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vnzla81
02-21-2012, 10:28 AM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-the-trade-talk-is-heating-up?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nba-am-the-trade-talk-is-heating-up&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


The Scuttle Is Heating Up: Chris Broussard of ESPN.com put out a couple of fun nuggets last night, so let’s get into them:

Lakers And Beasley?: Broussard points to Michael Beasley as the player the Lakers and Wolves have talked about. Wolves’ sources have labeled Beasley as expendable since the draft when the team selected Derrick Williams with the second overall pick.

Like most teams that draft a rookie when an incumbent is already on the roster, the Wolves wanted to give Derrick room to learn and grow before making a decision. They also wanted to provide a little competition for Beasley which has not sparked the 6’10 forward as the team expected.

The Wolves did something similar with Ricky Rubio, not only did the Wolves not trade Luke Ridnour, wanting to keep him around as a safety net for Rubio. The team also signed J.J. Barea in the offseason.

With Williams and Rubio playing and adjusting well, it’s believed that Ridnour and Beasley are the odd guys out.

Both players could solve real problems for the Lakers, the questions is what would it cost LA to get both?

The Lakers do hold a $8.9 million Traded Players exception, but could not acquire both players using that tool.

Beasley is owed $6.2 million this season and due for a qualifying offer of $8.17 million this summer or he’ll become an unrestricted free agent.

Ridnour is owed $3.68 million this year and has two more years on his deal worth $4 million and $4.32 million respectively.

Point Guards: The Lakers have been linked to several point guards including free agent Gilbert Arenas and Cleveland’s Ramon Sessions.

Broussard points to Sessions as a preferred target, suggesting that closer to the trade deadline he might be obtainable for just a draft pick.

Arenas is an option now, and an inexpensive low-risk one at that. However according to Arenas, he’s not close to signing anything just yet.

Gilbert spoke to Sam Amick of SI.com this week on a wide range of issues, including his workout with the Lakers.

“I was actually training in New York,” explained Arenas “My agent, Dan Fegan, told me to come out and work out for the Lakers. My whole thing is, I don’t want to play for anybody until I’m finished rehabbing and finished doing what I need to do, so that’s not going to happen until at least All-Star break. So I decided, Well, I’ll just go out there and work out.

“I’m just showing you what I have. You can either keep reading newspapers articles where they say I’m 40 pounds overweight and I lost a step — all the fantasy stuff people want to talk about because they’re going off my last year where I was basically mentally out of it. Or you can just see for yourself: This is what I am. A 6-foot-3 guard, 6-10 wingspan, still got his quickness, can still jump, still fast. I make shots, and that’s what I am. I’m not here to sell anything, but look, here’s what I am and then I’m going back home to my family.”

Arenas underwent several rounds of Platelet Rich Plasma Therapy including injections in both knees and his hips and has been working on his game and his physical conditioning.

Gilbert says he’ll look at his options more seriously after the All-Star break this weekend in Orlando.

The Lakers are expected to do the same, not only with Arenas who still appears to be an option, but also in trade.

The Cavaliers continue to say they are not looking to tear their team apart just yet, but it seems inevitable that Sessions or guard Daniel Gibson would be moved for future assets like draft picks or salary cap room.

Gibson may be more valuable in trade because the final year of his contract is non-guaranteed. But that may also make him the more attractive player of the two to keep especially if the Cavs goal is to get cap space to sign new players.

As things stand today the Cavs have $31 million in salary commitments next season including the $4.55 million Player Option on Sessions and the $4.79 million non-guaranteed option on Gibson.

This one will be interesting to watch.

Frustrations In Atlanta: First it was Tracy McGrady… now it seems Marvin Williams is unhappy with his role.

Let’s be honest. If the Hawks could move Marvin Williams, they would. Marvin’s contract has been a bad deal for a while now and if the team could trade him even for little to nothing in return they would do it just to get the contract off the books.

Williams has also been problematic with the coaching staff and been labeled something of a diva in Atlanta.

So to be fair to Marvin who is reportedly unhappy and looking for an exit, if the Hawks could find a door to push Marvin out of, they’d likely do it yesterday.

Marvin is a good guy and a reasonably good player, but he has never lived up to the huge five-year $40 million contract he signed in 2009.

Marvin is owed $7.5 million this year and has two more years left on his deal worth $8.287 million next year, with a Early Termination Option worth $7.5 million in 2013-2014.

That’s a tough deal to swallow for a guy that’s averaging 9.6 points and 5.4 rebounds per game and shooting a career low 42.6% from the field.

The Raptors: There is no doubting that Raptors guard Jose Calderon has played himself back into the trade market. Last season the Raptors couldn’t get a serious offer for Calderon, now the line of teams that are interested in him is real and fruitful.

The Raptors are where they should be with the talent they have collected… they are winning some games, but losing more than they win. The question is should the Raptors start selling off assets to remove long term money?

Chris Broussard floated out Andre Bargnani in addition to Calderon, as players teams are calling about which shouldn’t be a surprise.

Moving Bargnani would remove more than $41 million from the Raptors balance sheet over the next four years, as well as gaining $10 million more in cap space next summer.

Prior to missing the last month with a calf injury, Andrea was playing extremely well, which begs the question of how good could he be next season with Jonas Valančiūnas, the Raptors draft pick this year and what’s looks to be another lottery pick next year?

Trading Calderon and his final $10.5 million contract year and Bargnani would get the Raptors to just $21 million in salary commitments making them one of the top cap space teams next summer, but they would have little by way of proven players to build around.

The Raptors are not mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, but sitting on just nine wins, the odds of a second half surge is slim.

Is it time to start selling off the assets… several NBA teams are trying to get Toronto to do just that.

The NBA Trade Deadline is 23 days away, so as teams get ready for the All-Star Break, expect the conversation level to pick up as teams try and figure out who they are going to be for the second half of the season.

Moving Rondo?: Gerry Callahan of the Boston Hearld brings up a great point on Boston’s Rajon Rondo.

If the Celtics are going to have to move into rebuild mode, will Rondo sit idle and lose while the team restructures?

