PDA

View Full Version : Some intersting tidbits on Pacers



90'sNBARocked
02-09-2012, 02:51 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-with-lang-greene-2812

Cricket


If you were starting a team from scratch, which player do you choose and why: Greg Monroe, David Lee, Roy Hibbert , or Joakim Noah

Lang Greene

Roy Hibbert. He has an extremely strong work ethic. Great size. Good citizen. I choose him over Monroe slightly because I believe Hibbert wants to be an elite player, he told me that last year. I feel it the way he approaches his game.

Monroe fits the same profile as Hibbert but I just don’t see the extra gear … yet. It’s still early.


Cain

Is the omly thing stopping Paul George from being a Star staying out of early foul trouble and staying on the court? When he gets 11-13points he has usually got in early foul touble and his 20+ points he plays clean.

Lang Greene

My man Cain … You know what’s stopping Paul George from truly breaking out? The presence of Danny Granger. As long as Granger is one the roster you’ll see George playing out of position at certain spots and deferring to the more established veteran.


John

hey lang, what will you remember the most about nash on and off the court when he hangs it up?

Lang Greene

A point guard who gets it … one of the last of a dying breed. Love his game …



Hurricane Game

With the rumors of a possible Gasol for Rondo deal, is it time for the pacers to jump in and claim their pg of the future? they tried to get him earlier in the year with their “cp3″ proposal, and now apparently, he will be on the market again if the celtics arent contenders by the deadline.

the pacers can offer alot to the celtics, they can completely consume his contract for a few picks and the celtics dont have to take back any salary. or they can make a deal giving the celtics collison and picks for rondo

or they could even take a much bigger step and trade collison and george for allen and rondo, would be a great deal for the celts and they would save cap, but i doubt the pacers would want to deal both george and collison for rondo and allen, but should they step in and be agressive for rondo?

adding him to their team makes them automatic contenders in the east for years, any chance this happens?

Steve Kyler

No adding Rondo won;t make the Pacers instant contenders… He might make them better, but he may also make them worse too.

Rondo is a tough personality to deal with… he is gruff and stubborn and tends to do things his own way… not sure that fits what Indiana is doing. They have a real three musketeer thing going…

As for guard of the future, the Pacers have him… his name is Darren Collison.

Darren Collison is averaging 11.8 points on 43.2% shooting from the field. He is hitting 42.5% of his threes and 84.4% of his foul shots while handing out 5.4 assist a game.

Rondo is averaging 13.6 points on 50.3% shooting from the field. He is hitting 25% of his threes and 59% of his foul shots while handing out 9.8 assist a game and is about $8.5 million more expensive.

Not sure there is enough of a difference to say Rondo is a landslide upgrade over Collison.

spreedom
02-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Thinking DC2 is anywhere close to being the player that Rondo is, is a good way to tell who watches the games and who only reads the box scores afterward.

One guy (Collison) is an AVERAGE starting point guard in the NBA. Average, at best, in my opinion.

Rondo is an elite defensive player who has been the best player on a legit contender for at least two years, and just happens to be averaging close to twice the assists of Kyler's "point guard of the future."

If we give up anything less than a core piece to get Rondo, we get way better with Rondo. Immeasurably better, if you ask me. As in a legitimate contender and not just a very good team so far.

Unclebuck
02-09-2012, 03:09 PM
I am not here to defend Rondo or Collison, or to get into a discussion about the two players, but I think to compare the stats of Rondo and Collison and use that as the basis to suggest that there isn't much difference between the two players is just wrong.

yoadknux
02-09-2012, 03:44 PM
What he said about George & Granger could be interesting, though I didn't quite notice it yet.
What he said about Rondo vs Collison.. Made no sense at all. :rolleyes:

PR07
02-09-2012, 03:51 PM
I don't really put much stock into Hoopsworld writers credibility, but it is nice to hear some outside opinions.

