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vnzla81
02-14-2012, 10:18 PM
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/12/129156051954645220.jpg

NapTonius Monk
02-14-2012, 10:24 PM
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/12/129156051954645220.jpg

:lmao:

PacerPenguins
02-14-2012, 10:27 PM
i can tell u this....were not as good as everyone thought...we even here on PD overrated our team way to much

imbtyler
02-14-2012, 10:30 PM
Granger sprained his ankle? Awesome.

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t64bm_bulat.jpg

[/green]

All right, "King" George. Prove me right and show that you can run that SF spot, and the team, tomorrow night against Cleveland.

I'm so worried.

vnzla81
02-14-2012, 10:30 PM
i can tell u this....were not as good as everyone thought...we even here on PD overrated our team way to much

You think? nah.

Naptown_Seth
02-14-2012, 10:34 PM
i can tell u this....were not as good as everyone thought...we even here on PD overrated our team way to much
Well they were winning against teams in this range until a few days ago. Then all of the sudden we have a total nosedive.

How do you go from a road heavy schedule against many good opponents where you never lose back to back games, to losing 4 in a row where you are at home most of the time.

I would have rated them terrible if they had been doing this all along. I know they lost Hill, but the starters have been taking their lumps too. And Hibbert since the AS announcement...it's like a curse or something, it's dramatic how wildly his fortunes have changed.

Pacer Fan
02-14-2012, 10:35 PM
105-90 is a lie of what the game truly was!

MrPreGame
02-14-2012, 10:36 PM
The true leaders on this team need to show themselves now. If the team spirals downward like last year I say we need to start thinking about making a few major moves.

imbtyler
02-14-2012, 10:36 PM
By the way, if this game doesn't prove that we need a better back-up PG and C, then I don't know how else to prove it. Juice and Feisty Foster can not do this job sufficiently, compared to what we can get (yet won't).

At this point, depending on Granger's sprain, I suggest we honestly look into JR Smith and/or Wilson Chandler, if we can. I would go into prospects from Orlando/Minnesota to appease the Pritchard rumors, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

I am seriously worried about this team now. We have to adjust, and we have to do it now. This Granger injury should be a wake-up call to Bird to stop sitting on his *** and make something happen very soon to prevent a bloodbath.

Pacer Fan
02-14-2012, 10:43 PM
Lebron was a beast...Pacers never had a chance!

doctor-h
02-14-2012, 10:49 PM
Pacers have had obvious weaknesses all year and most people chose to ignore them. Now other teams are exposing them. Roy Hibbert should give back his all star invite. He never was all star material and never will be. He is just a pretty good center in a league where there aren't too many. He should be embarrassed tonight. Granger goes out with what looked like a minor sprain and doesn't return. What ever happened to taping it up and playing. You got to be more competitive than that. I suspect he didn't want to be embarrassed. This team doesn't need another role player it needs a true star and a real leader who won't settle for efforts like this. Another full house and they were treated to terrible effort. People will wonder why we don't fill the arena after efforts like this, are you kidding me. Their 3rd game on the road in 3 nights while we have been home waiting for 2 days and they have all the fight and energy, it says something about the true character of our team.

imbtyler
02-14-2012, 10:49 PM
Lebron was a beast...Pacers never had a chance!

http://www.letstalkdatingonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/get-out.jpg
[/green]

I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. LeBronze really did what he did tonight. As did a lot of our guys, in a bad way. If we play even remotely similar to this tomorrow night, with or without Granger or Hill, then Bird better blow this ***** up before I do. If we don't come out tomorrow night and prove we deserve to be where we are, then we need some major changes in some department. This is getting embarrassing. Where did our Pacers go?

MiaDragon
02-14-2012, 10:54 PM
I really REALLY want to know why we decided to stop playing defense.

BlueNGold
02-14-2012, 10:56 PM
This team is smash mouth. Only thing, it's our mouth that's getting smashed.

Pacer Fan
02-14-2012, 10:56 PM
I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. LeBronze really did what he did tonight. As did a lot of our guys, in a bad way. If we play even remotely similar to this tomorrow night, with or without Granger or Hill, then Bird better blow this ***** up before I do. If we don't come out tomorrow night and prove we deserve to be where we are, then we need some major changes in some department. This is getting embarrassing. Where did our Pacers go?

It is the Cavs, even if Pacers beat them by double digits, doesn't prove a whole lot. However, if Pacers lose, it will prove a whole lot!

Naptown_Seth
02-14-2012, 10:57 PM
105-90 is a lie of what the game truly was!
"Game" is a lie of what that truly was.



Crime stats in the BLF area just went through the roof after that "event" got recorded into the books. Not only did 10-12 men just get killed, but several dreams were also murdered. It's Nightmare on Elm St and James is playing Freddie (to paraphrase N Minaj)

rock747
02-14-2012, 10:58 PM
Atleast this game brought our attendance numbers up.... but maybe brought it down for future games.

Pacer Fan
02-14-2012, 10:58 PM
I really REALLY want to know why we decided to stop playing defense.

Just a hunch here, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Refs...hmmm

CableKC
02-14-2012, 10:58 PM
We lost the game before Granger went down...so no excuses...we just aren't that good now.



I will continue to say this until Bird and the FO does something about it....I still don't think that we have any of the necessary depth to truly compete against any Team that we will likely face in the Playoffs. Before any of you suggest that I need to take a :chillpill:.....our defense and defense has been very inconsistent since the Mavs game. Every Team has stretches during a game where parts or ALL of the Starting lineup struggles. Prior to GH going down.....our 2nd unit was able to step up when the Starting lineup couldn't get it going. Missing GH is part of the reason why we aren't doing good....but an inconsistent Starting lineup and 2nd unit ( as of late ) isn't helping our cause at all. With GH down...it forces Vogel to mix and match the lineups while forcing him to play more of the Starters way more minutes than he should. The end-result is what we have seen over the last 5 games where we went 1-4. This doesn't mean that I think the return of GH will get us back into the way that we have played prior to him going down. It will certainly help because it will return the Team to some normalcy...but the problem will remain where I do not think that we have enough consistent production from the 2nd Unit to truly compete in the Playoffs ( unless we get lucky ). To be clear, I'm not putting ALL of the blame any individual on the roster....how poorly we have played is a result of the Starting Unit not playing up to par while showing that our 2nd unit isn't as good as we wanted to believe. Think about this....if the Team is only as good as GH being in the lineup....how strong is the proverbial "Chain" when the entire lineup falls apart when one of the Players goes down? I really hope that this is something that the FO recognizes and addresses before the Trade deadline.



Before our recent "rough patch", I believed that we were capable of beating ANY Team ( or at least force them to really "earn their win" ). But given what we have seen over the last couple of games, I now believe that we are back at where we were at the end of last season....a Playoff Bubble Team that plays inconsistently on the offensive and defensive end that won't likely make it past the 1st round of the Playoffs.

MiaDragon
02-14-2012, 10:59 PM
Pacers have had obvious weaknesses all year and most people chose to ignore them. Now other teams are exposing them. Roy Hibbert should give back his all star invite. He never was all star material and never will be. He is just a pretty good center in a league where there aren't too many. He should be embarrassed tonight. Granger goes out with what looked like a minor sprain and doesn't return. What ever happened to taping it up and playing. You got to be more competitive than that. I suspect he didn't want to be embarrassed. This team doesn't need another role player it needs a true star and a real leader who won't settle for efforts like this. Another full house and they were treated to terrible effort. People will wonder why we don't fill the arena after efforts like this, are you kidding me. Their 3rd game on the road in 3 nights while we have been home waiting for 2 days and they have all the fight and energy, it says something about the true character of our team.


The effort has been simply pathetic, no fight just fumbling through the motions waiting for the 4th Q to end. Its time for Frank to earn his paycheck and right the ship.

odeez
02-14-2012, 10:59 PM
Yeah, to say that was tough game to watch, would be an understatement. But the best part was when Juan Howard fouled Lance hard late in the game and got a tech, then got thrown out of the game with the 2nd one. At least there was a little fire there, wish we had shown some earlier. The first qtr was a nightmare to say the least. Beginning to feel like this could spiral, we have to come out tomorrow and beat Cleveland!

presto123
02-14-2012, 11:00 PM
If a loss like this can't get the team to show some pride and play hard I don't know what will. It gets so old tuning in every game and not knowing which Pacer team will show up from an effort standpoint. Where did our D go? Vogel needs to show this game tape to the team before every game. Not to embarrass them but to show them how to play D. Miami put on a clinic tonight on how to play D. EVERYBODY helps everybody else out on the defensive side. I really do think that quick start and good record went to the team's head. Maybe if they get stomped enough now they will wake up.

imbtyler
02-14-2012, 11:01 PM
Pacers have had obvious weaknesses all year and most people chose to ignore them. Now other teams are exposing them. Roy Hibbert should give back his all star invite. He never was all star material and never will be. He is just a pretty good center in a league where there aren't too many. He should be embarrassed tonight. Granger goes out with what looked like a minor sprain and doesn't return. What ever happened to taping it up and playing. You got to be more competitive than that. I suspect he didn't want to be embarrassed. This team doesn't need another role player it needs a true star and a real leader who won't settle for efforts like this. Another full house and they were treated to terrible effort. People will wonder why we don't fill the arena after efforts like this, are you kidding me. Their 3rd game on the road in 3 nights while we have been home waiting for 2 days and they have all the fight and energy, it says something about the true character of our team.