As Callahan so accurately states:

“Rondo has three years (and $36 million) left on his contract after this season, and even when things are going OK, he appears impatient, annoyed, petulant.”

As good as a Rondo can be as a player, is he the guy that you want trot out to the media after losing a 10th game in 12 tries?

The truth of the rebuilding cycle in the NBA is that when you have been to the top, you generally get at least one trip to the bottom at some point and with all of the Celtics’ core getting older by the second, wouldn’t it be smarter for the Celtics to deal Rondo and try to jump start the rebuild/retool?

There is no doubting that Rondo is a chip the Celtics would cash and have explored cashing.

So when you ask yourself ‘why would Boston consider moving him?’; keep in mind they may feel the same way about Rondo as Callahan does. Rondo might not have the temperament to go through rebuilding and that’s something the Celtics have to consider as the season carries on.

The Celtics are currently sitting at 15-16 on the season which is good enough for eighth place in the East which would match them up in the post season with Miami if the standings hold true.

The Celtics have 34 games remaining on the schedule, including 18 home games and 16 away games. Of the remaining games Boston will see 19 teams with a record above.500 and 24 teams from the East.

There is no doubting that Boston has the talent and the fire power to shoot themselves into a better playoff seed, but at some point Boston is going to have to decide when they are going to be sellers and based on the frequency and variety of Rondo rumors, if the Celtics are out of the playoff picture come March 15th, circle Rondo as a name likely on the move.

vnzla81
02-21-2012, 10:46 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/37357/lakers-like-beasley


While we may not see many trades occur before the week of the March 15 deadline, discussions are taking place in front offices throughout the league.

Here's some of the scuttlebutt I've heard:

The Lakers' front office knows Kobe Bryant is looking for it to improve the roster, and GM Mitch Kupchak has been working the phones. He's spoken to Minnesota about Michael Beasley, and sources say the Lakers are intrigued by the Timberwolves' small forward. The Lakers were actually in discussions with Minnesota about a potential trade for Beasley before the season started. If they would have been able to pull off the deal for Chris Paul, there is a good chance that a trade for Beasley would have followed.

It's not clear what the Lakers would give Minnesota for Beasley (if indeed the talks get that far), but the Lakers could absorb Beasley into their $8.9 million trade exception while giving up a draft pick or cash. I'm told the teams have not spoken about Pau Gasol since the preseason. Minnesota is looking to move Beasley, who they feel has matured very little (if at all) since he's been there, according to sources. The Lakers believe they can handle a player like Beasley because of their winning culture and the leadership of Bryant.

Of course, the Lakers need a point guard even more than a small forward. While they worked out Gilbert Arenas last week, they have not come to a decision on him. They want to see if they can get another point guard, such as Cleveland's Ramon Sessions, before making a play for Arenas. There's a good chance they can get Sessions for a first-round draft pick before the deadline, sources say. If they don't get Sessions or someone else, they may bring Arenas aboard.

There are a few other PGs who could be available. While the Lakers would love to get Houston's Kyle Lowry, the Rockets plan to build around their vastly-improved point guard. But either of their two backups, Goran Dragic or Jonny Flynn, would be an improvement over what they currently have.

Lots of teams are calling Toronto about Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani. The Raptors aren't likely to part with Bargnani, and if they move Calderon, they'll need to get a point guard in return. That would seem to make a trade for Calderon unlikely.

Sources say Dallas is about ready to move on from the Roddy Beaubois experiment. The Mavericks have thought for years that the talented young Frenchman could be another Tony Parker, but he has not been able to master the move from shooting guard to point guard. Nor has he been able to fill the void left by J.J. Barea. If they don't move him before this year's deadline, he could be gone over the summer.

The feeling among some in Atlanta is that the Hawks' rotation was thrown out of whack by the return of Kirk Hinrich. The Hawks started the season 13-5 but have gone just 6-8 since Hinrich returned from shoulder surgery. Though he's struggled this season, one would think Hinrich could help a club if made available.

Frustration abounds in Atlanta right now, and sources say Marvin Williams wants out because he wants to play somewhere where he'll have an increased role offensively. Williams is averaging just 9.6 points per game, his lowest since his rookie season.

They're frustrated in Portland too, and Raymond Felton said as much in a report last week. But Felton, who's averaging a career-low 10 points on 36 percent shooting, knows he's at least partly to blame as well. He recently had talks with the Blazers' coaching staff and the idea of bringing him off the bench to stir things up was broached. Felton would be amenable to that, but only as a short-term solution.

MiaDragon
02-21-2012, 10:52 AM
The more I read about Rondo makes me unsure If Id want him near the Pacers.

J7F
02-21-2012, 11:08 AM
Crappy crop of possible deadliners...

Rondo and Ridnour are the only 2 meantioned that interest me...

And no talk of Kaman?

BRushWithDeath
02-21-2012, 11:14 AM
The more I read about Rondo makes me unsure If Id want him near the Pacers.

But the more you watch him the more you think he'd be a perfect fit. He's obviously not without his warts but he's so good that you can get past them.

Ace E.Anderson
02-21-2012, 11:16 AM
I'm not sure what his contract is looking like, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to adding Hinrich. I've always thought his game would be appreciated here in Indy.

Lance George
02-21-2012, 11:24 AM
Cuban says rookie Beaubois basically off limits for trade - Dallas Morning News (http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/pages/landing?Cuban-says-rookie-Beaubois-basically-off=1&blockID=177392&feedID=3742)

"I'm not going to trade him. There are maybe one or two guys in the league I'll trade him for. Other than that, he's pretty much untouchable. It'd have to be an incredible player. There are maybe one or two guys that we'd include him in [a trade for]. That's how highly we think of him."


Roddy Beaubois is close to untradeable - Dallas Mavericks Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4674038/roddy-beaubois-is-close-to-untradeable)

DALLAS -- Mavericks owner Mark Cuban has a message for the Charlotte Bobcats or any other team with designs on prying Roddy Beaubois from Dallas in a deadline trade: The kid isn't available.

"With a few exceptions," Cuban said prior to Saturday night's game against the Atlanta Hawks.

