretty much this.

FlavaDave
03-15-2012, 11:26 AM
I'm for it! Second rounder to make our bench the best in the league. Hill, Barbosa, Jones, Hans, and Admunson with Price, Stephenson, and Foster off the bench would be a playoff team in the East by themselves.

Unclebuck
03-15-2012, 11:26 AM
If I were Collison I might be a little nervous right now. Not that Barbosa is a replacement for Collison - no, not at all, but he does provide more flexibility in the backcourt and makes is easier to move Hill to a starting spot

PacerPenguins
03-15-2012, 11:26 AM
Hmm...I'm not seeing any tweets from the Big Fella about it. Did he say it in a radio interview?

no the guy named Hibbert that posts on these forums....props to him

Unclebuck
03-15-2012, 11:27 AM
The only thing this does is make the change to George Hill as a starter more palatable for the bench.



I think that is the reason why this trade makes some sense

IU_sears
03-15-2012, 11:29 AM
Not that it will matter... but remember the spat the Pacers and Raptors had last year when a Pacer shot a three at the end of a blowout game and tensions were high. If I remember correctly Barbosa did the same thing as an eff you later in the season and started some drama... Just kind of an interesting/ironic point to the trade.

I like the deal though! Fills a need for some scoring punch off the bench, DC and Barbosa will be hard to contain. GH secured the starting role last night hopefully!

Magic P
03-15-2012, 11:30 AM
We're going to need Barbosa if Hill gets hurt again.

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 11:30 AM
That's interesting. I wanted to have a 2nd round pick in this draft but Leandro Barbosa is worth more than that in our team at the moment. So, I'll take it.

BringJackBack
03-15-2012, 11:31 AM
Getting a 12 ppg scorer in 22.5 Minutes is a very good deal for us no matter what. He is what Jamal Crawford would have been for us this season for a second round pick. Good deal, and we may not even be done yet...

BRushWithDeath
03-15-2012, 11:33 AM
The only way this could make a lick of sense is if they're planning on starting Hill and benching Collison. I think that's a good move.

What I think will be absolutely awful is the defensive backcourt of Collison and Barbosa. If we think Collison is bad defensively with George or Hill at the two, and he is, he'll be truly abysmal with Barbosa.

If Kamen is moved for a 2nd before 3:00, this is a truly horrible move.

Shade
03-15-2012, 11:34 AM
Meh, I would have much rather had Kaman. I don't think this really makes us much better.

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 11:34 AM
Good deal, and we may not even be done yet...

I hope we are not. I still want to move up to the draft someway :p

purdue101
03-15-2012, 11:34 AM
Barbosa will be nice off the bench. He can definitely supplement Hill, who deserves to start. AJ has played well and deserves backup PG duties.

DC, a 1st, and 1 of our starters for a major talent at 1 starting position would be nice right now.

Speed
03-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Hill starts now imo.... with DC and Barbosa coming off the bench

Possible, I hate to see AJ mins go away, he played really nice D last night.

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Meh, I would have much rather had Kaman. I don't think this really makes us much better.

I'd rather have Kaman as well but I cannot argue with that either. At least, we got something out of our cap space.

BornReady
03-15-2012, 11:36 AM
Who loses minutes to Barbosa? I know my strategist wants to say, there's no way we now end today with DC, Hill, Barbosa, Price all on the roster. But the realist in me says this is probably it.

Don't forget Lance too :P

PacerPenguins
03-15-2012, 11:36 AM
[Comment From Chris Chris: ]
After the Barbosa trade, are the Pacers done for today or should we expect something else from Bird?
Thursday March 15, 2012 11:34 Chris
11:35 Chad Ford: Like that Barbosa trade a lot for the Pacers. They wanted another scorer off the bench and allows them to move George Hill to the point. He's been playing great lately. They still have around $5.5-$6 million in cap space ... so yes, I think they'll be active



.

chrisjacobs7
03-15-2012, 11:36 AM
Comment From Chris
After the Barbosa trade, are the Pacers done for today or should we expect something else from Bird?

Chad Ford: Like that Barbosa trade a lot for the Pacers. They wanted another scorer off the bench and allows them to move George Hill to the point. He's been playing great lately. They still have around $5.5-$6 million in cap space ... so yes, I think they'll be active

Sounds like another move may be coming...

rexnom
03-15-2012, 11:37 AM
You guys have an awfully short memory. We don't score like we did against the Sixers every night. Getting a microwave scorer with playoff experience will be great.

MiaDragon
03-15-2012, 11:38 AM
(http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nba/175046/report-pacers-set-to-acquire-leandro-barbosa)Yahoo! is reporting that the Pacers are set to acquire G Leandro Barbosa from the Raptors, and the Star's Mike Wells adds that it's for a second-round pick.
The Pacers already have a logjam brewing at point guard between Darren Collison and George Hill, while Paul George should be locked into all the minutes he can handle at shooting guard, as the future of the franchise. Barbosa's value takes a hit in Indy, while guys like DeMar DeRozan and Linas Kleiza should see more touches in Toronto. Perhaps the biggest impact here is that it likely means the Pacers will no longer be making a run at Chris Kaman.

damn

ksuttonjr76
03-15-2012, 11:38 AM
I thought Barbosa had a reputation of being a good defensive player?

thefeistyone
03-15-2012, 11:39 AM
I don't think Kamen for a 2nd was on the table...it was probably Kamen and a 1st, Bird would be right to turn that one down.

I like the the move, makes the 2nd unit better and it will really help us if Hill misses anymore games. We really miss him when he's out. Low risk, moderate reward if he pans out.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 11:39 AM
The way the Indy media is acting, it might as well be a done deal that Hill is moving into the starting lineup. With how well Price is playing don't you have to start shopping DC for the next few hours and see if he can get you anything?

ReginaldWayne
03-15-2012, 11:39 AM
So,

Are most of us in agreement that if roster stays as is then we see a responsibility swap between DC and Hill?

I Love P
03-15-2012, 11:39 AM
Check out the Raptors forum. Their fans aren't too happy...

http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/barbosa-traded-22471.html

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 11:40 AM
You guys have an awfully short memory. We don't score like we did against the Sixers every night. Getting a microwave scorer with playoff experience will be great.

It can sure be said that a lot of people here are high from the last 2 games. Getting a good scorer off the bench is surely a great thing. We just try to hypothetize about our possible rotations :p

I Love P
03-15-2012, 11:40 AM
Are we getting Anthony Carter, too?

Hibbert
03-15-2012, 11:40 AM
Let's give credit to (the poster) Hibbert. Dude broke the news about an hour ago.

Right on, you didn't believe me though. ;)

BringJackBack
03-15-2012, 11:41 AM
Some people are just impossible to please... We got an eighth scorer for free.

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 11:41 AM
I thought Barbosa had a reputation of being a good defensive player?

No, not really. Better than Calderon but that really doesn't say a lot.

CableKC
03-15-2012, 11:41 AM
After Barbosa, we'd be at $51.7 mil.

What is the Salary Cap? $59 mil?

If so, that means that we can still absorb about $7.3 mil in contracts without sending anything back. I could be wrong...but the Kings and Cavs have more CapSpace than the Pacers now to help facilitate moves.

pacer4ever
03-15-2012, 11:42 AM
Who loses minutes to Barbosa? I know my strategist wants to say, there's no way we now end today with DC, Hill, Barbosa, Price all on the roster. But the realist in me says this is probably it.

I would shop DC hard and if that fails we are in a pickle. AJ deserves to play over him currently and with the way his defense has been since he got back in the rotation he should keep his minutes.


Ghill/AJ/dc
PG24/Barbosa/DC
Granger/look for a upgrade in trade??
West/Lou/Tyler
Hibbert/look for a trade??? LOU



if JO and a 2nd is on the table I would gamble that JO can play down the stretch and if he doesn't no big deal he is an expiring we could just let him expire or trade him on draft day for a team shedding money.

MagicRat
03-15-2012, 11:43 AM
Some people are just impossible to please... We got an eighth scorer for free.

Not to mention a former 6th man of the year.....

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 11:43 AM
Some people are just impossible to please... We got an eighth scorer for free.

I don't think anyone is sad. It's mostly that a lot of people wanted a big rather than a scorer off the bench. I'd be fine with either.

Unclebuck
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
I believe 100% if the pacers could have acquired Kaman they would have. if they could have acquired Kaman for what they wanted to give up.

So it wasn't Bird sitting there trying to decide Barbosa or Kaman. Kaman fell through weeks ago and Pacers could not get it revived to their liking.

So the argument that says well I'd rather have kaman I think is nonsense. Of course we would rather have Kaman, but it was not available to us in our price range. Sort of like asking someone why they bought a cheap $200K house when just next door was a $500K house. (The price was the reason

idioteque
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
I like the trade. Barbosa seems like a hard-nosed player that doesn't take a lot of junk, he will probably fit in well with our locker room. Except he will have to make amends with Danny. :p And with Barbosa and Hill on our roster, we now have two guys who have gotten into confrontations with Kobe Bryant.

