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vnzla81
02-10-2012, 11:46 PM
Not much to say, everybody played like crap.

imbtyler
02-10-2012, 11:47 PM
No reason to lose this game to Maureese ****ing Speights. What a disappointment.

When will Paul George emerge as a star and Danny Granger turn into something of real worth?

Dr. Hibbert
02-10-2012, 11:49 PM
I wish final 20 seconds of a game Danny Granger showed up for the rest of the game. I'll continue to say it: he's clutch as hell. He makes big shots. I would rather no one else shoot a must-hit shot on this team. But he's incredibly lazy on defense and just plays dumb basketball. That's not to say he's the only player on this team playing lazy defense or dumb basketball lately, but he's the most obvious example.

Ownagedood
02-10-2012, 11:49 PM
The worse news is we host a very good Nuggets team tomorrow.. 3 in a row?

Roy, PG, DC all struggling right now.. DG not great either.

Mourning
02-10-2012, 11:49 PM
No reason to lose this game to Maureese ****ing Speights. What a disappointment.

When will Paul George emerge as a star and Danny Granger turn into something of real worth?

Wow! :huh: Overreaction?

immortality
02-10-2012, 11:49 PM
Not that bad of a game, but we really needed someone to score down the stretch, and no one stepped up. Hibbert didn't get into good position to score. Granger v. Gay battle was fun, they were about equal until Granger got more fouls than Gay. Another scorer was needed, George Hill. Until next time.

TheDon
02-10-2012, 11:49 PM
Can some of you x's and o's guy explain the point of having your 7'2'' center try to play defense out above the 3pt line so he can routinely get burned trying to recover? I'd say that that flaw is being exploited more and more often lately and it's a big source of roy picking up some terrible touch fouls in the process.

also thanks for making the postgame thread vnzla, alot of people were giving you crap about making them.

imbtyler
02-10-2012, 11:51 PM
When will Paul George emerge as a star and Danny Granger turn into something of real worth?

Danny had five fouls, came out late in the fourth, and shot like ****, like I expected him to do because that's the Granger Way. When Paul starts playing like a mastermind, and Granger can be traded for draft picks and assets, we'll finally be good, just not this year.

What are we going to do, Pacers fans?!!? I'm so distraught!!

:pray:

Unclebuck
02-10-2012, 11:52 PM
Gasol shut down Hibbert, he would not let Roy get to his spots at all

Pacers defense made a ton of mental mistakes, lost on back door cuts, lost on pick and rolls

Really bad

Mackey_Rose
02-10-2012, 11:52 PM
That's what happens, once or twice a month, when a sub-40% shooting, black-hole, power forward gets it going against inadequate defense.

tflo
02-10-2012, 11:53 PM
Not much to say, everybody played like crap.

West and Granger looked pretty good,the rest of team sucked.

Mourning
02-10-2012, 11:53 PM
I wish final 20 seconds of a game Danny Granger showed up for the rest of the game. I'll continue to say it: he's clutch as hell. He makes big shots. I would rather no one else shoot a must-hit shot on this team. But he's incredibly lazy on defense and just plays dumb basketball.

Sure, he's not been great on D this game and the past game and like you mention not the only one, but people are awfully quick to forget pretty much the rest of the season when it comes to Danny on defense this year. We must really be looking at a different Danny Granger for the rest of the season...

odeez
02-10-2012, 11:54 PM
PERSPECTIVE - We are having a great season!

How many thought we would be 17-9 right now? That ain't too bad, especially in this crazy season. Memphis is a really good team ... they are actually better then their record. We need to get G Hill back ASAP! We need another scorer in addition to Hill and another big. Once we get more games at home we will be fine.

Unclebuck
02-10-2012, 11:54 PM
Can some of you x's and o's guy explain the point of having your 7'2'' center try to play defense out above the 3pt line so he can routinely get burned trying to recover? I'd say that that flaw is being exploited more and more often lately and it's a big source of roy picking up some terrible touch fouls in the process.

also thanks for making the postgame thread vnzla, alot of people were giving you crap about making them.

When Gasol goes ot to the three point line to run a pick and roll Roy has to go out and help on the ball handler. That is why I always like quick athletic big guys, otherwise slow centers get abused defending pickk and rolls

TheDavisBrothers
02-10-2012, 11:54 PM
Not much to say, everybody played like crap.


Danny had five fouls, came out late in the fourth, and shot like ****, like I expected him to do because that's the Granger Way. When Paul starts playing like a mastermind, and Granger can be traded for draft picks and assets, we'll finally be good, just not this year.

What are we going to do, Pacers fans?!!? I'm so distraught!!

:pray:

George played worse then Granger tonight dude

vnzla81
02-10-2012, 11:55 PM
Gasol shut down Hibbert, he would not let Roy get to his spots at all

Pacers defense made a ton of mental mistakes, lost on back door cuts, lost on pick and rolls

Really bad

Yeah Gasol is just to heavy and big for Hibbert.

vnzla81
02-10-2012, 11:56 PM
West and Granger looked pretty good,the rest of team sucked.

I take into consideration defense.

croz24
02-10-2012, 11:56 PM
We need to make a move or two. Even when beating teams we have looked awful on offense more times than not.

TheDon
02-10-2012, 11:56 PM
That's what happens, once or twice a month, when a sub-40% shooting, black-hole, power forward gets it going against inadequate defense.

sub 30% tonight

MiaDragon
02-10-2012, 11:56 PM
West and Granger looked pretty good,the rest of team sucked.

West was abused tonight.

granger4mvp
02-10-2012, 11:57 PM
Looks like the Knicks will be taking over our spot before its said and done
*

graphic-er
02-10-2012, 11:57 PM
Can some of you x's and o's guy explain the point of having your 7'2'' center try to play defense out above the 3pt line so he can routinely get burned trying to recover? I'd say that that flaw is being exploited more and more often lately and it's a big source of roy picking up some terrible touch fouls in the process.

also thanks for making the postgame thread vnzla, alot of people were giving you crap about making them.

I feel ya man, they even had Foster out there D'ing on the Iranian backup. I thought to myself, why not play the passing lanes. You don't need to go out there!

And why was Hibbert following Gasol so far out and not covering the bounce bass for those back door cuts? Gasol isn't going to take an 18fter!