Without naming names (insert Carmelo Anthony here), Cuban made it clear it would take a superstar-type player in return for Cuban to relinquish the one young, up-and-comer on the Mavs' roster (no offense to first-round pick Dominique Jones, but he's not in that category yet).

Cuban reiterated his stance from about this time a year ago with the trade deadline just under a month away.


Mavs ready to move on from Beaubois - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/37357/lakers-like-beasley)

Sources say Dallas is about ready to move on from the Roddy Beaubois experiment. The Mavericks have thought for years that the talented young Frenchman could be another Tony Parker, but he has not been able to master the move from shooting guard to point guard. Nor has he been able to fill the void left by J.J. Barea. If they don't move him before this year's deadline, he could be gone over the summer.

At this rate, Cuban will be begging for a 2nd round pick for him next year.

Dgreenwell3
02-21-2012, 11:29 AM
Rodrigue Beaubois isn't a rookie is he?

xIndyFan
02-21-2012, 11:33 AM
Rodrigue Beaubois isn't a rookie is he?

he was hurt, [knee i think]. how has he looked coming back. has he lost that lightning quickness? if so, then he is just another undersized 2. very very undersized 2.

Sparhawk
02-21-2012, 11:38 AM
Rodrigue Beaubois isn't a rookie is he?

The first article was from 2010, then 2011, then now.

Hicks
02-21-2012, 11:51 AM
But the more you watch him the more you think he'd be a perfect fit. He's obviously not without his warts but he's so good that you can get past them.

I think the truth is he's so good you can only hope his BS doesn't drag things down. I'm not sure at all.

Gamble1
02-21-2012, 12:00 PM
I think the truth is he's so good you can only hope his BS doesn't drag things down. I'm not sure at all.
I think its been said before but Rondo thinks he is better than everyone else and that can rub teammates the wrong way. Kobe is that way as well but he doesn't let his emotions control him like Rondo does.

I still think Rondo would be a good/great fit but he would cost too much to get so I refuse to entertain a plausible trade. ITs just not going to happen IMO.

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 12:07 PM
Rodrigue Beaubois isn't a rookie is he?

He's in his 3rd year and isn't worth much...2nd round pick value.

Cuban talkin about him like Bird talks about Lance.

_The_Future_
02-21-2012, 12:08 PM
I would love to have Calderon. That $10.5 is kind of high though, and Im sure he would want similar numbers in a new contract as long as he played up to expectations.

graphic-er
02-21-2012, 12:09 PM
If we could get Rondo with out gutting the team, then its totally worth it. Rondo just has high standards for himself and the team.

okroe3
02-21-2012, 12:11 PM
I actually just posted a trade with Toronto and Memphis on the Trade page, were we pick up Bargnani, Calderon and Mayo for DG,DC,DJ,Admunson, Phyco T.
I won't go into the whole thing, but check it out if you want.

Gamble1
02-21-2012, 12:12 PM
I would love to have Calderon. That $10.5 is kind of high though, and Im sure he would want similar numbers in a new contract as long as he played up to expectations.
I have no interest in Calderon. His defense is just too bad for me to even consider him as a Pacer and yes the 10.5 is way to much for a guy like him.

_The_Future_
02-21-2012, 12:14 PM
I actually just posted a trade with Toronto and Memphis on the Trade page, were we pick up Bargnani, Calderon and Mayo for DG,DC,DJ,Admunson, Phyco T.
I won't go into the whole thing, but check it out if you want.



Rebuilding the team?

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 12:16 PM
If we could get Rondo with out gutting the team, then its totally worth it. Rondo just has high standards for himself and the team.

Nothing against Rondo, but if he was to come here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to gut some of the team...like Hibbert, Hans and Collison would be good. Hibbert is to much a post player and Hans reaction time is to slow for Rondo. I'd like to see a Gortat Center and Cousins PF with Rondo. Rondo would have a hay day. Rondo would be very frustrated with Hibbert and Hans, I'd feel sorry for the guy, really.

OlBlu
02-21-2012, 12:21 PM
I actually just posted a trade with Toronto and Memphis on the Trade page, were we pick up Bargnani, Calderon and Mayo for DG,DC,DJ,Admunson, Phyco T.
I won't go into the whole thing, but check it out if you want.

Please do not go into it. The idea is absurd......:cool:

Dgreenwell3
02-21-2012, 12:21 PM
Nothing against Rondo, but if he was to come here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to gut some of the team...like Hibbert, Hans and Collison would be good. Hibbert is to much a post player and Hans reaction time is to slow for Rondo. I'd like to see a Gortat Center and Cousins PF with Rondo. Rondo would have a hay day. Rondo would be very frustrated with Hibbert and Hans, I'd feel sorry for the guy, really.

Yeah rondo would be a perfect fit for an uptempo offense...I am just not sure if he is a good fit for our current roster...

graphic-er
02-21-2012, 12:22 PM
Nothing against Rondo, but if he was to come here, it wouldn't be a bad idea to gut some of the team...like Hibbert, Hans and Collison would be good. Hibbert is to much a post player and Hans reaction time is to slow for Rondo. I'd like to see a Gortat Center and Cousins PF with Rondo. Rondo would have a hay day. Rondo would be very frustrated with Hibbert and Hans, I'd feel sorry for the guy, really.

YES! Gortat! I agree with you. I'd unload Hibbert for Gortat. I would not however want Cousins on this team. He is a buffoon.

Pingu
02-21-2012, 12:26 PM
Not sure what happened with Beaubois. He was on pace to become a good player before his foot injury. Now he's just very inconsistent and looks like he lacks self-confidence. He looks nowhere near like the kid who dropped 40 on the Warriors as a rookie. Maybe he could use a change of scenery.

I'd give him a shot for a 2nd round pick + AJ, but nothing more.

_The_Future_
02-21-2012, 12:28 PM
I have no interest in Calderon. His defense is just too bad for me to even consider him as a Pacer and yes the 10.5 is way to much for a guy like him.

It would just be nice to have a PG that could dish out almost 10 dimes a game and create more shots for other guys. I agree his D is not that good, we could slide in Hill to play a little D. But yeah unless he comes down off of 10.5, no way.

