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View Full Version : Just because the Indiana Pacers can make a deal, it doesnít mean they should/Yahoo sports.



vnzla81
03-09-2012, 09:37 PM
I really hope they make a trade for "the guy"


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/just-because-indiana-pacers-deal-doesn-t-mean-201205206.html;_ylt=ArNLmbtO1Xm0zMwwaQFU8Cm8vLYF



Just because the Indiana Pacers can make a deal, it doesn’t mean they should

Everyone's leaning on the Pacers these days. With less than a week to go before the March 15 trade deadline, Indiana's cap space and impressive ranking in the East (pretty safely ensconced in the fifth seed) make Indiana the team every desperate NBA squad and desperate media outlet's favorite fallback trading partner. The Pacers are good but have plenty of holes; the team has the flexibility to make a transaction without having to send any players back, and personnel chief Larry Bird has never been hesitant to swing a deal or two.

What helps, though? Chris Kaman? Jamal Crawford? Why do the Pacers need to make a deal, just for the sake of movement and using up all that available cap space?

One watch of one half of Pacers basketball, and the team's needs become obvious to the viewer. Indiana badly covets a point guard that can create for others, and they need more fans to fill in (and speaking as someone who lives in Indiana, Hoosiers can really "fill in") those seats at the fieldhouse with a corporate sponsor that the team plays in. Kaman and Crawford aren't solving anything, in this regard, and it's questionable as to how the Pacers can justify even meeting the salary cap limit with the league's 29th-worst attendance.



On top of that, the Pacers seem unwilling to go after both Crawford and Kaman if it means giving up something we rarely see value in -- a middling non-lottery first-round pick. This is according to the Indianapolis Star's spot-on beat reporter Mike Wells.

In most years, the 26th pick in the draft (the space where the Pacers would currently work from, entering Friday night's action) is one of the least-enviable spots to choose from, because you could be wasting a guaranteed contract on training camp fodder. This draft is deeper than most, and (more importantly to this writer, who knows absolutely nothing about this year's potential draftees) the Pacers will need a player to step in once they clear the books this summer. A contributor on a slim contract, following an offseason that might see the Pacers either whiff on free agents or stack the deck with a top-heavy team with little depth, is going to be worth his weight in gold.

Assuming the Pacers don't draft a woman. Troglodytes. Get with the times, Larry Bird.

Even with 11 players under contract for 2012-13, the Pacers have enviable depth presuming all options are picked up and the team doesn't sign and trade a litany of rotation fillers away. It's not championship depth, to be sure, and the Pacers are still lacking that franchise player in spite of Danny Granger, David West and Roy Hibbert's past All-Star appearances, but outside of those All-Stars the Pacers boast nothing but solid contributors on tiny contracts. And yet they'll still have nearly a maximum deal's worth of cap space to spend this summer.

So to toss out a first-round selection or A.J. Price just for two months' worth of a player that might be redundant? It wouldn't be the worst deal in the world, but we can understand if the Pacers give this trade deadline a miss.

This won't stir the echoes in Indiana, though. For whatever reason, this team isn't connecting with fans; possibly because we're all out of money and like staying home to take in the Pacers on TV or radio (the team sports possibly the best radio/TV combo in the biz).

If the Pacers make a deal, it has to be for someone that stirs the imagination of those who are bored with this team. Not just because of the exposure that deal would create, but because the team needs a superstar. We don't often talk in these terms, but the Pacers need a game-changer, and someone opposing teams just can't counter. Sometimes team ball just isn't enough; and this part is being written in a vacuum, irrespective of the team's attendance woes.

It has to be for Rajon Rondo. It has to be for Steve Nash. It has to be for someone that absolutely tips the scales. Because Indiana has size, interior scoring, frontline depth, help on the wings, and able defenders all around. They have a fantastic third guard that happens to start, in Darren Collison. They have everyone besides the guy that can create a 12-2 run on his own. They need Rondo, or Steve Nash. Neither, unfortunately, might end up in Indy; though both would work in any number of two or three-way packages that would take advantage of Indy's many movable parts and cap space.

(Ray Allen, sublime player that he is, will not be included in that stratum. And not for Tyler Hansbrough and a first-round pick, a deal that makes no sense for either the Pacers or the Celtics.)

Beyond that, there's really no point. If the Pacers do pull off a trade for a lesser light, it'll blow up on Twitter that afternoon, 14 websites will come out with analysis of the deal, and it will be an absolute afterthought by the time Ersan Ilyasova turns 25 years old on May 15. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The Pacers won't be winning a championship this year, but they're one of the deeper teams in this league even in cost-cutting mode, and they've done a terrific job in Frank Vogel's first year considering the new parts, shortened season, and "wait 'til 2012-13"-stance. If the Pacers pass on any moves during this trade deadline, it shouldn't be a disappointment to the team's fan base.

