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View Full Version : Hawks/Pacers postgame thread 03/06/12



immortality
03-06-2012, 09:43 PM
Sigh :(. Losing to the Hawks without Joe Johnson and Al Harford, while getting out rebounded, and getting abused on the offensive boards. No excuses in this one.

CableKC
03-06-2012, 09:45 PM
getting outrebounded is becoming a common theme here....

rock747
03-06-2012, 09:45 PM
We need a point guard.

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 09:47 PM
We should've went to Hill and West towards the end they were the two who had it going, but no, we went to Paul and Granger, West didn't even touch the ball.

Gold
03-06-2012, 09:49 PM
I blame AJ price for both losses. (Can I do that now?)

And I also blame the whole team for not giving David West the ball at all down the stretch.

LoneGranger33
03-06-2012, 09:49 PM
West scores much better when he shoots open shots and backs down into great position - who would have thought?

Nuntius
03-06-2012, 09:49 PM
Sigh is indeed the correct sentiment :(

We blew it today, folks. We shouldn't lose this one. I'm concerned now.

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 09:50 PM
We need a legit starting point guard. I've always been supportive of DC but at this point in his career he's just not consistent enough to be starting.

pwee31
03-06-2012, 09:51 PM
Tough one to take at home after a 20 point loss to Bulls, w/o Joe Johnson and Horford. Got out-rebounded and Atlanta knocked down open jumpshots. Josh Smith, Pargo and Marvin Williams

presto123
03-06-2012, 09:51 PM
That cupcake schedule before the All Star Break was the last thing this team needed. Every time they get on a good streak I think it goes to their heads a bit. We don't have enough talent to just show up and beat good teams. We can only beat the good teams through effort and playing as a team. We'll see how many losses in a row it takes here before they wake up again.

Bball
03-06-2012, 09:54 PM
The early season swagger is gone... Something has changed. The team is not 'smashmouth' any longer. Gone are the days when teams are getting chippy with the Pacers and getting taken out of their game. Instead it's the Pacers getting mentally taken out of the game.

David West appears to me to be the closest guy to having some swagger, poise, and ability to score when we need a bucket... and we probably should emphasize him more.

Granger has lost it... his inconsistency is just momentum killing. For whatever reason it just doesn't seem to be coming back.

Hibbert's agent is probably wondering if he can rewind the clock and talk about that extension afterall.

No hustle or urgency, with poise, from the team as a whole at all.

LA_Confidential
03-06-2012, 09:55 PM
Rebounding killed us but J. Smith was on tonight. At least until the crunch. We had our chances but couldn't capitalize. Paul George is an ANIMAL!
I have no faith, expectations or anything in DC. The sooner he's replaced the better. He just isnt good enough.

I get upset when PG, DG, DW, RH or GH come up short because I expect good things from them. DC on the other hand, I don't even care anymore.

Asher99
03-06-2012, 09:56 PM
We shot our season high in FT and lost at home.

The attendance looked real bad on TV and this game following a national TV beat down isn't going to help get butts in the seats, especially with the Florida swing on deck which could/should push our record vs winning teams even lower.

Sparhawk
03-06-2012, 09:56 PM
This loss is 10 times worse than the Bulls. Their 2 best players out and we still lose.

Granger and Hibbert still disappearing in games. DC has struggled recently. Hans is just plain bad; teams know how to play him and Hans just doesn't have the talent to make the adjustment.

Smashmouth D has been MIA for a loooong time now. Help defense is slow and closes in too far leaving guys wide open for 3; really need to work on that. Pacers continue to give up too many O-boards.

Nice to see West play well. PG's shot is still off, but his D has really picked up. Glad to have Hill off the bench.

Definitely not complete doom or gloom. Our record is still pretty damn good. This team just needs to find that defensive intensity they had to start the year. Granger really needs to step up as the leader and best player on the team.

What I do know is that upgrading the point isn't going to happen this year. I do think getting Kaman should be a top priority. His offense will really help the second unit and may help Hans get some better looks.

TheDon
03-06-2012, 09:57 PM
I'm tired of seeing people leading the fast break and people closing out on that person and instead of just doing the common sense thing we take it up against 3 or 4 people and end up embarassing ourselves. Also, I think we lead the league in and 1 plays. I don't know if they keep track of that sort of thing but we see like 4 - 5 of those every night from some lame *** touch foul that makes me want to throw my remote through the screen.

LoneGranger33
03-06-2012, 09:57 PM
Frank Vogel and Larry Bird have some real work ahead of them this week.

immortality
03-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Surprised Larry Drew isn't getting more attention with two of his best players being out and his team still playing strong.

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Hansbrough's offense is too one-dimensional. Three moves and that's it, a jump shot that seldom goes in, one dribble two step towards the middle jump hook, and put backs. Can't even shoot a fadeaway. Teams know this and have adjusted their defense towards Hansbrough, and he has no clue how to counter.

Pacer Fan
03-06-2012, 09:58 PM
I have a headache...for real...caused by the Pacers!

Ownagedood
03-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Alright guys... I missed the game... am noticing some strange tendancies from the box score, can you fill me in?


Hibbert only took 6 shots?
Price only played 6 mins AND lance didn't play?

rock747
03-06-2012, 10:00 PM
Every time i hear a David West interview, I think everything is going to be ok.

Pacer Fan
03-06-2012, 10:00 PM
I feel numb...in disbelief...caused by the Pacers!

TheDon
03-06-2012, 10:02 PM
I'm all for the Amundson for backup power forward move. Lou makes some boneheaded passes at times, but it can't be any worse than your backup power forward shooting for 25%. Even if lou does suck at making foul shots at least he's drawing fouls.

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 10:03 PM
Our record is delusional. I'd really like to see what the combined record for teams we've played is, compared to others. Two days ago we were sitting at #3 in the East yet people were still talking about NYK, BOS, ATL, ORL as main threats to chicago and miami. I wondered why, but now I know, we're just not that good against top teams right now.

Sparhawk
03-06-2012, 10:03 PM
Starters played a lot of minutes tonight cause our bench just sucks. So much for a deep bench.

Pacers win games when: Granger steps up, bench plays well, & defensive intensity is high. Oh yeah, and we missed a lot of FTs that could have changed the game.

Pacer Fan
03-06-2012, 10:04 PM
Why was Roy smiling with the game on the line. I wasn't smiling, I didn't see any humor out there.

PR07
03-06-2012, 10:04 PM
Rebounding has to get better. One guy won't solve our woes either, guys just have to do a better job of boxing out and going after the basketball. It's a team effort.

Hibbert has also gotten some tough breaks the past few games, but he has to weather the storm and keep his confidence up. He's too important to this team to go in one of his funks.

Sparhawk
03-06-2012, 10:05 PM
Pacers really miss Foster's rebounding and intensity. That cannot be replaced with what we have.

Pacer Fan
03-06-2012, 10:06 PM
I'd like to say something about the game, but i'd be like a broken record and records are getting really old.

QuickRelease
03-06-2012, 10:07 PM
Why was Roy smiling with the game on the line. I wasn't smiling, I didn't see any humor out there.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_k8iBt9wE-1nHR4hke9Aakp5M0ZAbqwggOOEkwLzz2bWmM25H

bballpacen
03-06-2012, 10:07 PM
OMFG... THE SKY IS FALLING AND THE SEAS ARE DRYING UP...


Trade Vogel and Granger for a bag of chips, trade DC for a Capri Sun... Trade David West for a ham salad, and trade Tyler for a hot dog... Then it will be a picnic getting into the playoffs...

You guys are so fickle on occasion about our guys... If they have a good game, they are awesome!! If they miss a few shots make a few bad plays, they should be traded for used toilet paper...

I personally am not yet concerned... It is going to be a rough stretch, but it will give our team some important lessons for the future... Oh wait, there is not going to be a future...

Nuntius
03-06-2012, 10:07 PM
Our record is delusional.

No. At least, it's not more delusional than Philly's. Orlando kinda deserves to be where they are and the Hawks could be higher without those injuries but we're where we should be. The Knicks have had a way easier schedule than us before even being .500.

Shade
03-06-2012, 10:09 PM
Another losing streak is on the horizon.

Still time to make a move before the trade deadline.

90'sNBARocked
03-06-2012, 10:10 PM
Very disapointing to say the least. Leave it to the Pacers to make Janero Pargo look like Ray Allen in his prime.

Can we please find a deal for Josh Smith? He kills it every time we play them

The most dissapointing to me is Roy. I am starting to think if he gets close to a max , should we let him walk or work on a trade. He has been inconsistent his entire time here. Some good games, some great games, and then some games where he looks completely lost. I want to see the Roy that would establish positioning and demand the ball. Im not sure where his mental process is at but its troubling.

DC I just cant make excuses for him any longer. He is a shooting guard in a point guards body. He ultimately would make a good back up, but he is too inconsistent from game to game to be our starting PG.

Ty Im starting to think maybe his whole vertigo thing is acting up. I remeber the time he got hit on the head very hard, and I wonder if there is a connection there. If thats not the cause then it gets deeper, and players are starting to realise that if you dont go for the shot fake and hold your position, Ty cant really get a decent shot off.