Dumb Defense all night long.

Sookie
02-10-2012, 11:58 PM
None of the starters played a well all around game, and I thought Vogel made a mistake bringing back the starters so soon in the fourth. (Although he might have had to for AJ, he got hit in the head..) He also needs to use his timeouts a little better. Constructive criticism, y'all know I love Frank. :P

Kinda sucks but, really if you think about it..we didn't play well at all, and only lost by 7 in an away game. It's not the end of the world.

JBones19
02-10-2012, 11:59 PM
For as horrible as we played tonight, if we hit our FT's we win this game.

tflo
02-10-2012, 11:59 PM
Danny had five fouls, came out late in the fourth, and shot like ****, like I expected him to do because that's the Granger Way. When Paul starts playing like a mastermind, and Granger can be traded for draft picks and assets, we'll finally be good, just not this year.

What are we going to do, Pacers fans?!!? I'm so distraught!!

:pray:

Did you look at the stats.

Danny Granger, 7-15 19 PTS

Paul George, 2-13 8 PTS

odeez
02-10-2012, 11:59 PM
West was abused tonight.

Speights was hot, pretty sure he would of done that to anybody guarding him. West had a great game 22 & 13, nice!

TheDon
02-11-2012, 12:01 AM
We need to make a move or two. Even when beating teams we have looked awful on offense more times than not.

As much as we have beaten the drum about our vaunted team depth, I just don't see it... Our starters are quality players for the most part, but our bench just seems like a bunch of offensively challenged redundant bunch of players. It really seems like there is always a pair of guys that can give you the exact same thing the other could give you playing at the exact same time from our bench.

MiaDragon
02-11-2012, 12:01 AM
None of the starters played a well all around game, and I thought Vogel made a mistake bringing back the starters so soon in the fourth. (Although he might have had to for AJ, he got hit in the head..)

Kinda sucks but, really if you think about it..we didn't play well at all, and only lost by 7 in an away game. It's not the end of the world.

No but we really need to figure out where our defense went. Its becoming a nasty trend.

Infinite MAN_force
02-11-2012, 12:02 AM
No reason to lose this game to Maureese ****ing Speights. What a disappointment.

When will Paul George emerge as a star and Danny Granger turn into something of real worth?

Granger had 19 points on 47% shooting, second leading scorer and he hit 4 threes. I'm failing to see how he was the problem (admittedly I missed most of the second half) Looks like it was George and Hibbert that stunk up the place.

Haters gonna hate? :confused:

TheDon
02-11-2012, 12:03 AM
I feel ya man, they even had Foster out there D'ing on the Iranian backup. I thought to myself, why not play the passing lanes. You don't need to go out there!

And why was Hibbert following Gasol so far out and not covering the bounce bass for those back door cuts? Gasol isn't going to take an 18fter!

Dumb Defense all night long.


:ding: absolutely this post x1000000, you live with Gasol taking those 18 footers better than him cutting in and getting by hibbert for the and 1's or for him to feed some cutting player for an easy layup...I could see it coming a mile away I'm not sure why vogel didn't he was actually there. He only figured it out with 57 seconds left to go there was a switch between hibbert and west and it resulted in a jumper I believe that was missed. We could have done that all night long.

graphic-er
02-11-2012, 12:04 AM
Did you look at the stats.

Danny Granger, 7-15 19 PTS

Paul George, 2-13 8 PTS

What he is saying is that Granger just didn't take good shots. Before that nice 3 at the end. Granger just got back in the game and held the ball for 10 seconds before jab jab jumper brick sequence. Thats terrible ball right there.

TheDavisBrothers
02-11-2012, 12:04 AM
As much as we have beaten the drum about our vaunted team depth, I just don't see it... Our starters are quality players for the most part, but our bench just seems like a bunch of offensively challenged redundant bunch of players. It really seems like there is always a pair of guys that can give you the exact same thing the other could give you playing at the exact same time from our bench.

I think Hill is a big part of that "depth"

Mr_Smith
02-11-2012, 12:06 AM
Missed the game because of my second job but I DVR'd it and checked the score on my phone. I don't watch loses, so I'll just delete the clip.:( From what Mark Boyle was saying it looks like they couldn't hit shots in the 4th. I'm pretty sure there was more to it.

graphic-er
02-11-2012, 12:06 AM
Speights was hot, pretty sure he would of done that to anybody guarding him. West had a great game 22 & 13, nice!

Yes but he gave it up too easy on the other end.

MiaDragon
02-11-2012, 12:06 AM
Granger had 16 points on 47% shooting, second leading scorer and he hit 4 threes. I'm failing to see how he was the problem (admittedly I missed most of the second half) Looks like it was George and Hibbert that stunk up the place.

Haters gonna hate? :confused:

IMO it was simply a poor game from start to finish, live and learn.

croz24
02-11-2012, 12:09 AM
As much as we have beaten the drum about our vaunted team depth, I just don't see it... Our starters are quality players for the most part, but our bench just seems like a bunch of offensively challenged redundant bunch of players. It really seems like there is always a pair of guys that can give you the exact same thing the other could give you playing at the exact same time from our bench.

We have depth in the sense that when healthy, we have 7 guys who can put up points for us. But as an overall unit, our bench is not very good...

Bball
02-11-2012, 12:10 AM
What he is saying is that Granger just didn't take good shots. Before that nice 3 at the end. Granger just got back in the game and held the ball for 10 seconds before jab jab jumper brick sequence. Thats terrible ball right there.

I agree... that was a bad play in a terrible place in the game for a bad play... compounded by the fact he'd just gotten in the game so should have some self-control to realize that wasn't really a place for him to look for his own shot.

But that said, that's one play... crucial as it was... but there were many more good plays on offense by Granger.

I'm not going to mention that other crucial mistake he made on defense when he forgot he was supposed to guard someone and let them have the backdoor.

But, if Granger plays the game exactly the same and George picks up HIS game then things likely turn out different. We need more out of Paul George than we got tonight. He still needs some coaching and he needs to figure some things out. He looked like he was forcing some things out there.

And I agree with Quinn that the team needs to look for West more. It seems like they do, then he misses a couple of good looks and they forget about him. ...even though the misses aren't outweighing the makes and fouls he's drawing...