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 12:33 PM
Yeah rondo would be a perfect fit for an uptempo offense...I am just not sure if he is a good fit for our current roster...

Yes, uptempo or a 1/2 court like Boston running alot of high screens and P&R.

MTM
02-21-2012, 12:33 PM
I would love to have Calderon. That $10.5 is kind of high though, and Im sure he would want similar numbers in a new contract as long as he played up to expectations.

Something about that guy makes me think I would not like to root for him. The same way I felt when Stephen Jackson wore the blue and gold and always yapped at the officials. I don't know what it is about Calderon, and maybe I'd feel differently if he wore Pacers' colors, but I am not sure I would like him on my team.

2minutes twoa
02-21-2012, 12:36 PM
I love the trade deadline and draft time!! Even though most of the trades discussed never happen, it sure is fun for a while.

I still think Rondo is the perfect PG for this team! He isn't the friendliest guy and might be a challenge at times, but he instantly makes the Pacers contenders and is still young enough to grow with the core that is already in place!

And who knows, maybe not being looked at as the fourth wheel anymore, his attitude might actually improve!

LA_Confidential
02-21-2012, 12:43 PM
I disagree totally with anyone who says Rondo can't fit in with our team as is currently constructed. Thats a ridiculous statement. We have have shooters, slashers and bigs who can score and pass well to cutters. What we dont have is a point guard who can be taken seriously on a nightly basis.

How does Roy not fit with Rondo? How is being able to dump it down 10 to 15 times a game not fit Rondo's style of play. He isnt the greatest shooter but he is capable of making shots and he is a hell of a cutter.

In terms of attitude, Rondo wouldn't hurt here either. He knows what it takes to win because he's actually won. He came in to the league and was immediately thrust into a role where he had to captain a ship full of stars players and he did it. He's frustrated because he knows like everyone else knows that the C's run is up and beside him they have no plan for the future.

Put him with Roy, West, Danny and Paul and watch how long our run will last. We will be in direct competition with Chicago, we would rekindle the rivalry with the Knicks and we'd damn sure wouldnt be getting Run out of the gym by Miami.

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 12:46 PM
YES! Gortat! I agree with you. I'd unload Hibbert for Gortat. I would not however want Cousins on this team. He is a buffoon.

But, Cousins is one of the most talented bigs in the league, he will grow up, he just turned 21 last fall. If I had a chance to get him I would make it happen. Even with Rondo's and Cousins attitude, I would wire their mouths shut if I had too.:laugh:

PGisthefuture
02-21-2012, 12:49 PM
I would really like to get Gortat as a backup for Roy. I would not trade Roy for Gortat....

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 12:51 PM
I disagree totally with anyone who says Rondo can't fit in with our team as is currently constructed. Thats a ridiculous statement. We have have shooters, slashers and bigs who can score and pass well to cutters. What we dont have is a point guard who can be taken seriously on a nightly basis.

How does Roy not fit with Rondo? How is being able to dump it down 10 to 15 times a game not fit Rondo's style of play. He isnt the greatest shooter but he is capable of making shots and he is a hell of a cutter.

In terms of attitude, Rondo wouldn't hurt here either. He knows what it takes to win because he's actually won. He came in to the league and was immediately thrust into a role where he had to captain a ship full of stars players and he did it. He's frustrated because he knows like everyone else knows that the C's run is up and beside him they have no plan for the future.

Put him with Roy, West, Danny and Paul and watch how long our run will last. We will be in direct competition with Chicago, we would rekindle the rivalry with the Knicks and we'd damn sure wouldnt be getting Run out of the gym by Miami.

Roy is a deep post player, he doesn't set high screens well at all and his P&R is terrible. This is due to his slow foot speed. Rondo, DC doesn't get to do their full job when Hibbert and Hans work out of the post so much. Not sure why you ask this question when it is the most obvious issue with the team being stagnant.

okroe3
02-21-2012, 12:54 PM
It would just be nice to have a PG that could dish out almost 10 dimes a game and create more shots for other guys. I agree his D is not that good, we could slide in Hill to play a little D. But yeah unless he comes down off of 10.5, no way.

I agree he makes way to much and his D is atrocious, but if he were paid 7-8 million would he available? at the 10.5 is only to much if it prevents us the flexabllity to make other moves. His contract is only good through next season and we could still be flexable enough to be very competitive. If we don't spend our cap space sometime won't we just turn into the Clippers pre 2012?

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 12:54 PM
I would really like to get Gortat as a backup for Roy. I would not trade Roy for Gortat....

Roy would end up being Gortat's backup if Rondo was here.

LA_Confidential
02-21-2012, 12:55 PM
Roy is a deep post player, he doesn't set high screens well at all and his P&R is terrible. This is due to his slow foot speed. Rondo, DC doesn't get to do their full job when Hibbert and Hans work out of the post so much. Not sure why you ask this question when it is the most obvious issue with the team being stagnant.

So you'd much rather have an offensive combo of Rondo and Perkins as opposed to Rondo and Roy?

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 12:58 PM
So you'd much rather have an offensive combo of Rondo and Perkins as opposed to Rondo and Roy?

I never said that, however, I would take Rondo and Gortat in a blink of an eye.

KG was the foot speed in all I said (previously) when Perkins was there.

CableKC
02-21-2012, 12:59 PM
But the more you watch him the more you think he'd be a perfect fit. He's obviously not without his warts but he's so good that you can get past them.
My guess is that Rondo has a "Alpha Dog" mentality while being stuck on a Team with 2 other "Alpha Dogs"...thus the problems that has come up. On the Pacers, I don't think that there would be as much of a problem as he would likely be the "Alpha Dog" alongside the likes of Granger and the rest of the locker room leaders ( Foster? ).

CableKC
02-21-2012, 01:02 PM
I'm not sure what his contract is looking like, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to adding Hinrich. I've always thought his game would be appreciated here in Indy.
He's an $8.1 mil expiring.

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 01:03 PM
My guess is that Rondo has a "Alpha Dog" mentality while being stuck on a Team with 2 other "Alpha Dogs"...thus the problems that has come up. On the Pacers, I don't think that there would be as much of a problem as he would likely be the "Alpha Dog" alongside the likes of Granger and the rest of the locker room leaders ( Foster? ).

