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vnzla81
03-05-2012, 10:29 PM
Yep I was afraid this was going to happen after playing a bunch of cup cake teams, let's hope they bring their A game tomorrow.

TMJ31
03-05-2012, 10:30 PM
Well. We played damn well in the first half.

I know EVERY media outlet is going to talk about how poorly Rose shot in the half and how he exploded in the 2nd, but honestly a lot of that had to do with our defense.

As to WHY we came out so timid and weak in the 3rd quarter? I have no idea. It is frustrating, confusing and disappointing. There's no getting around that.

But at the same time, we again proved that when we are on our game we can stop these guys. I think this one particular game, we let all the "hype" and trash talk get to us negatively instead of letting it fuel us.

We've only just barely tasted the playoffs, we don't really have any "rivals" to speak of (prior to now)... So this whole "Can't wait till we see them again" mentality is something we are just now facing for the first time.

Frankly, I think it's good for us in the long term that this happened. It should hopefully show our guys that if we are going to get caught up in this media bickering shenanigans, that we need to be ready to come out and absolutely stomp on the other teams throats.

We didn't do that tonight. But you can be damn sure that we now realize THAT mistake, and hopefully at the very least the effort and intention will be there from now on in these types of games.

Still 10 games over .500!
:gopacers:

Shade
03-05-2012, 10:31 PM
Still time to make a move before the trade deadline.

Captain Kaman?

LoneGranger33
03-05-2012, 10:31 PM
5th place in the East!

ksuttonjr76
03-05-2012, 10:33 PM
Honestly, we need to put blood and hot sauce in Hibbert's game day meals.

PGisthefuture
03-05-2012, 10:33 PM
Still time to make a move before the trade deadline.

Captain Kaman?

Anybody saying this team doesn't need to make a move is kidding themselves... If you are content with beating the teams we are supposed to beat then we don't need to. I for one am not content with it...

pwee31
03-05-2012, 10:33 PM
5th place in the East!

Still 3rd thanks to the loss column

LoneGranger33
03-05-2012, 10:34 PM
I will never forget this game, but you can bet your *** I'm going to try.

Pacer Fan
03-05-2012, 10:34 PM
Danny 4-12 fg
West 4-11 fg
Hibbert 1-6 fg
Collison 0-6 fg
Hans 1-6 fg
Price 1-5 fg

Total 11-46 fg

out rebounded 60-32

Ace E.Anderson
03-05-2012, 10:35 PM
Well. We played damn well in the first half.

I know EVERY media outlet is going to talk about how poorly Rose shot in the half and how he exploded in the 2nd, but honestly a lot of that had to do with our defense.

As to WHY we came out so timid and weak in the 3rd quarter? I have no idea. It is frustrating, confusing and disappointing. There's no getting around that.

But at the same time, we again proved that when we are on our game we can stop these guys. I think this one particular game, we let all the "hype" and trash talk get to us negatively instead of letting it fuel us.

We've only just barely tasted the playoffs, we don't really have any "rivals" to speak of (prior to now)... So this whole "Can't wait till we see them again" mentality is something we are just now facing for the first time.

Frankly, I think it's good for us in the long term that this happened. It should hopefully show our guys that if we are going to get caught up in this media bickering shenanigans, that we need to be ready to come out and absolutely stomp on the other teams throats.

We didn't do that tonight. But you can be damn sure that we now realize THAT mistake, and hopefully at the very least the effort and intention will be there from now on in these types of games.

Still 10 games over .500!
:gopacers:

NOTHING can is good about being blown out by another team. This is the 5th time we've been embarressed by a good team. It's not a "live and learn" situation. You either show up to play, or you dont. We didnt in this particular game, and we are starting to make a habit of NOT playing well against good teams.

Hoop
03-05-2012, 10:36 PM
5th place in the East!
I go only by losses, only thing that matters, so we are still 3rd. Games that haven't been played yet, mean nothing.

Hoop
03-05-2012, 10:37 PM
Danny 4-12 fg
West 4-11 fg
Hibbert 1-6 fg
Collison 0-6 fg
Hans 1-6 fg
Price 1-5 fg

Total 11-46 fg

out rebounded 60-32
Man, that is ugly, and Granger started out 3-4. :blush:

PacerPride33
03-05-2012, 10:38 PM
Man I hate the bulls

vnzla81
03-05-2012, 10:38 PM
Still time to make a move before the trade deadline.

Captain Kaman?

Even if we had Kaman I don't think we win this game, not saying that I don't want him by the way, I just think we need more.

Unclebuck
03-05-2012, 10:38 PM
I thought the Pacers played a solid first half, good enough to beat most teams. The bulls played a first half that was decent, but not with anything near their intensity they bring against the top teams. They brought it in the second half. They played at playoff intensity and that was just too much for the Pacers

vnzla81
03-05-2012, 10:40 PM
NOTHING can is good about being blown out by another team. This is the 5th time we've been embarressed by a good team. It's not a "live and learn" situation. You either show up to play, or you dont. We didnt in this particular game, and we are starting to make a habit of NOT playing well against good teams.

:thankyou:

pwee31
03-05-2012, 10:40 PM
Anybody saying this team doesn't need to make a move is kidding themselves... If you are content with beating the teams we are supposed to beat then we don't need to. I for one am not content with it...

I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that a move needs to be made. The disagreement is the type of move.

There are those wanting to essentially take a gamble with chemistry and move a combination of Collison, Hibbert, or Granger.

And there are those who would like to simply add another piece or 2 to add depth, like a Kaman, Mayo or Crawford, with giving up a key piece.

I think tonight was only one game, and a really bad 2nd half. No need to panic though, just shows room for improvement

jeffg-body
03-05-2012, 10:40 PM
This was only one game, I am not gonna jump to any conclusions about making changes to our core group of guys. We played one of the best teams in the NBA tonight and played well for a half of the game. I look at this as a game that they were supposed to win and they came out and did that. Let's see how things go up until the trade deadline. A wise man told me "Never get too far up because of a win or too far down because of a loss, just focus on the next game".

TheDavisBrothers
03-05-2012, 10:43 PM
Call me crazy but for this year, I'm content with having home court and winning just the first round games, and with this team we can easily do that. I mean seriously how many sub .500 teams become legit title contenders the next year? I'm cool with 23 and 13...