I hated "thanking" this post, but most of it is true. I think Early Season Hibbert deserved his All-Star invitation over any other center in the East, but he's not showing he deserves it now. I don't want to believe that Granger pussied out, but it wouldn't totally surprise me. He's definitely not our leader, nor our star, nor has he truly earned it. West, Hill, and Hibbert lead more than he does, and George is going into that role fine, thanks to his character. But Granger just doesn't have it in him. It's been said dozens and dozens of times: he's the Pippen, not the Jordan.

Tonight was absolutely disappointing. Giving up nearly 30 at some point. Losing our leading scorer to a sprain. Fighting back to within 15 by the time the game ends with Juice, Lancelot, Inferno, Lou, and Papa Smurf on the court? What kind of bizarro world is this? Where are the Pacers of lore? The ones who were going to save us from terrors of adversity? Where are they and where have they been?

They better have gotten their flight home rerouted to Cleveland a little early. Because if we don't show up at 120%, there won't be any compensation for the loss of Hill and Granger.

Ownagedood
02-14-2012, 11:01 PM
For those of you that were able to watch it and suffered thru it all... I was out all night at a meeting..

What the heck happened?? They are good, but man.. disheartening to see we were getting DESTROYED at home by Miami again. Down 29 at the half?? Tho they ARE the most talented team in the league.. ouch.

Also what happened to granger if 1st quarter?

Dr. Hibbert
02-14-2012, 11:01 PM
Honestly, a lot of this falls on Vogel too, guys, whether we want to admit it or not. Yeah, Hibbert/Granger/Paul George/DC/virtually everyone deserves blame. But this is a dumb basketball team. This is a soft basketball team. This is not, at the present time, a well-coached basketball team.

Vogel has just as much to answer for as these players. Enough of the "gee, shucks, we'll get to work and get 'em next time" routine. This where Vogel needs to make a stand and let it be known that this soft, stupid brand of basketball will not be tolerated.

Asher99
02-14-2012, 11:02 PM
We have enough scoring depth that we can beat up on bad teams and will beat some of the good teams here and there when we have someone go off but we're not a good "team". We're not going see the second round until we figure out some roles and get away from whatever this offense is we're attempting to run and get back to the game we played to start the year.

When Frank had the big change the offense practice we had a 9-3 record with one of the losses without Danny, Hill and Tyler for the 4th on the road. Since that change we're 8-8 giving up way more PPG.

BlueNGold
02-14-2012, 11:02 PM
I think the Washington Generals would be offended by this thread...

Ownagedood
02-14-2012, 11:04 PM
Also, if there is any good in this.. look at Miami's recent games... they are DESTROYING ppl, just like tonight. We aren't near the first victims and won't be the last. They are hella good. :(

Naptown_Seth
02-14-2012, 11:04 PM
Having said that, let's slow the roll on "blow it up". Things were easily this bad when Gnome (with me joining for DAL/HOU) did the OKC/DAL/HOU set of games last year, remember.

We were all hyped about the change to Vogel and how the team responded, and for our efforts and money we got to see by far the worst stretch of 3 games by the Vogel Pacers so far (including this 4 game run). But then a month or so later there they were playing the Bulls tough in the playoffs.

Maybe this is something that just goes though them for some reason. You've got to give them more than 2 days to shake it off.

Two days from now all the hyper-travel and tough games start to die off. Let's give them a chance to recover first before jumping off the wagon.

Isaac
02-14-2012, 11:05 PM
It can be analyzed to death, but I think the answer is pretty simple and some guys have hit the nail on the head in this thread:

We stopped focusing on defense and started focusing on offense.

MiaDragon
02-14-2012, 11:07 PM
Just a hunch here, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Refs...hmmm

Did they also play in the last 5 games against us?:rolleyes: Norris freaking Cole dropped 20 on 8 of 12.

littlerichard54
02-14-2012, 11:11 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that D.C.'s defense is **** poor?

DaveP63
02-14-2012, 11:13 PM
Gutless. Feckless. No effort. No energy. George Hill doesn't fix this. Granger's ankle doesn't fix this.

vnzla81
02-14-2012, 11:13 PM
It can be analyzed to death, but I think the answer is pretty simple and some guys have hit the nail on the head in this thread:

We stopped focusing on defense and started focusing on offense.

When have we ever focus on offense? we are one of the worst offensive teams in the NBA for a reason.

BillS
02-14-2012, 11:14 PM
We stopped focusing on defense and started focusing on offense.

I beg your pardon?

The Heat scored right around their average, not particularly an indication of a Pacer defensive debacle.

The Pacers shot what, like 26% in the 1st quarter? If that is focusing on offense I'm a 7' center from Georgetown.


-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums (http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.newnessdevelopments.forums)

vnzla81
02-14-2012, 11:15 PM
Having said that, let's slow the roll on "blow it up". Things were easily this bad when Gnome (with me joining for DAL/HOU) did the OKC/DAL/HOU set of games last year, remember.

We were all hyped about the change to Vogel and how the team responded, and for our efforts and money we got to see by far the worst stretch of 3 games by the Vogel Pacers so far (including this 4 game run). But then a month or so later there they were playing the Bulls tough in the playoffs.

Maybe this is something that just goes though them for some reason. You've got to give them more than 2 days to shake it off.

Two days from now all the hyper-travel and tough games start to die off. Let's give them a chance to recover first before jumping off the wagon.

I'm not jumping off the wagon but as Larry said last week "we have a lot of work to do"

imbtyler
02-14-2012, 11:15 PM
Having said that, let's slow the roll on "blow it up". Things were easily this bad when Gnome (with me joining for DAL/HOU) did the OKC/DAL/HOU set of games last year, remember.

We were all hyped about the change to Vogel and how the team responded, and for our efforts and money we got to see by far the 3 worst stretch of games by the Vogel Pacers so far (including this 4 game run). But then a month or so later there they were playing the Bulls tough in the playoffs.

Maybe this is something that just goes though them for some reason. You've got to give them more than 2 days to shake it off.

Two days from now all the hyper-travel and tough games start to die off. Let's give them a chance to recover first before jumping off the wagon.

I'm not jumping off any wagon, nor will I ever. The problem is, I know we can kill it, and I know we can give teams like the Heat and Bulls runs for their respective moneys, but we need to pull out of this. At this point, we need that one-wish-per-season miracle; like Paul George instantly maturing in his big moment of Granger-replacing glory, and taking over the next few games; or Hibbert suddenly putting up 20/15 games until the All-Star break; or even Lancelot pulling his own style of Lansanity and proving that Bird knows what he's talking about.

The good thing about this Heat game is that we just played (and yet, lost miserably to) the strongest, most athletic, most talented, and hardest team we'll have to play before the All-Star break. A nice five-game win streak leading up to it would be nice, especially because the second half of this season starts out rougher than sandpapered butt cheek: Warriors, Hornets (not so bad), Bulls, Hawks, Heat, Magic, Blazers, Sixers, Knicks twice, and Clippers; and all but the last three are before the trade deadline, so there's a chance our roster won't change until we're already 1-7 after the All-Star break.

I know we can do better than this, and this stretch of games should be relatively easy, even perhaps without our leading scorer in Granger. We just need a miracle.

Jon Theodore
02-14-2012, 11:24 PM
Wow, where to begin. The casual fans are all done with the Pacers, only us die hards will remain.

Full house against the heat and we played like scared little girls. I am embarassed as a fan. I have never seen a game decided in the first five minutes.

The refs were absolutely absurd, but that did not affect the outcome at all.

I took a large group of my family to this game, to say I was embarrassed would be an understatement. I dropped close to a G on the pacers between Denver and Mia games. I'd have been better off taking it to a roulette table. I'm taking a break from this team for a while, hope they prove me wrong....but unless we make roster changes, we are a 8th seed team that got lucky during a lockout season.

imbtyler
02-14-2012, 11:27 PM
Wow, where to begin. The casual fans are all done with the Pacers, only us die hards will remain.

Full house against the heat and we played like scared little girls. I am embarassed as a fan. I have never seen a game decided in the first five minutes.

The refs were absolutely absurd, but that did not affect the outcome at all.

I took a large group of my family to this game, to say I was embarrassed would be an understatement. I dropped close to a G on the pacers between Denver and Mia games. I'd have been better off taking it to a roulette table. I'm taking a break from this team for a while, hope they prove me wrong.... but unless we make roster changes, we are a 8th seed team that got lucky during a lockout season.

I hope they prove you wrong, too. The last thing they need is to lose our support under adversity. I understand your situation; spending that much money, and sacrificing that much, just for a team to disappoint and embarrass you is heartbreaking. But don't give up yet. We're going to need your fanship in the next two games.

MiaDragon
02-14-2012, 11:28 PM
Wow, where to begin. The casual fans are all done with the Pacers, only us die hards will remain.

Full house against the heat and we played like scared little girls. I am embarassed as a fan. I have never seen a game decided in the first five minutes.

The refs were absolutely absurd, but that did not affect the outcome at all.

I took a large group of my family to this game, to say I was embarrassed would be an understatement. I dropped close to a G on the pacers between Denver and Mia games. I'd have been better off taking it to a roulette table. I'm taking a break from this team for a while, hope they prove me wrong....bu unless we make roster changes, we are a 8th seed team that got lucky during a lockout season.