Is another long losing streak coming? I don't know but it doesnt look good. This was the game we were "supposed to win

We need someone who can flat out score. Whether that be at sg or sf, one who can be "instant offense" off the bench

Next game will tell a lot. Not by the final socre but how they play for 4 quarters

Justin Tyme
03-06-2012, 10:10 PM
Sigh is indeed the correct sentiment :(

We blew it today, folks. We shouldn't lose this one. I'm concerned now.


I didn't like losing to the Bulls, but this loss is just unacceptable. If Bird doesn't see this team needs a b/u Center and a different PG then I don't know what he sees. His great bench strenth has turned into a liability and not the asset he thought he had.

Kaman is the b/u 5, and Jack is the best pg the Pacers can come up by the trade deadline. Sure, I'd rather have D'Will, but that's not going to happen. Jack is only 5 mil with 1 year left who is better than DC, and Kaman is an expiring. You can't rely on Foster for the playoffs anymore than the rest of the reg season. Both are what this team needs to get past the 2nd round.

Nuntius
03-06-2012, 10:11 PM
I personally am not yet concerned...

I agree with your post (hence why I thanked this) but I am concerned at the moment :(

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 10:13 PM
Alright guys... I missed the game... am noticing some strange tendancies from the box score, can you fill me in?


Hibbert only took 6 shots?
Price only played 6 mins AND lance didn't play?

You lucky man.

PGisthefuture
03-06-2012, 10:13 PM
I didn't like losing to the Bulls, but this loss is just unacceptable. If Bird doesn't see this team needs a b/u Center and a different PG then I don't know what he sees. His great bench strenth has turned into a liability and not the asset he thought he had.

Kaman is the b/u 5, and Jack is the best pg the Pacers can come up by the trade deadline. Sure, I'd rather have D'Will, but that's not going to happen. Jack is only 5 mil with 1 year left who is better than DC, and Kaman is an expiring. You can't rely on Foster for the playoffs anymore than the rest of the reg season. Both are what this team needs to get past the 2nd round.

I'm sorry, but I have a tough time believing Jack is a better pg than Collison.

PacerPride33
03-06-2012, 10:13 PM
At least Orlando lost to charlotte

LA_Confidential
03-06-2012, 10:14 PM
OMFG... THE SKY IS FALLING AND THE SEAS ARE DRYING UP...


Trade Vogel and Granger for a bag of chips, trade DC for a Capri Sun... Trade David West for a ham salad, and trade Tyler for a hot dog... Then it will be a picnic getting into the playoffs...

You guys are so fickle on occasion about our guys... If they have a good game, they are awesome!! If they miss a few shots make a few bad plays, they should be traded for used toilet paper...

I personally am not yet concerned... It is going to be a rough stretch, but it will give our team some important lessons for the future... Oh wait, there is not going to be a future...

A Capri Sun sounds good right about now.

rock747
03-06-2012, 10:16 PM
A Capri Sun sounds good right about now.

So does a ham salad sandwich, mmm capri sun and ham salad.

BlueNGold
03-06-2012, 10:17 PM
I'm sorry, but I have a tough time believing Jack is a better pg than Collison.

Offensively he's not. Overall he's about even with Collison. Jack couldn't run an offense either but he could defend pretty well. I think I'd prefer him at the point. He's most definitely DC's equal or so.

Edit: considering Jack has a higher scoring average, he might be just as good offensively...keeping in mind the Hornets are not as good as we are.

D-BONE
03-06-2012, 10:20 PM
I'm sorry, but I have a tough time believing Jack is a better pg than Collison.

Arguably neither one is a true PG, but at least Jack brings leadership, passion, moxie and consistent scoring ability. DC IMO hasn't brought squat in terms of consistency in any area.

At this point you have a bundle of cap space an nobody untouchable. I'd be very active seeing what's out there unless there is a very quick turn around.

The team is not bad, but it's not clear how good they are. And I don't think it has the pieces to develop into ECF/NBAF contenders even with more seasons involved. So there's no reason not to see if some of that reshaping process can't start now.

Justin Tyme
03-06-2012, 10:20 PM
Pacers really miss Foster's rebounding and intensity. That cannot be replaced with what we have.


You are absolutely correct. It's up to Bird to fix it. SO FIX IT BIRD! I don't want to hear excuses after the trade deadline ends, and you give your canned speech how you tried blah blah blah. You NOW have the means to make changes, so do it!.

BlueNGold
03-06-2012, 10:21 PM
Why was Roy smiling with the game on the line. I wasn't smiling, I didn't see any humor out there.

You'd be smiling too if you played like crap every game but still made the all star team and had enough money to paper your walls with 100 dollar bills.

immortality
03-06-2012, 10:22 PM
Looking back at these games, we are probably as good as the 76ers right now. They don't have anyone who can truly create there own shot, they make mental mistakes, and can't close out games. I can't wait too see until we play them next week, should tell a lot about the Pacers.

Hopefully Pacers can keep there stamina for that game, because it will be 4 games in 5 nights.

LA_Confidential
03-06-2012, 10:22 PM
Offensively he's not. Overall he's about even with Collison. Jack couldn't run an offense either but he could defend pretty well. I think I'd prefer him at the point. He's most definitely DC's equal or so.

Edit: considering Jack has a higher scoring average, he might be just as good offensively...keeping in mind the Hornets are not as good as we are.


Didn't want Jack then don't want him now.

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 10:23 PM
No. At least, it's not more delusional than Philly's. Orlando kinda deserves to be where they are and the Hawks could be higher without those injuries but we're where we should be. The Knicks have had a way easier schedule than us before even being .500.

I should clarify what I mean. Our record is not indicative of where we are as a team "right now". In other words, we are not playing at a level where a 23-13 team should play. In these two games we saw some really bad defense by our players. We saw our players not attacking the basket. We saw some really poor shot selections. What frustrates me the most is our lack of rebounding these two games, lack of ball movement, Hibbert being bullied by Noah I can somewhat understand but an all star shouldn't be outplayed by Pachulia that was just plain embarrassing.

I saw Phillies game with Chicago and what I saw was intensity. Looking at these past two Pacers game I see lackadaisical.

Pacerfan
03-06-2012, 10:25 PM
What really bothered me was the rebounding. Who do they think they are that they don't have to try and get rebounds? We actually did a pretty good job of stopping their first attack, but it was the second chance points that really killed us.

graphic-er
03-06-2012, 10:27 PM
Rebounding has to get better. One guy won't solve our woes either, guys just have to do a better job of boxing out and going after the basketball. It's a team effort.

Hibbert has also gotten some tough breaks the past few games, but he has to weather the storm and keep his confidence up. He's too important to this team to go in one of his funks.


Pacers really miss Foster's rebounding and intensity. That cannot be replaced with what we have.


Another losing streak is on the horizon.

Still time to make a move before the trade deadline.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C8JVqulRkbs/T0JkIzgGDbI/AAAAAAACfR4/koyer4mP2RQ/s1600/MarcinGortat25.jpg

BlueNGold
03-06-2012, 10:27 PM
Didn't want Jack then don't want him now.

I agree. You could say the same for Collison. Still, both of those guys are "good" by recent Pacer standards. The problem is, our standards for the PG position are so low we should never expect to contend.

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 10:29 PM
Hansbrough's offense is too one-dimensional. Three moves and that's it, a jump shot that seldom goes in, one dribble two step towards the middle jump hook, and put backs. Can't even shoot a fadeaway. Teams know this and have adjusted their defense towards Hansbrough, and he has no clue how to counter.

Tyler shot 2.8% of our teams' shots tonight.....

Asher99
03-06-2012, 10:29 PM
Hansbrough's offense is too one-dimensional. Three moves and that's it, a jump shot that seldom goes in, one dribble two step towards the middle jump hook, and put backs. Can't even shoot a fadeaway. Teams know this and have adjusted their defense towards Hansbrough, and he has no clue how to counter.

Giving him the ball somewhere under 12 feet out for a change would be a good start. He's best and banging and drawing fouls down low and using that to open up the outside shots and drives to the hole.


I'm all for the Amundson for backup power forward move. Lou makes some boneheaded passes at times, but it can't be any worse than your backup power forward shooting for 25%. Even if lou does suck at making foul shots at least he's drawing fouls.

For the record Lou has a lower percentage than Tyler has this year. and the FT difference is 79.7 to 47.1 in a season he's better than his career average.

DieHard
03-06-2012, 10:30 PM
Infuriating loss. That said, I'm not ready to give up on our team, or our season because we didn't beat the bulls on the road and came out flat in a back to back. Maybe I'm just a big sunshiner, but I'm so tickled about where we are in the big picture it is easy to shake a game like this off. We are competing for home court advantage in the playoffs. We have more flexibility to improve our roster than any other team in the league. I'm confident Larry Bird will make a key move at the deadline. I'm so excited for the playoffs and I'll grieve over the losses then.

dal9
03-06-2012, 10:31 PM
Didn't want Jack then don't want him now.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7oppie-4VG0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

PacersHomer
03-06-2012, 10:31 PM
Lazy D and lazy rebounding leads to a loss. We need to beat Orlando in a bad way. Miami will be a loss no matter what so I'm looking passed it.

