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Unclebuck
11-14-2004, 08:27 PM
I know Kstat does not like this guy but I think he might be the best NBA beat reporter out there.

You have to read through it to get to the trade discussion.


http://www.detnews.com/2004/pistons/0411/14/c07-4511.htm


Notebook

Artest is ridiculous, but so was ESPN

Way too much time was given to Pacer's comment about his musical sentiments

By Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

SALT LAKE CITY -- Ron Artest is not crazy -- not clinically, anyway. He is a lot of things -- impetuous, immature, selfish, eccentric, restless, temperamental -- but not crazy.

He does have a real hard time expressing himself. The words seem to come tumbling out of him so fast, they get jumbled up, and before he knows it, he's rambled on for five or 10 minutes and he sounds, well, certifiable.

But he's not, and the guys who know him best, the players, were the first to recognize what Artest's original intentions probably were last week. "You all aren't buying any of that stuff are you?" the Pistons' Derrick Coleman said, the day after Artest told the world he asked for time off because his musical endeavors had worn him out. "Come on, man. He's playing you all."

A lot of people believe Artest's original intent was to give his music company some free national exposure.

"It's something I would never do, but that really could have been a plot to get sales," said Celtics forward Walter McCarty, who also dabbles in the recording industry. "One thing you have to understand is that Ron Artest is not a dumb person. He's a smart person. He obviously knows how to get his name in the paper."

That's not to say what he did was right. It was ridiculous, as he has as much admitted since. He put his team, his coach and his organization in a horrible position. But the reaction from the media -- when I say media, I really mean the shouting heads on ESPN -- was just as ridiculous.

Let's keep this in perspective. ESPN gave up the first 15 minutes of "SportsCenter" to Artest and came back to it continuously throughout the show. Meanwhile, on the same day, Milwaukee's Marcus Fizer was busted for carrying a loaded handgun. Did you even know that?

Which affront is more dangerous? Which one is more crazy? Fizer got a one-game suspension. Artest was benched for two.

I know the Artest story was more sensational, more conversational. Everybody carries a handgun these days, right? Please.



Anyway, the fallout is that the Pacers now know for sure they have to trade Artest. They put him back into the lineup (where he scored 29 points Friday). They hope he says the right things to keep his trade value high.

The Pacers and Kings have been talking about a straight-up Artest for Peja Stojakovic trade. Stojakovic, unhappy and feeling alienated by his teammates in Sacramento, is merely going through the motions, averaging 13 points. The Kings are in the same position as the Pacers. They know they are going to have to trade one of their All-Star players.



Expect this trade to happen fairly soon.


And when it does, do the Pacers suddenly become the overwhelming favorites in the East?

No.

Stojakovic will no doubt give them a much-needed perimeter scorer. He will be a tremendous boost to their offense. But the Pacers' toughness was suspect with Artest. He is their best and perhaps only perimeter defender. Stojakovic is neither tough nor much interested in defending.

The Pacers will have to play a much more up-tempo game, and that doesn't really jive with Rick Carlisle's system.

And, finally, Jamaal Tinsley is still the point guard.

The Kings, in my humble opinion, would get the bigger short-term boost. The toughness and defensive intensity Artest could bring is an element that team has never had.

Of course, with Artest, every benefit is short-term. You never know when he might pull a Ricky Williams or a Bison Dele, and just walk away.

And that doesn't make him crazy, either.

Just restless.






Hacking Shaq

Dallas Coach Don Nelson, with his team leading Miami by double digits, started playing hack-a-Shaq with Shaquille O'Neal.

No big deal? It was in the second quarter. Naturally, O'Neal was angry.

"He will never beat me," O'Neal said. "When it's all said and done, I'll have five (championships) and he'll have none."

Better check the facts, Shaq. Nelson won five rings as a player with the Celtics.

"Shaq needs to take a lesson in the history of the NBA," Nelson said, laughing. "I already have five rings. I have more than Shaq as a player. We're even as coaches (0-0). He wants to get five. I already have five."

