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Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 01:59 AM
http://blognbasketball.com/2012/03/lakers-looking-at-point-guards/

I have no idea how seriously to take this website. So with that qualifier, here's the report.


In talking to people around the Los Angeles Lakers, upgrading the point guard position has become a priority for Mitch Lupchak and Jim Buss. While L.A. has had interest in names like Ramon Sessions and Kirk Hinrich for years, the odds of swinging a deal for either may be slim.

I am hearing that, if no other deal can be made before the deadline, the team will look to swing a smaller trade for a point guard in the 11th hour.

Two names the Lakers are closely monitoring are Will Bynum of the Detroit Pistons and A.J. Price of the Indiana Pacers. Bynum particularly is a favorite of Mitch Kupchak’s for his explosiveness and ability to create shots for others.

Should the Lakers fail to swing a deal sources say their final option would be to sign free agent guard Gilbert Arenas.

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 02:05 AM
Oh no we are going to lose Sookie ..... :onozomg: :D




Hey I'm down if we can get a pick for him.

Anthem
03-02-2012, 02:07 AM
Hey I'm down if we can get a pick for him.
Yep. I like AJ a lot, but if you can even a late 1st-rounder it's a solid move.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 02:12 AM
Artest, McBob, Murphy, Mike Brown, AJ. Pacers West.

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 02:16 AM
Yep. I like AJ a lot, but if you can even a late 1st-rounder it's a solid move.

With the way the Lakers are playing it could probably be a good pick.

CableKC
03-02-2012, 02:16 AM
Yep. I like AJ a lot, but if you can even a late 1st-rounder it's a solid move.
I like what AJ can do....but even I doubt that the Lakers would give up a 1st round pick...likely to be in the late teens / early 20s...for AJ.

I'm guessing a 2nd round pick would be the offer.

ksuttonjr76
03-02-2012, 02:16 AM
Interesting. I would do it for a late 1st rounder in this year's draft, so we can get us a descent backup center.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 02:17 AM
Something like a 2nd and the rights to an international prospect like Chinemelu Elonu is probably the return you could expect. No way can I see them sending a 1st.

xBulletproof
03-02-2012, 02:20 AM
You'd have to fly out there and get the whole front office and owner high and drunk to talk them into a 1st round pick. I hope I'm wrong, but that's how I feel.

I would expect a couple 2nd round picks in return at most, so I doubt we do it if we feel he can help win some games this year.

Jessen
03-02-2012, 02:22 AM
Something like a 2nd and the rights to an international prospect like Chinemelu Elonu is probably the return you could expect. No way can I see them sending a 1st.

Agreed. Absolutely no way AJ nets us a 1st round pick. It would be quite awesome if it somehow happened though.

Pacer Fan
03-02-2012, 02:46 AM
If Pacers was to pick up a pg in another trade and we was to obtain DC in the process, what about Darius Morris or Devin Ebanks and a 2nd for AJ.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 02:59 AM
Artest, McBob, Murphy, Mike Brown, AJ. Pacers West.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

It's amazing because it's true.

About the rumor now. I don't think that it's true but let's talk as if it true.

First things first. I love what AJ brings to the floor for us. I believe that our bench would be way worse without him and we could lose some games if it was not for AJ.

That said, if we were to receive a 1st round pick for him we should do the deal. I'd still continue to watch AJ's career though as I believe that he'll turn out to be a very solid NBA player :)

If they were to offer us a 2nd round pick and the rights to Chinemelu Elonu I'd be torn. I understand that it would be fair deal given AJ's trade value. But I don't think I'd do it. We would really lack a PG off the bench as Stephenson is still a jumper away before being able to play PG (imo, of course).

Also, I'm not sure how Chinemelu Elonu's game would translate in the NBA. This season (playing in the French league) he is averaging 10.4 PPG, 8 RPG, 1.9 BPG, 0.8 APG and 0.5 SPG in 24.8 MPG. He is shooting in a very good clip (63.9%) but he is a mediocre free throw shooter (59.2%). He is 6'10", 235 lbs and seems somewhat athletic but he does not seem fast. Also, he is 24 and still is very raw offensively. Good defender and rebounder, though. Lacks post moves from what I know.

Here's a video of him helping his side win a game:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jMRspuf0qJI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jMRspuf0qJI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

On the plus side, the French league albeit being relatively poor compared to other European leagues is kinda modeled after the NBA in terms of athleticism. So, if he can play C there, he could probably play C in the NBA as well.

Not saying that he is not worthy of a spot in an NBA rotation, I just don't see him being anything other than a good defensive b/u big man. Not that I'd have a problem with it ;)

Now, if we were to give Price to the Spurs and take the rights of Nando De Colo, Ryan Richards or even Adam Hanga I'd be all in :D

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 03:04 AM
By the way I really hope Mcbob is not included on the deal if the deal is true.

Jessen
03-02-2012, 03:14 AM
By the way I really hope Mcbob is not included on the deal if the deal is true.

But, but...Mcbob can dunk! :-p

Will Galen
03-02-2012, 03:41 AM
I see no reason to help the Lakers, period. I would rather have AJ, than a 2nd rounder from them.

The thing is for a trade to work with the Lakers we would have to take someone back. Troy Murphy anyone? (giggle) He has the exact same salary as Price. So does Jason Kapono. ($854,000) Actually I would rather have Mcbob back if we were to trade with them.

Strummer
03-02-2012, 04:08 AM
The thing is for a trade to work with the Lakers we would have to take someone back.

I haven't researched this, but I think they have a trade exception from the Lamar Odom deal that would cover AJ with room to spare.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 04:37 AM
I haven't researched this, but I think they have a trade exception from the Lamar Odom deal that would cover AJ with room to spare.

They do but there's no way that they'are gonna use it in order to acquire AJ.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 04:42 AM
They do but there's no way that they'are gonna use it in order to acquire AJ.They'd only have to use 800k (or whatever AJ makes) of it. They'd still have the rest. Right? I think?

Hypnotiq
03-02-2012, 04:43 AM
i dunno AJ has kinda impressed me the last few games

very nice cheap option for a backup guard and all we get is 2nd rounder

nah.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 04:45 AM
If this were baseball the Lakers would be demanding AJ as Brian Shaw compensation.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 04:48 AM
They'd only have to use 800k (or whatever AJ makes) of it. They'd still have the rest. Right? I think?

I'm not sure. Theoretically, they should have the rest. However, seeing that they want Calderon so bad but miss out to him only for 1mil would make them think twice before spending any amount of that exception.


i dunno AJ has kinda impressed me the last few games

very nice cheap option for a backup guard and all we get is 2nd rounder

nah.

I'm not willing to trade him for a 2nd rounder either. For a 1st rounder, I'm willing to trade him but I don't think he can land that much. For a 2nd rounder and an international prospect I'd think about it and it would heavily depend on the prospect in question.

At least, that's my take ;)

rexnom
03-02-2012, 05:08 AM
Why would we trade our solid backup point for a 2nd rounder? That makes very little sense to me. It's 1st rounder or bust. 2nd rounders are very easy to come by, especially ones as poor as LA's.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 08:25 AM
I like AJ, but if we got a 2nd and the rights to this Elonu character (who I have extreme doubts would even be considered an NBA prospect, ever), nothing I'd jump at to be clear, nothing like that, but I'd be fine with that return. I've gotta assume AJ's time is done here after this year and he could carve out a legitimate role in LA and parlay that into future success, I'd be happy for him. I don't see that opportunity for him here, nor do I see him being on the roster as any sort of plus or minus. Make it an AJ/Ebanks swap, cool, where do I sign?

tsm612
03-02-2012, 08:31 AM
I wonder if they would do a swap, Price for McBob, since he's not getting a lot of playing time there. If Memphis is still interested in him, it may be an opportunity to make another run at OJ Mayo with a three team trade.

PacerPenguins
03-02-2012, 08:31 AM
AJ Price was a steal in the 2nd round with our pick... no way I'm only trading him for a 2nd and getting stuck with a person that plays 2 min a game when we are up 20. i want to keep AJ bc LA won't give anything significant

PacerPenguins
03-02-2012, 08:31 AM
I wonder if they would do a swap, Price for McBob, since he's not getting a lot of playing time there. If Memphis is still interested in him, it may be an opportunity to make another run at OJ Mayo with a three team trade.

so West,Hans,McBob? I don't see that being a problem at all

2minutes twoa
03-02-2012, 08:35 AM
Definitely hold out for a first. A second does nothing for us.

Then, you have a lot of options. Use the pick to sweeten the offer for Rondo. Use our first to obtain Kaman. Use the extra first to move up in the draft or just go in with two firsts in a deep draft.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 08:39 AM
It's completely unbelievable to get a 1st, no matter how late it is, for AJ. The Lakers need a PG, but they don't need one THAT bad, they have guys on the roster than can play the position. Morris specifically, who it makes no sense they don't at least give a trial run.

If you think that's what we should hold out for, that's fine, I don't entirely disagree. I just don't think it's at all realistic a proposal.

Really?
03-02-2012, 08:40 AM
Realistically in Indy, Aj is a backup to the backup PG, we already have a decent amount of depth there, if you can turn that into a 2nd round pick you might as well do it.

What we really need is another SF.

AJ and our 2nd for Devin Ebanks would not be too bad in my opinion.

Really?
03-02-2012, 08:44 AM
It's completely unbelievable to get a 1st, no matter how late it is, for AJ. The Lakers need a PG, but they don't need one THAT bad, they have guys on the roster than can play the position. Morris specifically, who it makes no sense they don't at least give a trial run.

If you think that's what we should hold out for, that's fine, I don't entirely disagree. I just don't think it's at all realistic a proposal.

Yeah at this point anyone who thinks we can get a 1st for AJ Price is delusional, someone hears a team is interested in a player at automatically assumes the team would be willing to give up a 1st for that player.

Lakers are trying to do 2 things, add another point and save money, AJ fits both of those needs but not so much so they would give up a 1st overall. Only way we would get a first is if we took the contract of Luck Walton or something...

2minutes twoa
03-02-2012, 08:50 AM
It's completely unbelievable to get a 1st, no matter how late it is, for AJ. The Lakers need a PG, but they don't need one THAT bad, they have guys on the roster than can play the position. Morris specifically, who it makes no sense they don't at least give a trial run.

If you think that's what we should hold out for, that's fine, I don't entirely disagree. I just don't think it's at all realistic a proposal.

I totally agree! He's not worth a first, but he's worth more than a second. Basically saying, "We're not moving him unless it's a great deal for us."

Bball
03-02-2012, 08:58 AM
If AJ could carve out a role in LA with the Lakers then why would we even consider trading him for a 2nd round pick... and I'd have to think long and hard about trading for a late first round pick.

Really?
03-02-2012, 08:58 AM
I totally agree! He's not worth a first, but he's worth more than a second. Basically saying, "We're not moving him unless it's a great deal for us."

What does he really offer us unless someone gets hurt, his last game against GS he shot 3 3pt shots, made 1, 4 reb, 1 stl, 3 points, 2 turnovers... this was in 12 minutes. He is not really a defensive presence and with George Hill getting back healthy his minutes are just going to keep decreasing.

Sparhawk
03-02-2012, 09:01 AM
I say trade AJ for Darius or for a pick.

Sign Arenas on our own. Guy has something to prove and the Pacers could really use him. He'd probably sign for cheap and you don't have to give up anything for him.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 09:02 AM
It's completely unbelievable to get a 1st, no matter how late it is, for AJ. The Lakers need a PG, but they don't need one THAT bad, they have guys on the roster than can play the position. Morris specifically, who it makes no sense they don't at least give a trial run.

If you think that's what we should hold out for, that's fine, I don't entirely disagree. I just don't think it's at all realistic a proposal.

That's completely true. However, it wouldn't make sense for us to trade him for a 2nd.

That's why I don't think that this deal will fall through even if the article is correct about Lakers interest in AJ.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:02 AM
Who trades a first round pick for a average back up. I think the thing they like about him is that he has some Derek Fisher in him, meaning you can kick it out to him and he should hit open 3's, What he does once he gets traded is really irrelevant to the actual trade. What has he shown so far that would make you think he deserves to be traded for a 1st, even a late.

Better yet show me some trades where a person of AJ Price was traded for a 1st round pick?

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 09:06 AM
That's completely true. However, it wouldn't make sense for us to trade him for a 2nd.

That's why I don't think that this deal will fall through even if the article is correct about Lakers interest in AJ.
Right, and I'm fine with that point of view, I don't disagree. I'm just saying I can't see AJ being on the team next year, and I don't think he makes much of a difference at all this year, so if it nets a future asset then cool. But it'd be such a minor asset then I'd be fine w/o doing it just the same.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:06 AM
Hey,

Just wanted to add this..

Lakers traded their 2nd round pick to Dallas, and only have the 2nd of the Bulls.

Which will most likely be the last pick of the draft.

In this case I would say not to trade it unless it was a future 2nd.

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:07 AM
Let's trade a solid backup who isn't a problem in the locker room to the Lakers for a second round pick who might not end up being anything!

I love helping the Lakers!

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 09:07 AM
What does he really offer us unless someone gets hurt, his last game against GS he shot 3 3pt shots, made 1, 4 reb, 1 stl, 3 points, 2 turnovers... this was in 12 minutes. He is not really a defensive presence and with George Hill getting back healthy his minutes are just going to keep decreasing.

He keeps the second unit's offense flowing. And while he is not a great defender he is capable of holding his own. In general, he has been quite efficient as of late.

You cannot get that out of a second round pick at the moment.

HC
03-02-2012, 09:10 AM
He keeps the second unit's offense flowing. And while he is not a great defender he is capable of holding his own. In general, he has been quite efficient as of late.

You cannot get that out of a second round pick at the moment.

Agree. May as well just forego the 2nd round pick and take McBob.

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:11 AM
I wasn't really thinking about George Hill, but even with the increased depth with his return, AJ is a guy who can come in and nail some shots and keep the offense going. We know what we have in him, why trade him for a second round pick whom might never even play for us?

I guess a lot of you guys are closet Lakers fans.... :devil:

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 09:11 AM
Who trades a first round pick for a average back up.

As I said no one. But we're not looking it from the Lakers perspective. Nor do we say that he is worth it.

We're just saying that it is not worth it if it's just a 2nd round pick. If they were to add an international prospect I could talk about it. But I'm not too excited about Elonu either.

