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View Full Version : Larry Bird: "We're going to try and strengthen this team"



habart30
02-23-2012, 12:50 PM
Conrad held yet another interview with Larry Bird today. Summing it up, Bird is pleased with the teams progress thus far, but he believes it could be better and will continue to look for ways to improve.
Check out the interview, linked below. It looks like we will be seeing some new faces on the squad before long guys..:happydanc

http://www.nba.com/pacers/caught_web_pacers_blog_larry_bird_midseason_2012_0 2_23.html

Heisenberg
02-23-2012, 12:54 PM
I'm going continue to do whatever I can to make this team better. If I see a player out there I think can make us better, I'm going to go ahead and make the move. It could be a trade, but it's probably going to be picking up somebody off another team just so they can get some money off (the salary cap). We've got a lot of calls in, talked to a lot of people and we're going to try to continue to strengthen this team.

So looking for money dump/facilitator type trades. Good.

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 12:59 PM
So looking for money dump/facilitator type trades. Good.
:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:

Can I just say I hope Bird stays for a very long time.. I always tried to support him even through the tough times and I am finally glad to see his patients is paying off for Pacer nation.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 01:01 PM
By "strengthen", I think Bird means to take more "toughness" pills.

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 01:02 PM
Does the team's success thus far have any impact on how you approach the trade deadline, in terms of your interest in pursuing more changes?
"I'm going continue to do whatever I can to make this team better. If I see a player out there I think can make us better, I'm going to go ahead and make the move. It could be a trade, but it's probably going to be picking up somebody off another team just so they can get some money off (the salary cap). We've got a lot of calls in, talked to a lot of people and we're going to try to continue to strengthen this team."

The highlighted part sounds to me like Barbosa or Calderon, Toronto needs the cap space to get Wilson Chandler.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 01:03 PM
So looking for money dump/facilitator type trades. Good.
Yep, exactly why I LOVE having SO MUCH Capspace. I'm glad that Bird didn't blow the whole load during the offseason.

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:06 PM
The highlighted part sounds to me like Barbosa or Calderon, Toronto needs the cap space to get Wilson Chandler.
I just have a hard time seeing those guys in a Pacer uniform and I think Bird is looking for a defensive player as well.

habart30
02-23-2012, 01:07 PM
The highlighted part sounds to me like Barbosa or Calderon, Toronto needs the cap space to get Wilson Chandler.

good point, and we could use either one of those guys

Peck
02-23-2012, 01:10 PM
I think that it certainly means that he is looking to add to the current roster and not trade away anyone.

Lance George
02-23-2012, 01:11 PM
The highlighted part sounds to me like Barbosa or Calderon, Toronto needs the cap space to get Wilson Chandler.

I don't think we'd take on Jose Calderon considering he's owed $10.6M next season. Barbosa, maybe, although I don't think he's really needed all that much.

Chris Kaman makes more sense to me. If New Orleans can't find a team willing to give them what they want, they may just salary dump him.

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 01:11 PM
I just have a hard time seeing those guys in a Pacer uniform and I think Bird is looking for a defensive player as well.

Calderon has been playing well lately so I'm pretty sure that Toronto's asking price is a bit high right now, maybe they are asking for DC and Larry want's to keep him? adding Calderon and keeping DC could kill two birds with one shot, you get the starting point guard and by moving DC to the bench you also get another scorer off the bench ala Jason Terry or Mo Williams.

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:12 PM
I wouldn't mind going after Ersan.. He's a FA after this year and the Bucks have too much money on other players.. What do you guys think?

TheDon
02-23-2012, 01:14 PM
good point, and we could use either one of those guys

We all know how much Danny loves Barbosa, don't those two always get into it whenever we play them to some degree or another? Calderon i'm kind of meh on. I'm hoping more along the lines of Kaman. If they're looking to shed some salary and dump something on us maybe we can make them send us a draft pick our way? :D wishful thinking but just taking on a contract even though we are getting a player it's eating into our flexibility financially and maybe we can be compensated.

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 01:14 PM
I think that it certainly means that he is looking to add to the current roster and not trade away anyone.

Anyone of importance I would think, I'm pretty sure he is open to trade Lou, Pendergraph, Lance or AJ if a deal comes.

Heisenberg
02-23-2012, 01:15 PM
I wouldn't mind going after Ersan.. He's a FA after this year and the Bucks have too much money on other players.. What do you guys think?
Wasn't there a Murphy to Milwaukee deal close (allegedly) a few years back but Larry wanted Ilyasova and the Bucks said no?

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:15 PM
Anyone of importance I would think, I'm pretty sure he is open to trade Lou, Pendergraph, Lance or AJ if a deal comes.
I think he's might trade the first round pick if its the right deal.

I am telling you Ersanity would be great in a Pacers uniform.

Eddie Gill
02-23-2012, 01:16 PM
Kaman is my first choice, but I have a hard time believing the league is just going to dump him here for cash.

Nuntius
02-23-2012, 01:17 PM
I think that it certainly means that he is looking to add to the current roster and not trade away anyone.

Yep. And that's the best part. We still have 2 roster spots left. Improve the team but there's no need to trade away anyone atm.

Nuntius
02-23-2012, 01:19 PM
I wouldn't mind going after Ersan.. He's a FA after this year and the Bucks have too much money on other players.. What do you guys think?

Ersan would be nice and the Bucks are very likely to move him but not in the deadline. My bet is that they will move him during the off-season.

Pacers24Colts12
02-23-2012, 01:22 PM
Stephen Jackson is wanting out of Milwaukee, maybe they could dump him here?

HickeyS2000
02-23-2012, 01:23 PM
Wilson Chandler or Chris Kaman please.

BringJackBack
02-23-2012, 01:24 PM
I'm looking at Raymond Felton or Chris Kaman honestly... Felton isn't valuable to Portland anymore and New Orleans just doesn't have interest in Kaman long term.

habart30
02-23-2012, 01:24 PM
We all know how much Danny loves Barbosa, don't those two always get into it whenever we play them to some degree or another? Calderon i'm kind of meh on. I'm hoping more along the lines of Kaman.

If we could land Barbosa for a decent price I think you take it. We need another veteran scorer off the bench. Barbosa would fit that role nicely. He would enable us to play Hill at the point while Barbosa runs the 2 with the second team. That's much more appealing to me than the combination of Price/Stephenson and Hill.

PG - Hill
SG- Barbosa
SF- Jones
PF- Hansbrough
C- Foster

That's one heck of a reserve unit!

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:24 PM
Ersan would be nice and the Bucks are very likely to move him but not in the deadline. My bet is that they will move him during the off-season.
He's a FA after this season and there won't be any incentive to do a sign and trade from Ersans stand point.


Wasn't there a Murphy to Milwaukee deal close (allegedly) a few years back but Larry wanted Ilyasova and the Bucks said no?
I don't recall this but I could see Bird eyeing Ilyasova before he broke out this year.

Eddie Gill
02-23-2012, 01:26 PM
If we could land Barbosa for a decent price I think you take it. We need another veteran scorer off the bench. Barbosa would fit that role nicely. He would enable us to play Hill at the point while Barbosa runs the 2 with the second team. That's much more appealing to me than the combination of Price/Stephenson and Hill.

PG - Hill
SG- Barbosa
SF- Jones
PF- Hansbrough
C- Foster

That's one heck of a reserve unit!


He was a pretty big part of those Suns playoff teams. I'd love to bring in a guy with that kind of experience.

graphic-er
02-23-2012, 01:27 PM
We just need a good shooter right now. Simple as that. No way the Pacers are able to make an upgrade at the point thru a salary dump. But we could get a good shooter.

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 01:29 PM
Damn I was looking at Calderon numbers and he had 15 assists and 1 TO in his last game, it was againts Detroit but still.


edit: Only scored 6 points at that game by the way.

Nuntius
02-23-2012, 01:29 PM
He's a FA after this season and there won't be any incentive to do a sign and trade from Ersans stand point.


I didn't know that. The impression that I got from Buck boards was that he was going to leave at the summer. A lot of them said that he wanted to return to Europe. Anyway, thanks for the info.

Unclebuck
02-23-2012, 01:30 PM
I don't see anything noteworthy in his comments. I would hope they are always looking to strengthen the team. That is his job and with the trade deadline exactly 3 weeks away, sure I would expect them to be speaking with every team in the NBA.

graphic-er
02-23-2012, 01:31 PM
I didn't know that. The impression that I got from Buck boards was that he was going to leave at the summer. A lot of them said that he wanted to return to Europe. Anyway, thanks for the info.

He misses the dead donkey smell.

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:31 PM
I don't see anything noteworthy in his comments. I would hope they are always looking to strengthen the team. That is his job and with the trade deadline exactly 3 weeks away, sure I would expect them to be speaking with every team in the NBA.
buzz kill

graphic-er
02-23-2012, 01:32 PM
I wonder what the chances are that Bird will be able to steal Jason Richardson way when they Deal Howard??

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:34 PM
What about Spencer Hawes? The sixers are at 66 mill and he would cost 4 million. His stock is also down with being injuried.

Also maybe Jodie Meeks.


Grant Hill would also be available.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 01:34 PM
The highlighted part sounds to me like Barbosa or Calderon, Toronto needs the cap space to get Wilson Chandler.
A question to the Cap-ologist ( where is count55 when you need him ?), if an opposing Team offers a 4 year / $30 mil contract that is heavily frontloaded ( say $10 mil in the 1st year and then $6.6 mil per year AFTERWARDS for each of the 3 remaining years )....can the Team owning the RFA rights match the $30 mil contract but structure it anyway that they want ( as in $6 mil per year over 5 years )?

My guess is that they can't restructure a Contract offer from another Team......and since the Nuggets are at $59 mil...just like what they did with Jarrett Jack and a "Capped out" Pacers ( who couldn't match ), I'd guess that the Raptors are going to heavily frontload a contract offer to Chandler in hopes that they will not match.

Correct me if I am wrong...but isn't Aaron Gray more of a defensive minded but somewhat decent Backup Center?

If he is....as "Backup Plan #152325", I'd consider 1st+Barbosa+Gray ( both are Expiring Contracts ) for Capspace+2nd round pick IF the Raptors TRULY wanted to clear Capspace.

habart30
02-23-2012, 01:37 PM
I wonder what the chances are that Bird will be able to steal Jason Richardson way when they Deal Howard??

I've tossed around the idea of J-Rich as well, but for what we'd have to pay him there are other veterans out there that would bring in what he has to offer for much less.. I think he is an older and much more expensive twin to PG24

Sparhawk
02-23-2012, 01:40 PM
How about using that cap space to obtain another first round pick for this year. ;)

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:41 PM
A question to the Cap-ologist ( where is count55 when you need him ?), if an opposing Team offers a 4 year / $30 mil contract that is heavily frontloaded ( say $10 mil in the 1st year and then $6.6 mil per year AFTERWARDS for each of the 3 remaining years )....can the Team owning the RFA rights match the $30 mil contract but structure it anyway that they want ( as in $6 mil per year over 5 years )?

My guess is that they can't restructure a Contract offer from another Team......and since the Nuggets are at $59 mil...just like what they did with Jarrett Jack and a "Capped out" Pacers ( who couldn't match ), I'd guess that the Raptors are going to heavily frontload a contract offer to Chandler in hopes that they will not match.

