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View Full Version : why do we struggle on fast breaks?



Pacergeek
02-11-2012, 11:45 PM
Is it coaching? Personnel? Bad luck? I am getting sick and tired of 3-1 fast breaks not producing points

imbtyler
02-11-2012, 11:57 PM
Because players who think "score first" are always leading the break (DC, DG, GH), even though they have players open and available for passes and alley-oops (PG particularly). If we got used to running the 3-on-1 fast break, and practicing alley-oops, we'd be much better off. I know we're good with them, but there are so many times I watch Granger or Collison take the ball all the way coast-to-coast, just to miss the shot, when they could have made one good pass and not sacrificed a shot by being selfish.

Peck
02-12-2012, 01:10 AM
Because players who think "score first" are always leading the break (DC, DG, GH), even though they have players open and available for passes and alley-oops (PG particularly). If we got used to running the 3-on-1 fast break, and practicing alley-oops, we'd be much better off. I know we're good with them, but there are so many times I watch Granger or Collison take the ball all the way coast-to-coast, just to miss the shot, when they could have made one good pass and not sacrificed a shot by being selfish.

Let me guess, if Paul George was leading the break (which sometimes he does) he looks to facilitate offense instead of getting his own shot.

D-BONE
02-12-2012, 08:31 AM
This is a long answer. So to avoid so much verbage, I'll simplify it to...
a) we don't have any traditional fast break leaders (passing/dribbling/ timing/decision making)
b) we look clueless about philosophy and technique for running & we don't often run together (too often one guy bolting ahead with the dribble, but nobody running with him; or conversely open guys ahead but one guy in the backcourt trying to advance of dribble)

CJ Jones
02-12-2012, 09:14 AM
Few things:

Bad spacing - we're running into each other instead filling different lanes. I also notice the ball handlers not always dribbling to the middle of the court. This is something I learned in AAU when I was 12.

Running - simply not running hard enough

Passing - I don't have faith in anyone but Lance to make an accurate pass. Darren wants to dribble the entire length of the court instead of doing what Denver does, and advance the damn ball. He missed Granger twice. Of course Granger looked like he was jogging so...

Scheme - Gotta tip your hat to Karl here. That's a well coached team. Hopefully Vogel uses this film and shows our guys the proper way to run a break.

doctor-h
02-12-2012, 09:31 AM
Let me guess, if Paul George was leading the break (which sometimes he does) he looks to facilitate offense instead of getting his own shot.

Its not a question of Paul George leading the break. Its a question of who should be leading the break. It should be Collison with Hill, Granger, George, Dahntay and others filling the lane. Collison though is horrible at running the break, Granger is a train wreck and George is too indecisive. Hibbert is too slow get the ball out on the break. Collison seems to think he is the break. He is a terrible decision maker and until the Pacers do something about it, they will always be weak in this area.

MTM
02-12-2012, 09:42 AM
Sometimes it's as simple as executing the most simple things - get the ball to the middle of the floor in a ball handler's hands, the guys filling the lanes sprint to the wings and fill the lanes, and when the defender makes a decision to stop the ball or stop someone else, the ball handler must make the right decision - usually one easy pass.

BlueNGold
02-12-2012, 10:57 AM
Because players who think "score first" are always leading the break (DC, DG, GH), even though they have players open and available for passes and alley-oops (PG particularly). If we got used to running the 3-on-1 fast break, and practicing alley-oops, we'd be much better off. I know we're good with them, but there are so many times I watch Granger or Collison take the ball all the way coast-to-coast, just to miss the shot, when they could have made one good pass and not sacrificed a shot by being selfish.

This is part of the problem. We have Granger who isn't known for dishing and a couple young guys in Collison and George who definitely like to shoot. Danny loves to shoot. George likes to get to the rack and dunk. Collison loves to drive and score. That's all good, but we do need one guy who is noticeably more willing to give up the ball. That makes the break function more efficiently.

The other part is...it's likely we practice half-court a lot more than fast breaks. Maybe nearly exclusively half-court.

vnzla81
02-12-2012, 11:43 AM
The funny thing in all this or sad part whatever you want to call it, is that DJ has been probably our best passer on fast breaks.

BlueNGold
02-12-2012, 12:10 PM
The funny thing in all this or sad part whatever you want to call it, is that DJ has been probably our best passer on fast breaks.

This does show how bad it is. This team has no play maker or floor general that doesn't already have his finger on the trigger all the time.

vnzla81
02-12-2012, 12:14 PM
This does show how bad it is. This team has no play maker or floor general that doesn't already have his finger on the trigger all the time.

Well how many easy shots Denver got yesterday on fast breaks because they actually have a point guard that can see the floor? Andre Miller was passing the ball left and right.

Kstat
02-12-2012, 12:31 PM
your fast break is always as good as your point guard. Unless you're Miami and capable of just lobbing the ball 10 feet over the defense's head.

beast23
02-12-2012, 01:12 PM
your fast break is always as good as your point guard.
Touche.... how true.

CJ Jones
02-12-2012, 02:26 PM
Well how many easy shots Denver got yesterday on fast breaks because they actually have a point guard that can see the floor? Andre Miller was passing the ball left and right.

I think he'd be a good backup for this team even though he's older. Always been one of my favorite PGs.

Jon Theodore
02-12-2012, 07:37 PM
The funny thing in all this or sad part whatever you want to call it, is that DJ has been probably our best passer on fast breaks.

False, Lance is the only guy who makes the right pass on breaks. Dahntay usually does end up scoring on a lot of breaks, but I don't feel he has been the best passer.

Sparhawk
02-13-2012, 11:18 AM
Few things:

Bad spacing - we're running into each other instead filling different lanes. I also notice the ball handlers not always dribbling to the middle of the court. This is something I learned in AAU when I was 12.

Running - simply not running hard enough

Passing - I don't have faith in anyone but Lance to make an accurate pass. Darren wants to dribble the entire length of the court instead of doing what Denver does, and advance the damn ball. He missed Granger twice. Of course Granger looked like he was jogging so...

Scheme - Gotta tip your hat to Karl here. That's a well coached team. Hopefully Vogel uses this film and shows our guys the proper way to run a break.

I'm going with this. Spacing is a main issue. But passing is also an issue. We aren't hitting guys at the right time or completely telegraphing where the pass is going and when it's coming. Lance is our best passer and getting it to guys at the right time.

Speed
02-13-2012, 12:32 PM
Its basketball 101, and it drives me crazy. Fill a lane, get the ball to the middle, jump stop at the FT line. Its Jr High stuff. #1 reason is know how. I know Vogel has to teach them this (as well as every other coach they've had from the beginning.

So ya, get a pass first point guard and that would do it, if Rondo was here, PGs point total would jump 5 points over night from easy transition buckets he would get.

PG is the fastest end to end two guard, and doing it the right way, position-wise and intuitively knowing where to be, than anyone I've ever seen, maybe.

Ya, it drive me crazy, how bad they are. Its just easy buckets being let off the scoreboard.