Now, if this was the Spurs and we were talking about their international prospects (De Colo, Richards, Hanga) I could see me doing this.

For a 1st in a deep draft it could be a steal.

AJ has been really useful to us this season and it would be almost stupid to trade him for almost nothing.

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:13 AM
I really can't get over how many people who are ready to basically just give AJ to the Lakers.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:16 AM
He keeps the second unit's offense flowing. And while he is not a great defender he is capable of holding his own. In general, he has been quite efficient as of late.

You cannot get that out of a second round pick at the moment.

Why can't you get that out of a 2nd round pick, that is what they are there for... He was a 2nd round pick himself.

What is the point of looking at as of late, over the season his numbers have been horrible even when he got in the games. The only reason he is doing anything right now to help the team is because of the Hill situation, and after that he will go back to getting less than 15 minutes a game.

Unless we are planning on using him more, which would not make sense if Hill is healthy then he can only have so much affect on our team.

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:19 AM
Rumor has it the Lakers are willing to give us a Lakers 2010 NBA Champions shirt for AJ.

Do it, Larry! :happydanc

2minutes twoa
03-02-2012, 09:21 AM
What does he really offer us unless someone gets hurt, his last game against GS he shot 3 3pt shots, made 1, 4 reb, 1 stl, 3 points, 2 turnovers... this was in 12 minutes. He is not really a defensive presence and with George Hill getting back healthy his minutes are just going to keep decreasing.

After a slow start where he got very little minutes, he's averaged 8.1 points, 2.2 assists and shot 47% from the field and 33% from three in the last 10 games where he only played an average of 17.1 minutes. No those stats don't blow you away, but they're solid back up numbers and he seems to be a nice presence on the bench and the locker room. I don't see where a middle second round pick brings you more than that.

Now there are plenty of players and picks I would trade him for, but as far as the Lakers are concerned, we could talk players like Blake and Ebanks, but not a second rounder.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 09:22 AM
Rumor has it the Lakers are willing to give us a Lakers 2010 NBA Champions shirt for AJ.

Do it, Larry! :happydancIt'd at least have some use after this season.

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:24 AM
It's at least have some use after this season.
So we're looking forward to next year? :devil:

tinsley#11
03-02-2012, 09:25 AM
I just don't see this being true, but if we want to run with this, it goes something like this.

Pacers receive: OJ Mayo

Memphis receives: Josh McRoberts

Lakers receive: Dahntay Jones and AJ Price

Of course there would be some picks thrown around in there, but that is the basis to make sense for everyone, assuming they do have interest in AJ.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 09:25 AM
So we're looking forward to next year? :devil:
Uhh, yes. Unless you think AJ's the difference between...pretty much anything this season.

tsm612
03-02-2012, 09:26 AM
so West,Hans,McBob? I don't see that being a problem at all

I didn't say we would get McBob in that scenario. Memphis would. My idea was a three team trade to get Mayo.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 09:28 AM
I just don't see this being true, but if we want to run with this, it goes something like this.

Pacers receive: OJ Mayo

Memphis receives: Josh McRoberts

Lakers receive: Dahntay Jones and AJ Price

Of course there would be some picks thrown around in there, but that is the basis to make sense for everyone, assuming they do have interest in AJ.LA'd happily trade some scrub contract from Memphis for McBob and do a separate deal for Mayo with their TPE. No reason to involve us. Also, the McBob stuff is dead. Memphis got Speights and they're fine with it.

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:29 AM
Uhh, yes. Unless you think AJ's the difference between...pretty much anything this season.
Uhh, he's a better option than Lance right now, IMO.

If Hill gets hurt again and we don't have AJ, it won't be pretty.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:29 AM
I really can't get over how many people who are ready to basically just give AJ to the Lakers.

Lol, it is not giving him up for nothing, do you know where AJ got picked at, 2nd rd the 22nd pick. If the Lakers had their 2nd rounder it would be at that same area.

Which in last years draft could have turned out to be Josh Selby, Etwuan Moore, or Isaiah Thomas.

Thing is there is still talent left in the 2nd round, AJ most likely will not play a vital role in the team this year so why not try to add another prospect who will have a rookie level contract that we can try to groom for the future.

Or you guys could get a international prospect in the draft if you wanted.

In trades unless it is a trade that goes of the performance of a pick you are not going to get value for what a team does with that player. If he turns out to be good for them than fine that is what they wanted, he will never reach that as a Pacer so our value for him is a lot less, but our value of bringing in a potential building piece for the future seems to be a lot more, in respect of adding quality young guys to the team.

There are guys out there just like Price who are free agents, or were, just look at Mike James, AJ is not as hard to replace as you would think.

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:30 AM
LA'd happily trade some scrub contract from Memphis for McBob and do a separate deal for Mayo with their TPE. No reason to involve us. Also, the McBob stuff is dead. Memphis got Speights and they're fine with it.
That's what I thought as well, they don't care about Josh anymore. We had that chance last year.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:32 AM
After a slow start where he got very little minutes, he's averaged 8.1 points, 2.2 assists and shot 47% from the field and 33% from three in the last 10 games where he only played an average of 17.1 minutes. No those stats don't blow you away, but they're solid back up numbers and he seems to be a nice presence on the bench and the locker room. I don't see where a middle second round pick brings you more than that.

Now there are plenty of players and picks I would trade him for, but as far as the Lakers are concerned, we could talk players like Blake and Ebanks, but not a second rounder.

Ebanks was a 2nd rounder, Steve Blake was a 2nd rounder, lol I don't get what you guys have against 2nd round picks but don't mind getting guys who were taken there?

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:32 AM
Lol, it is not giving him up for nothing, do you know where AJ got picked at, 2nd rd the 22nd pick. If the Lakers had their 2nd rounder it would be at that same area.

Which in last years draft could have turned out to be Josh Selby, Etwuan Moore, or Isaiah Thomas.

Thing is there is still talent left in the 2nd round, AJ most likely will not play a vital role in the team this year so why not try to add another prospect who will have a rookie level contract that we can try to groom for the future.

Or you guys could get a international prospect in the draft if you wanted.

In trades unless it is a trade that goes of the performance of a pick you are not going to get value for what a team does with that player. If he turns out to be good for them than fine that is what they wanted, he will never reach that as a Pacer so our value for him is a lot less, but our value of bringing in a potential building piece for the future seems to be a lot more, in respect of adding quality young guys to the team.

There are guys out there just like Price who are free agents, or were, just look at Mike James, AJ is not as hard to replace as you would think.
Isn't Hill a FA after this year? What if he bolts?

tsm612
03-02-2012, 09:36 AM
Isn't Hill a FA after this year? What if he bolts?

Hill is a RFA. We can match any offers for him.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 09:37 AM
Why can't you get that out of a 2nd round pick, that is what they are there for... He was a 2nd round pick himself.

The key word of my phrase was at the moment. AJ is playing for us at the moment. A pick won't play for us at the moment. And it is in this particular moment that we need AJ for. Someone has to play PG in the second unit and Price is currently our best option.



What is the point of looking at as of late, over the season his numbers have been horrible even when he got in the games. The only reason he is doing anything right now to help the team is because of the Hill situation, and after that he will go back to getting less than 15 minutes a game.

Unless we are planning on using him more, which would not make sense if Hill is healthy then he can only have so much affect on our team.

AJ Price was only getting some garbage minutes in January when he played. In our first 20 games (till the Nets game that Hill was injured) he only played in 8 games.

It was quite logical that he would be rusty. As of lately he is clicking. And he is actually improving our second round unit.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 09:37 AM
Uhh, he's a better option than Lance right now, IMO.

If Hill gets hurt again and we don't have AJ, it won't be pretty.Because it was so gorgeous WITH AJ when Hill was out. Hill goes down again, one, awesome trade Larry, and two, I don't care.

I'm not trying to rag on AJ, but the dude's not some sort of solution. A legitimate part of the reason him going to a place like LA would be fine with me is because he's a solid player and deserves the chance to find a niche. But I can't see that happening here, not w/o an abrupt about face. We all know about the faith Larry has in Lance. In my opinion, while Lance isn't as steady an option as AJ right now, I'm not about to argue that point at all, I wish AJ weren't taking his spot in the rotation. If Lance is going to be here as long as all the statements make it sound, I want him playing consistently and learning.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:37 AM
Isn't Hill a FA after this year? What if he bolts?

He is a RFA I believe, so we can match whatever offer is out there, but here are the options if we choose not to match or if he does not accept the qualifying offer

Point Guard
(name, team 2011-12 salary status)

Deron Williams, New Jersey Nets $16.4 million Player Option ($17.8 million)
Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns $11.7 million Unrestricted
Aaron Brooks, Phoenix Suns $2.0 million Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Raymond Felton, Portland Trail Blazers $7.6 million Unrestricted
Kirk Hinrich, Atlanta Hawks $8.0 million Unrestricted
Jason Kidd, Dallas Mavericks $8.6 million Unrestricted
Andre Miller, Denver Nuggets $7.8 million Unrestricted
Chauncey Billups, L.A. Clippers $2.0 million Unrestricted
Jameer Nelson, Orlando Magic $7.8 million Player Option ($7.8 million)
D.J. Augustin, Charlotte Bobcats $3.2 million Restricted ($4.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Jason Terry, Dallas Mavericks $10.7 million Unrestricted
George Hill, Indiana Pacers $2.1 million Restricted ($3.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Jordan Farmar, New Jersey Nets $4.0 million Player Option ($4.3 million)
Leandro Barbosa, Toronto Raptors $7.6 million Unrestricted
Beno Udrih, Milwaukee Bucks $7.0 million Player Option ($7.4 million)
Goran Dragic, Houston Rockets $2.1 million Unrestricted*
Jerryd Bayless, Toronto Raptors $3.0 million Restricted ($4.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Derek Fisher, L.A. Lakers $3.4 million Player Option ($3.4 million)
Randy Foye, L.A. Clippers $4.3 million Unrestricted
Mo Williams, L.A. Clippers $8.5 million Player Option ($8.5 million)
Jonny Flynn, Houston Rockets $3.4 million Unrestricted
Keyon Dooling, Boston Celtics $2.2 million Unrestricted
Ishmael Smith, Orlando Magic $0.5 million Unrestricted*
Ramon Sessions, Cleveland Cavaliers $4.3 million Player Option ($4.6 million)
Jeremy Lin, New York Knicks $0.8 million Unrestricted*
Armon Johnson, Portland Trail Blazers $0.8 million Unrestricted*
Sundiata Gaines, New Jersey Nets $0.9 million Unrestricted*
A.J. Price, Indiana Pacers $0.9 million Unrestricted*
Baron Davis, New York Knicks $1.3 million Unrestricted
Royal Ivey, Oklahoma City Thunder $1.2 million Unrestricted
John Lucas, Chicago Bulls $0.9 million Unrestricted
Jannero Pargo, Atlanta Hawks $1.1 million Unrestricted
Delonte West, Dallas Mavericks $1.1 million Unrestricted
Walker Russell, Jr., Detroit Pistons $0.4 million Unrestricted*
Darius Morris, L.A. Lakers $0.5 million Unrestricted*
Terrell Harris, Miami HEAT $0.5 million Unrestricted*
Carldell Johnson, New Orleans Hornets $0.5 million Unrestricted*
DeAndre Liggins, Orlando Magic $0.5 million Unrestricted*
Ronnie Price, Phoenix Suns $1.1 million Unrestricted
T.J. Ford, San Antonio Spurs $1.1 million Unrestricted
Anthony Carter, Toronto Raptors $1.3 million Unrestricted
Roger Mason, Washington Wizards $1.1 million Unrestricted
Jamaal Tinsley, Utah Jazz $1.2 million Team Option ($1.3 million)

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 09:39 AM
I think it could be possible that the Pacers are looking to get a pick for him to package the pick for a bigger deal?

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:40 AM
Because it was so gorgeous WITH AJ when Hill was out. Hill goes down again, one, awesome trade Larry, and two, I don't care.

I'm not trying to rag on AJ, but the dude's not some sort of solution. A legitimate part of the reason him going to a place like LA would be fine with me is because he's a solid player and deserves the chance to find a niche. But I can't see that happening here, not w/o an abrupt about face. We all know about the faith Larry has in Lance. In my opinion, while Lance isn't as steady an option as AJ right now, I'm not about to argue that point at all, I wish AJ weren't taking his spot in the rotation. If Lance is going to be here as long as all the statements make it sound, I want him playing consistently and learning.
I don't know, I'm just not sold on Lance, I guess.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:42 AM
The key word of my phrase was at the moment. AJ is playing for us at the moment. A pick won't play for us at the moment. And it is in this particular moment that we need AJ for. Someone has to play PG in the second unit and Price is currently our best option.



AJ Price was only getting some garbage minutes in January when he played. In our first 20 games (till the Nets game that Hill was injured) he only played in 8 games.

It was quite logical that he would be rusty. As of lately he is clicking. And he is actually improving our second round unit.

In a month we will be at a new at the moment, and by then, AJ will be back to his January minutes, so all the stuff he is doing for the team now won't matter right?

Thats all, I have nothing else, lol...

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 09:43 AM
I don't know, I'm just not sold on Lance, I guess.Me either. I'd very much rather not pick up Lance's option and keep AJ this summer. But that doesn't seem to be what TPTB are interested in, so get something from AJ instead of nothing.

I don't like Lance over AJ, now or in the long run. But I'm not signing checks.

pacer4ever
03-02-2012, 09:45 AM
AJ Price was a steal in the 2nd round with our pick... no way I'm only trading him for a 2nd and getting stuck with a person that plays 2 min a game when we are up 20. i want to keep AJ bc LA won't give anything significant

AJ was not a steal in the 2nd rd. He was what I consider a safe 2nd pick a very low ceiling like a solid 3rd string pg 2nd on a team with lack of depth but a very good chance he doesn't bust. While a guy like Monta,Lance or any European player is a risk 2nd pick they have much more talent than Price could every dream of but there is a huge chance they bust or never play in the league.

If Price can net you any assets I would trade him I dont think Bird views him as a future player for the team. There are a few kids in the Dleague who could give Price a run for his money.

Hell the Bulls just released Mike James and he is as good as Price they just are loaded at pg with CJ Watson and Rose.