Sookie
03-05-2012, 10:47 PM
NOTHING can is good about being blown out by another team. This is the 5th time we've been embarressed by a good team. It's not a "live and learn" situation. You either show up to play, or you dont. We didnt in this particular game, and we are starting to make a habit of NOT playing well against good teams.

Orlando's been blown out 4 times
Dallas 4 times
Bulls 3 times

I could probably go further. Teams get blown out, it happens.

We were overexcited, they were extremely focused, and they are one of the best teams in the league.

We can beat them, but we have to play well. We didn't play well, at all.

no need to panic, no need to throw anyone (coughHibbertcough) under the bus.

We've beat this team at home before, we can do it again. We just weren't mentally prepared for it tonight. And with a young team, that's going to happen.

The Pacers aren't building their team by collecting battle tested assets. They are building their team through the draft and collecting young guys...which means they have to experience losing and becoming mentally tough right now. I think they're doing a darn good job, personally, regardless of the results of tonight.

TheDon
03-05-2012, 10:48 PM
We played one of the best teams in the NBA tonight and played well for a half of the game. ".

can you tell me where they keep the moral victory stat in the overall team records :confused:

Mackey_Rose
03-05-2012, 10:50 PM
The only thing less surprising than getting our asses handed to us tonight, was the 6 game win streak that preceded it.

We better win tomorrow, if we don't want this month to start off very ugly.

PacerPride33
03-05-2012, 10:53 PM
What happened to Hans this year?? Seemed ready to be a true 6th man contender and would make a bigger impact this year. He used to own boozer

Suaveness
03-05-2012, 10:55 PM
I think it's time to break up this team right now. Pathetic. If you can't even beat the Bulls, you should just give up.

doctor-h
03-05-2012, 10:56 PM
Orlando's been blown out 4 times
Dallas 4 times
Bulls 3 times

I could probably go further. Teams get blown out, it happens.

We were overexcited, they were extremely focused, and they are one of the best teams in the league.

We can beat them, but we have to play well. We didn't play well, at all.

no need to panic, no need to throw anyone (coughHibbertcough) under the bus.

We've beat this team at home before, we can do it again. We just weren't mentally prepared for it tonight. And with a young team, that's going to happen.

The Pacers aren't building their team by collecting battle tested assets. They are building their team through the draft and collecting young guys...which means they have to experience losing and becoming mentally tough right now. I think they're doing a darn good job, personally, regardless of the results of tonight.

And by the time they develope the young guys the other young guys will move on. Excuses, Excuses. If you can't be mentally prepared to play that game then you will never be mentally prepared. Being mentally prepared has nothing to do with being young. Execution might. Derrick Rose played one good quarter and we got blown out.

TheDavisBrothers
03-05-2012, 10:57 PM
I think it's time to break up this team right now. Pathetic. If you can't even beat the Bulls, you should just give up.

I'm assuming sarcasm, but with your avatar I'm not certain, looks kinda gloomy

immortality
03-05-2012, 10:58 PM
NOTHING can is good about being blown out by another team. This is the 5th time we've been embarressed by a good team. It's not a "live and learn" situation. You either show up to play, or you dont. We didnt in this particular game, and we are starting to make a habit of NOT playing well against good teams.

Ummm, we are also 5th in the league with a record that is 8-9 against teams .500.

jeffg-body
03-05-2012, 10:58 PM
can you tell me where they keep the moral victory stat in the overall team records :confused:

There is no such thing as a moral victory but I am just saying don't dwell on the past game and focus on the game tomorrow.

Ace E.Anderson
03-05-2012, 10:58 PM
Orlando's been blown out 4 times
Dallas 4 times
Bulls 3 times

I could probably go further. Teams get blown out, it happens.

We were overexcited, they were extremely focused, and they are one of the best teams in the league.

We can beat them, but we have to play well. We didn't play well, at all.

no need to panic, no need to throw anyone (coughHibbertcough) under the bus.

We've beat this team at home before, we can do it again. We just weren't mentally prepared for it tonight. And with a young team, that's going to happen.

The Pacers aren't building their team by collecting battle tested assets. They are building their team through the draft and collecting young guys...which means they have to experience losing and becoming mentally tough right now. I think they're doing a darn good job, personally, regardless of the results of tonight.

The Mavs are the defending champions, their season doesnt start until the playoffs. The bulls have played half the season without either Rose, Deng, or Hamilton. And its not a matter of getting blown out, its a matter of constantly getting blown out by good teams. I dont want to be compared to the magic, i want to be better than that. And if we ever are going to be better than that, then we need to BEAT a good team. Just saying

doctor-h
03-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Call me crazy but for this year, I'm content with having home court and winning just the first round games, and with this team we can easily do that. I mean seriously how many sub .500 teams become legit title contenders the next year? I'm cool with 23 and 13...

We have done neither of those things yet. They have to be mentally tougher, rebound better and execute some kind of offense. The point guard play has to improve and Hill has to fill those back up minutes at the point.

TheDon
03-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Other than the horrid rebounding differential, I'm really upset that foster had all the time to rest up and couldn't make the trip. I'm so beyond tired of that situation, all this time to heal up and instead we decide to use him for a game he only played 12 minutes and contributed only 1 rebound against the warriors. I love Jeff as much as any Pacers fan but come on if you're broke down after 12 minutes against the warriors that's pathetic.

Sookie
03-05-2012, 11:03 PM
The Mavs are the defending champions, their season doesnt start until the playoffs. The bulls have played half the season without either Rose, Deng, or Hamilton. And its not a matter of getting blown out, its a matter of constantly getting blown out by good teams. I dont want to be compared to the magic, i want to be better than that. And if we ever are going to be better than that, then we need to BEAT a good team. Just saying

Like the Bulls, on their home court? Oh yea, we did that.

The Lakers, on their homecourt? oh yea, did that too. Orlando, yup.

We've beaten good teams, and we've lost to them too.

How come other teams get excuses (defending champions, missing players..etc) but ours doesn't?

Chill out guys. This team is fine. They're growing up, and there will be some bumps in the road.

pwee31
03-05-2012, 11:06 PM
I will admit that Hansbrough playing bad kills our bench and our depth. He has gone from solid starter last year, to completely flustered a lot of the time.

