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vnzla81
02-07-2012, 10:30 PM
:duck:

Saras
02-07-2012, 10:33 PM
Collison 25 points,4 rebs,5 assists on 14 shots. And most important 0 turnovers, and yet again I see people questioning this guy to be a starter even, ridiculous.

Pingu
02-07-2012, 10:35 PM
Collison 25 points,4 rebs,5 assists on 14 shots. And most important 0 turnovers, and yet again I see people questioning this guy to be a starter even, ridiculous.

Funny your screen name should be Saras given you like good point guard play... Shouldn't you change it to Darren? ;)

Mr_Smith
02-07-2012, 10:35 PM
Could have easily collapsed big time, but Danny stepped up big and hit some shots. Can't forget about Darren Collision having a great game.

ensergio
02-07-2012, 10:36 PM
I like Granger's play this season. He is not shooting well, but he is hustling for everything.

EDIT: His defense the last quarter was awesome.

Sookie
02-07-2012, 10:39 PM
Lots of mental mistakes this game, the entire game, and still pulled out a win. Great game from DC, and nice to see Granger and George hit big shots.

BlueNGold
02-07-2012, 10:40 PM
Darren won this game for the Pacers. No, he's no Jason Kidd, Steve Nash or even Mark Jackson type of PG who makes other players around him better...but dude can score and handle the ball well. He's a lot better option than we've had at the PG position since Jamaal Tinsley.

Saras
02-07-2012, 10:41 PM
Funny your screen name should be Saras given you like good point guard play... Shouldn't you change it to Darren? ;)

The way Indiana plays is not always pretty, its a tough team that often grinds their way to success, and i think thats how you get consistency, because the shot is not always there, but hustle you can bring every night. Running team like this is tough, thats why i dont go hard on guys like Collison or Jennings, because they run teams that are different from the ones that run and shoot and doesnt care about defense too much.

Team is 17-7, DC outplayed Devin Harris, Indiana won a game and the biggest news is that DC missed PG on a fast break or couldnt kick it to Hibbert at some point? Seriously?

vnzla81
02-07-2012, 10:42 PM
I like Granger's play this season. He is not shooting well, but he is hustling for everything.

EDIT: His defense the last quarter was awesome.

Did you watch the first 3 quarters? Other than doing a good job in the 4th he pretty much sucked all game.

Johanvil
02-07-2012, 10:42 PM
8 To's for the Pacers.That's nice.
It would be/look really bad if we lost that game mainly because you just can't surrender such a big lead in the 3rd quarter and even trail in the 4th.Danny was great in the 4th,Colllison had a great 1st half and Hibber was also very good.Anyway,good win and hoping for a win tomorrow against the Hawks.

gummy
02-07-2012, 10:42 PM
Got to love a team that just finds ways to win.

I think losing focus with big leads is a bit of a youth thing and I think they will do it less as the season wears on. Good teams can do that at times, then crank up the defense and still win. That's what we did tonight and it's soooo good to be that team when so often in recent years we've been on the other side of that equation.

Pacer Fan
02-07-2012, 10:42 PM
Darren won this game for the Pacers. No, he's no Jason Kidd, Steve Nash or even Mark Jackson type of PG who makes other players around him better...but dude can score and handle the ball well. He's a lot better option than we've had at the PG position since Mark Jackson.

Fixed!

ensergio
02-07-2012, 10:45 PM
Did you watch the first 3 quarters? Other than doing a good job in the 4th he pretty much sucked all game.

I did watch all the game. Bad start but overall was a good game for him.

Without him we lose.

doctor-h
02-07-2012, 10:45 PM
I like Granger's play this season. He is not shooting well, but he is hustling for everything.

EDIT: His defense the last quarter was awesome.

Yea but his defense the first 3 quarters was awful. He only played hard 1 quarter and that is exactly why people get on him some of the time.

doctor-h
02-07-2012, 10:48 PM
Did you watch the first 3 quarters? Other than doing a good job in the 4th he pretty much sucked all game.

I think sometimes people are blind. He did suck the first 3 quarters but I will bet someone will think he should be defensive player of the year because he made some defensive plays in the fourth.

TheDavisBrothers
02-07-2012, 10:48 PM
A lot of teams go on runs like the Jazz, we should just be happy that this team, unlike previous teams, was able to regain composure and gut out the win

TheDavisBrothers
02-07-2012, 10:53 PM
Yeah, good thing we got that Mozart back! :p

Ya got to me before I fixed it lol

BlueNGold
02-07-2012, 10:54 PM
Funny we expect a blow-out over a western conference team with a .565 winning percentage.

How times have change...

vnzla81
02-07-2012, 10:54 PM
A lot of teams go on runs like the Jazz, we should just be happy that this team, unlike previous teams, was able to regain composure and gut out the win

No doubt.

DGPR
02-07-2012, 10:54 PM
The 4th quarter wasn't pretty by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm glad we toughed it out. Those tough pills must be extended release?

Anthem
02-07-2012, 10:55 PM
Didn't get to watch the game, due to NBATV stupidity.

Glad to see the W, though.