Correct me if I am wrong...but isn't Aaron Gray more of a defensive minded but somewhat decent Backup Center?

If he is....as "Backup Plan #152325", I'd consider 1st+Barbosa+Gray ( both are Expiring Contracts ) for Capspace+2nd round pick IF the Raptors TRULY wanted to clear Capspace.
There is a percentage of how much the front loaded contract can decrease per year and I don't believe they can restructure it. Milsap is an example from the Jazz and Trailblazers.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 01:42 PM
I wonder what the chances are that Bird will be able to steal Jason Richardson way when they Deal Howard??
Did you look at his contract?

2011-2012 - $5.395 mil
2012-2013 - $5.799 mil
2013-2014 - $6.204 mil
2014-2015 - $6.600 mil ( Player Option )

I love his scoring...but he'd be a bit expensive if you ask me.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 01:43 PM
There is a percentage of how much the front loaded contract can decrease per year and I don't believe they can restructure it. Milsap is an example from the Jazz and Trailblazers.
Thanks...so I'm guessing that the Raptors will try to frontload it as much as possible and hope that the Nuggets will blink.

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 01:45 PM
Thanks...so I'm guessing that the Raptors will try to frontload it as much as possible and hope that the Nuggets will blink.

The Raptors goal is to offer as much as they can to Chandler, I think is going to be around 9/10mil, so right now they need to find a team that's willing to take into either one of their players contract.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 01:45 PM
What about Spencer Hawes? The sixers are at 66 mill and he would cost 4 million. His stock is also down with being injuried.

Also maybe Jodie Meeks.


Grant Hill would also be available.
From my understanding, there are a lot of Teams OVER the Salary Cap but not over the LT....the Sixers are one such Team.....do they have a need to actually get under the Salary Cap?

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:45 PM
Thanks...so I'm guessing that the Raptors will try to frontload it as much as possible and hope that the Nuggets will blink.
I looked it up for you..



The Portland Trail Blazers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=por) elected Friday not to wait on trade possibilities, deciding instead to offer Utah Jazz (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=uth) restricted free agent Paul Millsap (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3015) a four-year contract worth $32 million, according to sources with knowledge of the Blazers' plans.

The Jazz, meanwhile, are expected to continue their push to trade Carlos Boozer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) in response, with the intent of creating sufficient distance from the luxury-tax line to enable Utah to match the Millsap offer.
The Blazers front-loaded the contract to make it difficult for Utah to match. They gave Millsap a $5.6 million signing bonus and agreed to pay him $4.7 million of his first-year, $6.3 million salary the day the contract becomes effective.

So a week from now, Millsap would receive $10.3 million. Add to that the $1.6 million that will be spread throughout next season and Millsap, who was paid just $797,581 last season, will be paid $11.9 million this year. The remaining $20.1 million will be spread over the final three years of the deal.

Peck
02-23-2012, 01:48 PM
I'll say again if there is any truth to the rumorst that you can get Anthony Marrow for cap space & or a low round pick/fringe player then by all means that is the way to go.

graphic-er
02-23-2012, 01:49 PM
Somebody mentioned Aaron Gray who would be a good back up, but you could also sign a guy like Fesenko who would do the same thing much cheaper.

BringJackBack
02-23-2012, 01:50 PM
Is there a possibility that we could take back Ed Davis as consolation if we took Barbosa off their hands be because of Barbosa'a contract?

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 01:52 PM
I'll say again if there is any truth to the rumorst that you can get Anthony Marrow for cap space & or a low round pick/fringe player then by all means that is the way to go.

Isn't him pretty much Brandon Rush?

Heisenberg
02-23-2012, 01:53 PM
Is there a possibility that we could take back Ed Davis as consolation if we took Barbosa off their hands be because of Barbosa'a contract?
Doubt it, not w/o some sort of future pick or something of legitimate value from us. Him potentially being buried behind Hansbrough again would be pretty funny though.


Isn't him pretty much Brandon Rush?
With none of the defense. Not that I'd complain about getting Morrow.

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:56 PM
From my understanding, there are a lot of Teams OVER the Salary Cap but not over the LT....the Sixers are one such Team.....do they have a need to actually get under the Salary Cap?
Outside of saving money no not really. The advantage is to get something in return in the end and Hawes showed enough to warrant a bigger contract next year. Also IMO Williams will probably opt out of his contract next year and the Sixers may end up pretty close to the LT if they try to resign both. Certainly a team will offer Hawes a bigger contract than they would like to pay for next year.

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 01:58 PM
With none of the defense. Not that I'd complain about getting Morrow.

I would not complain either but giving away a first round pick to bring a guy that's similar to Brandon Rush but without the D? That doesn't sound smart to me.

wintermute
02-23-2012, 01:58 PM
Wasn't there a Murphy to Milwaukee deal close (allegedly) a few years back but Larry wanted Ilyasova and the Bucks said no?

Ha, I remember that.

Yeah, Ersan would be a nice pickup. Not sure what it would take to get the Bucks to deal though - they need to keep him if they hope to make the playoffs (and sadly, the Bucks making the playoffs isn't out of the question yet).


Is there a possibility that we could take back Ed Davis as consolation if we took Barbosa off their hands be because of Barbosa'a contract?

Do the Raptors like Chandler that much? Probably not.

It does sound like we're getting offers and Bird's job is basically to pick up the best ones.

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 01:59 PM
Doubt it, not w/o some sort of future pick or something of legitimate value from us. Him potentially being buried behind Hansbrough again would be pretty funny though.


With none of the defense. Not that I'd complain about getting Morrow.
Morrow's owed 4 million after this year and I would like to keep that capspace for another FA.

wintermute
02-23-2012, 02:01 PM
Outside of saving money no not really. The advantage is to get something in return in the end and Hawes showed enough to warrant a bigger contract next year. Also IMO Williams will probably opt out of his contract next year and the Sixers may end up pretty close to the LT if they try to resign both. Certainly a team will offer Hawes a bigger contract than they would like to pay for next year.

The Sixers can amnesty Brand and if they do that they'll be a huge player in FA. They're not in need of salary dumping at the moment.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 02:02 PM
The Raptors goal is to offer as much as they can to Chandler, I think is going to be around 9/10mil, so right now they need to find a team that's willing to take into either one of their players contract.
Based off of Gamble1's response:

There is a percentage of how much the front loaded contract can decrease per year and I don't believe they can restructure it. Milsap is an example from the Jazz and Trailblazers.
Assuming that they clear Barbosa from their books.....that would leave them at $47.4 mil....roughly $45 mil if they also clear Gray....what would be a Frontloaded but reasonable Contract that they can offer Wilson?

I'm guessing that there is a limit as how much they can frontload an offer based off of how much they want to offer and how it can be structurally "frontloaded" and how far below the SalaryCap that they are under.

Nuntius
02-23-2012, 02:06 PM
Isn't him pretty much Brandon Rush?

Mediocre to bad defender, loves to shoot or create his shots (amazing in the first, bad in the second) the moment he gets the ball in his hands. So, no :p

PS: I may be wrong, though.

yoadknux
02-23-2012, 02:06 PM
Well, honestly, the only real way for us to get good value in my opinion is if somehow we get caught in a trade that involves a superstar (Like if Dwight goes to NJ and they need to shed Morrow/Farmar/Petro etc). Otherwise, I find it hard to believe that teams would just dump players for nothing, that includes Barbosa and Calderon. The dumped player must have a really bad contract for his production if they plan on dumping him, and if it is that bad then we wouldn't want the player. Both Barbosa and Calderon would cost us a pick.
Nobody from Philly is available for nothing. Especially not Hawes.
And there's no way Toronto will trade their lotto pick to get rid of expirings, especially when they can get some value for these expirings.

ejwallace
02-23-2012, 02:07 PM
I would like to see us go after DJ Augustine or even try to pry Kemba out of the Bobcats....I know they're not hurting on payroll, but I think either would be an upgrade to the 1....They both have relatively low contracts still, and would be a good upgrade. I would prefer Kemba, but let's face it....He was a first rounder last year, and I am sure they haven't given up on him yet.....

CableKC
02-23-2012, 02:07 PM
I'll say again if there is any truth to the rumorst that you can get Anthony Marrow for cap space & or a low round pick/fringe player then by all means that is the way to go.
I know that the addition of the 1st round pick came from the Morrow/Mayo Swap....but did the "inclusion" of the 1st round pick come from the Nets ( in an attempt to clear Morrow's 2012-2013 Salary from their books )?

or

Was the asking price by the Grizzlies for the Mayo was Morrow AND a 1st?

What I don't know is if the Nets went to the Grizzlies and offered a straight up swap of Mayo for Morrow...and then the Grizzlies ( who as been rumored to be asking for a 1st for Mayo ) countering with the Nets asking for a 1st along with Morrow to get rid of Mayo.

My guess is that it was the Grizzlies insistence that a 1st go along with Morrow is what killed any deal.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 02:17 PM
Well, honestly, the only real way for us to get good value in my opinion is if somehow we get caught in a trade that involves a superstar (Like if Dwight goes to NJ and they need to shed Morrow/Farmar/Petro etc). Otherwise, I find it hard to believe that teams would just dump players for nothing, that includes Barbosa and Calderon. The dumped player must have a really bad contract for his production if they plan on dumping him, and if it is that bad then we wouldn't want the player. Both Barbosa and Calderon would cost us a pick.
Nobody from Philly is available for nothing. Especially not Hawes.
And there's no way Toronto will trade their lotto pick to get rid of expirings, especially when they can get some value for these expirings.
If they are truly interested in going after Wilson Chandler while trying to frontload an offer while forcing the Nuggets to "blink", I can see them trying to get rid of Barbosa in an attempt to do that. As mentioned, clearing Barbosa would put them at $47 mil and in a position to offer a solid Contract offer to Chandler.

Sparhawk
02-23-2012, 02:17 PM
I would not complain either but giving away a first round pick to bring a guy that's similar to Brandon Rush but without the D? That doesn't sound smart to me.

Plus, for all the talk about him being a good shooter, his shooting hasn't been impressive. Meh. Seems awfully streaky to me.

I just want Marshon Brooks so badly. *sigh*

LetsTalkPacers
02-23-2012, 02:30 PM
id really like kaman. quit being stubborn stern and let us have him!

pacergod2
02-23-2012, 02:35 PM
I am sure Bird is talking to teams like the Lakers or Celtics or Spurs or Magic who are over the Luxury Tax. Those teams would give up first round picks just to avoid doubling their costs in LT. We pick up a player by using cap space and a roster spot that other teams don't have and are rewarded with a first. Imagine if we do this with two expirings and then end up with three first round picks from 21-30. That is a ton of trade value. We could trade all three to move into the lottery. We could also use those picks to make a deal this off-season. We could take four players in the draft for next year, which would fill our roster by only resigning our three restricted free agents. I think these roster spots and cap space have way more value to our franchise than we realize.

I bet we see a deal where we pick up a first for a salary dump and then I could see us making a trade to improve our roster. I bet we will have a fun trade deadline day.