Lance George
02-11-2012, 12:12 AM
Denver's on a five-game losing streak. If we lose to those pathetic losers at our place... well, then, it may be time to get a little worried.

Nuntius
02-11-2012, 12:13 AM
The worse news is we host a very good Nuggets team tomorrow.. 3 in a row?


The Nuggets are struggling now as well. They are a good team but they're plunged with injuries. Hope they don't break their slump against us like the Hawks.

This was a very disappointing loss. Memphis is a good team but we had to win this to prove that we are a strong team that could reach the playoffs no matter which Conference we're in.

Also, we had two chances in a row to move up the standings but we blew it both times.

Reality check: The Pacers are a good team. They have proved that much during the season. But are they a great team? That's the next step that the team has to take. Prove to us that the Pacers are a great team. There are a lot of good teams in the league. Not a lot great ones, though.

PS: I'm gonna love the team even if it's just a good team. Even that is a major improvement over last year and a step forward. But we have to know where we stand.

Mr_Smith
02-11-2012, 12:13 AM
Is there any timetable on George Hill's return or is he still out indefinitely??? I read a couple days ago that his injury was not serious as once thought.

Ownagedood
02-11-2012, 12:14 AM
Denver's on a five-game losing streak. If we lose to those pathetic losers at our place... well, then, it may be time to get a little worried.

They're still a really tough team.. with a night off to study us and ready to put a stop to their losing streak, its gonna be a tough game.

TheDon
02-11-2012, 12:14 AM
We have depth in the sense that when healthy, we have 7 guys who can put up points for us. But as an overall unit, our bench is not very good...

Absolutely! even though we have depth I just don't get the feeling that we really strike fear into the hearts of anyone because of some faux depth. We've heard a lot of talk about pacers bringing it every night like we should be proud of them for doing their job, but only trouble is so is all the other teams we're playing against. I don't know it's almost like after that Mavericks game we expected the league to just collectively crap themselves at the thought of playing the Pacers.

Bball
02-11-2012, 12:15 AM
Speaking of depth... Tyler is unorthodox and as much as he pulls off more than his share of some unorthodox, circus flips to the basket, he also is very inconsistent game to game and even quarter to quarter sometimes.

I suspect that is a product of his unorthodox game and if he doesn't adjust it's only going to get worse as refs quit giving him the benefit of the doubt and opposing teams get used to him.

Lance George
02-11-2012, 12:15 AM
That's what happens, once or twice a month, when a sub-40% shooting, black-hole, power forward gets it going against inadequate defense.

Speights can be thankful that he's not so terrible that he's getting DNP-CDs on a regular basis.

TheDon
02-11-2012, 12:16 AM
Is there any timetable on George Hill's return or is he still out indefinitely??? I read a couple days ago that his injury was not serious as once thought.

Denari said tonight possibly before the all-star break, but Hill said more realistically after the All-Star break.

PaceBalls
02-11-2012, 12:20 AM
I wonder if Roy still thinks he is the best passing big man in the game after tonight?

granger4mvp
02-11-2012, 12:21 AM
Great game on nba tv tommorrow they better freakin win

Kid Minneapolis
02-11-2012, 12:24 AM
PG got beat repeatedly tonight, and shot like crap (even if he did rebound well). Hibbert was a non-factor. Our two all-star weekend guys sure pooped the bed tonight. They shoulda just fed DWest on every possession.

presto123
02-11-2012, 12:25 AM
How did we get so many inconsistent guys on the same team? You never know who's going to show up from night to night. And just when you think somebody is taking a step forward in their shooting it's two steps back again.

TheDon
02-11-2012, 12:26 AM
between Paul George and Roy Hibbert our two all-stars went a combined 3 - 20 tonight....I don't know whether to laugh or cry

kidthecat
02-11-2012, 12:31 AM
Mental mistakes or not, Danny is an All-Star before Hibbert ever is. Danny is a gamer, and he's actually got some fire in his belly. I'll forgive the occasional lax defense.

Hibbert gets out-toughed way too often... it's extremely disappointing.

Sookie
02-11-2012, 12:39 AM
How did we get so many inconsistent guys on the same team? You never know who's going to show up from night to night. And just when you think somebody is taking a step forward in their shooting it's two steps back again.

Because of our starters, we have one guy in his prime (Danny)

Three guys who have four years or less of experience, and a guy coming back from an ACL tear.

That's going to have some inconsistency attatched.

Then the bench, has four guys (when Jeff and Hill aren't playing) who have under three years of experience..and that's even stretching it, probably if you added up the time, closer to two years or less. (AJ, Tyler, Lance, Lou)

The Sleeze
02-11-2012, 12:39 AM
How did we get so many inconsistent guys on the same team? You never know who's going to show up from night to night. And just when you think somebody is taking a step forward in their shooting it's two steps back again.

I was getting ready to post this exact same thing. i don't think there is one guy on our team I am ever confident about night in and night out. Sure guys will have off nights, but some of our guys look like completely different players from game to game.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2012, 12:47 AM
No reason to lose this game to Maureese ****ing Speights.


LOL!!!!

Speights took what was GIVEN to him. Obviously, someone wasn't guarding him! AND it wasn't Troy Murphy.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2012, 12:53 AM
Gasol shut down Hibbert, he would not let Roy get to his spots at all

Pacers defense made a ton of mental mistakes, lost on back door cuts, lost on pick and rolls

Really bad


Hibbert just plain got out played by Gasol. I was really expecting to see 2 young Allstars going at each other. Unfortunately, only one did and his name wasn't Hibbert.

PGisthefuture
02-11-2012, 12:54 AM
I think our guys were a little high on themselves knowing Roy just got named as an All-Star. The guys got caught up in the moment and weren't focused on playing and seem to just be really out of it the last two games. It's not gonna be easy against the Nuggets tomorrow either. It really brings back bad memories of last year losing back-to-back games. Hope this team comes to play tomorrow, I might be in attendance.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2012, 01:16 AM
As much as we have beaten the drum about our vaunted team depth, I just don't see it... Our starters are quality players for the most part, but our bench just seems like a bunch of offensively challenged redundant bunch of players. It really seems like there is always a pair of guys that can give you the exact same thing the other could give you playing at the exact same time from our bench.