As for his lame hack-a-Shaq strategy, Nelson said, "I didn't mean to make Shaq angry. I love him to death, but what would he do in my shoes? If someone is shooting 38 percent, wouldn't you foul him, too?"

Sound bytes

* Agent Jeff Wechsler, who is trying to convince New Jersey to buy out the contract of his client Alonzo Mourning. "The fans on opening night were chanting Kenyon Martin's name. Now my hope is that the fans will start chanting, 'Let Zo go.' "

* Orlando General Manager John Weisbrod, dismissing a comparison to Dallas owner Mark Cuban: "Maybe the only common thing about us is that we're unorthodox. But he has his philosophies, and when he says things I don't often find myself agreeing with them."

* O'Neal, on an entertainer's life: "I know people pay good money for these seats. They work their (tails) off at jobs they don't want to be at. Then at 7:30 on certain nights, they want to come into the arena, grab a few beers, look at the cheerleaders and have a good time. That's where I come in."

* Let's start a petition to get old friend Cliff Robinson out of Golden State. After 14 straight playoff seasons, it seems cruel for him to finish his career on one of the worst teams in NBA history. And it's clearly affecting his disposition. Uncle Cliff sent Memphis' Pau Gasol to the floor with a flagrant forearm Friday night. "There are some guys I like playing against, especially the ones who are the so-called top players in the league," said Robinson, emphasizing the "so-called." Robinson also got into it with a fan seated behind the Warriors bench. The Warriors have shopped Robinson and Dale Davis around the league -- to New Jersey for Jason Kidd, for one -- but they might be better off waiting until the end of the season and clearing the $20 million of salary-cap space.

MSA2CF
11-14-2004, 08:34 PM
The Warriors are shopping Dale, eh?

:hmm:

Ragnar
11-14-2004, 08:45 PM
Man I dont want this deal. Peja just does not play any D. And he disappeared in the playoffs for Sactown last year.

I know Artest is crazy but I think we should try it for the rest of the year unless Jermaine is demanding that he go. Even then Jermaine wanted Isiah so I am not sure I would give him final say.

Artest is just to good on both ends of the floor. If there is any way possible to salvage him I would rather it happen here.

Suaveness
11-14-2004, 08:48 PM
Ewww no Peja..

une
11-14-2004, 08:50 PM
ugh I don't like this trade.

Lord Helmet
11-14-2004, 08:51 PM
Please don't do this trade.

Unclebuck
11-14-2004, 09:01 PM
It would be a very, very sad day. I don't see Peja helping the Pacers that much. I asked a question last week about whether the great play of Fred Jones made Artest more expendable. I certainly don't think so, but I do think that it makes Peja less valuable to the Pacers.

If, if, I say if the Pacers just must trade Artest, then I hope they get a low post player in return.

If this trade for Peja does take place the Pacers will become everything I hate in an NBA basketball team, "soft".

ImCrazyB
11-14-2004, 09:05 PM
You guys obviously are forgetting we have LB and DW as our GMs. They wouldn't do this trade.

And you guys are definitely under-rating Peja in terms of defense. You're forgetting he has been with the all-offense no-defense kings for the past couple of years. They can take great defensive players IE Doug Christie and turn them into 1 wayed offensive players. Peja is a decent defender and he had a few major defensive stops in last years playoffs.

I don't want the trade to happen, But if Artest plans on retiring after this year if we win..Then by all means..lets do it.

But you have to remember, The chances of this trade happening are less then 5%.

Destined4Greatness
11-14-2004, 09:24 PM
Never going to happen

rabid
11-14-2004, 09:46 PM
Bad trade. Bad Bad Bad.

pb777
11-14-2004, 09:57 PM
not goin for it. Ron may be "special", but he is too valuable to the success of the Pacers for this trade. It's funny though, in June so many people wanted this trade to happen. Now, even after all the controversy, nobody likes this trade.

sweabs
11-14-2004, 10:02 PM
Please...this CANNOT happen...I'm not listening!

:notlistening:

DisplacedKnick
11-14-2004, 10:09 PM
Peja's a decent defender - not great but OK.