TheDon
02-23-2012, 02:48 PM
Didn't the nets offer something absolutely insane like 4 or 6 future #1 draft picks to Portland for Gerald Wallace and helping facilitate a trade between them at the begining of the year to try and aquire Dwight? If the Pacers could get that kind of deal offered to them for someone like Granger who I think is a better player than Wallace and helping facilitate that whole trade for the Nets that would be something worth looking into.

A lot of things hinges upon something like that though, the Nets would have to be willing to go all in, in a last-ditch effort attempt to get Dwight

the magic would actually have to be willing to trade dwight as well.

Since86
02-23-2012, 02:52 PM
Plus, for all the talk about him being a good shooter, his shooting hasn't been impressive. Meh. Seems awfully streaky to me.

I just want Marshon Brooks so badly. *sigh*

Morrow isn't impressive to you? He's a career 43.9% 3pt shooter. To put that in persective, if he retired right now, he's be 4th all time as far as percentages go.

Kerr, Hubert Davis, and Stephen Curry being the three above him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg3_pct_career.html

_The_Future_
02-23-2012, 03:01 PM
I would like to see us go after DJ Augustine or even try to pry Kemba out of the Bobcats....I know they're not hurting on payroll, but I think either would be an upgrade to the 1....They both have relatively low contracts still, and would be a good upgrade. I would prefer Kemba, but let's face it....He was a first rounder last year, and I am sure they haven't given up on him yet.....

:laugh:

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 03:03 PM
I don't know but I don't think I'll be too happy if they trade our pick for Morrow, we trade Rush for Lou to GS and then we turn around and try to get a similar player to Rush who makes more than Rush plus giving up a first round pick for him? Stupid deal if you ask me.

Since86
02-23-2012, 03:28 PM
I really don't think trading the first round pick for Morrow is the option. The Pacers don't have to send anything out in order to take on the additional salary. NJ would get a TE.

mrknowname
02-23-2012, 03:28 PM
wouldn't mind cole aldrich or robin lopez as back up centers. i also think calderon would be an upgrade over collison

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 03:33 PM
I really don't think trading the first round pick for Morrow is the option. The Pacers don't have to send anything out in order to take on the additional salary. NJ would get a TE.

The rumor is that NJ wants another pick for Howard, trading Morrow for nothing doesn't do anything for them.

KrunkMcGrunk
02-23-2012, 03:38 PM
I would like to see us go after DJ Augustine or even try to pry Kemba out of the Bobcats....I know they're not hurting on payroll, but I think either would be an upgrade to the 1....They both have relatively low contracts still, and would be a good upgrade. I would prefer Kemba, but let's face it....He was a first rounder last year, and I am sure they haven't given up on him yet.....

Maybe we could get Derrick Rose from Chicago while we're at it!

LetsTalkPacers
02-23-2012, 03:50 PM
wouldn't mind cole aldrich or robin lopez as back up centers. i also think calderon would be an upgrade over collison
Id be happy with Lopez

Since86
02-23-2012, 03:53 PM
The rumor is that NJ wants another pick for Howard, trading Morrow for nothing doesn't do anything for them.

They wouldn't just be trading Morrow for nothing though. They'd be getting a TE that can be used to take on more salary, like taking Hedo along with Howard.

They want another draft pick probably to replace the one they had to send out, not send out two. I'm not even sure they can do that anymore, can they? I know the new rules is you can't send out two in consecutive years, but can you send out two in the same year? I doubt that's been asked and answered yet.

While it would certainly help NJ, like you've already said, it wouldn't be that good of a move by the Pacers.

I don't see Larry making a bad deal, just to do something. I think he'd rather finish the season with the roster as is, or look to make another trade, if it just didn't make sense. They didn't get in this position by being impatient.

Derek2k3
02-23-2012, 03:56 PM
Stephen Jackson is wanting out of Milwaukee, maybe they could dump him here?

I just threw up a little. That's not a funny joke.


Did you look at his contract?

2011-2012 - $5.395 mil
2012-2013 - $5.799 mil
2013-2014 - $6.204 mil
2014-2015 - $6.600 mil ( Player Option )

I love his scoring...but he'd be a bit expensive if you ask me.

Regarding Richardson, he has been really off. A step slow, not great conditioning, really hasn't performed well at all.


I'll say again if there is any truth to the rumorst that you can get Anthony Marrow for cap space & or a low round pick/fringe player then by all means that is the way to go.

I'd agree. A deadeye shooter that could get minutes off the bench (12-15mpg I would think)


I would like to see us go after DJ Augustine or even try to pry Kemba out of the Bobcats....I know they're not hurting on payroll, but I think either would be an upgrade to the 1....They both have relatively low contracts still, and would be a good upgrade. I would prefer Kemba, but let's face it....He was a first rounder last year, and I am sure they haven't given up on him yet.....

Not trying to be a dbag, but are you kidding? I'd imagine that DJ/Kemba are the only players you COULDN'T get.

Justin Tyme
02-23-2012, 03:59 PM
I like Ilyasova, but where is he going to play? If he plays PF, you already have West and Hansbro. I don't see enuff minutes at SF for him either. I just don't see a place for him unless someone, Hansbro?, is traded to get him minutes.

Barbosa and Morrow are small SG like Hill and Stephenson. There is already a problem now with Hill back how to distribute the minutes to the guards. He's had 20 double figure games out of 35 games this season shooting 42% and 40%. He's only 4 mil ,and he's an expiring next season.

I'd take a look at Koufos as b/u 5. You can't count on Foster, and Lou isn't a true 7' Center. The 5 spot could use some strength. Give them the 015 2nd from GS and cap for Koufos.

I'm not sure how to strengthen the bench other than a b/u Center.

I do like the idea of picking up another 1st.

Wylder1324
02-23-2012, 04:01 PM
Who the hell decided Morrow was similar to Rush ? Other than the fact that they are both good 3 pt shooters at the SG position....I fail to see any similarities. That would be like saying Troy Murphy & Dirk are similar players just because they play the same position and shoot the 3 at a similar %.......let me help....they aren't similar at all.

I wouldn't give a 1st rounded for Morrow...but lets not act like he wouldn't help our 2nd unit in the scoring department. If the Nets were willing to give him up as merely a salary dump I think I would have to seriously consider it if I were calling the shots.

PacerPenguins
02-23-2012, 04:05 PM
if we get kaman..... i believe this team has a good chance of getting to the finals.... I'm being serious

Pacersalltheway10
02-23-2012, 04:11 PM
I'm looking at Raymond Felton or Chris Kaman honestly... Felton isn't valuable to Portland anymore and New Orleans just doesn't have interest in Kaman long term.

Isn't Felton out of shape?

Psyren
02-23-2012, 04:15 PM
if we get kaman..... i believe this team has a good chance of getting to the finals.... I'm being serious

I don't believe that for a second.

This team is not going to the finals until we get an actual point guard.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 04:17 PM
The rumor is that NJ wants another pick for Howard, trading Morrow for nothing doesn't do anything for them.
I thought that they wanted to clear Morrow's salary from the books so that they can have more space to sign a FA to add next to DWill and Dwight?

Ace E.Anderson
02-23-2012, 04:31 PM
I don't believe that for a second.

This team is not going to the finals until we get a good point guard.

FIXED!

But even then, we wouldn't be able to get past Miami. The only way we'd ever beat the heat in a 7 game series if we made major changes. They are light years ahead with the way they are playing right now

Ace E.Anderson
02-23-2012, 04:37 PM
And who compared B Rush to Morrow? Two COMPLETELY different players. Rush is a defensive player with 3-pt range. Morrow is a 3-pt shooter who has the ability to average well over dbl figures.

One would be best served playing with a post presence (Rush) while the other would thrive in a 6th man, scoring type of role (Morrow)

They couldn't possibly be any more different

Strummer
02-23-2012, 04:38 PM
I don't see anything noteworthy in his comments. I would hope they are always looking to strengthen the team. That is his job and with the trade deadline exactly 3 weeks away, sure I would expect them to be speaking with every team in the NBA.

What's noteworthy is this bit.


It could be a trade, but it's probably going to be picking up somebody off another team just so they can get some money off (the salary cap).

It tells me he's not looking to upgrade the core. He's hoping to pick up a player without sending anyone out. Or pick up a draft pick at the cost of absorbing a contract.

Those are the kinds of trades we've seen teams under the cap make the past few years. I was always envious. I'm glad to see Bird is looking for those opportunities. And it made me feel good to "hear" him say it.

McKeyFan
02-23-2012, 04:48 PM
if we get kaman..... i believe this team has a good chance of getting to the finals.... I'm being serious

He plays point guard?

yoadknux
02-23-2012, 04:48 PM
I don't believe that for a second.

This team is not going to the finals until we get an actual point guard.
I pretty much agree.
Besides, I doubt there's any team in the league who's a "Chris Kaman away" from making the finals. To get to the finals we don't need to optimize our bench, we need to optimize our starters. Granger, West, and Hibbert are all above-average starters for their position, George isn't bad and is still developing, but Collison is a defensive liability, and doesn't really have great range or court vision. There are so many talented point guards in the league, I can think of something like 10-15 "star" point guards, and we must do our best to get one without trading a core piece.

Gamble1
02-23-2012, 05:10 PM
The Sixers can amnesty Brand and if they do that they'll be a huge player in FA. They're not in need of salary dumping at the moment.
I don't think they can be huge players in FA. Amnesty Brand and you still have to count 4.5 of that on books and which only saves you 13.5. That puts them at 51.5 without rookie contracts and resigning Williams. Either way they could end up resigning all of them or none of them but after Hawes getting hurt I doubt they offer him what other teams will.

RLeWorm
02-23-2012, 05:26 PM
If Bird is serious about winning, we need to upgrade the core. A bench wont mean anything if we are already getting blown out at the beginning of the game. Our starting 5 seems to struggle coming out of the gate. In the playoffs we wont get away with trying to make comebacks every game

wintermute
02-23-2012, 05:39 PM
I don't think they can be huge players in FA. Amnesty Brand and you still have to count 4.5 of that on books and which only saves you 13.5. That puts them at 51.5 without rookie contracts and resigning Williams. Either way they could end up resigning all of them or none of them but after Hawes getting hurt I doubt they offer him what other teams will.

Um, where are you getting the bolded bit? Amnesty wipes off the entire salary off the cap.

A quick check at Sham says that without Brand, Philly will have Iggy ($14.7m), Thad Young ($8m), Turner ($5.3m), Holiday ($2.7m), Vucevic ($1.7m), Brackins ($1.5m), Meeks ($1.1m) and Lavoy Allen ($0.9m) - that's around $36m, which leaves plenty of cap space. They can choose to use it to retain both Lou Williams and Hawes (and probably have some left over), or they can go after some other players.

graphic-er
02-23-2012, 05:42 PM
I expect Philly to make a run at Howard in the offseason.

RLeWorm
02-23-2012, 05:49 PM
I expect Philly to make a run at Howard in the offseason.

2 bad they won't come close to getting him

BringJackBack
02-23-2012, 06:13 PM
Isn't Felton out of shape?

He could be. But an intense, very good defender with court vision that is out of shape is always better than an inconsistent, terrible defender with below average court vision that is in great shape.

Tom White
02-23-2012, 06:28 PM
The highlighted part sounds to me like Barbosa or Calderon, Toronto needs the cap space to get Wilson Chandler.