The bench depth Bird thinks the Pacers have just isn't what he thinks it is.

Foster played in his 6th game this year having missed 20 games. I don't want to hear he's here only for the playoffs. At 3 mil a year, he better be playing more than 20% of the reg season games. He's not helping win games now nor is there any guarantee he'll be available for the playoffs. He has to contribute more to help this bench and the team.

Ever since Tyler got hit in the eye, his play has suffered, and so has the bench play.

AJ Price makes me yearn to have Travis Diener back. I get so tired of watching him shoot the ball. If he garnered as many asts as shots he takes, he might be ok, but he doesn't. I give him 2 years, and he'll be out of the NBA.

Dahntay is playing well.

Hill needs to get healthy in order to give this bench some depth.

The bench needs more scoring, and it just doesn't have it currently.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2012, 01:25 AM
I think our guys were a little high on themselves knowing Roy just got named as an All-Star.

They must have not seen the memo Gasol is an Allstar, and Gay should have been.

Trader Joe
02-11-2012, 01:27 AM
Free....throws.

Trader Joe
02-11-2012, 01:35 AM
I don't mean to sound the alarm, but in a sense we just finished the first month of the season, and well that is when Roy fell off the map from a production stand point last year. I obviously don't want to panic yet, but we would be remiss if we completely ignored the fact that his offense is going in the crapper yet again right around the same time.

From January to the first few games of February, Roy's shooting % has dipped by about 4% he's averaging 2 less PPG, and almost 1 more FPG.

It's at least mildly concerning that Roy appears to be going in the dump at the exact same time (game wise at least) that he did last year.

Again not trying to say OMG, Roy is doomed! But you have to admit, it's something to keep an eye on.

Also, this is the 3rd straight game Roy will have gone without a block. What the **** is up with that?

skyfire
02-11-2012, 01:44 AM
Memphis did a good job of putting Roy in spots where he less efficient and letting gasol cover him 1on1. When he did get a good position they double teamed quickly. Smart coaching.

didn't see all of the game but what I did see there was defensive breakdowns all over the place. Not going to beat many good teams on the road defending like that.

immortality
02-11-2012, 01:45 AM
This game really showed us that we really need a third scorer to put up double digits at least in the starters, whether it be DC, Hibbert, or George. We need one of them to step up, or our "balanced attack" kind of fails, especially when we have defensive lapses like these.

Our bench kept us in the game very well tonight, both Jones and Hans, even price hitting a couple key shots, but we need another starter to step up.

Ace E.Anderson
02-11-2012, 01:45 AM
This may sound silly, but it's just a thought. Do we think about swapping Hansbrough and West as far as lineups are concerned? This would give the 2nd unit a primary scorer, while allowing Tyler to do what he does best and that's be Mr. Energy. I remember last year how well he played off the pick and pop, while also playing off of Granger and Hibbert.

Idk just a thought.

This team is really lacking in the energy/fire department. Especially at the start of games!! With our somewhat lack of talent, the aggression and energy that we play with is extremely important. Idk if there is a trade to be had, or if there is a lineup change that needs to take place, but we haven't had the same energy level since the Mavs game. I know a lot of people want to keep the team "chemistry" together, but we are just too incohesive for long stretches. Idk what we need, but it's becoming more and more apperant that if we want to capitalize on our fast start SOMETHING needs to happen/change.

CableKC
02-11-2012, 01:46 AM
We have depth in the sense that when healthy, we have 7 guys who can put up points for us. But as an overall unit, our bench is not very good...
When healthy...we have a very good Starting 7 Man unit that can compete against any other 7 man unit. The problem is that in a shortened season...we need a solid 9 man rotation to compete against the Super Teams.

I'd even add Inferno and Foster as very solid 10th and 11th Men that are the perfect roleplayers ( the perimeter defender and Rebounding Frontcourt Defender ) in our rotation....but we need a solid 8th and 9th Players ( another quality WingMan and Frontcourt Player ) to get us to that next level.

I'd like for Lance, Inferno, AJ and Amundson/Foster to be those 8th and 9th Rotational Men to get us there...but they aren't able to contribute on a high enough level to make up for those games when the Starting Lineup and GH/Hansbrough isn't "firing on all cylinders"...which appears to be more and more as of late :banghead:.

Without any changes....we are a Team that can beat mediocre and slightly above average Teams on a regular basis.....but not Teams that are underrated or above average.

Hicks
02-11-2012, 01:51 AM
Turnovers, bad defense, missed free throws. Just clean those up, and I'll live with the rest. Please.

Hoop
02-11-2012, 02:04 AM
Disappointing

CJ Jones
02-11-2012, 02:13 AM
I'm just glad Jeff Foster's back... 6 and 7 in 13 minutes.

Heisenberg
02-11-2012, 02:16 AM
Dahntay played a good solid game tonight. 95% of my posts about him are negative, so I just need to say that for karma's sake.

Psyren
02-11-2012, 02:16 AM
Say what you want, but we REALLY need another scorer.

When our offense is 'Good', its still not that great.

And when its bad? Its really bad. Everything just gets so so so stagnant

Bball
02-11-2012, 02:28 AM
Foster played in his 6th game this year having missed 20 games. I don't want to hear he's here only for the playoffs. At 3 mil a year, he better be playing more than 20% of the reg season games. He's not helping win games now nor is there any guarantee he'll be available for the playoffs. He has to contribute more to help this bench and the team.



I like Jeff Foster as a player when used properly... BUT... he needs to be available to play for us to really talk about frontline depth. Of course with Penderwhatshisname not playing at all it's hard to solely focus on Jeff as a hurting our depth and taking a roster spot yet not able to play (much).

Peck
02-11-2012, 02:55 AM
Stupid computer bit the dust so no odd thoughts tonight or tomorrow. I'm on an iPad so there is no way i am going to type all of that out on this. As to tonight's game let's just say we really haven't played a good game since Dallas. Teams have adjusted to us and now you see them not letting Roy get in position and they are pulling him away from the rim on the defensive end. It's really going to be up to frank and company to adjust to the adjustments.

Nobody played great tonight and the most troubling thing to me is we just look to be run down and start the games with zero energy. We need hill back desperately and frankly we probably need the all star break to get here.