But I think he fits better with the Kings and Artest fits better with Indy. I actually think Stephen Jackson makes Artest more expendable than Jones because he can play SF and, while he isn't in Ron's class he is a solid defender.

But if you could, and if DW and LB could do some interviews and make sure they'd work out, I'd deal him for a post player. You won't get a current all-star, but if Paxson would take him back you could get Michael Curry. You might also be able to get Kwame Brown though he'd be less valuable because his game mirrors JO's (at a lower level).

I just don't see the Pacers pulling the string on this one - I think they'd wait for the summer unless something really good comes along or trade him for cap relief somewhere.

rabid
11-14-2004, 10:16 PM
Obviously I am a fan of Ron's but please don't take my post as a defense of his actions. Having said that...

This franchise has put themselves in a position where success is based on the performance of Ron and J.O. Period. Take either of those guys away and you're essentially writing off any chance at a championship for the next couple of years.

And I would argue that this is even MORE the case for Ron than J.O. Why?

Ron is not a better player than J.O. But he is more valuable and much harder to trade. He's more valuable because the set of abilities he brings are UNIQUE to the NBA. Yes, unique. J.O. at least has peers in Duncan and Garnett. But there is NOBODY in the league that can play the 2 and 3, play incredible perimeter defense AND rack up 25 points per game the way Ron does. Not to mention the fact that he's built like a 20-year-old Mike Tyson. On top of that he is grossly underpaid compared to guys in the league with equal talent.

You just CAN'T trade this guy even if you want to, unless you're willing to tank your team's championship hopes. There is no one else on the team that we can package him with and, straight up, you won't get anywhere near equal value. Trading for Peja is a joke IMO, and the fact that this is the only peotential trade anyone is discussing should be a red flag.

A final comment: any team to trade Ron to immediately gets much better. Imagine if we had Peja, but had to face Sacramento, Detroit, Miami, the Lakers, or San Antonio in the playoffs with Ron on their roster. Sorry but I wouldn't like our chances.

Because of Ron's salary situation, I would actually BENCH the guy for the whole season before I would trade him (assuming a worst-case scenario where he was so distracting we couldn't play him), just to keep other teams from getting him. When his contract runs out, THEN you let him go.

My :twocents:

sweabs
11-14-2004, 10:21 PM
Excellent post rabid.

I'm watching the Kings game right now...Peja just jacks 3 after 3. I don't think I could handle it.

I really can't believe that Bird and Walsh will pull the trigger on this one...I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Like rabid said - Artest is one of those unique players in the league...the offensive combo of Artest/JO and the defensive combo of Artest/JO is just scary. It is, like UB said earlier today, the best combination in the league.

Hicks
11-14-2004, 10:42 PM
I fully believe DW/LB would do this trade. So those of you saying "no way", all I can say is, don't purchase any firearms anytime soon, as you may be liable to use them in the near future. :laugh:

Ron is obviously the better player, and looking at it purely from a basketball standpoint, it's a bad trade. But this wouldn't be a purely basketball trade, in the traditional sense. It's a chemistry trade, I think. This would put the entire team on the same page, with no distractions, and no more having to worry if their all-star is gonna do something wierd. With that kind of stuff out of the picture, the team will have absolutely nothing to think about but winning. All the distractions are gone. And Peja in and of himself is a fine player, but no, he's not as good as Ron.

All I can hope for is this is an addition by subtraction move.

I firmly believe this team will still play strong defense, as any team with Rick, Mike, and Kevin on it is going to, it's simply a given. But past that, we still have some good defenders here in JO, Jeff, Stephen, AJ, and Fred. And of course, our offense will get even better with the addition of the best shooter in the league.

So all is not lost if this happens, but at first glance, it's a little scary.

rabid
11-14-2004, 10:47 PM
We'll see. :p

Hicks
11-14-2004, 10:47 PM
As for being soft or not, ask yourself this. Is everyone other than Ron playing soft right now? I don't think so. And I don't think Ron leaving will change that. The others are going to play as tough as they have before. You either play tough or you don't, a teammate isn't going to make you tougher. The only thing I think that ever makes players play tougher or not is the coaches, and ours surely are about that. I don't see us becoming a bunch of sissies.

