PDA

View Full Version : Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago



Slick Pinkham
03-02-2012, 03:28 PM
I was not yet born, though fortunately I at least got to see him as a Laker 11 years later.

This web site has lots of good info on the game, Wilt's career, and some of the myths surrounding him: http://wiltfan.tripod.com/index1.html

see particularly the 100 point game section:
http://wiltfan.tripod.com/onehundred.html


"I can't have a nightmare tonight. I've just lived through one."

--Darrell Imhoff, the starting opposing center the night Wilt scored 100 points, oddly enough most well-known for his defensive prowess.

The game got very odd in the 4th quarter as the Knicks started holding the ball for the full shot clock to slow the game down. The 76ers started fouling, as a counter move, to get the ball back. The Knicks then started fouling other players to keep Chamberlain from scoring. Wilt finally started bring the ball up court, so they had to either stop him or foul him, and for that one night he made 28 of 32 free throws.

Some of my favorite factoids and quotes from elsewhere on the site:

In Wilt's first NBA game, he scored 43 points on 17-of-20 shooting, grabbed 28 rebounds, and (unofficially) blocked 17 shots.

Wilt's "go-to" move was not the dunk, but rather the finger roll and the fade away jump shot.

In his 143 games against Bill Russell, Wilt averaged 28.7 ppg and 28.7 rpg.

In 1962, his coach, Frank McGuire, asked him in the pre-season to score 50 PPG, because he said that was the only way they could beat the Celtics: Russell couldn't stop Wilt, but Russell's teammates were vastly superior to Wilt's (the 1962 Celtics featured 7 hall of famers on the roster). During Wilt's last 7 years, his role changed. Coach Alex Hannum asked Wilt to score less, pass off more take higher percentage shot. The reason why was because the Sixers had talent to match the Celtics'. Wilt told Hannum that he would do anything to win a title, and he responded with perhaps the single finest season in NBA history: 24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, 7.8 apg, 68.3% from the field, NBA championship



"The greatest play I've ever seen was one of the last games of the 1966-67 season and were playing Baltimore. We [Philadelphia] were going for the best record in NBA history. There was a play earlier in the game where Gus Johnson had dunked one over Wilt. Gus ... was a physical specimen [6-foot-6, 230 pounds], all muscle. He loved to dunk and was a very colorful player. When he slammed it on Wilt, he really threw it down, and you could tell that Wilt didn't like it one bit.

Later in the game, Gus was out on the fast break, and the only man between him and the basket was Wilt. He was going to dunk on Wilt--again. Gus cupped the ball and took off--he had a perfect angle for a slam. Wilt went up and with one hand he grabbed the ball--cleanly! Then he took the ball and shoved it right back into Gus, drilling Gus into the floor with the basketball.

Gus was flattened and they carried him out. Gus Johnson was the only player in NBA history to suffer a dislocated shoulder from a blocked shot."

--Billy Cunningham, Tall Tales (by Terry Pluto) p. 236


"Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant. He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman. A View from the Bench. P.70


"The best players I ever saw. The best players I can ever imagine. Oscar Robertson and Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Elgin Baylor, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar...These were all players who could dominate the game from their positions, whatever positions they played. At any point, these six could simply take the game over, and change its direction. They could all do many different things...These guys were supermen, and they would have been the best no matter when they played. They not only had incredible natural talent, they worked at it too."

--Walt Frazier (Knicks broadcaster and hall of fame player), Walt Frazer: One Magical Season and a Basketball Life. (written in 1988), pp. 162-63.


"I said before I faced him, 'Wilt isn't such a tough guy. Let me guard him!' He backed me down and dunked the ball so hard, the ball came through the net and hit me in the forehead twice! Bang! So I said, 'You know, I think maybe he is that great.'

--Spencer Haywood, 5-time all-star, The NBA at 50 p.169


"When I coached the San Francisco Warriors, I thought Al Attles was the fastest guy on our team--by far. We used to gamble a lot--which player could jump the highest and run the fastest. So I set up a series of races, baseline to baseline. In the finals, it was Wilt and Al Attles and Wilt just blew past him. I'm convinced that Wilt Chamberlain is one of the greatest all-around athletes the world has ever seen."

--Alex Hannum, Tall Tales (by Terry Pluto) p. 327


Watching Wilt, you always kind of got the idea he was just playing with people. That he was on cruise control and still 10 times better than anybody else that was playing at that time.""

--Dan Issel, Hall-of famer with 27,842 career points ABA and NBA


Opponents used to put multiple players on Wilt (the defined "illegal defense" rules weren't in place until the 1980s), and they still couldn't stop him. Opponents used to put their elbows into Wilt (illegal today), and they still couldn't stop him. They used to mug the guy, and the refs allowed it, because they were trying to help the other guys, since Wilt was too overwhelming. Today, superstars get preferential treatment. Nearly every single rule passed since the 1960s has been to help the offense have an easier time, even though now teams walk the ball up the court. Wilt would simply dominate the league with these easier rules. He would lead the league in scoring, rebounding, blocks, and be near the top in fg%, and he would certainly lead all centers in assists.

-Wayne Embry


People say the NBA then was a scoring league then. Well, Wilt made it a scoring league. Jack Twyman and Chamberlain became the first players in NBA history to average 30 points a season, in Wilt's rookie year, 1960. So he was the first to average 35, 40, 45, and finally 50 ppg.

-Terry Pluto

RamBo_Lamar
03-02-2012, 04:08 PM
http://wiltfan.tripod.com/images/wilt100.jpg

I'd sure like to see Roy Hibbert get into a zone like that.

OlBlu
03-02-2012, 04:17 PM
I had the honor of meeting Wilt just before his death. Wilt was an enthusiasic dupliate bridge player in California and a friend of mine ran the club where he played. A little old lady (there are a lot of them in the bridge world) went up to Wilt and asked if he was a basketball player because he was so tall.... Wilt laughed and told her that the had never played the game. I was devasted by his death. I guess because of the physical speciman that he was, he would be indestructable. Sadly, that was not the case. You left out Wilt's biggest achievement, his 20,000.......:cool:

PacerPenguins
03-02-2012, 04:24 PM
I'm only 18 soo that seems like forever ago.... i wonder who has the ball

PaceBalls
03-02-2012, 04:58 PM
It sucks a lot of these games weren't televised. Though I suppose it adds to the mystique.

Also
Later in the game, Gus was out on the fast break, and the only man between him and the basket was Wilt. He was going to dunk on Wilt--again. Gus cupped the ball and took off--he had a perfect angle for a slam. Wilt went up and with one hand he grabbed the ball--cleanly! Then he took the ball and shoved it right back into Gus, drilling Gus into the floor with the basketball.

Gus was flattened and they carried him out. Gus Johnson was the only player in NBA history to suffer a dislocated shoulder from a blocked shot."

--Billy Cunningham, Tall Tales (by Terry Pluto) p. 236
That made me thing of Roy's block on Al Horford.

BobbyMac
03-02-2012, 05:55 PM
I saw Wilt play on TV several times. For my money he was the best basketball player ever! (Next was Oscar Robertson)

Kemo
03-02-2012, 06:47 PM
Yea it is so hard to convey how REALLY GREAT some of these players were back in the 60's and 70's..

I only started watching basketball at the beginning of the 80's when I was about 6yrs old .. lol But I remember all the ABC televised games , especially on Saturdays after cartoons were all done playing..lol
But I have seen alot of tapes and videos of games, moreso now with the internet..

The only way I could describe the utter dominance of Wilt as a player, would be if you took Shaq and Dwight in their prime , and morphed them into one player.. then multiplied that by 3 ... But also, Wilt wasn't just an under the basket guy.. He could actually shoot the ball..

Him and Bill Russell had one hell of a rivalry.. Russell got the better of him in winning more titles due to having the better team, But Wilt was most definitely the better player.. but Bill himself was the closest big man behind him.. IMO..

Kstat
03-02-2012, 06:49 PM
Wilt was the most dominant player of all time. Not the best, but the most dominant.

He's actually the player I like to compare LeBron James to. He could do so many things on a basketball floor that he was basically a one-man army. He could beat entire teams by himself. Ironically, his own greatness is what hurt his teams in the playoffs. He had a hard time grasping a team concept.

BlueNGold
03-02-2012, 07:03 PM
I saw Wilt play in his later years. While his overall talent level is higher than any center I've ever seen, I'd still take Shaq in his prime over Wilt. Different eras, but if they were brought into the same era on the same court the paint would still be Shaq's.

DaveP63
03-02-2012, 07:04 PM
I wasn't born yet for the 100 point game, but I got to see him play a little. It's hard to describe how good he really was. It's like the athletic seven foot kid that plays for the small town high school and just head and shoulders (HA) above the other kids. He could score every point if he wanted, but he didn't. But he could, you know?

When he was talking about coming back when he was like 50, I'm not sure that he couldn't have done it.

Peck
03-02-2012, 07:22 PM
He led the league in assists. There is nothing more to add.

Major Cold
03-02-2012, 07:38 PM
Wilt would have dominated Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Kareem, and even Shaq.

BlueNGold
03-02-2012, 08:05 PM
Wilt would have dominated Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Kareem, and even Shaq.

FWIW, Kareem played Wilt pretty effectively. I've seen clips where he owned Wilt, although it was in his latter years. But yes, Wilt was the better player. Amazingly, he was more talented, athletic and physical than Kareem.

But I think Wilt's legend has grown beyond what he really was. Yes, he would have dominated Robinson and Ewing. Not so much Hakeem and Kareem. Hakeem was basically a bigger version of Bill Russell defensively. I think it would have been a great matchup between him and the pre-2000 Shaq. Overall I agree Wilt > Shaq but for a period of time Shaq was so dominant in the paint I cannot imagine Wilt having much room in there. Shaq was enormous...almost beyond human...55 lbs heavier than Wilt and both taller and longer....and while not that athletic he was pretty mobile in his 20's. He would have swatted shots and been very difficult for Wilt to guard on the other end. It really would have been epic.

Slick Pinkham
03-02-2012, 09:54 PM
FWIW, Kareem played Wilt pretty effectively. I've seen clips where he owned Wilt, although it was in his latter years.

Kareem's first four years coincided with Wilt's last 4 years, that is the only reason. Even a young Kareem never made 1st team all-defensive center over an old Wilt. Wilt's final season, he set a record for field goal percentage (72.7%) and led the league in rebounds.

career numbers:
Wilt Chamberlain 30.1 ppg, 22.9 rpg, 4.4 apg
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 24.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.6 apg

None of this is to deride Kareem, because I do believe Kareem was one of the 5 greatest centers in history, but he simply was no Wilt.

details borrowed from: http://wiltfan.tripod.com/wiltrules.html

In looking over their head-to-head matchups, they faced each other 28 times, with 14 wins apiece.

Wilt bested Kareem in both scoring and rebounding 6 times, Kareem got the better of Wilt 10 times, 5 of which occured in the 6 meetings in Wilt's last year when he scored just 14 ppg for the season, but he got 16 rpg in those 6 games. Wilt was still the second most productive player in the NBA in his last season, when he retired after 14 seasons. Kareem was the 136th in his retirement year, and the Lakers won 6 more games after Vlade Divac replaced him in the lineup. http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/3402

Wilt was the only person to block Kareem's sky hook in his prime. Three times he had 10 or more blocked shots in a game vs. Kareem's team, with at least 5 of them being shots by Kareem.


Reg. season (head-to-head)

Abdul-Jabbar: 31.8 PPG, 15.8 RPG
Chamberlain: 16.3 PPG, 17.6 RPG
Chamberlain won 9, Abdul-Jabbar won 8


Postseason (head-to-head)

Abdul-Jabbar: 29.7 PPG, 17.9 RPG
Chamberlain: 15.9 PPG, 19.1 RPG
Abdul-Jabbar won 6, Chamberlain won 5



Overall, the decade older role player held his own pretty well. Kareem had the upper hand in scoring by then, but it was not domination.

TheDavisBrothers
03-02-2012, 10:04 PM
FWIW, Kareem played Wilt pretty effectively. I've seen clips where he owned Wilt, although it was in his latter years. But yes, Wilt was the better player. Amazingly, he was more talented, athletic and physical than Kareem.

You can't compare a guy in his absolute prime vs a guy in the twilight of his career...

xBulletproof
03-02-2012, 10:17 PM
I'm only 30 so I can't say I saw Wilt play, but what is the reasoning for his wild fluctuations in his stats? The guy had years with 2-3 assists, and then would quickly have over 8 assists a season or two later? Years shooting 68% and the next year at 54% or something.

I mean it's clear he focused on shooting less and passing more in some seasons more so than others. I'm not sure why though. He had pretty much the same talent around him from what I can see some of those years.

Hicks
03-02-2012, 11:04 PM
He led the league in assists. There is nothing more to add.

To be fair, couldn't that have been simply because defenses would force him to pass out of double and triple teams? I only say that because sometimes high assists make a player seem like a great passer when perhaps it just reflects a WILLING passer who was a phenomenal scorer.

BlueNGold
03-02-2012, 11:32 PM
Kareem's first four years coincided with Wilt's last 4 years, that is the only reason. Even a young Kareem never made 1st team all-defensive center over an old Wilt. Wilt's final season, he set a record for field goal percentage (72.7%) and led the league in rebounds.

career numbers:
Wilt Chamberlain 30.1 ppg, 22.9 rpg, 4.4 apg
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 24.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.6 apg

None of this is to deride Kareem, because I do believe Kareem was one of the 5 greatest centers in history, but he simply was no Wilt.

details borrowed from: http://wiltfan.tripod.com/wiltrules.html

In looking over their head-to-head matchups, they faced each other 28 times, with 14 wins apiece.

Wilt bested Kareem in both scoring and rebounding 6 times, Kareem got the better of Wilt 10 times, 5 of which occured in the 6 meetings in Wilt's last year when he scored just 14 ppg for the season, but he got 16 rpg in those 6 games. Wilt was still the second most productive player in the NBA in his last season, when he retired after 14 seasons. Kareem was the 136th in his retirement year, and the Lakers won 6 more games after Vlade Divac replaced him in the lineup. http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/3402

Wilt was the only person to block Kareem's sky hook in his prime. Three times he had 10 or more blocked shots in a game vs. Kareem's team, with at least 5 of them being shots by Kareem.


Reg. season (head-to-head)

Abdul-Jabbar: 31.8 PPG, 15.8 RPG
Chamberlain: 16.3 PPG, 17.6 RPG
Chamberlain won 9, Abdul-Jabbar won 8


Postseason (head-to-head)

Abdul-Jabbar: 29.7 PPG, 17.9 RPG
Chamberlain: 15.9 PPG, 19.1 RPG
Abdul-Jabbar won 6, Chamberlain won 5



Overall, the decade older role player held his own pretty well. Kareem had the upper hand in scoring by then, but it was not domination.

Oh, I agree Wilt was the better player in his prime. No need to convince me about that. But people look at his 100 point game and think he was well beyond anything else we've ever seen at the center position. I don't believe that's true.

The reality is, Kareem's most effective years in the NBA were his 2nd and 3rd years. I highly suspect the league as a whole became more competitive as time went on, and Wilt Chamberlain's ridiculous numbers would have never happened in the modern era or maybe even in the 1970's. Props to him for being before his time, but he wasn't dramatically better than Hakeem Olajuwon. Also, I think he'd have his hands full with Shaq...who has over 100 lbs on Kareem...who Wilt could over power at times.

In any event, I wish Wilt had come along 20 years later rather than in an era where PF's were 6'6". It would have been entirely different...

Slick Pinkham
03-02-2012, 11:56 PM
Since there were only 8 teams in the league, Wilt played more games against Hall of Fame centers than any center ever. I mentioned he played Russell 143 times. Shaq would face Hakeem, Ewing, or Duncan at most 4 times a year each in a lot of seasons, for example.

There is a lot of discussion about the era, but nobody had ever scored 30 ppg until he entered the league- not even once. His dominance and Celtics fast break basketball, copied by so many others, transformed the game.

Pacerized
03-03-2012, 12:32 AM
Oh, I agree Wilt was the better player in his prime. No need to convince me about that. But people look at his 100 point game and think he was well beyond anything else we've ever seen at the center position. I don't believe that's true.

The reality is, Kareem's most effective years in the NBA were his 2nd and 3rd years. I highly suspect the league as a whole became more competitive as time went on, and Wilt Chamberlain's ridiculous numbers would have never happened in the modern era or maybe even in the 1970's. Props to him for being before his time, but he wasn't dramatically better than Hakeem Olajuwon. Also, I think he'd have his hands full with Shaq...who has over 100 lbs on Kareem...who Wilt could over power at times.

In any event, I wish Wilt had come along 20 years later rather than in an era where PF's were 6'6". It would have been entirely different...

It seems that we've almost gone full circle and we're back to 6'6" pf's today.
We were spoiled in the 90's with so many great centers and big men playing the game. I wasn't alive when the 100 point game happened and I honestly don't remember much about Wilt's playing days. In my adult life I'd say Hakeem in his prime was the most dominate center, he made a young Shaq look out of his league. I'd still think Wilt in his prime would have been a notch above both of them.

3 8 thee great t h
03-03-2012, 01:27 AM
100 points in a game
55 rebounds in a game
72% shooting a season
50 point avg for a season
Most min played in a season
Etc etc

Wilt who I believed is the greatest player of all time!

BobbyMac
03-03-2012, 09:21 AM
I'm only 30 so I can't say I saw Wilt play, but what is the reasoning for his wild fluctuations in his stats? The guy had years with 2-3 assists, and then would quickly have over 8 assists a season or two later? Years shooting 68% and the next year at 54% or something.

I mean it's clear he focused on shooting less and passing more in some seasons more so than others. I'm not sure why though. He had pretty much the same talent around him from what I can see some of those years.

When the coach ask him to score , he did (more than anyone else), when the coach ask him to pass, he did (let the league in assists) and always played defense and rebounded.

OlBlu
03-03-2012, 09:52 AM
I saw Wilt play in his later years. While his overall talent level is higher than any center I've ever seen, I'd still take Shaq in his prime over Wilt. Different eras, but if they were brought into the same era on the same court the paint would still be Shaq's.

Shaq would have had no chance against Wilt. Will weighed almost 300 lbs but it was all muscle. He was the strongest man in the NBA. Remember that shoving and pushing (fouling) the way Shaq played was not allowed then. If it had been, Wilt might have averaged 50 for his career...... Wilt had a great verticle leap. Some say it was 48 inches. He was also the fasted man on the teams he played for. ......... :cool:

DrFife
03-03-2012, 09:57 AM
I enjoyed seeing Wilt make Arnold Schwarzenegger look like the Stay Puft Marshmellow in the Conan sequel.

BlueNGold
03-03-2012, 07:21 PM
Here's one of the more interesting articles about the Wilt vs Shaq comparison. Pretty balanced but Wilt definitely comes out on top based on knowledgeable NBA people:

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2006/05/classic-confrontation-wilt-versus-shaq.html
Source: 20secondtimeout

BlueNGold
03-03-2012, 07:51 PM
Kareem's first four years coincided with Wilt's last 4 years, that is the only reason. Even a young Kareem never made 1st team all-defensive center over an old Wilt. Wilt's final season, he set a record for field goal percentage (72.7%) and led the league in rebounds.

career numbers:
Wilt Chamberlain 30.1 ppg, 22.9 rpg, 4.4 apg
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 24.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.6 apg

None of this is to deride Kareem, because I do believe Kareem was one of the 5 greatest centers in history, but he simply was no Wilt.
...snip


Excellent post.

I would only add that Wilt was 36 his last season in the league. As a comparison, Tim Duncan is averaging 18 and 11 and turns 36 next month.

So, what I'm saying is that Wilt was not yet in the grave for those 4 years and it could be that he was beginning to face better players.

That's not to say I don't think Wilt was the greatest of all time. I just think his god-like stats would have never happened in the 1990's...and his legacy simply wouldn't be as amazing as it is.

TheDavisBrothers
03-03-2012, 07:55 PM
Excellent post.

I would only add that Wilt was 36 his last season in the league. As a comparison, Tim Duncan is averaging 18 and 11 and turns 36 next month.

So, what I'm saying is that Wilt was not yet in the grave for those 4 years and it could be that he was beginning to face better players.

That's not to say I don't think Wilt was the greatest of all time. I just think his god-like stats would have never happened in the 1990's...and his legacy simply wouldn't be as amazing as it is.

What are you smoking? Duncan's averaging 14.2 and 8.6

BlueNGold
03-03-2012, 08:10 PM
What are you smoking? Duncan's averaging 14.2 and 8.6

I was looking at the 36 minute stats, so I stand corrected. Still, his minutes and therefore his production are both down because the Spurs want to save him for the playoffs. I don't think his effectiveness has fell off a cliff. It's not what it once was for sure, but the point still stands. If Wilt was far and away better than Kareem he still would have dominated him. Age was not the overriding factor. It was a factor, but it's being overstated.

TheDavisBrothers
03-03-2012, 08:30 PM
I was looking at the 36 minute stats, so I stand corrected. Still, his minutes and therefore his production are both down because the Spurs want to save him for the playoffs. I don't think his effectiveness has fell off a cliff. It's not what it once was for sure, but the point still stands. If Wilt was far and away better than Kareem he still would have dominated him. Age was not the overriding factor. It was a factor, but it's being overstated.

It most certianly was the overriding factor. It's absolutely asinine to assume a 36 year old is gonna hang with a 25 year old, especially in that time period.

Jordan in his last 2 years against Kobe averaged 14.3, 5.8 and 5.3
Kobe in those same games averaged 29.8, 6.0 and 7.0
So is Kobe better then Jordan? HELL NO!

Also, Duncan is still a very good player, but he's no where close to what he was in his prime, and his game has never been based on great athleticism, so it ages well

clownskull
03-03-2012, 08:55 PM
I was looking at the 36 minute stats, so I stand corrected. Still, his minutes and therefore his production are both down because the Spurs want to save him for the playoffs. I don't think his effectiveness has fell off a cliff. It's not what it once was for sure, but the point still stands. If Wilt was far and away better than Kareem he still would have dominated him. Age was not the overriding factor. It was a factor, but it's being overstated.

I agree with this. I remember seeing some sports show many years ago as a kid on hbo I think. One of the players they were talking about was kareem. And they had wilt talk about him. Wilt said kareem was the 1st player he ever faced that he had trouble guarding one on one.
No doubt wilt is among the games greatest even though I never got to see him however, I definitely think lack of legit competition definitely played a role.
I saw a post by blu mentioning that wilt would dominate shaq. Wilt was never 300 pounds. He got up to about 280 which is still very big but nowhere near as big as shaq. Shaq was in the 330 zone in his prime . Shaq was definitely the biggest, strongest to ever play. Wilt was a more refined player and may even have been able to beat shaq overall in a playoff series. But, dominate him? Not a chance no one ever dominated shaq in a series while he was in shape and played like he still sort of cared.

Pacerized
03-03-2012, 09:16 PM
I saw a post by blu mentioning that wilt would dominate shaq. Wilt was never 300 pounds. He got up to about 280 which is still very big but nowhere near as big as shaq. Shaq was in the 330 zone in his prime . Shaq was definitely the biggest, strongest to ever play. Wilt was a more refined player and may even have been able to beat shaq overall in a playoff series. But, dominate him? Not a chance no one ever dominated shaq in a series while he was in shape and played like he still sort of cared.

I don't feel like looking up the stats but I believe Hakeem dominated Shaq in that series. He was just too quick and agile in the paint for Shaq to guard him. I think Wilt would have done this to a greater degree.
When I think of Wilt's #'s falling off, I think of how sports science has advanced. We still have some players with a very short lived peak but more players seem to be able to play effectively into their late 30's. If Wilt played in the 90's he may have faced more competition. If he played today he would have no real competition. However, he would also have the advantage of today's medical and training advances.

clownskull
03-03-2012, 09:33 PM
I don't feel like looking up the stats but I believe Hakeem dominated Shaq in that series. He was just too quick and agile in the paint for Shaq to guard him. I think Wilt would have done this to a greater degree.
When I think of Wilt's #'s falling off, I think of how sports science has advanced. We still have some players with a very short lived peak but more players seem to be able to play effectively into their late 30's. If Wilt played in the 90's he may have faced more competition. If he played today he would have no real competition. However, he would also have the advantage of today's medical and training advances.

It's been a while since I looked at the stats but if I recall them pretty well- hakeem did NOT dominate shaq. He did make himlook bad on some iso's however, about the only area hakeem outdid him was a slight scoring edge with lower fg%
He generally won the matchup but it was not nearly what some want to believe.

BlueNGold
03-03-2012, 11:46 PM
It's been a while since I looked at the stats but if I recall them pretty well- hakeem did NOT dominate shaq. He did make himlook bad on some iso's however, about the only area hakeem outdid him was a slight scoring edge with lower fg%
He generally won the matchup but it was not nearly what some want to believe.

Yes. People went into that series thinking Shaq would dominate. That didn't happen and that's why Hakeem got a bump out of the series.

Shaq averaged 28.5 points and 12.5 boards with a total of 10 blocks. Hakeem around 33 points and 11 boards with a total of 8 blocks. The Rockets swept and Hakeem consistently seemed to keep Shaq in check. I think that's what surprised people.

But things are never simple. Shaq's FG% was a lot higher. Hakeem put up a lot more shots to get those points. Hakeem shot under .500 for the series...launching it 116 times. Shaq shot very close to .600...on 74 attempts. Perhaps they should have fed Shaq the ball.

BTW, I closely followed that series at the time and I came away with more respect for Olajuwon. So...all things considered...I do think he outplayed Shaq in that series. But the sweep was a team effort.

BlueNGold
03-04-2012, 12:01 AM
It most certianly was the overriding factor. It's absolutely asinine to assume a 36 year old is gonna hang with a 25 year old, especially in that time period.

Jordan in his last 2 years against Kobe averaged 14.3, 5.8 and 5.3
Kobe in those same games averaged 29.8, 6.0 and 7.0
So is Kobe better then Jordan? HELL NO!