And it wouldn't kill them to go to a few games, now and again.

immortality
03-09-2012, 10:09 PM
Only thing Pacers should trade for is a new casual fan base, come on Golden State Warriors fans, we actually make the playoffs now and again.

PacerPride33
03-09-2012, 10:32 PM
Rondo!!!!!!!!

Anthem
03-09-2012, 10:38 PM
Allen for Tyler and a first makes a TON of sense for the Celtics. Just not for us.

pathil275
03-09-2012, 10:49 PM
Except that we don't really have the depth we though we would have. And while we may have capable defenders they hardly bother showing it over the last couple weeks.

If someone like Rondo is available, you have to go after him. Period. (I know that the author didn't contradict this, but I just cannot thorougly agree with his assessment of the current Pacers roster)

Pacerized
03-10-2012, 01:52 AM
I agree that we shouldn't trade for the sake of it, but I don't agree with the article. A trade for Kaman makes us better this year and if we get him now and he likes the taste of winning here, it might sway his decision to stay with us past this season when other offers roll in next summer. We wouldn't be a legit threat for a title this year but it's one more big piece to the puzzle that we need. Instead of needing 2 big moves next summer we might only need 1. It's worth it for a 2cd. round pick and Lou and there's nothing wrong with winning a few more games this year.

CableKC
03-10-2012, 02:36 AM
One of the main points that the writer of the article brings up is the importance of winning back the fans. But unless Nash signs an extension....trading for Rondo appears to be the only Player that makes sense based off of what the Writer is trying to suggest.

Realistically, I don't see that happening...so the next step would be to make as deep of a Playoff Push that they can make to create the same buzz as what the Hawks did a few years back. Creating buzz has to start somewhere....once we make the 2nd round....there will be greater national and local exposure that will carry into the next season....so I have no problem making a run at Expiring Contracts that will make an impact just for this season.

Brad8888
03-10-2012, 09:45 AM
Trade 'em all. We need "stretch 4's", even more ball dominant pg's, and a coach who appreciates experienced players and understands that the best way for young players to gain valuable experience is to watch from the bench, and that playing veterans always gives a team the "best chance to win".

:rotflmao:

2minutes twoa
03-10-2012, 10:14 AM
Trade 'em all. We need "stretch 4's", even more ball dominant pg's, and a coach who appreciates experienced players and understands that the best way for young players to gain valuable experience is to watch from the bench, and that playing veterans always gives a team the "best chance to win".

:rotflmao:

Oh God! JOB has possessed Brad8888! *starts splashing holy water* The power of Christ compels you! The power of Christ compels you!

Brad8888
03-10-2012, 10:21 AM
Oh God! JOB has possessed Brad8888! *starts splashing holy water* The power of Vogel compels you! The power of Vogel compels you!

Fixed

Jessen
03-10-2012, 10:48 AM
Good article, I mostly agree with what he is saying. I'm not 100% convinced with the "superstar needed to draw in the fans argument" although it would certainly get us there MUCH MUCH MUCH quicker. If we win consistently enough, we will draw. It would also help if we could win some games this week against playoff opponents like the Heat and Magic.

Ace E.Anderson
03-10-2012, 11:53 AM
One of the main points that the writer of the article brings up is the importance of winning back the fans. But unless Nash signs an extension....trading for Rondo appears to be the only Player that makes sense based off of what the Writer is trying to suggest.

Realistically, I don't see that happening...so the next step would be to make as deep of a Playoff Push that they can make to create the same buzz as what the Hawks did a few years back. Creating buzz has to start somewhere....once we make the 2nd round....there will be greater national and local exposure that will carry into the next season....so I have no problem making a run at Expiring Contracts that will make an impact just for this season.



I agree.. When the average fan looks at a box score and sees the pacers losing to any team worth while (like had been the case for a month) it doesn't make them want to go see them play.

Do we NEED a trade, no. But if we want to make noise in the playoffs (aka not only make it to the second round, but be competitive) then I think it's obvious that SOMETHING has to be added to this roster.

Bball
03-10-2012, 12:16 PM
The Pacers need someone with some swagger, confidence, and an aura about them. Maybe even a little showmanship. Someone that the fans can believe in and the perception is that this person wills his team to wins and more times than not will make the game changer or game winner.

It doesn't matter what the stats say or what the stat comparisons say.... What matters is the fans and team need someone they feel comfortable with, someone who has the perception of being 'the guy' with the shot clock ticking down or with the game on the line. The guy you want taking the shot. It doesn't matter if he's 1-10 for the game, you want him taking the big shot.