Why would the Pacers facilitate Toronto getting Chandler by taking those two guys. Not impressed with either one. I think that is the type of trade that the team wants to avoid. It doesn't bring back anything they don't already have, or bring anyone more talented than those already on the roster.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 06:32 PM
Why would the Pacers facilitate Toronto getting Chandler by taking those two guys. Not impressed with either one. I think that is the type of trade that the team wants to avoid. It doesn't bring back anything they don't already have, or bring anyone more talented than those already on the roster.
I'd facilitate deals only if it came with a 1st round pick. I wouldn't do it just to get those Players ( well, maybe Aaron Gray as a backup Center ).

vnzla81
02-23-2012, 06:35 PM
Why would the Pacers facilitate Toronto getting Chandler by taking those two guys. Not impressed with either one. I think that is the type of trade that the team wants to avoid. It doesn't bring back anything they don't already have, or bring anyone more talented than those already on the roster.

If you don't think Calderon is more talented thant DC I don't know what to tell you.

Pacer Fan
02-23-2012, 06:38 PM
I was driving down the road today and a Bird blew 2 loads in 1 shot all over my windshield and it's not in season yet.

:laugh:

90'sNBARocked
02-23-2012, 06:40 PM
According to the Raptors beat reporters Coangelo LOVES Barbosa, and the reporter has repeatedly said he will not trade him, for what its worth

I am thinking small term: OJ Mayo, Anthony Marrow,

Medium: J Rich if they trade Howard and rebuild

Big: Rondo if Boston continues to slide and decides to rebuild.

Biggest Dream: Derron Williams , if Howard is traded somewhere D Will CANT go to

Last note: Risk / Reward : Michael Beasley. obviuosly aware of the reputation , but if we got him for next to nothing his scoring off the bench could be lethal

Tom White
02-23-2012, 06:40 PM
If you don't think Calderon is more talented thant DC I don't know what to tell you.

Frankly, I've never been that impressed with him. Honestly, I would rather the team restrain from making deals that only improve the team by a small margin. If they want to become a team that gets out of the first round on a regular basis, they are going to have to be more bold with their moves. And yes, that likely means dealing a starter + a good bench player + plus a pick. They either need go big or stay home.

90'sNBARocked
02-23-2012, 06:44 PM
Frankly, I've never been that impressed with him.

Apparently you are not the only one my friend

Word is they have been trying desperately to trade Calderon for 3 years with no takers

People get caught up in his stats but TJ Ford was the last PG to put the Raptors in the playoffs

He has great court vision , decent shooting, but horrific defense, yes way worse than DC in my opinion, and his contract is abusive

CableKC
02-23-2012, 06:45 PM
Here's a list of the Teams that are over the LT and their Expiring Contracts:

Hawks - $72.8 mil

- Hinrich ( $8.1 mil )
- TMac ( $1.325 mil )
- VladRad ( $1.325 mil )
- Jason Collins ( $1.325 mil )
- Stackhouse ( $1.325 mil )
- Willie Green ( $1.325 mil )
- Jannero Pargo ( $1.325 mil )
- Ivan Johnson ( $473k )
- Damipier ( $213k )

Celtics - $79.5 mil

- Garnett ( $21.2 mil )
- Ray Allen ( $10 mil )
- JONeal ( $6.2 mil )
- Brandon Bass ( $4.25 mil w/Team Option in 2012-2013 )
- Chris Wilcox ( $3 mil )
- Keyon Dooling ( $2.25 mil )
- Marquis Daniels ( $1.22 mil )
- Sasha Pavolic ( $1.22 mil )
- Pietrus ( $1.22 mil )
- Greg Stiemsma ( $1.22 mil )

Mavs - $73.995 mil

- Jason Terry ( $10.658 mil )
- Jason Kidd ( $8.610 mil )
- Brian Cardinal ( $1.325 mil )
- Delonte West ( $1.146 mil )
- Brandon Wright ( $885k w/Non-Guaranteed Contract in 2012-2013 )
- Sean Williams ( $885k w/Non-Guaranteed Contract in 2012-2013 )
- Ian Mahimi ( $885k )
- Yi Jianlian ( $827k )

Lakers - $88.1 mil

- Barnes ( $1.906 mil )
- Murphy ( $1.325 mil )
- Kapono ( $1.223 mil )
- Devin EBanks ( $762k )
- Darius Morris ( $473k )
- Andrew Goudelock ( $473k )

Heat - $77.6 mil

- Eddie House ( $1,325 mil )
- Juwan Howard ( $1,325 mil )
- Eddy Curry ( $1,229 mil )
- Dexter Pittman ( $762k w/Non-Guaranteed Contract in 2012-2013 )

I'm not entirely thrilled. I'm guessing the real Impact Players ( like Terry, Kidd, KG or Allen ) won't be had.....but I'm guessing that we can find a "rental" in the "leftovers" that could fit our short term needs while netting us an additional 1st round pick. Too bad JONeal is just a shell of himself and can't stay on the court.

Tom White
02-23-2012, 06:50 PM
Apparently you are not the only one my friend

Word is they have been trying desperately to trade Calderon for 3 years with no takers

People get caught up in his stats but TJ Ford was the last PG to put the Raptors in the playoffs

He has great court vision , decent shooting, but horrific defense, yes way worse than DC in my opinion, and his contract is abusive

I'll combine my thoughts in my previous posts with this thought. Did anyone see the thread about the Pacers having the second worst attendance? If a move is to be made, it not only needs to be one that improves the team by a great deal, but also needs to be a move that wakes up the fan base. Something that makes the average fan go "Whoa, they really are serious about this.".

I know those type of trades are few and far between, but at what point has the team been in better position to go after that type of trade. Not in a long, long time.

90'sNBARocked
02-23-2012, 06:52 PM
I'll combine my thoughts in my previous posts with this thought. Did anyone see the thread about the Pacers having the second worst attendance? If a move is to be made, it not only needs to be one that improves the team by a great deal, but also needs to be a move that wakes up the fan base. Something that makes the average fan go "Whoa, they really are serious about this.".

I know those type of trades are few and far between, but at what point has the team been in better position to go after that type of trade. Not in a long, long time.

Good point

CableKC
02-23-2012, 06:53 PM
I was driving down the road today and a Bird blew 2 loads in 1 shot all over my windshield and it's not in season yet.

:laugh:
Are you suggesting that this could be an sign that Bird would pull of some 2 for 1 deal before the trade deadline?

ejwallace
02-23-2012, 06:54 PM
Not trying to be a dbag, but are you kidding? I'd imagine that DJ/Kemba are the only players you COULDN'T get.

My thought process behind this is that Kemba is too good to be a backup, while Augustin is too good to become a backup. The Bobcats are obviously going to have one of the worst records in the NBA this season, and with Augustin only having another year on his contract, I can't see the Bobcats committing to him and rebuilding around him. I also can't see him resigning with Charlotte if they can't guarantee him the starting spot, and some better supporting players.

With Kemba poised to take the starting position, he is who they will build around, so why not see what you can get for Augustin? He would be an attractive asset to many teams since he has another year on his contract at a very reasonable price. By shopping him right now, they won't have to worry about watching him walk in free agency. If you group him and a couple of their other short term contracts, such as Diop or Diaw, they could help facilitate some multi team trades while possibly getting some better long term contracts, and some pieces to build around Kemba.

I just see keeping both Augustin and Walker on the payroll is going to work against the Bobcats in the long run.

Trophy
02-23-2012, 06:58 PM
I've been thinking Bird might try and go after Mayo again. He clearly likes his game. We can definitely use a SG like Mayo to add more depth and have someone who can create shots.

I know if his name is linked to us for a third time, I wouldn't get too hyped up over it or believe it until I actually saw OJ suiting up for a game in a Pacers uniform.

xIndyFan
02-23-2012, 07:07 PM
If you don't think Calderon is more talented thant DC I don't know what to tell you.

not trying to start a fight. but Calderon doesn't seem more talented, but just different. plus doesn't Calderon use up a bazillon dollars of cap space. that kind of trade seems more like change for the sake of change.

BringJackBack
02-23-2012, 07:08 PM
Tracy McGrady is uneasy with his role on the Hawks, and he thinks he should play over Marvin Williams. Quite frankly he should, but Marvin's youth and horrific contract helps him gain playing time while Tracy isn't in the team's long term plans...

Since T-Mac's role has him uneasy with the team, he could be a detriment to chemistry. He would also help shed off at least a little salary while ATL is over the tax. If we could get him for free or minimal value, would we jump on that?

He would help with offensive flow as he is a good passer and versatile offensive player. He is capable of having a big night and he is a consistent guy who could teach Paul George and Danny Granger a thing or two. If we can't get Anthony Morrow or Courtney Lee, by all means he could help us with depth. There's a difference between playing behind Marvin Williams and playing behind Danny Granger.

Another angle we could go here is by ridding them of their tax problem by taking contracts off of their hands, while getting picks back. They are hovering around 3 million over the tax and we could take on say Tracy and either Kirk Hinrich (Who they might not give away because dumping him alone would get rid of their tax issue, but would be a great fit for us) or one or two of Jason Collins, Vlad Rad, Willie Green (Who would be a nice piece for us, but we wouldn't have the minutes), or Ivan Johnson... AND we could get a pick from them for helping them out so dearly.

A potential option at least.

Pacerized
02-23-2012, 07:17 PM
I don't think we'd take on Jose Calderon considering he's owed $10.6M next season. Barbosa, maybe, although I don't think he's really needed all that much.

Chris Kaman makes more sense to me. If New Orleans can't find a team willing to give them what they want, they may just salary dump him.

I thought Kaman as well. If the league doesn't find a team stupid enough to give up a 1st. round pick for a player that has the right to walk after 25 games, then a 2cd. and Lou would be much better then buying Kaman out and getting nothing.
Of course Bird might just be thinking of picking Kaman up off waivers.

Pacer Fan
02-23-2012, 07:19 PM
I'm glad that Bird didn't blow the whole load during the offseason.


adding Calderon and keeping DC could kill two birds with one shot


Are you suggesting that this could be an sign that Bird would pull of some 2 for 1 deal before the trade deadline?

No, I was reading and I started laughing at the wording being used (Dump, front load, load , ect.) and it made me thank of what happened to me today...(I was driving down the road today and a Bird blew 2 loads in 1 shot all over my windshield and it's not in season yet.) So I wanted to share it.
I was just having a moment! :)

CableKC
02-23-2012, 07:22 PM
No, I was reading and I started laughing at the wording being used (Dump, front load, load , ect.) and it made me thank of what happened to me today...(I was driving down the road today and a Bird blew 2 loads in 1 shot all over my windshield and it's not in season yet.) So I wanted to share it.
I was just having a moment! :)
At the cost of cleaning your windshield....I think that the universe is trying to tell you that Bird will pull off some "2fer1" deal before the trade deadline.

Pacer Fan
02-23-2012, 07:26 PM
At the cost of cleaning your windshield....I think that the universe is trying to tell you that Bird will pull off some "2fer1" deal before the trade deadline.