As for Granger stunting George's growth, I don't really see it. If George wants his shots, they are there...Granger hasn't stunted PG's growth anymore than he's stunted Hibbert's who has taken off.

Also, don't think stats tell the whole picture between Rondo and Collison. For one, Rondo has been battling an injury. Two, Rondo is a defensive force.

CableKC
02-09-2012, 03:57 PM
About PG playing out of position.....is it better for him to play next to Granger?

I actually like having a super-tall, lanky and long Player like PG that is quick enough and pesky enough to guard the opposing SGs as he creates a mis-match on both ends of the floor....especially on the defensive end.

I think that as long as PG is quick and nimble enough to play next to another SF in the Wing rotation...then I prefer the current role that he fills.

I can see arguments that PG is being held back on the offensive end when it comes to playing next to Granger....but if Granger is ever moved...I really hope that we get back a quality Starting SF so that PG can continue to do what he is doing....pestering smaller Guards on both ends of the floor.

picasso
02-09-2012, 04:00 PM
I don't really put much stock into Hoopsworld writers credibility, but it is nice to hear some outside opinions.

As for Granger stunting George's growth, I don't really see it. If George wants his shots, they are there...Granger hasn't stunted PG's growth anymore than he's stunted Hibbert's who has taken off.

Also, don't think stats tell the whole picture between Rondo and Collison. For one, Rondo has been battling an injury. Two, Rondo is a defensive force.

Plus he would have more assist if he's teammates weren't 80 years old. When he takes off for a fast break no one is near him. Leaving him to stop and wait.


But DC's shooting >>>>>>>>>> Rondos. Period. But Rondo is the better passer and as you said a bigger defensive force.

Sparhawk
02-09-2012, 04:19 PM
Plus he would have more assist if he's teammates weren't 80 years old. When he takes off for a fast break no one is near him. Leaving him to stop and wait.


But DC's shooting >>>>>>>>>> Rondos. Period. But Rondo is the better passer and as you said a bigger defensive force.

We have guys that can shoot. I'd rather have a point that can pass and defend at a high level. Not just pass. But to have great court vision and hit players when they are in position. I see DC constantly not seeing guys open or get them the ball in time before a defender closes in.

If the Pacers had Rondo...Our D would be elite. And it's already pretty damn good.

I just don't see how we could get Rondo without having to offer up some good players. I'd be willing to do DC and picks, but that wouldn't even be close to enough. There would have to be a 3rd team involved.

fwpacerfan
02-09-2012, 04:31 PM
This is why I would think long and hard about trading for Rondo: "Rondo is a tough personality to deal with… he is gruff and stubborn and tends to do things his own way… not sure that fits what Indiana is doing."

I agree with him - this Pacer team is about chemistry and if you put Rondo and his sporadic attitude on this team it may make this team worse, not better.

Sparhawk
02-09-2012, 04:39 PM
This is why I would think long and hard about trading for Rondo: "Rondo is a tough personality to deal with… he is gruff and stubborn and tends to do things his own way… not sure that fits what Indiana is doing."

I agree with him - this Pacer team is about chemistry and if you put Rondo and his sporadic attitude on this team it may make this team worse, not better.

If Bird and team can get Lance to do a 180, I'm sure they can make Rondo understand what they are trying to do here.

Having said that, I think that's probably the reason the Pacers aren't targeting Rondo. You'd think there would at least be some rumors.

beast23
02-09-2012, 04:51 PM
This is why I would think long and hard about trading for Rondo: "Rondo is a tough personality to deal with… he is gruff and stubborn and tends to do things his own way… not sure that fits what Indiana is doing."

I agree with him - this Pacer team is about chemistry and if you put Rondo and his sporadic attitude on this team it may make this team worse, not better.
Yes, it would certainly be a risk. If things worked out, there would be a pretty big upgrade in the position and in the overall performance of the starting unit.

If things didn't work out, then we are holding a fire sale for Rondo and looking for our next PG in this summer's FA availability.

It seems like it is high risk - high reward. But if we were wrong, we would really be scrambling.