I would rather have had Kaman, but not for a first round pick. Trade also shows that Simon is willing to spend some coin to make the team better.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
Yeah, I think right now you have to be shopping DC as hard as you can over the next several hours. Perhaps you fall face first into a nice steal.

Naptown_Seth
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
The only thing this does is make the change to George Hill as a starter more palatable for the bench.

I don't think this makes a big difference. Hope it isn't the only move coming.
I agree.

Paul George played 19 minutes last night. AJ is playing pretty well with George out there.

Lou is picking it up, but Jeff is virtually not on the roster and Tyler isn't a true big. With Roy slumping you could REALLY use that other big, way more than you need the other scorer.


You need Barbosa ONLY if A) Hill is hurt or B) DC is traded.

You need Kaman regardless, especially vs the Bulls. Very odd use of the cap space.

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
I don't think we are done, something is happening I have a feeling that we are getting another an a point guard someway somehow.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
We also apparently got Anthony Carter....I have no idea why.

idioteque
03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
I don't know about shopping DC. Barbosa's contract expires at the end of the year, correct?

BornReady
03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
Are we getting Anthony Carter, too?

even if we do we know he's not going to do much
he doesn't even really play anymore and has a small expiring contract of 1.3 mil

JB24
03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
Right on, you didn't believe me though. ;)

:blush:

Aw Heck
03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
I have nothing against Barbosa or what we gave up for him. I'm worried about the opportunity cost here. His contract took away half of our capspace.

I just hope acquiring him didn't eliminate the Pacers from any other deals. If this is the only deal the Pacers make today, I will be disappointed. I would rather have had Kaman.

90'sNBARocked
03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
I wanted a scorer off the bench too

just not another "tweener"

Better than nothing, but I hope its a precursor to something bigger

What does this mean know for AJ? Lance?

Wasnt LA interested in AJ? I think to move AJ at this point would be good for both the Lakers and AJ

pacer4ever
03-15-2012, 11:45 AM
Check out the Raptors forum. Their fans aren't too happy...

http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/barbosa-traded-22471.html

LOL


one of their fans though they were getting George Hill back the other though Paul George. LOL Crack is a hell of a drug. If Larry Bird traded ethier one for Barbosa I would of been irate.


Barbosa is a nice get considering the price but we need to get a C aswell IMO and maybe a SF.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 11:46 AM
I don't think we are done, something is happening I have a feeling that we are getting another an a point guard someway somehow.


You still think we're gonna be targeting another PG? :lol: I don't see how we could do that. I mean I'd love Rondo, but that's not gonna fall in our lap. If anything you'd think we're shopping DC for a big right now.

idioteque
03-15-2012, 11:47 AM
We also apparently got Anthony Carter....I have no idea why.

Where are you seeing this? If true, I imagine that would have to be for trade bait or something (although I can't imagine he is in high demand).

Unclebuck
03-15-2012, 11:47 AM
I thought Barbosa had a reputation of being a good defensive player?


I think he is average overall. But when he is really into it he can be better than average.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 11:47 AM
You guys think we could get a first round pick for DC? Would that be a move people would be interested in?

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 11:48 AM
Where are you seeing this? If true, I imagine that would have to be for trade bait or something (although I can't imagine he is in high demand).

Sam Amick reported it on the twitters.

Hibbert
03-15-2012, 11:48 AM
We also apparently got Anthony Carter....I have no idea why.

I think Price will be moving.

JB24
03-15-2012, 11:50 AM
We got Carter as a third point guard for when we trade DC. Why would they take him on just to waive him?

Lance George
03-15-2012, 11:50 AM
Barbosa's a guy who can not only score 20+ on any given night, he's one of the most efficient players in the league.

According to Basketball Reference, he has the 10th best career eFG% amongst active players (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/efg_pct_active.html):

<table data-crop="50" data-freeze="6" class="stats_table"><tbody><tr class=""><th align="right">Rank</th> <th align="left">Player</th> <th align="right">eFG%</th> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">1.</td> <td class="bold_text">Dwight Howard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5776</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">2.</td> <td class="bold_text">Tyson Chandler (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5757</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">3.</td> <td class="bold_text">Nene Hilario (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hilarne01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5600</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">4.</td> <td class="bold_text">Steve Nash (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5569</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">5.</td> <td class="bold_text">Mike Miller (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millemi01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5483</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">6.</td> <td class="bold_text">Eddy Curry (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryed01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5451</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">7.</td> <td class="bold_text">Kyle Korver (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/korveky01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5425</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">8.</td> <td class="bold_text">David Lee (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5421</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">9.</td> <td class="bold_text">Carlos Boozer (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boozeca01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5365</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">10.</td> <td class="bold_text">Leandro Barbosa (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barbole01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5345</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">11.</td> <td class="bold_text">Amare Stoudemire (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5342</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">12.</td> <td class="bold_text">Peja Stojakovic (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stojape01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5322</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">13.</td> <td class="bold_text">Ray Allen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allenra02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5289</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">14.</td> <td class="bold_text">Paul Millsap (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5266</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">15.</td> <td class="bold_text">Shane Battier (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/battish01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5257</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">16.</td> <td class="bold_text">Rashard Lewis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5243</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">17.</td> <td class="bold_text">Andrew Bogut (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bogutan01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5225</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">18.</td> <td class="bold_text">Pau Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5221</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">19.</td> <td class="bold_text">Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5212</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">20.</td> <td class="bold_text">Samuel Dalembert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dalemsa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5183</td></tr></tbody></table>

The next highest Pacer is Danny Granger at 44th. Barbosa should be a big boast to our inefficient offense.

Naptown_Seth
03-15-2012, 11:53 AM
Some people are just impossible to please... We got an eighth scorer for free.
It cost you the ability to acquire a player you really need for "free". So your definition of free differs from mine.

You don't just trade the pick, you surrender your favorable status and leverage in the market for a guy that the team technically has in surplus if George Hill stays healthy.


I mean I'm not even a big Lance believer as some star PG, but he's not too shabby as 10 minutes of wing play, including a little SF time.


But a poor game from Roy and the team is toast (or foul issues). Lou is picking it up, but Lou isn't "starter caliber focus point" picking it up.


If NO really wanted something like DC and this is just a technicality shuffle of 2nd for Barbosa so DC can get you Kaman then okay. Ultimately that is really just 2nd for Kaman and DC for Barbosa which is a reasonable, smart move.


But look, why not get to more scorers "for free", use the rest of the cap space to absorb bench scorers other teams don't want. Once you tag this idea as "for free" then why not. You don't need them and it costs cap space, but it's all free.
:rolleyes:

Speed
03-15-2012, 11:53 AM
Questions

1.) isn't BArbosa's 7.6 prorated? Does it all count against the cap/money available?

2.) You get Anthony Carter and Barbosa, maybe there's a DC trade, could this mean a larger deal involving a big name point guard?

BornReady
03-15-2012, 11:53 AM
Barbosa's a guy who can not only score 20+ on any given night, he's one of the most efficient players in the league.

According to Basketball Reference, he has the 10th best career eFG% amongst active players (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/efg_pct_active.html):

<table data-crop="50" data-freeze="6" class="stats_table"><tbody><tr class=""><th align="right">Rank</th> <th align="left">Player</th> <th align="right">eFG%</th> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">1.</td> <td class="bold_text">Dwight Howard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5776</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">2.</td> <td class="bold_text">Tyson Chandler (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5757</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">3.</td> <td class="bold_text">Nene Hilario (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hilarne01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5600</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">4.</td> <td class="bold_text">Steve Nash (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5569</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">5.</td> <td class="bold_text">Mike Miller (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millemi01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5483</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">6.</td> <td class="bold_text">Eddy Curry (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryed01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5451</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">7.</td> <td class="bold_text">Kyle Korver (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/korveky01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5425</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">8.</td> <td class="bold_text">David Lee (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5421</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">9.</td> <td class="bold_text">Carlos Boozer (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boozeca01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5365</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">10.</td> <td class="bold_text">Leandro Barbosa (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barbole01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5345</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">11.</td> <td class="bold_text">Amare Stoudemire (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5342</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">12.</td> <td class="bold_text">Peja Stojakovic (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stojape01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5322</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">13.</td> <td class="bold_text">Ray Allen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allenra02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5289</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">14.</td> <td class="bold_text">Paul Millsap (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5266</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">15.</td> <td class="bold_text">Shane Battier (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/battish01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5257</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">16.</td> <td class="bold_text">Rashard Lewis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5243</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">17.</td> <td class="bold_text">Andrew Bogut (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bogutan01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5225</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">18.</td> <td class="bold_text">Pau Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5221</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">19.</td> <td class="bold_text">Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5212</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">20.</td> <td class="bold_text">Samuel Dalembert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dalemsa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5183</td></tr></tbody></table>

The next highest Pacer is Danny Granger at 44th. Barbosa should be a big boast to our inefficient offense.

hehe Eddy Curry is on that list

on a side note, why would we trade DC? His contract is really small and he'd still make for a good backup pg...

