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View Full Version : Do you wish Reggie would stay on the IR?



Hicks
11-15-2004, 11:13 AM
I've been thinking about this more and more, and you know what, I wish Reggie would stay on the bench. I think we're better off with Jack starting and Fred backing him up. I think when Reggie comes back, Rick's going to hand him the starting role, and I'm afraid it's really going to hurt the team. Reggie brings a lot less to the table than Stephen does now, and by starting he makes Jack have to take Fred's role, forcing a hell of a good backup SG to the bench.

I think this will make us a noticably worse team. Am I the only one who feels this way, and worries about this?

I might even go so far to say that with our SGs being Jack/Fred, we're a contender, but if it's Reggie/Jack, we may not.

ABADays
11-15-2004, 11:35 AM
Uhhh no.

rabid
11-15-2004, 11:38 AM
Never happen. The best to hope for is that Reggie starts, but only in a ceremonial sense - 1st man out 5 or so minutes into the first quarter, with a total of 20-25 min. per game. Rick has said that Reggie will start as long as he is a Pacer, and I believe him.

Hicks
11-15-2004, 11:44 AM
I know it will never happen. I'm asking for everyone to say how they feel about it, and if they think that's how it SHOULD be. I think we can all agree it's never going to happen.

I think it should; I think it holds down our SG spot.

ABADays
11-15-2004, 11:46 AM
He hasn't even played yet. How can anyone know if he would hold down anything?

Hicks
11-15-2004, 11:54 AM
Because I've sort of seen him play before, and he isn't exactly part of the "he keeps getting better every year" youth movement we have going ;)

At best he'll average 12ppg, give us a few assists and a couple rebounds. Jackson would give us 15-18ppg, and at worst as many assists and likely a few more rebounds than Reggie. And unlike Reggie, he doesn't pass up open shots he should take (quite the opposite sometimes :laugh: ). He also can create his own shot, and drive to the basket, and play better D.

ChicagoJ
11-15-2004, 12:06 PM
I don't think it matters. I think Rick will pull a good plan out of his hat.

We'll know fairly early each night if Reggie's going to be able to contribute. If so, he'll probably get 20 or so minutes and score a dozen or so points.

If not, he'll get five or six minutes and Fred will play.

What won't happen, with Jackson here, is a repeat of last season in which Reggie automatically got 24 MPG or so just because Rick wasn't comfortable playing Fred any more than 20-24 mpg, either.

Manuel
11-15-2004, 12:07 PM
At best he'll average 12ppg, give us a few assists and a couple rebounds. Jackson would give us 15-18ppg, and at worst as many assists and likely a few more rebounds than Reggie. And unlike Reggie, he doesn't pass up open shots he should take (quite the opposite sometimes :laugh: ). He also can create his own shot, and drive to the basket, and play better D.

Well, when you put it like that...it's hard to make a case for Reggie to start.

Reggie carried this franchise for a long time. He had the team in the playoffs almost every year. He gave us many exciting moments. Let him start his last year.;)

ABADays
11-15-2004, 12:10 PM
How about keeping Bender on the IR? Those stats you quoted would be as good if not better than JB's. Plus, at least Reggie would be reliable.

rabid
11-15-2004, 12:14 PM
If Reggie will SHOOT THE BALL during the minutes he has he can still be very, very effective on this team, esp. if his minutes stay down to about 20 or so...

Bball
11-15-2004, 12:33 PM
Well, the Reggie injury has been a blessing in disguise (altho the other injuries haven't been).

For anybody wondering if this team 'needed' Reggie Miller the answer is obvious. For anybody wondering what this team would look like without Reggie Miller the answer is obvious.

For reasons of loyalty, homesmanship, or faith some will never give up on Reggie and always expect him to start and also hit the big shot at the end of the game. But if he'd stop a couple of things on the defensive end or take a couple of small shots here and there we might not need the 'big' shot at the end.

Sooo I think Reggie's value to this team is much greater on the bench as a motivating factor to the younger players. Will he hurt us when he comes back? I'm sure Carlisle will limit that somewhat but I can't see how Reggie helps coming back and starting.

-Bball

Hicks
11-15-2004, 12:37 PM
How about keeping Bender on the IR? Those stats you quoted would be as good if not better than JB's. Plus, at least Reggie would be reliable.

True, but unless you expect Reggie to play the role of backup SF/P (most minutes at 4) :laugh: It's not gonna work too well.

indygeezer
11-15-2004, 12:50 PM
When RM comes back it will be off the bench. In a limited role, to get his "conditioning" back. He will be back into the starting rotation sometime thereafter. He IS the starter until he steps aside.
Should he be? IMO, probably. But that is just an oldtimer sticking up for the vet (remember I'm the original WIN NOW guy).