2minutes twoa
03-02-2012, 09:46 AM
Ebanks was a 2nd rounder, Steve Blake was a 2nd rounder, lol I don't get what you guys have against 2nd round picks but don't mind getting guys who were taken there?

A second rounder brings a young unproven player, that's the difference. I don't mind if they trade AJ for another guy who was picked in the 2nd if their proven skills compliment and add to the teams depth better than AJ. I would imagine the list of second rounders that did a lot less than AJ in this league is pretty long.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:47 AM
AJ was not a steal in the 2nd rd. He was what I consider a safe 2nd pick a very low ceiling like a solid 3rd string pg 2nd on a team with lack of depth but a very good chance he doesn't bust. While a guy like Monta,Lance or any European player is a risk 2nd pick they have much more talent than Price could every dream of but there is a huge chance they bust or never play in the league.

If Price can net you any assets I would trade him I dont think Bird views him as a future player for the team. There are a few kids in the Dleague who could give Price a run for his money.

Hell the Bulls just released Mike James and he is as good as Price they just are loaded at pg with CJ Watson and Rose.

Exactly...

Lord Helmet
03-02-2012, 09:47 AM
Me either. I'd very much rather not pick up Lance's option and keep AJ this summer. But that doesn't seem to be what TPTB are interested in, so get something from AJ instead of nothing.

I don't like Lance over AJ, now or in the long run. But I'm not signing checks.
:laugh:

Yeah, I understand.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:49 AM
A second rounder brings a young unproven player, that's the difference. I don't mind if they trade AJ for another guy who was picked in the 2nd if their proven skills compliment and add to the teams depth better than AJ. I would imagine the list of second rounders that did a lot less than AJ in this league is pretty long.

Please read P4e's comment

pacer4ever
03-02-2012, 09:50 AM
I don't know, I'm just not sold on Lance, I guess.

You dont have to be sold on Lance there are options out there that are as good if not better than Price at pg.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 09:53 AM
In a month we will be at a new at the moment, and by then, AJ will be back to his January minutes, so all the stuff he is doing for the team now won't matter right?

Thats all, I have nothing else, lol...

Probably. But the pick still won't be here. I love the idea of getting picks but we need a PG off the bench. Now, if we were to get a PG in a trade (either an elite one and move DC to the second unit or a Dragic-type one for the second unit), I'd consider it.

As it is now, I do not see any reason to trade AJ for a pick who may or may not help us in the future.

RWB
03-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Hell the Bulls just released Mike James and he is as good as Price they just are loaded at pg with CJ Watson and Rose.

So then nothing to discuss really since LA shouldn't have any interest in Price since they can sign Mike James without giving up anything.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:55 AM
Point is if you want average PG's you can get one from free agency or the Dleauge, I was just at the dleague allstar game this past weekend, James OnCurry offers pretty close to the same thing that AJ does.

In the 2nd round you can grab a guy with potential and as p4e said he may boom or he may bust, but if he bust just go and grab a average guy from free agency or the dleague, AJ is not a game changer in my opinion.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 09:56 AM
I'll be honest. I just want another 2nd rounder so we can draft Robbie Hummel. Only half kidding really.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 09:56 AM
or any European player is a risk 2nd pick

Why? Due to the chances of them not coming to the NBA at all? I could understand that. But other than that I don't see them being a risk as most of them are already proven in a professional level.

Really?
03-02-2012, 09:59 AM
So then nothing to discuss really since LA shouldn't have any interest in Price since they can sign Mike James without giving up anything.

They should, but if they are offering a 2nd rounder to us for the same player they can get in FA then that is their problem, we should take the deal and run, and then sign Mike James ourselves if we want.


Probably. But the pick still won't be here. I love the idea of getting picks but we need a PG off the bench. Now, if we were to get a PG in a trade (either an elite one and move DC to the second unit or a Dragic-type one for the second unit), I'd consider it.

As it is now, I do not see any reason to trade AJ for a pick who may or may not help us in the future.

I think about building a team through depth, AJ is cool, but he is pretty far back on the depth chart. I don't really plan on Hill getting hurt again so my need for AJ is that much lower, and as I said in the comment above, might as well trade the pick and add Mike James if we need. Hey a free pick, nothing wrong with that.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 10:01 AM
I think about building a team through depth, AJ is cool, but he is pretty far back on the depth chart. I don't really plan on Hill getting hurt again so my need for AJ is that much lower, and as I said in the comment above, might as well trade the pick and add Mike James if we need. Hey a free pick, nothing wrong with that.

I think about building a team through depth as well.

I just don't think that AJ is so far back on the depth chart since I don't think that Hill is going to play PG for us.

The Sleeze
03-02-2012, 10:03 AM
If they want to give us Darius Morris and a 2nd round pick I would probably do it. I really wanted Darius Morris for us last year in the 2nd round. He was always top of the charts in Assists in college (against Big Ten defenses) and he looked great when he came here for workouts.

I like AJ, but like some others have said he probably won't be here past this year anyway, so this would be our chance to get another guy on a rookie contract with a lot of potential that won't hurt our cap for next year.

So I only do it if they throw in Morris.

Steagles
03-02-2012, 10:05 AM
I have never been sold on AJ. He's playing well, but it won't last. Just like Linsanity died after like 3 weeks. If they are interested in AJ, get as much for him as we can. I like Lance anyway, in the long run.

Really?
03-02-2012, 10:07 AM
If they want to give us Darius Morris and a 2nd round pick I would probably do it. I really wanted Darius Morris for us last year in the 2nd round. He was always top of the charts in Assists in college (against Big Ten defenses) and he looked great when he came here for workouts.

I like AJ, but like some others have said he probably won't be here past this year anyway, so this would be our chance to get another guy on a rookie contract with a lot of potential that won't hurt our cap for next year.

So I only do it if they throw in Morris.

I would do the deal for Darius Morris and Chicagos 2nd for AJ

pacer4ever
03-02-2012, 10:09 AM
Why? Due to the chances of them not coming to the NBA at all? I could understand that. But other than that I don't see them being a risk as most of them are already proven in a professional level.

That and depending on the player and his style of play how he will fit in the NBA.

Gold
03-02-2012, 10:10 AM
I wouldn't be surprised, they want to sign our whole 09-10 roster as it is.

RWB
03-02-2012, 10:10 AM
The bottom line is.... will Price help the Pacers this year in the playoffs? If yes, then we need to keep him even if he bolts or we do not re-sign him after the season.

Doing well in the playoffs THIS season is so important to this team. We need to get into the second round to get folks back in the seats. AJ has been solid enough to be a difference maker in that second unit. At least in my opinion.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 10:11 AM
I just don't know why they don't at least give Morris some run. We all saw him do well at UM and LA seemed fairly high on him leading up to the season. Now he's played like 100 minutes all season. I mean if you're interested in guys like Will Bynum and AJ, shouldn't you at least see what you've got on your own roster first?

Major Cold
03-02-2012, 10:14 AM
Trading AJ for anything less than a 1st is idiotic. What do you expect to get with a second round pick? Another AJ Price to throw away for another lateral move.

Maybe to draft a player like Stanko. Who will never play in the US.

Maybe a player like that Frenchy big man? Oh wait we already had a Maceo Baston on this team.

But vnzla is correct. I don't see us giving Price away just to recieve trash. It is more likely to get something bigger. I am willing to bet that Ebanks would fit in well with Doc, along with Tyler, Collison, and Lance.

Major Cold
03-02-2012, 10:15 AM
I just don't know why they don't at least give Morris some run. We all saw him do well at UM and LA seemed fairly high on him leading up to the season. Now he's played like 100 minutes all season. I mean if you're interested in guys like Will Bynum and AJ, shouldn't you at least see what you've got on your own roster first?

If you think AJ is the same as an unproven rookie, then this explains why you want to trade him for a bag of cheetos.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 10:15 AM
Just like Linsanity died after like 3 weeks.

Died after 3 weeks? People still talk a lot about him and he is still playing good (19/13/5 in the last game).

BillS
03-02-2012, 10:16 AM
OK, I guess I'm an idiot. I don't get this "all AJ is worth is a second round pick" stuff.

Second round picks fall out of the league more often than not.

We have a second round guy who has worked himself into the rotation.

That makes him no better than another crap shoot? Without even a player attached?

Some of you guys are delusional and are the reason Hoosier Downs is profitable.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 10:17 AM
That and depending on the player and his style of play how he will fit in the NBA.

Ok, I can understand this :p

The Sleeze
03-02-2012, 10:17 AM
I just don't know why they don't at least give Morris some run. We all saw him do well at UM and LA seemed fairly high on him leading up to the season. Now he's played like 100 minutes all season. I mean if you're interested in guys like Will Bynum and AJ, shouldn't you at least see what you've got on your own roster first?

I know, some teams are just dead set on not giving rookies significant minutes (Boston is one, JOB Pacers were one).

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 10:18 AM
If you think AJ is the same as an unproven rookie, then this explains why you want to trade him for a bag of cheetos.
That's not what I said. Morris is on their roster and was a very nice player at Michigan that maybe (we'll see someday maybe) got under-drafted. They're paying him right now. He's young, see what he's got. And I've explained why I'd be fine with (and with not) trading AJ. Not for some Cheetos though. Maybe if the're some flaming hots.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 10:19 AM
Maybe a player like that Frenchy big man?

I just want to point out that Elonu is Nigerian and not French :p

[/geek]

RWB
03-02-2012, 10:22 AM
Second round picks fall out of the league more often than not.


What, you mean hitting a single instead of going for the homerun could be bad for you? :D

pacer4ever
03-02-2012, 10:26 AM
I know, some teams are just dead set on not giving rookies significant minutes (Boston is one, JOB Pacers were one).

Morris has got some run and he played really bad. Their fellow rookie Goldlock beat him out you cant play everyone Morris made a mistake in coming out he isnt ready.

15th parallel
03-02-2012, 10:27 AM
That Lakers team really wanted to become the "Los Angeles Pacers." LOL!

Anyway, I don't want to trade AJ as of right now if it just a 2nd round because:

- he's currently the most suitable backup PG of this team. While Hill sometimes play PG, he mostly plays as SG. Unless you fully trust that Lance will instantly be reliable as backup PG.

- he's a proven commodity right now. He's not that great, but he has shown that he's a good catch at 2nd round. While you can get a 2nd rounder out of him, there's still a lot of unknowns and in most cases they ended up being cut in the rotation. At this stage of this team, you need to have reliable vet guys, not another young prospect.

- there's no real good trade asset we can get from the Lakers with only AJ I believe. Can they give a 1st rounder? I doubt. If they give a 2nd rounder, is there a guarantee that he's much better than AJ?

- he's clicking with the Goon Squad that is struggling before his mini surge. Why remove him with just a 2nd rounder that will play next year? We should get a current player in return.

Really?
03-02-2012, 10:27 AM
AJ was not a steal in the 2nd rd. He was what I consider a safe 2nd pick a very low ceiling like a solid 3rd string pg 2nd on a team with lack of depth but a very good chance he doesn't bust. While a guy like Monta,Lance or any European player is a risk 2nd pick they have much more talent than Price could every dream of but there is a huge chance they bust or never play in the league.

If Price can net you any assets I would trade him I dont think Bird views him as a future player for the team. There are a few kids in the Dleague who could give Price a run for his money.

Hell the Bulls just released Mike James and he is as good as Price they just are loaded at pg with CJ Watson and Rose.

I think this needs to be stated again, this is the reason AJ has stuck around in the league, not because he has done some amazing job, but because he is what we thought he was. He is low potential and is a specialist at shooting 3's, not a true pg more of a 2 that can step in for point against a 2nd team offense.

In no way does that make him worth a first round pick in the low 20's

Really?
03-02-2012, 10:29 AM
That Lakers team really wanted to become the "Los Angeles Pacers." LOL!

Anyway, I don't want to trade AJ as of right now if it just a 2nd round because:

- he's currently the most suitable backup PG of this team. While Hill sometimes play PG, he mostly plays as SG. Unless you fully trust that Lance will instantly be reliable as backup PG.

- he's a proven commodity right now. He's not that great, but he has shown that he's a good catch at 2nd round. While you can get a 2nd rounder out of him, there's still a lot of unknowns and in most cases they ended up being cut in the rotation. At this stage of this team, you need to have reliable vet guys, not another young prospect.

- there's no real good trade asset we can get from the Lakers with only AJ I believe. Can they give a 1st rounder? I doubt. If they give a 2nd rounder, is there a guarantee that he's much better than AJ?

- he's clicking with the Goon Squad that is struggling before his mini surge. Why remove him with just a 2nd rounder that will play next year? We should get a current player in return.

How much further do you think AJ will get us in the playoffs, I believe his play will not change our playoff outcome at all. Might as well take a chance on a guy in the 2nd that has potential to help us out more in the future.

The Sleeze
03-02-2012, 10:30 AM
Morris has got some run and he played really bad. Their fellow rookie Goldlock beat him out you cant play everyone Morris made a mistake in coming out he isnt ready.

Yeah, Goudelock is shoot first and fits their offense better. Not an excuse for Morris if he played bad, just pointing it out.

Here is a link to a comparison between Goudelock and Morris:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=morrida01&y1=2012&p2=goudean01&y2=2012

Morris has the same amount of assists in almost 1/3 of the minutes. Side note: Goudelock has already attempted 53 3-pointers in 311 minutes, that averages out to over 8 attempts per game!

15th parallel
03-02-2012, 10:39 AM
How much further do you think AJ will get us in the playoffs, I believe his play will not change our playoff outcome at all. Might as well take a chance on a guy in the 2nd that has potential to help us out more in the future.

Well I'm not against trading AJ. But if he's just to be traded in the lower 2nd round pick is not really worth it IMO. I'd rather get a current player who can contribute instantly. How frequent is a late 2nd rounder stay in the league as a major contributor at least off the bench?

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 10:41 AM
Well I'm not against trading AJ. But if he's just to be traded in the lower 2nd round pick is not really worth it IMO. I'd rather get a current player who can contribute instantly. How frequent is a late 2nd rounder stay in the league as a major contributor at least off the bench?
The guys over at 8 Points, 9 Seconds did a study on later picks maybe a year and a half or so ago I wanna say. Ended up being something like about 50% of picks that were 20 or later in the last decade (or so?) were in the league after their rookie deal, something like that. I'd look it up in their archives but that'd take effort.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 10:44 AM
In no way does that make him worth a first round pick in the low 20's

No one is saying that. We just say that he is worth more than the last pick of the draft (you're not going to be lucky and pick Isaiah Thomas every time).