Malakai432
02-07-2012, 10:57 PM
Collison 25 points,4 rebs,5 assists on 14 shots. And most important 0 turnovers, and yet again I see people questioning this guy to be a starter even, ridiculous.

Definitely have to agree with you there. The guy has been playing pretty solid lately. He just needs to continue improving and getting better, if he can do that, Collison is going to be a nice guard for years to come.

vnzla81
02-07-2012, 10:58 PM
By the way I can't wait for Hill to come back and let AJ get back to the bench and never see him again.

Sookie
02-07-2012, 11:03 PM
By the way I can't wait for Hill to come back and let AJ get back to the bench and never see him again.

I can't wait for AJ to be on a different team too..

dohman
02-07-2012, 11:04 PM
I will say it was nice seeing Lance look for his shot again. He has been in the pass pass pass mode lately. He must have gotten a glimpse of a green light.

Asher99
02-07-2012, 11:06 PM
Danny saving all his makes for the 4th quarter was big!

Man does the bench goes stagnant quick when Tyler gets left out of the offense or what. Jazz got it down to a 6 point game then Tyler makes a bucket, we draw a charge to get the ball back then Hansbrough gets defected in a double team gets it back then hits Jones for a 3 point play to push it back up to 11 then this happened....

Dahntay Jones misses a jump shot from 18 feet out.
Dahntay Jones misses a jump shot from 5 feet out.
Lance Stephenson misses free throw 1 of 2.
Lance Stephenson misses free throw 2 of 2.
Dahntay Jones misses a 3-point jump shot from 53 feet out.
C.J. Miles steals the ball from A.J. Price.
A.J. Price misses a jump shot from 16 feet out.
A.J. Price with a traveling turnover: Traveling
Louis Amundson misses a jump shot from 6 feet out.
C.J. Miles blocks a Dahntay Jones layup shot from 3 feet out.
Paul George misses a 3-point jump shot from 26 feet out.

Team goes a -10 over this 4:41 of play and we got 1 shot off by someone who you like taking it and it was a long 3 ball. We honestly need a guy who can pass on the bench bad if we're going to do anything come playoffs time.

You know we have passing issues when in the 4 games this month Tyler is 2nd on the bench in dimes picking up a quarter of the total behind Price who got 4 in one game and 7 total. D Jones has 3 in 59 min of play this month but has got off 16 shots making 6 but only picking up 4 boards with 4 TO. Lance has 2 this month and Lou has yet to pick one up

Justin Tyme
02-07-2012, 11:10 PM
By the way I can't wait for Hill to come back and let AJ get back to the bench and never see him again.

All he's doing is playing himself out of the NBA. Seriously, he makes me want Travis Diener back!! Where is Diener therse days?

JBones19
02-07-2012, 11:11 PM
Speaking of taking tough pills, Danny said in his post game interview that he took the wrong dosage of sleeping pills last night and it made him very lethargic and he was trying to flush out his system all day. Said he didn't feelike himself until he sweated it all out in the 4th.

gummy
02-07-2012, 11:13 PM
Speaking of taking tough pills, Danny said in his post game interview that he took the wrong dosage of sleeping pills last night and it made him very lethargic and he was trying to flush out his system all day. Said he didn't feelike himself until he sweated it all out in the 4th.

Interesting.

These guys run on so much adrenaline, I've often wondered how many of them have sleep problems.

PacersHomer
02-07-2012, 11:13 PM
I can't wait for AJ to be on a different team too..

D-League bound.

Justin Tyme
02-07-2012, 11:14 PM
Pacers blow a 21 pt lead.

Pacers get out reb 43-37.

Bench is terrible! Where's all this bench depth Bird feels he's got?

Isaac
02-07-2012, 11:14 PM
Speaking of taking tough pills, Danny said in his post game interview that he took the wrong dosage of sleeping pills last night and it made him very lethargic and he was trying to flush out his system all day. Said he didn't feelike himself until he sweated it all out in the 4th.

How do you take the wrong dosage of sleeping pills? "Do I have two or six pills in my hand? Eh, it's probably two."

dohman
02-07-2012, 11:17 PM
Pacers blow a 21 pt lead.

Pacers get out reb 43-37.

Bench is terrible! Where's all this bench depth Bird feels he's got?

You don't really blow a lead unless you lose.

I wouldn't blame it on the bench because they are partially the reason we got the lead. I would look at our two so called stars. Danny has what 2 points mid way through the third quarter and west has 8 points. I am sorry but the bench did its job. The stars need to start earning their pay.

Ramitt
02-07-2012, 11:18 PM
How do you take the wrong dosage of sleeping pills? "Do I have two or six pills in my hand? Eh, it's probably two."

I had the same thought.

Ramitt
02-07-2012, 11:19 PM
Did you watch the first 3 quarters? Other than doing a good job in the 4th he pretty much sucked all game.

<Glass half full> He was great when it mattered the most.

spazzxb
02-07-2012, 11:23 PM
Collison 25 points,4 rebs,5 assists on 14 shots. And most important 0 turnovers, and yet again I see people questioning this guy to be a starter even, ridiculous.