Unclebuck
11-14-2004, 11:01 PM
rabidpacersfan, you made so many good points, but one I had not thought of in quite some time is that Artest is grossly underpaid.

Hicks, I can't really argue with what you are saying, I realize it would be a chemistry trade. And I guess the real question is this, "would the better chemistry make up for losing Artest".

I have made this point for several years now whenever someone questions whether Jeff and J.O are physical enough to win a championship. (J.O has gotten a lot more physical over the years) I have argued that the physicalness that Artest brings helps offset the lack of physicalness that Jjeff and J.O bring. I know the coaching staff won't allow the Pacers to become too soft, and to some extent I agree, but coaching can only do so much.

Two other thing quick things.

1) Artest does intimidate opponents.

2) Artest's effort, hustle, confidence, desire, all the intangibles he brings gives the pacers a certain toughness a certain intangible that is very difficult to quanitify. There are so many games during the course of a season and effort players as good as Artest does lift the whole team. The spark would be gone.

So I would argue trading Artest while attempting to be an "addition by subtraction move" actually would simply be a subtraction by subtraction move.

My biggest fear, Artest is traded, and the Pacers lose that spark that he brings and we argue over what happened to the Pacers. They simply would not be the same type of team.

ChicagoJ
11-14-2004, 11:06 PM
I think too much is made of Peja's 'playoff disappearances.'

We've got JO to be "the man".

I'm not worried about Peja. I think this trade is neutral for the Pacers - Ron may be a better on court player than Peja, but when addition by subtraction means you get the guy that was fourth in last season's MVP balloting, is it really the end of the world?

canyoufeelit
11-14-2004, 11:07 PM
You guys are being silly here. The offense will be so much better with Peja, even better than you think because we'd be removing Ron's HORRIBLE shot selection. Peja moves very well without the ball and would be a big help in halfcourt - and looking at the rest of the East in a playoff series, Prince cannot stop him. He's one of those guys that Prince just can't guard, like Richard Jefferson.

You don't need the #1 defense to win. As long as we have good team defense - which is anchored by a freakin MVP candidate not named Ron Artest - and can make stops, we can still win. It's not like we're the Baltimore Ravens here :laugh:

Peja is just going through the motions in Sac-town. He's waiting. Do it. Seriously.

Hicks
11-14-2004, 11:07 PM
I know what you mean about Artest bringing a spark, but I don't think long-term we'd never have spark because of him not being here. I think we'ld learn to play that way regardless. Think of last week in Minnesota. Great energy or "spark", no Artest. I think we can do that again. The players will know it will be up to them to do it, they won't be waiting for Ron to do it for them. I know that's just guessing, but I think it's a reasonable guess. We would adjust. I can also say that Jackson brings spark to the team as well, if we started playing sluggish, he strikes me as the type of guy, both from watching him play and reading what he has to say, who would get in people's faces about it (in a good way).

So on one hand, I agree and can worry, but on the other, I think the team would move on and adjust, and play with spark.

Hicks
11-14-2004, 11:10 PM
I think too much is made of Peja's 'playoff disappearances.'

We've got JO to be "the man".

I'm not worried about Peja. I think this trade is neutral for the Pacers - Ron may be a better on court player than Peja, but when addition by subtraction means you get the guy that was fourth in last season's MVP balloting, is it really the end of the world?

It's possible it would end up being a neutral.

And I agree about not worrying about Peja. He's the third guy in the clutch I'd expect us to go to, third if you still count Reggie (which I suppose is fair). JO, Jack, and Reggie are all gonna be taking the biggest shots before him. Hopefully in that order.

canyoufeelit
11-14-2004, 11:10 PM
I think too much is made of Peja's 'playoff disappearances.'

Yes. Last year he was covered by Trenton Hassel and still poured in a few amazing performances (Wolves/Kings, game 3? 4? something like that) not to mention the entire Kings offense was f'd up because of the sensitive one-legged Webber

King Mob
11-14-2004, 11:15 PM
McCoskey isn't the best Pistons beat writer out there, let alone one of the best NBA writers. We, very literally, get better info from Chad Ford at Insider than we do McCoskey. I'd take this report with a grain of salt...