There are starting to be times where I would rather have Amundson on the floor. NEVER thought I would say that.

Need to get production out of Hansbrough. If that means letting him play his game and be offensive minded and aggressive, so be it. Worked last year. Why not let him be confident and take shots, instead of be tentative...and still take shots

Hoop
03-05-2012, 11:08 PM
I know I'm being over critical of Roy for this game. I would not be so critical if he had not made statements in the paper. He made several statement about the Bulls and Noah since the last time we played them. How he couldn't wait to play them again and Noah gets under his skin, etc...

If your gonna talk the talk you damn sure better walk the the walk. You don't come out and play like a girl. Sorry that is all.

rabid
03-05-2012, 11:08 PM
I'm ticked about the loss, but I'm SO GLAD we're complaining about losing to one of the top 3 teams in the league on their home court while still 10 games above .500!

What a difference a year makes.

TheDon
03-05-2012, 11:11 PM
I don't think people would be as upset about this situation had we not been dominated as bad as we were. We just **** the bed the 2nd half.

Dr. Hibbert
03-05-2012, 11:11 PM
Danny Granger's shot selection. Still not good.

Roy Hibbert's toughness. Still missing.

CableKC
03-05-2012, 11:11 PM
I have no idea what to say when we are outrebounded 32 to 60 over the course of the entire game.

spazzxb
03-05-2012, 11:12 PM
In the first half our starters played well. The bench played poorly, then the starters brought us back. The starters got down in the third then the Bulls nailed a few threes and the game just got away from us. I don't have a problem with Vogel keeping the starters in because the backups got beat up by Watson in the first.

We were down by 10 during the time the subs usually check in, which was big trouble, however Without the Bulls getting hot from three(especially Dengs deep ball) this game might have still been competitive. I hope the current back court rotation proves me wrong, but except when PG is at the 2 I am not comfortable with it.

spazzxb
03-05-2012, 11:12 PM
In the first half our starters played well. The bench played poorly, then the starters brought us back. The starters got down in the third then the Bulls nailed a few threes and the game just got away from us. I don't have a problem with Vogel keeping the starters in because the backups got beat up by Watson in the first.

We were down by 10 during the time the subs usually check in, which was big trouble, however Without the Bulls getting hot from three(especially Dengs deep ball) this game might have still been competitive. I hope the current back court rotation proves me wrong, but except when PG is at the 2 I am not comfortable with it.

TheDavisBrothers
03-05-2012, 11:13 PM
We have done neither of those things yet. They have to be mentally tougher, rebound better and execute some kind of offense. The point guard play has to improve and Hill has to fill those back up minutes at the point.

:rolleyes: and I never said they did, I believe they are more then capable of doing it

Hoop
03-05-2012, 11:14 PM
I'm ticked about the loss, but I'm SO GLAD we're complaining about losing to one of the top 3 teams in the league on their home court while still 10 games above .500!

What a difference a year makes.
That is true. I didn't think we'd win there 2 times in a row. They're a great team. I'm just upset how we came out after half time.

A year ago seems like a long time ago now, things change and expectations change very fast. The faster they learn to deal with those expectations the faster we can grow as a team.

TheDon
03-05-2012, 11:14 PM
I have no idea what to say when we are outrebounded 32 to 60 over the course of the entire game.

Not sure if it was true or not ,but Slick mentioned on the radio that the Bulls had 1 less than us at the half. If that's true than that's even more pathetic. It really reminds me of the kings game but that game broke my mind cause we actually ended up with the same number of rebounds that game as the kings, this game we just got roflstomped.

BlueNGold
03-05-2012, 11:17 PM
I have no idea what to say when we are outrebounded 32 to 60 over the course of the entire game.

Start with saying they wanted it more. Are they a better team? Sure. Will they be better in a couple months? IDK, but regardless of this game, the Pacers are closer to being their equal this year.

Sure, there are no moral victories...especially at this stage of the team's development. It's time to get over the hump and win. But this team has come a long, long way in just a year. We will not face the Bulls in the first round this year. We are more likely to face a lesser opponent and I expect we find the second round this time...

immortality
03-05-2012, 11:17 PM
In the first half our starters played well. The bench played poorly, then the starters brought us back. The starters got down in the third then the Bulls nailed a few threes and the game just got away from us. I don't have a problem with Vogel keeping the starters in because the backups got beat up by Watson in the first.

We were down by 10 during the time the subs usually check in, which was big trouble, however Without the Bulls getting hot from three(especially Dengs deep ball) this game might have still been competitive. I hope the current back court rotation proves me wrong, but except when PG is at the 2 I am not comfortable with it.

This pretty much, our bench was unable to defend and the Bulls would go on a run. Our starters lost energy after we had to make up for bench and were unable to come back in third. After that no one could hit shots.

Also I wish West would just hit those elbow jumpers instead of trying to drive and looking to get fouled. It opens the court up, we still have plenty of ways to improve our offense.

Lets see how we do against the unpredictable Hawks tomorrow.

joeyd
03-05-2012, 11:18 PM
Other than the horrid rebounding differential, I'm really upset that foster had all the time to rest up and couldn't make the trip. I'm so beyond tired of that situation, all this time to heal up and instead we decide to use him for a game he only played 12 minutes and contributed only 1 rebound against the warriors. I love Jeff as much as any Pacers fan but come on if you're broke down after 12 minutes against the warriors that's pathetic.

I understand the frustration but Jeff didn't break down during 12 minutes of play against the Warriors. His back is sore from one of the rather physical practices that Frank ran during the break between the GSW and NO games. He is due to be listed as day to day after the Atlanta game Tuesday barring a setback.

TheDon
03-05-2012, 11:18 PM
In the first half our starters played well. The bench played poorly, then the starters brought us back. The starters got down in the third then the Bulls nailed a few threes and the game just got away from us. I don't have a problem with Vogel keeping the starters in because the backups got beat up by Watson in the first.

We were down by 10 during the time the subs usually check in, which was big trouble, however Without the Bulls getting hot from three(especially Dengs deep ball) this game might have still been competitive. I hope the current back court rotation proves me wrong, but except when PG is at the 2 I am not comfortable with it.

1st The bench actually wasn't doing too bad they had 2 less points than the bulls bench did in the 1st half.