Justin Tyme
03-02-2012, 10:53 AM
I wonder if they would do a swap, Price for McBob, since he's not getting a lot of playing time there. If Memphis is still interested in him, it may be an opportunity to make another run at OJ Mayo with a three team trade.


As soon as I saw the thread title I knew a McBob trade was coming. It took 24 posts b4 someone suggested a Price for McBob trade. I'm surprised it took that many.

Why on earth would the Pacers want McBob back? B/c he can do a fancy behind his back dribble, throw a slick pass, or do a highlite reel dunk every once in a while? Yep those things have impressed the Lakers so much he gets DNP's or 4 min or less MPG. Why would the Pacers want to pay 4 times the salary for McBob to produce little compared to how Price has been playing? Makes no sense at all. The Lakers wanted McBob, so let them keep him. PASS PASS PASS AND PASS AGAIN.

wintermute
03-02-2012, 10:56 AM
OK, I guess I'm an idiot. I don't get this "all AJ is worth is a second round pick" stuff.

Second round picks fall out of the league more often than not.

We have a second round guy who has worked himself into the rotation.

That makes him no better than another crap shoot? Without even a player attached?

Some of you guys are delusional and are the reason Hoosier Downs is profitable.

While this is true, the question is does AJ Price have a future here beyond this season? He's a FA next year. If we're keeping DC, Hill, and Stephenson, then getting a 2nd rounder for Price might be better than letting him walk for nothing.

15th parallel
03-02-2012, 10:57 AM
The guys over at 8 Points, 9 Seconds did a study on later picks maybe a year and a half or so ago I wanna say. Ended up being something like about 50% of picks that were 20 or later in the last decade (or so?) were in the league after their rookie deal, something like that. I'd look it up in their archives but that'd take effort.

A late 1st rounder can be an instant help off the bench. Problem is, with the way the Lakers are playing right now, their 2nd rounder will probably be at late 40s to 50th+ pick. That's a rare place to get a decent player.

pacer4ever
03-02-2012, 11:01 AM
A late 1st rounder can be an instant help off the bench. Problem is, with the way the Lakers are playing right now, their 2nd rounder will probably be at late 40s to 50th+ pick. That's a rare place to get a decent player.

The current rookie of the month was the last pick in the draft. If you can scout and pick a player for your system you can draft a solid player. Isaiah Thomas was told he was too small for the NBA and he said :censored: off with his play this season he has been amazing.

the draft use to be much longer and you could find gems in the 4th rd lol.

BillS
03-02-2012, 11:01 AM
What, you mean hitting a single instead of going for the homerun could be bad for you? :D

More like striking out instead of hitting the single.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 11:02 AM
A late 1st rounder can be an instant help off the bench. Problem is, with the way the Lakers are playing right now, their 2nd rounder will probably be at late 40s to 50th+ pick. That's a rare place to get a decent player.
I agree. Was just pointing out that getting a decent player, depending on your definition I guess, past pick 20ish or so is a crapshoot. Obviously exponentially moreso the deeper into the draft you get. Given the rules of the the structuring of contracts I'd honestly rather have a pick between 31-35 than 25-30 though. By a fairly large margin really.

wintermute
03-02-2012, 11:02 AM
The irony of all this talk of late 2nd rounders is that AJ is a late 2nd rounder himself (53rd overall in 2009). Yes, I know how rare it is to get a useful player there, but Price himself is proof that it can be done.

pacergod2
03-02-2012, 11:04 AM
What about AJ Price and our second rounder for their first?

BillS
03-02-2012, 11:05 AM
While this is true, the question is does AJ Price have a future here beyond this season? He's a FA next year. If we're keeping DC, Hill, and Stephenson, then getting a 2nd rounder for Price might be better than letting him walk for nothing.

What does it cost you to replace him if he walks? Practically nothing.

Meanwhile, he is contributing right now.

You really aren't gaining that much compensation with a second-round pick.

tsm612
03-02-2012, 11:06 AM
As soon as I saw the thread title I knew a McBob trade was coming. It took 24 posts b4 someone suggested a Price for McBob trade. I'm surprised it took that many.

Why on earth would the Pacers want McBob back? B/c he can do a fancy behind his back dribble, throw a slick pass, or do a highlite reel dunk every once in a while? Yep those things have impressed the Lakers so much he gets DNP's or 4 min or less MPG. Why would the Pacers want to pay 4 times the salary for McBob to produce little compared to how Price has been playing? Makes no sense at all. The Lakers wanted McBob, so let them keep him. PASS PASS PASS AND PASS AGAIN.

AGAIN, I was not saying we should trade for McBob. I was saying that I wonder if we could do a three way trade, sending Josh to Memphis, and getting Mayo in return. Is anyone even reading that post, or just stopping after the first sentence? This is the second time in this thread I've had to clarify. In my original post, I said it should be a three way trade.

Edit to include my original post:

I wonder if they would do a swap, Price for McBob, since he's not getting a lot of playing time there. If Memphis is still interested in him, it may be an opportunity to make another run at OJ Mayo with a three team trade.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 11:10 AM
What does it cost you to replace him if he walks? Practically nothing.

Meanwhile, he is contributing right now.

You really aren't gaining that much compensation with a second-round pick.For me losing him now is a negligible difference. I don't think trading him effects the W/L column at all. Maybe it does, I'm no hoops savant, but I just don't think it does. So if it makes close to no difference now, and he's most likely not kept in the offseason, you happily acquire an asset for him this season. However small the asset is. That's my view of it anyway, could certainly be wrong on a number of counts.

wintermute
03-02-2012, 11:11 AM
What does it cost you to replace him if he walks? Practically nothing.

Meanwhile, he is contributing right now.

You really aren't gaining that much compensation with a second-round pick.

Yeah, this argument works better for me.

But still, he doesn't play all that much and might not even be in the playoff rotation.

I guess I'm just surprised that anyone would give us something of value for AJ, even if it's just a 2nd rounder. Somewhat akin to my surprise that Memphis was offering us Mayo for McBob last year.

15th parallel
03-02-2012, 11:19 AM
The current rookie of the month was the last pick in the draft. If you can scout and pick a player for your system you can draft a solid player. Isaiah Thomas was told he was too small for the NBA and he said :censored: off with his play this season he has been amazing.

the draft use to be much longer and you could find gems in the 4th rd lol.

Well it's not really a problem if a late 2nd rounder can become something in this league. It's about how rare it is to have somebody that can really make an impact. I mean you have to assume that almost all other GMs will make a mistake in the 2nd round to no pick that somebody that you think can become good from a deep end of the draft, and that the draft is so deep that late 2st rounders and 2nd rounders are of almost the same level in terms of potential.

Really?
03-02-2012, 11:22 AM
A late 1st rounder can be an instant help off the bench. Problem is, with the way the Lakers are playing right now, their 2nd rounder will probably be at late 40s to 50th+ pick. That's a rare place to get a decent player.

They do not have their 2nd rounder they traded it, they do have chicagos which should be in the last 4, what I have said is that if it were their pick that is in the early 20's of the first round then I have no problem with that, if it is the last pick then I would ask for that pick and Darius Morris. But I still believe that Price is worth no more than a early-mid 2nd round pick.

Really?
03-02-2012, 11:23 AM
Well it's not really a problem if a late 2nd rounder can become something in this league. It's about how rare it is to have somebody that can really make an impact. I mean you have to assume that almost all other GMs will make a mistake in the 2nd round to no pick that somebody that you think can become good from a deep end of the draft, and that the draft is so deep that late 2st rounders and 2nd rounders are of almost the same level in terms of potential.


They do not have their 2nd rounder they traded it, they do have chicagos which should be in the last 4, what I have said is that if it were their pick that is in the early 20's of the first round then I have no problem with that, if it is the last pick then I would ask for that pick and Darius Morris. But I still believe that Price is worth no more than a early-mid 2nd round pick.

Also I will say Price is not that much of a impact...

15th parallel
03-02-2012, 11:24 AM
While this is true, the question is does AJ Price have a future here beyond this season? He's a FA next year. If we're keeping DC, Hill, and Stephenson, then getting a 2nd rounder for Price might be better than letting him walk for nothing.

Well if the team really wants to trade AJ for a draft pick, then I would look at other teams that have better standing in the draft. It's not the Lakers are the only team in need of a backup PG.

RWB
03-02-2012, 11:29 AM
Here's AJ's stats for the Chicago series.Not too bad for being a scrub.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/aj_price/index.html?nav=page

A.J. Price #12 Guard

Career Playoff Averages
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
10-11 IND 5 0 16.0 0.371 0.438 0.900 0.4 1.0 1.4 1.2 0.6 0. 0 1.40 1.00 8.4

15th parallel
03-02-2012, 11:31 AM
Also I will say Price is not that much of a impact...

For other teams probably. But for the Pacers bench, he's been solid in some of our wins. In that aspect, AJ Price has become a valuable part of the bench. Like I've said, with our scarcity of a stable backup PG, it will really make the Pacers think longer to trade AJ for a prospect for the later year without a suitable replacement who can play now.

HC
03-02-2012, 11:33 AM
As soon as I saw the thread title I knew a McBob trade was coming. It took 24 posts b4 someone suggested a Price for McBob trade. I'm surprised it took that many.

Why on earth would the Pacers want McBob back? B/c he can do a fancy behind his back dribble, throw a slick pass, or do a highlite reel dunk every once in a while? Yep those things have impressed the Lakers so much he gets DNP's or 4 min or less MPG. Why would the Pacers want to pay 4 times the salary for McBob to produce little compared to how Price has been playing? Makes no sense at all. The Lakers wanted McBob, so let them keep him. PASS PASS PASS AND PASS AGAIN.

I'm not advocating a trade for McBob, however he would likely be more useful than some random 2nd round pick.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 11:35 AM
Here's AJ's stats for the Chicago series.Not too bad for being a scrub.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/aj_price/index.html?nav=page

A.J. Price #12 Guard

Career Playoff Averages
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
10-11 IND 5 0 16.0 0.371 0.438 0.900 0.4 1.0 1.4 1.2 0.6 0. 0 1.40 1.00 8.4
And we lost in 5 games. This is the same attitude that pines for another Jax/Reggie/Satan/DD/Rik lineup even though it never even got to a Finals.

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 11:35 AM
By the way, this rumor also explains why AJ is supposed to be the back up PG, probably some teams wants to see him play more.

Justin Tyme
03-02-2012, 11:35 AM
I know, some teams are just dead set on not giving rookies significant minutes (Boston is one, JOB Pacers were one).


That same JOB said Price was the steal of the draft, and Price was out playing Ford and Watson in practice too. This forum jumped all on board with those 2 statements. Trading Price for nothing but a Laker 012 or later 2nd pick isn't going to happen. Bird's got more common sense than that!!! This is one of those few times I trust Bird, and AJ is going to the Lakers for only a poor 2nd rd pick.

Morris, Goudelock, or Ebanks and a 2nd, then that's something to think about.

RWB
03-02-2012, 11:40 AM
And we lost in 5 games. This is the same attitude that pines for another Jax/Reggie/Satan/DD/Rik lineup even though it never even got to a Finals.

And you believe a 2nd round pick is going to get us to the finals? I didn't see it with Dyron Nix, Kenny Williams, James White or even throw in a little Damon Bailey. Biggest 2nd round difference maker for us was Tony Davis and Tony didn't get us to the promised land either.

Heisenberg
03-02-2012, 11:42 AM
And you believe a 2nd round pick is going to get us to the finals? I did it see it with Dyron Nix, Kenny Williams, James White or even throw in a little Damon Bailey. Biggest 2nd round difference maker for us was Tony Davis and Tony didn't get us to the promised land either.
No. And neither's AJ. As I've repeatedly said, an asset in the future is worth more to me than AJ the rest of this season.

xBulletproof
03-02-2012, 11:49 AM
By the way, this rumor also explains why AJ is supposed to be the back up PG, probably some teams wants to see him play more.

.... or those teams are interested because of his good play that earned him time as the backup PG ...

RWB
03-02-2012, 11:50 AM
No. And neither's AJ. As I've repeatedly said, an asset in the future is worth more to me than AJ the rest of this season.

I appreciate your thought, I just happen to believe AJ is worth something this season.

duke dynamite
03-02-2012, 11:53 AM
AJ > Future Second Round Pick

I like what he has been bringing to the table lately. If we can bundle him in a deal that makes the team better now and moving forward, sure, I'll do it. But I don't want to give him up for something else that will get nothing but garbage time.

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 11:54 AM
.... or those teams are interested because of his good play that earned him time as the backup PG ...

There wouldn't be interest if he didn't play well, but I still think they are showcasing him for a trade, I hope we get a 1st round pick to go after Rondo or somebody like that.

MyFavMartin
03-02-2012, 11:54 AM
If this were baseball the Lakers would be demanding AJ as Brian Shaw compensation.

They could have hired Shaw as their head coach but didn't, so they can sit on it with Mike Brown.

Justin Tyme
03-02-2012, 12:10 PM
As I've repeatedly said, an asset in the future is worth more to me than AJ the rest of this season.

I've been a pro 2nd rd person only to be pounded on that they are basically worthless trade fodder or here today gone tomorrows, and I see AJ more valuable the rest of this season than a #50 pick next draft. To me AJ is the current b/u PG, and I truly believe Bird sees the samething. I don't see where Bird believes Lance is ready to take Price's minutes... next year maybe but not this year. Bird wants to get to the 2nd rd in the playoffs and unless he can add something to the team that will help now by trading Price I don't see him trading Price. Bird is pretty conservative, so I don't expect to see AJ traded to the Lakers for only a future 2nd rd pick. I just can't see Bird doing it. I seriously doubt this rumor has any merit to it.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 12:10 PM
While this is true, the question is does AJ Price have a future here beyond this season? He's a FA next year. If we're keeping DC, Hill, and Stephenson, then getting a 2nd rounder for Price might be better than letting him walk for nothing.

I agree with this notion, though.

Hicks
03-02-2012, 12:15 PM
I'd only trade him for their low 1st rounder. A 2nd round pick is at best a lateral move.