They got me to for close to 500 with the first Miami debacle. Ill suck up what I paid to get NBA league pass but I don't see me going to another game unless I see some drastic changes.

MiaDragon
02-14-2012, 11:29 PM
I think we can put to rest the fear of "messing with our chemistry" by adding more players. We NEED some new blood our current roster is not getting it done.

Asher99
02-14-2012, 11:32 PM
The Heat scored right around their average

They had 95 on the board with 10+ left to go and called off the dogs and scored just 10 points the final 10:23 of the game.

crunk-juice
02-14-2012, 11:37 PM
muahaha, the pessimists shall rise to power again

"we told you so"

Pacer Fan
02-14-2012, 11:40 PM
muahaha, the pessimists shall rise to power again

"we told you so"

No, Reality is looking very Real, unfortunately!

presto123
02-14-2012, 11:52 PM
They had 95 on the board with 10+ left to go and called off the dogs and scored just 10 points the final 10:23 of the game.

I was going to post the same thing. We played horrible defense. Heat could have won by 40 if they wanted to.

CJ Jones
02-14-2012, 11:55 PM
I agree with the Dr. Hibbert... we looked like a poorly coached team tonight. Actually, we've been out coached a lot lately. How did LeBron know every play we were running? He was calling our plays out before we even started em. They switched everything, and we had no clue what to do. Frustrating...

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/cry/grand/mrt_cry_gif.gif (http://www.gifsforum.com/gif/24713)
More cry here (http://www.gifsforum.com/listofgifs/gallery/cry)

Hate to lose like that, but I must say it was a pleasure to watch the King do his thing.

Mr_Smith
02-15-2012, 12:00 AM
Miami is a great team.

Ace E.Anderson
02-15-2012, 12:02 AM
I feel like the lack of designated roles for each player is really starting to hurt this team. We seem to have zero cohesion or strategy on both offense and defense at times. It's nice that everyone can do a lil bit of everything, but these players need to know their role on the team, and concentrate on doing that well.

I feel like Most teams (especially good/great teams) have clearly defined roles for their rotational players. They know who're the focal points offensively, what is the strategy defensively, who's job is it to do the dirty work, etc. We dont seem to know any of those things whatsoever. We just run the same crappy p/r w/ DC, while spending the first 7 mins figuring out who has the hot hand. Meanwhile if nobody is hot, we are suddenly down by 6-8 (or 15 against MIA)

I know this is a lockout, shortened season but these are still pros

Sandman21
02-15-2012, 12:03 AM
Look at the bright side, evidentally Juwan Howard heard my really bad old person jokes from Area55, because he started melting down almost immediately afterwords. Me asking him how the game was played with the peach baskets was evidentally the final straw..... :D

Justin Tyme
02-15-2012, 12:40 AM
And Hibbert since the AS announcement...it's like a curse or something, it's dramatic how wildly his fortunes have changed.


It's like I'm an Allstar now, so no need to play as I was b4 I became an Allstar. Just give me the max contract now.

The Hibbert vs Gasol thread should be revived.

graphic-er
02-15-2012, 12:47 AM
Well Pacers didn't do themselves any favors for future attendance. I can't believe they would put up such a craptacular performance.

Not enough looks for Roy or West early on. They need to establish the low post every game.

I thought Danny made a great play on the ball when he was whistled on Lebron in the first qtr. I don't know how the refs could call that a shooting foul, he never went into a shooting motion. Not to mention the 3rd quarter Travel on the fast break. How does the ref not see those steps? Hell Quinn Buckner didn't even see it. (Watching the replay now.)
How about Norris Cole pulling down on Hansbrough's jersey after his shot was blocked to fake a foul call. Terrible Officiating. Its very hard to beat the Miami Heat when you have 3 officials suffering from Heat stroke. I'm surprised Tyler didn't spit in Coles face while he was on the ground.

I think they should go out and sign JR Smith pronto. We need a proven offensive threat. Maybe that will allow the rest of our team to refocus on D and not focus so much on Offense.

Also I can't wait for Haywoode's Pacemate photos from tonight, they had those sexy black cabaret outfits on.

Sandman21
02-15-2012, 12:48 AM
I thought Danny made a great play on the ball when he was whistled on Lebron in the first qtr. I don't know how the refs could call that a shooting foul, he never went into a shooting motion. Not to mention the 3rd quarter Travel on the fast break. How does the ref not see those steps? Hell Quinn Buckner didn't even see it. (Watching the replay now.)
How about Norris Cole pulling down on Hansbrough's jersey after his shot was blocked to fake a foul call. Terrible Officiating. Its very hard to beat the Miami Heat when you have 3 officials suffering from Heat stroke. I'm surprised Tyler didn't spit in Coles face while he was on the ground.

8 on 5, what do you expect? Funny how the officiating seemed to get more even after the Big 3 were sat down for the night.

Nuntius
02-15-2012, 12:48 AM
So, if we bounce back and win the next 5 games all the guys that are ready to blow it up now will start hoping on the bandwagon again? :-p

Guys, let's be real. Yes, the performance was disheartening. Yes, our starters played bad. But don't go overboard. We were playing versus the Heat. One of the best teams in the NBA and also one of the teams that we do not match up well against. A loss was the most probable outcome.

I don't know if some of you had overrated our team. I stand by my original expectations of 3rd to 6th seed.

Of course, if I see us dropping any games in the next 5 I may start panicking as well. There's no need to do this yet, though. We lost to the Heat not to the Wizards.

imawhat
02-15-2012, 12:54 AM
What did we do to **** off Miami?

I'd love to see the post game locker room atmosphere. They all better be on the floor unable to get up, because if I saw one ounce of energy, there'd be a lot of windsprints tonight.

Dr. Hibbert
02-15-2012, 12:54 AM
Well Pacers didn't do themselves any favors for future attendance. I can't believe they would put up such a craptacular performance.

Not enough looks for Roy or West early on. They need to establish the low post every game.

I thought Danny made a great play on the ball when he was whistled on Lebron in the first qtr. I don't know how the refs could call that a shooting foul, he never went into a shooting motion. Not to mention the 3rd quarter Travel on the fast break. How does the ref not see those steps? Hell Quinn Buckner didn't even see it. (Watching the replay now.)
How about Norris Cole pulling down on Hansbrough's jersey after his shot was blocked to fake a foul call. Terrible Officiating. Its very hard to beat the Miami Heat when you have 3 officials suffering from Heat stroke. I'm surprised Tyler didn't spit in Coles face while he was on the ground.

I think they should go out and sign JR Smith pronto. We need a proven offensive threat. Maybe that will allow the rest of our team to refocus on D and not focus so much on Offense.

Also I can't wait for Haywoode's Pacemate photos from tonight, they had those sexy black cabaret outfits on.

What I always find odd: regarding that first shooting foul called on Granger, you're absolutely right. Anyone could see that. But Quinn refuses to call a spade a spade there. He does this weird thing where he justifies bad calls against the Pacers, as if he needs to in order to strengthen his objectivity.

I don't get it. He's not contracted to the NBA. I get when BTN guys excuse bad officiating. I don't get when Quinn does it.

Sandman21
02-15-2012, 12:56 AM
What I always find odd: regarding that first shooting foul called on Granger, you're absolutely right. Anyone could see that. But Quinn refuses to call a spade a spade there. He does this weird thing where he justifies bad calls against the Pacers, as if he needs to in order to strengthen his objectivity.

David Stern's reach is far......:eek:

Sandman21
02-15-2012, 12:58 AM
Scott Agness @ScottAgness
After the game, both teams flew to Cleveland and staying in the SAME hotel. Pacers play 2mor, Heat Fri. Very rare to cross paths like that.

Someone please make sure Lance and Juwan Howard stay on separate floors at all times.:D

Asher99
02-15-2012, 01:09 AM
On the four game skid.....

29-for-47 61.7% for David West
3-for-5 60.0% for Lou Amundson
12-for-24 50.0% for Tyler Hansbrough
2-for-4 50.0% for Jeff Foster
11-for-24 45.8% for A.J. Price
15-for-33 45.4% for Darren Collison
8-for-18 44.4% for Dahntay Jones
23-for-54 42.6% for Danny Granger
16-for-40 40.0% for Roy Hibbert
6-for-17 35.3% for Lance Stephenson
13-for-42 30.9% for Paul George

graphic-er
02-15-2012, 01:11 AM
What I always find odd: regarding that first shooting foul called on Granger, you're absolutely right. Anyone could see that. But Quinn refuses to call a spade a spade there. He does this weird thing where he justifies bad calls against the Pacers, as if he needs to in order to strengthen his objectivity.

I don't get it. He's not contracted to the NBA. I get when BTN guys excuse bad officiating. I don't get when Quinn does it.

RIght I believe his words were "Well normally the officials aren't going to let you get away with that"

I thought....what, play defense on Lebron James and get a clean poke at the ball?

