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View Full Version : Who had the better game, Rondo or Williams?



Peck
03-05-2012, 04:53 AM
Both had outstanding games on Sunday.

Deron Williams scored 57 points shooting 55% from the field & 100% from the line 21-21, 7 assists & 6 boards.

Rajon Rondo scored 18 points grabbed 17 rebounds and threw 20 assists.

Both are impressive, which was better. (both of their teams won the games as well).

immortality
03-05-2012, 05:04 AM
Rondo only, because it was against the better team.

15th parallel
03-05-2012, 05:10 AM
Rondo.

I should have given this to Deron because Rondo have killed his offensive efficiency by shooting a ton and scored only 18 points, but Rondo played a better all-around game. Plus, Rondo did it on a better quality opponent. 20 assists still translate to at least 40 points so it's almost as close as what Deron did, but Rondo grabbed 17 rebounds and this is superb rebounding for a PG.

Lance George
03-05-2012, 05:10 AM
Deron Williams' absurd offensive efficiency blows anything Rondo did out of the water.

Remember: Rondo's 18 points came on dismal 7-20 shooting, which brings his overall game down. The assisting was nice, but when you're scoring at the level Williams' was scoring, passing becomes a detriment.

Give me Deron Williams huge advantage in scoring over Rondo's extra 11 rebounds and 13 assists any day.

Foul on Smits
03-05-2012, 05:29 AM
I think I could put 25 on the Bobcats right now.

Lance George
03-05-2012, 05:34 AM
The last time a player scored at least 57 points on less than 30 FGAs?

20 years ago (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199211280CHH.html).

Will Galen
03-05-2012, 05:35 AM
Rondo played 48 minutes, Williams played 38. So if you adjust for a 48 minute game, Rondo's doesn't change while Williams goes up. Also Rondo has way better teammates than Williams.

Still . . . I couldn't pick who had the better game. Add either to the Pacers currant team and we are title contenders.

Kstat
03-05-2012, 05:38 AM
simple math. There have been a lot more 57 point games in NBA history than 15-15-15 games.

TheDavisBrothers
03-05-2012, 05:39 AM
Deron Williams and it's not close imo.
1. If your gonna include Rondo's assists as adding at least 40 points, then you have to add at least 14 to Deron's total too, for his assists.
2. Sure Rondo played a better team, but it's not like NY is a great defensive team and he has a way better supporting cast. It's been widely talked about how Lin is poor on the defensive side. Deron had to carry a pathetic team, that gave an even more pathetic then usual performance, and that's only other really good player got injuried.
3. Rondo shoot 7/20 from the field and 4/7 from the free throw line, in comparison to 16/29 and 21/21 from Deron.
4. Plus on top of all of that Rondo's game went into overtime, so he got to play 5 more minutes then Deron.

beast23
03-05-2012, 06:01 AM
Close call, but I'll take Rondo. Why? He did a much better job of involving his teammates, thus making those around him better. Exactly what the Pacers need in their equal opportunity offense.

Lance George
03-05-2012, 06:02 AM
I fail to see how something being more rare logically entails that something being better. That's a real head-scratcher.

My definition of better, in this context, would be the performance which had a bigger impact on winning. I have to go with Deron.

37 points vs. 11 rebounds and 13 assists.

I think the efficiency of those points, coupled with how bad Rondo was when calling his own number (which doesn't show up in the point differential), gives the edge to Williams.

It's not as "neat" a statline, but I'd wager it was more effective.

ilive4sports
03-05-2012, 06:04 AM
simple math. There have been a lot more 57 point games in NBA history than 15-15-15 games.

But with the efficiency Williams did it with? Not nearly as many.

Boston would not have won if Rondo played like Williams and Williams wouldn't have won if he played like Rondo. Both did what needed to be done for their team to win. 57 points on 29 shots is pretty ridiculous. And Rondo's stat line is incredible.

Rondo's does have a blemish though. His shooting was not good. 7-20 with 18 points is bad. Also, for Rondo to get all those assists, it means his teammates are knocking down the shots too. Boston as a team (taking out Rondo's shooting) shot better than the Nets as a team (taking out Williams shooting). Rondo certainly had better opportunities for assists than Williams did.

While Rondo had the rarer stat line, he shot 35%. Had he shot better, the game wouldn't have gone to overtime where he picked up 5 points, 5 rebounds and 2 assists.