90'sNBARocked
03-06-2012, 10:31 PM
Pacers lose looking bad doing it, Peyton Manning's career with the Colts is done

Bad day all around Nap

PGisthefuture
03-06-2012, 10:32 PM
Infuriating loss. That said, I'm not ready to give up on our team, or our season because we didn't beat the bulls on the road and came out flat in a back to back. Maybe I'm just a big sunshiner, but I'm so tickled about where we are in the big picture it is easy to shake a game like this off. We are competing for home court advantage in the playoffs. We have more flexibility to improve our roster than any other team in the league. I'm confident Larry Bird will make a key move at the deadline. I'm so excited for the playoffs and I'll grieve over the losses then.

Let's hope so.

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 10:34 PM
Giving him the ball somewhere under 12 feet out for a change would be a good start. He's best and banging and drawing fouls down low and using that to open up the outside shots and drives to the hole.



For the record Lou has a lower percentage than Tyler has this year. and the FT difference is 79.7 to 47.1 in a season he's better than his career average.

First, he isn't getting the calls as often as he once did. Second, he rarely passes the ball after he gets it down low, so opening up the outside shots and driving lanes isn't that much of an advantage when the ball is in Hansbrough's hands.

Isaac
03-06-2012, 10:37 PM
Roy Hibbert is still WAY too easily shaken and taken out of the game. He starts playing fidgety, taking bad shots, losing rebounds off his hands out of bounds... it just compounds on itself and he gets more and more "aw shucks" about it. It's a song sung many times before. It doesn't win tough games and it certainly isn't "smashmouth".

All of our guys whine too much and get down on themselves too much to be taken seriously as a smash mouth team. Paul George probably whines the least, but it seems like that's because his intensity is totally reliant on everyone else upping their games.

Honestly David West has brought a lot to this team and I like him a lot, but somebody (Brian Shaw?) needs to tell him to man up and stop crying after every foul. It permeates through the team when he's doing that and feeds in to the "poor us" mentality this team starts playing with. He needs to put on a confident face, play tough and physical, encourage teammates and everybody will follow. If he can't do that then he's a bad leader and we won't be better than a 1st round exit.

Too much talent on this team to not go hard on them when they play like that.

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 10:37 PM
Tyler shot 2.8% of our teams' shots tonight.....

That's the problem though isn't it? Supposedly our best player off the bench coming into this season, a possible contender for the 6th man award, only taking 2.8% of the team's shots? Why is Hansbrough taking so few shots? Well because teams know how Tyler balls now so they're able to shut him down, and he has no idea how to counter.

Nuntius
03-06-2012, 10:37 PM
I should clarify what I mean. Our record is not indicative of where we are as a team "right now". In other words, we are not playing at a level where a 23-13 team should play.

I agree with your concerns about the time being. We did suck at rebounding in the last two games and our effort was not on a good level most of the time.

However, the team deserves its record. All of it. No win was handed to them on a silver platter. And no loss was taken away from them due to a blown call. Our record reflects our play.

The Eastern Conference is still a very open one. Of course, the Bulls and the Heat are miles ahead. The teams that are currently battling for 3rd to 6th seed (Orlando, Philadelphia, Indiana, Atlanta) are still very, very streaky and inconsistent. There's no reason to believe that we're a worse team than those 3. We're on par with them.

Sandman21
03-06-2012, 10:38 PM
Free throws (or missing them) killed us tonight, and I'd argue it hurt more than the allowed o-reboundings and Pargo.

D-BONE
03-06-2012, 10:38 PM
I should clarify what I mean. Our record is not indicative of where we are as a team "right now". In other words, we are not playing at a level where a 23-13 team should play. In these two games we saw some really bad defense by our players. We saw our players not attacking the basket. We saw some really poor shot selections. What frustrates me the most is our lack of rebounding these two games, lack of ball movement, Hibbert being bullied by Noah I can somewhat understand but an all star shouldn't be outplayed by Pachulia that was just plain embarrassing.

I saw Phillies game with Chicago and what I saw was intensity. Looking at these past two Pacers game I see lackadaisical.

Also, we've beaten good teams, but when was the last time we beat one? We are improved, we may be good, but we may not be nearly as good as the record indicates. We will only be so if we can get back to winning against top competition.

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 10:40 PM
You'd be smiling too if you played like crap every game but still made the all star team and had enough money to paper your walls with 100 dollar bills.

Your talking about Tyler right? Minus the turnovers, Roy had a pretty solid game tonight. Him, West, and Hill were the three reasons we were in this game at all. Roy doesn't have the highest PER (19.48 - 45th in the NBA) on the entire team by mistake, he hardly has played like "crap" this year let alone every game like you say.

Asher99
03-06-2012, 10:43 PM
First, he isn't getting the calls as often as he once did. Second, he rarely passes the ball after he gets it down low, so opening up the outside shots and driving lanes isn't that much of an advantage when the ball is in Hansbrough's hands.

He gets plenty of call's, he's taken 21 less FT than Danny in way less time and without the advantage of shooting the technical's. They do miss several on him but he's not a star so you can't expect him to get every one like a KD or Kobe.
He passes way more than people want to give him credit for and much of his jump shooting woes are from hesitating to look for a pass many times when he has a shot he can take in rhythm.

BlueNGold
03-06-2012, 10:44 PM
The worst thing about this game? I don't think this team is mentally strong and I don't think that's ever going to change for some of them. They become hesitant and make wrong choices. The problem is, I don't think all of that is due to a lack of experience. I'm talking about Collison and Hibbert in terms of a lack of confidence. They become hesitant and especially Collison makes frantic and poor decisions.

...and even Granger reverts to JOb ball and launches a shot at the beginning of the shot clock on occasion. Danny really needs to take that out of his toolbox for good and throw it in the trash. Time to grow up.

The good? Granger's a tough enough kid and hopefully some of that rubs off on the other guys. They really need it.

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 10:46 PM
That's the problem though isn't it? Supposedly our best player off the bench coming into this season, a possible contender for the 6th man award, only taking 2.8% of the team's shots? Why is Hansbrough taking so few shots? Well because teams know how Tyler balls now so they're able to shut him down, and he has no idea how to counter.

Trust me, teams know how every single player balls on the teams they are about to face, that's nothing new. However, you are right about him having no clue how to counter opposition defense. Hill is and will be our biggest contributor off the bench this year and at this point anything Tyler does "extra" will be a major plus. His shooting percentage is way down from last year, everything else is about the exact same besides him getting a half a steal more this year. He just needs to work on his shot and get it down quick.

PacersRule
03-06-2012, 10:47 PM
I agree with your concerns about the time being. We did suck at rebounding in the last two games and our effort was not on a good level most of the time.

However, the team deserves its record. All of it. No win was handed to them on a silver platter. And no loss was taken away from them due to a blown call. Our record reflects our play.

The Eastern Conference is still a very open one. Of course, the Bulls and the Heat are miles ahead. The teams that are currently battling for 3rd to 6th seed (Orlando, Philadelphia, Indiana, Atlanta) are still very, very streaky and inconsistent. There's no reason to believe that we're a worse team than those 3. We're on par with them.

I try not to be affected by homerism, but in my opinion the Pacers should be better than those three teams ORL, ATL, PHI. The fact that we're not has got me a bit frustrated. If only we could get a legit starting point guard and move DC to the bench...

BlueNGold
03-06-2012, 10:49 PM
Your talking about Tyler right? Minus the turnovers, Roy had a pretty solid game tonight. Him, West, and Hill were the three reasons we were in this game at all. Roy doesn't have the highest PER (19.48 - 45th in the NBA) on the entire team by mistake, he hardly has played like "crap" this year let alone every game like you say.

Tyler's a backup son.

Hibbert is supposedly an all-star C yet he scored a total of 6 points the last two games and couldn't even out play Zaza...their backup center. He folds when the going gets tough and we all know it.

xIndyFan
03-06-2012, 10:56 PM
Sigh :(. Losing to the Hawks without Joe Johnson and Al Harford, while getting out rebounded, and getting abused on the offensive boards. No excuses in this one.


getting outrebounded is becoming a common theme here....


We need a point guard.

even after coming home from the game, the first three posts in the post game thread made me laugh. i still haven't figured out how it's DC's fault that pacers are getting killed on the boards.


. . . Hibbert is supposedly an all-star C yet he scored a total of 6 points the last two games and couldn't even out play Zaza...their backup center. He folds when the going gets tough and we all know it.

don't know if you were at the game or not, but it looked like roy was dead tired. he had heavy feet tonight.

did lou get sick or hurt or kick frank's dog or something. he played some in the first half, but roy was putting in too many minutes tonight.

Asher99
03-06-2012, 10:56 PM
That's the problem though isn't it? Supposedly our best player off the bench coming into this season, a possible contender for the 6th man award, only taking 2.8% of the team's shots? Why is Hansbrough taking so few shots? Well because teams know how Tyler balls now so they're able to shut him down, and he has no idea how to counter.