I see it as a little different than in trying to get Nash. Nash doesn't offer the defense of Rondo, but has always seemed to be a decent teammate. The problem there is whether he could be re-signed in the summer... and of course his age.

I know it's getting old... but I'd still rather take may chances on trying to get Hinrich this summer to supplement Collison.

As far as Granger holding George back... I think the author is way off base.

neosmndrew
02-09-2012, 06:01 PM
Rondo was lucky enough to develop around 2 future hall of famers and one borderline HOF-er (pierce if you were curious). 2 of those players spread the floor so well that you could drive a crusieliner down the lane in many Celtics games, and still Rondo clunks up bricks 2-3 times a game, often more. I am nowhere near as high on Rondo as most people are. He is much quicker than DC is, but that is about it IMO. They are similar ball handlers, Rondo is probably only marginally better at passing with a worse team, and DC is obviously a much better shooter. Rondo is a better player, but not by very much IMO.

90'sNBARocked
02-09-2012, 06:05 PM
I am not here to defend Rondo or Collison, or to get into a discussion about the two players, but I think to compare the stats of Rondo and Collison and use that as the basis to suggest that there isn't much difference between the two players is just wrong.

Its n ot the end all, but when both players get roughly the same minutes as the starter on a well performing team, there is SOME substance there in my opinion

90'sNBARocked
02-09-2012, 09:06 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-with-joel-brigham-2912


Mike

Why aren’t more people pointing to the sixers instead of the thunder as the model for rebuilding a team thru the draft. Seeing as guys like Durant and Westbrook aren’t available in every draft.



Joel Brigham

Personally, I think Indiana should be looked as the paragon for rebuilding in the draft. Check this out: Paul George (10th), Danny Granger (17th), Tyler Hansbrough (13th), and Roy Hibbert (17th). Those are all guys they’ve drafted despite finishing right in the middle of the pack each and every year. It’s almost impossible to rebuild a team like that, but they’ve done it, and probably even a little better than even Philly has. Though both those teams are in good shape.
The reason OKC is seen as having better management is because they’ve made all the right financial decisions. I mean like, aaaallll the right financial decisions. They never would’ve signed Brand to the contract he got, for example. Yes, Iguodala and Holiday and Young are great draftees, but Brand kind of negates all that. Big picture, OKC has made the right high picks and been smart about everything else while those guys developed. Indy and Philly have had a rockier road.



Mac

If you were starting a team tomorrow, who do you take and why: Paul George, Loul Deng or Josh Smith



Mark Nugent

George. I think he has the most upside. He can play three positions, can guard three positions, can shoot the three, and is starting to develop an iso game. He’s going to be very good. I love Deng, and SMith is who he is, but George has serious upside.

ksuttonjr76
02-09-2012, 09:19 PM
Granger is holding PG back? The offense is built on sharing the ball, but I take comfort in knowing that George can score if the offense is shifted in his direction.

Pacer Fan
02-09-2012, 10:13 PM
No adding Rondo won;t make the Pacers instant contenders… He might make them better, but he may also make them worse too.

Rondo is a tough personality to deal with… he is gruff and stubborn and tends to do things his own way… not sure that fits what Indiana is doing. They have a real three musketeer thing going…

As for guard of the future, the Pacers have him… his name is Darren Collison.

Darren Collison is averaging 11.8 points on 43.2% shooting from the field. He is hitting 42.5% of his threes and 84.4% of his foul shots while handing out 5.4 assist a game.

Rondo is averaging 13.6 points on 50.3% shooting from the field. He is hitting 25% of his threes and 59% of his foul shots while handing out 9.8 assist a game and is about $8.5 million more expensive.

Not sure there is enough of a difference to say Rondo is a landslide upgrade over Collison.


I think some of you missed the big picture here and went to the basis of stats, leaving out what the entire big picture is. As I have said before on here. DC is one of the best bangs for the buck in the league for a PG. 8.5mil sure can be spent elsewhere to strengthen this team (bench). Not to mention DC out played him in both games they played against each other and Rondo's so called awesome defense didn't stop DC, yet DC kept him under control.