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 11:53 AM
Man now we have like a million PG/SG combo guys, wtf?

PacerPenguins
03-15-2012, 11:55 AM
did we really get anthony carter too?

MiaDragon
03-15-2012, 11:55 AM
Eric Smith ‏ @Eric__Smith Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Confirming the reported #Raptors / #Pacers deal ... Barbosa for a 2nd round pick. A. Carter may be in trade too (likely won't stay in IND

granger
03-15-2012, 11:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvh1EM7MTdg&feature=player_embedded

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 11:58 AM
Barbosa's a guy who can not only score 20+ on any given night, he's one of the most efficient players in the league.

According to Basketball Reference, he has the 10th best career eFG% amongst active players (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/efg_pct_active.html):

<table data-crop="50" data-freeze="6" class="stats_table"><tbody><tr class=""><th align="right">Rank</th> <th align="left">Player</th> <th align="right">eFG%</th> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">1.</td> <td class="bold_text">Dwight Howard (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5776</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">2.</td> <td class="bold_text">Tyson Chandler (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5757</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">3.</td> <td class="bold_text">Nene Hilario (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hilarne01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5600</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">4.</td> <td class="bold_text">Steve Nash (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5569</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">5.</td> <td class="bold_text">Mike Miller (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millemi01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5483</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">6.</td> <td class="bold_text">Eddy Curry (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryed01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5451</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">7.</td> <td class="bold_text">Kyle Korver (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/korveky01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5425</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">8.</td> <td class="bold_text">David Lee (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5421</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">9.</td> <td class="bold_text">Carlos Boozer (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boozeca01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5365</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">10.</td> <td class="bold_text">Leandro Barbosa (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barbole01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5345</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">11.</td> <td class="bold_text">Amare Stoudemire (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stoudam01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5342</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">12.</td> <td class="bold_text">Peja Stojakovic (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stojape01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5322</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">13.</td> <td class="bold_text">Ray Allen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allenra02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5289</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="right">14.</td> <td class="bold_text">Paul Millsap (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5266</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">15.</td> <td class="bold_text">Shane Battier (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/battish01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5257</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">16.</td> <td class="bold_text">Rashard Lewis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html)</td> <td align="right">.5243</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">17.</td> <td class="bold_text">Andrew Bogut (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bogutan01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5225</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">18.</td> <td class="bold_text">Pau Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5221</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">19.</td> <td class="bold_text">Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5212</td> </tr> <tr class=""> <td align="right">20.</td> <td class="bold_text">Samuel Dalembert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dalemsa01.html)</td> <td align="right">.5183</td></tr></tbody></table>

The next highest Pacer is Danny Granger at 44th. Barbosa should be a big boast to our inefficient offense.

He can shoot very well and is strong enough to drive through contact. He is also a good ball handler. I can certainly see why he is efficient as a bench player.

Heisenberg
03-15-2012, 11:59 AM
What other team could fully absorb Kaman without sending back players?
Pretty sure none.

Dr. Awesome
03-15-2012, 11:59 AM
Idk, seems like a move just to make a move. I don't see how he fits in here. More of a Jim O'Brien player than a Vogel player.

Pig Nash
03-15-2012, 11:59 AM
Carter thing intrigues me. He's not staying so waived? Or dealt?

5_7_Clash
03-15-2012, 12:00 PM
Eric Smith ‏ @Eric__Smith Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Confirming the reported #Raptors / #Pacers deal ... Barbosa for a 2nd round pick. A. Carter may be in trade too (likely won't stay in IND

It definitely feels like there's more happening here that we don't know yet.

Since86
03-15-2012, 12:01 PM
If A.Carter is coming as well, then there's definitely another trade coming along. :fingerscrossed:

BornReady
03-15-2012, 12:02 PM
Carter thing intrigues me. He's not staying so waived? Or dealt?

I highly doubt he'd play for the Ps

glazedham42
03-15-2012, 12:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvh1EM7MTdg&feature=player_embedded

Hahaha. Lou at 1:05!!

Speed
03-15-2012, 12:03 PM
Regarding Carter, maybe Toronto needed the roster spot for another mover, just guessing I haven't researched it.

Heisenberg
03-15-2012, 12:03 PM
I don't think Barbosa'll be a regular rotation player.

Hibbert
03-15-2012, 12:04 PM
Idk, seems like a move just to make a move. I don't see how he fits in here. More of a Jim O'Brien player than a Vogel player.

More depth = more rest for our starters plus he can shoot from outside. We needed another scoring option off our bench. I dont see why people are upset with this deal. Pacers got a steal.

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 12:04 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we can pull an Steve Nash type of move, we could send DC+Price+expiring+picks for him.

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 12:05 PM
Regarding Carter, maybe Toronto needed the roster spot for another mover, just guessing I haven't researched it.

Toronto was going to cut him.

danman
03-15-2012, 12:05 PM
Good move, scoring off the bench. Needed some. And yes, I suspect DC is going to the bench as well.

Dahntay will be in the mix... But I suspect that AJ won't.

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 12:05 PM
More of a Jim O'Brien player than a Vogel player.

I disagree. Leandro likes to take it to the rack. He shoots 3s quite often because he is a good shooter but he will have no problem to drive through contact.

Brad8888
03-15-2012, 12:06 PM
Idk, seems like a move just to make a move. I don't see how he fits in here. More of a Jim O'Brien player than a Vogel player.

The Raptors finally have figured out that speed kills. At least they got rid of a cap issue and a defensive liability and got a second rounder to boost their future.

The Pacers got a speed demon gunner who does nothing for the offensive flow of the team, and spent half of the cap space to do so.

I really hope there is another move to get some help where it is needed, to re-implement smashmouth and increase its effectiveness. A big who can pass, rebound, and defend is what the biggest need of the franchise is IMO.

Mackey_Rose
03-15-2012, 12:07 PM
If it becomes a choice between AJ or DC, I'd take AJ

Speed
03-15-2012, 12:08 PM
Looking at the rotation with Barbosa, it does look improved, give you more scoring with the second unit. I think Barbosa at 20 mins can give you very good play on both ends. I think its AJ out of the rotation and maybe DJones, depending match ups and if there aren't any other moves. I like him at the end of games too. I can see him drawing a foul, in crunch time.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 12:08 PM
Toronto was going to cut him.

So we just took him on out of the goodness of our hearts?

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 12:09 PM
Pacers got a steal.

We got a steal for the price we paid. However, some people expected more out of our cap space and picks. I am not against this move. I'm just curious as to if we make another trade and how our rotation is going to look like.

MiaDragon
03-15-2012, 12:09 PM
Regarding Carter, maybe Toronto needed the roster spot for another mover, just guessing I haven't researched it.

I dont think so I think they are already short as is.

Aw Heck
03-15-2012, 12:10 PM
So we just took him on out of the goodness of our hearts?
Well, I'm sure Toronto would rather have us pay him. It was probably a part of the trade agreement.

"You give us Barbosa and we'll give you a second round pick and take some dead weight off your hands."

Justin Tyme
03-15-2012, 12:10 PM
Hill could start at pg, barbosa could backup the 2, DC can be a super bench player.

Barbosa is averaging over 12 ppg in 22 minutes, he can score, and help us. We got a big talent upgrade on the bench for a 2nd round pick.


Poor Stephenson another combo guard.

Speed
03-15-2012, 12:13 PM
Augustine still possibly available.

5_7_Clash
03-15-2012, 12:14 PM
I don't think anyone can argue that it was a good deal and its not that I don't like Barbosa as a player. He's got chops, for sure. We are SO jammed at the one and two that I can't wrap my head around how this helps unless we make another move. Can he be a great contributor? Absolutely. Who's minutes go away so he can be that kind of contributor? It doesn't make sense to me.

Frostwolf
03-15-2012, 12:15 PM
A big who can pass, rebound, and defend is what the biggest need of the franchise is IMO.

because those guys grow on trees, of course. nearly every team in the nba has some need for a good big.

RWB
03-15-2012, 12:15 PM
I think this is a great move. As hot as it's been in Indiana he'll think he's back in Brazil. I suspect the guy will bust his @ss big time for the Pacers because he's back in a real playoff hunt.

JB24
03-15-2012, 12:16 PM
Idk, seems like a move just to make a move. I don't see how he fits in here. More of a Jim O'Brien player than a Vogel player.