We need someone with the game on the line the opposing team doesn't want to see get the ball.

We don't have 'that' guy currently. What we have at best is 'that guy' by default or the coaching staff drawing up a play for the guy who seems to have the hottest hand in the game... even though nobody is really thinking he's going to make it. We're all more just hoping.

Justin Tyme
03-10-2012, 02:25 PM
The Pacers need someone with some swagger, confidence, and an aura about them. Maybe even a little showmanship. Someone that the fans can believe in and the perception is that this person wills his team to wins and more times than not will make the game changer or game winner.

It doesn't matter what the stats say or what the stat comparisons say.... What matters is the fans and team need someone they feel comfortable with, someone who has the perception of being 'the guy' with the shot clock ticking down or with the game on the line. The guy you want taking the shot. It doesn't matter if he's 1-10 for the game, you want him taking the big shot.

We need someone with the game on the line the opposing team doesn't want to see get the ball.

We don't have 'that' guy currently. What we have at best is 'that guy' by default or the coaching staff drawing up a play for the guy who seems to have the hottest hand in the game... even though nobody is really thinking he's going to make it. We're all more just hoping.


I understand your thinking I just can't agree about the part it makes no difference about what that persons stats say. I want someone who is confident to take the shot, has the brass to take the shot, but I don't want a player whose stats are gotten by the putting up volumes of shots at a poor % to get those stats. That last part of the previous sentence just described Chucker Crawford. There is a flip side to having him... he will shoot you out of games by his volume of shots he takes which many are not good shots. 39-40% volume shooter isn't my pick to be taking the difference making shot. Yes, at 39% shooting ,I just described Granger, and he's not my choice either to take that all important shot.

There is a difference in a scorer that gets his pts by not shooting a volume of shots and a shooter. I'd want a scorer who has faith in his shot to hit that all important basket. IMO, I just described Ray Allen. He's an "efficient scorer". This season's stats for Allen are 14.7 PPG on 47.4% FG, 47% 3pt on 10.8 attempts.

I have no desire to trade for Chucker Crawford or OJ Mayo. Bird obviously has a liking for Allen, or he and Ainge wouldn't have had a conversation recently for Ray Allen. JMOAA

ksuttonjr76
03-10-2012, 02:26 PM
Rondo's name does come up a lot for being THE player that Indiana needs to compete.

Mackey_Rose
03-10-2012, 02:38 PM
The Pacers need someone with some swagger, confidence, and an aura about them. Maybe even a little showmanship. Someone that the fans can believe in and the perception is that this person wills his team to wins and more times than not will make the game changer or game winner.

It doesn't matter what the stats say or what the stat comparisons say.... What matters is the fans and team need someone they feel comfortable with, someone who has the perception of being 'the guy' with the shot clock ticking down or with the game on the line. The guy you want taking the shot. It doesn't matter if he's 1-10 for the game, you want him taking the big shot.

We need someone with the game on the line the opposing team doesn't want to see get the ball.

We don't have 'that' guy currently. What we have at best is 'that guy' by default or the coaching staff drawing up a play for the guy who seems to have the hottest hand in the game... even though nobody is really thinking he's going to make it. We're all more just hoping.

Rondo may not be the guy you want shooting with the clock winding down, but you do want him with ball. He'll get someone else an open shot, if he can't get himself a layup.

There is also no doubt that he has the swagger, confidence, and showmanship that you first mentioned, in abundance.

TheDavisBrothers
03-10-2012, 02:43 PM
The Pacers need someone with some swagger, confidence, and an aura about them. Maybe even a little showmanship. Someone that the fans can believe in and the perception is that this person wills his team to wins and more times than not will make the game changer or game winner.

It doesn't matter what the stats say or what the stat comparisons say.... What matters is the fans and team need someone they feel comfortable with, someone who has the perception of being 'the guy' with the shot clock ticking down or with the game on the line. The guy you want taking the shot. It doesn't matter if he's 1-10 for the game, you want him taking the big shot.

We need someone with the game on the line the opposing team doesn't want to see get the ball.

We don't have 'that' guy currently. What we have at best is 'that guy' by default or the coaching staff drawing up a play for the guy who seems to have the hottest hand in the game... even though nobody is really thinking he's going to make it. We're all more just hoping.

So in other words, we need Reggie back :D

vnzla81
03-10-2012, 02:51 PM
The Pacers need someone with some swagger, confidence, and an aura about them. Maybe even a little showmanship. Someone that the fans can believe in and the perception is that this person wills his team to wins and more times than not will make the game changer or game winner.

