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docpaul
02-08-2012, 03:43 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/FuturePowerRankings-1-120208/1-5

We're ranked fifth in the league.




5. Indiana Pacers | Future Power Rating: 748

PLAYERS: 399 (7th)
MANAGEMENT: 130 (10th)
MONEY: 141 (7th)
MARKET: 41 (18th)
DRAFT: 37 (20th)

We continue to get more excited about the roster Larry Bird and David Morway have put together. While there are no superstars, the team is incredibly deep and plays well together. Danny Granger is in his prime, David West brings leadership, Roy Hibbert is playing like an All-Star, Darren Collison continues to improve, Tyler Hansbrough brings manic energy, George Hill (when healthy) has given the team a scorer off the bench, and Paul George may very well be the best player on this team in another year, if not one of the best players in the league -- he has that much potential.

The team continues to be prudent with its money, too, and still has significant cap room to add other pieces. Adding one more scorer could put the Pacers in serious contention for the Eastern Conference crown.

But it's the Pacers' jump in management score that moved them up to No. 5. Owner Herb Simon remains committed to putting a winning team on the floor, which means the front office has the green light to spend if it's on the right guy. And while no one had heard of Frank Vogel before last season, he's quickly looking like one of the best up-and-coming coaches in the NBA. He doesn't get enough credit for his contribution to the unselfish culture on the Pacers.

Bird, however, deserves the lion's share of the credit. Is this the year the three-time NBA MVP and former coach of the year completes the triple crown and takes home executive of the year honors? It's hard to think of anyone else who deserves it more.

(Previous rank: 7)


Can't beat that assessment, or press.

Finally, we're over the hump. This is the kind of stuff that puts butts in seats.

Brohan Cruyff
02-08-2012, 03:53 PM
This is awesome. Glad to see that people are starting to notice that from top to bottom, this is a really well-built team and franchise.

Richard_Skull
02-08-2012, 04:39 PM
If you don't mind me asking, what were the 4 teams ahead of us?

daschysta
02-08-2012, 04:41 PM
If you don't mind me asking, what were the 4 teams ahead of us?

CHI, MIA, OKC, LAC. Not bad company, can't disagree with any of the ones above us either.

Pacergeek
02-08-2012, 05:17 PM
CHI, MIA, OKC, LAC. Not bad company, can't disagree with any of the ones above us either.

Well I can. Griffen is all hype. Take away his highlight-reel dunks, and his comical media push, he becomes just an above average player. Mark my words, OKC will never win a title with Russell Wesrbrook. He can't stand it that Durant is the alpha dog, and will never embrace the Robin role.

Kstat
02-08-2012, 05:19 PM
Good to see Hollinger is a credible genius again, until the next time he says something unflattering about an Indiana pacer, at which time he will return to blithering idiot status.

Kstat
02-08-2012, 05:20 PM
Mark my words, OKC will never win a title with Russell Wesrbrook. He can't stand it that Durant is the alpha dog, and will never embrace the Robin role.

...and yet, he just re-signed to play Robin in OKC for the next five years....

BTW, take away the highlight dunks, and Blake Griffin is still the only player in the NBA averaging 20 points, 10 rebounds and 3 assists per game. He's without a doubt the best offensive big man in the game right now, despite his shoddy defense and poor FT shooting.

:haters:

daschysta
02-08-2012, 05:20 PM
Good to see Hollinger is a credible genius again, until the next time he says something unflattering about an Indiana pacer, at which time he will return to blithering idiot status.

Whose praising Hollinger. I agree with the result independent of who proclaimed it.

daschysta
02-08-2012, 05:21 PM
Well I can. Griffen is all hype. Take away his highlight-reel dunks, and his comical media push, he becomes just an above average player. Mark my words, OKC will never win a title with Russell Wesrbrook. He can't stand it that Durant is the alpha dog, and will never embrace the Robin role.

Chris Paul.... Also Westbrook is embracing his "Robin" role. He just resigned, knowing that Durant is the centerpiece.

vnzla81
02-08-2012, 05:25 PM
I think is nice to think about the future but as Charles Barkley says "the future might be bright but we still live in the present"

xIndyFan
02-08-2012, 05:25 PM
Well I can. Griffen is all hype. Take away his highlight-reel dunks, and his comical media push, he becomes just an above average player. Mark my words, OKC will never win a title with Russell Wesrbrook. He can't stand it that Durant is the alpha dog, and will never embrace the Robin role.

ee interesting to see how griffin responds to the mosgov foul. and the NBA bigs 'if you're gonna jump over me, i'll just knock you on your :censored:' strategy. he is going to need to learn to jump under control or how to fall safely. bottom line, he won't be allowed to jump all over guys forever.

i remember derrick rose having some issues with dwight howard knocking him down on his drives to the basket. he had to make some changes to how he jumped to compensate.

