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Trader Joe
03-13-2012, 09:56 AM
Has this been discussed on here at all? Because holy crap it is one of the biggest red flags this team has right now.

Lance George
03-13-2012, 10:09 AM
All it says to me is that the Eastern Conference teams we've faced have been tougher than our Western Conference opponents. That's what playing Chicago twice and Miami thrice will do to you.

naptownmenace
03-13-2012, 10:32 AM
All it says to me is that the Eastern Conference teams we've faced have been tougher than our Western Conference opponents. That's what playing Chicago twice and Miami thrice will do to you.

Yes. You can throw Orlando and Atlanta in there too. We've played them 3 times as well. The East has been better than the West this season.

With that said, the Pacers aren't on the level of teams like Chicago, Miami, and Orlando so if that was the point of this thread... point taken. That shouldn't be a huge surprise. Coming into the season most of use expected them to be a 4-6 seed in the East which is exactly what they are.

Trader Joe
03-13-2012, 10:38 AM
Great, so what you guys are saying is we can't consistently beat any of the top teams in the East...got it. Isn't that sort of my point? Just saying "Oh, we've played Chicago, Miami, Orlando, and Atlanta multiple times" doesn't really make it any better. It just proves that we aren't even close to being where we need to be yet.

Ace E.Anderson
03-13-2012, 11:03 AM
Great, so what you guys are saying is we can't consistently beat any of the top teams in the East...got it. Isn't that sort of my point? Just saying "Oh, we've played Chicago, Miami, Orlando, and Atlanta multiple times" doesn't really make it any better. It just proves that we aren't even close to being where we need to be yet.

I feel like a lot of us are trying to rationalize our recent struggles with "well we all expected the pacers to be a 5-6th seed this year" which may be true. BUT, i don't think any of us expected us to be a 5-6th seed that is going to get swept in the first round if we continue to play the way we've been playing.....

Brad8888
03-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Great, so what you guys are saying is we can't consistently beat any of the top teams in the East...got it. Isn't that sort of my point? Just saying "Oh, we've played Chicago, Miami, Orlando, and Atlanta multiple times" doesn't really make it any better. It just proves that we aren't even close to being where we need to be yet.

Things are very bad now, aren't they? :shudder:

I would much rather have a crappy coaching staff, players who have no talent and are always chucking 3's, with only the vets being played despite the younger players being better.

Or, better yet, I would love to have the more talented players who seemingly never had a call go their way, demanded trades behind the scenes or in a very public way while spitting in the collective faces of the fans who supported them, and had a propensity to engage fans in a hostile way on occasion both inside the arena and at local nightspots, with a few of those incidents resulting in Federal indictments which magically disappeared basically without penalty.

Once upon a time there was a tavern
Where we used to raise a glass or two
Remember how we laughed away the hours
And think of all the great things we would do

Chorus:

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way
La la la la la la
La la la la la la

Then the busy years went rushing by us
We lost our starry notions on the way
If by chance I'd see you in the tavern
We'd smile at one another and we'd say

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
Those were the days
Oh, yes, those were the days
La la la la la la
La la la la la la


Oh, BTW...green.

imbtyler
03-13-2012, 11:21 AM
We're obviously going to have some issues in the East. I hate to break the news, but if you haven't noticed already, 2012 is not "Our Year". We're one step closer, and we could even show a lot of people that our year is coming, but we're not going to be a game-changing, name-making playoff team this year. With two days left before the deadline, I've lost faith that Bird is going to make any "big" moves. Therefore, I think we'll stay the same team through the remainder of the season, and postseason.

Next year, however, when we use free agency to boost the team to the point it needs to be (one or two proper FA signings would do the trick), you can expect that the Pacers aren't going to be the same team as last year. With new additions (through draft, trades, and FA), as well as having a full and proper off-season of practice and training camps, this team will be able to mesh and grow together. What we're missing is the companionship found in working as a team.

I know I said this last season, but it looks like next year could really be our year. I just don't want to have to wait until November to start seeing a full, new, contending Pacers team on the court.

Lance George
03-13-2012, 11:48 AM
Great, so what you guys are saying is we can't consistently beat any of the top teams in the East...got it. Isn't that sort of my point? Just saying "Oh, we've played Chicago, Miami, Orlando, and Atlanta multiple times" doesn't really make it any better. It just proves that we aren't even close to being where we need to be yet.

We shouldn't consistently beat the top teams in the East, as we're not a top team ourselves. I wasn't aware there were still people who haven't accepted that reality.

We're at the very bottom of the the top-third in the East, and the very top of the bottom-half of playoff teams. Above average, yes, but nowhere near good enough to consistently beat other good teams.

Chicago and Miami are heads-and-shoulders above everyone else, and we've went a respectable 2-4 against them (and were thisclose to going a promising 3-3).

Orlando's had our number, without question. Why that is, I don't know. Still, regular season match-ups haven't proven to be anywhere near reliable indicators of how playoff series will go.

We've only played the Sixers once, in Philly, and without Danny. Philly should've won that game, and they did.

We're on the same level as Atlanta (only .005 separates our records), and, while it'd be nice to have the regular season series advantage, that they've managed to eek it out (they're +3 in points in our three-game series) isn't all that concerning.

We've won two of our three games against Boston, who's only a small step back of the Philly/Indy/Atlanta bunch in the middle of the East playoff pack.

Add it all up, and the only thing that's concerning is how Orlando's handled us, and that team may be radically different any day now.

Trader Joe
03-13-2012, 11:51 AM
Things are very bad now, aren't they? :shudder:

I would much rather have a crappy coaching staff, players who have no talent and are always chucking 3's, with only the vets being played despite the younger players being better.