So, you say to me...Here's ur Sign! :laugh:

D-BONE
02-23-2012, 07:37 PM
Felton, Ed Davis, Barbosa, Morrow all sound good. Don't know if any are realistic.

On the DC - Calderon thing, well, Calderon is a better distributor, but as bad or worse on defense. Scoring is probably about a wash. So...meh.

Anyway, I'd have no problem with Barbosa and Hill off the bench. Once you get up against opponent's second unit, the size piece in the backcourt becomes much less important. I think that combo is about the best 2nd unit backcourt you'll find in the league.

BlueNGold
02-23-2012, 07:39 PM
Maybe we need to draft a PG out of Harvard.

McKeyFan
02-23-2012, 07:47 PM
Here's a list of the Teams that are over the LT and their Expiring Contracts:

Hawks - $72.8 mil

- Hinrich ( $8.1 mil )
- TMac ( $1.325 mil )
- VladRad ( $1.325 mil )
- Jason Collins ( $1.325 mil )
- Stackhouse ( $1.325 mil )
- Willie Green ( $1.325 mil )
- Jannero Pargo ( $1.325 mil )
- Ivan Johnson ( $473k )
- Damipier ( $213k )

Celtics - $79.5 mil

- Garnett ( $21.2 mil )
- Ray Allen ( $10 mil )
- JONeal ( $6.2 mil )
- Brandon Bass ( $4.25 mil w/Team Option in 2012-2013 )
- Chris Wilcox ( $3 mil )
- Keyon Dooling ( $2.25 mil )
- Marquis Daniels ( $1.22 mil )
- Sasha Pavolic ( $1.22 mil )
- Pietrus ( $1.22 mil )
- Greg Stiemsma ( $1.22 mil )

Mavs - $73.995 mil

- Jason Terry ( $10.658 mil )
- Jason Kidd ( $8.610 mil )
- Brian Cardinal ( $1.325 mil )
- Delonte West ( $1.146 mil )
- Brandon Wright ( $885k w/Non-Guaranteed Contract in 2012-2013 )
- Sean Williams ( $885k w/Non-Guaranteed Contract in 2012-2013 )
- Ian Mahimi ( $885k )
- Yi Jianlian ( $827k )

Lakers - $88.1 mil

- Barnes ( $1.906 mil )
- Murphy ( $1.325 mil )
- Kapono ( $1.223 mil )
- Devin EBanks ( $762k )
- Darius Morris ( $473k )
- Andrew Goudelock ( $473k )

Heat - $77.6 mil

- Eddie House ( $1,325 mil )
- Juwan Howard ( $1,325 mil )
- Eddy Curry ( $1,229 mil )
- Dexter Pittman ( $762k w/Non-Guaranteed Contract in 2012-2013 )

I'm not entirely thrilled. I'm guessing the real Impact Players ( like Terry, Kidd, KG or Allen ) won't be had.....but I'm guessing that we can find a "rental" in the "leftovers" that could fit our short term needs while netting us an additional 1st round pick. Too bad JONeal is just a shell of himself and can't stay on the court.
How's Kenyon Dooling's defense? Probably not good enough to replace Collison but maybe a decent second stringer?

Pacer Fan
02-23-2012, 07:51 PM
how bout:
Okur and Brooks for nothing!

Okur and Brooks for a 1st

Humphries and Brooks for Hans and 1st

AusPACER
02-23-2012, 07:52 PM
How's Kenyon Dooling's defense? Probably not good enough to replace Collison but maybe a decent second stringer?

That list has Hinrich written all over it to me if he is somehow available.

Pacer Fan
02-23-2012, 07:59 PM
That list has Hinrich written all over it to me if he is somehow available.

:puke:

Justin Tyme
02-23-2012, 08:02 PM
That list has Hinrich written all over it to me if he is somehow available.


Don't see it. Another small combo guard.

Is T-Mac any good as a SF?

ilive4sports
02-23-2012, 08:10 PM
Don't see it. Another small combo guard.

Is T-Mac any good as a SF?

i've never viewed Hinrich as a combo guard. Hasn't he played PG his whole career?

Sparhawk
02-23-2012, 08:27 PM
how bout:
Okur and Brooks for nothing!

Okur and Brooks for a 1st

Humphries and Brooks for Hans and 1st

T-Mac would be a guy I'd want.

Any trade that involves us getting MarShon, then hell yes, even if it meant taking on Okur's expiring.

Okur + Brooks for Amund, Lance, 1st

If we get Brooks, then we don't have much need for Lance (he's not a point)

Pacer Fan
02-23-2012, 08:33 PM
T-Mac would be a guy I'd want.

Any trade that involves us getting MarShon, then hell yes, even if it meant taking on Okur's expiring.

Okur + Brooks for Amund, Lance, 1st

If we get Brooks, then we don't have much need for Lance (he's not a point)

Yea, I'd like to see T-Mac, but Atlanta is in the playoffs as of right now and I don't see them letting him go...maybe by taking Hinrich, but Pacers can do better then that with the 14+mil.

CableKC
02-23-2012, 08:48 PM
So, you say to me...Here's ur Sign! :laugh:
Yeah...I'm guessing the universe could have been less subtle than having a bird poop on your car...but you got the message.

pacer4ever
02-23-2012, 09:51 PM
i've never viewed Hinrich as a combo guard. Hasn't he played PG his whole career?

He is a pg but he played the SG a lot in Chicago and for the Wizards because he was very good defensively at the SG and they had a guy named Drose and John Wall who they needed to play pg lol. He can play both but he is a pretty pure pg. Kind of like Luke Ridnour playing SG this year a lot because he fits good with Rubio. Rubio guards the SG though. But Kirk played SG because he could shoot and you needed a shooter next to Drose when he had no jumper.

TheDavisBrothers
02-23-2012, 09:52 PM
i've never viewed Hinrich as a combo guard. Hasn't he played PG his whole career?

He was a starting SG with Rose

PR07
02-23-2012, 11:18 PM
Hawks are in the playoffs, so I don't see them being sellers.

Kaman's the most realistic and probably makes the most sense, but here's hoping for Steve Nash :)

Maybe Danny Ainge will throw Larry a bone and trade us Garnett or Allen for the stretch run?

PGisthefuture
02-23-2012, 11:31 PM
Hawks are in the playoffs, so I don't see them being sellers.

Kaman's the most realistic and probably makes the most sense, but here's hoping for Steve Nash :)

Maybe Danny Ainge will throw Larry a bone and trade us Garnett or Allen for the stretch run?

I'll take Allen. The Celtics obviously are done contending for a title with the current team. I really don't like Garnett.

habart30
02-24-2012, 12:59 AM
Maybe we need to draft a PG out of Harvard.

don't forget we are stationed in Indianapolis...not NYC That is the biggest factor in all the Jeremy Lin hype. Honestly look at guys like Nikola Pekovic from MIN, or Ersan Ilyasova from MIL. Those guys have been just as good (if not better) out of no where, but are also from no name teams. Get the drift..??

Marlin
02-24-2012, 04:30 AM
Can't remember but..when is the trade deadline this year?

wintermute
02-24-2012, 05:09 AM
15th March

TheDavisBrothers
02-24-2012, 05:15 AM
don't forget we are stationed in Indianapolis...not NYC That is the biggest factor in all the Jeremy Lin hype. Honestly look at guys like Nikola Pekovic from MIN, or Ersan Ilyasova from MIL. Those guys have been just as good (if not better) out of no where, but are also from no name teams. Get the drift..??

Both those guys were drafted and they have not been as good and not even close to better then Lin, so this post is asinine
also their teams have not gone on big winning streaks since they starting playing good
on top of that Ilyasova has averaged double digit points per game before, so it's not like he's a nobody

Tom White
02-24-2012, 09:08 AM
15th March

Beware the Ides of March.

Although, back in the day, they had a great song titled Vehicle.

BlueNGold
02-24-2012, 10:09 PM
don't forget we are stationed in Indianapolis...not NYC That is the biggest factor in all the Jeremy Lin hype. Honestly look at guys like Nikola Pekovic from MIN, or Ersan Ilyasova from MIL. Those guys have been just as good (if not better) out of no where, but are also from no name teams. Get the drift..??

Those guys didn't blow up quite as abruptly. They have been surprises, but they also got some minutes before their rise. Lin sat on the bench about the whole year...then shazam. He pulls off a solid string of great games, only to see his numbers fall against Miami because Carmello had to show he was the man to LeBron and DWade.

With that said, I would love to have any of those guys on the Pacers. I'd probably prefer Pekovic because he will be a beast in the paint for a long time. But Ersan grabbed 25 boards and scored 29 points in a single game. Wow

Edit: Since Mello's return, the Knicks are 1-2. Of course his FG attempts have risen each game and he just launched 20 against Miami dominating the action. The good news for the Pacers is that Mello is back on the floor. We should now be favored to beat the Knicks. Amare doesn't hurt his team the same way...

xIndyFan
02-24-2012, 10:54 PM
. . . Amare doesn't hurt his team the same way...

i know most of your post was about anthony, but this caught my eye. is is just me, or does amare not look like amare any more. just ordinary quickness instead of that unnatural quickness he used to have.

vnzla81
02-24-2012, 10:57 PM
i know most of your post was about anthony, but this caught my eye. is is just me, or does amare not look like amare any more. just ordinary quickness instead of that unnatural quickness he used to have.

Yep he lost an step, he doesn't jump as high as he used to.

BlueNGold
02-24-2012, 11:09 PM
i know most of your post was about anthony, but this caught my eye. is is just me, or does amare not look like amare any more. just ordinary quickness instead of that unnatural quickness he used to have.

Amare has not been aging gracefully. His game is predicated on a lot of physical activity and he's no longer a spring chicken. Still, he doesn't hurt you.

xIndyFan
02-24-2012, 11:25 PM
Amare has not been aging gracefully. His game is predicated on a lot of physical activity and he's no longer a spring chicken. Still, he doesn't hurt you.

not so sure that he doesn't hurt you. he was never a good defender. if he cannot put the fear of God into you offensively, then he is just a guy with a decent midrange game.

jeffg-body
02-25-2012, 01:05 AM
Hawks are in the playoffs, so I don't see them being sellers.

Kaman's the most realistic and probably makes the most sense, but here's hoping for Steve Nash :)

Maybe Danny Ainge will throw Larry a bone and trade us Garnett or Allen for the stretch run?

I would love to see Ray Allen in a Pacer's uni, but not Garnett, he seems like a true douchebag to me.

CableKC
02-25-2012, 01:08 AM
I thought I'd post this here since it relates to what Bird was saying about looking for opportunities.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/chris_mannix/02/23/diwght.howard.nets/index.html?eref=writers


NEWARK, N.J. -- The throng of reporters stretched three, four deep, packing the tight space around Dwight Howard's corner locker. Five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes passed, the group patiently waiting as Howard goofed with teammates and rattled off sophomoric jokes.

"Shut up and talk to the media, Dwight," Jameer Nelson barked in his direction.

"I've only got one thing to say," Howard said, his voice rising into song. "Leave me alone."

No chance. This was the first and only time the full complement of Nets media would get a crack at Howard, to gauge his feelings on moving north next season and saving a flagging franchise. The team, predictably, rolled out the red carpet, strategically positioning glossy placards of the Barclays Center in Howard's path coming off the bus and quickly removing them once he walked by. Howard masks salted the Prudential Center and signs imploring him to change teams popped up periodically all around the building.