2nd Watson never played their 3rd string point guard nailed us to the wall by himself.

PGisthefuture
03-05-2012, 11:18 PM
I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that a move needs to be made. The disagreement is the type of move.

There are those wanting to essentially take a gamble with chemistry and move a combination of Collison, Hibbert, or Granger.

And there are those who would like to simply add another piece or 2 to add depth, like a Kaman, Mayo or Crawford, with giving up a key piece.

I think tonight was only one game, and a really bad 2nd half. No need to panic though, just shows room for improvement

I just think we need to add 1 or 2 guys that we can get without giving up a key piece. I think it's ok to begin to panic if we have played like this more than once and we have... The upcoming Heat game will most likely be the same way.

joeyd
03-05-2012, 11:20 PM
I find it perplexing how a team can play so close in one half and be blown away the second half. Credit the Bulls adjustments, but Hibbert and Granger just can't pull disappearing acts for the Pacers to have a chance in these games.

TheDon
03-05-2012, 11:20 PM
I understand the frustration but Jeff didn't break down during 12 minutes of play against the Warriors. His back is sore from one of the rather physical practices that Frank ran during the break between the GSW and NO games. He is due to be listed as day to day after the Atlanta game Tuesday barring a setback.

oh well that makes me feel better, now he can't even handle a practice.

rel
03-05-2012, 11:20 PM
looking on the bright side...it's probably good that we struggle and make corrections now than coming in playoff time with a huge head and fully embarrassing ourselves.


...but yes, that was hard to watch. I did enjoy seeing PG start be assertive when DG/Roy were on the bench. I seriously can not wait until PG is the leader of this team.

EDIT:
oh...and DC...smh. I can not wait until we're no longer relying on his inability to run this offense.

CableKC
03-05-2012, 11:24 PM
Other than the horrid rebounding differential, I'm really upset that foster had all the time to rest up and couldn't make the trip. I'm so beyond tired of that situation, all this time to heal up and instead we decide to use him for a game he only played 12 minutes and contributed only 1 rebound against the warriors. I love Jeff as much as any Pacers fan but come on if you're broke down after 12 minutes against the warriors that's pathetic.
I like what Amundson can do...but this also highlights the fact that when we are dependent on a Frontcourt Player like Foster to shore up the toughness in our Frontcourt...that this is something that the team really should have addressed a long time ago....or at the very least...something that I hope that the FO will address in 10 days.

joeyd
03-05-2012, 11:26 PM
oh well that makes me feel better, now he can't even handle a practice.

You'll feel more blue when you find out that someone posted in another thread that Wells says Foster will be out at least a week b/c of another back procedure!

vnzla81
03-05-2012, 11:26 PM
I understand the frustration but Jeff didn't break down during 12 minutes of play against the Warriors. His back is sore from one of the rather physical practices that Frank ran during the break between the GSW and NO games. He is due to be listed as day to day after the Atlanta game Tuesday barring a setback.

I'm pretty sure Jeff is out for few weeks, he had another procedure I think.

BlueNGold
03-05-2012, 11:28 PM
I was most disappointed by Hibbert's disappearing act. Seriously, it's time that he shows up for big games like this. Another lesser concern is that we could use better on the ball pressure. I know DRose is a tough cover but we need a bigger PG to contend with him. It's not that he burned Collison but to stop DRose it takes away D from other areas.

Midcoasted
03-05-2012, 11:34 PM
I'm just going to have a short memory on this one and move on. We still split 1-1 with the best team in the NBA on their home court. That is decent. We still have the chance to take the season series at home. Of course the elite teams are going to beat us like this on their court. They beat each other like this. I watched many Pacers teams take losses like this to great teams. And we still ended up in 7 game ECFs almost every year it seemed. Many playoff games I remember losing by around 20 on the road and winning by about the same at home.

One game is one game. We come out tomorrow and beat the Hawks soundly and all is right. If we lose, well that's tough. Still from here out we simply have to beat the teams we should beat and we will be a top 5 seed. That is great improvement. Any time we can beat one of the best teams in the NBA on the road or even compete is just a bonus. We need home court advantage. The 6th man really does play a huge role. Sadly we needed this win tonight more than Chicago. We need fans at the Fieldhouse to gain that advantage again.

We can right this ship tomorrow with a win and I'm hoping we pull off a thriller and beat Miami on their court. Tonight we played bad and let the nerves take over. We choked, but inexperienced teams do. The Bulls have more chemistry and continuity. It takes time to gain experience and let the losses motivate you to win the next time.

CableKC
03-05-2012, 11:34 PM
In the first half our starters played well. The bench played poorly, then the starters brought us back. The starters got down in the third then the Bulls nailed a few threes and the game just got away from us. I don't have a problem with Vogel keeping the starters in because the backups got beat up by Watson in the first.

We were down by 10 during the time the subs usually check in, which was big trouble, however Without the Bulls getting hot from three(especially Dengs deep ball) this game might have still been competitive. I hope the current back court rotation proves me wrong, but except when PG is at the 2 I am not comfortable with it.
You can say that again....

CableKC
03-05-2012, 11:39 PM
Start with saying they wanted it more. Are they a better team? Sure. Will they be better in a couple months? IDK, but regardless of this game, the Pacers are closer to being their equal this year.

Sure, there are no moral victories...especially at this stage of the team's development. It's time to get over the hump and win. But this team has come a long, long way in just a year. We will not face the Bulls in the first round this year. We are more likely to face a lesser opponent and I expect we find the second round this time...
This was just one instance, I am truly nitpicking here and really disappointed at losing the game ( so take this complaint with a grain of salt ).....but there was one play where Hibbert was jumping for the offensive rebound but Rose simply leaped higher and was able to get the rebound before Hibbert could the ball.

Hibbert is 7'2" and has a wingspan of a pterodactyl...but he has the vertical leap of an elephant.

graphic-er
03-05-2012, 11:40 PM
First off, Joey Crawford screwed us over in the first 5 minutes of the game again. Whistled 2 fouls on Hibbert in the 1st, and they were ticky tack touch fouls. This is after letting them play very physical to start the game.