TheDavisBrothers
02-09-2012, 10:18 PM
Rondo was lucky enough to develop around 2 future hall of famers and one borderline HOF-er (pierce if you were curious). 2 of those players spread the floor so well that you could drive a crusieliner down the lane in many Celtics games, and still Rondo clunks up bricks 2-3 times a game, often more. I am nowhere near as high on Rondo as most people are. He is much quicker than DC is, but that is about it IMO. They are similar ball handlers, Rondo is probably only marginally better at passing with a worse team, and DC is obviously a much better shooter. Rondo is a better player, but not by very much IMO.

Pierce is the best player out of the 3 IMO, how is he borderline? He's a lock for the hof

neosmndrew
02-09-2012, 11:57 PM
Pierce is the best player out of the 3 IMO, how is he borderline? He's a lock for the hof

He's also the youngest of the 3.

TheDavisBrothers
02-10-2012, 12:07 AM
He's also the youngest of the 3.

So? He's been in the league plenty long enough for me to see that he's hof worthy

Jessen
02-10-2012, 02:34 AM
I don't think I will ever understand the tenacity at which this board attacks DC... Part of me believes that even if we had CP3, people would ***** about how we should trade for a new point guard like Ricky Rubio. :laugh:

Seriously though, DC is a good starting point guard. He will most likely never have "amazing" steve nash vision, but he is an excellent play maker when he has that aggressive mindset. The type of point guard this board wants is incredibly unrealistic to attain, at the moment, unless you want to completely gut this team.

I believe that the Pacers truly think that Lance is that great point guard of the future who can set up plays and make spectacular passes after driving the lane.

daschysta
02-10-2012, 02:45 AM
Rondo was lucky enough to develop around 2 future hall of famers and one borderline HOF-er (pierce if you were curious). 2 of those players spread the floor so well that you could drive a crusieliner down the lane in many Celtics games, and still Rondo clunks up bricks 2-3 times a game, often more. I am nowhere near as high on Rondo as most people are. He is much quicker than DC is, but that is about it IMO. They are similar ball handlers, Rondo is probably only marginally better at passing with a worse team, and DC is obviously a much better shooter. Rondo is a better player, but not by very much IMO.

Pierce is the second all-time leading scorer for the Celtics. He's a mortal lock.

CJ Jones
02-10-2012, 05:30 AM
About PG playing out of position.....is it better for him to play next to Granger?



I'm not convinced on defense having Paul chase SG's is the best use of his skills in the long run. He has great rebounding instincts (watch what he does after a shot goes up compared to Danny), and he'd be able to freelance more to rebound, block shots and get steals (like LeBron) if he played SF and didn't have to chase guards around all the time.

Offensively, unless we get pure point or Lance finally gets it, I'd say we'd be better off with a more traditional SG (Gordon?:devil:) that can play D, handle the ball and help create offense with Darren.

... as always JMO

Mackey_Rose
02-10-2012, 11:27 AM
I think some of you missed the big picture here and went to the basis of stats, leaving out what the entire big picture is. As I have said before on here. DC is one of the best bangs for the buck in the league for a PG. 8.5mil sure can be spent elsewhere to strengthen this team (bench). Not to mention DC out played him in both games they played against each other and Rondo's so called awesome defense didn't stop DC, yet DC kept him under control.

This big picture that everyone is missing out on, how big is it? Evidently, "the big picture" means looking at 2012-2013, and nothing beyond that. After this season, Collison has just one year left on his contract. What kind of money do you think he'll be expecting? It absolutely will not be the same as what he's currently making on his rookie deal.

You can say that DC is one of the best bangs for the buck, right now. However, the numbers of bucks we are paying for the bang, is going to jump significantly, very soon, if we decide to keep him. Any starter on a rookie contract is going to be a great value with the way the rookie scale was set up.