"It's a humbling experience," Howard said of all the attention. "I wish more people can see how it feels to go into another arena and have big faces and posters. It's a blessing."

Howard didn't offer much more, didn't leave any bread crumbs indicating the direction of his future. "Right now, my only concern is winning games, playing as hard as I can every night and leading my team," he said. "That's the only thing I can control. I put all the other thoughts aside and I'm focused on one thing, the only thing I can control, which is what I do on the court. And that's the only answer I can give you."

There is no need for Howard to make waves now, knowing the Magic won't make any moves until the NBA's annual All-Star extravaganza rolls out of Florida this weekend. The chase for Howard won't heat up in earnest until March 1, when Magic general manager Otis Smith asks Howard, again, to sign a five-year, $110 million contract extension, an offer Howard will assuredly reject.

There will be some temptation to challenge Howard, to see if he will leave the $30 million on the table in July and sign elsewhere. But the fear of getting burned, like the Cavaliers and Raptors, will be too great, the appeal of quickly rebuilding like Denver and Utah too tempting, and the Magic will let the Nets, Mavericks and Lakers know they are open for business.

The Nets will be prepared when they do. The creative mind of GM Billy King is already working, constructing, as he did in the pursuit of Carmelo Anthony a year ago, possible three- and four-team trade scenarios to pitch when Smith is ready to talk. An offer with Brook Lopez and draft picks is good, but since the Lakers have the potential to put All-Star center Andrew Bynum on the table, New Jersey knows it must add pieces to the pot.

But the Nets also know they are Howard's top choice, with a new arena in the largest media market and the perfect co-star waiting for him next fall. Yes, the relationship between Howard and Deron Williams is strong. On the eve of Williams' rematch with the Knicks' Jeremy Lin, Howard texted Williams and told him to take it to him, to leave no doubt. Howard has told friends he would love the chance to play with Williams, a top-five point guard who would have no issue relinquishing the spotlight and allowing Howard to be the team's alpha dog.

As the drama around Howard picks up, the Magic are trying to avoid becoming a casualty. Orlando has quietly put together an effective season. They have the fifth best record in the NBA (22-12) behind a stingy defense and prolific three-point shooting. Miami and Chicago are considered the frontrunners with the Lin-led Knicks collecting the hype, but there is a growing feeling in Orlando that in a seven-game series with Howard in the middle, they will be tough to beat.

"We have a good team, we know that," Nelson told SI.com. "We can't get caught up in any rumors. We have to stay professional. His situation is his situation. Every day you hear new stuff. But Dwight is the one who has to go through all this stuff. And he has been professional about it. All of us, we're focusing on winning. We believe we can compete with anybody."

A resolution isn't coming soon, but it's coming. Like LeBron James, Howard wants to be courted, wants to be wooed like the franchise players that have hit the market before him. Howard will say the right things at All-Star Weekend and give the home fans one more show. Then he will be gone, off to a destination of his choosing. And the Nets are hoping, praying that it's to them.
I'm assuming that the Pacers could be involved as a 3rd or 4th Team absorbing some contracts.....the question is what we could get out of this.

The problem is that the Magic would likely require Hedo and his $11-12 mil per year / 3 year Contract ...which would total roughly $29.1 mil salary for the 2011-2012 season. Correct me if I'm wrong...but at 125% of salary and with the Nets over the Salary Cap....they would have to send out at least $24 mil in salary. From what I have read...the Magic don't want to re-build...but re-tool...a la what the Nuggets did. This makes sense given the # of large long-term contracts that they have.

Looking at the Magic roster....there isn't anything that I would want....at worst, maybe Reddick....but I'm not too crazy about his contract.

Looking at the Nets' roster....I'd only take Expirings ( maybe Okur to fill out the Frontcourt the rest of the season? ) and one of the 1st round picks that they have...or Marshon Brooks.

I don't know....but given that Billy King will probably look for those 3 or 4 Team trade scenarios....I have no clue what scenarios that the Pacers can be involved since the only thing that we can offer is CapSpace.

Pacerized
02-25-2012, 08:55 AM
There will be some temptation to challenge Howard, to see if he will leave the $30 million on the table in July and sign elsewhere. But the fear of getting burned, like the Cavaliers and Raptors, will be too great, the appeal of quickly rebuilding like Denver and Utah too tempting, and the Magic will let the Nets, Mavericks and Lakers know they are open for business.


Just to copy this part of the article, I think he discounts the possibility that the Magic are serious about calling Howards bluff.
He can't join any other team in the same way that Lebron did. Lebron didn't really sign for less, he was able to force a sign and trade from the Cavs in order to keep his Bird rights and get the additional year and higher annual raises. In fact, no major free agent has ever left his Bird rights on the table. Howard won't have the option under the new CBA unless he's traded before the deadline. The Nets don't have nearly as much to offer as NY did for Melo and I don't think the Magic want what they have. At some point a team needs to have pair and call the players bluff. I think the Magic are serious about this. I doubt if Howard would leave the 30 mil on the table to join another team next summer.

PacerGuy
02-25-2012, 09:51 AM
The ONLY way I help NJ clear cap*, thus keeping Howard in the East, is if it also lands me Marshon Brooks, nothing less!

I also read that 83% of that 30 mil. figure ORL can offer is in that 5th yr, meanong if Howard wants out badly, & thinks he can recoup that in his next contract (he will be 31 vs. 32), then he would not be losing much over just the 4 yrs by going elsewhere. IMO, barring injury, he could still very likely get a max deal @ 31.

*To be clear, this refers to clear cap while still keeping D.Will. Should it be clear that Howard is not going to NJ, & NJ needs a trade partner to "clear cap" w/ D.Will, I may be willing to make an exception to the Marshon Brooks rule! :)

ejwallace
02-25-2012, 10:01 AM
I'd help em out by taking Morrow, Brooks, and Humphries off their hands for our cap space and send em back a Lou....that would help them dump 13-14 million, while helping us upgrade at a couple positions....

Justin Tyme
02-25-2012, 12:04 PM
Those guys didn't blow up quite as abruptly. They have been surprises, but they also got some minutes before their rise. .


Pekovic was a bench rider, and didn't arise until an injury to Darko allowed him to play solid minutes. In the 1st 11 games of the season, he didn't play in 9 games and the other 2 a total of 4 minutes. It wasn't until the Dallas game Jan 25th did Pekovic start his ascension to be noticed.

Lets face it, most on this board had no idea who Pekovic was until the Minnie game. My mentioning and posting his game stats in the Random Thoughts thread can't be compared to the NY media making Lin big news and the darling of the NBA. As far as I'm concerned, Pekovic is every big of a surprise in the NBA as Lin is. W/o a doubt if Pekovic had been a Knick, he'd be headline news and everyone would know about him. I'd take Pekovic over Lin everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. IMO, Lin will not continue at the pace of play he has been, especially with Melo back, where as I feel Pekovic will continue as he's been. JMOAA

pacer4ever
02-25-2012, 12:11 PM
Pekovic was a bench rider, and didn't arise until an injury to Darko allowed him to play solid minutes. In the 1st 11 games of the season, he didn't play in 9 games and the other 2 a total of 4 minutes. It wasn't until the Dallas game Jan 25th did Pekovic start his ascension to be noticed.

Lets face it, most on this board had no idea who Pekovic was until the Minnie game. My mentioning and posting his game stats in the Random Thoughts thread can't be compared to the NY media making Lin big news and the darling of the NBA. As far as I'm concerned, Pekovic is every big of a surprise in the NBA as Lin is. W/o a doubt if Pekovic had been a Knick, he'd be headline news and everyone would know about him. I'd take Pekovic over Lin everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. IMO, Lin will not continue at the pace of play he has been, especially with Melo back, where as I feel Pekovic will continue as he's been. JMOAA
Pekovic was the best C in Euro that isnt coming out of no where. But he was underrated with how he played over seas and how he was as a prospect I figured he would go much higher in the draft with the display he put on vs elite competition a few years ago. He played bad last year and that surprised me I though he would be a impact guy from day one but he needed time to adjust.

Pek is a beast and showed why he dominated in Europe after learning to not foul as much this season. With the difference in rules you can understand why it took him a year to adjust.

Also If Pek had been a Knick he probably starts last season they didnt have a C.

Justin Tyme
02-25-2012, 12:23 PM
Pekovic was the best C in Euro that isnt coming out of no where. But he was underrated with how he played over seas and how he was as a prospect I figured he would go much higher in the draft with the display he put on vs elite competition a few years ago. He played bad last year and that surprised me I though he would be a impact guy from day one but he needed time to adjust.

Pek is a beast and showed why he dominated in Europe after learning to not foul as much this season. With the difference in rules you can understand why it took him a year to adjust.

Also If Pek had been a Knick he probably starts last season they didnt have a C.


"The media makes players" whether they were in Europe previous to the NBA or where ever. Pekovic in Minnie, which isn't a large media market, isn't going to get the coverage of Lin in NY. The average person has heard of Lin, they have no idea who Pekovic is. He could be the President/PM of a foreign country as far as they know.

pacer4ever
02-25-2012, 01:42 PM
"The media makes players" whether they were in Europe previous to the NBA or where ever. Pekovic in Minnie, which isn't a large media market, isn't going to get the coverage of Lin in NY. The average person has heard of Lin, they have no idea who Pekovic is. He could be the President/PM of a foreign country as far as they know.

Of course the media puts on the most marketable players to get ratings. The average person in LA probably has no idea who Danny Granger. But Danny Granger isnt going to draw ratings compared to the story that is J-Lin. If you are gauging players off media attention that is the complete wrong way to go about it.

Pek is a very good player and has been for years. Most draft experts who scout Europe like a Fran Fraschilla considered Pek a steal for where he was drafted on draft day I though he slipped as well. Basketball guys know Pek can play he may not get national media credit but very few do so I dont know why it is a big deal. A main reason I don't watch a network like ESPN especially a show like SC is because it is all ratings driven and not basketball driven. I understand why but I would rather watch them talk about basketball then the silly stuff they end up talking about that rarely even has to do with the game.

CableKC
02-25-2012, 03:17 PM
Just to copy this part of the article, I think he discounts the possibility that the Magic are serious about calling Howards bluff.
He can't join any other team in the same way that Lebron did. Lebron didn't really sign for less, he was able to force a sign and trade from the Cavs in order to keep his Bird rights and get the additional year and higher annual raises. In fact, no major free agent has ever left his Bird rights on the table. Howard won't have the option under the new CBA unless he's traded before the deadline. The Nets don't have nearly as much to offer as NY did for Melo and I don't think the Magic want what they have. At some point a team needs to have pair and call the players bluff. I think the Magic are serious about this. I doubt if Howard would leave the 30 mil on the table to join another team next summer.
Does the new CBA allow for the "Sign the 5 year Extension offer that ONLY the Magic can give Howard then trade him to the Team of his Choice afterwards" ( like what MarshMelo/LeDecision/TagAlong did )?

In other words.....does Dwight get to "have his cake and eat it too"?