BUt you are right, he does it all the time, he justifies a bad call by the officials.

immortality
02-15-2012, 01:12 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/notebook/_/page/heatreaction-120214/miami-heat-indiana-pacers (http://www.pacersdigest.com/LeBron%20James%207-15%20FG%20%7C%207-8%20FT%20%7C%209%20REB%20%7C%207%20AST%20%7C%2023% 20PTS%20%7C%20+29%20GRADEA%20%20With%20the%20way%2 0he%27s%20playing,%20LeBron%20might%20petition%20t he%20league%20to%20allow%20him%20to%20play%20back-to-backs%20all%20season.%20LeBron%20played%20in%20top %20gear%20all%20game%20despite%20playing%20for%20t he%20third%20time%20in%20as%20many%20days.%20Pinni ng%207-foot-2%20Roy%20Hibbert%27s%20layup%20to%20the%20backboa rd%20was%20just%20one%20of%20about%2010%20LeBron%2 0highlights%20in%20this%20one.%20Dwyane%20Wade%206-12%20FG%20%7C%204-4%20FT%20%7C%206%20REB%20%7C%203%20AST%20%7C%2016% 20PTS%20%7C%20+16%20GRADEB+%20%20LeBron%20might%20 sit%20atop%20the%20efficiency%20rankings%20this%20 season,%20but%20Wade%20is%20making%20him%20sweat%2 0lately.%20In%2024%20minutes,%20Wade%20filled%20up %20the%20scoring%20column%20in%20a%20variety%20of% 20ways%20with%20slam%20dunks%20and%20rainbow%20jum pers.%20Wade%20cooled%20off%20in%20the%20second%20 half,%20but%20Erik%20Spoelstra%20shrewdly%20kept%2 0him%20on%20the%20bench%20in%20the%20laugher.%20Ch ris%20Bosh%203-9%20FG%20%7C%207-8%20FT%20%7C%207%20REB%20%7C%201%20AST%20%7C%2013% 20PTS%20%7C%20+11%20GRADEB-%20%20No%20one%20will%20feel%20sympathetic%20for%2 0Bosh%27s%20plight,%20but%20he%20won%27t%20get%20a ny%20pub%20for%20playing%20well%20when%20Wade%20an d%20LeBron%20are%20playing%20at%20this%20level.%20 He%27ll%20get%20his%20due%20eventually,%20though.% 20Bosh%20had%20a%20solid%20night%20and%20outplayed %20his%20counterpart,%20David%20West.%20Bosh%20mus t%20have%20enjoyed%20his%20time%20in%20the%20sun%2 0in%20the%20fourth%20quarter%20with%20Wade%20and%2 0LeBron%20taking%20the%20final%20frame%20off.%20De fense%20GRADEA%20%20The%20West%20All-Stars%20would%20have%20trouble%20scoring%20against %20the%20Heat%20with%20the%20way%20Spoelstra%20has %20them%20playing.%20The%20Pacers%20struggled%20to %20find%20an%20ounce%20of%20breathing%20room%20in% 20the%20half%20court%20as%20the%20Heat%20showed%20 no%20signs%20of%20fatigue%20in%20their%20third%20s traight%20game.%20When%20teams%20are%20tired,%20th e%20defense%20is%20usually%20the%20first%20thing%2 0to%20fall.%20Not%20so%20with%20Miami.%20Indiana%2 0Pacers%20GRADEF%20%20No%20excuses%20for%20the%20e ffort%20level,%20considering%20they%20enjoyed%20tw o%20days%20of%20rest%20and%20the%20Heat%20have%20h ad%20zilch%20since%20Sunday.%20Miami%27s%20defense %20might%20have%20been%20suffocating%20at%20times, %20but%20the%20Pacers%27%20struggles%20were%20ofte n%20self-inflicted.%20The%20Pacers%20now%20have%20lost%20by %20a%20total%20of%2063%20points%20in%20just%20two% 20games%20against%20the%20Heat%20this%20season.)



http://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/nba/65/trans/mia.gif
Defense
GRADE: A
The West All-Stars would have trouble scoring against the Heat with the way Spoelstra has them playing. The Pacers struggled to find an ounce of breathing room in the half court as the Heat showed no signs of fatigue in their third straight game. When teams are tired, the defense is usually the first thing to fall. Not so with Miami.


http://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/nba/65/trans/ind.gif
Indiana Pacers
GRADE: F
No excuses for the effort level, considering they enjoyed two days of rest and the Heat have had zilch since Sunday. Miami's defense might have been suffocating at times, but the Pacers' struggles were often self-inflicted. The Pacers now have lost by a total of 63 points in just two games against the Heat this season.



I agree on this :(.

graphic-er
02-15-2012, 01:12 AM
On the four game skid.....

29-for-47 61.7% for David West
3-for-5 60.0% for Lou Amundson
12-for-24 50.0% for Tyler Hansbrough
2-for-4 50.0% for Jeff Foster
11-for-24 45.8% for A.J. Price
15-for-33 45.4% for Darren Collison
8-for-18 44.4% for Dahntay Jones
23-for-54 42.6% for Danny Granger
16-for-40 40.0% for Roy Hibbert
6-for-17 35.3% for Lance Stephenson
13-for-42 30.9% for Paul George


So Roy and Paul are the reason we suck?

croz24
02-15-2012, 01:14 AM
i can tell u this....were not as good as everyone thought...we even here on PD overrated our team way to much

PD overrate the Pacers and their players? Never...

Justin Tyme
02-15-2012, 01:15 AM
[QUOTE=graphic-er;1373958]
I think they should go out and sign JR Smith pronto. We need a proven offensive threat./QUOTE]


Lets not get carried away and make a move to bring in a problem player in hopes they will be the savior. The last savior the 2 headed monster brought in lasted a half season and wasn't happy being here. Harrington wasn't the answer then, and neither is JR Smith now.

MiaDragon
02-15-2012, 01:17 AM
So Roy and Paul are the reason we suck?

no its because we started running the "why waste any energy lets let them score as quickly as possible so we can get back on offense" defense.

RLeWorm
02-15-2012, 01:18 AM
ahahaha just got home and saw the title of the thread. Funny as hell lol ahahahahahah

Justin Tyme
02-15-2012, 01:19 AM
So, if we bounce back and win the next 5 games all the guys that are ready to blow it up now will start hoping on the bandwagon again? :-p

Guys, let's be real. Yes, the performance was disheartening. Yes, our starters played bad. But don't go overboard. We were playing versus the Heat. One of the best teams in the NBA and also one of the teams that we do not match up well against. A loss was the most probable outcome.

I don't know if some of you had overrated our team. I stand by my original expectations of 3rd to 6th seed.

Of course, if I see us dropping any games in the next 5 I may start panicking as well. There's no need to do this yet, though. We lost to the Heat not to the Wizards.


BUT it's how they are losing that is the problem. They have quit playing the way that gave them success in the 1st place. SMASHMOUTH BB!!!!!!!!

MiaDragon
02-15-2012, 01:25 AM
BUT it's how they are losing that is the problem. They have quit playing the way that gave them success in the 1st place. SMASHMOUTH BB!!!!!!!!

But lets simply over look all that, did you see them wining at the start of the season!? Love people who cant see the forest for the trees.

RLeWorm
02-15-2012, 01:26 AM
So, if we bounce back and win the next 5 games all the guys that are ready to blow it up now will start hoping on the bandwagon again? :-p

Guys, let's be real. Yes, the performance was disheartening. Yes, our starters played bad. But don't go overboard. We were playing versus the Heat. One of the best teams in the NBA and also one of the teams that we do not match up well against. A loss was the most probable outcome.

I don't know if some of you had overrated our team. I stand by my original expectations of 3rd to 6th seed.

Of course, if I see us dropping any games in the next 5 I may start panicking as well. There's no need to do this yet, though. We lost to the Heat not to the Wizards.

do you know how bad this loss is?
1. Heat is playing their 3rd game of a 3 game in 3 night. So we should have the advantage off the bat.
2. We got a 2 day break.
3. The Heat was running and we couldn't keep up. Sad? Very sad. What happened to the "young legs"?
4. We got our u know what kicked.
5. It became so bad Granger faked a Ankle injury so he didn't have to get embarrassed anymore.

Kid Minneapolis
02-15-2012, 01:26 AM
I'm not jumpin ship, nor do I think we're as bad as it's looked the last few games. We hit a tough stretch and were in most of those games, just came up on wrong end. Miami was a blow-out, but all their games in the past week have been blow-outs, they are riding a massive high right now, and Indy just happened to not show up for it.

They need to get back to their roots of smash-mouth basketball, rebounding, playing tough D. They've gotten away from it.

Asher99
02-15-2012, 01:30 AM
We lost to the Heat I get people saying that, but we were at home rested while they are finishing up a 5 game road trip playing for the 4th time in 5 days and the 3rd day in a row. Despite that we got ran out the gym down by 35 in the 4th before they called off the dogs.

Justin Tyme
02-15-2012, 01:34 AM
But lets simply over look all that, did you see them wining at the start of the season!? Love people who cant see the forest for the trees.

Yes, I did, and they were winning by playing SMASHMOUTH BB while shooting in the high 30 %. They are NOT playing smashmouth BB now and are losing. They aren't doing that now, and they aren't winning. It's pretty obvious if one wants to take their blinders off.

Bball
02-15-2012, 01:34 AM
As Pacer fans we're all confused and feeling lost right now... But can you imagine how Roy's agent is feeling right now??? That extension probably isn't looking so bad to him right now....