Should have traded for Felton, eh?

NapTonius Monk
03-15-2012, 12:16 PM
Check out the Raptors forum. Their fans aren't too happy...

http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/barbosa-traded-22471.html
Primarily because it seems some of them were expecting an unreal return. George Hill, Paul George, a first. Then came the news that it was for a 2nd rounder, and they're like :confused::(:mad::censored:

BillS
03-15-2012, 12:16 PM
In my mind one of our problems down low has been that we can't consistently punish teams for leaving our shooters open (last night notwithstanding).

Someone who comes in on an exception basis to give us a scoring punch seems to be exactly what we need. Granted, I don't watch enough other teams to know what TYPES of scoring Barbosa does, but ANY kind of consistent scorer in bench minutes seems to be an improvement we needed.

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 12:17 PM
We are SO jammed at the one and two that I can't wrap my head around how this helps unless we make another move.

This is a very valid argument. It is also the reason that I see us now making another trade before the deadline.

Justin Tyme
03-15-2012, 12:19 PM
I would shop DC hard and if that fails we are in a pickle. AJ deserves to play over him currently and with the way his defense has been since he got back in the rotation he should keep his minutes.


Ghill/AJ/dc
PG24/Barbosa/DC
Granger/look for a upgrade in trade??
West/Lou/Tyler
Hibbert/look for a trade??? LOU



if JO and a 2nd is on the table I would gamble that JO can play down the stretch and if he doesn't no big deal he is an expiring we could just let him expire or trade him on draft day for a team shedding money.



Why does Bird want to help the Celtics for a poor 2nd rd pick? Like I said in another thread, throw in J Johnson and the talks can begin.

Kegboy
03-15-2012, 12:20 PM
So we just took him on out of the goodness of our hearts?

No, I think Toronto wanted us to pay the rest of his contract.

However, Toronto was already well under the cap before this deal, and this takes them from $52M to under $45M (maybe as low as $43M depending on Carter.) Considering that salary computations are done at the end of the year, don't they have to worry about being under the floor?

RWB
03-15-2012, 12:20 PM
In my mind one of our problems down low has been that we can't consistently punish teams for leaving our shooters open (last night notwithstanding).


Absolutely!!!! Other than Hill coming off that bench who was going to be a consistent wing shooter. I am thrilled with this addition.!!!

pacer4ever
03-15-2012, 12:20 PM
In my mind one of our problems down low has been that we can't consistently punish teams for leaving our shooters open (last night notwithstanding).

Someone who comes in on an exception basis to give us a scoring punch seems to be exactly what we need. Granted, I don't watch enough other teams to know what TYPES of scoring Barbosa does, but ANY kind of consistent scorer in bench minutes seems to be an improvement we needed.

This is very true and the main reason when they played Lance and Djones together it fails. You need at least one shooter on the floor and now at all times we will have a shooter on the floor either Hill or Barbosa. If we shorten up the rotation and let Paul George get more PT at the SF we will really improve on offense IMO. But Vogel has a man crush on him so that likely wont happen.

Naptown_Seth
03-15-2012, 12:20 PM
because those guys grow on trees, of course. nearly every team in the nba has some need for a good big.
Which is why when you are basically the ONLY team that has access to getting a "spare" for the playoff stretch and playoffs, you have to do it.

If the cost was a first for that rental it would still be a good deal because of what you just said.


If Kaman went to the Bulls or Heat or Sixers or Magic for "free" every single Pacers fan would be crying woe is me about how unfair it was for them to have yet another strong frontline player.

But the Pacers...well they are so good that they don't need another big nearly as much as they need another bench scorer.



George Hill out for season makes this a great deal. George Hill getting 25-30 mpg makes this a meaningless deal, and at the cost of not getting a guy you really needed.

LA_Confidential
03-15-2012, 12:22 PM
This may not have.been the ideal trade for many of us but to all who are genuinely upset, think about it like this.

Barbosa for a 2nd>Mayo for McBob+ a 1st(George Hill).

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 12:22 PM
Granted, I don't watch enough other teams to know what TYPES of scoring Barbosa does

Let me help you. From 2010:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JenCm8JIcdY?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JenCm8JIcdY?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

From 2007:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gJxLpar0EBs?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gJxLpar0EBs?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

Great shooter, good handles, can drive through contact. Can create space for himself. He can pass but it's not his main point of interest. He likes to score and can do it in an efficient way.

xIndyFan
03-15-2012, 12:23 PM
Should have traded for Felton, eh?

no thanx on felton. i didn't see anything in the portland game that made him look like a guy the pacers had to have.

Sparhawk
03-15-2012, 12:23 PM
I'm happy that we got a speedy guy that can score as well as shoot.

Not happy that he's another undersized 2.

DC/Price has to be on the move. Price has been playing too well to be burried on the bench again.

Needs are a backup SF and backup big. Least the wait is almost over to see if there are more moves.

Justin Tyme
03-15-2012, 12:23 PM
LOL


one of their fans though they were getting George Hill back the other though Paul George. LOL Crack is a hell of a drug. If Larry Bird traded ethier one for Barbosa I would of been irate.


Barbosa is a nice get considering the price but we need to get a C aswell IMO and maybe a SF.



What are they complaining about? They are getting 7.6 cap they can use this off season to build with with a 2nd pick.

Edit: Just remember they would have the money anyway with Barboosa being an expiring.

pacer4ever
03-15-2012, 12:23 PM
Why does Bird want to help the Celtics for a poor 2nd rd pick? Like I said in another thread, throw in J Johnson and the talks can begin.

how is it helping the Celtics?? We get their 2nd rd pick along with JO that helps the Pacers. You can renounce his rights prior to the draft and we just netted a 2nd rd pick and if JO is healthy a very solid backup big which is what we really need. Along with still having the flexibility to be active in the draft and having cap space.


What are they complaining about? They are getting 7.6 cap they can use this off season to build with. Cripes.


and they got a 7.6 TPE



but most of them wanted to keep Barbosa and resign him or just let him expire. He could of netted more from another team but we got him really cheap due to the cap space we have.

BornReady
03-15-2012, 12:25 PM
Should have traded for Felton, eh?

everybody in portland hates felton right now. taken directly from a fan (a good friend of mine) who is a huge bball buff -

"cuz he's fat, can't shoot, plays teh shi!!iest D, and loses control fo the ball 75% of the time he tries to penetrate"

RWB
03-15-2012, 12:25 PM
George Hill out for season makes this a great deal. George Hill getting 25-30 mpg makes this a meaningless deal, and at the cost of not getting a guy you really needed.

I guess a few folks are at the point Darren Collison is not a point guard but rather a short shooting guard instead. If you look at it that way Barbosa is an upgrade over DC.

wintermute
03-15-2012, 12:27 PM
No, I think Toronto wanted us to pay the rest of his contract.

However, Toronto was already well under the cap before this deal, and this takes them from $52M to under $45M (maybe as low as $43M depending on Carter.) Considering that salary computations are done at the end of the year, don't they have to worry about being under the floor?

Yes, they are below the floor. Could be they're planning another move too.

Sparhawk
03-15-2012, 12:27 PM
I think the only knocks against Barbosa is his size and his D. I keep hearing his defense is putrid.

Kegboy
03-15-2012, 12:29 PM
According to ESPN's trade machine, RoboHollinger computes this trade does not affect the winning percentage of our team, but Toronto will get one less win.

:tmyk:

:sarcasm:

aaronb
03-15-2012, 12:30 PM
Excellent move!!!! This is the guy they have lacked in the back court since they foolishly dumped Bayless a few years ago.

Plus, this is a movable contract if they want to chase Mayo or Gordon in the offseason.

BillS
03-15-2012, 12:30 PM
If Kaman went to the Bulls or Heat or Sixers or Magic for "free" every single Pacers fan would be crying woe is me about how unfair it was for them to have yet another strong frontline player.

And if Kaman doesn't go anywhere and the Pacers knew it, should that mean they wait until the last minute to try to wheedle a deal, risking getting nothing done?

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that Kaman is being traded for a bag of potato chips, so already the Pacers FO is being blamed for not buying the snack pack. Until I see that happen, though, I'm going to assume that the FO couldn't GET Kaman and went with the next choice, which was to add a scorer.

5_7_Clash
03-15-2012, 12:31 PM
Maybe NO got smart and realized they could get more for Kaman? So instead of a dreamy second round pick, we actually have to put a player or two on the table? Just sayin...

LoneGranger33
03-15-2012, 12:31 PM
Dwight Howard to stay with the Magic. Time to call up the Nets and hope for a panic sale of Deron Williams.

pacer4ever
03-15-2012, 12:32 PM
Which is why when you are basically the ONLY team that has access to getting a "spare" for the playoff stretch and playoffs, you have to do it.

If the cost was a first for that rental it would still be a good deal because of what you just said.