Or, better yet, I would love to have the more talented players who seemingly never had a call go their way, demanded trades behind the scenes or in a very public way while spitting in the collective faces of the fans who supported them, and had a propensity to engage fans in a hostile way on occasion both inside the arena and at local nightspots, with a few of those incidents resulting in Federal indictments which magically disappeared basically without penalty.

Once upon a time there was a tavern
Where we used to raise a glass or two
Remember how we laughed away the hours
And think of all the great things we would do

Chorus:

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way
La la la la la la
La la la la la la

Then the busy years went rushing by us
We lost our starry notions on the way
If by chance I'd see you in the tavern
We'd smile at one another and we'd say

Those were the days, my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
Those were the days
Oh, yes, those were the days
La la la la la la
La la la la la la


Oh, BTW...green.

Not my point either really, clearly where we are now is preferable to last year or the years prior.

I'm fine with that. Really, this is more of a cautionary thread to everyone else. If the season so far is any indicator, the chances of us making it out of the first round are really, really slim, and I think a lot of the board has started to expect a 2nd round appearance. I'm not sure that's even close to being in the cards this year.

And we aren't out of the woods either as far as rebuilding is concerned when you consider the impact Roy's contract could have on this process. If that goes wrong, meaning we have to over pay to keep him or someone else over pays and he walks, that drastically changes our outlook for next year and maybe even the years beyond. Bird has done a great job, but I believe the realistic fact is, his job is far from over, and bringing in a Jamal Crawford or a Chris Kaman doesn't make his job done either. There are a lot of complicated factors that will still come into play. Obviously, we are on the right track and I have every reason to have faith in Bird, but things are definitely a little bit cloudier than you would think in terms of "Where do we go from here?" The answer isn't just simply let what we have percolate and we will be fine, and neither is the answer just simply make one trade and we will be fine.

I think in all likelihood by the time the Pacers are true "contenders" again whether that is next year or the year after, the roster will look quite different than it does now. In fact, I'd say it's very possible 3 of our 5 starters will be entirely different, maybe even 4 of the 5 starters. I think it's clear now we have "pieces", but they are kind of mis-matched. Bird's job now is to put the puzzle together by using those pieces to find what we are "missing". I'd say the only guy we have right now that will absolutely be here when the Pacers "contend" again, is Paul George and I'm not entirely sure what his role will be.

Trader Joe
03-13-2012, 11:56 AM
We shouldn't consistently beat the top teams in the East, as we're not a top team ourselves. I wasn't aware there were still people who haven't accepted that reality.

We're at the very bottom of the the top-third in the East, and the very top of the bottom-half of playoff teams. Above average, yes, but nowhere near good enough to consistently beat other good teams.

Chicago and Miami are heads-and-shoulders above everyone else, and we've went a respectable 2-4 against them (and were thisclose to going a promising 3-3).




I stopped here, I don't think you and I are that far apart, but we are not 2-4 against Miami and Chi, we are 1-4.

The conference record is something I have been watching all year. It's never been very good all season. I just have not seen it discussed much if at all.

Also, if you stick Al Horford back on the Hawks (like he will be next season) are we really neck and neck with them?

vnzla81
03-13-2012, 12:13 PM
Great, so what you guys are saying is we can't consistently beat any of the top teams in the East...got it. Isn't that sort of my point? Just saying "Oh, we've played Chicago, Miami, Orlando, and Atlanta multiple times" doesn't really make it any better. It just proves that we aren't even close to being where we need to be yet.

The must frustrating part about all this that many here don't get is that it looks like at the end of the day we are going to end up one or two spots better than last year after signing our "big free agent", trading our pick for a good player and after having another year for our young players to grow.

Speed
03-13-2012, 12:35 PM
I think its the old saying, you are who your record says you are.

Pacers are not the BEST team, we all knew that. They have taken the next step though and they are a good team now, with the arrow pointing up. Thats nothing to be ashamed of.

It's a process.

Ace E.Anderson
03-13-2012, 12:49 PM
The must frustrating part about all this that many here don't get is that it looks like at the end of the day we are going to end up one or two spots better than last year after signing our "big free agent", trading our pick for a good player and after having another year for our young players to grow.

To take it a small step further, didn't Bird always say that he had a "3-year plan" ? I know a lot of that plan was to help us get cap-room, get rid of bad contracts, etc. But we saw last summer, cap room doesn't mean a lot if you can't turn it into major acquisitions. Jamal Crawford, and Nene both turned down the Pacers in order to play elsewhere. (It's kind of funny that both players are struggling this season, but you get the point.)

I know that our cap room netted us D. West, and though Mr. West is making a difference, I kind of expected more from our FA signing (12 points and 7 boards from a player making 10 million a year)

We can't complain TOO much seeing how we're currently in 5th place and only a game and a half out from the 4th seed, but the fact that we seemed to be sliding towards the bottom of the playoff seeding is a tad disappointing.

Trader Joe
03-13-2012, 12:52 PM
I'm not necessarily disappointed by what I am seeing right now, which is sort of the point of this thread, some need to re-adjust expectations or they will be disappointed. IF you've tracked our conference record this season, you would notice we were always just about the worst conference record of any team in the playoffs.

joeyd
03-13-2012, 03:23 PM
The must frustrating part about all this that many here don't get is that it looks like at the end of the day we are going to end up one or two spots better than last year after signing our "big free agent", trading our pick for a good player and after having another year for our young players to grow.

But I thought that this was what was expected. We resigned ourselves to this outcome when it was apparent that there were no really big free agents that could be signed.

Hey, look at it this way, if we keep making this type of improvement (moving up two slots per year), then maybe we move to a #1 or #2 seed in the next two years and an ECF finals berth! I'd take that (I thought that's the plan anyway)! Wouldn't you take that outcome?