2nd Roy had a terrible game in what was the biggest game of the season for us so far. But the Bulls were doing a great job of denying the entry pass. They were crowding Hibbert with 2 of 3 players on some possession. So our guys just weren't going to take the chance passing the ball in there. Our guys just didn't do a very good job of leading their man away. Hibbert got totally out worked on rebounds though. Look there is a reason why I said I'd trade Hibbert for Gortat. I can't be the only one who says DC+Hibbert+1st for Nash and Gortat.

3rd. Very hard to rebound the ball when guys wont box out. Hans should honestly take a step down in the depth chart.
At this point it would be very prudent for Larry to get Kamen and pair him with Lou in the 2nd unit.

Hoop
03-05-2012, 11:43 PM
This was just one instance, I am truly nitpicking here and really disappointed at losing the game ( so take this complaint with a grain of salt ).....but there was one play where Hibbert was jumping for the offensive rebound but Rose simply leaped higher and was able to get the rebound before Hibbert could the ball.

Hibbert is 7'2" and has a wingspan of a pterodactyl...but he has the vertical leap of an elephant.I remember that play, really it just seemed like Rose wanted it more. Disappointing.

CableKC
03-05-2012, 11:47 PM
I remember that play, really it just seemed like Rose wanted it more. Disappointing.
Or that a super athletic 6'3" Guard has a higher vertical and better rebounding sense than a 7'2" Center ;)

PGisthefuture
03-05-2012, 11:49 PM
Wow ESPN just said something good about our defense...

Justin Tyme
03-05-2012, 11:53 PM
oh well that makes me feel better, now he can't even handle a practice.


Just checked Foster's game log. He's played in a whopping 11 games this year. That's 11 out of 36 games. That's only 30% of the games. Loyalty only goes so far when it causes problems for the team when he's constantly DNP-Injured.

If Foster doesn't retire after this season and wants to continue playing, then the Pacers need to let him draw a paycheck somewhere else.

Mr_Smith
03-05-2012, 11:53 PM
I was at my second job so I couldn't watch the game. Saw on espn scorecenter app that the pacers were up 1 at the half, then I look at the end of the 3rd quarter they were getting blown out. I thought it was a typo on the app. Must have been a bad 3rd quarter. :-o

sanders31
03-05-2012, 11:53 PM
usually I dont post anything but after tonight I cant help myself. I feel like a lot of you probably feel, I was fired up all day anticipating tonight, and now I sit here wondering if any one got the number of that truck that hit us in the 3rd. This Bulls team is very beatable, and its quite deflating after holding the flower to 1-9 in the first half, to lose this game. This is a good young team, that seems to wilt when the spot light gets the brightest. I don't know if i am the only one that notices this but it seems like DWest body language is the first to go in games where the going gets tough. He is supposed to be the one that steadies the wheel when the youngsters start to get frazzled or star struck. I still think this team needs a guy that is not afraid to get mad in the huddle and lead not only in the locker room but on the court.

Hicks
03-05-2012, 11:54 PM
Disappointing, but not really unexpected. We couldn't sustain our high level of play, they took advantage by not only maintaining THEIR high level of play, but by then draining a lot of brutal three's. That's enough when you're that good.

Didn't really learn much tonight other than we're still good, they're still damned good, and while we're close enough to IMO steal a series from them, that is exactly what it would be: Theft.

I'd still love for us to add another piece by the deadline.

spazzxb
03-05-2012, 11:58 PM
1st The bench actually wasn't doing too bad they had 2 less points than the bulls bench did in the 1st half.

2nd Watson never played their 3rd string point guard nailed us to the wall by himself.

Well whoever the backup pg was. I had to watch low res on my laptop, so it was a bit hard to keep up. will be at the game tomorrow at least.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

dal9
03-05-2012, 11:58 PM
oh well that makes me feel better, now he can't even handle a practice.

lol.

in foster's defense he's got two "flailing weirdos" going against him in practice.

long as he is at 100% for the playoffs, I'm good...

Hicks
03-06-2012, 12:01 AM
Like the Bulls, on their home court? Oh yea, we did that.

The Lakers, on their homecourt? oh yea, did that too. Orlando, yup.

We've beaten good teams, and we've lost to them too.

How come other teams get excuses (defending champions, missing players..etc) but ours doesn't?

Chill out guys. This team is fine. They're growing up, and there will be some bumps in the road.

Yep. Freaking out now is a sign of youth or inexperience IMO.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
03-06-2012, 12:03 AM
What was up with the Bulls keeping several of their starters (Deng, Noah, Boozer) in at the end of the game against our bench? Bulls trying to run up the score on us?

Sookie
03-06-2012, 12:05 AM
What was up with the Bulls keeping several of their starters (Deng, Noah, Boozer) in at the end of the game against our bench? Bulls trying to run up the score on us?

Our Bench pulled it within 13 with like, four minutes left. That's enough time to make a quick comeback (stranger things have happened)

So Deng, Boozer, and Noah came back in.

Hicks
03-06-2012, 12:08 AM
Regarding Foster, he's not worth worrying about, IMO. I view his availability as nothing but a bonus, and frankly I just never count on him anymore. I'm fine that we re-signed him so long as we have that other guy in place to fill the backup C spot on a regular basis, and I think Lou's done a pretty decent job.

Derek2k3
03-06-2012, 12:08 AM
Lawl at people questioning Fosters toughness.

That's when you know the topic "jumped the shark," so to speak.

You can be disappointed that he hasn't been able to play, but it's laughable to think that he's soft or something. If Jeff isn't playing, there's a darn good reason why not. It's too bad that folks are so quick to throw a guy under the bus like that, especially a guy like Jeff.

Hicks
03-06-2012, 12:09 AM
Those knocking Hibbert for 'never' showing up against the Bulls or other top teams have awfully short memories, by the way.

TheDavisBrothers
03-06-2012, 12:11 AM
Those knocking Hibbert for 'never' showing up against the Bulls or other top teams have awfully short memories, by the way.

He was huge for us the last time we played them, but he hasn't historically played well against Noah

Hicks
03-06-2012, 12:40 AM
He was huge for us the last time we played them, but he hasn't historically played well against Noah

Historically he wasn't this good of a player, either. We're talking about a guy just stepping into the spotlight, not some 8 year vet.