If Kaman went to the Bulls or Heat or Sixers or Magic for "free" every single Pacers fan would be crying woe is me about how unfair it was for them to have yet another strong frontline player.

But the Pacers...well they are so good that they don't need another big nearly as much as they need another bench scorer.



George Hill out for season makes this a great deal. George Hill getting 25-30 mpg makes this a meaningless deal, and at the cost of not getting a guy you really needed.

Totally agree if Kaman for a 2nd was on the table I will be disappointed we didn't do it. Renting Kaman for a 1st isnt worth it but for a 2nd it is a no brainier. Bird and CO better have another trade up their sleeve to get a upgrade big. This trade by itself doesn't make much sense unless we can get real value for DC or Price to upgrade the big spot.


But we aren't winning a title this year regardless of any move so I guess it doesn't matter much. We aren't winning unless we rent Willams or Howard on a cheap package.

RLeWorm
03-15-2012, 12:33 PM
if u aren't excited about this trade something wrong with u. Barbosa is a killer. Fast, deadly 3 point shooter, great finisher.

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 12:33 PM
I think the only knocks against Barbosa is his size and his D. I keep hearing his defense is putrid.

He may lack size but at least he is strong. His defense is not putried but it's not good either. It could be due to motivation (ie. as long as I'm defending better than Jose, which is a really low bar, I'm fine).

Kegboy
03-15-2012, 12:34 PM
Dwight Howard to stay with the Magic. Time to call up the Nets and hope for a panic sale of Deron Williams.

They've said that they're keeping him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/38854/sources-nets-would-say-no-to-gasol-for-d-will

daschysta
03-15-2012, 12:34 PM
I'm happy that we got a speedy guy that can score as well as shoot.

Not happy that he's another undersized 2.

DC/Price has to be on the move. Price has been playing too well to be burried on the bench again.

Needs are a backup SF and backup big. Least the wait is almost over to see if there are more moves.

Dahtays minutes could see a cut and George could play more backup 3, freeing up minutes at the 2 for Barbs/Hill.

RLeWorm
03-15-2012, 12:34 PM
o and anybody remember Danny and barbosa getting into it after a game once?

Speed
03-15-2012, 12:36 PM
o and anybody remember Danny and barbosa getting into it after a game once?

Yep Danny took offense to Barbosa scoring late in a blow out. I thought it was not that big a deal, Danny didn't care for it.

McKeyFan
03-15-2012, 12:36 PM
I'm excited about this.

I think Barbosa can be a difference maker for us. We just need a really talented offensive player to open things up for the rest of the team. He can do that. It will be especially important when playoff defenses really begin to clamp down on us.

LoneGranger33
03-15-2012, 12:36 PM
They've said that they're keeping him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/38854/sources-nets-would-say-no-to-gasol-for-d-will

Well, heck, I wouldn't want Pau Gasol either. What good does he do?

BillS
03-15-2012, 12:36 PM
Let me help you. From 2010:

Biggest thing is he seems to be good at taking the quick move and shoot when he gets the ball or makes a cut. I've despaired at the amount of time so many of the guys on this team take once the ball is in their hands.

RLeWorm
03-15-2012, 12:36 PM
did anybody else get that tweet by Mike wells earlier? the one saying that this trade opens up Hill starting at pg. So would that mean Collison comes off the bench or he might get traded?

Heisenberg
03-15-2012, 12:37 PM
I assume it is, but are we sure it's THIS year's 2nd?

MillerTime
03-15-2012, 12:39 PM
I'd be much happier is we start Hill at PG now and push Collison to the bench.

Hill/DC/Price
George/Barbosa/Stephenson
Granger/Jones
West/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Lou

Our second unit is a lot better with the trade

Nuntius
03-15-2012, 12:40 PM
I assume it is, but are we sure it's THIS year's 2nd?

Good question.


Biggest thing is he seems to be good at taking the quick move and shoot when he gets the ball or makes a cut. I've despaired at the amount of time so many of the guys on this team take once the ball is in their hands.

I believe that's the result of our players thinking too much. Leandro will shoot it given the chance. He is not someone to think twice about it. Sometimes this can be awesome. Other times this can be destructive.

Sparhawk
03-15-2012, 12:42 PM
I'd love to try Hill as the starting point. defense would be vastly improved.

Just not sure about the ball movement.

TheDon
03-15-2012, 12:43 PM
we still have the 2nd rounder the Warriors right? from the brandon rush trade? if we're sending out draft picks granted it's just a 2nd rounder i'd send out ours, cause the warriors are going to be terrible down the stretch and a early 2nd round pick is just as good as a later first I'd think.

Eleazar
03-15-2012, 12:44 PM
I'd be much happier is we start Hill at PG now and push Collison to the bench.

Hill/DC/Price
George/Barbosa/Stephenson
Granger/Jones
West/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Lou

Our second unit is a lot better with the trade

Not really, this does absolutely nothing to make this team better.

Heisenberg
03-15-2012, 12:45 PM
we still have the 2nd rounder the Warriors right? from the brandon rush trade? if we're sending out draft picks granted it's just a 2nd rounder i'd send out ours, cause the warriors are going to be terrible down the stretch and a early 2nd round pick is just as good as a later first I'd think.
Warriors pick's not til 2015 I think

RWB
03-15-2012, 12:45 PM
Barbosa's stats this year in case anyone is interested.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/leandro_barbosa/game_by_game_stats.html

joeyd
03-15-2012, 12:45 PM
Head-scratcher to me, since the team has said it doesn't want to trade away it's pieces and wants to develop it's young talent. DC never had the benefit of another camp....so maybe it's foolish but I think it's too premature to give up on him. Many of his flaws are coachable. And where does this leave Lance? He already has seen a tremendous reduction in minutes.

Lance George
03-15-2012, 12:46 PM
Maybe NO got smart and realized they could get more for Kaman? So instead of a dreamy second round pick, we actually have to put a player or two on the table? Just sayin...

From reports, the exact opposite is the case: They wanted a lot for him (1st and/or good young player), and are slowly realizing that's not happening anytime soon.

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 12:48 PM
Augustine still possibly available.

DC+expiring+ Lou to the Bobcats for Augustine/Diaw

Justin Tyme
03-15-2012, 12:49 PM
how is it helping the Celtics?? We get their 2nd rd pick along with JO that helps the Pacers.


What you are forgetting is that Boston is over the LT. Taking JO's 6.2 salary saves them the LT penalty of over 6 mil. For that, the Pacers get a #50 pick. Saving them that much money is worth more than a low 2nd rd pick. Again, why help the Celtics? If they want the help, tell then top ante up.

JO's wrist is so bad he isn't going to play the rest of the season. Plus, Bird doesn't want JO ever in a Pacers uni again. They can't stand each other, and Bird isn't going to let JO retire as a Pacer. Personally, if Bird doesn't make another deal I'd do it to let JO retire as a Pacer. Foster shouldn't be the only one Bird and Herb gives some loyalty to.

DGPR
03-15-2012, 12:50 PM
With this move I wonder what they have in mind for DC now.

Sparhawk
03-15-2012, 12:54 PM
Head-scratcher to me, since the team has said it doesn't want to trade away it's pieces and wants to develop it's young talent. DC never had the benefit of another camp....so maybe it's foolish but I think it's too premature to give up on him. Many of his flaws are coachable. And where does this leave Lance? He already has seen a tremendous reduction in minutes.

& just think Lance is untouchable. Riiight.

MTM
03-15-2012, 12:54 PM
What does this mean?

11:58: Quick update on the trade of Leandro Barbosa to the Pacers: The Raptors get back veteran guard Anthony Carter as well as a second round pick. The Pacers were going to cut Carter so he’s just a throw in the Raptors can use the rest of the season.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/pbts-constantly-updated-trade-deadline-tracker/related/

PGisthefuture
03-15-2012, 12:55 PM
I'm thinking we aren't done if we are also acquiring Anthony Carter. I could honestly see DC getting moved before 3 and it will probably be for somebody we never expected. Also nobody has mentioned that this makes our roster full at 15 players doesn't it? I don't think this is the roster we will have by the end of the day... We've got like 4 or 5 guys who can play the point right now with Carter...

Magic P
03-15-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm thinking we aren't done if we are also acquiring Anthony Carter. I could honestly see DC getting moved before 3 and it will probably be for somebody we never expected. Also nobody as mentioned that this makes our roster full at 15 players doesn't it? I don't think this is the roster we will have by the end of the day... We've got like 4 or 5 guys who can play the point right now with Carter...

Well we just got about over two hours to move him, get it done Bird.

granger4mvp
03-15-2012, 12:57 PM
Good move for the Pacers I wonder if that is it for us

5_7_Clash
03-15-2012, 12:58 PM
What does this mean?