ChicagoJ
11-15-2004, 12:51 PM
How about keeping Bender on the IR? Those stats you quoted would be as good if not better than JB's. Plus, at least Reggie would be reliable.

True, but unless you expect Reggie to play the role of backup SF/P (most minutes at 4) :laugh: It's not gonna work too well.

<Random thought>Hey, that's what Magic Johnson was doing at about the same age... Why not? </Random thought>

beast23
11-15-2004, 12:53 PM
The complaints always come back around to wanting Reggie to shoot the ball more.

That is also the only realy complaint I've had of Reggie.

Reggie didn't shoot as much last season, but his percentages and scoring efficiency (points per FG taken) were as good as ever.

Miller stated he was looking forward to being more aggressive this season. And in his short stint before the injury, his FTs were up so I'm guessing that he was pursuing that agenda.

Regardless of how many minutes he plays, if you are into statistics, and there are a number of statistics mentioned above, Reggie remains on the the most efficient shooters in the league, and NBA history.

When he gets back, I really don't care who starts. If you look at last season, it took injuries to Kenny and AJ for Tinsley to finally get a shot at starting.

Once he started, they didn't relegate him to the bench when Kenny and AJ were of the IR.

It is quite possible that Reggie will also play his way back off the bench. But just like returning from his ankle injury, Reggie won't come off of IR until he is "ready" to play.

But with his ability to hit the perimeter jumper, to say that he should stay on the bench. That's just ludicrous.

Alabama-Redneck
11-15-2004, 01:06 PM
Possible rotation in minutes from start of game.

PG-Tinsley 1-9, Johnson 10-17, Tinsley 18-24

SG-Miller 1-5, Jackson 6-10, FJones 11-17, Miller 18-24

SF-Artest 1-9, Jackson 10-17, Artest 18-24

PF-O'Neal 1-9, Bender 10-17, O'Neal 18-24

C-Foster 1-6, Pollard 7-12, Croshere 13-18, Foster 19-24

The 2nd half could be similar with game adjustments made. Croshere could also play some PF and Harrison some C.

This is a list of players and 1st half minutes.

Miller-12
Jackson-13
F. Jones-7
Tinsley-16
Johnson-8
Artest-16
O'Neal-16
Bender-8
Foster-12
Pollard-6
Croshere-6

This is just a possibility. ;) :cool:

Roy Munson
11-15-2004, 01:23 PM
The complaints always come back around to wanting Reggie to shoot the ball more.

That is also the only realy complaint I've had of Reggie.

Reggie didn't shoot as much last season, but his percentages and scoring efficiency (points per FG taken) were as good as ever.



He doesn't shoot much because he has a real hard time getting open. And once the playoffs start and the defensive intensity picks up, he'll NEVER get open.

I say let him play the first six minutes of each half, then maybe spot minutes near the end of the game if that is what we need.

It's all speculative anyway because there are going to be more injuries and missed games throughout the season. The lineup is going to be a juggling act all season. I don't think we'll ever be looking at a "permanent" set lineup or rotation.

Kegboy
11-15-2004, 02:51 PM
For the record, Reggie has stated that he knows he's been too deferential the last two years and will look to score more.

For the most part, Steve and Fred have played well (minus the stinker against LA, of course). However, what's our biggest problem so far this year according to Rick? Turnovers. As in 2nd-to-last in the league. And both of them have been a big part of that.

Reggie's become one of those "wily veterans" where stats don't tell the whole story where it comes to his game. But, if you want stats, I seem to remember that he was one of the league leaders in assists-to-turnovers last year. In fact, looking at the stats from last year, he, AJ, and Jeff had the least turnovers of the rotation players.

The bottom line is, Reggie is the smartest player we have, period. Rick didn't hand him the starting spot in the offseason out of loyalty, coaches love to have BBall IQ out on the floor. And, believe it or not, he's still got ability to go along with that intelligence. He's not Mark Jackson limping around 4 years after his body left him. Be thankful for that.
---
Asked afterward if O'Neal's absence contributed to Charlotte's win, Knight bristled.

"What about Primoz? They didn't have Shaq, but we didn't have Primoz," he said.

Charcoal Filtered
11-15-2004, 04:08 PM
Please Reg, stay on the bench!

Everyone is worried about the defensive dropoff if we let Artest go. How about the defensive letdown from Jack/Freddie to Reg?

Have loved the contributions of the guy, but it is time to pass the torch.

Lord Helmet
11-15-2004, 05:02 PM
Start Reggie.We can just limit his minutes.He said he will look to shoot more and I believe if he does he can still make baskets.

Bball
11-15-2004, 07:01 PM
Start Reggie.We can just limit his minutes.He said he will look to shoot more and I believe if he does he can still make baskets.