So you use the first post of this thread as bait to continue the arguing from the game thread here. :whoknows:

granger4mvp
02-07-2012, 11:24 PM
You don't really blow a lead unless you lose.

I wouldn't blame it on the bench because they are partially the reason we got the lead. I would look at our two so called stars. Danny has what 2 points mid way through the third quarter and west has 8 points. I am sorry but the bench did its job. The stars need to start earning their pay.

And again we WIN regardless damn

gummy
02-07-2012, 11:27 PM
How do you take the wrong dosage of sleeping pills? "Do I have two or six pills in my hand? Eh, it's probably two."

I've done it once or twice. Here's how, it's pretty simple.

You are tired. Really tired. But not sleepy, which is why you're taking the meds. You're in that overtired, auto-pilot mode everyone slips into occasionally. You shake the pill out, glance down at your hand, pop it into your mouth, and swallow it all in one motion. Then your tired brain catches up and you process the picture from a few seconds ago - three pills instead of two, ****!

But it's too late, unless you want to try and throw it up...and if I was a pro athlete I might. Then again, maybe you figure the game is late the next day and it'll be fine...and you don't know that you're wrong until it's too late.

Asher99
02-07-2012, 11:37 PM
Bench is terrible! Where's all this bench depth Bird feels he's got?

Two guys are hurt and the healthy one got froze out when the bench went bad for the first 10 of a 12-0 run.

NapTonius Monk
02-07-2012, 11:41 PM
Is it going to take a deep playoff run to get attendance back up?

pwee31
02-07-2012, 11:41 PM
I've done it once or twice. Here's how, it's pretty simple.

You are tired. Really tired. But not sleepy, which is why you're taking the meds. You're in that overtired, auto-pilot mode everyone slips into occasionally. You shake the pill out, glance down at your hand, pop it into your mouth, and swallow it all in one motion. Then your tired brain catches up and you process the picture from a few seconds ago - three pills instead of two, ****!

But it's too late, unless you want to try and throw it up...and if I was a pro athlete I might. Then again, maybe you figure the game is late the next day and it'll be fine...and you don't know that you're wrong until it's too late.

Not to mention it may not have been last night. A lot of players take naps before the game as well.

It would be that drowsy feeling that you get when you take NyQuil or Benadryl but don't get enough sleep and just wake up cloudy

Doddage
02-07-2012, 11:45 PM
Is it going to take a deep playoff run to get attendance back up?
Probably a star and a championship, at minimum.

Scot Pollard
02-07-2012, 11:49 PM
Is it going to take a deep playoff run to get attendance back up?

It's expected to rise soon.

I didn't think too highly of tonight. People are still getting over the SB, streets are opening up again, decorations are coming down.

The 76ers attendance shot up BIG and it's expected the same for the Pacers soon.

Eleazar
02-07-2012, 11:50 PM
Danny saving all his makes for the 4th quarter was big!

Man does the bench goes stagnant quick when Tyler gets left out of the offense or what. Jazz got it down to a 6 point game then Tyler makes a bucket, we draw a charge to get the ball back then Hansbrough gets defected in a double team gets it back then hits Jones for a 3 point play to push it back up to 11 then this happened....

Dahntay Jones misses a jump shot from 18 feet out.
Dahntay Jones misses a jump shot from 5 feet out.
Lance Stephenson misses free throw 1 of 2.
Lance Stephenson misses free throw 2 of 2.
Dahntay Jones misses a 3-point jump shot from 53 feet out.
C.J. Miles steals the ball from A.J. Price.
A.J. Price misses a jump shot from 16 feet out.
A.J. Price with a traveling turnover: Traveling
Louis Amundson misses a jump shot from 6 feet out.
C.J. Miles blocks a Dahntay Jones layup shot from 3 feet out.
Paul George misses a 3-point jump shot from 26 feet out.

Team goes a -10 over this 4:41 of play and we got 1 shot off by someone who you like taking it and it was a long 3 ball. We honestly need a guy who can pass on the bench bad if we're going to do anything come playoffs time.

You know we have passing issues when in the 4 games this month Tyler is 2nd on the bench in dimes picking up a quarter of the total behind Price who got 4 in one game and 7 total. D Jones has 3 in 59 min of play this month but has got off 16 shots making 6 but only picking up 4 boards with 4 TO. Lance has 2 this month and Lou has yet to pick one up

It isn't the passing that is the problem, it is the shooting. No one is consistently making anything, and no matter how good the passing is if the guy doesn't make the shot it isn't an assist. There are two equally important factors in what makes an assist, a good pass is only 50% of it.

Eleazar
02-07-2012, 11:51 PM
I need to add:

We STILL haven't lost 2 games in a row!!!!

Scot Pollard
02-07-2012, 11:52 PM
Probably a star and a championship, at minimum.

:hmm:

If we're talking about selling out every game then that'd be it.

All is on the right track and attendance will rise soon.

Some more sellouts or near sellouts over the weekends and larger crowds during the week.

Doddage
02-07-2012, 11:58 PM
:hmm:

If we're talking about selling out every game then that'd be it.

All is on the right track and attendance will rise soon.