When he gets the ball as often as other 6th man contenders he scores like they do. He's 12th in the NBA in bench points. But he's 39 shots and 18 points behind 11th then 75 behind 10th and 100+ behind the others in Top-10 with a amazing 221 attempts behind the leagues leader in bench points. As bad as Tyler's percentage is it's not far off many of those players who are in front of him.

immortality
03-06-2012, 10:57 PM
When he gets the ball as often as other 6th man contenders he scores like they do. He's 12th in the NBA in bench points. But he's 39 shots and 18 points behind 11th then 75 behind 10th and 100+ behind the others in Top-10 with a amazing 221 attempts behind the leagues leader in bench points. As bad as Tyler's percentage is it's not far off many of those players who are in front of him.

It's not about the scoring, he is bad at everything else to, in rebounding and defense.

xIndyFan
03-06-2012, 11:01 PM
When he gets the ball as often as other 6th man contenders he scores like they do. He's 12th in the NBA in bench points. But he's 39 shots and 18 points behind 11th then 75 behind 10th and 100+ behind the others in Top-10 with a amazing 221 attempts behind the leagues leader in bench points. As bad as Tyler's percentage is it's not far off many of those players who are in front of him.

tyler is having trouble, especially under the rim. guys can go straight up and block his shot or hit his elbow to throw it off. last few games, tyler seems to be taking his shot a couple of steps outside the block/charge circle. it seems to give him more room. hopefully he can make an adjustment to the way he is being played. probably help if he spent less time complaining about every call and just played through the calls.

BlueNGold
03-06-2012, 11:02 PM
even after coming home from the game, the first three posts in the post game thread made me laugh. i still haven't figured out how it's DC's fault that pacers are getting killed on the boards.



don't know if you were at the game or not, but it looked like roy was dead tired. he had heavy feet tonight.

did lou get sick or hurt or kick frank's dog or something. he played some in the first half, but roy was putting in too many minutes tonight.

He may be tired, but he's also 25 years old and played a total of 24 minutes against Chicago. That should have just been a warm-up for tonight.

But he did play 38 minutes tonight which is his season high...so sure, he was probably beat. Beat in more than one way.

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 11:05 PM
Tyler's a backup son.

Hibbert is supposedly an all-star C yet he scored a total of 6 points the last two games and couldn't even out play Zaza...their backup center. He folds when the going gets tough and we all know it.

I know Tyler's a backup and for damn good reason. What's that matter? He's the one who's played like crap all season long only having three good games all year, Roy has been solid all year with a handful of bad games. Big difference son.

Pacemaker
03-06-2012, 11:10 PM
We need a point guard.

We have point guards ... More importantly we need play-makers at any position.

xIndyFan
03-06-2012, 11:11 PM
He may be tired, but he's also 25 years old and played a total of 24 minutes against Chicago. That should have just been a warm-up for tonight.

But he did play 38 minutes tonight which is his season high...so sure, he was probably beat. Beat in more than one way.

yeah, idk.

hibbert seems to be a 30 mpg guy. if he plays more than that, his effectiveness really drops off.

Ratking
03-06-2012, 11:13 PM
It could be worse: we could be Orlando fans trying to rationalize a double digit loss to the bobcats.

BlueNGold
03-06-2012, 11:17 PM
I know Tyler's a backup and for damn good reason. What's that matter? He's the one who's played like crap all season long only having three good games all year, Roy has been solid all year with a handful of bad games. Big difference son.

Are you kidding? The expectations for Tyler should be about what you expect from AJ Price. IOW, barely serviceable which they are proving to be. In fact, Lou is playing better than Tyler, so even though he's still on my avatar (for now), I'm not defending him.

Hibbert, however, was voted onto the NBA all-star team and proceeds to play like a 3rd string backup C trying to stay in the league.

I wouldn't feel comfortable signing him to a fat contract. Not when he's outplayed by Zaza and he completely folds with pressure whether it's the Chicago game with all that hype or when he faced Marc Gasol...who he knew he was being compared to.

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 11:30 PM
Are you kidding? The expectations for Tyler should be about what you expect from AJ Price. IOW, barely serviceable which they are proving to be. In fact, Lou is playing better than Tyler, so even though he's still on my avatar (for now), I'm not defending him.

Hibbert, however, was voted onto the NBA all-star team and proceeds to play like a 3rd string backup C trying to stay in the league.

I wouldn't feel comfortable signing him to a fat contract. Not when he's outplayed by Zaza and he completely folds with pressure whether it's the Chicago game with all that hype or when he faced Marc Gasol...who he knew he was being compared to.

I get what you are saying but to be fair Roy this year had huge games against Bynum, Jefferson, Monroe, and Howard. It doesn't get any tougher than that. I think he has bad games here and there but tonight was not one of them. He has been one of our most consistent players this year and hasn't missed a single game due to injury his entire NBA career, for a guy 7'2'' that's just rare and special. He is not one to just fold and gets way too much blame when we lose. Why does coach Frank never get any blame? Why have we gone away from inside out and feeding the post? Why did Roy only take 6 shots tonight? If we used Roy properly we win more games, period.

jeffg-body
03-06-2012, 11:32 PM
We are young and are gonna go through rough stretches. Hopefully we can re-focus and get back on the right track. We had a lot of dumb mistakes out there tonight but I don't think it was a lack of effort, more a lack of execution.

xIndyFan
03-06-2012, 11:34 PM
changing the subject some. was it just me or did the officiating really really suck tonight. not saying it was unfair, or the reason the pacers lost the game, but i thought the guys had a really tough night. very inconsistent. lots of 'make-up' calls. lots of getting in the way of the game with pointless calls. seemed like the officials were behind the game, busy calling the last play instead of the current one.

again, not the reason the pacers lost. but it does ruin a good game when the officials officiate that poorly.

vnzla81
03-06-2012, 11:38 PM
We are young and are gonna go through rough stretches. Hopefully we can re-focus and get back on the right track. We had a lot of dumb mistakes out there tonight but I don't think it was a lack of effort, more a lack of execution.

The we "are young" excuse again? :angry:

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 11:40 PM
We are 8-3 when Roy takes at least 13 shots this year and 0-4 when he takes 7 shots or less. (Not going to count the Charlotte game as he only played twenty min in blowout).

PGisthefuture
03-06-2012, 11:40 PM
changing the subject some. was it just me or did the officiating really really suck tonight. not saying it was unfair, or the reason the pacers lost the game, but i thought the guys had a really tough night. very inconsistent. lots of 'make-up' calls. lots of getting in the way of the game with pointless calls. seemed like the officials were behind the game, busy calling the last play instead of the current one.

again, not the reason the pacers lost. but it does ruin a good game when the officials officiate that poorly.

The refs have come up in many threads and not just on this forum. It seems bad this year compared to previous years. Then again, nobody is perfect and even the pros make mistakes.

PGisthefuture
03-06-2012, 11:42 PM
We are 8-3 when Roy takes at least 13 shots this year and 0-4 when he takes 7 shots or less. (Not going to count the Charlotte game as he only played twenty min in blowout).

Yeah, if Roy would have been a bigger factor in the last two games I think we would have seen a different outcome. I don't think we win in Chicago, but Atlanta would have probably been a W.

xIndyFan
03-06-2012, 11:42 PM
The we "are young" excuse again? :angry:

for the last couple of games, yes. maybe not an excuse, more of a explaination. pacers are young. and young players have lots of NBA learnin' to do.

PGisthefuture
03-06-2012, 11:44 PM
for the last couple of games, yes. maybe not an excuse, more of a explaination. pacers are young. and young players have lots of NBA learnin' to do.

They have more experience, but the Bulls and Thunder are pretty young too.

Asher99
03-06-2012, 11:44 PM
It's not about the scoring, he is bad at everything else to, in rebounding and defense.

He's here to score and when he's scoring he picks up the tempo on both sides of the ball, as far as defense goes he's never going to be great but Bird knew that from day one but he's no where as bad as people make him out to be.


tyler is having trouble, especially under the rim. guys can go straight up and block his shot or hit his elbow to throw it off. last few games, tyler seems to be taking his shot a couple of steps outside the block/charge circle. it seems to give him more room. hopefully he can make an adjustment to the way he is being played. probably help if he spent less time complaining about every call and just played through the calls.

He's always going to be blocked some down low that comes with part of the territory with drawing tons of fouls and banging at his size. He's taking more short hooks because that's as close as he's getting the ball. We have totally gotten away from the PnR jumpers around the FT lane that was so golden last year. Our guards always missed him when he gets good post position only to give him the ball 12 feet out with the defender back in solid position, Dominique was talking about how bad it was tonight on the Hawks feed when we was feeding Roy that far out. Also when the poor guy is actually open in the paint we have to miss him over 75% of the time and half the remaining percent is a pass that gets deflected as the guards waited a split second too long on the pass.