I agree, and Rondo's Alpha dogs are getting really old and can't do what they could do on a nightly basis. This season is kicking the Celtics butt more then their age.

Dr. Awesome
02-21-2012, 01:06 PM
Roy would end up being Gortat's backup if Rondo was here.

If Hibbert had Steve Nash giving him the ball instead of Darren Collison, this wouldn't even be a debate.

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 01:08 PM
If Hibbert had Steve Nash giving him the ball instead of Darren Collison, this wouldn't even be a debate.

So Hibbert is in the post with his back to the basket and Nash's bounce pass is going to ignite Hibbert better then Collison's? :laugh:
Neither would have an assists...

The Sleeze
02-21-2012, 01:17 PM
So Hibbert is in the post with his back to the basket and Nash's bounce pass is going to ignite Hibbert better then Collison's? :laugh:
Neither would have an assists...

Nash is really good about coming off high screens going towards the basket and pulling the center's defender off of him for the easy dish to the center.

Collison comes off a screen, picks up his dribble and holds the ball overhead so the whole world knows he's trying to drop it down to Roy.

vnzla81
02-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Nash is really good about coming off high screens going towards the basket and pulling the center's defender off of him for the easy dish to the center.

Collison comes off a screen, picks up his dribble and holds the ball overhead so the whole world knows he's trying to drop it down to Roy.

That last part is so funny but is true :laugh:

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 01:26 PM
Nash is really good about coming off high screens going towards the basket and pulling the center's defender off of him for the easy dish to the center.

Collison comes off a screen, picks up his dribble and holds the ball overhead so the whole world knows he's trying to drop it down to Roy.

Sometimes that is correct, but more times then not his Center or PF is coming off a screen or just has the foot speed to step forward for Nash to pass the ball. It is a double screen that the Suns run and he catches Gortat going to the basket from the foul line or from the post area. Hibbert does not have that 1st and 2nd step foot speed to beat his man in the manner Gortat or a fresh / younger KG can with Rondo.

I'm not trying to say that Collison can do the job, I'm saying to get the most out of a Rondo or Nash you need quicker, more athletic post guys. Hibbert would be counter productive for these 2 PG's.

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 01:31 PM
To a extreme version of opportunity. You don't have a scoring type pg (DC) trying to lob to D. Jordon and Griffin and you don't have CP3 passing the ball to Hibbert in the post.

The Sleeze
02-21-2012, 01:32 PM
Sometimes that is correct, but more times then not his Center or PF is coming off a screen or just has the foot speed to step forward for Nash to pass the ball. It is a double screen that the Suns run and he catches Gortat going to the basket from the foul line or from the post area. Hibbert does not have that 1st and 2nd step foot speed to beat his man in the manner Gortat or a fresh / younger KG can with Rondo.

I'm not trying to say that Collison can do the job, I'm saying to get the most out of a Rondo or Nash you need quicker, more athletic post guys. Hibbert would be counter productive for these 2 PG's.

I agree that a more athletic center (ex. Deandre Jordan) would work better with Nash or Rondo, but they would still be an upgrade over Collison and would get Hibbert more easy buckets.

I do think Roy would need to practice catching quick passes from them because it seems like there are a lot of instances where he fumbles the ball out of bounds.

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 01:35 PM
I agree that a more athletic center (ex. Deandre Jordan) would work better with Nash or Rondo, but they would still be an upgrade over Collison and would get Hibbert more easy buckets.

I do think Roy would need to practice catching quick passes from them because it seems like there are a lot of instances where he fumbles the ball out of bounds.

Might just be better to trade him if Rondo was to be here is all I'm really saying. He could be a piece to getting Rondo in a deal.
I like Roy alot, I'm not hating on him.

Larry Staverman
02-21-2012, 01:40 PM
Rondo is the only asset that Ainge has to trade. He has to hit the mother load if he trades him.

He will want a minimum of George or Hibbert, next years 1st rounder and another rotation player either Collison or Hansbourgh.

Would you still make that trade?

I would pass.

Ratking
02-21-2012, 01:58 PM
I like the idea of trading Hibbert for Rondo, and then trying to get a more athletic big. I love Hibbert, but his play can be pretty inconsistent. His value is probably at its peak. Now is a time where we might be able to package him for someone like Rondo, who would definitely bring this team to another level. I'd love to see Rondo and Roy, but I'd rather give Roy up than Paul. They probably wouldn't trade for anyone else. Having a guy like Rondo will maximize Paul's development.

Those two on the break for the next few years...OMG! Plus the defense!

At the same time, you can't put a price on the spirit that Roy brings to this team. He loves Indy. I just grow concerned about his stamina and quickness at times, especially half-way into the season.

I'd be happy not to do any moves at all, just maybe sign a player or two. But, if there is an opportunity to get Rondo, while keeping PG, DG, West, and Hill...I say we have to take it.

Justin Tyme
02-21-2012, 02:06 PM
So the Lakers wanted Beasley. I guess that makes McBob their consolation prize. At least, they didn't over pay to get him. Going from starter to DNP or little used player has to be hard on McBob. I'm sooo glad the Pacers didn't pay the ridiculous salary to re-sign McBob as so many of his fan club wanted to do.

THANK YOU MR. BIRD!!!! Great decision.

I've thanked Bird twice in the last week. :eek: :-o But he deserved them.

pacer4ever
02-21-2012, 02:09 PM
If Hibbert had Steve Nash giving him the ball instead of Darren Collison, this wouldn't even be a debate.

I disagree because Gortat is a PnR player Hibbert is not even playing with Nash he would struggle in the PnR Hibbert is a post guy he isnt quick enough and doesn't set good enough screens to be a PnR player.

also Beasley and Kobe on the same team ??? That is almost a guaranteed way to get Kobe to demand a trade lol

SycamoreKen
02-21-2012, 02:23 PM
First let me say that I don't think we will get Rondo, but why wouldn't west be in the high post running the pick and roll with hibbert in the low post?

The Sleeze
02-21-2012, 02:33 PM
So the question then becomes,

Who would trade Hibbert/DC/1st for Rondo?