Hey, let's get a late 2nd round pick! If we're lucky, we might draft... another AJ Price!

Yeah, no thanks.

But if they are open to the low 1st rounder, sure. I'd be surprised if they are, but who knows.

Justin Tyme
03-02-2012, 12:17 PM
AJ > Future Second Round Pick

I like what he has been bringing to the table lately. If we can bundle him in a deal that makes the team better now and moving forward, sure, I'll do it. But I don't want to give him up for something else that will get nothing but garbage time.


I agree. If the Lakers had a 31-35 pick in a deep draft, I might disagree, but the Lakers don't. Price's present value is better than a possble #50 2nd rd pick.

RWB
03-02-2012, 12:17 PM
I know it's a lot of if's.. but.... if Hill goes down, if Collison goes down, if DRose goes down... lets not toss away this season just because at this point it doesn't appear we're going to win a championship. As others have pointed out.... AJ Price is our backup point.

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 12:30 PM
Another reason I don't want a second round pick for AJ is because I don't want another MAGNUM ROLLE, MAGNUM ROLLE? .......(Steven A voice).

Hoop
03-02-2012, 12:31 PM
The current rookie of the month was the last pick in the draft. If you can scout and pick a player for your system you can draft a solid player. Isaiah Thomas was told he was too small for the NBA and he said :censored: off with his play this season he has been amazing.

the draft use to be much longer and you could find gems in the 4th rd lol.
If it's so easy why doesn't every team pick a solid NBA player in the 2nd round. Just a little scouting is all it takes? Sounds awful easy. :rolleyes:

Half the teams can't even get the 1st round guys right.

Nuntius
03-02-2012, 12:37 PM
The current rookie of the month was the last pick in the draft. If you can scout and pick a player for your system you can draft a solid player. Isaiah Thomas was told he was too small for the NBA and he said :censored: off with his play this season he has been amazing.

the draft use to be much longer and you could find gems in the 4th rd lol.

As you said Isaiah had a clear drawback. He was thought to be too small for the NBA. The Kings decided to give him a chance. Jimmer was underachieving and Thornton went down for some games. So, the Kings had to give him time. It was the perfect chance for him. It paid off. He has been amazing for them and he has helped them win several games. The kid has heart and he deserves all the PT he gets.

He can evolve into the big steal of the draft. He certainly looks like a steal at the moment. He was a risk that paid off. You're not gonna have this every time, though.

6 out of the 10 players who were picked in the 50-60 range in the last draft have yet to come and play (or train) for an NBA team.

The other 3 have played in less than 10 games. That's the reality for most draft picks in this range at their first year. Thomas was a steal. Price was not a steal but he was a very safe and solid pick as you said.


The irony of all this talk of late 2nd rounders is that AJ is a late 2nd rounder himself (53rd overall in 2009). Yes, I know how rare it is to get a useful player there, but Price himself is proof that it can be done.




Hey, let's get a late 2nd round pick! If we're lucky, we might draft... another AJ Price!

Yeah, no thanks.


The real irony is that these two posts say basically the same thing but reach a different conclusion :p

Really?
03-02-2012, 12:39 PM
I'd only trade him for their low 1st rounder. A 2nd round pick is at best a lateral move.

Hey, let's get a late 2nd round pick! If we're lucky, we might draft... another AJ Price!

Yeah, no thanks.

But if they are open to the low 1st rounder, sure. I'd be surprised if they are, but who knows.

We could get a player with more potential, it could either turn out to be lateral, better or worst, but I would rather take the chance on getting someone with more potential and possibly busting than keeping AJ at the same level he is now for a year.

Since AJ does not play that big a part of this team, which has tons of depth at the guard position, his overall importance to the team is not that great.


I agree. If the Lakers had a 31-35 pick in a deep draft, I might disagree, but the Lakers don't. Price's present value is better than a possble #50 2nd rd pick.

This is becoming a mute point though because the Lakers only on the 2nd rd pick of the Bulls which will be near the end of the draft.

The best ideas I have heard so far are the Bulls 2nd and Darius Miller for AJ, or their 1st for AJ and our 2nd.

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 12:40 PM
If it's so easy why doesn't every team pick a solid NBA player in the 2nd round. Just a little scouting is all it takes? Sounds awful easy. :rolleyes:

Half the teams can't even get the 1st round guys right.

That's probably because they don't have pacers4ever as their after the fact scout :laugh:

Really?
03-02-2012, 12:40 PM
If it's so easy why doesn't every team pick a solid NBA player in the 2nd round. Just a little scouting is all it takes? Sounds awful easy. :rolleyes:

Half the teams can't even get the 1st round guys right.

AJ could as easily be in the D-league as being in the NBA...there I said it...lol

Pacer Fan
03-02-2012, 12:45 PM
If we was to get a pg from another trade and we keep DC, I would take any future pick in the 2014 - 16 range from the Lakers for Price. Lakers should fall for rebuild. Kobe will be washed up in a couple years.
We already got a 2015 2nd from GSW for Rush. Other teams 2nd's help in packaging other trades. 2nd's have good value. Cheap salary and a prospect.

Who would've thought that Price actually would get on the trade talks and we could get anything for him..I see him as fill and that's it. So yea, a 2nd would be awesome.

Really?
03-02-2012, 12:47 PM
That's probably because they don't have pacers4ever as their after the fact scout :laugh:

For 2nd round picks people typically go for either bench players, foreign players to stash or people with tons of potential that have slipped for some reason, AJ was in the first group listed. Those other two groups typically have tons more potential than the first.

People scout and know this, it all depends on what you want.

pacer4ever
03-02-2012, 12:58 PM
If it's so easy why doesn't every team pick a solid NBA player in the 2nd round. Just a little scouting is all it takes? Sounds awful easy. :rolleyes:

Half the teams can't even get the 1st round guys right.

AJ isn't as good as people are making him out to be he is easily replaceable with a Dleague player. It isnt like he is a great rotation player. He is the end of a rotation player at best more likely 3rd pg or 4th just for depth. If you can get value for a asset that you plan on upgrading next year I say do it. AJ's production can be replaced by a Mike James type veteran and in all honesty he will likely do his role better than AJ.

Of course some players don't pan out but I would much rather get value for Price who is easily replaceable.

EDIT: I mean Scola Gortat Manu and Ramon Sessions were picked in the last 5 picks in the draft. Yes you may strike out but if you have good scouts you can find a gem in the tail end of the draft. It seems like every year there is a solid player(meaning much better than AJ) picked in the last 10 spots.

It is worth the gamble since we are basically not giving anything up(especially considering the FO doesn't seem committed to keeping Price and I cant say I really blame them we can get a cheap upgrade in FA.

sam kaiserblade
03-02-2012, 01:28 PM
Wonder if the Lakers are thinking about firing Mike Brown and replacing him with Jim O'Brien.

Pacersalltheway10
03-02-2012, 02:11 PM
If we can get a first round pick or McBob back for Price, imagine the possibilities. We could get Mayo or Kaman.... for Price.

CableKC
03-02-2012, 02:16 PM
If we can get a first round pick or McBob back for Price, imagine the possibilities. We could get Mayo or Kaman.... for Price.
I can see McBob having concerns about coming back to Indy. I don't get the sense that McBob was too happy about his situation with Indy after this summer.

PR07
03-02-2012, 02:18 PM
First round pick, I'd probably do just because I'm not sure Price is in the team's long-term plans going forward, and it would be nice to get a controllable young long-term player if he's going to depart in a year or two anyways.

Second round pick, no. We'd be lucky if that player even turns out to be as good as Price. Let alone, it would place an awful lot of pressure on George Hill on our bench. If he goes down because of injury or foul trouble, who runs the point? Stephenson? That could seriously backfire on us come playoff time, as it seems awfully risky for not much gain.

Justin Tyme
03-02-2012, 02:26 PM
AJ isn't as good as people are making him out to be he is easily replaceable with a Dleague player.


If this was so true, why are the Lakers interested in Price when they can just pick up a D Leaguer for a cheaper salary and not giving up a pick?

MiaDragon
03-02-2012, 02:27 PM
If anyone wants to improve by picking a player off our roster they have to over pay. Like AJ or not he is helping us win NOW, and damn winning feels good.

Eleazar
03-02-2012, 02:33 PM
A lot of people seem to forget the only reason we were able to get someone as good as Price that late was because of a perfect storm of circumstances. If it wasn't for injuries, and him coming out in possibly the deepest PG draft ever he most likely would have been a late first early second pick at worst. Instead he falls to us at 50-something.

Right now at worst he is a good back-up PG that you can trust, and at best he is a solid starting PG. I might be in the minority, but I value players who are smart and make their team better. Teams that are just full of stat stuffers who are flashy rarely win championships. Price might be a role player, but like Dale and Antonio(while with the Pacers at least) he can be a damn good one that every team could use.

beast23
03-02-2012, 02:34 PM
While this is true, the question is does AJ Price have a future here beyond this season? He's a FA next year. If we're keeping DC, Hill, and Stephenson, then getting a 2nd rounder for Price might be better than letting him walk for nothing.
I would agree that it appears that Price does not have a future with the Pacers beyond this season. However, he is PRESENTLY more important to us than a 2nd round pick.

I think that most of us would agree that our present team has offered something special to us this season, something that has become much more than we had reason to expect. A very pleasant surprise.

At the present time, unless the Pacers can acquire another PG that either slides into the starting lineup or is an equivalent replacement in the second unit, I think the Pacers suffer without Price on the team. I think that Hill plays very well at SG with Price, but hasn't been Price's equivalent at the point. As for Lance, even though he may be viewed as the future, he presently is not able to even carry Price's shoes when it comes to manning the PG position in the second unit.

So, like it or not, any playoff success that we may expect might be tied to Price's ability to run the second unit.

That is precisely why I would not be willing to deal Price for less than LAs first round pick. Not because Price is worth the pick, but because it is possible that our playoff success is partially tied to Price.

So, unless we get another PG coming in from somewhere else, we don't let Price go, even if he is planning on walking away this summer.

PaceBalls
03-02-2012, 02:51 PM
AJ is a UFA after this year right? If they don't plan on keeping him they might as well get some sort of draft pick or something if they can.

AJ had like 3 good games all year, and he was only getting minutes because GHill was out. It's not like he is a key contributor to our wins like some of you think.

I Love P
03-02-2012, 03:06 PM
"Lakers are interested in AJ Price." My question is, who isn't?

BillS
03-02-2012, 03:34 PM
"Lakers are interested in AJ Price." My question is, who isn't?

Heck of a lot of Pacer fans, seems to me.

Freddie fan
03-02-2012, 03:38 PM
AJ is a UFA after this year right? If they don't plan on keeping him they might as well get some sort of draft pick or something if they can.

AJ had like 3 good games all year, and he was only getting minutes because GHill was out. It's not like he is a key contributor to our wins like some of you think.

There's another thread here talking about Vogel saying A.J. is going to get the minutes at back-up point guard now, so that the second string guards are Hill and Price. It appears that Price is going to get minutes and Stephenson is the one who won't get many. So I think your point about him getting minutes only because Hill was out isn't relevant now.

Some of us think Price can be a key contributor off the bench, although he hasn't had much chance to do that until just lately. I think the bench will be better with Price than it would be without him, so I don't see any reason to send him away unless you get something substantial in return.

CJ Jones
03-02-2012, 03:45 PM
Here's AJ's stats for the Chicago series.Not too bad for being a scrub.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/aj_price/index.html?nav=page

A.J. Price #12 Guard

Career Playoff Averages
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
10-11 IND 5 0 16.0 0.371 0.438 0.900 0.4 1.0 1.4 1.2 0.6 0. 0 1.40 1.00 8.4

I thought AJ played well in the playoffs too until I looked at the stats you posted. 37% shooting and more turnovers then assists... that's pretty bad.

I don't want to trade him for the last pick of the draft either, but those stats aren't helping the argument for keeping him.

HC
03-02-2012, 03:54 PM
There's another thread here talking about Vogel saying A.J. is going to get the minutes at back-up point guard now, so that the second string guards are Hill and Price. It appears that Price is going to get minutes and Stephenson is the one who won't get many. So I think your point about him getting minutes only because Hill was out isn't relevant now.

Some of us think Price can be a key contributor off the bench, although he hasn't had much chance to do that until just lately. I think the bench will be better with Price than it would be without him, so I don't see any reason to send him away unless you get something substantial in return.

I don't know if a lot of people are really down on AJ. It could be just more of a "where does he fit in" thing, because everyone knows what Larry thinks of Lance. I know I like AJ better than Watson, Strickland, worn out Kenny Anderson, and Jamison Brewer. With the exception of Jarrett Jack, AJ is imo the most solid backup caliber pg the Pacers have had in a while. If Larry didn't think so highly of Lance, it wouldn't even be an issue.

pacer4ever
03-02-2012, 04:05 PM
I don't know if a lot of people are really down on AJ. It could be just more of a "where does he fit in" thing, because everyone knows what Larry thinks of Lance. I know I like AJ better than Watson, Strickland, worn out Kenny Anderson, and Jamison Brewer. With the exception of Jarrett Jack, AJ is imo the most solid backup caliber pg the Pacers have had in a while. If Larry didn't think so highly of Lance, it wouldn't even be an issue.

ill take Earl Watson all day over AJ Price Earl is a better player on his defense alone and then add in his court vision he is a really solid backup pg.

Anthem
03-02-2012, 04:25 PM
Why would we trade our solid backup point for a 2nd rounder? That makes very little sense to me. It's 1st rounder or bust. 2nd rounders are very easy to come by, especially ones as poor as LA's.
I realize there's 5 more pages of discussion after this, but this is a pretty good summation of my position.

The Lakers have to know they're not gonna get AJ from us for a mid-50s pick.

Really?
03-02-2012, 04:50 PM
Last thing, people overvalue weak assets when they are playing good, and then once they go back to playing normal people are like we should have traded him when we could.

Freddie fan
03-02-2012, 06:55 PM
Last thing, people overvalue weak assets when they are playing good, and then once they go back to playing normal people are like we should have traded him when we could.

Or they undervalue assets when they aren't getting a chance to play much, and once they are traded and play well somewhere else are like we should have kept him and didn't get enough for him.

P.S. - that was your last thing. no further comments to disagree. : )

90'sNBARocked
03-02-2012, 07:18 PM
AJ is a UFA after this year right? If they don't plan on keeping him they might as well get some sort of draft pick or something if they can.