It doesn't matter what the stats say or what the stat comparisons say.... What matters is the fans and team need someone they feel comfortable with, someone who has the perception of being 'the guy' with the shot clock ticking down or with the game on the line. The guy you want taking the shot. It doesn't matter if he's 1-10 for the game, you want him taking the big shot.

We need someone with the game on the line the opposing team doesn't want to see get the ball.

We don't have 'that' guy currently. What we have at best is 'that guy' by default or the coaching staff drawing up a play for the guy who seems to have the hottest hand in the game... even though nobody is really thinking he's going to make it. We're all more just hoping.

This :nod:

http://www.roundballchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Monta-Ellis.jpg

Bball
03-10-2012, 03:03 PM
I understand your thinking I just can't agree about the part it makes no difference about what that persons stats say.

I meant you couldn't use just any player's stats and say "But he's already our man... He's hitting a better percentage of 4th qtr shots than Michael Jordan averaged in his prime if you check 4th qtr stats at www.fourthquarterstats.com. He's just not getting credit!!"

IOW I don't need stats to tell me that with the game on the line nobody feels Granger is going to make it. We're not all just waiting to see how we get Granger the ball and what he'll do with it. The other team's fans don't turn pale with concern when/if Granger gets the ball with 5 secs to go.

When the team is struggling and needs a bucket... I have more faith in West to get it than anyone else right now. But that's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Maybe George can get there with more game experience but he's not there yet either. I believe the ship has sailed as far as Granger is concerned being 'that guy'.

It's just a certain mixture of confidence, swagger, and ability... and maybe some magic... and right now we just don't have anyone that has 'it'.

PacersHomer
03-10-2012, 03:52 PM
I'd go after Rondo first and then Nash, but blowing up a 23-14 team would be foolish if we don't get a star back.

ksuttonjr76
03-10-2012, 04:00 PM
I'd go after Rondo first and then Nash, but blowing up a 23-14 team would be foolish if we don't get a star back.

True. Personally, Rondo and Kaman are really the only players that I want for this current team.

Justin Tyme
03-10-2012, 05:20 PM
It's just a certain mixture of confidence, swagger, and ability... and maybe some magic... and right now we just don't have anyone that has 'it'.


Couldn't agree more.

One of the problems with not having someone getting a good shot is you don't have a PG that can get them a good shot.

rexnom
03-10-2012, 05:54 PM
Rondo may not be the guy you want shooting with the clock winding down, but you do want him with ball. He'll get someone else an open shot, if he can't get himself a layup.

There is also no doubt that he has the swagger, confidence, and showmanship that you first mentioned, in abundance.
Absolutely right. In the Knicks overtime game, Rondo just took over. Pierce is their crunch time guy but he didn't even score in overtime. It was all the Rajon Rondo show. And not scoring per se. Breaking people down, disrupting offenses, fastbreaks, whew. It was astounding to watch.

Trophy
03-10-2012, 06:05 PM
This :nod:

http://www.roundballchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Monta-Ellis.jpg

I honestly think Vogel would love to coach Monta Ellis. He'd love having someone who would bring that swagger, on the court leadership to create shots.

PacerPride33
03-10-2012, 08:03 PM
Think a granger/jones for Ellis/wright swap sounds about right

xIndyFan
03-10-2012, 08:17 PM
Think a granger/jones for Ellis/wright swap sounds about right

monta ellis would make a great 6th man. and give the pacers a chance to make the ECF. but trading granger for him makes them and 7th/8th seed.

BRushWithDeath
03-12-2012, 11:05 AM
monta ellis would make a great 6th man. and give the pacers a chance to make the ECF. but trading granger for him makes them and 7th/8th seed.

The hypothetical deal that was proposed by Bill Simmons and referenced here was Granger/Dahntay for Ellis/Dorell Wright. That deal is a no brainer.

Ace E.Anderson
03-12-2012, 11:14 AM
They hypothetical deal that was proposed by Bill Simmons and referenced here was Granger/Dahntay for Ellis/Dorell Wright. That deal is a no brainer.

I think that would make sense from both teams stand point. It wont happen, but definitely makes sense.

Hicks
03-12-2012, 12:18 PM
Put me down for thinking they should make a move. Not ANY move, but if there's a good one out there, don't hesitate.

pacer4ever
03-12-2012, 01:39 PM
I only do a trade now if it is a no brainier. If I am Bird and Co I save my cap room for the draft and be super active on draft day which IMO is the better time to make a big move either taking on a contract and a nice pick or getting another impact player. When you have tons of cap room going into the draft you can do so many things that you other wise cant. That is why I love that the draft happens before free agency in the NBA.