I would have to think about that one and I really like Roy.

McKeyFan
02-21-2012, 02:45 PM
So Hibbert is in the post with his back to the basket and Nash's bounce pass is going to ignite Hibbert better then Collison's? :laugh:


Ummm . . . yeah.

sportfireman
02-21-2012, 02:49 PM
I would much rather go after D. Williams when he expires....

McKeyFan
02-21-2012, 02:49 PM
If we traded Roy for Rondo, could we pick up Kaman to shore up the center for the rest of the season?

McKeyFan
02-21-2012, 02:50 PM
I would much rather go after D. Williams when he expires....
Me too.

But either of them would be extremely difficult to acquire. If the opportunity presents itself, you've got to seriously consider it.

LA_Confidential
02-21-2012, 03:08 PM
First let me say that I don't think we will get Rondo, but why wouldn't west be in the high post running the pick and roll with hibbert in the low post?

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Roy would not be the focus of a pick n roll offense regardless of who the point man is. West has made a career out of the PNR/PNP. Hell we could even run PNP with Danny. Its absolutely absurd for people to think we shouldn't upgrade the point guard spot because Roy is a low post scorer.

So once again, THANK YOU!

docpaul
02-21-2012, 03:16 PM
Roy is a deep post player, he doesn't set high screens well at all and his P&R is terrible. This is due to his slow foot speed. Rondo, DC doesn't get to do their full job when Hibbert and Hans work out of the post so much. Not sure why you ask this question when it is the most obvious issue with the team being stagnant.

What 7'2" C have you seen run P&R effectively? Expecting him to do this makes little sense. That's the job of the 4 or whomever is responsible for the high post. I can see this role for some of the hybrid 4/5s in the NBA, but certainly makes no sense for Hibbs.

imbtyler
02-21-2012, 03:23 PM
Ste-eve Na-ash! *clap clap clapclapclap*

_The_Future_
02-21-2012, 03:31 PM
What about Raymond Felton? Just seen on Twitter he is being benched and Crawford is starting over him.

_The_Future_
02-21-2012, 03:34 PM
"@alanhahn Wow. Raymond Felton has now been demoted to the bench in Portland. Jamal Crawford will start in his place. " via Twitter

RLeWorm
02-21-2012, 03:36 PM
What about Raymond Felton? Just seen on Twitter he is being benched and Crawford is starting over him.

eww no. for some reason he has this lazy look to him. and he is fat

pacergod2
02-21-2012, 03:41 PM
I think people are way too interested in big names. The thing that makes the trade deadline so interesting is getting a player whose situation is bad and turning them into a role player on a team that can make a run. Often those players don't come in the form of a major player outside of the Gasol deal several years ago.

I would be looking at teams like

New Orleans with Kaman, Okafor, and that kid from IU.
Minnesota with Webster and Miller
Sacramento with Jason Thompson or Donte Greene
Houston with J. Hill, C. Lee, and the other younger players they have
Phoenix with Grant Hill and Steve Nash (both expiring)
Washington with Turiaf and Mo Evans (both expiring)
Toronto with Davis, and well anybody not named Derozan

I think there are plenty of teams looking to deal for some value. I like our core and think there are some areas to improve. I think we need to be looking for expirings that will add depth. We have two open roster spots that could facilitate a lot with our cap space. I don't want to do anything hasty, but this would be a great time to take a look at a young player not being used well. Davis or Hill or Thompson come to mind as guys who are athletic and would be PF/C options for us in backup minutes. I still think we should maintain our patience waiting for better options.

BringJackBack
02-21-2012, 03:54 PM
Would it even take DC to get Felton anymore? If not, hell let's bring him in. Here he has an opportunity to become who he was, or better, before getting moved around the league.

McKeyFan
02-21-2012, 04:03 PM
These next 20 or so days are gonna be excruciating.

CableKC
02-21-2012, 04:10 PM
I would really like to get Gortat as a backup for Roy. I would not trade Roy for Gortat....
There is no way that the Suns would trade Gortat without getting back a quality Center. Add in that there is no way that Gortat will want to come to Indy backing up Hibbert. Also, it would make ZERO sense to pay a Center 7+ mil a year to be a backup Center while playing 18 to 20 mpg.

CableKC
02-21-2012, 04:15 PM
These next 20 or so days are gonna be excruciating.
This year is different....although I WOULD LOVE to make a move to improve our Wing and Frontcourt rotations....technically, we don't have to. The important thing to note is that we are in the driver's seat when it comes to making a trade. I'm more excited more than anything.....:dance:

CableKC
02-21-2012, 04:22 PM
Houston with J. Hill, C. Lee, and the other younger players they have
Phoenix with Grant Hill and Steve Nash (both expiring)

I think that the Suns are going to take the same approach with Hill that they will take with Nash...they will ( out of respect ) let Hill decide his fate. I wouldn't be surprised if both of them finish it out in Phoenix and then go on the FA in the offseason.

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 06:08 PM
What 7'2" C have you seen run P&R effectively? Expecting him to do this makes little sense. That's the job of the 4 or whomever is responsible for the high post. I can see this role for some of the hybrid 4/5s in the NBA, but certainly makes no sense for Hibbs.

I never said to make him do this.

Your exactly right and with an aged ACL rebound in West and Hans with his play is all the reason why I said if Rondo was to come here then Hibbert and Hans should be looked at in the trade to acquire Rondo, so Rondo can be used to his full potential. To make his team as good as possible. You don't trade for a Rondo and not make the team to fit around him or it's a waste. As I said earlier, to get his full potential it would be nice to see a Gortat Center and Cousins PF, both 6'11" and both possess great foot speed. They can both do everything required by the PG and the Coach. The team is not limited at all, which would allow Rondo to run the floor to it's max and he is fully capable of doing so.

Pacersalltheway10
02-21-2012, 06:37 PM
I'm happy with what we got right now. Maybe add another key bench player by absorbing their contract if the opportunity presents itself.

Justin Tyme
02-21-2012, 06:40 PM
So the question then becomes,

Who would trade Hibbert/DC/1st for Rondo?