Some more sellouts or near sellouts over the weekends and larger crowds during the week.
Should have added the green to my post. :laugh:

Ace E.Anderson
02-07-2012, 11:58 PM
In spite of what everyone is saying, I didn't think DG played poorly. He wasn't forcing shots and wasn't hitting his open ones. In the 4th he was MONEY.

The Jazz have always been the type of team that would give us trouble (physical athletic 4's that can put pressure on west and Tyler) West is starting to annoy me a bit. He just isn't getting it going on offense, and any team with a good PF has been killing us (Mavs, Magic, Jazz, etc) he really needs to start asserting himself more.

All in all though, can't complain about a W against one of the 2nd tier western conference teams isn't bad.

xIndyFan
02-08-2012, 12:00 AM
fwiw, lance is rapidly becoming my favorite player. he reminds me of tyler last year or baby al when he first became a pacer. trying so hard to do the right thing, but playing without a clue so much of the time. and those shining moments where the game slows down and he can do what he does. i really hope he gets it together. i felt so sorry for him when he came out after getting too excited and melting down.

man, i miss earl watson.

Nuntius
02-08-2012, 12:07 AM
8 To's for the Pacers.That's nice.


5 of them in the 4th quarter. 4 of them to start said quarter, as well :p

Asher99
02-08-2012, 12:10 AM
It isn't the passing that is the problem, it is the shooting. No one is consistently making anything, and no matter how good the passing is if the guy doesn't make the shot it isn't an assist. There are two equally important factors in what makes an assist, a good pass is only 50% of it.

If you can pass you can rack up assists even with low shooting percentages. Nash is leading the league and his supporting cast is shooting around 43% minus his high percentage this year. Its a real sad state for second unit when Tyler is the only one consistently hitting guys for easy looks this month and nobody will ever confuse him with a passer.

xIndyFan
02-08-2012, 12:11 AM
5 of them in the 4th quarter. 4 of them to start said quarter, as well :p

that was brutal.

gotta love a young team. :laugh: the jazz did something new, a nice little trap, and pacer kids had no clue what to do, missed a couple of shots and then started to panic. i for one will be glad when they start learning how to deal with adversity.

HC
02-08-2012, 12:15 AM
Is it going to take a deep playoff run to get attendance back up?

Yeah should probably just shut the balcony down at this point, it's pretty embarrasing.

D-BONE
02-08-2012, 12:18 AM
It isn't the passing that is the problem, it is the shooting. No one is consistently making anything, and no matter how good the passing is if the guy doesn't make the shot it isn't an assist. There are two equally important factors in what makes an assist, a good pass is only 50% of it.

I'll disagree with both premises. It's the way we run offense. During the slow start and when the 21 point lead evaporated, most of our offensive possession are strictly some form of one man trying to score the ball.

Yes we had some scattered good looks in there we missed, but overall there was a lot of iso and very little ball and player movement. For the most part tonight, when we forced the defense to move with multiple passes and player movement, we were successful.

So, not hitting shots and having someone on the second unit who individually is a strong passer to me are much less important than keeping the ball and players moving crisply. I would add I think FG let the starters play to long into the 3rd quarter and could have used a timeout or two more effectively to try and break some momentum of Jazz runs and regroup.

D-BONE
02-08-2012, 12:20 AM
Yeah should probably just shut the balcony down at this point, it's pretty embarrasing.

Please, not unless you're upgrading me for the rest of the season. I'd like to see the floor.

D-BONE
02-08-2012, 12:22 AM
I think any chance for consistent, improved attendance will only come when it's obvious we secure a high enough seed for home court or possibly until once we win a series.

Maybe it will happen sooner, but the weeknight crowds seem pretty weak. Post-Super Bowl hangover?

Eleazar
02-08-2012, 12:24 AM
I think any chance for consistent, improved attendance will only come when it's obvious we secure a high enough seed for home court or possibly until once we win a series.

Maybe it will happen sooner, but the weeknight crowds seem pretty weak. Post-Super Bowl hangover?

For now I'll go with the post-SB hangover until proven otherwise.

sobleski
02-08-2012, 12:25 AM
Yeah should probably just shut the balcony down at this point, it's pretty embarrasing.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance , we are still pretty low on the list but just last year our attendence was almost 1,000 people lower. If we continue this steady winning by next year I would expect to see us in the middle of the pack if not higher. Also we haven't played the Lakers, Heat, or Bulls at home yet like many other teams have had to spike up attendence. The teams we have played at home are Detroit, Cleveland, Charolette, Atlanta, Boston, Orlando, New Jersey, Orlando. With the exception of Orlando and Boston none of those teams are pulling any fans. The good news is all 14,500 people we are averaging are there to see the Pacers and the Pacers alone.