Man we need to take out Denver. But once again they are yet another in the long line of teams we have to play after a loss, I think they are on a 3 or 4 game losing streak.

There is no need to panic, but the team has got to get going soon or there will be reason to be concerned.

Eleazar
02-11-2012, 03:24 AM
As far as depth go we do have it, but it is the kind of depth where, with exception of Roy, you can insert them into the game with 3 or 4 starters and hardly miss a beat. As a unit though it is severely lacking on the offensives side of the court, especially without Hill.

Hansbrough just isn't consistent yet.
Jones can score, but shouldn't be relied on.
Price is at his best when there are at least 2 obviously better options on the court with him, which we don't have right now.
Foster is well Foster.
Stephenson is great in transition, but otherwise he figuratively stands in the corner. If there was one guy who has the skill set to step up and take on Hill's scoring it would be Lance, but he hasn't even tried.

Put any of them in with the starters, and we wouldn't see much drop off. In some ways we might see improvement to certain aspects, but as a unit Price, Stephenson, Jones, Hansbrough, and Foster just doesn't work very well. The two best scorers of the group are of the blackhole type.

Sookie
02-11-2012, 03:32 AM
As far as depth go we do have it, but it is the kind of depth where, with exception of Roy, you can insert them into the game with 3 or 4 starters and hardly miss a beat. As a unit though it is severely lacking on the offensives side of the court, especially without Hill.

Hansbrough just isn't consistent yet.
Jones can score, but shouldn't be relied on.
Price is at his best when there are at least 2 obviously better options on the court with him, which we don't have right now.
Foster is well Foster.
Stephenson is great in transition, but otherwise he figuratively stands in the corner. If there was one guy who has the skill set to step up and take on Hill's scoring it would be Lance, but he hasn't even tried.

Put any of them in with the starters, and we wouldn't see much drop off. In some ways we might see improvement to certain aspects, but as a unit Price, Stephenson, Jones, Hansbrough, and Foster just doesn't work very well. The two best scorers of the group are of the blackhole type.

Maybe Vogel should try and stop playing them as a group, but rather stagger their time with the starters. (like he does a bit with Lance)

Dr. Hibbert
02-11-2012, 03:36 AM
Sure, he's not been great on D this game and the past game and like you mention not the only one, but people are awfully quick to forget pretty much the rest of the season when it comes to Danny on defense this year. We must really be looking at a different Danny Granger for the rest of the season...

I really feel that I've seen him play more lazy defense than good defense this year, and he's capable of great defense.

I also just don't think Granger is a smart player. I think he's a good player. I think he's a clutch player. But I don't think he's a smart player, and I don't think he's a full-effort-every-night player either.

TMJ31
02-11-2012, 03:49 AM
Disappointing loss for sure.

But as has been pointed out already, if we hit our FT's at our regular clip, we win this game. Despite the poor defense, turnovers and all.

Obviously, had we hit our FT's and turned up the effort on 'D' even slightly, this would have been a fairly easy W. But we didn't. And while that is frustrating, it is no reason to trade half the team or start believing we are lottery bound.

We got Denver tomorrow. Let's play some smart, defensive minded basketball and let the flow of the game come to us, and we will be just fine.

Go Pacers!

Asher99
02-11-2012, 03:55 AM
Upset Roy got out shined so bad in the battle on newly minted All-Star centers. Upset West had nothing for Mo Speights who went for 8-of-13 after being 8-of-32 in the other 5 games this month, also sick he got to the line more tonight than he did in those other 5 games total and matched his assists total for the month along with one upping his steal total from the same period, also upset those last two numbers came in one quarter of play.

Upset PG has lost his outside shot missing his last 8 from downtown on 16 of last 20. Upset we didn't take advantage of Tyler being bigger than Dante Cunningham in the post and upset Tyler became jumper crazy again once Haddadi was forced in after Cunningham's ejection. Upset we lost the ability to shoot FT going 42-of-60 70% over the last two games.

I'm rather shocked we lost this game and amazed we did so holding them under their average in steals and offensive rebounds and won the glass by 11 and hit 5 more from downtown. If you told me all of that along with West's line, that we won the bench battle and that Gay, Gasol or Conley didn't go off I would have bet my life on this being a Win. And if you told me what Speights did and that they actually let him play 37:27 after being in the doghouse I would have died from laughter from such an outlandish claim.

Sucks bad losing by 6 and our 2nd in a row due to seeing 59% from the field from the Speights/Allen/Pondexter trio along with a 3-for-20 night from Roy/PG on top of the 11 missed FT.

CableKC
02-11-2012, 03:55 AM
Maybe Vogel should try and stop playing them as a group, but rather stagger their time with the starters. (like he does a bit with Lance)
He's done that to a certain degree by putting Granger and PG in as the proverbial "SF" in the 2nd unit.

imawhat
02-11-2012, 03:58 AM
I knew Roy would go into a funk when he was sulking on the bench against the Magic.

Asher99
02-11-2012, 04:02 AM
Say what you want, but we REALLY need another scorer.

When our offense is 'Good', its still not that great.

And when its bad? Its really bad. Everything just gets so so so stagnant

We need a legit passer everyone in our normal 10 man rotation but Foster is a score first type player.

ndcoltsnpacers
02-11-2012, 04:04 AM
I don't mean to sound the alarm, but in a sense we just finished the first month of the season, and well that is when Roy fell off the map from a production stand point last year. I obviously don't want to panic yet, but we would be remiss if we completely ignored the fact that his offense is going in the crapper yet again right around the same time.

From January to the first few games of February, Roy's shooting % has dipped by about 4% he's averaging 2 less PPG, and almost 1 more FPG.

It's at least mildly concerning that Roy appears to be going in the dump at the exact same time (game wise at least) that he did last year.

Again not trying to say OMG, Roy is doomed! But you have to admit, it's something to keep an eye on.

Also, this is the 3rd straight game Roy will have gone without a block. What the **** is up with that?

I think we were about 17 games into the season and I started paying attention to Roy's production this season vs. last season, and even made a post about it somewhere (it was in response to the "it's time to pay Roy a max contract" discussion). It's easy to forget that he started out extremely strong last season, he was a sure fire Most Improved Player. He had actually started a bit stronger last season than he had this season statistically. It really sucks that he's having a dip in production right as he's getting his first all-star bid. The condensed season must be difficult on him though.