MiaDragon
02-15-2012, 01:36 AM
Yes, I did, and they were winning by playing SMASHMOUTH BB while shooting in the high 30 %. They are NOT playing smashmouth BB now and are losing. They aren't doing that now, and they aren't winning. It's pretty obvious if one wants to take their blinders off.

pst I was agreeing with ya.

Sookie
02-15-2012, 01:38 AM
So, if we bounce back and win the next 5 games all the guys that are ready to blow it up now will start hoping on the bandwagon again? :-p

Guys, let's be real. Yes, the performance was disheartening. Yes, our starters played bad. But don't go overboard. We were playing versus the Heat. One of the best teams in the NBA and also one of the teams that we do not match up well against. A loss was the most probable outcome.

I don't know if some of you had overrated our team. I stand by my original expectations of 3rd to 6th seed.

Of course, if I see us dropping any games in the next 5 I may start panicking as well. There's no need to do this yet, though. We lost to the Heat not to the Wizards.

We needed a butt kicking last time to get it together, maybe they need one this time.

I agree, teams have ups and downs. This team is young, it's going to have even more of them. They don't suck, they just have some players playing poorly.

I agree on the defensive end. We need to stop running, slow the game down, play some solid defense (It's not only lazy, but people are getting confused, and royally stinking on team defense) All fixable stuff.

They'll get themselves together. We knew a down spell was coming. And it's right now.

flox
02-15-2012, 01:39 AM
It could be worse. O'Brien could still be your coach and I could be making insufferable posts.

All is not lost. The team could be falling back to the mean, but still, it's been a great ride so far, we shouldn't let that ruin the tone. Remember, last year we were happy just making the playoffs.

Justin Tyme
02-15-2012, 01:39 AM
They need to get back to their roots of smash-mouth basketball, rebounding, playing tough D. They've gotten away from it.


AMEN!!!!

Someone might want to send Vogel a memo to that effect.

I'd rather win games and worry about poor offense than have better offensive and lose games with not doing what got the wins in the 1st place.

imbtyler
02-15-2012, 01:39 AM
As I said in previously, I'm not off the wagon at all, nor thinking we should actually "blow it up". I'm disappointed and embarrassed, but I know that we can still work wonders with what we have already, let alone adding one or more pieces before the playoffs begin. I'm just incredibly impatient, and honestly worried that worse misfortune might rear its ugly head.

You know, besides our two best wings being injured, our other good players playing awful, and our crappiest players are playing halfway mediocre, giving the perception of decency.

We'll live. And we'll surprise.

Justin Tyme
02-15-2012, 01:45 AM
Well at least Westminister was interesting when the Pacers weren't. I can't believe that dust mop Peke won it. I picked Emmy the Irish Setter, but I might have been a little prejuice since I had Irish Setters.

jrockne
02-15-2012, 01:54 AM
What really sucks: Having a group of drunk frat boys with Lebron jerseys on sit right behind my girlfriend and I at the game tonight. Why does it always feel like I'm at an away game?

Hoop
02-15-2012, 01:59 AM
Well at least Westminister was interesting when the Pacers weren't. I can't believe that dust mop Peke won it. I picked Emmy the Irish Setter, but I might have been a little prejuice since I had Irish Setters.
I was rooting for the German Shepard or the Dalmatian. Can't believe the little dust mop won either, it was the worst.

graphic-er
02-15-2012, 02:03 AM
I'm not jumpin ship, nor do I think we're as bad as it's looked the last few games. We hit a tough stretch and were in most of those games, just came up on wrong end. Miami was a blow-out, but all their games in the past week have been blow-outs, they are riding a massive high right now, and Indy just happened to not show up for it.

They need to get back to their roots of smash-mouth basketball, rebounding, playing tough D. They've gotten away from it.

Been sayin this for a while now. Pacers have abandoned what gave them such strong momentum during the first month of the season. They generally always out rebounded their opponents. We were a top 5 defensive FG% team. Now we are sliding to middle of the pack. Its obvious we dont' have the offensive punch to be a middle of the road defensive team. We were once top 5 in basically every defensive category.

I think Vogel gave up on the sending 2 bigs to the rim for rebounding. I dont' know why....it was working. But I see alot of everyone running back down the court after a shot goes up and nobody going after the rebound.

presto123
02-15-2012, 02:16 AM
What really sucks: Having a group of drunk frat boys with Lebron jerseys on sit right behind my girlfriend and I at the game tonight. Why does it always feel like I'm at an away game?

That sucks. They didn't spill beer on you did they?

RLeWorm
02-15-2012, 02:22 AM
no one is jumping off the so called "bandwagon". We just want the pacers to get back to playing the ball that we are use to seeing. We don't know whats going on with them. Thats all!

Hicks
02-15-2012, 02:48 AM
Rick Carlisle always said you're never as good as you think or as bad as you think and that the line between being a good team and a bad team is thinner than you'd think.

Let's hope to God he was right.

Nuntius
02-15-2012, 02:54 AM
BUT it's how they are losing that is the problem. They have quit playing the way that gave them success in the 1st place. SMASHMOUTH BB!!!!!!!!

I completely agree with this. I never said I'm glad with how the team is playing the last 4 games. All I'm trying to do is to remind to people that we're not suddenly a lottery or an 8th team seed just because we hit our first rough patch.


But lets simply over look all that, did you see them wining at the start of the season!? Love people who cant see the forest for the trees.

I'm not saying that either. A lot of people in this thread (you included) have given the impression that we suddenly suck and need to make major moves in order to have any chance of advancing in the second round. What I'm saying is that we do not need to blow this up nor do we need to panick and try to bring in an expensive player in hopes of turning us into ECF contenders, failing and then get stuck with a bad contract.

We need to keep in perspective what's our goal. Our goal at the start of the season was to improve over our last season. Right? Last season we were 8th seed and a 1st round exit. This season we're aiming to be a 3rd to 6th seed and make it to the 2nd round. I don't remember our goal changing into ECF contenders. Sure, we can give elite teams a run for their money (not every game) but that's about it. We're not contenders yet. We are right on track with our original goal, though.

Also, since you like being personal I have a question to ask you. Are you going to make any positive contribution here? I may be new to this forum but all I see you doing in the post game threads is whining about the team, the players and some posters who are defending said team and/or players.

Do you want to criticize the team? Great. Then find what's wrong and suggest a way to fix it. Just like Justin Tyme does.

Simply being negative and *****ing about everything is not going to help.


do you know how bad this loss is?
1. Heat is playing their 3rd game of a 3 game in 3 night. So we should have the advantage off the bat.
2. We got a 2 day break.
3. The Heat was running and we couldn't keep up. Sad? Very sad. What happened to the "young legs"?
4. We got our u know what kicked.
5. It became so bad Granger faked a Ankle injury so he didn't have to get embarrassed anymore.

The loss itself is not bad. It was the performance that went with it that was bad. I certainly get it. You are right on the points you raised but we cannot change the past now. Again, what I'm saying is that the last few performances are not characteristical of our team. Just because we have sucked for 5-6 games in a row it doesn't mean that we suck overally. It means that we're going through a rough patch.


We needed a butt kicking last time to get it together, maybe they need one this time.

I agree, teams have ups and downs. This team is young, it's going to have even more of them. They don't suck, they just have some players playing poorly.

I agree on the defensive end. We need to stop running, slow the game down, play some solid defense (It's not only lazy, but people are getting confused, and royally stinking on team defense) All fixable stuff.

They'll get themselves together. We knew a down spell was coming. And it's right now.

A lot of good points here, Sookie.

What I'd like to say is that this rough patch may prove beneficial to the team in the long run. All the young teams go through such periods. Can we get something positive from it? If yes, it will only make us stronger.

Edit: About the point that RLeWorm brought up about Granger. Even if he faked the injury, I'd have no problem with that. I don't think we matchup well with the Heat and at this point the game was already out of control. Don't get me wrong, I like it when our guys don't give up and put up a fight when a game seems lost and I loved Roy when he played through his injury at that Lakers game. However, yesterday I felt that nothing could have been done to prevent the loss after the first 8-10 minutes. I may be in the minority here but I really wanted Vogel to only play the backups in the second half. The next 5 games are must have wins for us after the recent losing streak so we need Danny to be capable of playing.

Hicks
02-15-2012, 03:01 AM
muahaha, the pessimists shall rise to power again

"we told you so"


If that's truly your attitude, I pity you.

D-BONE
02-15-2012, 06:54 AM
Doesn't have anything to do with losing, but how we're losing. I don't favor "blowing it up", but I don't see us challenging for a top 4 seed. Obviously, if we don't go on a solid run with all the schedule easing up talk, then we definitely need to rethink.

Major holes including b/u PG and C/PF. Our team is slow and our bigs are athletically limited. It's beginning to be exposed. We could use an upgrade at virtually every starting position. Not that that's simple to accomplish. That's what I'm talking about. That's not blowing it up, that's trying to make your team better. Obviously, you're not trying to do it all at once.

In the final analysis, though, it all comes back the effort, the mental toughness, and the commitment to defense. It's hard to imagine losing it so quickly and to this extreme. What really frosts my *** is the way we were talking up our "smashmouthness" so publicly. Maybe we need to be able to walk the walk consistently first, because I think a lot of teams are basically handing it to us in response to our overconfidence.