HC
02-08-2012, 12:29 AM
Please, not unless you're upgrading me for the rest of the season. I'd like to see the floor.

lol..sry..of course fill up the club level seats

HC
02-08-2012, 12:31 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance , we are still pretty low on the list but just last year our attendence was almost 1,000 people lower. If we continue this steady winning by next year I would expect to see us in the middle of the pack if not higher. Also we haven't played the Lakers, Heat, or Bulls at home yet like many other teams have had to spike up attendence. The teams we have played at home are Detroit, Cleveland, Charolette, Atlanta, Boston, Orlando, New Jersey, Orlando. With the exception of Orlando and Boston none of those teams are pulling any fans. The good news is all 14,500 people we are averaging are there to see the Pacers and the Pacers alone.

I can live with it untill Chicago comes to town and the other 3600 or so seat are filled with Bulls fans.

spazzxb
02-08-2012, 12:32 AM
Definitely have to agree with you there. The guy has been playing pretty solid lately. He just needs to continue improving and getting better, if he can do that, Collison is going to be a nice guard for years to come.

I just hope he doesn't get offended if we move him to backup when we play against larger elite point guards. I hate having DC on the floor When George has to guard his man. IF DC can't guard the point guard he shouldn't be on the floor. Luckily this is only an issue against a couple of teams.

Pacersalltheway10
02-08-2012, 12:32 AM
Gordon Hayward killed the Pacers during the Jazz run. He made shots, great passes, and good defense.

rock747
02-08-2012, 12:34 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance , we are still pretty low on the list but just last year our attendence was almost 1,000 people lower. If we continue this steady winning by next year I would expect to see us in the middle of the pack if not higher. Also we haven't played the Lakers, Heat, or Bulls at home yet like many other teams have had to spike up attendence. The teams we have played at home are Detroit, Cleveland, Charolette, Atlanta, Boston, Orlando, New Jersey, Orlando. With the exception of Orlando and Boston none of those teams are pulling any fans. The good news is all 14,500 people we are averaging are there to see the Pacers and the Pacers alone.

Pacers have a better attendance on the road.... ha

Nuntius
02-08-2012, 12:38 AM
I was reading a Jazz forum some minutes ago and even they felt that this team deserved a better attendance.

Also, great win tonight. Glad that the guys bounced back :D

croz24
02-08-2012, 12:44 AM
If you can pass you can rack up assists even with low shooting percentages. Nash is leading the league and his supporting cast is shooting around 43% minus his high percentage this year. Its a real sad state for second unit when Tyler is the only one consistently hitting guys for easy looks this month and nobody will ever confuse him with a passer.

But the Suns also don't run an inside out game like we do. When the majority of your shots are coming from the perimeter, yes, you are likely to rack up plenty of assists. Just look at Collison's assist numbers with the Hornets. Point guards also take a little longer to develop than most realize and also have a longer shelf life than any other position. Nash wasn't even a solid player until his 5th season in the league.

With the Pacers current style, Collison needs to be a leader and get the players in the right position to run the offense which he's done a good job doing. But since he's also one of our best shooters, I just wish he could be a little more aggressive offensively like he was tonight. Until we surround Collison with more shooters, he needs to continue being a vocal presence on the court and directing guys how to best feed the big men.

Hicks
02-08-2012, 12:50 AM
I can't wait for AJ to be on a different team too..

At what point is it AJ's fault? I mean seriously. No one's forcing him to take bad shots or turn the ball over.

Hicks
02-08-2012, 12:52 AM
Pacers blow a 21 pt lead.

Pacers get out reb 43-37.

Bench is terrible! Where's all this bench depth Bird feels he's got?

What an attitude.

Asher99
02-08-2012, 12:52 AM
Croz you are defending DC when this wasn't even about him, its about the poor passing on our second unit which shoots tons of jumpers many by people who need to be passing.

Anthem
02-08-2012, 01:02 AM
Croz you are defending DC when this wasn't even about him, its about the poor passing on our second unit which shoots tons of jumpers many by people who need to be passing.
True.

At least Tyler's learned to pass.

xIndyFan
02-08-2012, 01:08 AM
True.

At least Tyler's learned to pass.

yeah, it was nice. not pretty or smooth, but nice. he is trying.

tyler is turning into a bit of a whiner though. not the only one on the team. if the pacers are not careful, they will get a reputation as chronic complainers.

croz24
02-08-2012, 01:09 AM
Croz you are defending DC when this wasn't even about him, its about the poor passing on our second unit which shoots tons of jumpers many by people who need to be passing.

In the game thread it was about Collison when you used that exact stat with Nash vs Collison and the team's shooting %s. So when you use that stat once again, in my opinion you made it about Collison and a continuation of that discussion. Plus, some of my post was a general post game comment regarding Darren.

Asher99
02-08-2012, 01:12 AM
True.

At least Tyler's learned to pass.

He had several tonight hitting Roy and Lance up for some FT and had a couple more for bricks or setting up an extra pass to open man.

pizza guy
02-08-2012, 01:13 AM
But the Suns also don't run an inside out game like we do. When the majority of your shots are coming from the perimeter, yes, you are likely to rack up plenty of assists. Just look at Collison's assist numbers with the Hornets. Point guards also take a little longer to develop than most realize and also have a longer shelf life than any other position. Nash wasn't even a solid player until his 5th season in the league.