CableKC
02-11-2012, 04:18 AM
As far as depth go we do have it, but it is the kind of depth where, with exception of Roy, you can insert them into the game with 3 or 4 starters and hardly miss a beat. As a unit though it is severely lacking on the offensives side of the court, especially without Hill.

Hansbrough just isn't consistent yet.
Jones can score, but shouldn't be relied on.
Price is at his best when there are at least 2 obviously better options on the court with him, which we don't have right now.
Foster is well Foster.
Stephenson is great in transition, but otherwise he figuratively stands in the corner. If there was one guy who has the skill set to step up and take on Hill's scoring it would be Lance, but he hasn't even tried.

Put any of them in with the starters, and we wouldn't see much drop off. In some ways we might see improvement to certain aspects, but as a unit Price, Stephenson, Jones, Hansbrough, and Foster just doesn't work very well. The two best scorers of the group are of the blackhole type.
What does it mean when our whole lineup is dependent on GH returning to the lineup?

It means that our lineup isn't as strong as we thought.

I understand that when we have GH in the lineup.....it kicks everyone down "one rung of the ladder" in the 2nd Unit when it comes to offensive / Defensive end and what role they fill when they are on the floor together....but I think that the loss of GH only highlights the lack of quality depth that we have beyond the "Starting 7".

One thing that I have noticed.....our lack of energy and lack of "spring in our steps" is a result of the change in the rotations that Vogel has been forced to make since GH was lost to injuries and the recent inconsistent play from game to game that we have gotten from Hansbrough ( whose taken a minor step back in terms of productivity as of late ) which has resulted in playing about 3-4 mpg less a game over the last 10 games. As a result, our Starting lineup has all played an average of 2 to 5 minutes more per game ( depending on the Player ) compared to the previous months. Granger has played 38 mpg ( he averages 34 mpg ), Collison has played 37 mpg ( he averages 34 mpg ) and Hibbert has played 34 mpg ( he averages 30 mpg ) over the last 5 games. Now, one may think that a 2 to 5 mpg doesn't mean much......but in a shortened season...add in that ( at most ) the Team has less and less time to rest between games and the increased # of B2B games...and the fatigue will start to build up.

When Key Players get injured...it's expected for the rest of the lineup to adjust. But in a shortened season where there are very few days where you get more than a day off ad there are far more B2B games......I'd prefer to have better quality depth at all key positions so that we don't have to give more minutes to key Players since it is harder to rest from game to game.

As Hicks said....the Team ( if not the league ) can't wait for GH to return and for the ASB to get here.

CJ Jones
02-11-2012, 04:19 AM
I just want to add one more thing and I'll leave it alone... I thought the play after Granger's steal (which should have been Lance's btw), when he missed Lance on the fast break, was rather embarrassing. It took him 3 dribbles with his head down before he realized what was going on :shakehead. Yeah, he eventually got it to him, but a player at this level shouldn't do that.

MrHale
02-11-2012, 05:06 AM
We need a legit passer everyone in our normal 10 man rotation but Foster is a score first type player.

Do u even watch the games? If anything most our guys are to hesitant and are very willin passers so I disagree with everyone is a score first player.I wish lance would attack more but I'm sure its just not his role.

joeyd
02-11-2012, 05:40 AM
Foster played in his 6th game this year having missed 20 games. I don't want to hear he's here only for the playoffs. At 3 mil a year, he better be playing more than 20% of the reg season games. He's not helping win games now nor is there any guarantee he'll be available for the playoffs. He has to contribute more to help this bench and the team.

I agree that we need Jeff for the regular season, but to say that he has to contribute more is pretty silly. In his first game back he gets 6 points and 7 rebounds in less than 13 minutes. He did more than Roy did tonight with more than twice the minutes. What we really need is consistent (and better) play out of our starters on both ends of the court.

Asher99
02-11-2012, 05:47 AM
Do u even watch the games? If anything most our guys are to hesitant and are very willin passers so I disagree with everyone is a score first player.I wish lance would attack more but I'm sure its just not his role.

What-da-Hale!?!

I watch all the Pacers games but have no idea who you've been watching but it must not be the Pacers if you can't see we have 10 guys on this team who would rather score than anything else.

Final year NCAA PPG/Player/Team Ranking
21.5 Hill 1st
20.7 Hansbrough 1st
20.1 West 1st
18.8 Granger 1st
17.7 Jones 1st
16.8 George 1st
14.7 Price 1st
14.4 DC 2nd by .1 PPG 1st Total points
13.4 Hibbert 1st
12.3 Stephenson 1st

Other than Jeff who has been programed in his role for over a decade now we have a roster full of players who are born scorers. We have a legit shot at finishing dead last in Assists this year!

McKeyFan
02-11-2012, 09:37 AM
I think our guys were a little high on themselves knowing Roy just got named as an All-Star.
Yep.

Roy getting named All Star and also the general talk now at TNT and NBA channel and ESPN about the Pacers. They're being discussed. Barkley is complaining that we didn't have more All Star representation. Quips are being made about Vogel being coach of the year.

It's like runs in games. One team gets hot, human nature causes you to rest on your laurels. That's what is happening to the Pacers. They got hot, got some recognition, enjoyed it too much, and suffered a few losses.

I believe in Vogel. I think he'll turn this ship around soon. If he does, then he truly will be in the running for Coach of the Year.

McKeyFan
02-11-2012, 09:41 AM
Foster played in his 6th game this year having missed 20 games. I don't want to hear he's here only for the playoffs. At 3 mil a year, he better be playing more than 20% of the reg season games. He's not helping win games now nor is there any guarantee he'll be available for the playoffs. He has to contribute more to help this bench and the team.
I'd like Foster for the regular season too.

However, I guarantee you that come playoff time we will all be singing Bird's praises for keeping Foster around. The guy is a gamer and he is made for playoff basketball.

Now, if he is injured during the playoffs, then, yes, we lost the gamble.

D-BONE
02-11-2012, 09:43 AM
Memphis is not a good team right now. Should have been a win. Play any semblance of D and you win.