Hicks
11-14-2004, 11:16 PM
Of course, Chad Ford also expects this deal to happen soon :laugh: heh

canyoufeelit
11-14-2004, 11:16 PM
I think too much is made of Peja's 'playoff disappearances.'

We've got JO to be "the man".

I'm not worried about Peja. I think this trade is neutral for the Pacers - Ron may be a better on court player than Peja, but when addition by subtraction means you get the guy that was fourth in last season's MVP balloting, is it really the end of the world?

It's possible it would end up being a neutral.

And I agree about not worrying about Peja. He's the third guy in the clutch I'd expect us to go to, third if you still count Reggie (which I suppose is fair). JO, Jack, and Reggie are all gonna be taking the biggest shots before him. Hopefully in that order.

Not to mention Adelman's horrible play design at the end of games - do you really think having Peja shoot off-balance threes with 2 seconds left is the best way to utilize his talents. Is that so, Doctor?

Anthem
11-14-2004, 11:18 PM
I'm more interested in the Dale / Cliffy talk.

Come on, Mully. Send Dale home.

Charcoal Filtered
11-14-2004, 11:20 PM
For those afraid to do a Peja for Artest deal because of the hit we take on defense, do you think we are monumentally worse on the floor with Croshere/Artest or Peja/Foster? I think the early success can be attributed to having another shooter on the floor in Austin, but we will not be able to match up with the Pistons with him on the floor. Peja/Foster gives us a better fit.

On the court, I agree that Artest is a better player. However, the thing that pisses me off about him was his collapse in the Piston series. Because he got shut down, he took the Pacers out of game six with his antics. We now know that not only do the Pacers have to be better than the team they are playing, Artest cannot be beat individually. He is too selfish to let the rest of the team win the game. With Peja, I do not think he would have any problem with JO leading the team if he cannot produce.

I will spare the list of Ron's antics but he has mental problems. I would rather have our post season hopes rest on hard work instead of how Ron responds to medicatioin.

Doug
11-14-2004, 11:27 PM
I'm more interested in the Dale / Cliffy talk.

Come on, Mully. Send Dale home.

Good luck finding something that works salary wise. Austin and Fred for Dale works, but we'd never do that, I think.

Austin and Anthony Johnson for Dale works once AJ can be traded.

Not that I particularly want to trade Austin. He's been playing great. But that salary...

Unclebuck
11-14-2004, 11:36 PM
Does anyone else fear the Pacers becoming a jump shooting team?

For those of you who are trying to justify a Peja for Artest trade. I wish you would just say, Artest has to be traded and this is the best deal we can get. I might buy that argument, but I don't buy any of the other arguments.

Charcoal Filtered
11-14-2004, 11:38 PM
Has JO become a jump shooter?

Unclebuck
11-14-2004, 11:41 PM
Has JO become a jump shooter?



No, but J.O would be the only other low post player on the entire team.

ChicagoJ
11-14-2004, 11:45 PM
I like SJax in the post. For a guard, he plays bigger than 6'8". :shrug:

Charcoal Filtered
11-14-2004, 11:53 PM
I think we become a team that can shoot the jumper, but are not going to be limited to just shooting the jumper without Ron.

Charcoal Filtered
11-14-2004, 11:57 PM
BTW, Peja is looking really nice against Denver,

rabid
11-15-2004, 12:00 AM
You guys are being silly here. The offense will be so much better with Peja, even better than you think because we'd be removing Ron's HORRIBLE shot selection.

I think HORRIBLE (bold and in all caps no less) is a bit of an exaggeration...

Ron's shooting 50 percent so far this year.

45.5 percent from 3-point range. (Peja is 39.5 percent for his career.)

91.2 percent free throw percentage.

If he's making half his shots, his selection can't be THAT bad. :p

sweabs
11-15-2004, 12:16 AM
Last years team got us 61 wins - we went all the way to the Eastern Conference Finals.

If this trade went through, that is 2 key guys from last years team replaced by 2 new guys. I thought we just wanted to "tweak" certain areas...like addressing the SG position...which we did.