While its tough, I'm going to say Williams had the better game. Yes, Rondo did it against a better team, but Williams is on the far worse team and didn't have a teammate score 34 point on nearly 57% shooting like Rondo did.

ilive4sports
03-05-2012, 06:09 AM
Close call, but I'll take Rondo. Why? He did a much better job of involving his teammates, thus making those around him better. Exactly what the Pacers need in their equal opportunity offense.

You say this as if Williams has a good cast around him. Williams shot 55% while the rest of the team shot 43%. Should he really be giving up the ball in that situation? And the guy still had 7 assists.

Williams didnt have Paul Pierce, who had an amazing game for Boston. Dude did it on his own.

Will Galen
03-05-2012, 06:10 AM
simple math. There have been a lot more 57 point games in NBA history than 15-15-15 games.

Yes, but that doesn't mean Rondo had the better game. It means there are just less players equipped to do what Rondo did.

As is, if Williams played 10 more minutes it's likely he would have had over 60 points and a triple double also.

I think that because once he got near a triple he would have tried for it, and they weren't stopping him.

I think you talked me into voting for Williams.

TheDavisBrothers
03-05-2012, 06:13 AM
37 points vs. 11 rebounds and 13 assists.

it would actually be 39 points

TheDavisBrothers
03-05-2012, 06:17 AM
http://www.nba.com/statistics/efficiency.html

Deron's efficiency was +54, Rondo's was +37

Lance George
03-05-2012, 06:18 AM
If we wanna go the rarity route, Deron Williams' performance was the NBA's only 57+ points on less than 30 FGA, with 6+ rebounds and 7+ assists (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=2012&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=57&c2stat=fga&c2comp=lt&c2val=29&c3stat=ast&c3comp=gt&c3val=7&c4stat=trb&c4comp=gt&c4val=6&order_by=pts), in the NBA over the past 26 years (as far back as basketball reference's searchable game logs go).

No Jordan. No Kobe. No LeBron. No Bird. No Shaq.

Just Deron Williams.

If we lower the criteria a little bit, to at least 55/5/5 on less than 30 shots (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=2012&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=55&c2stat=fga&c2comp=lt&c2val=29&c3stat=ast&c3comp=gt&c3val=5&c4stat=trb&c4comp=gt&c4val=5&order_by=pts), Reggie Miller and LeBron James each have done it.

Nuntius
03-05-2012, 07:22 AM
Do we really have to choose? Both played their mind out. Personally, I went for Rondo but the difference is pretty non-existant.

Granville
03-05-2012, 07:23 AM
I understand the "just because it is more rare it doesn't mean that it is better" argument, but when only two players have done what you have done in a game, and their names are Oscar Robertson and Wilt Chamberlain, you win in my book. Both had great games, but Rondo gets my vote.

Steagles
03-05-2012, 07:35 AM
I'm a pure 3 point shooter, and I feel as if I could drop 15 or 18 on the Bokitties. That being said, I give this to Rondo. 18-17-20 is ridiculous all around. D-Will couldn't do that vs NYK.


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TheDavisBrothers
03-05-2012, 08:04 AM
I'm a pure 3 point shooter, and I feel as if I could drop 15 or 18 on the Bokitties. That being said, I give this to Rondo. 18-17-20 is ridiculous all around. D-Will couldn't do that vs NYK.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk


I think I could put 25 on the Bobcats right now.

Let's not forget that no matter how bad they are (and they are really bad), these are still NBA player's, so unless you guys are legitimate players, as in, at the very least played in college, you 2 should shut up with these rediculous arguements.

p.s. if you guys are legit, then I apologize, but otherwise...

Steagles
03-05-2012, 08:12 AM
Let's not forget that no matter how bad they are (and they are really bad), these are still NBA player's, so unless you guys are legitimate players, as in, at the very least played in college, you 2 should shut up with these rediculous arguements.

p.s. if you guys are legit, then I apologize, but otherwise...

I am by no means a "legitimate" player, I just feel as if I could against them. They are playing that bad right now.