Yes but... does it do the Pacers any good for Reggie to score if he gives up just as many (or more) on the other end of the court? Or possibly even causes other guys, out of position, to foul because Reggie easily lost his man...

-Bball

Sollozzo
11-15-2004, 07:14 PM
I don't think anyone will deny the fact that Reggie is the smartest player we have and knows the game better than any of the young guys. That being said, just because you know the game better than guys doesnt mean you can play the game at a high level. I mean guys like Bird and Magic probably know the game better than anyone in the league, but they couldn't compete at the level anymore.

Knowing the game doesn't make up for the fact that he is 39 years old and is a shell of what he once was.

Knowing the game doesn't make up for the fact that there are two players that play his position that are clearly better than him at this point in time.

Knowing the game doesnt make up for the fact that you routinely get burnt by your man on defense.

It's just wrong for Reggie to start when we have a player that is so clearly better at this point in time like Sjax. That being said, Fred also deserves a higher roster spot than Reggie I think.

Look at the good team we have. Look at all of these young guys we have. Watching this team this year, I haven't missed Reggie Miller at all. I've moved on. You don't win championships by living in the past.

You have to ask yourself this question. If Reggie was just your average Joe with his current game, would you honestly want him playing over Sjax and Fred?

ABADays
11-15-2004, 07:35 PM
I want to be sure to know where to find this thread in April. Either I'm going to get shreadded or I'm gonna have one hell of a good time.

beast23
11-15-2004, 08:08 PM
I want to be sure to know where to find this thread in April. Either I'm going to get shreadded or I'm gonna have one hell of a good time.I'm with you fellow old-timer.

There are a number of folks who simply don't give Reggie his due defensively. Against MOST men that he is assigned to guard, he keeps his man in front of him.

Those that he is not able to adequately guard, a lot of folks around the league also have trouble guarding.

A "shell of his former self". Another ludicrous statement. Folks look at the fact that Reggie scored 18 PPG or more for years, and think that if he is not at that level, he's simply not much use any more.

There is no consideration given to the fact that he is no longer the primary option, nor most times even the 2nd option, but instead is on the floor to facilitate the scoring of others.

I think it time we opened our eyes a little and actually "studied" the games being played.

I believe SJax is a great addition to the team. And, there is no doubt that Freddie has already become a viable part of our efforts at both ends of the floor.

But folks, open your eyes. These guys are but two more weapons in the arsenal to COMPLEMENT Reggie, not REPLACE him... at least not yet.

I look forward to the time that we have all our horses healthy. And I'll bet Rick is chomping at the bit knowing that he doesn't have to worry about minutes anymore. He will just be able to mix and match his players to fit any situation that develops.

Kegboy
11-15-2004, 10:22 PM
People on here have always had terribly short memories. Their lasting image of Reggie is him getting burned by Rip in the ECF (of course, they also forget Rip burned Ron, as well.) I don't remember anyone complaining about the job he did on Eddie Jones or Jiri Welsch.

Reg has always been a better defender than people give him credit for. Yes, his skills have degraded, but it's not like he's Tinsley two years ago, or anything. :shudder:
---
Asked afterward if O'Neal's absence contributed to Charlotte's win, Knight bristled.

"What about Primoz? They didn't have Shaq, but we didn't have Primoz," he said.

Smokin420
11-15-2004, 10:40 PM
Well with Stephen Jackson as your avatar. I am assuming your predisposed to dislike Reggie coming back.

Please explain how the deadliest long range shooter in NBA history is not beneficial in your lineup. I am convinced you used to be a Bull fan.

Kegboy
11-15-2004, 10:52 PM
Well with Stephen Jackson as your avatar. I am assuming your predisposed to dislike Reggie coming back.

Please explain how the deadliest long range shooter in NBA history is not beneficial in your lineup. I am convinced you used to be a Bull fan.

:lmao:
---
Asked afterward if O'Neal's absence contributed to Charlotte's win, Knight bristled.

"What about Primoz? They didn't have Shaq, but we didn't have Primoz," he said.

Hicks
11-15-2004, 11:42 PM
Well with Stephen Jackson as your avatar. I am assuming your predisposed to dislike Reggie coming back.

Please explain how the deadliest long range shooter in NBA history is not beneficial in your lineup. I am convinced you used to be a Bull fan.

:lol2: Wow that's ignorant.

Anthem
11-15-2004, 11:50 PM
There ought to be a law that you have to lurk a while before you're allowed to comment on other posters.

Gee, hicks, if avatars say that much about a person I wonder what your "two girls" avatar said about you.

Hicks
11-16-2004, 12:00 AM
It said that I was a hot lesbian, with a predisposition to hate all men, and clearly a Celtics fan in the 60s. ;) :D

Anthem
11-16-2004, 12:08 AM
:laugh: