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View Full Version : Croshere started... So what's everyone think?



Anthem
11-13-2004, 04:29 AM
Didn't see the game.

Who liked our starting frontline tonight?

EDIT: Typo. :mad:

Peck
11-13-2004, 04:39 AM
I've made it known before but now's as good a time as any to restate it.

I like Croshere starting with J.O.

You cannot slide off of Cro to weak double J.O. or he will make you pay.

He is a good rebounder & is more than willing to do all of the little things that need to be done.

He is an offensive player who doesn't have to be involved in the offense to be affective.

Foster has his advantages as well, but in a game to game basis I think Austin just brings more to the table.

MSA2CF
11-13-2004, 09:26 AM
If Bender never shows up this season, I believe Austin will be the 6th man for the Pacers, assuming that Reggie is out long enough that Stephen Jackson cannot fit into the role of coming off the bench.

Hicks
11-13-2004, 10:03 AM
I'm warming up to Cro starting. He's been rebounding well, for every dumb mistake, he makes 2-3 big plays that save the team, and as Peck said, unlike with Jeff, you can't leave him open, and he plays good defense in his own right. I think all of that is better than having Jeff in for slightly better D, slightly better rebounding, but 0 offense, and significantly less big plays in the end of games.

ABADays
11-13-2004, 10:19 AM
As the driver of his bandwagon, I always knew it was there with the chance.

Unclebuck
11-13-2004, 10:53 AM
It is more difficult to defend my man when he is injured. Let me first say that Croshere has played well, his defense has not hurt us too much, but the interior defense is just significantly better when Foster is in the game. Jeff is just a much better one-on-one defender and a better team defender than Croshere. As I have said over and over again J.O and Jeff are a great defensive tandem

I will say that Croshere and Pollard have played their way into the regular rotation even when the Pacers have all their guys healthy. Harrison needs to sit and learn a little and get into shape.

I realize I am getting off the topic here.

But let's see who all should be in the regular rotation.

Tinsley
Reggie
Artest
Foster
J.O

AJ
Fred Jones
Jackson
Croshere,
Pollard
Bender

That is 11 guys right there assuming Bender starts playing. Pacers are deep, really deep

Mourning
11-13-2004, 12:24 PM
Yes, and to continue this off-topic a little more ... I personally think we are a little too deep.

I would like to see a 2 for 1, 3 for 2 or even a 3 for 1. We can't give everyone enough minutes. Even though Reggie retires next year that doesn't mean a lot of minutes that would be gained.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Anthem
11-13-2004, 12:40 PM
Agree completely with being too deep.

People say "If we weren't this deep we'd be having more problems right now" and that's true. We'd have fewer regular-season wins.

But who are gonna be your guys come playoff time? I'd rather consolidate talent into roster spots than be deep.

Hicks
11-13-2004, 01:18 PM
What was our # of men in the rotation during the playoffs? I thought it was still 9 or 10. I know off the bench, AJ played, Bender got some minutes, Croshere played, Harrington played. So we still had at least 9 guys playing. We're never going to have a strict 8-man rotation. Now, that doesn't mean our depth isn't going to be a problem.

The way everyone's been playing, this is so far one of the deepest teams I've seen us have, the only guy I cringe about coming in the game right now is Edwards, everyone else I'm OK with getting some minutes.

But that aside, the IL is gonna see Edwards, James Jones, probably Eddie Gill.

So that leaves Tinsley, Miller, Artest, O'Neal, Foster, Pollard, Jackson, Fred, Croshere, Johnson, Harrison, and Bender.

So there's 12 guys. We can't play THAT many. If I had to guess, Harrison sits, and sadly Fred looks next in line to sit. We have 1 guy too many IMO.

HOWEVER, that problem goes away in a year, when Reggie retires.

Now, if it were up to me, Reggie would be the odd man out, not Fred, but that's another thread.

What was the point of all this ramble again? :laugh:

3Ball
11-13-2004, 01:32 PM
Imagine the irony if here in a couple of years he gets re-signed!

TheSauceMaster
11-13-2004, 01:55 PM
As the driver of his bandwagon, I always knew it was there with the chance.

I with you ABA :amen:

MSA2CF
11-13-2004, 02:08 PM
We don't look too deep when we've got injuries...:whistle:

TheSauceMaster
11-13-2004, 06:04 PM
I think alot of the guys have filled in well , fred jones , austin , remember these are guys that aren't used to playing large mins like some have because of our injuries.

People can bag on Croshere all they like but I think he has did what he's been asked to do , he's filled in Nicely with the Exception of the Clippers game Autsin has been a valuable assest to this team.

I hope once we get healthy that guys like Austin aren't just sentenced to the bench to waste away , same could be said for Fred Jones and Pollard.

Anthem
11-13-2004, 08:58 PM
We don't look too deep when we've got injuries...:whistle:

Did ya read my post?

Anthem
11-14-2004, 02:12 PM
Ok... how bout now? Did anyone want Croshere over Foster tonight?

Anthem
11-14-2004, 02:16 PM
How about this quote by Croshere...

(On being in the starting lineup for more offense) "With me out there on the floor, it really spread the defense a lot more. It makes it difficult for them to double down low on our post players because it takes longer to help dropping down from the perimeter."

Ok, this makes sense, but who was doing the double-teaming last night?

ChicagoJ
11-15-2004, 12:59 PM
JO was double-teamed mostly by Marburry, but the forwards also got into the act. They were mixing up thier double-teams, and were actually somewhat disorganized and frequently a bit late on the double-down.

But mostly, since Tinsley was ice cold shooting, once he made the entry pass NY gambled that his effectiveness was "done". He distributed the ball nicely, so its not like we were really playing 4-on-5, but he's got to shoot or penetrate to the rim well enough to keep 'em honest.

ChicagoJ
11-15-2004, 01:20 PM
What was our # of men in the rotation during the playoffs? I thought it was still 9 or 10. I know off the bench, AJ played, Bender got some minutes, Croshere played, Harrington played. So we still had at least 9 guys playing. We're never going to have a strict 8-man rotation. Now, that doesn't mean our depth isn't going to be a problem.

The way everyone's been playing, this is so far one of the deepest teams I've seen us have, the only guy I cringe about coming in the game right now is Edwards, everyone else I'm OK with getting some minutes.

But that aside, the IL is gonna see Edwards, James Jones, probably Eddie Gill.

So that leaves Tinsley, Miller, Artest, O'Neal, Foster, Pollard, Jackson, Fred, Croshere, Johnson, Harrison, and Bender.

So there's 12 guys. We can't play THAT many. If I had to guess, Harrison sits, and sadly Fred looks next in line to sit. We have 1 guy too many IMO.

HOWEVER, that problem goes away in a year, when Reggie retires.

Now, if it were up to me, Reggie would be the odd man out, not Fred, but that's another thread.

What was the point of all this ramble again? :laugh:

Guys #9 and #10 got spot minutes, but by-and-large we were down to an 8/9 man rotation. When Tinsley was healthy, AJ's minutes were substantially reduced.

JT/RM/RA/JO/Al/FJ/AJ were all at > 20 mpg.

Croshere and Pollard were each less than 20 mpg, but that is somewhat useless data because Croshere and Foster basically flipped thier roles as the "eighth man" in the ECFs.

Bender was at 12 mpg, and played in all 16 games, so although its factually true that 10 guys played in almost all of the games (and, in Bender's case, had thier mpg exaggerated by mop-up time in the Boston series), its a bit of a stretch to call it a 10-man rotation. As for Pollard and Anderson, well they were nowhere to be found most nights.