The best bang for our buck on the team by a wide margin, right now, is Roy Hibbert. Do you think we're going to be able to lock him in to a long-term deal at a similar number to what he's earning now? Of course not. Now, obviously Collison won't be able to command even close to what Roy will, but he's going to want a lot more than he is getting paid on the rookie scale.

DC may be a good value right now, but Rondo is possibly the best, non-max level, value contract in the entire NBA. He's locked-in for another 3 seasons after this year at $11, $12, and $13 million each season. If you're trading for Rondo, you're getting an elite point guard, for a long-term, sub-elite level contract. If that isn't a good thing for the bottom-line and the "big picture," I don't know what is.

Of course that's also why I can't possibly understand why Boston would consider trading him, but that's another story.

vnzla81
02-10-2012, 11:35 AM
"the big picture" :spitout:

neosmndrew
02-10-2012, 01:52 PM
If it wasn't obvious, I hate the Celtics. KG and Ray Allen had fantastic careers outside Boston, and contributed to a title once they got there. Pierce could not win when he was the undisputed best player on the court, and he has a knack for faking injuries (alright, he only did it once, but I still hate him for that).

The fact remains that Rondo is more of a product of his teammates than is own talent/work ethic. Not saying he is bad, just not a top 5 PG on a bad team.

Ownagedood
02-10-2012, 02:10 PM
Of course Rondo is way better than DC.. But he's got an attitude problem and as mentioned is $8.5 Million more expensive than DC.. He's not worth that much to us. We can keep DC and add a good player with that money. I would like to have a true PG running the show too, but picking on Collison so much like some of you guys have is just criminal. He's not gonna be great, face that and then stop placing blame on him. He's not an All-Star, there are only 4 or 5 of those in the league. Not having a PG with great vision and set up skills hurts, but you cant have it all, especially at the price and production level we get DC at.

90'sNBARocked
02-10-2012, 05:46 PM
Hurricane Game

With the rumors of a possible Gasol for Rondo deal, is it time for the pacers to jump in and claim their pg of the future? they tried to get him earlier in the year with their “cp3″ proposal, and now apparently, he will be on the market again if the celtics arent contenders by the deadline.

the pacers can offer alot to the celtics, they can completely consume his contract for a few picks and the celtics dont have to take back any salary. or they can make a deal giving the celtics collison and picks for rondo

or they could even take a much bigger step and trade collison and george for allen and rondo, would be a great deal for the celts and they would save cap, but i doubt the pacers would want to deal both george and collison for rondo and allen, but should they step in and be agressive for rondo?

adding him to their team makes them automatic contenders in the east for years, any chance this happens?

Alex Kennedy

The Pacers love Rondo and, as you mentioned, attempted to acquire him earlier this year. However, talks between the Celtics and Pacers didn’t go anywhere. I’m not sure Indiana has the pieces to get it done. Also, it’s hard to imagine Indiana making a blockbuster deal when they currently sit a 17-8, fourth place in the East.


Cain

Hey Alex, who would rather have on your team now and in 3-4years Paul George or Evan Turner? How good can these two be individually?

Alex Kennedy

I’d go with Paul George. I’m a huge fan of his game. Later this afternoon, I have an article dropping about George’s improvement. I truly believe the sky is the limit for him. He’s 21 years old and has all of the tools to be a top player. More importantly, he has an insane work ethic and wants to be great.

Nice :)

TheDavisBrothers
02-10-2012, 07:10 PM
If it wasn't obvious, I hate the Celtics. KG and Ray Allen had fantastic careers outside Boston, and contributed to a title once they got there. Pierce could not win when he was the undisputed best player on the court, and he has a knack for faking injuries (alright, he only did it once, but I still hate him for that).

The fact remains that Rondo is more of a product of his teammates than is own talent/work ethic. Not saying he is bad, just not a top 5 PG on a bad team.

Ray and KG couldn't win when they were the best players on their team either so that arguement is useless