Haywoode Workman
02-08-2012, 05:29 PM
anyone mind posting the whole thing?

beast23
02-08-2012, 05:31 PM
Good to see Hollinger is a credible genius again, until the next time he says something unflattering about an Indiana pacer, at which time he will return to blithering idiot status.
Well, I'll be. You've been around here for what, 10-12 years now? You have definitely come around to figuring us all out. We should make you an honorary Pacer fan so you can begin developing some of our flaws... er character "assets". :)

Pacergeek
02-08-2012, 05:34 PM
Chris Paul.... Also Westbrook is embracing his "Robin" role. He just resigned

I wasn't aware that Russell quit

Will Galen
02-08-2012, 05:52 PM
Good to see Hollinger is a credible genius again, until the next time he says something unflattering about an Indiana pacer, at which time he will return to blithering idiot status.

That's nonsense! If he says something unflattering about the Pacers it's only because he didn't do his homework and is just filling his column. If he says something nice about the Pacers it's obvious he's done his homework, simple as that.

righteouscool
02-08-2012, 06:01 PM
I think is nice to think about the future but as Charles Barkley says "the future might be bright but we still live in the present"

Ah yes, the great philosopher Charles Barkley.

AesopRockOn
02-08-2012, 06:07 PM
...Russell Westbrook. He can't stand it that Durant is the alpha dog, and will never embrace the Robin role.

=

hype...comical media push

FTFY

spazzxb
02-08-2012, 06:18 PM
Chris Paul.... Also Westbrook is embracing his "Robin" role. He just resigned, knowing that Durant is the centerpiece.

They pay him like he's Batman.

crunk-juice
02-08-2012, 06:28 PM
Good to see Hollinger is a credible genius again, until the next time he says something unflattering about an Indiana pacer, at which time he will return to blithering idiot status.

what the hell are you talking about

CableKC
02-08-2012, 06:42 PM
what the hell are you talking about
KStat is saying that whenever Hollinger says something nice about the Pacers...his assessment is great.....when he says something negative about the Pacers...his assessment of the Pacers suck. :shrug:

crunk-juice
02-08-2012, 06:46 PM
KStat is saying that whenever Hollinger says something nice about the Pacers...his assessment is great.....when he says something negative about the Pacers...his assessment of the Pacers suck. :shrug:

i know what he was getting at, but no one had even mentioned Hollinger or his credibility...

plus i think that he doesnt realize that these varying opinions can come from... varying people.

MrHale
02-08-2012, 06:46 PM
...and yet, he just re-signed to play Robin in OKC for the next five years....

BTW, take away the highlight dunks, and Blake Griffin is still the only player in the NBA averaging 20 points, 10 rebounds and 3 assists per game. He's without a doubt the best offensive big man in the game right now, despite his shoddy defense and poor FT shooting.

:haters:

Without a doubt the best offensive big man huh? id def have to disagree, I think aldridge is better on offense and a few others.

mattie
02-08-2012, 07:00 PM
i know what he was getting at, but no one had even mentioned Hollinger or his credibility...

plus i think that he doesnt realize that these varying opinions can come from... varying people.

There has been a lot of criticism of Hollinger on this board in the past. All completely unfounded. Hollinger considers Tyler a black hole, and the rest of the Pacers not one of the best passing teams in the league.

spreedom
02-09-2012, 11:46 AM
...and yet, he just re-signed to play Robin in OKC for the next five years....

BTW, take away the highlight dunks, and Blake Griffin is still the only player in the NBA averaging 20 points, 10 rebounds and 3 assists per game. He's without a doubt the best offensive big man in the game right now, despite his shoddy defense and poor FT shooting.

:haters:



You mean besides Kevin Love?

LA_Confidential
02-09-2012, 12:04 PM
I'm most intrigued by the "green light on spending for the right piece" part. For the first time in a long time the Pacers are in a position to make moves that actually mean something. I'm anxious damn near desperate for the FO to just go out and get us "that guy", especially @ the PG spot.

Don't get me wrong, DC for Murphy had me giddy as ever but that was more about dumping Murph than it was about adding DC. Honestly I would have been satisfied with a straight up salary dump. I'm glad to have gotten DC as he is a tradable asset but I will not convince myself to be content with him Asa our starter, present or future.

Even though this is about future rankings, I feel we have an extremely legitimate chance to compete right now. Whether it be with a Steve Nash rental (with minimal losses) or swinging for the fences and getting Rondo, whom I'd be willing to give up two #1's to get, we have to make a move now to solidify our present.

ballism
02-09-2012, 12:35 PM
BTW, take away the highlight dunks, and Blake Griffin is still the only player in the NBA averaging 20 points, 10 rebounds and 3 assists per game. He's without a doubt the best offensive big man in the game right now, despite his shoddy defense and poor FT shooting.

:haters:

add too many low % long range 2s. he's taking nearly as many as Dirk and his % on those is lower than Dirk's by nearly .200.

I still kind of agree with that statement because I can't think of anyone clearly better offensively right now as the usual guys are off or injured.
But I do hope that changes soon - compared to bigs and their offensive form at this time last year, I wouldn't rank Blake's offense top 5.

spreedom
02-09-2012, 01:50 PM
Also worth noting how LOL worthy Blake is when he tries to put the ball on the floor. I'm not sure I've seen him score off the dribble all year besides a handful of dunks.

Eleazar
02-09-2012, 02:26 PM
Constantly being on ESPN for his highlights has kind of created a Blake bubble. Hopefully it will pop, unlike AI's bubble.