AJ had like 3 good games all year, and he was only getting minutes because GHill was out. It's not like he is a key contributor to our wins like some of you think.

maybe, but right now he knows the system, and the team well. He can run the point well enough that it only makes sense to keep him unless we get a better point in return. I wouldnt trade him for a first round pick unless it was top 10. He is more valuable to us than his market worth. Plus I wouldnt want to go forward with the only guards being DC Hill and Lance

spazzxb
03-02-2012, 07:30 PM
There's another thread here talking about Vogel saying A.J. is going to get the minutes at back-up point guard now, so that the second string guards are Hill and Price. It appears that Price is going to get minutes and Stephenson is the one who won't get many. So I think your point about him getting minutes only because Hill was out isn't relevant now.

Some of us think Price can be a key contributor off the bench, although he hasn't had much chance to do that until just lately. I think the bench will be better with Price than it would be without him, so I don't see any reason to send him away unless you get something substantial in return.

Prior to George Hill getting hurt we had a good record. This was without really playing AJ. I believe our 5 game losing streak all came with AJ at backup pg. If the team is confident in George Hills ability at pg, this does make AJ somewhat expendable. I wouldn't, however, give him away for nothing. How is the fact that AJ didn't really contribute to our record prior to G Hills injury not relevant.

Hoop
03-02-2012, 08:02 PM
AJ isn't as good as people are making him out to be he is easily replaceable with a Dleague player. It isnt like he is a great rotation player. He is the end of a rotation player at best more likely 3rd pg or 4th just for depth. If you can get value for a asset that you plan on upgrading next year I say do it. AJ's production can be replaced by a Mike James type veteran and in all honesty he will likely do his role better than AJ.

Of course some players don't pan out but I would much rather get value for Price who is easily replaceable.

EDIT: I mean Scola Gortat Manu and Ramon Sessions were picked in the last 5 picks in the draft. Yes you may strike out but if you have good scouts you can find a gem in the tail end of the draft. It seems like every year there is a solid player(meaning much better than AJ) picked in the last 10 spots.

It is worth the gamble since we are basically not giving anything up(especially considering the FO doesn't seem committed to keeping Price and I cant say I really blame them we can get a cheap upgrade in FA.
I strongly disagree, AJ is better than you and others give him credit for. He's easily replace by a D league player? BULL. 3rd or 4th PG? Hello he is currently the 2nd PG on a very good team, did you not notice?

I don't know what the TPTB have planned for AJ, he makes 854,389 and 1,060,120 next year, you really think we are going to get better production much cheaper than that.

Of course there are gems picked in the 2nd round every year. Not because some team has vastly superior scouts than another team. All the picks are educated guesses, sometimes they luck out. If these scouts you are talking about were geniuses, guys like Scola, Manu, Gortat and Sessions would not have slipped to the 2nd round in the first place.

The 2nd round is a crap shoot, always has been, regardless of good scouting. Heck the first round is a crap shoot, half the guys took in the lottery every year will be busts.

Half the guys took in the last half of the 1st round will not be on a NBA team in a few years, yet you seem to think it's so easy to pick a winner every time.

Justin Tyme
03-02-2012, 08:22 PM
Last thing, people overvalue weak assets when they are playing good, and then once they go back to playing normal people are like we should have traded him when we could.


NO ONE in this thread, especially you, has ever addressed the subject why the Lakers are interested in such a minute player like AJ. If I listen to many, yourself included, his playing value is not much of anything, and he's lucky to be getting any PT at all. I have to believe Vogel and Bird don't believe AJ is basically worthless, like some seem to believe, and his contributing value is worth far more than a #50 something 2nd rd pick.

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 08:30 PM
NO ONE in this thread, especially you, has ever addressed the subject why the Lakers are interested in such a minute player like AJ. If I listen to many, yourself included, his playing value is not much of anything, and he's lucky to be getting any PT at all. I have to believe Vogel and Bird don't believe AJ is basically worthless, like some seem to believe, and his contributing value is worth far more than a #50 something 2nd rd pick.

The Lakers are interested on a point guard because at this moment their point guards are bad, they are looking at Hinrich and Calderon but don't want to pay for the luxury tax, at this moment their best choice is to have a decent PG and AJ doesn't make much.

I could also answer the question by saying, well they are the Lakers that signed Murphy and Mcbob who knows? :)

Major Cold
03-02-2012, 08:30 PM
I really think that AJ has stepped up his game. Enough so to be rumored in a trade. If the Lakers could just pick up a Dleague player, why don't they?

I never would have thought that AJ would be rumored in a trade at the start of the year.

Really?
03-02-2012, 08:36 PM
NO ONE in this thread, especially you, has ever addressed the subject why the Lakers are interested in such a minute player like AJ. If I listen to many, yourself included, his playing value is not much of anything, and he's lucky to be getting any PT at all. I have to believe Vogel and Bird don't believe AJ is basically worthless, like some seem to believe, and his contributing value is worth far more than a #50 something 2nd rd pick.

Believe what you want, at one point in time Solomon Jones was getting PT as well, and actually I did say why I thought they were interested in him. I said I believe that they would like him to play a similar role to Derek Fischer more of a 1 that can hit the open 3 when it is kicked out to him. I doubt he will really be running much of a offense, and if they really thought much of him then they would offer a #1 pick. I do not think that he has no value, but I do think that his value is negligible and could be found other places.

Ex. Mike James, James OnCurry...etc As far as the players that were picked in the range their pick would be I said last year, Josh Selby, Etwuan Moore, and Isiah Thomas were all in that range. There are going to be AJ Price type players in every draft, just look for the senior guard that doesn't have much potential and can hit 3's.

Really?
03-02-2012, 08:39 PM
I really think that AJ has stepped up his game. Enough so to be rumored in a trade. If the Lakers could just pick up a Dleague player, why don't they?

I never would have thought that AJ would be rumored in a trade at the start of the year.

Exactly, and you never would have thought that for a good reason, as far as the dleague question, I have no idea... but that is their problem.

Pacers13Colts12
03-02-2012, 08:46 PM
Watching ESPN tonight, Chris Broussard said the Lakers are looking to shed some salary.

So I decided to look at their roster, and think about what we need at the same time. I wouldn't mind us getting a shooter to come off the bench.

Jason Kapono, Luke Walton, Steve Blake? I know he is not a shooter, but what about Matt Barnes?

I wouldn't mind going after Kapono. I don't know what his numbers have been like this year, but in the past he was a deadly 3 point shooter. Salary is through the rest of the year at a little over a million.

Hypnotiq
03-02-2012, 08:53 PM
Watching ESPN tonight, Chris Broussard said the Lakers are looking to shed some salary.

So I decided to look at their roster, and think about what we need at the same time. I wouldn't mind us getting a shooter to come off the bench.

Jason Kapono, Luke Walton, Steve Blake? I know he is not a shooter, but what about Matt Barnes?

I wouldn't mind going after Kapono. I don't know what his numbers have been like this year, but in the past he was a deadly 3 point shooter. Salary is through the rest of the year at a little over a million.

none of them would make a difference

Freddie fan
03-02-2012, 08:54 PM
Prior to George Hill getting hurt we had a good record. This was without really playing AJ. I believe our 5 game losing streak all came with AJ at backup pg. If the team is confident in George Hills ability at pg, this does make AJ somewhat expendable. I wouldn't, however, give him away for nothing. How is the fact that AJ didn't really contribute to our record prior to G Hills injury not relevant.

Thanks for misquoting me! What I said is not relevant is the idea that A.J. was only getting minutes recently because Hill was hurt. The reason this is not relevant looking ahead is that Vogel has said he is going to play A.J. at point guard and George Hill at shooting guard for the time being.

"Vogel said before the game that he plans to use A.J. Price as the backup PG and Hill as the backup SG for the time being. That means the few Lance Stephenson was getting will likely decrease even more barring a blowout."

Mike Wells -- http://www.sulia.com/channel/basketball/f/43967394-0e69-447d-aa47-074c41438c6d/?source=twitter

While it's true that A.J. did play more during the five-game losing streak with Hill out, he has played even more during the current five-game winning streak: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4657/gamelog.

I think the Pacers are better right now with a second string backcourt of Hill and Price than Hill and Stephenson. Obviously, the Pacers were worse off without Hill in the mix at all when he was hurt. Duh. I don't think that is a surprise or that you can blame that on A.J.

spazzxb
03-02-2012, 10:02 PM
Thanks for misquoting me! What I said is not relevant is the idea that A.J. was only getting minutes recently because Hill was hurt. The reason this is not relevant looking ahead is that Vogel has said he is going to play A.J. at point guard and George Hill at shooting guard for the time being.

"Vogel said before the game that he plans to use A.J. Price as the backup PG and Hill as the backup SG for the time being. That means the few Lance Stephenson was getting will likely decrease even more barring a blowout."

Mike Wells -- http://www.sulia.com/channel/basketball/f/43967394-0e69-447d-aa47-074c41438c6d/?source=twitter

While it's true that A.J. did play more during the five-game losing streak with Hill out, he has played even more during the current five-game winning streak: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4657/gamelog.

I think the Pacers are better right now with a second string backcourt of Hill and Price than Hill and Stephenson. Obviously, the Pacers were worse off without Hill in the mix at all when he was hurt. Duh. I don't think that is a surprise or that you can blame that on A.J.

Any misquoting is a technical flaw. I never mentioned Lance. I said the comment was relevant to the conversation we are having, and explained why.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

ECKrueger
03-02-2012, 10:28 PM
I can't see how trading AJ, a second round pick who actually turned out decent, for a second round pick, which we could only hope would turn out decent, would be even slightly beneficial to us.

Unless Lance is just waiting to explode onto the scene.

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 10:31 PM
Ok so I think is fair to say that if they are not willing to give a pick for Sessions they are not giving a pick for AJ right?



Quote:
Sam Amico ‏ @SamAmicoFSO
Yes. I heard same earlier today. RT @mnanez5280 Hear anything about Lakers unwilling to give pick for Sessions as LA Times is reporting?

Anthem
03-02-2012, 10:45 PM
Ok so I think is fair to say that if they are not willing to give a pick for Sessions they are not giving a pick for AJ right?
I'd say that's fair.

But I don't know how the heck they think they're gonna get Sessions. You think teams are lining up trying to snag Kapono?

vnzla81
03-02-2012, 10:51 PM
I'd say that's fair.

But I don't know how the heck they think they're gonna get Sessions. You think teams are lining up trying to snag Kapono?

The Lakers have a trade exception that they could use to get Sessions, all Cleveland is asking for is a pick plus cap space but it looks like the Lakers are only willing to give them one of the two things they are asking for.

Sookie
03-02-2012, 11:09 PM
The Lakers front management has been odd, in general, so who knows what they'll do. They really need a point guard though. And I'm sure "solid and smart" sounds pretty good..

I think for AJ, this would be a good situation. He's young, and he's a better point guard than Blake and Fisher. And he's the type of PG you want to stick next to a guy like Kobe. And seeing as he's apparently the only guy Josh has kept in touch with, he wouldn't be surrounded with completely new teammates.

I don't think he has a future with the Pacers. And even if Larry would want to sign him. I think AJ's smart enough to know that it was for "insurance"reasons, and he'd likely have to wait an entire half a season to play again.

He's undervalued by some people. Particularly in the last 8 or 9 games. He's been REALLY good. Enough so that teams might notice him. I don't know that he'll keep it up, but I think consistency has been AJ's problem so far. (Well, along with injuries.) If he can continue to play as well as he had, of course team's are going to be interested. Recently He's been playing as an "at worst good backup PG." Any team would want that. Oh yea, and he's dirt cheap. (and he's so cheap that even if he goes to the Lakers and plays well, what's another team going to offer him? At the absolute most five million..okay so the Lakers offer him 2 and he stays because it's the Lakers..)


The Lakers are looking to shed salary? Maybe Kapono and Blake or Fisher for Price would be fair. We'd get a shooter and a backup point guard (which we'd still need, IMO, if we traded Price), they'd get a point guard and shed some salary.

If they wouldn't trade a pick for Sessions, then the only way I see them trading a pick for Price is if we take back Walton or Artest. I don't see us doing either.

Edit: BTW, you can't get rid of me unless Frank and PG go. :P

Pace Maker
03-03-2012, 01:39 AM
I'd rather just hold on to AJ and draft for a better back up this summer.

Besides, despite an awful start, AJ has been playing some good ball lately.

Gremz
03-03-2012, 02:03 AM
AJ + 2nd for 1st? :whoknows:

TheDavisBrothers
03-03-2012, 02:37 AM
Is it just me or weren't the Lakers dumb to let Farmar walk

immortality
03-03-2012, 03:35 AM
Is it just me or weren't the Lakers dumb to let Farmar walk

They got Steve Blake to replace him, but neither of them have been very productive. Farmar is rotting on Nets bench and Blake is just not that good anymore.

TheDavisBrothers
03-03-2012, 03:44 AM
They got Steve Blake to replace him, but neither of them have been very productive. Farmar is rotting on Nets bench and Blake is just not that good anymore.

Steve Blake has been terrible and Farmar has been a good 6th man for NJ, he's better and younger then Blake and Fisher are

pacer4ever
03-03-2012, 08:32 AM
I strongly disagree, AJ is better than you and others give him credit for. He's easily replace by a D league player? BULL. 3rd or 4th PG? Hello he is currently the 2nd PG on a very good team, did you not notice?

I don't know what the TPTB have planned for AJ, he makes 854,389 and 1,060,120 next year, you really think we are going to get better production much cheaper than that.

Of course there are gems picked in the 2nd round every year. Not because some team has vastly superior scouts than another team. All the picks are educated guesses, sometimes they luck out. If these scouts you are talking about were geniuses, guys like Scola, Manu, Gortat and Sessions would not have slipped to the 2nd round in the first place.

The 2nd round is a crap shoot, always has been, regardless of good scouting. Heck the first round is a crap shoot, half the guys took in the lottery every year will be busts.

Half the guys took in the last half of the 1st round will not be on a NBA team in a few years, yet you seem to think it's so easy to pick a winner every time.

It isnt easy per say,but it is defiantly easy to replace AJ in free agency or draft. The pg position needs an upgrade and we defiantly will be in the market for one in free agency and currently Mike James is a free agent along with Arenas. The Lakers arent stupid they will probably end up giving nothing away and picking up Arenas or James.