Our O this season makes me nauseous, but more concerning is steep drop of in Consistent D as year has progressed. DG, PG, DJ all beaten multiple times by the Gasol to back door cutter layup. Inexcusable!

Just because DG shot around 50% does not mean he played a good overall game. In fact, nobody played well if we're talking well rounded performance.

McKeyFan
02-11-2012, 09:46 AM
Stupid computer bit the dust so no odd thoughts tonight or tomorrow. I'm on an iPad so there is no way i am going to type all of that out on this. As to tonight's game let's just say we really haven't played a good game since Dallas. Teams have adjusted to us and now you see them not letting Roy get in position and they are pulling him away from the rim on the defensive end. It's really going to be up to frank and company to adjust to the adjustments.

Nobody played great tonight and the most troubling thing to me is we just look to be run down and start the games with zero energy. We need hill back desperately and frankly we probably need the all star break to get here.

Man we need to take out Denver. But once again they are yet another in the long line of teams we have to play after a loss, I think they are on a 3 or 4 game losing streak.

There is no need to panic, but the team has got to get going soon or there will be reason to be concerned.
How about a video report?

:happydanc

McKeyFan
02-11-2012, 09:49 AM
Stephenson is great in transition, but otherwise he figuratively stands in the corner. If there was one guy who has the skill set to step up and take on Hill's scoring it would be Lance, but he hasn't even tried.

I think you mean "literally." Usually it's an exaggeration, but not in this case.

I agree with your post, btw.

D-BONE
02-11-2012, 09:50 AM
Also, and it's way obvious, but when is our O going to realize it's all about movement and execute accordingly? Too much one pass and shoot.

Cubs231721
02-11-2012, 09:56 AM
To put things in perspective,

Memphis is 14-13 despite playing the 2nd hardest schedule in the league so far according to Sagarin (they've lost to Oklahoma City and San Antonio a combined 6 times already, they split with the Bulls, beat Houston, Denver, and Atlanta, etc.) Their record should improve as their schedule gets softer. They are 9-4 at home and the only two teams to beat them at home so far are Oklahoma City and San Antonio.

Plus they're only allowing 91.7 points per game which in the West and playing that schedule is pretty impressive. This was very likely going to be a game the Pacers struggled offensively in.

As for the Pacers schedule, they are 26 games in and they have already crossed the halfway mark in number of road games. Tomorrow night in their 27th game they'll have hit the halfway mark of playing teams that are currently over .500. The Pacers still have a pretty good amount of games against the top contenders left, but other then that their schedule has been harder so far than it will be the rest of the year.

I would agree the Pacers didn't play their A game tonight. Against a lesser team the Pacers B or C game might have been enough. Against a good team who plays well on their home floor, it wasn't. But I was impressed that the Pacers were right there despite feeling like they struggled the entire game.

I do think the rotations need to be mixed up a bit though. I don't think George is the right player to be the primary option in the 2nd unit. That causes him to go to his weakest areas (trying to attack off the dribble in the halfcourt or come off screens to shoot moving jump shots). Personally, I'd switch him and Granger. That will give George more time with the first unit that can get him open looks at 3's or transition buckets and Granger can have a few minutes where he is the primary guy. When Hill comes back this might not be as big of a concern though.

I Love P
02-11-2012, 11:54 AM
I was the guy behind the Grizzlies' bench.

Hicks
02-11-2012, 01:13 PM
I knew Roy would go into a funk when he was sulking on the bench against the Magic.

Like he did against Utah, right?

...

BringJackBack
02-11-2012, 01:18 PM
Paul George played very bad, but for the first time tonight I saw him have the ability to create his own shot like it's nothing... So that's good in of itself.

We need a point guard that can distribute so that we can get Roy the ball and get our guys open shots and it can most certainly happen...

imawhat
02-11-2012, 01:23 PM
Like he did against Utah, right?

...

Yes, like against Utah. His numbers from that game are way better than he played, IMO. Same with his Atlanta box score; it was better than he played.

Like someone else said it looks like conditioning problems but he's not trying for some reason. I thought JOB was the coach last night because I saw too much Roy above the elbow (and sometimes three point line) on offense. It's one thing to have a few off nights and another to stop trying. Roy had been.fighting for post position even when unsuccessful and lately he's stopped.

BillS
02-11-2012, 01:36 PM
I thought JOB was the coach last night because I saw too much Roy above the elbow (and sometimes three point line) on offense. It's one thing to have a few off nights and another to stop trying. Roy had been.fighting for post position even when unsuccessful and lately he's stopped.

Could it be that they are trying to figure out a way to counter what other teams with strong centers are throwing at Roy on defense?

Naah, that's impossible, we all know that whatever works in the first few weeks of the season only stops working because someone stops trying...

BringJackBack
02-11-2012, 01:39 PM
Vogel would not stop having Roy be the focal point of the offense. It's not him. No way, his main objective as the Pacers coach towards the players was making Roy get the touches he deserves.

It has to be the players.. We are running pick n rolls and screens and not looking for Roy.

imawhat
02-11-2012, 01:48 PM
Could it be that they are trying to figure out a way to counter what other teams with strong centers are throwing at Roy on defense?

Naah, that's impossible, we all know that whatever works in the first few weeks of the season only stops working because someone stops trying...

I don't think he's being advised to stand around.

Also, pretty sure every opponents' game plan has "Stop Roy" listed at #1 or #2. The book's been out on how to stop him since his rookie season, but I think he's played well this season because he's stronger but more importantly he's been very persistent about getting position after getting denied. That's what has disappeared.

Sookie
02-11-2012, 02:20 PM
What does it mean when our whole lineup is dependent on GH returning to the lineup?

It means that our lineup isn't as strong as we thought.

I understand that when we have GH in the lineup.....it kicks everyone down "one rung of the ladder" in the 2nd Unit when it comes to offensive / Defensive end and what role they fill when they are on the floor together....but I think that the loss of GH only highlights the lack of quality depth that we have beyond the "Starting 7".