With the Pacers current style, Collison needs to be a leader and get the players in the right position to run the offense which he's done a good job doing. But since he's also one of our best shooters, I just wish he could be a little more aggressive offensively like he was tonight. Until we surround Collison with more shooters, he needs to continue being a vocal presence on the court and directing guys how to best feed the big men.


Croz you are defending DC when this wasn't even about him, its about the poor passing on our second unit which shoots tons of jumpers many by people who need to be passing.

LOL, I 'thanked' the post here by croz because I really agree with it, then I realized, like Asher pointed out, that the discussion was really regarding the bench's lack of ball movement.

I was able to watch most of the game, but was also bowling poorly at the same time the big lead disappeared. I do recall a nice pass from Hans to a cutting DJones for an And 1 play. I like that the guys on the bench are aggressive, but it's painfully obvious that to be successful, they HAVE to move the ball well. They are bench players for a reason - namely, they aren't dominating in any way. So someone needs to tell them to stop trying to play one-on-one and work together. There is enough talent there to be one unstoppable force. But they've got to work together for it.

As far as the starters go tonight: Danny came up big in the 4th, Hibbert was solid with 17/10 and good defense as always. And Collison :-o I'm a BIG fan of Collison, as I've mentioned a number of times, and I'm convinced that with more time and good coaching, he's going to be very good. He has the confidence of this team and I think he plays with an understanding of his role and how the offense should run, and he plays within that. Also, very nice to see Paul George continue to contribute more and hit some big shots (like the 3 from straight out).

On the down side...David West, where were you tonight?

Overall, despite pissing away a huge lead with a little bit of sloppy play and a cold streak, it's another good win and the train keeps rollin'!

xIndyFan
02-08-2012, 01:14 AM
also, FWIW the officiating of this game was horrible. and the officiating crew just didn't seem to care what anyone thought. very strange. most of the time, officials will listen and explain what they saw/called. these guys just :shrug: and walked away.

Asher99
02-08-2012, 01:17 AM
In the game thread it was about Collison when you used that exact stat with Nash vs Collison and the team's shooting %s. So when you use that stat once again, in my opinion you made it about Collison. Plus, some of my post was a general post game comment regarding Darren.

That was the game thread where you said Nash wouldn't get assists here because we shoot bad but heading into today they shot .2% better when you take DC and Nash shots off the board.

croz24
02-08-2012, 01:21 AM
That was the game thread where you said Nash wouldn't get assists here because we shoot bad but heading into today they shot .2% better when you take DC and Nash shots off the board.

Yes and you used the exact same stat here so I decided to continue that discussion. And as my post stated, low fg% was just one of the reasons Collison doesn't rack up the same amount of assists. Pretty big difference between a perimeter oriented team with a ball controlling pg, and a half court inside out team in terms of ability to generate assists.

vnzla81
02-08-2012, 01:30 AM
Yes and you used the exact same stat here so I decided to continue that discussion. And as my post stated, low fg% was just one of the reasons Collison doesn't rack up the same amount of assists. Pretty big difference between a perimeter oriented team with a ball controlling pg, and a half court inside out team in terms of ability to generate assists.

Low shooting percentage is not an excuse for a point guard not to put the ball in the right place and at the right time for the other players to score, I've seen this happening with our point guards, I also read your other post about point guards needing time to develop and Jeremy Lin, Rubio and a bunch of others players disagree with that.

Again not hating on DC, I'm going to keep repeating that he could be so perfect off the bench with a green light, he could be our Mo Williams or our Jason Terry, he could average 15ppg easy, great game by him today by the way ;)

Asher99
02-08-2012, 01:32 AM
I like DC but the reason he doesn't get assists is because he's not a great passer. He's isn't going to go to the Suns and overnight spike to around 10 a game and if Nash came here with a group of Danny, West, Roy and PG surrounding him he isn't going to see 4 dimes a game vanish from his line.

Day-V
02-08-2012, 01:41 AM
DC's awesome.

crunk-juice
02-08-2012, 01:49 AM
not complaining about winning. but to argue that its a great win because the Jazz are 13-10 or whatever is not true. they were 2-6 on the road. home/road records are what really matter in the NBA.

croz24
02-08-2012, 01:54 AM
Low shooting percentage is not an excuse for a point guard not to put the ball in the right place and at the right time for the other players to score, I've seen this happening with our point guards, I also read your other post about point guards needing time to develop and Jeremy Lin, Rubio and a bunch of others players disagree with that.

Again not hating on DC, I'm going to keep repeating that he could be so perfect off the bench with a green light, he could be our Mo Williams or our Jason Terry, he could average 15ppg easy, great game by him today by the way ;)

Rubio has been playing professional ball since he was 14, is no doubt a GREAT passer, but his complete offensive game is nowhere close to being there. Lin has had what 2 good games in his career? And I could just as easily say compare what Collison has done to this point in his career to Nash, Billups, Rondo, Parker in their 1st three years...