11:58: Quick update on the trade of Leandro Barbosa to the Pacers: The Raptors get back veteran guard Anthony Carter as well as a second round pick. The Pacers were going to cut Carter so hes just a throw in the Raptors can use the rest of the season.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/15/pbts-constantly-updated-trade-deadline-tracker/related/

So we took him and then gave him back?

Does that make us... Indian(a) givers? (...snicker... snicker...)

Stuckey7370
03-15-2012, 12:59 PM
Wasn't Barbosa in a scuffle with the Pacers at the end of a game last year? I thought he dunked it/shot a 3 or something while Raptors were up big as time expired. I remember early on this season Pacers players said they would never forget that.

Nevermind: I see Danny's quote in the other thread

Speed
03-15-2012, 12:59 PM
DC, Barbosa, D Jones, TH, Lou... thats a fast break waiting to happen.

Heisenberg
03-15-2012, 01:00 PM
It means Kurt Helin has no idea what he's talking about. Which is usually the case if you ever read him.

Justin Tyme
03-15-2012, 01:00 PM
Excellent move!!!! This is the guy they have lacked in the back court since they foolishly dumped Bayless a few years ago.

Plus, this is a movable contract if they want to chase Mayo or Gordon in the offseason.


Moveable contract?? Barbosa's contract expires after this season.

Sparhawk
03-15-2012, 01:01 PM
DC, Barbosa, D Jones, TH, Lou... thats a fast break waiting to happen.

'cept DC sucks on fast breaks.

Banta
03-15-2012, 01:02 PM
Perhaps some combo of DC, Hans and/or picks for Pau? Or did LA acquire Lowry to fill their PG needs?

LA_Confidential
03-15-2012, 01:02 PM
Wasn't Barbosa in a scuffle with the Pacers at the end of a game last year? I thought he dunked it/shot a 3 or something while Raptors were up big as time expired. I remember early on this season Pacers players said they would never forget that.

Let's just hope our lockerroom can accept Barbosas "kick em in the nuts" style of play. That could really come in handy come post season.

yoadknux
03-15-2012, 01:04 PM
Perhaps some combo of DC, Hans and/or picks for Pau? Or did LA acquire Lowry to fill their PG needs?
Gasol won't be traded for these players.
And salaries don't work, we no longer have that much cap space.

PGisthefuture
03-15-2012, 01:04 PM
I also don't understand why anybody would be mad about this deal. We get that scorer off the bench we've needed since last trade deadline for basically nothing. Barbosa is a former 6th man of the year and has lit us up a few times when we've played them. I really like this deal...

Justin Tyme
03-15-2012, 01:05 PM
And if Kaman doesn't go anywhere and the Pacers knew it, should that mean they wait until the last minute to try to wheedle a deal, risking getting nothing done?

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that Kaman is being traded for a bag of potato chips, so already the Pacers FO is being blamed for not buying the snack pack. Until I see that happen, though, I'm going to assume that the FO couldn't GET Kaman and went with the next choice, which was to add a scorer.

What you said makes sense, it's just Kaman was a need many felt was a higher priority.

Speed
03-15-2012, 01:05 PM
'cept DC sucks on fast breaks.

True, but he's fast, he'll be the first one down the court, but you're right, he doesn't know what to do with it, when he gets there.

Kuq_e_Zi91
03-15-2012, 01:05 PM
Doesn't make sense to me.

A bench backcourt of Collison and Barbosa will be terrible defensively. The complete antithesis of "smashmouth."

Price deserves his minutes. Lance needs his developmental minutes, whatever few he gets.

You shouldn't trade Collison now because Barbosa is an expiring and will likely be gone after this season. Kaman would be an expiring as well, and giving up DC to rent him is too much.

I like getting a scorer. I don't like spending half of our cap space and creating a logjam of undersized combo guards.

Sparhawk
03-15-2012, 01:07 PM
I also don't understand why anybody would be mad about this deal. We get that scorer off the bench we've needed since last trade deadline for basically nothing. Barbosa is a former 6th man of the year and has lit us up a few times when we've played them. I really like this deal...

I'm not made about it (was initially), but our backcourt is pretty crowded. If there are no more trades, I think most of us want to know how it will all work. Price has deserved his minutes, and he'd be joining Lance on the bench.

Just hope there is another move.

Justin Tyme
03-15-2012, 01:12 PM
Warriors pick's not til 2015 I think

Yes, it's in 2015.

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 01:14 PM
We could probably get a second rounder back if we decided not to bring Barbosa back and some team wanted to do a sign and trade, we have nothing to lose here.

PGisthefuture
03-15-2012, 01:14 PM
I'm not made about it (was initially), but our backcourt is pretty crowded. If there are no more trades, I think most of us want to know how it will all work. Price has deserved his minutes, and he'd be joining Lance on the bench.

Just hope there is another move.

I agree. One of these point guards has to go. I'm guessing we waive Carter or trade Collison and/or A.J.

90'sNBARocked
03-15-2012, 01:15 PM
Eric Smith ‏ @Eric__Smith Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Confirming the reported #Raptors / #Pacers deal ... Barbosa for a 2nd round pick. A. Carter may be in trade too (likely won't stay in IND

If Anthony likely wont stay in Indy, go to mean its part opf a bigger deal or multi team deal

90'sNBARocked
03-15-2012, 01:17 PM
If it becomes a choice between AJ or DC, I'd take AJ

If it means by their play on the court, I tend to agree with you

If it means who to keep one or the other , all things considered I keep DC, who in my opinion has much higher trade value than AJ

Sparhawk
03-15-2012, 01:17 PM
If Anthony likely wont stay in Indy, go to mean its part opf a bigger deal or multi team deal

Or waived.

I think there was a report that Carter is now not part of the deal.

Aw Heck
03-15-2012, 01:18 PM
If Anthony likely wont stay in Indy, go to mean its part opf a bigger deal or multi team deal
No one wants a 36-year-old PG on his last legs. All this means is that Toronto wanted the Pacers to take Carter off of their hands as a part of the trade. That's it.

Sookie
03-15-2012, 01:44 PM
I'm happy that we got a speedy guy that can score as well as shoot.

Not happy that he's another undersized 2.

DC/Price has to be on the move. Price has been playing too well to be burried on the bench again.

Needs are a backup SF and backup big. Least the wait is almost over to see if there are more moves.

I think DC might be gone. or we are heavily shopping him.

Last night Vogel did something REALLY strange. Usually, even if the bench unit is playing well, DC comes in crunch time. Instead of quickly bringing DC back in the game when it started getting a little closer (then the bench unit stretched it again)

DC had a bit of a grumpy face on. Which is different for him.

That said, it may be simply that AJ's stock has grown so that we can get something decent for him. He looks like a guy who can run an offense, is cheap, and expiring this season. He might look pretty good to a team that needs a point.

Pacerfan
03-15-2012, 01:49 PM
I think DC might be gone. or we are heavily shopping him.

Last night Vogel did something REALLY strange. Usually, even if the bench unit is playing well, DC comes in crunch time. Instead of quickly bringing DC back in the game when it started getting a little closer (then the bench unit stretched it again)

DC had a bit of a grumpy face on. Which is different for him.

That said, it may be simply that AJ's stock has grown so that we can get something decent for him. He looks like a guy who can run an offense, is cheap, and expiring this season. He might look pretty good to a team that needs a point.


Agreed about DC having a weird look on his face after Hill and everyone was coming to the bench after a big run. You could sense that he wasn't as happy as he should be. I'm sure it had more to do with him not playing as well as he would like but you could see it was getting to him.

Peck
03-15-2012, 02:00 PM
Hmmmmm...where is this coming from. I watch the bench intently in most games and last night I did not see a thing from D.C. to indicate that he was mad at anyone or unhappy.

When Hill hit that three he jumped as high as anyone else on the bench.

Now obviously I couldn't see his face the entire time but he was engaged with both the players & coaching staff when he was on the bench, in other words he was not off to the side sulking.

Sookie
03-15-2012, 02:08 PM
Hmmmmm...where is this coming from. I watch the bench intently in most games and last night I did not see a thing from D.C. to indicate that he was mad at anyone or unhappy.

When Hill hit that three he jumped as high as anyone else on the bench.

Now obviously I couldn't see his face the entire time but he was engaged with both the players & coaching staff when he was on the bench, in other words he was not off to the side sulking.

The camera zoomed in on his face a few times and he had a mopey look.

Could have easily just been zoning out. But I'd really only seen that out of Darren once (when he was playing well, and JOB still benched him for TJ at the end of the game.) - and I thought it was for good reason.

Still, didn't look like he was "mad." But ..certainly not happy.

5_7_Clash
03-15-2012, 02:11 PM
The camera zoomed in on his face a few times and he had a mopey look.