RLeWorm
03-06-2012, 12:47 AM
not really that mad. Just glad the "rivalry" is getting picked up again. One day we will look back at all the highlights and it will be Paul George and Derrick Rose

TheDavisBrothers
03-06-2012, 01:09 AM
Historically he wasn't this good of a player, either. We're talking about a guy just stepping into the spotlight, not some 8 year vet.

Well odviously, but even taking into account his past production, I'm sure he's games against The Bulls were still below he's averages and production at the time

joeyd
03-06-2012, 01:32 AM
Lawl at people questioning Fosters toughness.
That's when you know the topic "jumped the shark," so to speak.
You can be disappointed that he hasn't been able to play, but it's laughable to think that he's soft or something. If Jeff isn't playing, there's a darn good reason why not. It's too bad that folks are so quick to throw a guy under the bus like that, especially a guy like Jeff.

Agree. And as Hicks said. I'm not worried about Jeff. He'll be back and contributing when he can and when he is fit to do it. Lou has been playing well, and we may yet get Kamen.

People are really very quick to throw NBA players and anyone making more $$$ than they are under the bus. Their employment situation in many ways is not unlike most of ours; people get sick or need to take extended leaves. It's not due to any fault of theirs. When someone at my workplace needs an extended leave, we don't have the financial means to, nor would we replace them if there is some hope that they will come back. We do our best to keep things going in their absence.

These folks that are so quick to have Jeff just move on----I hope their employers are more tolerant than they are, should they become unable to work for prolonged periods.

rock747
03-06-2012, 01:51 AM
Pacers need better point guard play.

CableKC
03-06-2012, 02:06 AM
At any point in the 2nd half, did PG or Inferno guard Rose?

I noticed in the 1st half that DC and AJ were mainly guarded Rose....but in the 2nd half when Rose was hitting ( what seemed like every 3pt shot he was heaving up ) I didn't really notice if PG or Inferno was guarding Rose or not.

Midcoasted
03-06-2012, 02:22 AM
At any point in the 2nd half, did PG or Inferno guard Rose?

I noticed in the 1st half that DC and AJ were mainly guarded Rose....but in the 2nd half when Rose was hitting ( what seemed like every 3pt shot he was heaving up ) I didn't really notice if PG or Inferno was guarding Rose or not.

No it was all on Collison and Price. This is why we really need Lance to develop into a full time starter. He is the only point guard we have on this team that isn't a defensive liability against players like Rose or Williams. He is strong and has the length to defend them. Collison and Price do not.

Collison is a liability on defense, and we need him to move to the bench. Lance isn't ready so we need to upgrade the spot if we want to contend with the Bulls in 7. Sure you can rotate George or Jones over, but then that leaves our undersized point guard on their 2 or 3 which is a mismatch nightmare for us against the Bulls because their wing play is well above average.

I love Collison, I really do. Him and Price did a great job on Rose in the first half. But I think that was more because of the double the ball scheme. Once it went isolation it showed why as long as Collison is our starter, we will have a weak spot in the defense that bigger point guards can exploit. George Hill also isn't capable of starting at point either. He is a better 2 and hasn't shown much ability at stopping the bigger, more elite point guards. Lance is our only hope for the future on this current team. It's either make a move or throw him into the fire. Maybe somehow LA lures Price away from us and Lance can get his spot back. We really need him to come in and play defense when Collison is getting abused like that by Rose. And Lance can at least create an easy look for a teammate, where Collison may be the worst starting point guard in the NBA at creating shots for anyone other than himself. He is a great scoring point off the bench, but if he is your starter, you are in trouble defensively and you will be bottom of the league in assists. I really don't see how he ever averaged 9 a game as a rookie starter. That system must have really inflated his numbers.

D-BONE
03-06-2012, 07:40 AM
Payback game for our supposed postgame disrespect from the win there before. Not sure I saw it that way, but it was at least "overcelebration" for a single game that early in the year. Too bad it wasn't a loss in more competitive fashion. The rebounding differential is inexcusable.

If moves are to be made, the needs seem obvious to me. More contributing depth at 4/5 and starting PG upgrade. I think we can live with George & Hill manning most of the two minutes. JCraw/Mayo type move could add some additional offensive punch, but I'm honestly not that happy with our 2 situation compared to other two needs.

DrFife
03-06-2012, 08:00 AM
Hibbert is 7'2" and has a wingspan of a pterodactyl...but he has the vertical leap of an elephant.

Wings notwithstanding, those big feet and stubby little legs didn't give pterodactyls much of a vertical leap, either.

LoneGranger33
03-06-2012, 08:01 AM
We didn't lose because of point guard play. This game doesn't fit the Darren Collison is our weakest link and needs to be traded if we're ever going to win again narrative. Derrick Rose was an incredible 5 of 16 from the field for 13 points. We lost because they had 60 rebounds (18 of them over our defense). We forced them into 17 turnovers (we only had 8 ourselves) and they still had an almost equal amount of field goal attempts. A few of those turnovers were created by the defensive pressure on Rose and DC's active hands. Darren Collison might be tasked with running the offense, but he can't physically move Roy Hibbert into post position.

DrFife
03-06-2012, 08:03 AM
If Foster doesn't retire after this season and wants to continue playing, then the Pacers need to let him draw a paycheck somewhere else.

You've got some yard work you'd love to give him, I'm sure. :p

vnzla81
03-06-2012, 08:10 AM
We didn't lose because of point guard play. This game doesn't fit the Darren Collison is our weakest link and needs to be traded if we're ever going to win again narrative. Derrick Rose was an incredible 5 of 16 from the field for 13 points. We lost because they had 60 rebounds (18 of them over our defense). We forced them into 17 turnovers (we only had 8 ourselves) and they still had an almost equal amount of field goal attempts. A few of those turnovers were created by the defensive pressure on Rose and DC's active hands. Darren Collison might be tasked with running the offense, but he can't physically move Roy Hibbert into post position.

DC was not the only problem but he was a huge problem, getting 0 points and 3 assists from your starting point guard is just pathetic and yes Hibbert, Danny and West were just as bad.

LoneGranger33
03-06-2012, 08:17 AM
The movement on offense was non-existent, especially off-ball. Darren Collison does not have the ability to create offense himself. Very few NBA point guards can. When both Hibbert and West are being pushed way out of the paint, there's really not a lot of room left to run an offense. He could have been better, no doubt about it. His shooting was ****-poor. But this one isn't on him, especially with all the energy he exerted keeping up with Rose.