I would have to think about that one and I really like Roy.

2 startes and a 1st! I can't see Bird even remotely interested in this deal. You fill one hole at PG at create another at center.

PASS!!

TheDavisBrothers
02-21-2012, 06:43 PM
I never said to make him do this.

Your exactly right and with an aged ACL rebound in West and Hans with his play is all the reason why I said if Rondo was to come here then Hibbert and Hans should be looked at in the trade to acquire Rondo, so Rondo can be used to his full potential. To make his team as good as possible. You don't trade for a Rondo and not make the team to fit around him or it's a waste. As I said earlier, to get his full potential it would be nice to see a Gortat Center and Cousins PF, both 6'11" and both possess great foot speed. They can both do everything required by the PG and the Coach. The team is not limited at all, which would allow Rondo to run the floor to it's max and he is fully capable of doing so.

Why don't we just trade the whole team while we're at it? Let's wheel and deal like this is fantasy basketball...

Anthem
02-21-2012, 06:44 PM
I'm sooo glad the Pacers didn't pay the ridiculous salary to re-sign McBob as so many of his fan club wanted to do.
What? Sure, MRose thought he'd get MLE money, but he was all alone. Most of us thought he'd be willing to sign with the Pacers in the 2-3mil range.

J7F
02-21-2012, 06:46 PM
2 startes and a 1st! I can't see Bird even remotely interested in this deal. You fill one hole at PG at create another at center.

PASS!!

And it doesn't help fill the need for a good B/U PG & C either... And I'm pretty sure we don't have the cap space to absorb Kaman's contract after that trade to replace Big Roy...

xIndyFan
02-21-2012, 06:49 PM
. . . THANK YOU MR. BIRD!!!! Great decision.

I've thanked Bird twice in the last week. :eek: :-o But he deserved them.

i thought the very same thing when i was reading your post. :laugh:

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 06:50 PM
Why don't we just trade the whole team while we're at it? Let's wheel and deal like this is fantasy basketball...

I'd rather acquire a couple for bench guys and picks. Not sure why you want to do that.

CableKC
02-21-2012, 07:06 PM
I only want to make a trade that would replace a Core Player without losing any of the other 5 Core Players, Hansbrough or Foster.

I'd only take on Rondo if it cost us a 1st+DC+Capspace...anything more..like any of the core Players...I'd pass. I'd possibly consider an additional 1st...if we could get back some 2nd round picks.

LA_Confidential
02-21-2012, 07:10 PM
I only want to make a trade that would replace a Core Player without losing any of the other 5 Core Players, Hansbrough or Foster.

I'd only take on Rondo if it cost us a 1st+DC+Capspace...anything more..like any of the core Players...I'd pass. I'd possibly consider an additional 1st...if we could get back some 2nd round picks.

I agree but if I were forced to include Tyler then his bags would have been packed yesterday.

TheDavisBrothers
02-21-2012, 07:17 PM
I'd rather acquire a couple for bench guys and picks. Not sure why you want to do that.

Wow people are terrible at picking up sarcasm on here...
I think it's pretty sad that u have to blatantly point out whenever u r being sarcastic on here...

Pacer Fan
02-21-2012, 09:54 PM
Wow people are terrible at picking up sarcasm on here...
I think it's pretty sad that u have to blatantly point out whenever u r being sarcastic on here...

I make my sarcasm green, might wanna try it some time! :)

Haywoode Workman
02-22-2012, 12:16 AM
this isn't 1st grade jesus christ. green font....i never

PacerGuy
02-22-2012, 09:45 AM
I agree but if I were forced to include Tyler then his bags would have been packed yesterday.

DC/Tyler/1st for Rondo/JO.

DC & Tyler will both need new deals in the near future, & combined will match or exceed Rondo money. DC is a mid-lower end starter, & Tyler is a complimentort bench player, Rondo is a top end starter. JO expires, (retires a Pacer, his stated wish & IMO a nice story), so the deal cost us +/- 6 Mil in cap space next summer but not much long term. If the Pacers want EJ, or another higher $ player, a S&T would likeluy occurr anyway, so the +/-8 mil in remaining cap space is helpful in taking back more salery then sending out, though after DC & Hans are gone we do not have much to offer other then Danny.
Roy/West/George/EJ/Rondo - w/ Hill as a 6th man is pretty good.

TheDavisBrothers
02-22-2012, 09:59 AM
DC/Tyler/1st for Rondo/JO.

DC & Tyler will both need new deals in the near future, & combined will match or exceed Rondo money. DC is a mid-lower end starter, & Tyler is a complimentort bench player, Rondo is a top end starter. JO expires, (retires a Pacer, his stated wish & IMO a nice story), so the deal cost us +/- 6 Mil in cap space next summer but not much long term. If the Pacers want EJ, or another higher $ player, a S&T would likeluy occurr anyway, so the +/-8 mil in remaining cap space is helpful in taking back more salery then sending out, though after DC & Hans are gone we do not have much to offer other then Danny.
Roy/West/George/EJ/Rondo - w/ Hill as a 6th man is pretty good.

That sounds great for the Pacers! Let's do it right away!

Oh what a second... maybe Boston isn't stupid enough to make such a terrible trade!

Did you ever consider why in the hell Boston would ever accept such a bad trade? I swear some of these trades that get thrown up here don't even consider the other teams...

Justin Tyme
02-22-2012, 10:27 AM
this isn't 1st grade "jesus christ".


Is that really necessary or appropriate?

dgranger17
02-22-2012, 10:35 AM
Is that really necessary or appropriate?

Haywoode meant... Jesus Christ. His shift key isn't working today, I apologize for him.

If we could get Rondo without giving up PG, Danny, West, Hibbert, Hill, Lance, Price, or Foster I'd be thrilled. I highly doubt that is possible though.

Justin Tyme
02-22-2012, 10:38 AM
[QUOTE=PacerGuy;1380049]

DC/Tyler/1st for Rondo/JO. /QUOTE]


JO a Pacer again is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! People need to understand the total dislike between Bird and JO. Not sure which has a better chance of happening, Bird bringing JO back as a Pacer, Bird hiring Lamibeer as a coach, or a snowball in he11.