I know people get tired of my saying the same stuff but I just wish this week before the deadline we go back to the stuff that has been proven to work and if it fails I will be happy to stop defending him a move on from it. But what works has always worked with him and its so simple and we get away from it far too much, and its also the same thing that happens with Roy when he gets off in these funks.

jeffg-body
03-06-2012, 11:48 PM
The we "are young" excuse again? :angry:

Not really an excuse but a little self reflection. We are what we are and it just is gonna take some time to get that experience. My vision would be that we get home court this year in the playoffs and make it to the second round. We challenge in the second round and fall a little bit short but gain that experience of winning in the playoffs.

xIndyFan
03-06-2012, 11:50 PM
They have more experience, but the Bulls and Thunder are pretty young too.

i don't get your point. is it that another young team with more talent wins more games so the pacers lack of experience doesn't matter. or that young teams are as smart as experienced teams. or something else. please explain, thanx.

Asher99
03-06-2012, 11:50 PM
We are 8-3 when Roy takes at least 13 shots this year and 0-4 when he takes 7 shots or less. (Not going to count the Charlotte game as he only played twenty min in blowout).

3 of those wins he shot 33% or worse

PGisthefuture
03-06-2012, 11:53 PM
i don't get your point. is it that another young team with more talent wins more games so the pacers lack of experience doesn't matter. or that young teams are as smart as experienced teams. or something else. please explain, thanx.

I just don't think that youth is the main problem at this point. We have two veterans in our lineup in D-West and Granger. I agree though, our guys being so young does play into our struggles. Just not sure it's the main problem as much as we need more depth.

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 11:53 PM
3 of those wins he shot 33% or worse

A win is a win right? The touches down low are all that matters, they allow us to get more offense created elsewhere.

Asher99
03-06-2012, 11:56 PM
A win is a win right? The touches down low are all that matters, they allow us to get more offense created elsewhere.

Fair enough

xIndyFan
03-06-2012, 11:59 PM
I just don't think that youth is the main problem at this point. We have two veterans in our lineup in D-West and Granger. I agree though, our guys being so young does play into our struggles. Just not sure it's the main problem as much as we need more depth.

ok, i get that.

not saying youth is the reason, but it is a reason.

i agree that the pacers are talent shy. it looks like a team with 6 NBA guys and that's it.

jmo, but what the pacers still really need is dale davis.

Sookie
03-07-2012, 12:05 AM
The we "are young" excuse again? :angry:

You know what, I didn't watch the game tonight. Sucks that they lost.

Instead, I watched the Big East women's tournament.

The Uconn team is young. They've struggled this season. They're likely to finish the season with more losses than the last four years combined (they have to win the tournament not to) They lost to an unranked opponent, on their home floor (something they haven't done in probably 20 years) the lost the Big East regular season title, something they haven't done in a LONG time (at least 8 years) Notre Dame had beaten them three times in a row, something a Big East opponent hadn't done in 20 years..

They won tonight. :D They beat Notre Dame. They grew up. Instead of not being able to score in the last 8 minutes of the game, 2 players stepped up and scored. Instead of loosening up the defense because they were tired, they got tougher. Instead of letting Notre Dame get offensive rebound after offensive rebound, our little shooting guards (forced to play PF) went in and battled an All American PF.

It was all about maturity. Notre Dame is a significantly more talented team than they are. Not impossible for my girls to beat, better, but still significantly better. They just weren't mentally able to handle those games earlier in the season. They aren't completely developed, so they aren't consistent.

People are all into the here and now. Well I'll tell you something, I've enjoyed watching this Uconn team more than any team in the past probably 8 years (whenever the heck Taurasi's senior season was). Because I've got the patience to understand that young players screw up..and they lose games they aren't supposed to lose. And they struggle to score at the end of games, particularly against better more mature teams. And they aren't consistent.

But when something clicks, and they finally do grow up. That's a heck of a lot more fun than buying a great team. And if this team, as it stands now, gets better and more consistent, and say..makes it to the ECF, that'll be a heck of a lot more fun for everyone who watched them.

Do players on this team have their faults, absolutely. I would never say their only problem is youth and inexperience. But you'd be surprised at the huge difference it makes.

And I've watched it happen for teams at every level. (WCBB, MCBB, WNBA, NBA)

So call it an excuse, enjoy being pessimistic, whatever. This team is talented and good, and much improved from last season - flaws and all.

TheDavisBrothers
03-07-2012, 12:08 AM
did somebody say





<----------------

PGisthefuture
03-07-2012, 12:18 AM
ok, i get that.

not saying youth is the reason, but it is a reason.

i agree that the pacers are talent shy. it looks like a team with 6 NBA guys and that's it.

jmo, but what the pacers still really need is dale davis.

Maybe Kaman could be our Dale Davis? :whoknows:

Pacerized
03-07-2012, 12:25 AM
Maybe Kaman could be our Dale Davis? :whoknows:

I know your joking but with Kaman we win the battle of the boards tonight and this game. Larry needs to make it happen if the price is really just a 2cd.
Either N.O. is dragging this out in hopes of getting more then a 2cd. or Larry is dragging this out in hopes of finding a better long term player for out cap space.

Hibbert
03-07-2012, 12:49 AM
Another random fact. Pacers are 10-2 when Roy Hibbert has 3 or more blocks in a game and 13-3 when Hibbert has 10 or more rebounds in a game. I don't understand why Frank didn't plug Lance into the lineup tonight. Last time against the Hawks he had the best game of his career shooting 5 of 7 for 12 points along with 5 reb, 3 as, and a block and a steal.

Hicks
03-07-2012, 12:53 AM
Probably not possible, but I would like to see us acquire a Crawford/Barbisa type guy, get Kaman, and put Hill at the starting 1.

xIndyFan
03-07-2012, 12:54 AM
Maybe Kaman could be our Dale Davis? :whoknows:

i doubt it. kaman is a terrific player, but what he does and what dale did are about as different as it is for 2 bigs to be.


I know your joking but with Kaman we win the battle of the boards tonight and this game. Larry needs to make it happen if the price is really just a 2cd.
Either N.O. is dragging this out in hopes of getting more then a 2cd. or Larry is dragging this out in hopes of finding a better long term player for out cap space.

if kaman plays, pacers should win. if for no other reason roy doesn't have to play as many minutes.

xIndyFan
03-07-2012, 12:58 AM
Another random fact. Pacers are 10-2 when Roy Hibbert has 3 or more blocks in a game and 13-3 when Hibbert has 10 or more rebounds in a game. I don't understand why Frank didn't plug Lance into the lineup tonight. Last time against the Hawks he had the best game of his career shooting 5 of 7 for 12 points along with 5 reb, 3 as, and a block and a steal.

not sure what vogel was doing tonight. AJ, lou, dahntay all played no time. seemed like they lost franks confidence or something. strange.

vnzla81
03-07-2012, 01:04 AM
Probably not possible, but I would like to see us acquire a Crawford/Barbisa type guy, get Kaman, and put Hill at the starting 1.

DC+Tyler for Felton/Crawford should get it done, maybe throw a second round pick or something.

PGisthefuture
03-07-2012, 01:12 AM
DC+Tyler for Felton/Crawford should get it done, maybe throw a second round pick or something.

This plus Kaman and we'll be scary...

rock747
03-07-2012, 01:29 AM
I feel like everyone talks like we already have Kaman locked up.

MrHale
03-07-2012, 02:11 AM
DC+Tyler for Felton/Crawford should get it done, maybe throw a second round pick or something.

I doubt they even consider it

AesopRockOn
03-07-2012, 02:23 AM
I feel like everyone talks like we already have Kaman locked up.

Breaking News (http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/331/966/kaman1_original.jpg?1328911135): A man who was being kept in a cage inside of Banker's Life Fieldhouse is on the loose. Families are being warned to stay indoors as the very gruff, hairy man is known to have a devastating left hook. An eye witness shared that he was "looking for that guy using my likeness to begin the game threads." Twitpics at Eleven.

Shawne#4
03-07-2012, 02:35 AM
I went to the game tonight and the only two players I thought played well coming out of it were West and Hill. That probably goes for the majority of the board.

The real problem is our point guard play makes a lot of the players look worse than they really are. DC and GH both have a shoot-first court vision mentality, and it drives me nuts. I'll cut Hill some slack since he's a combo guard, but DC has to realize that he's out to put the four other guys in position to score. I've been joking most of the week with my friends about a trade involving Granger and Rondo, but at this point, I honestly wouldn't be against it.

And really, what is up with Roy Hibbert? His effort on boxing out and pulling down rebounds with some hard authority is laughable. Actually, no one on this team pulls down rebounds with some toughness. Hell, let's expand it. No one on this team shows any toughness at all.

I guess I'm just venting, but it was a painful game to watch tonight. This team won't compete with any of the playoff contenders if they're going to play like this every night.

CJ Jones
03-07-2012, 04:56 AM
I missed the game tonight, luckily I forgot to record it. First game I've missed all year. It's probably a good thing though because I would have posted something "negative", and it seems some people have been getting their panties in a bunch over my posts. (yeah not too classy... but I'm smashed :-p)

I just have two questions, then I'll go back to my hole... how did Roy get only 6 shots in 40 minutes? And who was (or wasn't) guarding Pargo?

p.s. Have yourself a Goose Island beer (i prefer Sofie). You'll be glad you did. :cheers:

IndyHoya
03-07-2012, 08:32 AM
I wonder a tad bit about all the criticism of DC. He has pluses and minuses. He is a very decent shooter. He's fast. He generally handles the ball OK (although there were some conceded lapses last night).