Derek2k3
03-06-2012, 08:43 AM
DC's statline doesn't tell the story. He played fantastic defense on one of the best players in the first quarter, something reflected in Rose's first half statistics.

The issue is DC didn't pick it up in the second, he sort of went tentative like the rest of the team. However, I would advise against reading too much into his stats. That first half defense was a thing of beauty, he was working Rose over.

Nuntius
03-06-2012, 09:31 AM
I fell asleep during the 3rd quarter since I was sick (not from what I was seeing). After I woke up I checked the boxscore. I don't think that it's as bad as it seems. We couldn't hit the broadside of the barn yesterday. It happens sometimes. Defensively, we were ok through most of the game.

Regarding the 3rd quarter now. The Bulls were absolutely hot. They hit several 3 pointers in a row (3 or 4 I think) and they got a critical psychological boost. As I said, happens.

Did I want us to come stronger in the 3rd quarter? Sure, I did. Do I think that this is a reason to panick? No. At least not yet. We have to come out strong in the next game and stomp the Hawks. If we do this, then it's gonna be a good first step towards recovery.

TinManJoshua
03-06-2012, 09:45 AM
When Deng hit that three from a mile behind the line in the third quarter, I knew we weren't getting out of this one alive. I thought it was just an awful shot, total heat check, and then swish...

Ace E.Anderson
03-06-2012, 09:50 AM
We didn't lose because of point guard play. This game doesn't fit the Darren Collison is our weakest link and needs to be traded if we're ever going to win again narrative. Derrick Rose was an incredible 5 of 16 from the field for 13 points. We lost because they had 60 rebounds (18 of them over our defense). We forced them into 17 turnovers (we only had 8 ourselves) and they still had an almost equal amount of field goal attempts. A few of those turnovers were created by the defensive pressure on Rose and DC's active hands. Darren Collison might be tasked with running the offense, but he can't physically move Roy Hibbert into post position.

THAT particular fact may be the best possible proof that we need a new PG. If DC can't even outplay Rose when Rose plays awful, how can we ever expect him to play well when Rose plays to his normal capabilities?! Our frontline did get pushed around, you are 100% correct on that. But that's not as much of a norm as our pg being a liability.

TheDavisBrothers
03-06-2012, 09:51 AM
When Deng hit that three from a mile behind the line in the third quarter, I knew we weren't getting out of this one alive. I thought it was just an awful shot, total heat check, and then swish...

Yea if it wasn't over by then, it was definitely over after that DAGGER

Hicks
03-06-2012, 09:58 AM
Darren Collison might be tasked with running the offense, but he can't physically move Roy Hibbert into post position.

The problem is that when Roy IS in post position, Collison is not good at getting him the ball. Let alone when Roy moves or cuts.

I wish we had anyone else besides Lance that was good at those last two things.

Major Cold
03-06-2012, 10:13 AM
The problem is that when Roy IS in post position, Collison is not good at getting him the ball. Let alone when Roy moves or cuts.

I wish we had anyone else besides Lance that was good at those last two things.

And only Paul and David are good at swinging the ball when Roy is fronted.

Look when Roy is fronted he seals his man. We need to reverse the ball to force the weakside defense to collapse on the lane. But more times than not when we reverse we either pass to quickly to the baseline or Danny chucks up a dumb shot.

Allow the defense to collapse on Roy then pass to the baseline.

Justin Tyme
03-06-2012, 10:25 AM
I'd still love for us to add another piece by the deadline.


I hope this game was a reality check foir Bird, and he does just that! I'll be extremely disappointed if his answer is still just betting on a healthy Foster for the playoffs while not addressing the problem with the goal of just getting to the 2nd round by status quo and let'm grow.

Justin Tyme
03-06-2012, 10:29 AM
long as he is at 100% for the playoffs, I'm good...


You still going to be good when Foster isn't 100% in the playoffs, and Bird squandered the opportunity to add needed depth??

LoneGranger33
03-06-2012, 10:30 AM
My argument only applies to last night's game. I'm not saying Darren Collison is the answer at point guard. I'm only saying that last night, Roy didn't even give DC the opportunity to fail.

If anything, this is my point: Darren Collison is just another example of a guy whose play hasn't exceeded the expectations this board set for him. When he was putting up great numbers in New Orleans, a lot of posters were salivating over the guy, and when we traded Troy Murphy away to get him (a great trade by any measure), the sentiment was even higher. Now he's the whipping boy - almost every loss is (at least somewhat) his fault, even when the evidence suggests otherwise. It's more complicated than that, and we do ourselves a real disservice when we try to simplify it to this simple narrative of "Darren Collison is a bottom-half point guard that can't be on a championship team".

To be perfectly honest, I agree with many of the complaints about Darren Collison. I really do. But I don't think he's being treated fairly by the board.

If anyone bothers to look back, I was one of the earliest (and most vocal) Jim O'Brien detractors. After a while though, everything that went wrong became Jim O'Brien's fault, and I had to start defending him. You will never see me argue that he did a good job while he was here, but we let that narrative dominate and impair our analysis of everything else that happened. I've done it myself, with Stephen Jackson and later with Troy Murphy - that was my mistake. I see the same thing happening with Darren Collison now, and I don't think it's good for this board.

Justin Tyme
03-06-2012, 10:32 AM
What was up with the Bulls keeping several of their starters (Deng, Noah, Boozer) in at the end of the game against our bench? Bulls trying to run up the score on us?



The Bulls aren't the only ones with memories! The next game is in Indy.

BillS
03-06-2012, 10:39 AM
The Bulls aren't the only ones with memories! The next game is in Indy.

We'd be better served not to worry about celebrations and focus on playing basketball.

Justin Tyme
03-06-2012, 11:19 AM
We didn't lose because of point guard play. This game doesn't fit the Darren Collison is our weakest link and needs to be traded if we're ever going to win again narrative. Derrick Rose was an incredible 5 of 16 from the field for 13 points. We lost because they had 60 rebounds (18 of them over our defense). We forced them into 17 turnovers (we only had 8 ourselves) and they still had an almost equal amount of field goal attempts. A few of those turnovers were created by the defensive pressure on Rose and DC's active hands. Darren Collison might be tasked with running the offense, but he can't physically move Roy Hibbert into post position.