BillS
02-15-2012, 10:37 AM
They had 95 on the board with 10+ left to go and called off the dogs and scored just 10 points the final 10:23 of the game.

And you think in their 15+ point wins against other teams they left the starters on the floor?

I think the more likely thing is that their average could have been higher if they did to everyone what you say they could have done against us. They won their last 3 games by an average of 17 points, I doubt they kept their starters out there in the other two and busted their rears to get to their average.

No, our defense wasn't great, but this game would be nowhere near as embarrassing if we could have put some points on the board (which would probably have helped feed some energy to the defense as well, it does work both ways).

To say that we lost because we somehow focused on offense at the expense of defense is simplistic and misguided.

Peck
02-15-2012, 10:41 AM
And you think in their 15+ point wins against other teams they left the starters on the floor?

I think the more likely thing is that their average could have been higher if they did to everyone what you say they could have done against us. They won their last 3 games by an average of 17 points, I doubt they kept their starters out there in the other two and busted their rears to get to their average.

No, our defense wasn't great, but this game would be nowhere near as embarrassing if we could have put some points on the board (which would probably have helped feed some energy to the defense as well, it does work both ways).

To say that we lost because we somehow focused on offense at the expense of defense is simplistic and misguided.

It was an overall collapse. The poor shooting certainly did not help, but then again neither did the one and done no rebounding help either.

That is the real difference between now and how we played earlier. We were not shooting well early in the season either (not 26% for certain) but we were pounding the offensive glass. That is now all but gone, if we don't hit our first shot more than likely we are going the other way.

MTM
02-15-2012, 10:41 AM
The mid 80s Celtics, the late 80s Lakers, the late 80s Pistons, the early 90s Knicks, and the 90s Bulls (except when Jordan was retired).

When these teams came to town, those average/bad Pacers teams expected to lose, and the question was really only how much they would lose by. I was a fan of the Pacers through all those eras, and it was a feeling of near helplessness to realize that it was an impossible matchup, and that the opponent's greatness could not be equalled without a freak injury, a significantly lucky shooting night, or a really really bad game by the other team. If they played their normal game, then they win. Every time.

By the mid 90s the dominance had eroded, so that the games were no longer certainties.

The Heat are nearing that category of dominance against us, and I hate admitting it. The games are not games - they are track meets where we sit back and watch them cross the finish line when we are still on the back stretch. I hate the Heat. I hated all those teams above too, for their dominance.

I want to at least be at the point where it is not so unequal in the matchup.

pacergod2
02-15-2012, 10:48 AM
I don't have tme today to read this thread, nor do I really want to.

Last night was embarrassing. I thought we played with no heart. No pride. No spine. It was a terrible showing. If it was even worthy of "showing". We looked like scared little b*tches. Where was someone to knock Lebron on his *** when they started beating us? We crawled up into the fetal position before the game ever started. This was a mental breakdown on every level.

I would like to start AJ Price now. I know that sounds crazy to a lot of you, but I think he fits the half-court mold of our other starters better than Collison. Collison can come in and provide offense to our second unit, with his defense being so bad. I'm not putting the loss on Collison by any means, but with the roster adjustments we need to make, I think Collison does more for our second unit at least until Hill comes back. I am praying that Stephenson gets A TON of burn with Granger out. Let him start to get comfortable. Don't give Dahntay more than 30 minutes. Plus, I think we should try a lineup of West, Hibbert, and Hansborough with George and a PG. I would like to see more Pendergraph as well.

I'm just really disappointed that our squad didn't even show up tonight. Makes me question them at their core. When the pressure is on, I guess we fold.

Justin Tyme
02-15-2012, 10:55 AM
I was rooting for the German Shepard or the Dalmatian. Can't believe the little dust mop won either, it was the worst.


My other 2 picks were the Kerry Blue Terrier and the Wirehaired Doxie.

The German Shepherd was at the Indy show this past weekend, needless to say it won the day I was there watching the show.

Sparhawk
02-15-2012, 11:17 AM
I stopped watching after the first quarter.

I knew this was going to be a bad game, but 2 things kept popping up in my head.

1. Why aren't we playing defense like we did when we were winning?
2. Where's our energy and intensity?? The Heat came out with more energy than us and they were playing for their 3rd day in a row.

Sparhawk
02-15-2012, 11:25 AM
I don't have tme today to read this thread, nor do I really want to.

Last night was embarrassing. I thought we played with no heart. No pride. No spine. It was a terrible showing. If it was even worthy of "showing". We looked like scared little b*tches. Where was someone to knock Lebron on his *** when they started beating us? We crawled up into the fetal position before the game ever started. This was a mental breakdown on every level.

I would like to start AJ Price now. I know that sounds crazy to a lot of you, but I think he fits the half-court mold of our other starters better than Collison. Collison can come in and provide offense to our second unit, with his defense being so bad. I'm not putting the loss on Collison by any means, but with the roster adjustments we need to make, I think Collison does more for our second unit at least until Hill comes back. I am praying that Stephenson gets A TON of burn with Granger out. Let him start to get comfortable. Don't give Dahntay more than 30 minutes. Plus, I think we should try a lineup of West, Hibbert, and Hansborough with George and a PG. I would like to see more Pendergraph as well.

I'm just really disappointed that our squad didn't even show up tonight. Makes me question them at their core. When the pressure is on, I guess we fold.

AJ Price starting? Don't make me laugh. Have you not noticed that teams have been pressing AJ, especially before mid court cause he's slow and not that good?

Pacers just have no spark, no energy right now. I don't know what's the cause, but our guys shouldn't be tired. They've played less games than other teams, and we were using our bench more before Hill got hurt.

Pacers are just playing terrible right now. Embarrassingly terrible. Vogel and team have to start making adjustments.

NapTonius Monk
02-15-2012, 12:11 PM
Could this just be a case of them getting caught up a bit in their own hype? Maybe this was a slap in the face that will jumpstart the hard working team we saw earlier.

PaceBalls
02-15-2012, 12:27 PM
I was just listening to Michael Grady on 1070 and he mentioned this play, the one where Lebron stole the ball and Lance made some halfhearted attempt at a swipe then Lebron made the and 1 on DJones. He said that DJones looked over to Vogel and asked to be taken out of the game.

Grady kind of defended Dahntay because no one was giving any effort whatsoever, but I dunno about that.

Did any of you guys see that?

Sparhawk
02-15-2012, 12:28 PM
Could this just be a case of them getting caught up a bit in their own hype? Maybe this was a slap in the face that will jumpstart the hard working team we saw earlier.

I honestly think so. They kept talking about how no one respects them and how they are the under dog. But I think they puffed themselves up talking about it all the time.

I just want them to show some heart out there on the court. Everyone just looks lost and giving no energy.

Naptown_Seth
02-15-2012, 12:41 PM
Full house against the heat and we played like scared little girls. I am embarassed as a fan. I have never seen a game decided in the first five minutes.
But recall that last year the game WAS over in the first 5 minutes. The full-court baseball pass alley-oop layup ESPY special game.

And then the Pacers recovered and tracked Miami right back down and made it close. Going down a lot in a hurry has happened, but it was the utter "I give up" mood that reminded me more of that "Texas" trip last season. Note that this was also the Lance experiment so it was an alteration, and it ended with the locker room fight in Houston.

So there was an apparent reason that time at least. This time seems like a mystery.



It's like I'm an Allstar now, so no need to play as I was b4 I became an Allstar. Just give me the max contract now.
But we know that's not his personality. His personality is much more a self-conscious, self-doubting type of personality. He knows to believe in himself, but it seems like his gut instinct at times can revert to "I don't belong" mode.

He famously got derailed by the emotions of how JOB was treating him last year. Just because Vogel is supportive doesn't mean he's not susceptible to getting in an emotional funk. Heck, maybe a negative "why is Roy on the AS team" article (or player comment even) sent him off.



George is the opposite, he does go into cruise control when he gets a sense of strength against his opponent. Then it takes a few screw ups and getting burned to re-motivate him. I don't think he's a "now I'm getting paid" type any more than Roy, but I do think he lacks the full-on "I must break you" attitude of a Kobe/Jordan.

Frankly I'm not a big fan of too much of that. Kobe and Mike had too much and could sometimes be selfish (yes, Mike too). Contrast that with the killer instinct of Larry and Magic was just the right amount of "me" with "us" and tons of "break you". :)

Trader Joe
02-15-2012, 12:43 PM
Roy is making chernoybl look like a small melt down.

I don't think Roy is mailing it in with his all star appearance or his contract, I think he's just the same guy he's always been and that is he's a bit weak mentally, he gets down himself easily.

Naptown_Seth
02-15-2012, 12:52 PM
To say that we lost because we somehow focused on offense at the expense of defense is simplistic and misguided.
They gave up 50% shooting and got badly outrebounded in total (partly due to the ratio of OFF vs DEF chances due to FG% differences).

Meanwhile the 43% shooting for the Pacers isn't exactly abnormal.


But the Heat's cruise control for the Pacers was identical to the last 4 games as Bill suggests...

Lebron MPG - 33, 30, 33, 33
Wade - 31, 24, 28, 24
Bosh - 34, 32, 30, 26

All 3 played 6-7 more minutes in the loss to Orlando to begin their road trip, for comparison. They all will push into 40 minutes if it's a tight game.

graphic-er
02-15-2012, 12:58 PM
I was just listening to Michael Grady on 1070 and he mentioned this play, the one where Lebron stole the ball and Lance made some halfhearted attempt at a swipe then Lebron made the and 1 on DJones. He said that DJones looked over to Vogel and asked to be taken out of the game.