Could have easily just been zoning out. But I'd really only seen that out of Darren once (when he was playing well, and JOB still benched him for TJ at the end of the game.) - and I thought it was for good reason.

Still, didn't look like he was "mad." But ..certainly not happy.

Doesn't he always have a mopey look? I've always thought you don't get much from DC in the way of facial expressions.

Unclebuck
03-15-2012, 02:14 PM
I think it is impossible to judge a player by a 2 second clip of their face as they sit on the bench. Unfair and unreliable. You have no idea what he was doing just before and just after the camera focused on him.

JB24
03-15-2012, 02:16 PM
If we're going by camera clips (seriously?) then he was clearly delighted for Hill when he got the standing ovation at the end of the game and came back to the bench.

Sookie
03-15-2012, 02:18 PM
I think it is impossible to judge a player by a 2 second clip of their face as they sit on the bench. Unfair and unreliable. You have no idea what he was doing just before and just after the camera focused on him.

True, just saying I saw it, and a few others did too.

I thought the stranger action was Vogel's. In the past, even if AJ was outplaying DC, it was rare that DC wouldn't come back in for him.

Vogel usually has a lot of trust in him. (That time period when AJ missed a few shots and Philly went on a tiny run, DC would have come back in.)

I assumed it was because of defense, and AJ was outplaying DC. But it could have very easily been Larry going "Um..if you can help it, we'd like to keep DC out tonight."

It's all speculation though. I'm just saying, if we're trading one of the two. At this point, it probably makes sense that we'd be trading DC, because we could get more for him, perhaps opening the door for Hill to start (I think it's a bad call) ect..and the actions of the coach last night, could (POSSIBLY, MAYBE..HENCE I'M SPECULATING HERE AND SAYING THIS IS POSSIBLE.) be construed as trying to make sure he doesn't get hurt in case of a trade.

Heisenberg
03-15-2012, 02:18 PM
We're drawing conclusions from players' faces now?

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 02:28 PM
Oh come on guys, she is not the first person on this board to speculate on a player's mental state based off of almost nothing. I've never seen anyone get so worked up about it before though. Are folks suddenly becoming sentimental about DC?

dal9
03-15-2012, 02:32 PM
Why is everyone saying GHill will start over DC now? Just speculation / hope or what?

Bench backcourt of GHill / Barbosa seems still OK, and better balanced defensively?

Sookie
03-15-2012, 02:32 PM
Oh come on guys, she is not the first person on this board to speculate on a player's mental state based off of almost nothing. I've never seen anyone get so worked up about it before though. Are folks suddenly becoming sentimental about DC?

I thought I was the only one who was a bit sentimental about DC. (He's so tiny..I can't help but stick up for him..I'm all.."HEY pick on someone your own size" :laugh:)

Seriously, I was just repeating it because I saw it and others have mentioned it, in this thread.

It's all speculation. My point was between the two AJ/DC, based on last night's game from a few factors..I'd say they are probably looking more to trade DC.

BornReady
03-15-2012, 02:44 PM
Mike Wells
Also In Indiana Pacers
The Pacers did NOT acquire Anthony Carter as part of the deal that sent Leandro Barbosa to Indiana for a second round pick. The Pacers still have about $7 million in cap space and a roster spot available with about 20 minutes remaining before the trade deadline ends.

CJ Jones
03-15-2012, 03:22 PM
Yep Danny took offense to Barbosa scoring late in a blow out. I thought it was not that big a deal, Danny didn't care for it.


Wasn't Barbosa in a scuffle with the Pacers at the end of a game last year? I thought he dunked it/shot a 3 or something while Raptors were up big as time expired. I remember early on this season Pacers players said they would never forget that.

Nevermind: I see Danny's quote in the other thread

I have no problem with what Barbosa did. It was just retaliation for the amateur move DC pulled the game before.

It Kaman was off the table, this is a good deal.

MiaDragon
03-15-2012, 03:26 PM
With an off day today any chance we see our new toy in action against the Knicks on Friday?

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 03:33 PM
Did anyone else notice that Vogel called Collison one of the premier point guards in the league last night after the Sixers game?

ECKrueger
03-15-2012, 03:36 PM
Mike Wells
Also In Indiana Pacers

Barbosa will NOT be with the Pacers in New York on Friday. He's not expected to join the team until Sunday at the earliest because he's got to go from Memphis back to Toronto to get his things and still take his physical.

Mike Wells
Also In Indiana Pacers

Pacers president Larry Bird said he ZERO interest in doing any deals that required giving up a first round pick. "I don't do first round picks," he said. Bird also said he believes Darren Collison will be fine and he doesn't consider this as a wakeup call for DC.

http://www.sulia.com/channel/basketball/f/990dbfd8-b181-47d3-aeac-aa43a0a584f1/?source=twitter

tora tora
03-15-2012, 03:38 PM
So where does this trade leave AJ?

Sookie
03-15-2012, 03:41 PM
So where does this trade leave AJ?

LOl...probably another undeserved benching.

edit: heh. Kobe's pissed.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 03:41 PM
So where does this trade leave AJ?

Demoted during a good stretch of play, par for the course for his career really.

Jessen
03-15-2012, 03:43 PM
We could probably get a second rounder back if we decided not to bring Barbosa back and some team wanted to do a sign and trade, we have nothing to lose here.

Exactly. This is a win, win assuming Kaman was out of reach(aka they wanted a starter and a pick). And if it turns out that he somehow negatively affects our bench squad, then I'm sure Vogel will adjust. He's an additional option and could really help strengthen our, at times, weak second unit. I don't think this move improves us a whole lot, but it certainly doesn't harm us.

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 03:44 PM
Did anyone else notice that Vogel called Collison one of the premier point guards in the league last night after the Sixers game?

I really hope that was green.

90'sNBARocked
03-15-2012, 03:53 PM
No one wants a 36-year-old PG on his last legs. All this means is that Toronto wanted the Pacers to take Carter off of their hands as a part of the trade. That's it.

So , it means Toronto traded Anthony Carter and Barbosa to the Pacers for a 2nd round pick. Then we released Carter and they resigned him?

I am confused, but who cares didnt want Carter anyway

Sookie
03-15-2012, 03:55 PM
I really hope that was green.

Nope, he did. (There's a quote on a Pacers blog) Vogel likes DC more than many here. :laugh:

Anthem
03-15-2012, 03:57 PM
So... deadline has passed, right? This is it?

presto123
03-15-2012, 03:59 PM
We've had inconsistent scoring all year from EVERYBODY and we add a scorer to the team. How does this not make us better for all of you saying that?

Mourning
03-15-2012, 03:59 PM
While I couldn't get on this site, probably due to the 350+ guests making that impossible (thx for that btw non-members), I went to Eight Points, Nine Seconds and they argued that maybe this trade moves not DC, but mainly Jones from his position as backup SF. Those minutes would then go to Paul George, while Barbosa fills in the backup backcourt with Hill. Sounds pretty logical to me. Both Hill and Barbosa are more SG's then PG's, but they can pass the ball decently and Barbosa would add extra (needed) offense from the bench, while Hill can take on the toughest defensive assignment in the backcourt, while either of them can score aswell. If the TO's can be kept low this could be a very nice move, though I feel sorry for Jones, who I feel has played quite nicely this season for the most part anyway. I see Price losing minutes too btw, but mainly Dahntay.

Either way, maybe Collison get demoted to backup at PG, but I think pairing him with Barbosa is a lot less logical then paring Hill with Barbosa, but that's just my me maybe.

And we probably get to see George play much more minutes at SF something a lot of people here have wanted since we drafted him.

MiaDragon
03-15-2012, 04:03 PM
So where does this trade leave AJ?

I hope Frank use both to his advantage, running DC when we need points and AJ when we need D.

Strummer
03-15-2012, 04:04 PM
I'm happy with the Barbosa pickup. There were so many times early in the season when we had no scorer on the floor. That should happen less now.

Barbosa and Hill seem like the same kind of player. That means we can always have one of them on the floor (if we want). That makes for a more consistent offense.

Stoked to see him play for us. I just hope everyone gives him a chance to fit in. A lot of people were too quick to judge Lou when he first got here.

Doddage
03-15-2012, 04:05 PM
I LOVE that Bird doesn't trade 1sts. It's nice to have a GM that recognizes the value of picks.

Hicks
03-15-2012, 04:06 PM
I'm happy with this move. I didn't expect any moves, but I would have liked to have seen an acquisition like this one as well as one for another center. I'll settle for one out of two.

Like others have said, this clears the path for starting Hill at the one, which I fully support.

I'm assuming we won't completely bench DC, so I feel a little bad for AJ, but otherwise I'm happy and feel like we just got better. Deeper, more versatile, and an upgrade at both PG spots (unless you like AJ more tha DC, which I'm well aware that many if you do) if Hill does start.