Let's let it be...:pray:

Charcoal Filtered
11-15-2004, 12:22 AM
Sequels are rarely better than the original.

Ron's playoff meltdown part two just does not sound good.

Anthem
11-15-2004, 01:49 AM
Ron didn't melt down in the playoffs.

In the beginning of Round 2, he kept trying to foul Prince out. It worked well in game one, but the announcers made a point to talk about how his strength made it not a foul (the move where he shows the ball then goes up with it, and the other player fouls but doesn't actually affect the shot).

Around game 4, he figured out that it wasn't going to happen and started trying to score instead of trying to draw fouls.

The flagrant against Rip was a Reggie-esque flopping job. Hard to blame Ron for it.

Anthem
11-15-2004, 01:50 AM
And we only got to the ECFs because Ron willed us past the Heat.

Suaveness
11-15-2004, 02:55 AM
Exactly Anthem. That flagrant was just a great acting job by Rip, and since it is Artest, they gave Rip the benefit of the doubt. And if it wasn't for Ron's D in the Miami series, it would have been much much closer. That one Detroit play all of a sudden makes Ron into a bad playoff performer.

Alabama-Redneck
11-15-2004, 04:45 AM
I was sitting here reading this thread and wondering why some people are that anxious to trade Ron for Peja.

I hear how Ron is a disruption and Peja is the answer to a "happy family" atmosphere.

My question is this the same Peja that is demanding a trade and "tanking" a season because his buddy, Vlade, was traded. What makes anyone think he will be happy here??

I think Peja is a very good bball player but I would really be concerned with his attitude. If a trade is all it takes to disrupt his stability, then are we really any better off with him vs Ron?

Ron may do some "weird" things but just going through the motions on the floor is not one of them.

I don't have the answer but moving one "head case" for another "head case" might not be the best move.

:confused: :o :cool:

stipo
11-15-2004, 05:42 AM
You know, I'm kind of worried about J.O.s' knee and ankle problems. He tried his hardest in the playoffs but in the end, because of those injuries, I feel like he let us down. How do we know if we can count on him? I'm just not sure he is going to be there if the team needs him. Don't you agree?
Maybe we should trade him for someone without a history of injury problems. Someone who we are absolutely sure we can depend on to play in the playoffs.:sarcasm:

AleksandarN
11-15-2004, 05:53 AM
I just want to bring up my post I had earlier this summer. Some people here are not aware of what Pedja brings to a team. I thought this repost will inform many of you who still go by old misinfomation

I just thought I would tell you how Pedja plays. What his strenghts and weakness are since I get to see him alot being a Kings fan.

1) first and foremost he is the best in the NBA when it comes to moving without the ball. Think a taller Richard Hamilton with better shooting and strength.

2) Secoundly he the best shooter in the game today especailly behind the arc. and FT line.

3) Thirdly he is a team player. He does what ever he can for the team.

4) He is a solid team defender. He is not athetic by any means but he stays in front of his man and plays very good position and team defence.

5) He is an average rebounder for his position not for his size though.

6) And one of the most important points is he is the very focal point of defenses. When you have him on your team it gives your teamates better looks. It is like playing 4 on 4 because no one leaves Pedja open when the oppossing team guards him. He also spreads floor better then any player in the game because of this. His presence alone gives his teamates a better chance to score. I think this would really open up the scoring for Oneil.

7) One of his weaknesses is his lack of leadership. He is a quite guy.

8) The biggest weakness is him playing every year for Serbia which takes a drain on him physically and mentally. This is the first time in 7 years that he is not playing basketball all year long since he is not playing the Olympics.

9) the last but not the least is his playoff preformances wheather or not it is him being tired or not a playoff performer he struggles. The only year in which I thought this was going to change was the year before last year when he played way above his season averages.