Once again, low %s from a supporting cast is not the ONLY reason Collison doesn't get more assists than he does. Do you fail to understand the concept of an inside-out, half court game? When your guards are constantly feeding the post, it is not uncommon for even great pgs to see dips in their assist numbers. Collison also isn't the ball dominant pg a guy like Nash has been.

ilive4sports
02-08-2012, 02:00 AM
Low shooting percentage is not an excuse for a point guard not to put the ball in the right place and at the right time for the other players to score, I've seen this happening with our point guards, I also read your other post about point guards needing time to develop and Jeremy Lin, Rubio and a bunch of others players disagree with that.

Again not hating on DC, I'm going to keep repeating that he could be so perfect off the bench with a green light, he could be our Mo Williams or our Jason Terry, he could average 15ppg easy, great game by him today by the way ;)

dont you remember last week when DC completely outplayed Rubio?

immortality
02-08-2012, 02:01 AM
Low shooting percentage is not an excuse for a point guard not to put the ball in the right place and at the right time for the other players to score, I've seen this happening with our point guards, I also read your other post about point guards needing time to develop and Jeremy Lin, Rubio and a bunch of others players disagree with that.

Again not hating on DC, I'm going to keep repeating that he could be so perfect off the bench with a green light, he could be our Mo Williams or our Jason Terry, he could average 15ppg easy, great game by him today by the way ;)


I don't get where you think Darren can't pass, he had a large number of games with 15+ assists when he was playing with NO Hornets. He just needs to right offense, currently our pick/roll and pick/pop offense is still very weak. For some reason I see David West and Hansborough hesitate on their shot, giving enough time for a defender to get a hand in the face.

vnzla81
02-08-2012, 02:09 AM
Rubio has been playing professional ball since he was 14, is no doubt a GREAT passer, but his complete offensive game is nowhere close to being there. Lin has had what 2 good games in his career? And I could just as easily say compare what Collison has done to this point in his career to Nash, Billups, Rondo, Parker in their 1st three years...

Once again, low %s from a supporting cast is not the ONLY reason Collison doesn't get more assists than he does. Do you fail to understand the concept of an inside-out, half court game? When your guards are constantly feeding the post, it is not uncommon for even great pgs to see dips in their assist numbers. Collison also isn't the ball dominant pg a guy like Nash has been.

Wow comparing him to Nash, Rondo, Parker in their 1st three years? :zip:

Heisenberg
02-08-2012, 02:13 AM
I don't get where you think Darren can't pass, he had a large number of games with 15+ assists when he was playing with NO Hornets. He just needs to right offense, currently our pick/roll and pick/pop offense is still very weak. For some reason I see David West and Hansborough hesitate on their shot, giving enough time for a defender to get a hand in the face.
I agree that assists are a 2 way street and often times DC does his job but the shot's just missed, but it's been beaten to death around the internet that the NO scorekeepers inflated numbers. He put up a full 1.5 more assists in NO than he did on the road.

vnzla81
02-08-2012, 02:13 AM
I don't get where you think Darren can't pass, he had a large number of games with 15+ assists when he was playing with NO Hornets. He just needs to right offense, currently our pick/roll and pick/pop offense is still very weak. For some reason I see David West and Hansborough hesitate on their shot, giving enough time for a defender to get a hand in the face.

Where do I get that DC can't pass? well I get to watch the games and I can see it, he is just not that good at passing the ball, I don't understand why people are so sensitive about this :confused: good player, good scorer and a really poor passer.

croz24
02-08-2012, 02:24 AM
Wow comparing him to Nash, Rondo, Parker in their 1st three year? :zip:

My god sometimes I question if you even watch basketball... Nash wasn't exactly the star he is now during those years. Same came be said for Rondo and Billups. Also, if you don't think style of offense has anything to do with assist numbers, then explain Collison's 9.1apg average in 37 starts for NOH.

Sookie
02-08-2012, 02:26 AM
At what point is it AJ's fault? I mean seriously. No one's forcing him to take bad shots or turn the ball over.

What bad shot did he take tonight? I personally don't think shooting when the shot clock is winding down is a bad shot, but if others disagree, so be it.

He's going to make mistakes. It happens. Are turnovers truly a problem for Price? I don't think so. Yea, he turned it over twice in a row tonight, but it's typically not a problem.

It's not that I don't think he's playing poorly, it's that I think people go way overboard with the criticism, whereas other players are seemingly above it.

Tyler Hansbrough played straight awful for weeks, and it was rarely talked about. David West was TERRIBLE tonight, never mentioned. Lance Stephenson can play terrible for game after game, and people will pick out the one good play he had and suggest he was awesome.

Paul George has a habit of getting himself in foul trouble early in games, when has that been noted...and only Seth has pointed out his apparent occasional ADD. George Hill really struggled from the field in the beginning of the season, there was a whole lot of patience with that. Why no patience with AJ?

DC and Danny seem to be the only other players that get this wrath. At least they're starters, and playing major minutes.

So, you know what, it is his fault when he turns the ball over and when he misses shots. But for ten minutes tonight, he played well. And because of his two mistakes it became this hyperbolic reaction where it seems as if - and this started last season - one mistake and AJ sucked. A few missed shots, AJ sucks. How is that reasonable? I think the way people reacted to him in the playoffs is the perfect example of this.