I see the Pacers going after a Ramon Sessions who has a PO which he will likley turn down. Now I ask who you would rather have Sessions for MLE money or AJ for 1 or 2 million for me that is easy Sessions is a upgrade on both sides of the ball and worth the money.

Raymond Felton is a free agent I expect us to make a play I think Vogel would restore his confidence. He would probably be my first option he or Sessions.

Dragic is another option in free agency not a huge fan but he would be a upgrade he is basically the same mold as Price except he is a much better shooter and at getting to the basket.

I think it is silly to think Price is still the backup next year he is only the backup pg because Larry though Lance and George Hill were a position they are not.

JonnyB83
03-03-2012, 12:31 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O

LG33
03-03-2012, 01:05 PM
In addition to his on-floor contributions, A.J. Price seems like a consummate professional off the court and a great teammate on the bench. Whenever a Pacer highlight is recorded on the court and they show the bench reaction, the biggest cheerleaders are consistently Dahntay Jones and A.J. Price. Does that mean we shouldn't look to upgrade the spot? No, clearly not. But we could do a lot worse than A.J. Price.

xIndyFan
03-03-2012, 01:09 PM
It isnt easy per say,but it is defiantly easy to replace AJ in free agency or draft. The pg position needs an upgrade and we defiantly will be in the market for one in free agency and currently Mike James is a free agent along with Arenas. The Lakers arent stupid they will probably end up giving nothing away and picking up Arenas or James.


I see the Pacers going after a Ramon Sessions who has a PO which he will likley turn down. Now I ask who you would rather have Sessions for MLE money or AJ for 1 or 2 million for me that is easy Sessions is a upgrade on both sides of the ball and worth the money.

Raymond Felton is a free agent I expect us to make a play I think Vogel would restore his confidence. He would probably be my first option he or Sessions.

Dragic is another option in free agency not a huge fan but he would be a upgrade he is basically the same mold as Price except he is a much better shooter and at getting to the basket.

I think it is silly to think Price is still the backup next year he is only the backup pg because Larry though Lance and George Hill were a position they are not.

i don't think any of this is going to happen. either now or next summer. sessions, felton, dragic are just guys. the same as DC only different skill sets. any new PG will be an upgrade like jennings, rondo, wall or parker. guys that are 'top 10', but not 'top 5'. DC and AJ are both good enough, but they are not great. pacers seem to be looking for a serious upgrade, not just a different guy.

Hoop
03-03-2012, 08:34 PM
It isnt easy per say,but it is defiantly easy to replace AJ in free agency or draft. The pg position needs an upgrade and we defiantly will be in the market for one in free agency and currently Mike James is a free agent along with Arenas. The Lakers arent stupid they will probably end up giving nothing away and picking up Arenas or James.


I see the Pacers going after a Ramon Sessions who has a PO which he will likley turn down. Now I ask who you would rather have Sessions for MLE money or AJ for 1 or 2 million for me that is easy Sessions is a upgrade on both sides of the ball and worth the money.

Raymond Felton is a free agent I expect us to make a play I think Vogel would restore his confidence. He would probably be my first option he or Sessions.

Dragic is another option in free agency not a huge fan but he would be a upgrade he is basically the same mold as Price except he is a much better shooter and at getting to the basket.

I think it is silly to think Price is still the backup next year he is only the backup pg because Larry though Lance and George Hill were a position they are not.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

We're still arguing the same thing. You still say it's just so butt simple to replace AJ. D-League, free agent, random 2nd rounder, random dude from local YMCA game. It's just not that simple. You just see the grass as always greener on the other side.

My view, AJ is a gamer, he just knows how to play, even if he shoots a little to much some times. He blew his knee out before his senior season, one reason he was 2nd rounder to begin with. After his rookie season he tore his patella, was still ready for training camp. He's been wrote off every season and has still fought his way into the rotation, I admire that and think it means something.

He's probably the healthiest he's been since he's been in the NBA. His ceiling is not sky high, but he can and will get better. He's knows the Pacers' system, has played with all the guys for a while, that gives him a leg up right off the bat to some random other PG.

McKeyFan
03-04-2012, 09:52 AM
I haven't been able to get through this entire thread, my my two cents is that A.J. is probably far more valuable for us than what others want to give for him.

A second round pick is in no way enough for A.J. A late first or some kind of package would have to be the scenario.

A.J. is a solid contributor who has proven that he can step up and make a difference in the playoffs. You'll find that player in the second round one time out of a hundred.

pacer4ever
03-04-2012, 11:19 AM
We'll just have to agree to disagree.

We're still arguing the same thing. You still say it's just so butt simple to replace AJ. D-League, free agent, random 2nd rounder, random dude from local YMCA game. It's just not that simple. You just see the grass as always greener on the other side.

My view, AJ is a gamer, he just knows how to play, even if he shoots a little to much some times. He blew his knee out before his senior season, one reason he was 2nd rounder to begin with. After his rookie season he tore his patella, was still ready for training camp. He's been wrote off every season and has still fought his way into the rotation, I admire that and think it means something.

He's probably the healthiest he's been since he's been in the NBA. His ceiling is not sky high, but he can and will get better. He's knows the Pacers' system, has played with all the guys for a while, that gives him a leg up right off the bat to some random other PG.

Right there is the reason the Pacer aren't gonna trade him and will just let him expire or try to give him a cheap contract to be the 3rd string pg. I dont view the grass is always greener I just watch a lot of basketball and IMO there are much better options as a backup pg and next year I would be shocked if AJ is the main backup. I still think if we brought in Mike James to compete with AJ for the backup role by the playoffs James would be the backup.


Also whoever said AJ proved he can help and make a difference in the playoffs is wrong. Go back and watch the tape the dude was awful in almost every aspect of the game in the playoffs last year.

Really?
03-04-2012, 12:07 PM
In addition to his on-floor contributions, A.J. Price seems like a consummate professional off the court and a great teammate on the bench. Whenever a Pacer highlight is recorded on the court and they show the bench reaction, the biggest cheerleaders are consistently Dahntay Jones and A.J. Price. Does that mean we shouldn't look to upgrade the spot? No, clearly not. But we could do a lot worse than A.J. Price.

Great a cheerleader what we always needed, lol again like what i said before once he starts playing bad again people will be like we should have traded him while we could, in 21 min vs NO he went 1-5, and 1-4 from 3, 3 assist and 2 turnovers, I think you guys are really overvaluing him, he is worth more than the last pick of the 2nd round but definitely not worth a first, In all honesty the only players that could be traded for a 1st in the early 20's in this years draft on our team are PG, Danny, Roy, and Dwest, possibly GH

Sookie
03-04-2012, 12:12 PM
Right there is the reason the Pacer aren't gonna trade him and will just let him expire or try to give him a cheap contract to be the 3rd string pg. I dont view the grass is always greener I just watch a lot of basketball and IMO there are much better options as a backup pg and next year I would be shocked if AJ is the main backup. I still think if we brought in Mike James to compete with AJ for the backup role by the playoffs James would be the backup.


Also whoever said AJ proved he can help and make a difference in the playoffs is wrong. Go back and watch the tape the dude was awful in almost every aspect of the game in the playoffs last year.

Except he wasn't, he played very well except for a three minute stretch in game 2. He actually played what was probably the best point guard play we've seen in years during crunch time of that same game.

If Price keeps up his play during the past 10 games (yes, I know he shot poorly last night, but he still played well) for the rest of the season, ANY team would take him. Backup point guards aren't as good as you make them out to be, and when AJ's playing well, he's easily one of the better ones.

Naptown_Seth
03-04-2012, 12:17 PM
Let's just use the Lakers own logic before we start discarding AJ.

I hear stuff like this...

It isnt easy per say,but it is defiantly easy to replace AJ in free agency or draft.
And think "then why don't the Lakers just do it that way"?


AJ is not a starter, but he IS filling his role pretty well. Enough that other teams would like him to fill that role for them too. That tells me that he's not easy to replace and that if you move him then you are in the same spot the Lakers are in, unless you have surplus you can count on.

So then the Lance debates kick in, but for the 2nd year in a row Lance has been given a solid role off the bench and ended up losing it. Not at the hands of crazy JOB, but at the hands of Vogel who has shown lots of interest in developing the younger players.


If AJ is easy to replace then why not trade Lance to the Lakers instead and get an even better pick than AJ gets you (if Lance truly is better/more valuable than AJ). And if the Lakers don't want Lance, and Vogel has decided that for now AJ is helping more, then why do you want to risk derailing where this team is at for a minimal return on AJ?




You trade AJ + Lou for an upgrade at big, you don't trade AJ for a 2nd round pick. That's literally taking money out of your wallet and just throwing it on the ground.

This team barely has enough to get by. It can't give up any of the top 6 assets without getting a clear improvement back, and it's even risky giving away Tyler, DJones or AJ at this point.

The asset the Pacers have is what makes Kaman a better fit - cap space. They need one more body, and if you have to give one to get one that doesn't help.

Tom White
03-04-2012, 12:22 PM
The irony of all this talk of late 2nd rounders is that AJ is a late 2nd rounder himself (53rd overall in 2009). Yes, I know how rare it is to get a useful player there, but Price himself is proof that it can be done.

Yeah, I find it humorous that so many would trade AJ for a second round pick, who is more than likely destined to become...............AJ.

Guys, I think Price gives the team very much what they need from him. He is solid on the floor, does not complain about playing time or "touches", and seems to fit well with the other guys.

Heck, if you want another second round pick next year, just buy one. Probably could be had pretty cheaply.

Sookie
03-04-2012, 12:23 PM
Well, I think the Lakers own logic is simply - we need a freaking point guard.

After the rust came off, AJ's played pretty well. Probably better than Fisher's corpse and Blake...He's also the type of point you'd stick next to Kobe. (Like Chalmers or heck Fisher) He doesn't need to the ball in his hands, knows how to make really good post entry passes, and knows how to make reads to get himself open when his teammates get into trouble.

All that stuff fits on a team with good post players and a star guard who wants the ball in his hands.

Naptown_Seth
03-04-2012, 12:34 PM
he is worth more than the last pick of the 2nd round but definitely not worth a first,At the very least you demand a pick that on average has the same NBA PER over 4-5 years as AJ has had. That's not a 2nd round pick. Nearly all 2nd round picks end up entirely out of the NBA.

I'd have to go pull the articles on this, but several studies have been done (and posted here) showing what you expect from a pick. T-bird or Count55 did one even IIRC.

And "bench PG who plays 5-10 mpg" fall around 23rd-26th by my memory. Stars are 1-5, period. Starters are 6-12. Bench is 13-18. The rest is random fodder to fill out rosters. The 2nd round is for non-NBA players.

The exceptions do not change this any more than the top 5 busts change the rule about where most stars come from. Danny and Roy at 17 are exceptions, AJ deep 2nd round is a massive steal.

People just forget all the duds in the 20-30 pick range because they get forgotten once they don't make a roster. You only remember the guys that do make a team.


I'm just not interested in trading Price for a pick that gets you Wayne Ellington, Demarre Carroll, Victor Claver or Christian Eyenga. We don't need Mardy Collison or Maurice Ager. Those are the 50% risks you run if you trade AJ for a 20-30 pick. You might get a guy giving you as much (maybe 20%) and you might get a guy that gives you more (30%) but it's not a favorable gamble.

Naptown_Seth
03-04-2012, 12:37 PM
Well, I think the Lakers own logic is simply - we need a freaking point guard.

After the rust came off, AJ's played pretty well. Probably better than Fisher's corpse and Blake...He's also the type of point you'd stick next to Kobe. (Like Chalmers or heck Fisher) He doesn't need to the ball in his hands, knows how to make really good post entry passes, and knows how to make reads to get himself open when his teammates get into trouble.

All that stuff fits on a team with good post players and a star guard who wants the ball in his hands.
Yeah, but I think the Pacers do too. I think there is high risk in relying on Lance at this point. At best he's got a future and you are developing him with AJ to hold the maturity fort down, at worst he doesn't help any more than AJ does ever and you just gave up critical help in a realistic chase for an ECF run.

The team can't afford a shuffle, the need a full-on addition.

Really?
03-04-2012, 12:57 PM
At the very least you demand a pick that on average has the same NBA PER over 4-5 years as AJ has had. That's not a 2nd round pick. Nearly all 2nd round picks end up entirely out of the NBA.

I'd have to go pull the articles on this, but several studies have been done (and posted here) showing what you expect from a pick. T-bird or Count55 did one even IIRC.

And "bench PG who plays 5-10 mpg" fall around 23rd-26th by my memory. Stars are 1-5, period. Starters are 6-12. Bench is 13-18. The rest is random fodder to fill out rosters. The 2nd round is for non-NBA players.

The exceptions do not change this any more than the top 5 busts change the rule about where most stars come from. Danny and Roy at 17 are exceptions, AJ deep 2nd round is a massive steal.

People just forget all the duds in the 20-30 pick range because they get forgotten once they don't make a roster. You only remember the guys that do make a team.


I'm just not interested in trading Price for a pick that gets you Wayne Ellington, Demarre Carroll, Victor Claver or Christian Eyenga. We don't need Mardy Collison or Maurice Ager. Those are the 50% risks you run if you trade AJ for a 20-30 pick. You might get a guy giving you as much (maybe 20%) and you might get a guy that gives you more (30%) but it's not a favorable gamble.

Some one else earlier said they saw a study that showed 50% of 2nd round picks play past their rookie contracts. I think how much time a guy gets and if he gets cut really depends on the team he is with.

Thing is with 2nd round picks as you said you really do not expect much, you either get a bench player or they are usually out the league.

A lot of the guys that got picked around AJ are still in the NBA and doing a lot of the same things he is.

And talking about the other point.

Comparing Patrick Mills and AJ Price

They are very similar as far as numbers and contributions to teams, but Mills is not playing in the NBA right now, and that is more about a team thing not his overall play.

Just comparing their numbers in the first 3 years.

Mills averges 11 min per game, shot 41.7 percent, 35% from 3, 1.5 assist and 5.1 pts

Price averages 15.2 min, shot 38.3%, 31% from 3, 2 assist, 6.5 pts
both shot about 74-75% FT

These guys are very much similar, it is just all about situation, like I said be for Price could as easily be overseas or in the Dleague as he could in the NBA...