Mono
03-05-2012, 08:25 AM
My interpretation of the simple math looks like this:

Rondo: 17+20+18+1+1-4=56
Williams: 57+6+7+1+1-5=67

Rondo's game is more balanced, Williams' game is better. (And this is how I would assess their abilities in general.)

ilive4sports
03-05-2012, 08:33 AM
I understand the "just because it is more rare it doesn't mean that it is better" argument, but when only two players have done what you have done in a game, and their names are Oscar Robertson and Wilt Chamberlain, you win in my book. Both had great games, but Rondo gets my vote.

ok what stat are we talking about here? If its the 15/15/15, it has been done by more than 2 players. Wilt Chamberlain (8 times), Magic Johnson (3), Larry Bird (2), Micheal Ray Richardson (2), Jason Kidd (2) and Walt Frazier.

Yes its very rare and yes its incredible. But its not quite as rare as we first thought.

Mono
03-05-2012, 08:39 AM
I'm a pure 3 point shooter, and I feel as if I could drop 15 or 18 on the Bokitties. That being said, I give this to Rondo. 18-17-20 is ridiculous all around. D-Will couldn't do that vs NYK.


Well, sure. D-Will couldn't do that against anybody, if only because he doesn't have the rebounding abilities of Rondo.

On the other hand, Rondo's career high in points scored is 35, 22 full points fewer than what Deron Williams scored tonight. So it would be just as accurate to say that Rondo couldn't do anything like what D-Will did to the Bobcats tonight.

It's worth noting that the last time the Nets played the Knicks, Williams dropped 38, 4, and 6 in a victory.

I can understand voting for Rondo in this poll -- that's not something I could hold against anybody. But both players can do things the other can't do.

Sparhawk
03-05-2012, 08:39 AM
Rondo's feat was simply amazing. I really wish there was a way we could get him. He just won't get traded, same as Nash. :(

travmil
03-05-2012, 08:44 AM
I voted for Williams, but only because there was no third choice saying the games were about equal. Someone nailed it above. Each player did EXACTLY what their team needed in order to win. I try not to get caught up too much in the individual stats. That takes away from the only stat that matters, wins and losses.

Unclebuck
03-05-2012, 09:42 AM
I can't answer because I did not watch any of the Nets game and only watched the last 2 minutes of regulation and OT of the Celtics game.

If you are asking a more general question as to what is more valuable to a team a triple double or a lot of points. I would say a triple double more likely. Although again I would need to see the game to be able to really judge

Pacer Fan
03-05-2012, 09:59 AM
I thought Rondo did what he always does, pass to the open man and they hit the jump shot. As always, Rondo was not impressive except for 3 good passes and acouple offensive rebound put backs. His offensive game was terrible and his defense was as equal if not worst. I watched this game on dvr. I rewatched about every play Rondo was involved in. He does his job on running the offense very well. But what is impressive more then Rondo is Pierce, Allen, KG, Bass doing their job. It is incredible what those guys do to receive Rondo's easy pass. The Celtic's are a excellent ran team and Rondo fills his job very well. I believe his assist was 14 to open man jump shots. I don't see this as a Rondo wow thing at all, I see this as the screens that they came off of and the execution and shot as a wow moment. So many times Rondo stood there and waited for this. NY defense is terrible and they very seldom pressured Rondo. I know I will be criticed and that's fine. But Rondo is a product of Doc and the Celtics, they are not a product of Rondo.

_The_Future_
03-05-2012, 11:55 AM
I've got to go with Deron. Scoring 57 points with 55% shooting(pretty damn well for a PG) from the field while also finding time to dish out 7 dimes?! And plus 21-21 from the charity stripe is really impressive also. I watched alot of Deron in college as he had and the Illini had a good rivalry with Bracey Wright and my Hoosiers. He was a good player in college, never knew he would play this well as a pro.

Rondo had an amazing game also considering having his character questioned recently and being involved in the trade rumors again. First player to have 17+ in points, assists and rebounds since Magic. Great poll, tough question to answer, wish I could vote for both.

PS - A little side note. To me it seems like PGs in the league try to out do each other after seeing one another do well. Interested to see what Rose, CP3 and the others do in the next few days.

KingGeorge
03-05-2012, 12:08 PM
It's a tough choice, but I would have to say Rondo.

His poor shooting aside, 17 rebounds and 20 assists is more impressive than scoring 57 points against a team with 4 wins.

If Rondo wouldn't have missed a lot of those freebies that he usually makes, he could have easily had 30-17-20.

I wish Deron would have played more than 38 minutes though, I think he could have hit 70.