His minuses are he's undersized a lot of the time. Sometimes he has a great deal of difficulty defensing the pick and roll (he seems to have a lot of trouble particularly getting around Roy when Roy comes out to hedge or temporarily switches off the pick & roll when DC gets picked). I also question his peripheral vision. Lance, for example, has more (maybe because Lance is taller, maybe because when DC drives he has his head down too much. I dunno). His timing sometimes with his passing is bad (DC's sometimes slow to recognize an open man -- a problem with a lot of guys on the Pacers and not just DC). It's frustrating sometimes to see DC hesitate to dump down to Roy or West or PG, for example when they're open for a couple of instants posting low, and then only belatedly try to make the pass when the defense has already recovered and the momentary window of opportunity has closed and his target is covered up again.

I've also noticed, however, that the Pacers, generally, can't (or don't) fast break. How many times do we pull down a rebound, outlet to DC, and then have DC speed upcourt only to be the only Pacers player on the opponent side of the midline and then facing a 1 on 2 or a 1 on 3? DC then invariably does the only sane thing - circle back and wait for the rest of the team to come up, and get into a half-court set. It happens over and over again - like Groundhog Day.

We're simply a pretty slow team and we don't fast break well and your point guard can't pick up an assist on occasions when there's simply no one up there to pass to. Then we're always faced with a half-court situation. Roy moves up, sets the pick and DC then is expected to dribble off the pick and make something happen. But usually, then, he's only got the choice of attacking the basket as an undersized guard taking on all the opposition's big men inside (which DC does or tries to do sometimes - usually with poor results) or stopping and taking the pull up J (which he usually opts for, often with pretty good results) or kicking out to someone outside (which he opts for a lot too - usually to Danny or PG (who are typically behind the 3-point stripe and not cutting to the hoop). About the only time we fast break is when we generate a defensive turnover. There's nothing about our offensive scheme geared to a point guard running fast breaks.

I guess what I'm saying here is that DC doesn't dole out a lot of assists because of his own limitations sometimes. But also because we don't or can't seem to run much. We're really not very good in offensive transition. I kind of wonder sometimes if a Rashon Rondo would be doling out many assists if he (and not DC) was playing for our team.

Mackey_Rose
03-07-2012, 08:42 AM
When he gets the ball as often as other 6th man contenders he scores like they do. He's 12th in the NBA in bench points. But he's 39 shots and 18 points behind 11th then 75 behind 10th and 100+ behind the others in Top-10 with a amazing 221 attempts behind the leagues leader in bench points. As bad as Tyler's percentage is it's not far off many of those players who are in front of him.

First of all, continually beating this drum of trying to force feed shots, to a scorer who is so woefully inefficient, will never make sense. It is ridiculous. Maybe if he was able to make more shots, he'd be getting more shots. As it is now, the fewer attempts he's getting, the better it is for the team.

If he was able to help out in other ways beyond scoring, the minutes he's getting would be justifiable. Unfortunately, that is far from the case. Right now, Vogel being forced to stick with Tyler in such a big role, is becoming a real issue. He has done nothing to deserve the rotation spot he's been given. Vogel just doesn't have any other options. I hope Bird is able to alleviate that issue by adding a big man in the next 2 weeks.

Second of all, where are you getting these numbers? You'd be well served to actually post a link to show some proof of your arguments. As best as I can tell, this argument that you continue to harp on, not only has no basis, but the evidence you are using to back it up, isn't even accurate. Are you just making these figures up?

You're giving all of us who like to use statistical measures, in conjunction with observation, a bad name.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=Y&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=gs&c1comp=lt&c1val=10&c2stat=g&c2comp=gt&c2val=20&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g

Right now, Tyler is 16th in bench scoring. The leader, James Harden is taking about 2.6 more shots per game. Those additional attempts are netting him about 7.3 more points per game. Perhaps the reason why he is getting more attempts, is due to the fact that he is so much more efficient. If Tyler was able to score like Harden, nobody would have any issue if he was getting a couple more shots every game.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=gs&c2comp=lt&c2val=10&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg_pct

Percentage-wise, he's 53rd out of the 61 qualified bench players. 53rd out of 61. Again, why should we try to force shots his way when he makes so few of them?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2012&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=gs&c2comp=lt&c2val=10&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=efg_pct

He is also one of only 11 of these players who have not attempted a single 3 pointer. When you factor in where he's getting his shots from as a power forward, he is 58th out of 61 in eFG%. He's not just slightly behind the league leaders off the bench. He's nearly the worst.

Mackey_Rose
03-07-2012, 09:06 AM
I've also noticed, however, that the Pacers, generally, can't (or don't) fast break. How many times do we pull down a rebound, outlet to DC, and then have DC speed upcourt only to be the only Pacers player on the opponent side of the midline and then facing a 1 on 2 or a 1 on 3? DC then invariably does the only sane thing - circle back and wait for the rest of the team to come up, and get into a half-court set. It happens over and over again - like Groundhog Day.

We're simply a pretty slow team and we don't fast break well and your point guard can't pick up an assist on occasions when there's simply no one up there to pass to. Then we're always faced with a half-court situation. Roy moves up, sets the pick and DC then is expected to dribble off the pick and make something happen. But usually, then, he's only got the choice of attacking the basket as an undersized guard taking on all the opposition's big men inside (which DC does or tries to do sometimes - usually with poor results) or stopping and taking the pull up J (which he usually opts for, often with pretty good results) or kicking out to someone outside (which he opts for a lot too - usually to Danny or PG (who are typically behind the 3-point stripe and not cutting to the hoop).

I guess what I'm saying here is that DC doesn't dole out a lot of assists because of his own limitations sometimes. But also because we don't run much. We're really not very good in transition. I kind of wonder sometimes if a Rashon Rondo would be doling out many assists if he (and not DC) was playing for our team.

I think this is an error of cause and effect. The reason we're not very good in transition, is largely because DC is really bad in transition. He's bad for a variety of reasons, but they all essentially fall back on the same overarching theme: Darren Collison has a low basketball IQ.

He rarely makes the right play in the open court, and when he does it is almost never on time. He almost always passes it far too late, and when he doesn't, he frequently passes it too early. Obviously, more often than not, he doesn't even look to pass. He'd rather take the ball, on his own, into a wad of defenders and try to get his own layup. Because he's such a poor passer on the break, that's probably the best option really.

He never makes an effort to get the ball into the middle of the court. He always tries to take it up one of the alleys outside the lane. This is a major violation of basketball 101. By doing this, he allows defenders to multiple players and shut down our fast break.

There was a good example last night that epitomized the DC-led fast breaks all too well.

The first one was an example of him passing too early, we had a three-on-one with Collison leading the break down the right hand side. Again, why he didn't try to get to the middle is beyond me, because by doing this he forced Paul George to fill the lane in the middle of the court, and Danny Granger was on the left. I can't remember who the lone Hawks' defender was, but he was able to effectively guard all 3 Pacers due to the way Collison refuses to use the middle of the court.

He never made the defender commit to him, and he dumped it back to George trailing down the middle. He was able to draw a foul and get to the line, but it should have been an easy layup if he had drawn the defender to him before passing it. I don't remember if he made both free throws or not, but it was an absolutely awful fast break, even if we got the 2 points out of it anyway.

graphic-er
03-07-2012, 09:07 AM
in the 4th qtr last night we seen Tyler Hansbrough actually excute a baseline drive where he sealed off his defender giving him an open baby hook about 5 feet from the basket only to see him instead hop step into another defender, hesitate, giving his original defender time to recover and then of course he gets his shot blocked in typical flailing of the arms fashion.

After seeing that I am really unsure if this guy knows what he is doing out there.

Justin Tyme
03-07-2012, 10:04 AM
Arguably neither one is a true PG, but at least Jack brings leadership, passion, moxie and consistent scoring ability. DC IMO hasn't brought squat in terms of consistency in any area.

At this point you have a bundle of cap space an nobody untouchable. I'd be very active seeing what's out there unless there is a very quick turn around.

The team is not bad, but it's not clear how good they are. And I don't think it has the pieces to develop into ECF/NBAF contenders even with more seasons involved. So there's no reason not to see if some of that reshaping process can't start now.


You basically said in a post I put together last night in a rebuttal, but by error deleted while posting it. I was too tired to do it again.

Collision has no leadership abilities, none. He couldn't lead a group of starving homeless people to the dinner table.

He has little if any court vision. He doesn't understand when to pass the ball to others.

Collision doesn't have Jack's tuffness nor his fire.

Jack is bigger and stronger than Collision, but not as quick.

Jack plays better "D". He can get physical and Collision can't.

Since leaving the Pacers Jack has become a better player. I haven't seen Collision get better. I know umpteen coaches in his short career.

Viewing both players stats they shoot 43% FG, Collison has the better 3 pt %, where Jack has the better FT%. Jack PPG is 14.5 and Collision PPG is 11. Jack asts are 1 ast higher than Collison, and a half reb higher. "It's the things previously stated that really makes Jack the better PG."