One thing that I have noticed.....our lack of energy and lack of "spring in our steps" is a result of the change in the rotations that Vogel has been forced to make since GH was lost to injuries and the recent inconsistent play from game to game that we have gotten from Hansbrough ( whose taken a minor step back in terms of productivity as of late ) which has resulted in playing about 3-4 mpg less a game over the last 10 games. As a result, our Starting lineup has all played an average of 2 to 5 minutes more per game ( depending on the Player ) compared to the previous months. Granger has played 38 mpg ( he averages 34 mpg ), Collison has played 37 mpg ( he averages 34 mpg ) and Hibbert has played 34 mpg ( he averages 30 mpg ) over the last 5 games. Now, one may think that a 2 to 5 mpg doesn't mean much......but in a shortened season...add in that ( at most ) the Team has less and less time to rest between games and the increased # of B2B games...and the fatigue will start to build up.

When Key Players get injured...it's expected for the rest of the lineup to adjust. But in a shortened season where there are very few days where you get more than a day off ad there are far more B2B games......I'd prefer to have better quality depth at all key positions so that we don't have to give more minutes to key Players since it is harder to rest from game to game.

As Hicks said....the Team ( if not the league ) can't wait for GH to return and for the ASB to get here.

No, it means that our lineup doesn't have any scorers (well one)

But people have short memories. When GH was healthy, the bench was still having problems, because there was no point guard playing.

The truth is, we need both Price and Hill playing in the rotation. I know people don't like AJ and would rather see Lance play. But Lance has proven he's not ready to play backup PG, and he's not being productive as a backup SG. (Although, he's been better at that spot)

That's not to say Lance hasn't been productive. He's proven to me, that he's very good in transition. And he tries to bring energy to the team. But he can't run an offense, he can't take care of the ball, and he's struggling to score.

AJ has played well the past two games, and was fantastic when played next to Hill. He's getting the ball to Tyler almost every time down the floor, moving the ball, taking care of the ball, and playing excellent defense. There's just no scorers on the bench, particularly when Tyler is off. His problem has been his shooting/scoring. (Someone needs to explain how such a pretty jump shot is so inaccurate) -which won't be a problem next to Hill. As Eleazer said, he needs more scorers on the floor with him.

With Hill and AJ on the floor, the floor opens up for Tyler, he's also likely to get the ball in better spots, because those two together have ball movement "with purpose." (Unlike now, where everybody, including the other team, is pretty darn aware that we want Tyler to take the shot. )

Foster's obviously not going to score, other than offensive rebounds and putbacks. And Dahntay can get it going when he needs to, but even he has been struggling to score as of late.

So yes, it's struggling without Hill because we need a scorer. But people have forgotten - for whatever reason- that before, it was struggling because there was no point guard..

edit: and if the Pacers really don't want to play AJ, they're going to need a backup PG for the bench unit. Period.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2012, 02:22 PM
I agree that we need Jeff for the regular season, but to say that he has to contribute more is pretty silly. In his first game back he gets 6 points and 7 rebounds in less than 13 minutes.


That's exactly what I was saying. Foster played and Foster contribute. When being dressed in civies and not playing, he isn't contributing to making the bench better nor helping the Pacers win. He needs to be playing to get the max out of him this year, not sitting on a shelf, then getting him down and dusting him off for the playoffs. He's not an antique that you put on a shelf in the closet only to bring it out when you have company to show it's value to others. His value is in his playing and helping this team now.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2012, 02:57 PM
struggling because there was no point guard..



IMO, the only pg on this team is DC. Lance nor Hill are NOT true PG's, but combo guards. Price apparently feels he's a SG with emphasize on the shooting part. This team needs a PG that is a pass 1st, get others involved, and shoot last PG. A PG that understands the true PG role is to facilitate and values the concept of getting others the ball to score points thus creating an assist.

I'm tired of watching Price pound the ball, been there done that with Travis Best, while the shot clock runs down only to make a hail Mary shot b4 a shot clock violation occurrs. The bench needs a true PG to facilitate and make the bench better. I wish I knew where Bird could find this elusive creature, but off hand I don't. What I do know is something has to change in regards to a b/u PG, and it has to change for the better soon.

Sookie
02-11-2012, 03:10 PM
IMO, the only pg on this team is DC. Lance nor Hill are NOT true PG's, but combo guards. Price apparently feels he's a SG with emphasize on the shooting part. This team needs a PG that is a pass 1st, get others involved, and shoot last PG. A PG that understands the true PG role is to facilitate and values the concept of getting others the ball to score points thus creating an assist.

I'm tired of watching Price pound the ball, been there done that with Travis Best, while the shot clock runs down only to make a hail Mary shot b4 a shot clock violation occurrs. The bench needs a true PG to facilitate and make the bench better. I wish I knew where Bird could find this elusive creature, but off hand I don't. What I do know is something has to change in regards to a b/u PG, and it has to change for the better soon.

except that's not what he does.

Sometimes he dribbles a little while, because he's patient, and trying to get the ball to Tyler. And sometimes he gives the ball up quickly, once again, because someone has a good angle to get get it to Tyler, or because he has a good angle to Tyler.

But if Tyler doesn't get a shot, that means usually, he's got to create something with five seconds left. There's not much you can do with that.

Offense isn't going to look pretty, regardless of the backup PG, unless there's some scorers out there. Why we need Hill.

AJ's actually played well the past two games. He's missed some shots, but he's played well. He's doing what he's supposed to do, the bench just struggles to score.

McKeyFan
02-11-2012, 03:15 PM
This team needs a PG that is a pass 1st, get others involved, and shoot last PG. A PG that understands the true PG role is to facilitate and values the concept of getting others the ball to score points thus creating an assist.
I actually think all these qualities apply to DC. He has been great this year in his attitude and focus.

He just doesn't have the court vision and ability to do pass first well.

spazzxb
02-11-2012, 06:55 PM
I just want to add one more thing and I'll leave it alone... I thought the play after Granger's steal (which should have been Lance's btw), when he missed Lance on the fast break, was rather embarrassing. It took him 3 dribbles with his head down before he realized what was going on :shakehead. Yeah, he eventually got it to him, but a player at this level shouldn't do that.

Danny actually apologized to Lance after that. He said he couldn't get a hold of the ball.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

CJ Jones
02-11-2012, 07:24 PM
Danny actually apologized to Lance after that. He said he couldn't get a hold of the ball.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

Ah, that makes more sense. It looked like he never saw him.

My bad Danny.