Grady kind of defended Dahntay because no one was giving any effort whatsoever, but I dunno about that.

Did any of you guys see that?

Did the mention that James took 4 steps on that play as well?

PaceBalls
02-15-2012, 01:03 PM
Did the mention that James took 4 steps on that play as well?

Right, that sucks and all. Boo on the refs blah blah.

What I find more upsetting is that DJones asked to be taken out of the game because his teammates weren't playing hard or maybe cause the refs weren't calling the game right. Whatever reason, it's not good.

Naptown_Seth
02-15-2012, 01:05 PM
So Roy and Paul are the reason we suck?
Their slump is a big factor, yes. This hurt us last year too. When they get Roy going a lot of good things flow from that.

OTOH, we now have West which gives you the ability to switch looks/attacks. Where were Collison and Danny to pick up the slack during this stretch?


Frankly the biggest problem I see is UNFORCED TOs on OFFENSE. What's with fumbling the ball away randomly for the easy score the other way? That's where you really get concerns regarding effort.

Brad8888
02-15-2012, 01:38 PM
MIA vs. MIA. MIA won. Pacers were MIA. Missing In Action.

When is the trade deadline? Could there be rumors about moves that are about to be made that have destroyed the chemistry?

CJ Jones
02-15-2012, 01:41 PM
Edit: About the point that RLeWorm brought up about Granger. Even if he faked the injury, I'd have no problem with that.

I hope you don't really mean that. He barely tweaked his ankle and then quit on the team. This is supposed to be our leader? He's so far from smash mouth despite what he and others want to believe. If he's not out for a week I just lost a little respect for him. Did he even show back up on the bench?


If that's truly your attitude, I pity you.

I think he was joking...



Right, that sucks and all. Boo on the refs blah blah.

What I find more upsetting is that DJones asked to be taken out of the game because his teammates weren't playing hard or maybe cause the refs weren't calling the game right. Whatever reason, it's not good.

Come on, you said he made a half hearted attempt to get back. He sprinted back and caused LeBron to travel. It's up to the refs to make the call. What'd you and Dahntay expect him to do there? If he wanted to be pulled because of Lance's effort on that play I think he was wrong.

I do give Jones a lot of credit for last night though. He was probably the only player that played well, and the only one that gave the effort it takes to win games like these. Everyone else was kinda just out there. I assume he was disgusted that his teammates weren't "bringing it" and rightfully so.

PaceBalls
02-15-2012, 01:47 PM
Come on, you said he made a half hearted attempt to get back. He sprinted back and caused LeBron to travel. It's up to the refs to make the call. What'd you and Dahntay expect him to do there? If he wanted to be pulled because of Lance's effort on that play I think he was wrong.

I do give Jones a lot of credit for last night though. He was probably the only player that played well, and the only one that gave the effort it takes to win games like these. Everyone else was kinda just out there. I assume he was disgusted that his teammates weren't "bringing it" and rightfully so.

I'm not criticizing anyone here but DJones for asking to get taken out of the game. Don't you think that's messed up? Plus I am just going on what Michael Grady said... who does have really good seats and all, but I was really wondering if anyone else saw it.

BringJackBack
02-15-2012, 02:00 PM
Roy is making chernoybl look like a small melt down.

I don't think Roy is mailing it in with his all star appearance or his contract, I think he's just the same guy he's always been and that is he's a bit weak mentally, he gets down himself easily.

However, I think he's too crucial for the team to be not on the team... This is something that we are going to have to live with, and in the event that Roy is having confidence issues, we need a very talented backup 5 who can play with his back to be basket and have the offense run through him. Jeff and Lou don't have that ability, and Tyler doesn't either.

Sookie
02-15-2012, 02:11 PM
I was just listening to Michael Grady on 1070 and he mentioned this play, the one where Lebron stole the ball and Lance made some halfhearted attempt at a swipe then Lebron made the and 1 on DJones. He said that DJones looked over to Vogel and asked to be taken out of the game.

Grady kind of defended Dahntay because no one was giving any effort whatsoever, but I dunno about that.

Did any of you guys see that?

It might have been a "I'm getting angry so please take me out before I do something stupid." request. The fact that Lance made a lazy play before might not have anything to do with it. (Especially if Lebron had been "talking" the whole night.)

This right now, is about all the starters.

Tyler and AJ have played pretty well the past four games, Lance is bringing energy, Dahntay is consistently solid, we've had Jeff two of the four games. The bench is actually playing as well as it has been all season (other than the Hill/AJ lineup). The Pacers were winning in spite of the bench. The only thing that really hurts is that if PG was off, Hill was easily able to replace him and it was likely production wasn't going to fall off too much. (Or might actually improve.) But that really hasn't lost us games.

The starters, every single one of them, are to blame in this.

DC has gotten lazy on offense. He makes silly and lazy passes. He's taking quick shots. Reverting back to the DC of last year at times. He's still not a good defender, although I still say improved from last season.

PG is just off defensively. I don't know why, that used to be his bread and butter, but he's just not focused on the defensive end.

Roy looks like he's down on himself again. Although he hasn't been getting the ball as much, when he does get it, he's missing his hook shot and he's not fighting hard for position nor is he fighting for rebounds.

I think for these three, it's just a "mental toughness" issue. DC's been having to play a lot of minutes the entire season, and it's catching up to him. Similarly for PG and Roy. Although they are young, they are playing a lot of games, in a way I don't know that they were mentally prepared for.

Danny and West...I'm a little less forgiving.

I have consistently said I don't think Lance is a good player or quite frankly, even decent. He's proven to me he's pretty good in certain areas, but not even that he should be getting consistent playing time for any reason other than development. However, I have been more than impressed by the energy and effort he brings, particularly to the defensive end. He's not good on defense, at all. But he sure as heck tries. And because of that effort, he sometimes makes up for mistakes, poor fundamentals or physical liabilities, and the Pacers get a stop out of it. And you know what, all you can ask for a player on defense is to put in a good effort. So despite the fact that he's a liability, I'm never irritated by him defensively. Because I know he's giving it his best, he just has some flaws (some that can be fixed, and others that can't.).

If Danny and David were putting half as much effort into defense as Lance is, we win at least one of these past four games. I've said over and over again we're going to need to give David a break this season, because he's recovering from a knee injury. And if I thought he was struggling for physical reasons, I wouldn't mention it. But I don't think so. I think he, like Danny, are putting their energy into the offensive end, and neglecting the defense. They're both being lazy, whether it's not bothering to rotate, not paying attention to a player constantly making a backdoor cut, flat out getting in the way of the guard who is trying to defend the PnR etc..They aren't getting a lot of the blame in the team's struggles, but I feel like they're the biggest issue.

These two are the leaders on this team. They're the vets. And they're putting a half hearted effort (barely) into defense. What does that tell PG, Roy, and DC - who seem to all be following their lead. Maybe part of the reason Lance is out there putting in such an effort is because Dahntay is out there with him.

We need to get back to the smashmouth, offensive rebounding, defensive mindset we had before. And it starts with Danny and David.

joeyd
02-15-2012, 02:35 PM
It might have been a "I'm getting angry so please take me out before I do something stupid." request.

I was actually thinking about that when I was watching the game. As a fan, there are some times last night when I caught myself thinking, "Man, if I were down there, I'd be doing something that would surely get me a tech or two." To the team's credit, nothing like that happened.

CJ Jones
02-15-2012, 03:02 PM
I'm not criticizing anyone here but DJones for asking to get taken out of the game. Don't you think that's messed up? Plus I am just going on what Michael Grady said... who does have really good seats and all, but I was really wondering if anyone else saw it.

I didn't see it, but my post in the odd thoughts thread might explain it. Jones seems like a big brother to Lance, and he might have felt disrespected by him earlier in the game. After Lance's turnover Dahntay might have been fed up with him. I hope that's not the case, but it's a possibility.

CJ Jones
02-15-2012, 03:14 PM
Great post Sookie... we're gonna have to agree to disagree with the Lance/AJ defense debate, but the rest of your post is spot on IMO.

Mr_Smith
02-15-2012, 03:18 PM
After the pacers got down by 10 I knew it was over. The only thing that kept me there was Budweiser draft beer that calmed me down from **** mode. I still ended up leaving halfway through the 4th. Just a horrible display of play from the blue & gold.

BillS
02-15-2012, 03:28 PM
They gave up 50% shooting and got badly outrebounded in total (partly due to the ratio of OFF vs DEF chances due to FG% differences).

Meanwhile the 43% shooting for the Pacers isn't exactly abnormal.


But the Heat's cruise control for the Pacers was identical to the last 4 games as Bill suggests...

Lebron MPG - 33, 30, 33, 33
Wade - 31, 24, 28, 24
Bosh - 34, 32, 30, 26

All 3 played 6-7 more minutes in the loss to Orlando to begin their road trip, for comparison. They all will push into 40 minutes if it's a tight game.

Again, keep in mind that I am in no way saying the Pacers played defense WELL.

However, Miami has a 48.5% FG% for the season. Getting up an extra 1.5% in this game doesn't mean the Pacers completely blew chunks on defense.