Jack isn't the long term answer, but I feel he is the better answer at the present time. I'd love to have D'will but then there is reality. Jack's contract is only another year at 5 mil. 5 mil for a starting PG not on a rookie contract is extremely reasonable. 5 mil is reasonable for a "good quality" b/u PG that procduces like Jack does.

I brought up Jack b/c Kaman is a player I'd like to see Bird acquire, and while he's doing so why not Jack as well? It's not like the Pacers couldn't use a fresh approach at PG.

Justin Tyme
03-07-2012, 10:14 AM
Free throws (or missing them) killed us tonight, and I'd argue it hurt more than the allowed o-reboundings and Pargo.


Yes, it hurt. If the Pacers had hit 60% of their missed FT last night they would have won. But at the same time letting Pargo shoot 3's, not playing "D" the paint, poor rebing, poor shot selection, and not getting loose balls didn't help either.

Justin Tyme
03-07-2012, 10:18 AM
Your talking about Tyler right? Minus the turnovers, Roy had a pretty solid game tonight. Him, West, and Hill were the three reasons we were in this game at all. Roy doesn't have the highest PER (19.48 - 45th in the NBA) on the entire team by mistake, he hardly has played like "crap" this year let alone every game like you say.

But 2 straight poorly played games against good teams doesn't bode well and gives credence to his disappearing.

Justin Tyme
03-07-2012, 10:31 AM
You know what, I didn't watch the game tonight. Sucks that they lost.

Instead, I watched the Big East women's tournament.

The Uconn team is young. They've struggled this season. They're likely to finish the season with more losses than the last four years combined (they have to win the tournament not to) They lost to an unranked opponent, on their home floor (something they haven't done in probably 20 years) the lost the Big East regular season title, something they haven't done in a LONG time (at least 8 years) Notre Dame had beaten them three times in a row, something a Big East opponent hadn't done in 20 years..

They won tonight. :D They beat Notre Dame. They grew up. Instead of not being able to score in the last 8 minutes of the game, 2 players stepped up and scored. Instead of loosening up the defense because they were tired, they got tougher. Instead of letting Notre Dame get offensive rebound after offensive rebound, our little shooting guards (forced to play PF) went in and battled an All American PF.

It was all about maturity. Notre Dame is a significantly more talented team than they are. Not impossible for my girls to beat, better, but still significantly better. They just weren't mentally able to handle those games earlier in the season. They aren't completely developed, so they aren't consistent.

People are all into the here and now. Well I'll tell you something, I've enjoyed watching this Uconn team more than any team in the past probably 8 years (whenever the heck Taurasi's senior season was). Because I've got the patience to understand that young players screw up..and they lose games they aren't supposed to lose. And they struggle to score at the end of games, particularly against better more mature teams. And they aren't consistent.

But when something clicks, and they finally do grow up. That's a heck of a lot more fun than buying a great team. And if this team, as it stands now, gets better and more consistent, and say..makes it to the ECF, that'll be a heck of a lot more fun for everyone who watched them.

Do players on this team have their faults, absolutely. I would never say their only problem is youth and inexperience. But you'd be surprised at the huge difference it makes.

And I've watched it happen for teams at every level. (WCBB, MCBB, WNBA, NBA)

So call it an excuse, enjoy being pessimistic, whatever. This team is talented and good, and much improved from last season - flaws and all.


I like your new avater. Not sure what it is or represents, but it's nice.

joeyd
03-07-2012, 10:51 AM
I think this is an error of cause and effect. The reason we're not very good in transition, is largely because DC is really bad in transition. He's bad for a variety of reasons, but they all essentially fall back on the same overarching theme: Darren Collison has a low basketball IQ.

He rarely makes the right play in the open court, and when he does it is almost never on time. He almost always passes it far too late, and when he doesn't, he frequently passes it too early. Obviously, more often than not, he doesn't even look to pass. He'd rather take the ball, on his own, into a wad of defenders and try to get his own layup. Because he's such a poor passer on the break, that's probably the best option really.

I'm not sure yet whether it's a poor basketball IQ, his actual ability to see over players, as mentioned above, or whether it's just poor court "vision." It just seems that at least a few times each game, he has no aptitude in seeing the development of plays.

joeyd
03-07-2012, 10:57 AM
I guess what I'm saying here is that DC doesn't dole out a lot of assists because of his own limitations sometimes. But also because we don't or can't seem to run much. We're really not very good in offensive transition. I kind of wonder sometimes if a Rashon Rondo would be doling out many assists if he (and not DC) was playing for our team.

I think this is a good point, and one that ultimately may have been or is a deciding factor in a lack of action on the part of Bird in moving to get a Rondo or even Nash.

Mackey_Rose
03-07-2012, 11:04 AM
I'm not sure yet whether it's a poor basketball IQ, his actual ability to see over players, as mentioned above, or whether it's just poor court "vision." It just seems that at least a few times each game, he has no aptitude in seeing the development of plays.

Wouldn't you say that is a pretty major part of basketball IQ though?

I'd argue that seeing how plays develop, and being able to anticipate what is going to happen ahead of time, is the main function of a basketball IQ.

joeyd
03-07-2012, 11:21 AM
Wouldn't you say that is a pretty major part of basketball IQ though?

I'd argue that seeing how plays develop, and being able to anticipate what is going to happen ahead of time, is the main function of a basketball IQ.

Hmmm. Maybe. But in academia at least, all the "book-learned" intelligence in the world won't help you if you cannot apply it, and some people simply can't. I have seen very "smart" people do poorly on IQ tests which really evaluate logic and application.

I guess I'd argue that in the case of basketball, you can anticipate, and I guess that has to do with basketball IQ, but court vision has more to do with dealing with the actual dynamics of the game in real time as they are developing.

Nuntius
03-07-2012, 11:29 AM
I try not to be affected by homerism, but in my opinion the Pacers should be better than those three teams ORL, ATL, PHI. The fact that we're not has got me a bit frustrated. If only we could get a legit starting point guard and move DC to the bench...

The Pacers shouldn't be better than Atl, Phi and Orl. At least, not this year. We should be better than them next year. This year we're roughly on par and all we need to do is to beat on them and advance to the 2nd round.

Dgreenwell3
03-07-2012, 11:42 AM
All is lost!
People I feel Like you guys dont always watch the games....DC wasn't the problem, we got abused on the boards...you dont reinvent the game, you get abused on the boards like we did, you aren't going to win.

Nuntius
03-07-2012, 11:53 AM
All is lost!
People I feel Like you guys dont always watch the games....DC wasn't the problem, we got abused on the boards...you dont reinvent the game, you get abused on the boards like we did, you aren't going to win.

True but DC is going to get the blame anyway on this board. Hell, I usually dislike shot first PGs but this board has made me a pretty hardcore defender of DC :p

Dgreenwell3
03-07-2012, 11:56 AM
True but DC is going to get the blame anyway on this board. Hell, I usually dislike shot first PGs but this board has made me a pretty hardcore defender of DC :p

Yea...people go way too far...Paul george could get abused for the entire game and the story would be "DC WHY CANT YOU PASS?"

Justin Tyme
03-07-2012, 12:09 PM
All is lost!
People I feel Like you guys dont always watch the games....DC wasn't the problem, we got abused on the boards...you dont reinvent the game,

you get abused on the boards like we did, you aren't going to win.


Really??

Last niight Houston 57 rebs, Boston 38 rebs. Houston has a plus 19 rebs and "Boston wins".

There were numerous contributing factors as to why the Pacers lost and being out REB'D was just one of them.


How could you watch the game and miss the following?

Poor PG play from Collision

Poor shot selection

Poor ball movement... contributing to only 13 asts

Poor "D" in the paint

Poor bench contribution

Little to no passion from the players

Hibbert disappearance... again.

10 missed FT

Allowing reserve players Johnson and Pargo to have the games they had ... 27 yo D-League Ivan Johnson!

Ace E.Anderson
03-07-2012, 12:19 PM
Really??

Last niight Houston 57 rebs, Boston 38 rebs. Houston has a plus 19 rebs and "Boston wins".

There were numerous contributing factors as to why the Pacers lost and being out REB'D was just one of them.


How could you watch the game and miss the following?

Poor PG play from Collision

Poor shot selection

Poor ball movement... contributing to only 13 asts

Poor "D" in the paint

Poor bench contribution

Little to no passion from the players

Hibbert disappearance... again.

10 missed FT

Allowing reserve players Johnson and Pargo to have the games they had ... 27 yo D-League Ivan Johnson!

That may be our biggest problem right now. We aren't playing with any passion, with any force. We are just going through the motions and letting teams take the fight to us.

xIndyFan
03-07-2012, 12:20 PM
All is lost!
People I feel Like you guys dont always watch the games....DC wasn't the problem, we got abused on the boards...you dont reinvent the game, you get abused on the boards like we did, you aren't going to win.


True but DC is going to get the blame anyway on this board. Hell, I usually dislike shot first PGs but this board has made me a pretty hardcore defender of DC :p

this, well these to be more accurate.