10.) And another thing which people are not aware of is that he averages 5.2 FT a game. Which I might add is only .8 off of what Ron averaged last year. That still averages more FT made a game then Ron. Actually he was 13th in made FT a game. So for people who do think he has no inside presence is wrong because he does go the line alot.

skyfire
11-15-2004, 10:04 AM
Without Tins and JO due to injury Ron thought he had to take it on himself and found he couldn't do it to beat the Pistons. I think the most important thing, presuming that he doesn't get traded, is that he recognizes that he cant be bigger than the team. I'm confident ron will continue to improve his game and from a mental point of view. Last season was the playoff experience the team needed.

Charcoal Filtered
11-15-2004, 10:22 AM
Ron didn't melt down in the playoffs.

In the beginning of Round 2, he kept trying to foul Prince out. It worked well in game one, but the announcers made a point to talk about how his strength made it not a foul (the move where he shows the ball then goes up with it, and the other player fouls but doesn't actually affect the shot).

Around game 4, he figured out that it wasn't going to happen and started trying to score instead of trying to draw fouls.

The flagrant against Rip was a Reggie-esque flopping job. Hard to blame Ron for it.

So Ron had no problems taking the team flight back to Indy after the Miami games? He pulled another crazy episode.

The refs are not listening to anything that Bill Walton has to say. Good to hear our playoff hopes were squashed because we could not foul out Prince. I hear that is the only way to beat the Pistons is getting him on the bench.

Rip did play it up after the fact, but Ron did cheapshot him. He also took that crazy *** three he had no business doing.

Is everyone on this board under the assumption that Ron is sane? Guess we should start with that argument first.

owl
11-15-2004, 10:29 AM
One thing that Peja is better at than Ron is passing.
Ron has a very difficult time passing out of the double team. I am not sure if I would do this trade.


owl

Fool
11-15-2004, 10:44 AM
McCoskey isn't the best Pistons beat writer out there, let alone one of the best NBA writers. We, very literally, get better info from Chad Ford at Insider than we do McCoskey. I'd take this report with a grain of salt...

I would like to echo this statement. McCosky also stated that he was 100% sure that the Rasheed Wallace trade was not going to happen the same day that it actually went through . He needs to pay attention to his own team rather than write 200 words of national perspective fluff.

(a little moment for myself follows, no real reason for a Pacer fan to read what is bellow)

Why don't you comment on why the Pistons continue to leave DC (big man #6) on the active roster while holding 2 (thats t-w-o) point guards on the inactive list even after Billups gets injured leaving them with only one pg, Chris? Geez, you suck at you job!

ChicagoJ
11-15-2004, 12:42 PM
And we only got to the ECFs because Ron willed us past the Heat.

I dunno about that. The Pacers got to the ECFs because SVG designed his entire gameplan around shutting down *Jermaine O'Neal*. Artest, and Foster, and Tinsley, and Fred Jones all did a nice job feeding on the scraps left over from the primary matchup - JO's post offense against Miami's swarming double- and triple- teams.

If JO wasn't such a dominant player, they would've played him and all the rest of those guys "straight up." And JO would've averaged 40 and 20 in that series and we'd win walking away. Give SVG credit for taking the ball out of JO's hands.

I'll give Ron credit for capitalizing on SVG's defensive scheme, but I wouldn't say that the Pacers only got past Miami because of Ron.

indygeezer
11-15-2004, 12:57 PM
I'm convinced that Ron sealed his fate last spring and it is just a matter of finding the right trade. HE couldn't handle the pressure and lost trust in his teamates. He tried to do it all himself and went outside the gameplan.

Slick Pinkham
11-15-2004, 01:03 PM
I would love to still be able to get Peja for Ron. I thought otherwise this summer, but I am now convinced that Ron's issues have repeatedly been downplayed and will happen AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN until he is out of here.

I'd prefer to keep him if he could mature, but I'm at a loss to fathom what evidence anyone needs to see to let them know that he doesn't "get it" and is not maturing or moving toward being a good teammate.

I think that this has become a pipe dream because we would never get as good a player as Peja for someone so obviously flawed when it comes to mental attitude and behavior.

Charcoal Filtered
11-15-2004, 02:48 PM
Just as a reminder, here is a pretty good chronical of the madness that is Ron-Ron:

http://espn.go.com/magazine/vol6no02artest.html