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View Full Version : Another look at the starting point guard controversy.



Infinite MAN_force
02-29-2012, 07:14 PM
I was perusing 8points9seconds today and came across an interesting tidbit I thought I would share. Part of Tim Donahue's "By the Numbers" segment.

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2012/02/by-the-numbers-at-the-all-star-break-through-33-games/


-30.7 per 100

From a Net +/- perspective, the George Hill/Paul George combination has been the worst backcourt the Pacers have put on the floor this season. They’ve played 97 minutes, and while that’s not enough to draw final conclusions, it is enough to be at least mildly concerned.

And while it would be convenient to move further up the lineup, and blame this on the 61 minutes played with Dahntay Jones, that doesn’t clear things up. It’s true that they’ve been worse with Dahntay (-32.2/100), but they’ve been pretty terrible with Danny, too…posting a -27.8/100 in that 36 minutes, scoring only 69 points per 100.

Just thought I'd put this out there, given some of Well's recent assertions that Vogel may be preparing to move George Hill into the starting lineup at the Point Guard spot. Sample size isn't great, but I think the idea that "Hill can't possibly be any worse than Collison at running the offense" may be more inaccurate than some realize.

Anthem
02-29-2012, 07:20 PM
Good catch!

At this point, I consider Hill to be solely a shooting guard, who can cover the PG spot in an emergency. But it wouldn't be until Collison and Price are out.

ilive4sports
02-29-2012, 07:40 PM
I said awhile back that it seemed like PG worked better with DC than he did with GH just from my observations in the games. I think part of the reason is that we are asking so much from GH so soon. The man is still learning to play with this team. I think he should focus on getting some chemistry with Tyler right now so that second unit can become what we expected it to be.

AesopRockOn
02-29-2012, 08:03 PM
Though I think DC should remain as the starter and finisher, I do feel like Vogel could go for Hill over DC on final defensive possessions.

spazzxb
02-29-2012, 08:07 PM
Good catch!

At this point, I consider Hill to be solely a shooting guard, who can cover the PG spot in an emergency. But it wouldn't be until Collison and Price are out.

I hope he is better than that, considering the payday he's looking for and what we gave up to get him.

Infinite MAN_force
02-29-2012, 08:33 PM
I hope he is better than that, considering the payday he's looking for and what we gave up to get him.

I never really thought we were acquiring him to be a PG. Combo Guard who can play both positions off the bench. You see guys like this fill a combo guard type role off the bench all the time ie Jason Terry. Great 6th man material.

However, I don't think anyone wants Jason Terry to be their starting PG, and the same goes for George Hill.

CJ Jones
02-29-2012, 08:50 PM
I never really thought we were acquiring him to be a PG. Combo Guard who can play both positions off the bench. You see guys like this fill a combo guard type role off the bench all the time ie Jason Terry. Great 6th man material.

However, I don't think anyone wants Jason Terry to be their starting PG, and the same goes for George Hill.

So then you're okay with Hill getting 10 minutes a game in the playoffs? That's what will happen if he's not playing the point.

xIndyFan
02-29-2012, 08:56 PM
I never really thought we were acquiring him to be a PG. Combo Guard who can play both positions off the bench. You see guys like this fill a combo guard type role off the bench all the time ie Jason Terry. Great 6th man material.

However, I don't think anyone wants Jason Terry to be their starting PG, and the same goes for George Hill.


So then you're okay with Hill getting 10 minutes a game in the playoffs? That's what will happen if he's not playing the point.

thought these were both good points.

the answer to the 2nd question is mostly yes, unless/until paul learns how to defend the 3.

CJ Jones
02-29-2012, 09:00 PM
thought these were both good points.

the answer to the 2nd question is mostly yes, unless/until paul learns how to defend the 3.

Hill's too good to play fewer then 20 minutes. Dahntay or AJ's minutes are going to have to be cut down.

And please... don't get me started on the Paul can't guard SFs MYTH.

xIndyFan
02-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Hill's too good to play fewer than 20 minutes. Dahntay or AJ's minutes are going to have to be cut down.