DC was not the reason the paces lost to the bulls and the hawks. rebounding and interior defense were. pacer bigs, roy and david, are slow, ordinary rebounders and average defenders. the NBA smart guys have figured that out. vogel has done a nice job of using paul and danny to supplement them defensively. it has caused problems with giving up outside shooting because of over commitment to help defense. pacers don't run well because they don't rebound well. this lack of interior strength and athleticism is the root cause of pacer problems. not DC's lack of vision or danny's shot selection or tyler's funk or whatever the scapegoat de jour is. this team still needs dale davis.

imbtyler
03-07-2012, 12:39 PM
in the 4th qtr last night we seen Tyler Hansbrough actually excute a baseline drive where he sealed off his defender giving him an open baby hook about 5 feet from the basket only to see him instead hop step into another defender, hesitate, giving his original defender time to recover and then of course he gets his shot blocked in typical flailing of the arms fashion.

After seeing that I am really unsure if this guy knows what he is doing out there.

I didn't see the game, but the description of this play just proves it. Hansbrough's losing his NBA mentality, if he ever actually had a grasp on it. After he pump fakes once, maybe twice, any half-decent NBA defender knows he's just going to keep faking. Then, the Hansflail. That trick may work in college, but that's why it's called NBA mentality. It's the number one reason I predicted he wouldn't be a great player in the transition, because he can't get past his limited skillset. He hopsteps, hesitates, pump fakes (x3), and gets blocked or picked.

Workout plan for Hans: get in the gym, gain some muscle, get on BoingVert, work on your vertical, build some athleticism, learn how to dunk, remember how to rebound, get stronger, learn new moves in the post, and start playing like Blake Griffin like we all know you can. /green

Also, he let an incredibly easy rebound get away to Ronnie Brewer vs. Bulls, and that, along with the rest of his recent errors and (lack of) performance, has expressed to me that he can't play consistently at the level we need him to be playing. He's lost his whole

That's why our back-up 4/5 position should be a much stronger, more athletic, young versatile player, with a lot of potential. A player that we probably won't get in free agency or trades. Only the draft could yield a player that I would be interested in, and would support (within reason). Of course, there are players already playing who fit the bill, but that just goes to say that some draft prospects this year already seem to have more NBA mentality than Hansbrough (jus' sayin').

By the way, I'm not a Hansbrough Hater; I've gained more faith in him lately, but he's just not performing up to our necessary standards. It's a simple fact.

90'sNBARocked
03-07-2012, 04:37 PM
You know what, I didn't watch the game tonight. Sucks that they lost.

Instead, I watched the Big East women's tournament.

The Uconn team is young. They've struggled this season. They're likely to finish the season with more losses than the last four years combined (they have to win the tournament not to) They lost to an unranked opponent, on their home floor (something they haven't done in probably 20 years) the lost the Big East regular season title, something they haven't done in a LONG time (at least 8 years) Notre Dame had beaten them three times in a row, something a Big East opponent hadn't done in 20 years..

They won tonight. :D They beat Notre Dame. They grew up. Instead of not being able to score in the last 8 minutes of the game, 2 players stepped up and scored. Instead of loosening up the defense because they were tired, they got tougher. Instead of letting Notre Dame get offensive rebound after offensive rebound, our little shooting guards (forced to play PF) went in and battled an All American PF.

It was all about maturity. Notre Dame is a significantly more talented team than they are. Not impossible for my girls to beat, better, but still significantly better. They just weren't mentally able to handle those games earlier in the season. They aren't completely developed, so they aren't consistent.

People are all into the here and now. Well I'll tell you something, I've enjoyed watching this Uconn team more than any team in the past probably 8 years (whenever the heck Taurasi's senior season was). Because I've got the patience to understand that young players screw up..and they lose games they aren't supposed to lose. And they struggle to score at the end of games, particularly against better more mature teams. And they aren't consistent.

But when something clicks, and they finally do grow up. That's a heck of a lot more fun than buying a great team. And if this team, as it stands now, gets better and more consistent, and say..makes it to the ECF, that'll be a heck of a lot more fun for everyone who watched them.

Do players on this team have their faults, absolutely. I would never say their only problem is youth and inexperience. But you'd be surprised at the huge difference it makes.

And I've watched it happen for teams at every level. (WCBB, MCBB, WNBA, NBA)

So call it an excuse, enjoy being pessimistic, whatever. This team is talented and good, and much improved from last season - flaws and all.

Stop It!!

Sunshine of the year poster award already given out :)

serious, I like your thought, but as the Pacers have played well, expectations will increase. I know part of being a young team is inconsistency, however , Roy has no excuse, he has been here long enough and cant blame it on the coaches anymore

xBulletproof
03-07-2012, 04:48 PM
I don't get it, honestly. Last year we won 37 games and this year we could surpass that with 16 less games being played. That's a huge improvement. We should be excited this year at the improvement we've made, but most of what we get is complaining and whining that we aren't the Miami Heat.

If anyone truthfully expected a 1 year jump from fringe playoff team to legit contender that fast then you're going to be disappointed a lot because that's just not realistic. Right now in a normal 82 game season we would be on pace for 51 wins. That's a 14 win improvement above the year before and that's huge.

Some people just aren't ever happy.

Sookie
03-07-2012, 05:03 PM
Stop It!!

Sunshine of the year poster award already given out :)

serious, I like your thought, but as the Pacers have played well, expectations will increase. I know part of being a young team is inconsistency, however , Roy has no excuse, he has been here long enough and cant blame it on the coaches anymore

See, that's just it. That's why I'm not concerned.

We know that every player on this team is capable of playing really well. Even the whipping boys.

And let me get off track there for a bit. People need to stop with this "DC isn't a starter" nonsense. He's not perfect. He's not an all star, but he sure as heck has had a good season. When we've won games, we've had good point guard play - and we are 9 games over .500. DC isn't perfect, but he's been pretty good. He's allowed crappy games too. They all are going to have them.

I do think this team needs to get back to their "smash mouth" blue collar attitude. But they are just "learning their way"

We've seen them beat teams they "shouldn't" beat. So yea, you can put more expectations on them if you like, or you could understand that they were just playing on their high - showing us what they are capable of - but not ready to show us consistency yet.

vnzla81
03-07-2012, 05:45 PM
I don't get it, honestly. Last year we won 37 games and this year we could surpass that with 16 less games being played. That's a huge improvement. We should be excited this year at the improvement we've made, but most of what we get is complaining and whining that we aren't the Miami Heat.

If anyone truthfully expected a 1 year jump from fringe playoff team to legit contender that fast then you're going to be disappointed a lot because that's just not realistic. Right now in a normal 82 game season we would be on pace for 51 wins. That's a 14 win improvement above the year before and that's huge.

Some people just aren't ever happy.

Let's just celebrate then, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............ we dit it, thank you baby Jesus ..........



:pepper: :pepper: :rockon: :pineapple: :carrot: :rock: :rock: :apple: :fireworks: :fireworks: :fireworks: :dancingsager:

Peck
03-07-2012, 06:58 PM
I don't get it, honestly. Last year we won 37 games and this year we could surpass that with 16 less games being played. That's a huge improvement. We should be excited this year at the improvement we've made, but most of what we get is complaining and whining that we aren't the Miami Heat.

If anyone truthfully expected a 1 year jump from fringe playoff team to legit contender that fast then you're going to be disappointed a lot because that's just not realistic. Right now in a normal 82 game season we would be on pace for 51 wins. That's a 14 win improvement above the year before and that's huge.

Some people just aren't ever happy.

That is taking our record as a whole, which is fine, but IMO unrealistic.

You look at the last month and you are just an above .500% team and you have not beaten a team with at least a .500% record in the past 6 attempts and for the season your record vs. the .500% teams is 8 wins & 9 losses.

I think sadly that we are trending down.

We currently sit in 5th. However we are only 1/2 game ahead of the Hawks and they have the tie breaker. Going further we are only 3 games ahead of the Celtics for the 7th spot and only 5.5 games ahead of the Knicks for the 8th spot.

Frankly battling for the 7th or 8th seed is not acceptable to me at this point. If that is how we would have started off the year, sure. But I can't say that playing the first half of the season as a top tier team and then the second half of the season as a middle or even bottom tier team thrills me. I would rather go roaring into the playoffs with home court instead of trying to just stay alive.

Fortunately we have a cushion right now, but this current 9 game swing could be down right disastrous.

Nuntius
03-07-2012, 07:43 PM
We currently sit in 5th. However we are only 1/2 game ahead of the Hawks and they have the tie breaker. Going further we are only 3 games ahead of the Celtics for the 7th spot and only 5.5 games ahead of the Knicks for the 8th spot.

Frankly battling for the 7th or 8th seed is not acceptable to me at this point.

We are only 1/2 game ahead of the Hawks but we also are only 1/2 game behind of the Magic.

Peck, I know that the team is not looking sharp enough as of late. The loss against the Hawks had me worried as well (just like the loss against the Cavaliers earlier in the season). It's logical and normal to be worried.

But let's not act like we're battling for the 7th or 8th seed. We're not. At least not yet. If we end up battling for the 7th/8th seed then count me disappointed and panicky as well.