Also, Duncan is still a very good player, but he's no where close to what he was in his prime, and his game has never been based on great athleticism, so it ages well

...that was over the course of 4 years...not just Wilt's last year. Wilt was barely 33 that first year and Kareem was a rookie. Even then, Jabbar competed pretty evenly with him. Wilt should have completely dominated the rookie in all aspects of the game at that point. But that did not happen.

Wilt, who had just turned 33 a couple months earlier...in their first matchup when Kareem was a rookie, barely outplayed Kareem. The next year, Kareem is outplaying him. In the latter years, Kareem was completely dominating Wilt.

The following is information I pulled from another blog. I don't know the accuracy of this but I find it quite interesting. This tells me that Wilt is probably better than Kareem but his legend is inflated.

Regular season – 1969-70

1. Date: Fri 10/24/69
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 25 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 9-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 23 pts, 20 rebs, 2 as, 2 blocks, 9-21 FG/FGA L

Regular season – 1970-71

2. Date: Fri 11/20/70
- Chamberlain 28 pts, 23 rebs, 3 as, 10 blocks, 7-20 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 13 rebs, 0 as, 2 blocks, 13-32 FG/FGA W

3. Date: Mon 12/21/70
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 14 rebs, 3 as, 2 blocks, 11-23 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 16 rebs, 0 as, 4 blocks, 17-33 FG/FGA W

4. Date: Fri 02/05/71
- Chamberlain 14 pts, 14 rebs, 3 as, 6 blocks, 7-10 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 27 pts, 10 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA L

5. Date: Thu 02/11/71
- Chamberlain 25 pts, 11 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 21 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 13-30 FG/FGA – 2 blocks against Wilt W

6. Date: Wed 03/03/71
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 13 rebs, 5 as, 8 blocks, 7-15 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 15 pts, 6 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 7-21 FG/FGA W

Post season – 1970-71 – WCF playoffs

7. Date: Fri 04/09/71
- Chamberlain 22 pts, 20 rebs, 1 as, 8 blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA – 3 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 32 pts, 22 rebs, 1 as, 1 blocks, 14-30 FG/FGA W

8. Date: Sun 04/11/71
- Chamberlain 26 pts, 22 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA - Wilt blocked numerious shots L
-Abdul-Jabbar 22 pts, 10 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 9-19 FG/FGA W

9. Date: Wed 04/14/71
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 24 rebs, 3 as, 3 blocks, 9-19 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 20 pts, 19 rebs, 6 as, 0 blocks, 8-16 FG/FGA L

10.Date: Fri 04/16/71
- Chamberlain 15 pts, 16 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 7-14 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 14-20 FG/FGA W

11.Date: Fri 04/16/71
- Chamberlain 23 pts, 12 rebs, 4 as, 6 blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA – 5 blocks against Jabbar L
-Abdul-Jabbar 20 pts, 15 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 7-23 FG/FGA W

Regular season – 1971-72

12.Date: Sat 11/21/71
- Chamberlain 11 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 4-9 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 17 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 17-33 FG/FGA L

13.Date: Sun 01/09/72
- Chamberlain 15 pts, 12 rebs, 2 as, 6 blocks, 7-11 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, 9 blocks, 18-34 FG/FGA W

14.Date: Fri 02/04/72
- Chamberlain 18 pts, 25 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 8-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 40 pts, 18 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 16-33 FG/FGA L

15.Date: Wed 03/01/72
- Chamberlain 8 pts, 17 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 12 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

16.Date: Fri 03/17/72
- Chamberlain 18 pts, 25 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 7-15 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 50 pts, 8 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 22-39 FG/FGA L

Post season – 1971-72 – WCF playoffs

17.Date: Sun 04/09/72
- Chamberlain 10 pts, 24 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 3-12 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 18 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 14-26 FG/FGA W

18.Date: Wed 04/12/72
- Chamberlain 11 pts, 17 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 40 pts, 7 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 18-31 FG/FGA L

19.Date: Fri 04/14/72
- Chamberlain 7 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, 10 blocks, 1-3 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 15-37 FG/FGA L

20.Date: Sun 04/16/72
- Chamberlain 5 pts, 11 rebs, 4 as, 3 blocks, 2-7 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 18 rebs, 3 as, 7 blocks, 14-33 FG/FGA W

21.Date: Tue 04/18/72
- Chamberlain 12 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 2-3 FG/FGA - 4 blocks against Jabbar W
-Abdul-Jabbar 28 pts, 16 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

22.Date: Sat 04/22/72
- Chamberlain 20 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, 9 blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 25 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 16-37 FG/FGA L