P.S. I am not trying to say Griffin sucks, only that he isn't as good as people like to make him out to be. Right now he is more like Bosh than Shaq, but everyone wants to think he is Shaq.

Kstat
02-09-2012, 02:34 PM
20 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists....there's one guys on the list. One.

He's the best finisher in the NBA, one of the top rebounders, and he's the best passing big man in the game, which NOBODY ever mentions.

Naptown_Seth
02-09-2012, 02:38 PM
Good to see Hollinger is a credible genius again, until the next time he says something unflattering about an Indiana pacer, at which time he will return to blithering idiot status.
It makes me nuts. A guy either writes well, researches well, etc or he doesn't.

JH is also pretty good about watching a lot of ball, but of course whenever he shows some unflattering stats about a Pacer he's labeled as a numbers-only guy who has no clue.

spreedom
02-09-2012, 02:41 PM
Best passing big man in the league is Boris Diaw... he's a punchline these days, and deservedly so, but he is definitely the best passing big in the league.

Griffin is right up there, but Kevin Love is a much better scorer AND rebounder, and Aldridge is every bit as good too IMO. And once Dirk shows that he's all the way back, I think he's a better player as well.

Kstat
02-09-2012, 02:41 PM
It makes me nuts. A guy either writes well, researches well, etc or he doesn't.

JH is also pretty good about watching a lot of ball, but of course whenever he shows some unflattering stats about a Pacer he's labeled as a numbers-only guy who has no clue.

See, I really don't like Hollinger at all, but I'm pretty consistent on the matter. I can't stand the use of PER and hollinger swings it around like Excalibur's sword....I say this knowing full well Hollinger is by far Greg Monroe's biggest advocate for the all-star team, but basketball is not played in a vacuum, and PER does not account for every variable on a basketball court.

I do appreciate Thorpe, who does an outstanding job on individual observations, tries not to write outside the scope of his expertise, and isn't afraid to admit he was wrong in hindsight.

Naptown_Seth
02-09-2012, 02:46 PM
20 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists....there's one guys on the list. One.

He's the best finisher in the NBA, one of the top rebounders, and he's the best passing big man in the game, which NOBODY ever mentions.
And it's one thing to be on for "dunking" and another for being on ESPN because you dunk over traffic from 6 feet out. That's called "shot creation". Those aren't dunks that are available to other players, that's something that only Griffin is bringing to the table.

I'd say a 99% make rate shot that you can get 5 times a game in traffic is pretty darn nice.


Shaq is actually a good comparison because people dismissed his game (for good reason) for being mostly built around size. "If only he wasn't that big and strong he wouldn't be worth a crap"...but he IS that big and strong and it counts. Ditto with Griffin. He DOES make those dunks and those points are just as good as a long Durant 2pt jumper.

Naptown_Seth
02-09-2012, 03:37 PM
See, I really don't like Hollinger at all, but I'm pretty consistent on the matter. I can't stand the use of PER and hollinger swings it around like Excalibur's sword....I say this knowing full well Hollinger is by far Greg Monroe's biggest advocate for the all-star team, but basketball is not played in a vacuum, and PER does not account for every variable on a basketball court.

I do appreciate Thorpe, who does an outstanding job on individual observations, tries not to write outside the scope of his expertise, and isn't afraid to admit he was wrong in hindsight.
I actually agree about JH and the PER, but he does tie it to games watched. He's not just burying his head in numbers, he's trying to translate what he sees to the numbers, and checks the numbers against what he sees.

Most "stats guys" do recognize potential flaws and are constantly using the "smell" test for their results. When a stat says Lou is the top Pacer, you start checking on your formulas. JH is doing that, but in the meantime he's put a lot of work into trying to identify top players using the same stats all of us are using (points, rebounds, assists, etc).

PER (and other aggregations) have issues, but the backbone of all of them is the same stat set we look at in a box score. The issue is data collection itself and the lack of data categories for what currently fall under "intangibles", ie things we haven't figured out how to keep track of yet.

No aggregate is ever going to be right if it's based on the current limited and flawed data (ie, assists or rebounds or blocks or steals are not credited identically all the time).

ballism
02-09-2012, 03:38 PM
See, I really don't like Hollinger at all, but I'm pretty consistent on the matter. I can't stand the use of PER and hollinger swings it around like Excalibur's sword....I say this knowing full well Hollinger is by far Greg Monroe's biggest advocate for the all-star team, but basketball is not played in a vacuum, and PER does not account for every variable on a basketball court.

I do appreciate Thorpe, who does an outstanding job on individual observations, tries not to write outside the scope of his expertise, and isn't afraid to admit he was wrong in hindsight.

That's one area where I think Hollinger is lacking. I think Hollinger is brilliant but he's doing too much. He writes so many stuff and goes out of his scope at times, so there's a ton of factual mistakes.
I still like him, I think his points are often brilliant even if some others are far fetched.
But some of his stuff can't be taken seriously.
Especially when he's talking international topics and he's not strictly adhering to stats, it's often a disaster.
He hasn't quite said that Stanko is small but he comes close.