DgR
03-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Having not seen the actual games, if you only asked me which stat line I wanted my team's point guard to have at the end of a game, I would say Rondo's - because his stats mean other players were probably very involved in the win, unlike Williams', which was more of a one man show. Doesn't mean Rondo's achievement is greater, but more of a team oriented one.

Reginald
03-05-2012, 01:18 PM
ok what stat are we talking about here? If its the 15/15/15, it has been done by more than 2 players. Wilt Chamberlain (8 times), Magic Johnson (3), Larry Bird (2), Micheal Ray Richardson (2), Jason Kidd (2) and Walt Frazier.

Yes its very rare and yes its incredible. But its not quite as rare as we first thought.

There are now three players in NBA history who have pulled off a 15/15/20: the Big O, Wilt and Rondo.

Williams had a great night versus an awful team, Rondo had an historic night versus a good team. I don't even think William's performance belongs in the same paragraph as Rondo's, let alone the same sentence.

Kid Minneapolis
03-05-2012, 01:27 PM
I'll take either one on the Pacers, Larry.

mildlysane
03-05-2012, 01:51 PM
Both are great accomplishments, but when there are three names on the list with two of them being Wilt and Big O, then that is where my money is.

ilive4sports
03-05-2012, 02:19 PM
There are now three players in NBA history who have pulled off a 15/15/20: the Big O, Wilt and Rondo.

Williams had a great night versus an awful team, Rondo had an historic night versus a good team. I don't even think William's performance belongs in the same paragraph as Rondo's, let alone the same sentence.

Rondo is on a good team. Williams is on a horrible team. Are you really gonna hold that against Deron?

Larry Staverman
03-05-2012, 02:23 PM
Not to take anything away from Rondo because he had a great game.

For some strange reason I got the feeling that because of all the trade rumors involving Rondo and the comments both by Rivers before the game and Garnett after the game backing him up that he was set up by Rivers and his teammates to have a monster game.

Obviously he had to come through but it seemed like they were deferring to him more than usual.

Lance George
03-05-2012, 02:30 PM
it would actually be 39 points

My bad. It was 5 in the morning when I wrote that, and I was thinking Rondo scored 20, when it was 18 on 20 shots.


http://www.nba.com/statistics/efficiency.html

Deron's efficiency was +54, Rondo's was +37

I was looking for something like this, thanks. It pretty much confirms that Deron Williams' performance had a far more positive impact on the game.

Anthem
03-05-2012, 02:33 PM
Gotta go with Williams due to Rondo's awful shooting percentage and DWill's absolute lack of help.

But both are amazing games.

OlBlu
03-05-2012, 03:03 PM
Both had outstanding games on Sunday.

Deron Williams scored 57 points shooting 55% from the field & 100% from the line 21-21, 7 assists & 6 boards.

Rajon Rondo scored 18 points grabbed 17 rebounds and threw 20 assists.

Both are impressive, which was better. (both of their teams won the games as well).

Rondo.... Look at the last players to produce that kind of game and you are talking about legends like Oscar Robertson and that man who always seems to pop up, Wilt Chamberlain.......:cool:

Reginald
03-05-2012, 05:57 PM
Rondo is on a good team. Williams is on a horrible team. Are you really gonna hold that against Deron?

Am I gonna hold it against Deron that his opponent was a D-League quality basketball team? Uh, yeah.

Insert any player's name into this sentence: "______________ lit up the Charlotte Bobcats last night." And in any context, that player's performance is diminished by the mere fact it occurred against Charlotte.

ilive4sports
03-05-2012, 06:04 PM
Am I gonna hold it against Deron that his opponent was a D-League quality basketball team? Uh, yeah.

Because the Nets are such a better team than the Bobcats? Swap starting PGs and the Nets have a worse record than the Bobcats.

Ownagedood
03-05-2012, 06:25 PM
Rondo definitely had the better game... He got 17 points on relatively poor shooting. So what? 17 points, 18 reb and 20 assists is CRAZY.

Williams had a great game shooting but that happens from time to time... A pg dominating like Rondo did doesn't happen. He got great rebound numbers for a center, let alone a pg... crazy assist numbers for a real game.. and still put up 17 pts.

Richard_Skull
03-05-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm just glad I have both on my fantasy team.

rexnom
03-05-2012, 07:25 PM
I can't pick because I didn't see the Nets game but Rondo just took over that Celtics game. especially in over time. And he had countless more hockey assists and passes that lead to free throws. There is more than stats to that Rondo game...and the stats say a lot.