And please... don't get me started on the Paul can't guard SFs MYTH.

if paul can defend the 3, then everything is solved. a wing rotation of danny, paul and hill will be fine playoff rotation.

i hope you're right about the 'can't guard SFs myth.' i'd like to see more of that and more post work.

Infinite MAN_force
02-29-2012, 09:13 PM
So then you're okay with Hill getting 10 minutes a game in the playoffs? That's what will happen if he's not playing the point.

I don't have a problem with Hill playing some minutes at backup PG, I also think eventually Paul George should be getting pretty much all the minutes at the backup 3 spot.

If Paul George plays 16 minutes at the two, and 16 minutes at the three thats 32 minutes. It leaves 32 minutes at the backup 2 for George Hill, and 32 mins for Granger starting at the 3... and there is flexibility with those minutes. There are plenty of minutes to go around.

Thats a three man wing rotation I have zero problems with.

CJ Jones
02-29-2012, 09:33 PM
I guess the 3 man wing rotation could work. Although I don't like the idea of Hill playing more then 10-15 minuted at sg. Not a fan of an undersized back court.

I'd rather Hill play point and then give Dahntay more minutes at backup sg/sf.

spazzxb
02-29-2012, 10:20 PM
I never really thought we were acquiring him to be a PG. Combo Guard who can play both positions off the bench. You see guys like this fill a combo guard type role off the bench all the time ie Jason Terry. Great 6th man material.

However, I don't think anyone wants Jason Terry to be their starting PG, and the same goes for George Hill.

I thought he was going to be the guy who could guard players like Derrick Rose so Paul George wouldn't have to. I didn't watch much of him before he came here, but that's what I expected.

Eleazar
03-01-2012, 02:12 AM
When it comes to Collision, Price, Hill, George, and Granger it should be dependent on who gives you the best chance to win. Against Rose and the Bulls I would expect to see Hill play more PG in order to take advantage of George's and Hill's defense. Also I think if the other SG isn't too tall Price would do fine guarding a SG. When we aren't facing the likes of Rose Hill will see almost all of his minutes at SG. We have a very flexibile backcourt that can adjust to any situation.

daschysta
03-01-2012, 02:14 AM
I thought he was going to be the guy who could guard players like Derrick Rose so Paul George wouldn't have to. I didn't watch much of him before he came here, but that's what I expected.

PG is better than him at that. Hill can guard those kinds of guys but he doesn't have the same ability Paul has to frustrate them with unusual looks. Plus when PG has to do that, Hill can slide over and guard the SG so that DC doesn't have to.

Dr. Awesome
03-01-2012, 03:45 AM
Combo guards are awful. I hate that they are now a trend in the NBA.

McKeyFan
03-01-2012, 08:49 AM
I'll go with the sample size is too small.

Point guard is the most difficult position on the floor, and Hill needs more time to find chemistry with the first unit. He's just getting comfortable with chemistry among the subs.

And, if the sample size includes mostly Dahntay over Granger, it's just way beyond trying to reach a helpful conclusion.

sapposnap
03-01-2012, 12:32 PM
with all these trades going on, i have plan to get better at the sg position that will better everyteam.

pacers trade:
lou amundson
2nd draft pick

pacers get:
Monta Ellis

Gs trade:
monta ellis
2nd draft pick

Gs Get:
Chris Kaman

NO trade:
Chris Kaman

NO Get:
lou Amundson
NO & IND 2nd draft picks

TheDavisBrothers
03-01-2012, 02:18 PM
with all these trades going on, i have plan to get better at the sg position that will better everyteam.

pacers trade:
lou amundson
2nd draft pick

pacers get:
Monta Ellis

Gs trade:
monta ellis
2nd draft pick

Gs Get:
Chris Kaman

NO trade:
Chris Kaman

NO Get:
lou Amundson
NO & IND 2nd draft picks

We get Ellis and all we have to give is Lou and a 2 :laugh::laugh::laugh:

sapposnap
03-01-2012, 02:36 PM
well from what i heard NO want to b under the cap, while still getting some draft or young players. GS want a good C, and we have cap space to acquire a big salary contract. if anything we give GS some money