Really?
03-04-2012, 01:04 PM
At the very least you demand a pick that on average has the same NBA PER over 4-5 years as AJ has had. That's not a 2nd round pick. Nearly all 2nd round picks end up entirely out of the NBA.

I'd have to go pull the articles on this, but several studies have been done (and posted here) showing what you expect from a pick. T-bird or Count55 did one even IIRC.

And "bench PG who plays 5-10 mpg" fall around 23rd-26th by my memory. Stars are 1-5, period. Starters are 6-12. Bench is 13-18. The rest is random fodder to fill out rosters. The 2nd round is for non-NBA players.

The exceptions do not change this any more than the top 5 busts change the rule about where most stars come from. Danny and Roy at 17 are exceptions, AJ deep 2nd round is a massive steal.

People just forget all the duds in the 20-30 pick range because they get forgotten once they don't make a roster. You only remember the guys that do make a team.


I'm just not interested in trading Price for a pick that gets you Wayne Ellington, Demarre Carroll, Victor Claver or Christian Eyenga. We don't need Mardy Collison or Maurice Ager. Those are the 50% risks you run if you trade AJ for a 20-30 pick. You might get a guy giving you as much (maybe 20%) and you might get a guy that gives you more (30%) but it's not a favorable gamble.

Lastly just looking at the guys that got drafted in the 2nd the same year as AJ...

Patrick Mills 55
AJ 52
Danny Green46
Chase Budinger 44
Marcus Thornton 43
Jodie Meeks 41
Derrick Brown 40
Jonas Jerebko 39
Dejuan Blair 37
Sam Yong 36
Dajuan Summers 35
Dante Cunningham 33
Jermaine Tayler 32
Jeff Pendergraph 31

The others were foreign players, most who have never came over. A majority of these guys are still in the league and playing similar roles as AJ, many are doing better than him.

pacer4ever
03-04-2012, 01:04 PM
Let's just use the Lakers own logic before we start discarding AJ.

I hear stuff like this...

And think "then why don't the Lakers just do it that way"?


AJ is not a starter, but he IS filling his role pretty well. Enough that other teams would like him to fill that role for them too. That tells me that he's not easy to replace and that if you move him then you are in the same spot the Lakers are in, unless you have surplus you can count on.

So then the Lance debates kick in, but for the 2nd year in a row Lance has been given a solid role off the bench and ended up losing it. Not at the hands of crazy JOB, but at the hands of Vogel who has shown lots of interest in developing the younger players.


If AJ is easy to replace then why not trade Lance to the Lakers instead and get an even better pick than AJ gets you (if Lance truly is better/more valuable than AJ). And if the Lakers don't want Lance, and Vogel has decided that for now AJ is helping more, then why do you want to risk derailing where this team is at for a minimal return on AJ?




You trade AJ + Lou for an upgrade at big, you don't trade AJ for a 2nd round pick. That's literally taking money out of your wallet and just throwing it on the ground.

This team barely has enough to get by. It can't give up any of the top 6 assets without getting a clear improvement back, and it's even risky giving away Tyler, DJones or AJ at this point.

The asset the Pacers have is what makes Kaman a better fit - cap space. They need one more body, and if you have to give one to get one that doesn't help.


Because the Lakers dont have the cap room to add a good player in free agency all they have is the MMLE. We have cap room we can go out and get Ramon Sessions or another free agent who is a upgrade of not only Price but arguably the same level as Darren.

The Lakers already have a solid backup in Blake/Fisher/Goudlock combo their real need is a starter. Which they aren't going to be able to find very easily their best option is via trade imo but most teams arent going to trade their starting pg to the Lakers because they have no real assets outside of a TPE and a few late 1st rd picks.

Just so it is clear I wouldn't do it for just a late 2nd rd they would have to add a sweetener but if Bird still in the same mindset I highly doubt Price is back next year in BnG so it would make sense to get value while you can.

Anyway this discussion is pointless they aren't trading any assets for Price they can just add him next year in FA if they really want him.

I expect the Lakers to try to draft a pg of the future in the draft. Even though it is a weak pg draft there is a pg or 2 who would be a great fit next to Kobe and with the picks they currently have they may be able to move up if necessary to get that pg.

Anthem
03-04-2012, 03:34 PM
Some one else earlier said they saw a study that showed 50% of 2nd round picks play past their rookie contracts.
Ok... but then you listed 14 people (out of a 30-person draft) who are still on rookie contracts and still in the league.

So in AJ's year, which was exceptionally deep, over half the guys are already out of the NBA, and we haven't even started on second contracts? Am I reading your data correctly?

I'd love to see a link to that study.

Lance George
03-04-2012, 03:55 PM
I don't even think Price is one of the top-five picks from the second round of the 2009 draft.

Marcus Thornton
DeJuan Blair
Chase Budinger
Jodie Meeks
Jonas Jerebko

I'd take any of the above five players over him, without question, and there are a few others (Danny Green, Sam Young, Jermaine Taylor) I'd have to think about.

I wouldn't move him for a late second round pick, no, but if I could get a pick in the 30s for him, I might take it.

Really?
03-04-2012, 05:41 PM
Ok... but then you listed 14 people (out of a 30-person draft) who are still on rookie contracts and still in the league.

So in AJ's year, which was exceptionally deep, over half the guys are already out of the NBA, and we haven't even started on second contracts? Am I reading your data correctly?

I'd love to see a link to that study.

No, most are still over seas, the were more than 10 foreign players drafted that year, go check it out yourself on wikipedia or wherever you would like to look.

Justin Tyme
03-04-2012, 05:56 PM
Because the Lakers dont have the cap room to add a good player in free agency all they have is the MMLE. We have cap room we can go out and get Ramon Sessions or another free agent who is a upgrade of not only Price but arguably the same level as Darren.



So you are saying they can't use their Odom TE to get Sessions or a FA this summer?

Lance George
03-04-2012, 05:57 PM
Here's a list of second rounders who've averaged roughly 50+ games per-season since being draft:

2001 Draft (500+ Games)
29. Trenton Hassell (644)
30. Gilbert Arenas (535)
34. Brian Scalabrine (512)
37. Mehmet Okur (634)
39. Earl Watson (791)
52. Jarron Collins (542)

2002 Draft (450+ Games)
33. Dan Gadzuric (525)
34. Carlos Boozer (607)
41. Ronald Murray (487)
45. Matt Barnes (531)
49. Darius Songaila (495)
52. Rasual Butler (637)

(Note: Luis Scola [357 games] went 55th in this draft)

2003 Draft (400+ Games)
31. Jason Kapono (507)
32. Luke Walton (493)
38. Steve Blake (601)
41. Willie Green (534)
42. Zaza Pachulia (616)
43. Keith Bogans (591)
45. Matt Bonner (532)
47. Mo Williams (568)
49. James Jones (474)
51. Kyle Korver (637)

2004 Draft (350+ Games)
30. Anderson Varejao (444)
37. Royal Ivey (417)
38. Chris Duhon (535)
43. Trevor Ariza (485)

2005 Draft (300+ Games)
33. Brandon Bass (364)
34. C.J. Miles (369)
37. Ronny Turiaf (362)
40. Monta Ellis (408)
45. Louis Williams (428)
49. Andray Blatche (401)
50. Ryan Gomes (480)
56. Amir Johnson (325)

(Note: Ersan Ilyasova [243 games] and Marcin Gortat [266] were taken 36th and 57th, respectively, in this draft.)

2006 Draft (250+ Games)
32. Steve Novak (250)
33. Solomon Jones (266)
36. Craig Smith (388)
42. Daniel Gibson (343)
47. Paul Millsap (433)
50. Ryan Hollins (293)

2007 Draft (200+ Games)
31. Carl Landry (291)
35. Glen Davis (312)
47. Dominic McGuire (283)
48. Marc Gasol (269)
49. Aaron Gray (210)
56. Ramon Sessions (294)

2008 Draft (150+ Games)
34. Mario Chalmers (260)
35. DeAndre Jordan (237)
37. Luc Mbah a Moute (258)
40. Chris Douglas-Roberts (155)
45. Goran Dragic (242)
47. Bill Walker (155)

2009 Draft (100+ Games)
33. Dante Cunningham (178)
36. Sam Young (176)
37. DeJuan Blair (199)
38. Jon Brockman (134)
39. Jonas Jerebko (118)
40. Derrick Brown (140)
41. Jodie Meeks (171)
43. Marcus Thornton (175)
44. Chase Budinger (184)
52. A.J. Price (129)

2010 Draft (50+ games)
39. Landry Fields (118)
52. Luke Harangody (64)
55. Jeremy Evans (66)

(Note: Jeremy Lin [51 games] went undrafted.)

A.J.'s an above-average second rounder, especially considering he went late second round, but he's far from a rarity. There are multiple players drafted in the second round every year who end up better, many of them significantly so.

The Lakers second is currently pick 53, I believe, so it's really not worth it unless we have another point guard lined up. Even if we don't plan on retaining him this offseason, having him around for the next 31 games and the playoffs beats a late second rounder.

Really?
03-04-2012, 06:09 PM
Here's a list of second rounders who've averaged roughly 50+ games per-season since being draft:

2001 Draft (500+ Games)
29. Trenton Hassell (644)
30. Gilbert Arenas (535)
34. Brian Scalabrine (512)
37. Mehmet Okur (634)
39. Earl Watson (791)
52. Jarron Collins (542)

2002 Draft (450+ Games)
33. Dan Gadzuric (525)
34. Carlos Boozer (607)
41. Ronald Murray (487)
45. Matt Barnes (531)
49. Darius Songaila (495)
52. Rasual Butler (637)

(Note: Luis Scola [357 games] went 55th in this draft)

2003 Draft (400+ Games)
31. Jason Kapono (507)
32. Luke Walton (493)
38. Steve Blake (601)
41. Willie Green (534)
42. Zaza Pachulia (616)
43. Keith Bogans (591)
45. Matt Bonner (532)
47. Mo Williams (568)
49. James Jones (474)
51. Kyle Korver (637)

2004 Draft (350+ Games)
30. Anderson Varejao (444)
37. Royal Ivey (417)
38. Chris Duhon (535)
43. Trevor Ariza (485)

2005 Draft (300+ Games)
33. Brandon Bass (364)
34. C.J. Miles (369)
37. Ronny Turiaf (362)
40. Monta Ellis (408)
45. Louis Williams (428)
49. Andray Blatche (401)
50. Ryan Gomes (480)
56. Amir Johnson (325)

(Note: Ersan Ilyasova [243 games] and Marcin Gortat [266] were taken 36th and 57th, respectively, in this draft.)

2006 Draft (250+ Games)
32. Steve Novak (250)
33. Solomon Jones (266)
36. Craig Smith (388)
42. Daniel Gibson (343)
47. Paul Millsap (433)
50. Ryan Hollins (293)

2007 Draft (200+ Games)
31. Carl Landry (291)
35. Glen Davis (312)
47. Dominic McGuire (283)
48. Marc Gasol (269)
49. Aaron Gray (210)
56. Ramon Sessions (294)

2008 Draft (150+ Games)
34. Mario Chalmers (260)
35. DeAndre Jordan (237)
37. Luc Mbah a Moute (258)
40. Chris Douglas-Roberts (155)
45. Goran Dragic (242)
47. Bill Walker (155)

2009 Draft (100+ Games)
33. Dante Cunningham (178)
36. Sam Young (176)
37. DeJuan Blair (199)
38. Jon Brockman (134)
39. Jonas Jerebko (118)
40. Derrick Brown (140)
41. Jodie Meeks (171)
43. Marcus Thornton (175)
44. Chase Budinger (184)
52. A.J. Price (129)

2010 Draft (50+ games)
39. Landry Fields (118)
52. Luke Harangody (64)
55. Jeremy Evans (66)

(Note: Jeremy Lin [51 games] went undrafted.)

A.J.'s an above-average second rounder, especially considering he went late second round, but he's far from a rarity. There are multiple players drafted in the second round every year who end up better, many of them significantly so.

The Lakers second is currently pick 53, I believe, so it's really not worth it unless we have another point guard lined up. Even if we don't plan on retaining him this offseason, having him around for the next 31 games and the playoffs beats a late second rounder.

Interesting, thanks for putting that together, I would like to see the amount of international players that did not come over that were drafted in the 2nd as well, and which players did not play in 50+, Also as I said with Patrick Mills a lot of this stuff also depends on what team you are on and how mature your game is, AJ got drafted as a Sr, I would assume that some of the younger players took more time to develop before they started seeing PT.

But yeah you are talking about the Bulls 2nd right? Because the Lakers is already traded away to Dallas.

Lance George
03-04-2012, 06:29 PM
Interesting, thanks for putting that together, I would like to see the amount of international players that did not come over that were drafted in the 2nd as well, and which players did not play in 50+, Also as I said with Patrick Mills a lot of this stuff also depends on what team you are on and how mature your game is, AJ got drafted as a Sr, I would assume that some of the younger players took more time to develop before they started seeing PT.

But yeah you are talking about the Bulls 2nd right? Because the Lakers is already traded away to Dallas.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft

It's Chicago's 2nd? Christ, even worse. I don't even like A.J. that much, and even I think that deal would suck for us.

Really?
03-04-2012, 06:47 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft

It's Chicago's 2nd? Christ, even worse. I don't even like A.J. that much, and even I think that deal would suck for us.

Yeah me too, would not trade him for Chicagos 2nd, might as well just take your chances grabbing your guy as a free agent.

beast23
03-05-2012, 12:45 AM
A lot of what we've discussed recently really comes down to what a draft pick is worth and what quality of player can you expect to gain (on average) with a particular range of pick.

GRH provided a listing of some of the players taken in the second round that have had "staying power" over the last few years.

For those interested in a fantastic presentation regarding draft pick position, I would urge you to search on "what will a draft pick get ya" by "Count55". The search will provide several threads that will provide some very theoretical and interesting reading. The threads were provided by Count in May 2009.

Really?
03-06-2012, 08:39 AM
Jon Lucas> AJ Price, lol

Another 1 for night shooting, but yup like you said definitely not worth a 1st, more than the last pick, I would put his worth right about the 50-52 range. But anyways if he is going to get 15-20 min a game he will have to put together a better effort than he has recently.