I thought that this part of the new CBA was intact :shrug:

CableKC
02-25-2012, 03:28 PM
The ONLY way I help NJ clear cap*, thus keeping Howard in the East, is if it also lands me Marshon Brooks, nothing less!..........*To be clear, this refers to clear cap while still keeping D.Will. Should it be clear that Howard is not going to NJ, & NJ needs a trade partner to "clear cap" w/ D.Will, I may be willing to make an exception to the Marshon Brooks rule! :)
Totally agree with this....I hope that Bird is thinking the same way and that the only reason why we would be included in ANY 3 way deal is to help facilitate any such trade. There has to be more incentive then the Pacers taking on Morrow or some huge Expiring Contract.

Whether it be getting involved in some 3 way trade with the Raptors ( if they want to clear space to make a run at Wilson Chandler ) or the Magic/Nets ( if they want Dwight ); I'd only take back an Expiring Contract or a 2yr deal ( ONLY for a Player that fits our needs ) AND a future asset ( such as a 1st OR a prospect like Marshon Brooks ).

Otherwise, there is no need for the Pacers to be involved. Bird's first response when getting a call from Raptors or the Nets is..."what's in it for us?"

Pacerized
02-25-2012, 05:10 PM
Does the new CBA allow for the "Sign the 5 year Extension offer that ONLY the Magic can give Howard then trade him to the Team of his Choice afterwards" ( like what MarshMelo/LeDecision/TagAlong did )?

In other words.....does Dwight get to "have his cake and eat it too"?

I thought that this part of the new CBA was intact :shrug:

No, Howard can't sign with the Magic and then be unless it's for a 4 year deal with smaller raises. If he signs the 5 year deal he can't be traded for a period of team, I think it's 1 year. By then he'd be under contract the Magic and they'd have no reason to agree to trading him unless it was their idea. The new cba has killed the S&T with Bird rights. Players can't have their cake and eat it too any longer.

Justin Tyme
02-25-2012, 05:25 PM
Of course the media puts on the most marketable players to get ratings. The average person in LA probably has no idea who Danny Granger. But Danny Granger isnt going to draw ratings compared to the story that is J-Lin. If you are gauging players off media attention that is the complete wrong way to go about it.

Pek is a very good player and has been for years. Most draft experts who scout Europe like a Fran Fraschilla considered Pek a steal for where he was drafted on draft day I though he slipped as well. Basketball guys know Pek can play he may not get national media credit but very few do so I dont know why it is a big deal. A main reason I don't watch a network like ESPN especially a show like SC is because it is all ratings driven and not basketball driven. I understand why but I would rather watch them talk about basketball then the silly stuff they end up talking about that rarely even has to do with the game.


Again, Pekovic might have played well in Europe. "The point is for all is great play in Europe he sat on the bench last year." He was a nobody that except for the most ardent even knew about. I spotted him, last season and kept him as a thought for the Pacers. That was w/o any knowledge of anything he had accomplished in Europe. Not until Nuntius posted about the player he was in Europe did I have a clue about his play in Europe. To me, he is as big of a media story as Lin, not to mention a better player, but he's in a small media market where he gets little pub. JMOAA

Ownagedood
02-28-2012, 10:03 AM
I'm a little disappointed we haven't made any moves yet.. I know things heat up at the deadline.. But i kinda expected something to happen for us All-Star weekend.

vnzla81
02-28-2012, 10:34 AM
I'm a little disappointed we haven't made any moves yet.. I know things heat up at the deadline.. But i kinda expected something to happen for us All-Star weekend.

Teams are waiting for March 1st, a lot of players can't be traded before that, in the Pacers case West or Hill can't be traded before that.

wintermute
02-28-2012, 12:16 PM
Teams are waiting for March 1st, a lot of players can't be traded before that, in the Pacers case West or Hill can't be traded before that.

Plus everyone's waiting to see what happens with Dwight.

RLeWorm
02-28-2012, 01:31 PM
We strengthen the team by trading Granger!

Justin Tyme
02-28-2012, 01:34 PM
We strengthen the team by trading Granger!

It's not going to happen.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
02-28-2012, 01:42 PM
It's not going to happen.
I hope not. I just bought my first NBA jersey in about 15 years and it was Granger. If he gets traded I'll have a $100 lump of crap on my hands. I probably won't buy an NBA jersey for another 15 years. You hear that TPTB?

xBulletproof
02-28-2012, 01:44 PM
I hope not. I just bought my first NBA jersey in about 15 years and it was Granger. If he gets traded I'll have a $100 lump of crap on my hands. I probably won't buy an NBA jersey for another 15 years. You hear that TPTB?

Well unfortunately I don't think TPTB are going to make decisions based on your $6.67 a year investment. :laugh:

CableKC
02-28-2012, 01:56 PM
I hope not. I just bought my first NBA jersey in about 15 years and it was Granger. If he gets traded I'll have a $100 lump of crap on my hands. I probably won't buy an NBA jersey for another 15 years. You hear that TPTB?
You should have gone with the safe route and get a Lance Jersey ( since Bird believes in him so much ;) ) or better yet....a PG24 jersey.

Anthem
02-28-2012, 02:12 PM
We strengthen the team by trading Granger!
"Trading Granger for Dwight" would be a positive. Trading Granger for DWill? Heck, I'd even take trading Granger for Melo! :D

But trading Granger just to trade him? Silliness.

TheDon
02-28-2012, 04:47 PM
I'll save everyone the frustration 16 days ahead of time, "We had some options out there, but they all fell through in the last minute. However, we're happy with what we have right now." Granted, this will be the first time in a long time where I actually agree with I'm happy the way our team has I think overachieved at this point.


I'd still like to be proven wrong and we end up finding something that makes sense and allows us to better our team. I'm not advocating that we should trade, but I think some people on here believe that the trade deadline means if we didn't make any sort of moves than we failed.

wintermute
02-28-2012, 05:36 PM
I'll save everyone the frustration 16 days ahead of time, "We had some options out there, but they all fell through in the last minute. However, we're happy with what we have right now." Granted, this will be the first time in a long time where I actually agree with I'm happy the way our team has I think overachieved at this point.


I'd still like to be proven wrong and we end up finding something that makes sense and allows us to better our team. I'm not advocating that we should trade, but I think some people on here believe that the trade deadline means if we didn't make any sort of moves than we failed.

I'm 100% positive we're making a move this year. We still have $14m in cap space and 2 empty roster spots. Something will surely get done, maybe not the big sexy move we're hoping for, but at the very least nabbing an extra pick or prospect with the cap space.

Anthem
02-28-2012, 10:15 PM
I'm 100% positive we're making a move this year. We still have $14m in cap space and 2 empty roster spots. Something will surely get done, maybe not the big sexy move we're hoping for, but at the very least nabbing an extra pick or prospect with the cap space.
And I'd be content with that.

Eddie Gill
02-28-2012, 10:23 PM
I hope not. I just bought my first NBA jersey in about 15 years and it was Granger. If he gets traded I'll have a $100 lump of crap on my hands. I probably won't buy an NBA jersey for another 15 years. You hear that TPTB?

The last jersey I bought was Ron Artest before the 04-05 season. I'm looking to play it safe and go with a strict retired players only policy from now on.

Hicks
02-28-2012, 10:50 PM
I hope we take advantage of our cap space and add one more piece while we still can. This door is going to close after the deadline because Roy (and probably George) get paid this summer.

ndcoltsnpacers
02-28-2012, 11:01 PM
I'll save everyone the frustration 16 days ahead of time, "We had some options out there, but they all fell through in the last minute. However, we're happy with what we have right now." Granted, this will be the first time in a long time where I actually agree with I'm happy the way our team has I think overachieved at this point.


I'd still like to be proven wrong and we end up finding something that makes sense and allows us to better our team. I'm not advocating that we should trade, but I think some people on here believe that the trade deadline means if we didn't make any sort of moves than we failed.

Absolutely correct. It won't be that easy, however. There will be some big-ish name that we're rumored to be trying to get. Everybody will be posting our potential depth chart and drooling over it, then everyone will be disappointed because we'll have nobody new even though we're pretty good as-is. It's human nature.

vnzla81
02-28-2012, 11:05 PM
I'll be dissapointed if we don't make a trade because is going to be few years before we get cap space again.

xBulletproof
02-28-2012, 11:09 PM
I hope we take advantage of our cap space and add one more piece while we still can. This door is going to close after the deadline because Roy (and probably George) get paid this summer.

Not so much. Roy has a cap hold of 6.5 million, and George Hill should have a cap hold of 3.8. Foster has a cap hold of 4.5 and if Dahntay opts out he has a hold of 4 million. Lou has a cap hold of 3.8 and AJ Price has a hold of 1 million.

The only cap holds you need to hold onto to maintain the rights to the players are Roy and George Hill. You can renounce the rest.

If Dahntay picks up his option, we have 36 million in salary. Plus Roy and George Hills cap holds, that's roughly 47 million. We will still have 10 million under the cap while holding onto our rights to match anything from Roy or Hill. The trick is we have to make any moves to use that space BEFORE Hibbert or George Hill sign their new contracts which will inevitably cost more money than the cap holds.

;)

Anthem
02-28-2012, 11:29 PM
I'm still digging Morrow and a 1st for a future 2nd, and Jermaine and a 1st for a future 2nd.

Nuntius
02-28-2012, 11:32 PM
I'm still digging Morrow and a 1st for a future 2nd, and Jermaine and a 1st for a future 2nd.

Who would give us players and a 1st for a 2nd? :p

Anthem
02-28-2012, 11:41 PM
Who would give us players and a 1st for a 2nd? :p
Teams that are substantially over the luxury tax limit.

In the case of Boston, for example, it would be as if we bought their 1st-round pick for about 10 million dollars. That's a pretty good deal for them.

Hibbert
02-29-2012, 12:54 AM
Doug (Cincy)


Any (realistic) options available to improve the Pacers at the deadline?
John Hollinger
(2:21 PM)


Yes, they need a point guard who can pass. I think Ramon Sessions would help. So would Andre Miller if they could pry him loose. And Rondo, obviously, would be a huge coup. But everybody who talks trade with them asks for Paul George, and then Indy properly hangs up the phone.

CableKC
02-29-2012, 12:56 AM
Teams that are substantially over the luxury tax limit.

In the case of Boston, for example, it would be as if we bought their 1st-round pick for about 10 million dollars. That's a pretty good deal for them.
I'd rather have Bass + 1st for our 2nd cuz Bass is serviceable......JONeal is only half as healthy as Foster is....which means that he only plays once every 3 or 4 games. If push comes to shove....I'd take JONeal if the Celtics end up with a mid-teens pick ( hopefully falling out of the Playoffs and ending with a Lottery pick ).

Hibbert
02-29-2012, 01:14 AM
I'd rather have Bass + 1st for our 2nd cuz Bass is serviceable......JONeal is only half as healthy as Foster is....which means that he only plays once every 3 or 4 games. If push comes to shove....I'd take JONeal if the Celtics end up with a mid-teens pick ( hopefully falling out of the Playoffs and ending with a Lottery pick ).

I'm sorry but nobody is just going to throw a team draft picks just for salary cap, especially a first. Pacers might make a move, although if we do it will be a small one, nothing major.

immortality
02-29-2012, 01:46 AM
I'm sorry but nobody is just going to throw a team draft picks just for salary cap, especially a first. Pacers might make a move, although if we do it will be a small one, nothing major.