Regular season – 1972-73

23.Date: Tue 11/14/72
- Chamberlain 16 pts, 15 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 16 rebs, 6 as, 7 blocks, 17-32 FG/FGA L

24.Date: Tue 12/05/72
- Chamberlain 9 pts, 15 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 4-4 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 17 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 11-30 FG/FGA L

25.Date: Sun 01/07/73
- Chamberlain 9 pts, 18 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 12 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 17-36 FG/FGA W

26.Date: Fri 02/09/73
- Chamberlain 8 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 3-3 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 14-24 FG/FGA W

27.Date: Sun 02/25/73
- Chamberlain 24 pts, 20 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 10-14 FG/FGA W
-Abdul-Jabbar 21 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 10-27 FG/FGA L

28.Date: Tue 03/27/73
- Chamberlain 0 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 0-0 FG/FGA L
-Abdul-Jabbar 24 pts, 17 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 12-31 FG/FGA W

TheDavisBrothers
03-04-2012, 12:06 AM
Especially in that era 33 is at least past your prime and more likely well past your prime, hell even now 33 is past your prime

BlueNGold
03-04-2012, 12:24 AM
Especially in that era 33 is at least past your prime and more likely well past your prime, hell even now 33 is past your prime

Perhaps that's because they played so many minutes. Wilt averaged over 45 minutes a game to Kareem's 36. That right there is part of the stat difference. Not saying Kareem could have averaged 50ppg...but it did take Wilt 48.5 minutes a game that year to do it. I don't mean to diminish that feat because it's amazing, but guys were simply not as tall at the time.

The reality is, Wilt had problems guarding Kareem because he hadn't faced a center with an offensive game like that...one that wasn't shorter than him. Had Wilt played in the 90's, he may have been better but it would not have been complete dominance. IOW, his legacy is inflated...although props to him for being that good so long ago.

TheDavisBrothers
03-04-2012, 12:34 AM
The fact that he played so many minutes is a tribute to his greatness, not a deterrent, I mean could you imagine Shaq playing that many minutes a game? Roy? Having to carry their big bodies around, without a break, they would be dying out their gasping for air

clownskull
03-04-2012, 02:46 PM
i would say the early to mid 90's was the golden age of the big man.
so many great ones or ones who had been great but were past their prime but still pretty good.
anyway, it would be pretty sick what wilt could do in today's league with so many teams using power forwards approximating a center. he thoroughly would abuse guys like howard.

BlueNGold
03-04-2012, 06:22 PM
i would say the early to mid 90's was the golden age of the big man.
so many great ones or ones who had been great but were past their prime but still pretty good.
anyway, it would be pretty sick what wilt could do in today's league with so many teams using power forwards approximating a center. he thoroughly would abuse guys like howard.

This is a good point. Wilt would have fit into today's NBA very well because he was extremely athletic. His numbers wouldn't have been as good as the 1960's, but they'd be a lot better than the late 1980's or 1990's when he'd have to deal with David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, etc. Don't tell me Dale Davis would have backed down either. I cannot imagine Zo or Dale Davis backing down.

BTW, Bill Russell was 6'9" and 215 freaking pounds. Granger is bigger than that guys. Sure, Bill was probably a bad boy, but people need to factor in that Wilt's biggest competition was 60 lbs lighter than him. Fact is, Wilt simply didn't face the same size he would have in the 90's and the result would have been very different.

Slick Pinkham
03-05-2012, 12:13 AM
Fact is, Wilt simply didn't face the same size he would have in the 90's and the result would have been very different.

Here are the NBA players from 1960-1972 6'11" or taller who played at least 3 years in the NBA: (list does not include Wilt Chamberlain)

Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
Mel Counts: 7'0"
Walter Dukes: 7'0"
Jim Eakins: 6'11"
Ray Felix: 6'11"
Hank Finkel: 7'0"
Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
Reggie Harding: 7'0"
Bob Lanier: 6'11"
Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
Otto Moore: 6'11"
Dave Newmark: 7'0"
Rich Niemann: 7'0"
Billy Paultz: 6'11"
Craig Raymond: 6'11"
Elmore Smith: 7'0"
Chuck Share: 6'11"
Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
Walt Wesley: 6'11"

The league had 8 teams when Wilt was a rookie, 16 when he retired

some these guys were stiffs, many were not.

This is posted not to say that players were not generally smaller in the 1960s as opposed to 1990s, but to put facts out there to challenge the notion that he was facing 6'6' power forwards every night