Dgreenwell3
02-22-2012, 10:41 AM
"@alanhahn Wow. Raymond Felton has now been demoted to the bench in Portland. Jamal Crawford will start in his place. " via Twitter

Whaaaa?!?!

Justin Tyme
02-22-2012, 10:41 AM
Haywoode meant... Jesus Christ. His shift key isn't working today, I apologize for him.


I'm not amused by your rather poor attempt at levity.

PacerGuy
02-22-2012, 10:58 AM
[QUOTE=PacerGuy;1380049]
People need to understand the total dislike between Bird and JO. Not sure which has a better chance of happening, Bird bringing JO back as a Pacer, Bird hiring Lamibeer as a coach, or a snowball in he11.

I realize that, that's why I stated it would be a "nice" story not a realilistic one, but if it landed him Rondo w/o giving Danny/Paul/Roy then he might be able to swollow some pride for the rest of the season.

TheDavisBrothers
02-22-2012, 11:08 AM
Is that really necessary or appropriate?

I'm sorry if this offends you, but don't you think you are a bit hypersensitive? This is the Internet after all not church...

LA_Confidential
02-22-2012, 12:03 PM
That sounds great for the Pacers! Let's do it right away!

Oh what a second... maybe Boston isn't stupid enough to make such a terrible trade!

Did you ever consider why in the hell Boston would ever accept such a bad trade? I swear some of these trades that get thrown up here don't even consider the other teams...

Hell, we can throw in an extra 1st rounder if you'd like but. That's as far as I think the pacers would possibly go to land a player like Rondo. If Boston hangs up then oh we'll. We've got money to blow and as they say, Money Talks!

Justin Tyme
02-22-2012, 12:34 PM
[QUOTE=Justin Tyme;1380083]

I realize that, that's why I stated it would be a "nice" story not a realilistic one, but if it landed him Rondo w/o giving Danny/Paul/Roy then he might be able to swollow some pride for the rest of the season.


I'm not sure Bird can swallow his pride. I have always gotten the feeling Bird is so set that he'd cut his nose off to spite his face if it meant he had to swallow his pride. JMOAA

Justin Tyme
02-22-2012, 01:14 PM
I'm sorry if this offends you, but don't you think you are a bit hypersensitive? This is the Internet after all not church...


No, just true to myself and my belief. A belief I don't offend anyone by expressing on PD, and I expect the same by not having to read Christ's/God's name used in the negative.

PS, I'm so tired of hearing the statement "this is the internet" like it makes whatever one says acceptable.

graphic-er
02-22-2012, 01:22 PM
No, just true to myself and my belief. A belief I don't offend anyone by expressing on PD, and I expect the same by not having to read Christ's/God's name used in the negative.

PS, I'm so tired of hearing the statement "this is the internet" like it makes whatever one says acceptable.

Sounds like a personal problem.
You can not go about your daily life expecting people not to offend you with their casual speech.

WV-Colt
02-22-2012, 01:50 PM
No, just true to myself and my belief. A belief I don't offend anyone by expressing on PD, and I expect the same by not having to read Christ's/God's name used in the negative.

PS, I'm so tired of hearing the statement "this is the internet" like it makes whatever one says acceptable.

how 'bout you just turn the other cheek. WWJD?

Mr.ThunderMakeR
02-22-2012, 02:06 PM
The Pacers are not getting Rondo without giving up Roy or PG. IMO I think the Celtics would be WAY more interested in PG.

Gamble1
02-22-2012, 02:22 PM
how 'bout you just turn the other cheek. WWJD?
Do you know the difference between a slap on the right cheek and one from the left?

Point is we need to respect one another and if JT asks for consideration than I think we need to give it to him. Thats apart of being neighborily..NO

2minutes twoa
02-22-2012, 03:49 PM
I say we stick to talking basketball! The one thing we all agree on and never ever argue about! (Please read the last sentence as if it were in green)

Steagles
02-22-2012, 04:45 PM
I'm not interested in Rondo unless we keep our starters/core (no trading Roy or PG). Draft picks and cap space galore. Sometimes however, the best move is none at all.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

OlBlu
02-22-2012, 05:56 PM
I say we stick to talking basketball! The one thing we all agree on and never ever argue about! (Please read the last sentence as if it were in green)

I agree with you. I was forced to come here from a site that was controled by Pacers Nazis who would not tolerate any view that disagree with their own. I like the fact that there is very little name calling and other garbage on this site. Three people on that other site refuse to let me post on that site and another one they have formed. I still read it and comment once in a while but they call the moderators and have me suspened every time I comment. I am not without sin here, I got caught up in the name calling and I threw back as strongly as was thrown at me.... But censorship is a Nazi type of thing and those three don't understand that. They proved me correct.......:cool:

billbradley
02-22-2012, 06:14 PM
Wilson Chandler is in Toronto, meeting with the Raptors about a possible pairing. Chandler would be a huge piece for the Raptors to add long term, and would fill the gaping hole at the small forward position.

Chandler is restricted as Denver has the option to match any contract accepted. He hasn’t ruled out re-signing with Denver, he’s just pursuing other options. More to come.

http://www.rantsports.com/toronto-raptors/2012/02/22/wilson-chandler-to-toronto/

Justin Tyme
02-22-2012, 06:38 PM
http://www.rantsports.com/toronto-raptors/2012/02/22/wilson-chandler-to-toronto/


I'm truly surprised! I thought it was pretty much cut n dry Chandler would re-sign with Denver. I'd really like the Pacers do a S&T to get Chandler. He's a player I feel could really help the Pacers now and in the years to come.

MrHale
02-22-2012, 06:44 PM
Whaaaa?!?!

He played well off the bench last night, dont expect felton to be on the trade market anytime soon

vnzla81
02-22-2012, 06:49 PM
Chandler to me is going to get overpay and won't be able to live up to his contract.

Pacer Fan
02-22-2012, 06:50 PM
Chandler needs starter minutes, he is to good to come off the bench. Don't see him coming here unless Danny is traded and I don't see that happening at the moment. Hibbert, West, Chandler, George, DWill looks good. I wouldn't complain.