Baron Davis and 1st to Cleveland for Mo Williams, pretty much a salary dump.

CableKC
02-29-2012, 01:48 AM
I'm sorry but nobody is just going to throw a team draft picks just for salary cap, especially a first. Pacers might make a move, although if we do it will be a small one, nothing major.
See Anthem's post as to ONE of the reasons why a Team may.


Teams that are substantially over the luxury tax limit.

In the case of Boston, for example, it would be as if we bought their 1st-round pick for about 10 million dollars. That's a pretty good deal for them.

I agree that it may not be possible....but also keep in mind that JONeal's $6.2 mil expiring Contract translate into a hefty LT payment that the Celtics are going to have to pay...especially if he continues to be injured and the Celtics miss the Playoffs OR they end up as the 7th or 8th seed in the Playoffs.

BillS
02-29-2012, 08:35 AM
I'll be dissapointed if we don't make a trade because is going to be few years before we get cap space again.

What, cap space has an expiration date?

If you mean we won't have as much cap space once we sign our upcoming new contracts, OK, but that means whoever we trade for better be worth going over the cap or even hitting the LT for.

Pacerized
02-29-2012, 09:05 AM
Not so much. Roy has a cap hold of 6.5 million, and George Hill should have a cap hold of 3.8. Foster has a cap hold of 4.5 and if Dahntay opts out he has a hold of 4 million. Lou has a cap hold of 3.8 and AJ Price has a hold of 1 million.

The only cap holds you need to hold onto to maintain the rights to the players are Roy and George Hill. You can renounce the rest.

If Dahntay picks up his option, we have 36 million in salary. Plus Roy and George Hills cap holds, that's roughly 47 million. We will still have 10 million under the cap while holding onto our rights to match anything from Roy or Hill. The trick is we have to make any moves to use that space BEFORE Hibbert or George Hill sign their new contracts which will inevitably cost more money than the cap holds.

;)

I think that's the plan. If a big trade is there for us now, we should take it. Otherwise, I'd rather focus on short term players like Kaman and hold onto the cap space for this summer. I don't want us bringing in a mediocre player with a long term 5 mil contract that's just enough to screw up our cap space this summer.

Anthem
02-29-2012, 09:33 AM
And Rondo, obviously, would be a huge coup. But everybody who talks trade with them asks for Paul George, and then Indy properly hangs up the phone.
If Boston's for real about blowing it up, I wonder what it would take to get Rondo.

Anthem
02-29-2012, 09:35 AM
I'd rather have Bass + 1st for our 2nd cuz Bass is serviceable......JONeal is only half as healthy as Foster is....which means that he only plays once every 3 or 4 games. If push comes to shove....I'd take JONeal if the Celtics end up with a mid-teens pick ( hopefully falling out of the Playoffs and ending with a Lottery pick ).
All legit points, but Bass is more valuable to them than Jermaine. From their perspective, they're getting rid of somebody who they don't want and will cost them $10mil to keep for half a season. One measly lotto-protected future first-round pick is a pretty good deal for $10mil.

Anthem
02-29-2012, 09:38 AM
I'm sorry but nobody is just going to throw a team draft picks just for salary cap, especially a first.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5324240

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6153550

vnzla81
02-29-2012, 09:43 AM
What, cap space has an expiration date?

If you mean we won't have as much cap space once we sign our upcoming new contracts, OK, but that means whoever we trade for better be worth going over the cap or even hitting the LT for.

Well if we sign Roy to 14mil and Hill to 7mil are we going to still have cap space money?

PacerPride33
02-29-2012, 09:47 AM
Have always loved the idea of getting Rondo and we all know Larry Legend loves Rondo too. Getting him would be a huge upgrade and is the exact type of pass-first guard would make us contenders....saying all that, I think he will probably cost more than we will be willing to give up. Collison + Hans + 2 first rounders would be the my best offer

PacerGuy
02-29-2012, 09:58 AM
If Boston's for real about blowing it up, I wonder what it would take to get Rondo.

My guess is IF we made a run @ him before the deadline, we would not want to move many "core" pieces. If we want options in the off-season, we don't want any long/bad contracts. So, IMO that means we offer as players (of value to BOS): DC, maybe Hans, possibly Hill (if they don't think they can/will re-sign him), but not much more. I could also see Lou swapped for a like but longer contract (but likely to a 3rd team - no good $/player match on BOS).

This too is where I see our cap space helping us greatly. I could also see us using our cap to absorb a contract (or 2) from other teams in smaller deals to aquire additional picks. We could then in turn add these picks to ours, + DC (+?), cap savings = pretty nice offer to BOS for Rondo IMO.
(We could even get in on a deal to help BOS aquire Beasley (rumor) to add to the total package.)

TPTB would want to ADD Rondo w/ the rest of our starting 4, not rebuild our lineup. Doing this, & keeping as much bench as possible would really make us a force.

Sparhawk
02-29-2012, 10:07 AM
I would love for the Pacers to take on a huge expiring contract if it meant getting a 1st pick to go along with that.

Ownagedood
02-29-2012, 10:12 AM
I actually was just looking around at rumors and found one from Mid-Jan where it brought out Pierce would be a great fit here.. Which I agreed with. I'd love to have him.

BUT, the offer seemed to be PG and a 1st. No thanks. People need to realize, you're not getting PG unless you give us a young star back. Dude has All-Star written all over him, no way you trade that away unless you get something great back in return. An aging Pierce is not that, especially adding a 1st for them.

Hibbert
02-29-2012, 10:33 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5324240

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6153550

Those are two decent examples but at the same time, major exceptions. Nobody wanted to touch Baron Davis and that huge contract he had/has and Kirk Hinrich's deal wasn't much better at that time. I don't see us taking on salary unless it's an expiring contract but even than our cap space can only get us so much. Our best bet is to get involved in a three team deal if there is a big name being traded and us being a facilitator.

Hibbert
02-29-2012, 10:35 AM
If Boston's for real about blowing it up, I wonder what it would take to get Rondo.

What every team wants for a star, picks and young guys only. They would want George and honestly I wouldn't want to include him in a deal unless it was for someone better than Rondo. He could help but I think we would be helping Boston more so in the long run.

Hibbert
02-29-2012, 10:39 AM
See Anthem's post as to ONE of the reasons why a Team may.



I agree that it may not be possible....but also keep in mind that JONeal's $6.2 mil expiring Contract translate into a hefty LT payment that the Celtics are going to have to pay...especially if he continues to be injured and the Celtics miss the Playoffs OR they end up as the 7th or 8th seed in the Playoffs.

This I could actually see. Good post.

xIndyFan
02-29-2012, 10:48 AM
If Boston's for real about blowing it up, I wonder what it would take to get Rondo.

i don't think BOS will blow it up at the trading deadline. jmo, but they will make the playoffs. they will give the old gang a chance in the playoffs to show they can still play with plenty of rest. the only caveat to that would be someone knocking them over with a deal in BOS's favor.

no chance that bird gives them that kind of deal. right now bird and ainge are both shopping in the discount isle. the time to steal from BOS is this summer.

xIndyFan
02-29-2012, 10:58 AM
this makes sense. assuming that danny, paul and roy are the three guys that the pacers want to keep, pretty much everyone else can be used to get an addition to the gang of three. everyone else can be played or traded to build the team around the gang of three as needed.

again, i don't see BOS doing this right now. i see them making one last run first.


My guess is IF we made a run @ him before the deadline, we would not want to move many "core" pieces. If we want options in the off-season, we don't want any long/bad contracts. So, IMO that means we offer as players (of value to BOS): DC, maybe Hans, possibly Hill (if they don't think they can/will re-sign him), but not much more. I could also see Lou swapped for a like but longer contract (but likely to a 3rd team - no good $/player match on BOS).

This too is where I see our cap space helping us greatly. I could also see us using our cap to absorb a contract (or 2) from other teams in smaller deals to aquire additional picks. We could then in turn add these picks to ours, + DC (+?), cap savings = pretty nice offer to BOS for Rondo IMO.
(We could even get in on a deal to help BOS aquire Beasley (rumor) to add to the total package.)

TPTB would want to ADD Rondo w/ the rest of our starting 4, not rebuild our lineup. Doing this, & keeping as much bench as possible would really make us a force.

Pacerized
02-29-2012, 11:33 AM
Well if we sign Roy to 14mil and Hill to 7mil are we going to still have cap space money?

Not if we sign them first, but we wouldn't. The idea would be to sign the free agent first while keeping the cap holds on Roy and Hill. Spend our way up to the 58 mil cap, then sign Roy and Hill to skirt the edge of the LT. This will be our last chance to do anything in free agency. After we sign Roy we'll stay between the 58 mil cap and the 70 mil LT for a very long time.
We had better not give Hill 7 mil. I'd rather let him walk if some other team wants to pay him that much.

Hicks
02-29-2012, 11:59 AM
I'm sorry but nobody is just going to throw a team draft picks just for salary cap, especially a first. Pacers might make a move, although if we do it will be a small one, nothing major.

It's happened before.

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/thomas_trade_070720.html

Hibbert
02-29-2012, 12:16 PM
It's happened before.

http://www.nba.com/suns/news/thomas_trade_070720.html
Yes, I'm aware that it has happened before but everytime it has been a bad contract that nobody wanted therefore they have to give up a pick or two. My point was that some people may be giving their hopes up in thinking that we have the most cap available out of any team and thinking that we are going to get a great player in return for cap relief. I just don't see it and would rather keep the money unless we can get some kind of upgrade to our bench or a promising young player in return. We could get a pick perhaps two with our cap space but we would more than likely get that in return for a large contract with years remaining and I just don't think it's likely at this point after four years of getting to where we are now.

OlBlu
02-29-2012, 12:41 PM
Yes, I'm aware that it has happened before but everytime it has been a bad contract that nobody wanted therefore they have to give up a pick or two. My point was that some people may be giving their hopes up in thinking that we have the most cap available out of any team and thinking that we are going to get a great player in return for cap relief. I just don't see it and would rather keep the money unless we can get some kind of upgrade to our bench or a promising young player in return. We could get a pick perhaps two with our cap space but we would more than likely get that in return for a large contract with years remaining and I just don't think it's likely at this point after four years of getting to where we are now.

Does the CBA require teams to spend a given percentage of their cap? I think the NBL has that........:cool:

Since86
02-29-2012, 01:04 PM
Does the CBA require teams to spend a given percentage of their cap? I think the NBL has that........:cool:

Yes. 85% of the cap, I do believe.

Anthem
02-29-2012, 03:40 PM
Those are two decent examples but at the same time, major exceptions.
Sure, because it's super rare for a team to have enough free capspace to make that kind of deal.

we are [not] going to get a great player in return for cap relief.
Both of the deals I proposed are teams looking to shed non-essential salary who could be asked to give up a pick for the privilege. In Boston's case, it saves them the remainder of Jermaine's salary, plus ~7mil in luxury tax payments. In New Jersey's case, it allows them to pursue Dwight Howard and potentially keep D. Williams.

In both cases, a pick is a reasonable payment for letting them wipe a troublesome contract off their books.