Last night reminded me of a playoff game, and I think when they arrive you'll see the same level of effort that was on display last night and against the Bulls last year.

Only this time, we're coming in with this roster:

Hill/Collison/Price
George/Barbosa/Stephenson
Granger/Jones
West/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Amundson/Foster

I can't friggin' wait to see what they can do.

Go Pacers!!

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 04:09 PM
If anyone else concerned about the fact that statistically Hill and the team just haven't performed very well when he is the point guard? He's been much better playing off the ball next to AJ or DC, perhaps that would change if he was a starter but it does concern me a bit.

pacer4ever
03-15-2012, 04:11 PM
If anyone else concerned about the fact that statistically Hill and the team just haven't performed very well when he is the point guard? He's been much better playing off the ball next to AJ or DC, perhaps that would change if he was a starter but it does concern me a bit.

That is because Hill isnt a pg I have been preaching this since we traded for him. He is a SG who can handle the ball well but he is not a pg and never has been at least at this level.

pacer4ever
03-15-2012, 04:12 PM
I LOVE that Bird doesn't trade 1sts. It's nice to have a GM that recognizes the value of picks.

:confused: he traded one last year and was with the team when we traded our 1st for AL :puke:

Hicks
03-15-2012, 04:14 PM
So I guess we'll see Barbosa make his Pacer debut Tuesday vs the Clippers? Looking forward to it.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 04:14 PM
That is because Hill isnt a pg I have been preaching this since we traded for him. He is a SG who can handle the ball well but he is not a pg and never has been at least at this level.

P4E, I don't disagree with you at all. Was just wondering who else was on the same page I was.

Hicks
03-15-2012, 04:17 PM
What specifically are people worried about losing from DC's game by supplanting him with Hill? Neither one of them is a point guard, Hill is no worse, but he's the better defender and all-around player.

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 04:21 PM
What specifically are people worried about losing from DC's game by supplanting him with Hill? Neither one of them is a point guard, Hill is no worse, but he's the better defender and all-around player.


David West's "scoring punch"? :laugh:

Ace E.Anderson
03-15-2012, 04:27 PM
If anyone else concerned about the fact that statistically Hill and the team just haven't performed very well when he is the point guard? He's been much better playing off the ball next to AJ or DC, perhaps that would change if he was a starter but it does concern me a bit.

I actually think the "true PG" that many of us want, is rare in the league today. Outside of Rondo, CP3, D-Will, and Nash, there aren't many elite pass first, PG's today. Nowadays most starters at the point are individuals who can handle the ball, run a pick and roll, penetrate the basket, etc. I think Hill is able to do all of these things, while also being able to bring pretty good defense as well as shot making to the starting unit.

That's clearly an upgrade to anything that DC brings as a starter, and the trade for Barbosa gives us the added scoring punch off the bench that we previously would have lacked if Hill starts (which has been stated a million times).

DC going to the bench also allows him to look for his shot a little bit more.

CableKC
03-15-2012, 04:27 PM
Im okay with this move....cuz it does address a need to add some scoring depth to the Wing rotation ( although I would have preferred to get a Scoring SF )....but I think the greater need is depth in the Frontcourt. You have to wonder what the Hornets were asking for to get Kaman.

Doddage
03-15-2012, 04:31 PM
:confused: he traded one last year and was with the team when we traded our 1st for AL :puke:
Difference is for the Hill trade he traded it during the draft when we had an idea of who was available at the time.

And we don't know if he was responsible for the Harrington trade. Could have been DW.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 04:32 PM
What specifically are people worried about losing from DC's game by supplanting him with Hill? Neither one of them is a point guard, Hill is no worse, but he's the better defender and all-around player.

Nothing specifically, I'm just saying Hill struggles playing point guard. He has not been as effective when forced to run the offense.

ilive4sports
03-15-2012, 04:33 PM
Didn't Hill start in place for an injured Tony Parker for San Antonio last year?

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 04:34 PM
I think some of you guys are missing my point, my concerns about Hill at the 1 have nothing to do with wanting a "pure point guard" (I mean I do want one, but Collison isn't one). My concerns are simply that while Collison does OK at the point guard position, Hill has struggled all year when asked to play that role offensively. He has been at his best off the ball. Just like he was last night against Philly for example.

McKeyFan
03-15-2012, 04:34 PM
I think it is impossible to judge a player by a 2 second clip of their face as they sit on the bench. Unfair and unreliable. You have no idea what he was doing just before and just after the camera focused on him.
Taco Bell relief?

Granville Fleming
03-15-2012, 04:36 PM
Barbosa > A.J.


Nuff said.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 04:36 PM
I guess my point is, is George Hill's highest and best use as a point guard? I'd have to say no. He is best as a shooting guard. Same goes for Barbosa. Now Collison is really just a two guard in a 1 guard's body.

Which leads me to one specific guy, who IMO actually creates the best offense for West and Hansbrough and heck most of the players on the team. AJ.

Sookie
03-15-2012, 04:38 PM
What specifically are people worried about losing from DC's game by supplanting him with Hill? Neither one of them is a point guard, Hill is no worse, but he's the better defender and all-around player.

As Trader said, I'm worried about Hill's game.

As a starter, he's the only ball handler on the floor, and he's now looking to create the offense, and score, and defend. He's struggled in that role. And he's flourished next to AJ.

Look at his production at point vs shooting guard, it's drastically different.

Look, no one is saying DC is a pure point guard. The purest point guard we've got has probably just taken another undeserved seat on the bench. But he's (DC) a better point guard than Hill. And he's too small to play shooting guard (where he probably would be better, if he was taller. Whereas Hill can play shooting guard, and plays significantly better at that position.

Sandman21
03-15-2012, 04:40 PM
Danny Granger ‏ @dgranger33
Welcoming my new teammate Leandro Barbosa!! All past transgressions are now forgiven!!
:laugh:

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 04:42 PM
Why are we so scared to start Price at point guard? He's the best passer of the group, he's big enough to defend. Is it just because he was a second round pick?

Ace E.Anderson
03-15-2012, 04:44 PM
Why are we so scared to start Price at point guard? He's the best passer of the group, he's big enough to defend. Is it just because he was a second round pick?

I think in Bird's eyes, this would eliminate the reason that Barbosa was brought here...a scoring 2-guard off the bench that gives George Hill a chance to start.

Of course this is all speculation that the change in the starting lineup is going to take place

Lance George
03-15-2012, 04:50 PM
Why are we so scared to start Price at point guard? He's the best passer of the group, he's big enough to defend. Is it just because he was a second round pick?

Atrocious .328 from the field and .278 from downtown, combined with both a lower assist rate and a higher turnover rate than Collison.

Being a better passer (allegedly) can't trump the huge negatives he brings.

Trader Joe
03-15-2012, 04:52 PM
We will have to see, perhaps Hill will thrive as the 1 with the starters. I do not know, I just know that as the 1 with the bench, he struggled a lot. Hopefully, it works out.

ksuttonjr76
03-15-2012, 04:55 PM
As Trader said, I'm worried about Hill's game.

As a starter, he's the only ball handler on the floor, and he's now looking to create the offense, and score, and defend. He's struggled in that role. And he's flourished next to AJ.

Look at his production at point vs shooting guard, it's drastically different.

Look, no one is saying DC is a pure point guard. The purest point guard we've got has probably just taken another undeserved seat on the bench. But he's (DC) a better point guard than Hill. And he's too small to play shooting guard (where he probably would be better, if he was taller. Whereas Hill can play shooting guard, and plays significantly better at that position.

But he played the PG spot for the Spurs though, so it's not like it's something totally new for him. HOWEVER, Vogel seems to be allowing Paul George to handle the ball a lot more often in the half-court set. From what I seen and read thus far, Indiana doesn't have overly complex offensive sets, so we don't need a "pure" PG for what we run. George Hill maybe the main ballhandler when inbounding the ball and bringing the ball upcourt, BUT I do believe that Paul George will initiate the offense, since he's actually the best (and growing) off dribble player we have. Basically, Vogel may start running a backcourt offense similar to the Spurs when Hill and Giniboli were on the floor together.

billbradley
03-15-2012, 04:56 PM
Am I the only one that thinks DC will still start, but play less minutes with Brabosa backing up DC and Hill?

vnzla81
03-15-2012, 04:58 PM
Am I the only one that thinks DC will still start, but play less minutes with Brabosa backing up DC and Hill?

Not a bad idea, start DC, give him 5minutes and then sit him for the rest of the game :laugh:

Hicks
03-15-2012, 04:59 PM
Nothing specifically, I'm just saying Hill struggles playing point guard. He has not been as effective when forced to run the offense.

I say give him an extended chance now with this team. I predict at worst it will not hurt us any more than having DC. That's speaking only on one side of the ball, of course. It is unquestionably an improvement on defense.