By the same token, I think the deflation from shooting so badly in the 1st quarter finally knocked the Pacers on their cans. Not being able to get offensive rebounds led to some of the easy Miami points (well, easier, none of Miami's points were particularly hard). The energy leaked out like pi$$ through a rusty bucket.

All I'm trying to say is that people fixate on a mantra - defense "won us" the earlier games where our shooting was bad, and so therefore an inability to win while shooting badly must be due to horrible defense. It isn't that simple - basically our offense dug us into a hole that nothing short of stellar defense was going to get us out of. Playing generally poor defense certainly wasn't going to do it.

Defense can't win games unless you actually score more than the other team. A lack of it when combined with bad offense can make you lose games by a bigger margin than you might normally.

The thing that started this whole gripe on my part was the insinuation that we had somehow lost our defensive focus due to concentrating solely on offense. To which I still say, "whut?"

BillS
02-15-2012, 03:32 PM
I hope you don't really mean that. He barely tweaked his ankle and then quit on the team. This is supposed to be our leader? He's so far from smash mouth despite what he and others want to believe. If he's not out for a week I just lost a little respect for him. Did he even show back up on the bench?

This is Danny, who has played through some serious stuff. If he is out for even ONE game I don't see how people can complain that he is goldbricking.

As far as not coming back to the bench, could it perhaps be the ankle was being worked on and kept elevated in order that he might be able to play tonight? Oh, no, guess that's not possible, he was pouting, no medical reason ever for someone with an ankle injury to stay in the training room to prep for a game the next night, sorry for even bringing it up.

CJ Jones
02-15-2012, 05:23 PM
This is Danny, who has played through some serious stuff. If he is out for even ONE game I don't see how people can complain that he is goldbricking.

As far as not coming back to the bench, could it perhaps be the ankle was being worked on and kept elevated in order that he might be able to play tonight? Oh, no, guess that's not possible, he was pouting, no medical reason ever for someone with an ankle injury to stay in the training room to prep for a game the next night, sorry for even bringing it up.

If you've ever severely sprained an ankle you'd know that you don't walk off the court like Danny did last night. You do what Hill and Hibbert did and cry like a baby for a few minutes.

Him not coming back to bench left a bad taste in my mouth after what I've seen from Roy this year coming back after a sprain and a broken nose. Add that to the fact that I felt coming into the game Danny was scared of LeBron, and that he checked out mentally the game before against him in Miami.

My post might have been over the top, but I stand by my opinion that unless Danny's foot is broke and he's out for a while he should have made it back to the bench.

Since86
02-15-2012, 05:26 PM
If you've ever severely sprained an ankle you'd know that you don't walk off the court like Danny did last night.

That's just false.

CJ Jones
02-15-2012, 06:04 PM
That's just false.

That's my experience unless it's just a tweak. Maybe Hill, Hibbert, and I are just a bunch of sissies then. :cry:

Peck
02-15-2012, 06:27 PM
If you've ever severely sprained an ankle you'd know that you don't walk off the court like Danny did last night. You do what Hill and Hibbert did and cry like a baby for a few minutes.

Him not coming back to bench left a bad taste in my mouth after what I've seen from Roy this year coming back after a sprain and a broken nose. Add that to the fact that I felt coming into the game Danny was scared of LeBron, and that he checked out mentally the game before against him in Miami.

My post might have been over the top, but I stand by my opinion that unless Danny's foot is broke and he's out for a while he should have made it back to the bench.

http://www.pacerscourtside.com/wp-content/uploads/danny-granger-loses-teeth-indiana-pacers-close-up.jpg

I just don't see how anyone can ever say Danny isn't tough or plays through pain.

I am probably at fault here because I was trying to be funny with my Danny's sprained ego in my odd thoughts post.

But I want to make certain everyone is clear, under no circumstance do I beleive for one second that Danny Granger pretended he was injured so he didn't have to come back.

CJ Jones
02-15-2012, 06:46 PM
http://www.pacerscourtside.com/wp-content/uploads/danny-granger-loses-teeth-indiana-pacers-close-up.jpg

I just don't see how anyone can ever say Danny isn't tough or plays through pain.

I am probably at fault here because I was trying to be funny with my Danny's sprained ego in my odd thoughts post.

But I want to make certain everyone is clear, under no circumstance do I beleive for one second that Danny Granger pretended he was injured so he didn't have to come back.

I love Danny Granger. In no way am I saying I don't respect him or that he a faked an injury. I just feel that if it was only a tweak he should of made it back to the bench to get embarrassed along with the rest of his teammates.

Anyway he may be hurt a lot worse than we know. If that's the case then I'll apologize.

righteouscool
02-15-2012, 06:58 PM
If you've ever severely sprained an ankle you'd know that you don't walk off the court like Danny did last night. You do what Hill and Hibbert did and cry like a baby for a few minutes.

Him not coming back to bench left a bad taste in my mouth after what I've seen from Roy this year coming back after a sprain and a broken nose. Add that to the fact that I felt coming into the game Danny was scared of LeBron, and that he checked out mentally the game before against him in Miami.

My post might have been over the top, but I stand by my opinion that unless Danny's foot is broke and he's out for a while he should have made it back to the bench.

This is completely incorrect. I've sprained my ankle multiple times and fractured it as well. Even when I fractured it I was able to walk on it till I got to the hospital and elevated it. To be honest I've sprained my ankle so much the pain doesn't even bother me so you can't use Danny's reaction to pain to judge him.

Not to mention he ran down the court to try to defend Lebron on a bum ankle. Danny has played against Lebron for the last 7+ years and I've never seen him "scared" of Lebron. Infact, he usually seems really pumped to go against him.

spazzxb
02-15-2012, 07:01 PM
I'm not criticizing anyone here but DJones for asking to get taken out of the game. Don't you think that's messed up? Plus I am just going on what Michael Grady said... who does have really good seats and all, but I was really wondering if anyone else saw it.

screw his seats we have replay and camera angles. Lance did nothing wrong there(except stop Lebrons drive and make him travel). If Jones did ask to be taken out of the game, that's a big negative against DJ. I didn't see DJ say anything, but Lance was calling for the obvious travel. In the fourth we cut their lead in half why would DJ be complaining about that units effort? I takes effort to outscore bench players to.

Pacer Fan
02-15-2012, 07:28 PM
http://www.pacerscourtside.com/wp-content/uploads/danny-granger-loses-teeth-indiana-pacers-close-up.jpg

I just don't see how anyone can ever say Danny isn't tough or plays through pain.

I am probably at fault here because I was trying to be funny with my Danny's sprained ego in my odd thoughts post.

But I want to make certain everyone is clear, under no circumstance do I beleive for one second that Danny Granger pretended he was injured so he didn't have to come back.

Those teeth wasn't his real teeth, they was porcelains, it didn't hurt just looked bad. He barely turned his ankle, he could have played...just used it to escape embarrassment. Lebron stole Danny's tough pills...Danny isn't tough...Yeah, I said it!!

Naptown_Seth
02-15-2012, 10:42 PM
However, Miami has a 48.5% FG% for the season. Getting up an extra 1.5% in this game doesn't mean the Pacers completely blew chunks on defense.
But the point being made is that the Pacers WERE one of the elite FG% defensive teams in the NBA, so when a 48.5% team comes in, they get handed a 45% night. That's how you become a top ranked FG% team, by holding teams BELOW THE NORM.

And the way you become one of the lower rated teams is by being the team that Miami goes ABOVE their FG% against. And this is the new trend, that the Pacers can be scored on almost at will for 12-14 minute stretches.

MiaDragon
02-15-2012, 10:56 PM
I'm not saying that either. A lot of people in this thread (you included) have given the impression that we suddenly suck and need to make major moves in order to have any chance of advancing in the second round. What I'm saying is that we do not need to blow this up nor do we need to panick and try to bring in an expensive player in hopes of turning us into ECF contenders, failing and then get stuck with a bad contract.

Ive NEVER said anything close to "blow up" the team. However I DO think we need to make a major move to be competitive in the playoffs. Do you really see this team as currently constructed making much noise in the PS? Im sorry but Im not happy with simply being there, that does nothing for me.

We need to keep in perspective what's our goal. Our goal at the start of the season was to improve over our last season. Right? Last season we were 8th seed and a 1st round exit. This season we're aiming to be a 3rd to 6th seed and make it to the 2nd round. I don't remember our goal changing into ECF contenders. Sure, we can give elite teams a run for their money (not every game) but that's about it. We're not contenders yet. We are right on track with our original goal, though.


Also, since you like being personal I have a question to ask you. Are you going to make any positive contribution here? I may be new to this forum but all I see you doing in the post game threads is whining about the team, the players and some posters who are defending said team and/or players.

Do you want to criticize the team? Great. Then find what's wrong and suggest a way to fix it. Just like Justin Tyme does.

Simply being negative and *****ing about everything is not going to help.

Personal? How so? I've never mentioned you, or even quoted something you posted IIRC? Who are YOU to judge what a positive contribution is here? You really do think quite highly if yourself don't you. That may be what rubs me the wrong way with you, your elitist attitude. How you simply tell people that their opinion is wrong. I really have better things to do than argue with you, so here, put your cheek on the screen, Im going to give you a smooch. You were right and I was wrong.