I can't remember when I loath a player like Noah, it starts with his attitude to his ugly hair style, BUT lets face it he's a hard nose player who can rebound. 17 rebs and 14 of them were under the Pacers basket. I'm not going to throw Hibbert under the bus, but I am disappointed in his play last night. If this a** whupp'nt, especially on the boards, doesn't show Bird this team needs more BIG help I don't know what does. The Bulls had 60 rebs with 6 players with 6 or more rebounds where the Pacers only had 3 players with 6 or more rebs.

Both Hibbert and Hans played 24+ min with each shooting 1-6 FG, that's 2 for 12 which is absolutely pathetic. Taj Gibson a b/u PF, like Hansbro, scored 10 pts/9 rebs/3BS and was more active and played better "D". Hansbro is truly making me wonder if he's part of the core of the future. His game is mostly "forcing up" shots close to the basket in wild fashion no matter how many defenders on him. Part of that and his game is getting to the line, and when he isn't getting the calls he brings little else to the game. I'm being to believe other teams have figured out his game and have adjusted to it where he just keeps doing what he did in college expecting the same results. He's got to adjust his game and improve it if he plans on being a major contributor in the NBA and for the Pacers. As it now stands, he's a player if he was traded I wouldn't be upset about losing. JMOAA

Justin Tyme
03-06-2012, 11:21 AM
You've got some yard work you'd love to give him, I'm sure. :p


No, I need someone I could count on to do the job.

joeyd
03-06-2012, 12:39 PM
No, I need someone I could count on to do the job.

See post #79

dal9
03-06-2012, 12:49 PM
You still going to be good when Foster isn't 100% in the playoffs, and Bird squandered the opportunity to add needed depth??

No. Then I would be sad. :cry:

Justin Tyme
03-06-2012, 01:53 PM
See post #79


What's that got to do with me not being able to rely on Foster being able to do my yard work? If I'm gonna pay someone to do it, I want someone who is physically capable to do it, and not have to wait until their ailing back can allow them to complete the job. I want it done now not in a week or two when they are feel they will be healthy.

Speaking of paying Foster, why don't you figure out how much money Foster has made the last 3 seasons for not being able to play. I'm sure many will be interested in seeing what the total is! I know I will be.

xIndyFan
03-06-2012, 02:15 PM
. . . Speaking of paying Foster, why don't you figure out how much money Foster has made the last 3 seasons for not being able to play. I'm sure many will be interested in seeing what the total is! I know I will be.

FWIW, i'm not. not even curious. don't understand your fixation with bird and foster. if you get a chance, PM me and explain it.

i get v81 and a99, i don't agree, but i do understand. i just don't get yours at all. i like your posts, they usually make sense. but not the foster/bird thing.

Derek2k3
03-06-2012, 02:42 PM
What's that got to do with me not being able to rely on Foster being able to do my yard work? If I'm gonna pay someone to do it, I want someone who is physically capable to do it, and not have to wait until their ailing back can allow them to complete the job. I want it done now not in a week or two when they are feel they will be healthy.

Speaking of paying Foster, why don't you figure out how much money Foster has made the last 3 seasons for not being able to play. I'm sure many will be interested in seeing what the total is! I know I will be.

2008-09: $5.5M
2009-10: $6M
2010-11: $6.6M
2011-12: $3M

joeyd
03-06-2012, 03:02 PM
What's that got to do with me not being able to rely on Foster being able to do my yard work? If I'm gonna pay someone to do it, I want someone who is physically capable to do it, and not have to wait until their ailing back can allow them to complete the job. I want it done now not in a week or two when they are feel they will be healthy.

Speaking of paying Foster, why don't you figure out how much money Foster has made the last 3 seasons for not being able to play. I'm sure many will be interested in seeing what the total is! I know I will be.

Wow. I guess you really must have been looking to hire Foster to do your yard work. Just make sure you don't hire Greg Oden either. And I guess you are 100% capable of doing your job at all times as well. So you also must have super powers to be able to stay healthy and not miss one day of work, and your co-workers must therefore also be ecstatic that they never have to do any extra work on your account. But for most people, in the real world, that's not how it goes.

Post #79 talked about how people are so apt to throw people under the bus. It's just my opinion---you are entitled to yours to---that you've thrown him under the bus. I also don't think many people realize that Foster might also be getting paid to do more than play. His role as mentor has been discussed several times on PD.

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 03:51 PM
2008-09: $5.5M
2009-10: $6M
2010-11: $6.6M
2011-12: $3M

In the past three years Foster has made a total of 15.6M dollars and has only played a total of 83 games during that time to date. If you average that out, Foster has basically made $187,591.00 a game during this span. I love Foster and what he brings but come on, that's just ridiculous.

Hibbert
03-06-2012, 04:17 PM
I hope this game was a reality check foir Bird, and he does just that! I'll be extremely disappointed if his answer is still just betting on a healthy Foster for the playoffs while not addressing the problem with the goal of just getting to the 2nd round by status quo and let'm grow.

That's exactly what needs to happen. We've waited this long, why not another year or two? You cannot just build a championship team overnight. Look at Miami. I love what Bird has done, this team is stacked. They need time to grow together, live and learn. I don't know what everyone is expecting but this is not our year, it will take some time.

vnzla81
03-06-2012, 05:04 PM
Wow. I guess you really must have been looking to hire Foster to do your yard work. Just make sure you don't hire Greg Oden either. And I guess you are 100% capable of doing your job at all times as well. So you also must have super powers to be able to stay healthy and not miss one day of work, and your co-workers must therefore also be ecstatic that they never have to do any extra work on your account. But for most people, in the real world, that's not how it goes.

Post #79 talked about how people are so apt to throw people under the bus. It's just my opinion---you are entitled to yours to---that you've thrown him under the bus. I also don't think many people realize that Foster might also be getting paid to do more than play. His role as mentor has been discussed several times on PD.

I'm not sure somebody can be a mentor when that person expends must of his time in a hospital, home or the training room rehabbing, I'm pretty sure he doesn't travel with the team that much either, so yeah that "mentor" stuff is overrated here.