AJ's a young guy, and he hasn't had the easiest time in Indiana, if there's a kid on this team that deserves slack, it's Price. Why people expect him to be flawless, especially when it's clear that he's struggling with confidence and such at this time, is beyond me.

And regardless, as a fan of his, I think he just needs to be in a different situation. Mentally, he's just not the same player. And it's clear he's not part of the Pacer's future plans, and IMO, as much as he tries to act like a team guy..he knows it. It would just be better for him to be somewhere else. Even though it's a shame because the Pacers are in a good place now.

Heisenberg
02-08-2012, 02:40 AM
I really do like AJ, but if he needs to feel like he's wanted or part of a team's future or however you wanna put it, he honestly needs a reality check. He'll most likely have to do his time in the D-League to get on an NBA roster after this year, he's nowhere near the caliber of player that should be worrying about securing a long term deal or something. Like I said, I like him, and it's a shame about that charity game knee tear because I liked him A LOT as a rookie and it seems like everything's changed since, but he's just not very good.

Asher99
02-08-2012, 02:42 AM
explain Collison's 9.1apg average in 37 starts for NOH.

40:17 MPG played on a team who was top-10 attempts played a big part of it, or basically the same reason he had over 4 TO a game during the same period.

vnzla81
02-08-2012, 02:43 AM
My god sometimes I question if you even watch basketball... Nash wasn't exactly the star he is now during those years. Same came be said for Rondo and Billups. Also, if you don't think style of offense has anything to do with assist numbers, then explain Collison's 9.1apg average in 37 starts for NOH.

Yep Nash wasn't the star he is now but he was his former college leader in assist for a reason, he knew how to pass the ball before he got to the NBA, the same with Rondo and even Billups average over 8apg while playing in one of the slowest offenses in the NBA.

Please tell me who has a better team right now DC or Nash? How in hell is Nash able to have his team filled with crappy players shooting a higher shooting percentage than us? How is he able to average 10apg with a bunch of scrubs?...... I think I have the answer, BECAUSE HE PUTS THE BALL AT THE RIGHT MOMENT AND AT THE RIGHT TIME FOR THOSE SCRUBS TO SCORE, there is not doubt in my mind that Nash in this team could average more than 10apg with all the weapons around him, he could make West look like the old West, he could give Danny the ball at the right time to shoot it, Nash could average whatever Nash averages in any system.

Note: Yes I do watch a lot of basketball and unlike you I think Danny is pretty damn good player even if some people here think that I hate the guy.

Hicks
02-08-2012, 02:44 AM
Yeah should probably just shut the balcony down at this point, it's pretty embarrasing.

There were plenty of people in the balcony tonight.

Heisenberg
02-08-2012, 02:46 AM
This DC v. Nash debate is completely stupid. I love and hate DC, but you're comparing him to a two time MVP with some of the best offensive instincts in history. It's apples and bricks.

Sookie
02-08-2012, 02:47 AM
I really do like AJ, but if he need to feel like he's wanted or part of a team's future or however you wanna put it, he honestly needs a reality check. He'll most likely have to do his time in the D-League to get on an NBA roster after this year, he's nowhere near the caliber of player that should be worrying about securing a long term deal or something.

That's not what I meant. AJ has been extremely professional for the Pacers, from what I can tell.

My point was, the Pacers made it clear that he was so much not in their plans, he wasn't going to get playing time so long as everyone is healthy, regardless of how well he played. That's their choice, whatever. But as a fan, I'll be glad when he's on a different team.

I truly hope that what we're seeing now is a bit of rust and lack of confidence from not playing, rather than permanent damage from the knee. It really hasn't been that long (in terms of recovery) from it. But if it is permanent, that's just a shame for him.

Asher99
02-08-2012, 02:51 AM
Tyler Hansbrough played straight awful for weeks, and it was rarely talked about.

I guess we didn't read the same threads.

Heisenberg
02-08-2012, 02:54 AM
That's not what I meant. AJ has been extremely professional for the Pacers, from what I can tell.

My point was, the Pacers made it clear that he was so much not in their plans, he wasn't going to get playing time so long as everyone is healthy, regardless of how well he played. That's their choice, whatever. But as a fan, I'll be glad when he's on a different team.

I truly hope that what we're seeing now is a bit of rust and lack of confidence from not playing, rather than permanent damage from the knee. It really hasn't been that long (in terms of recovery) from it. But if it is permanent, that's just a shame for him.That's fine, and understandable, I know you're a UConn fan. But the guy was a 52nd pick and has made it 3 years in the league, two of them after another major knee injury, he's already a success.

croz24
02-08-2012, 03:02 AM
Yep Nash wasn't the star he is now but he was his former college leader in assist for a reason, he knew how to pass the ball before he got to the NBA, the same with Rondo and even Billups average over 8apg while playing in one of the slowest offenses in the NBA.

Please tell me who has a better team right now DC or Nash? How in hell is Nash able to have his team filled with crappy players shooting a higher shooting percentage than us? How is he able to average 10apg with a bunch of scrubs?...... I think I have the answer, BECAUSE HE PUTS THE BALL AT THE RIGHT MOMENT AND AT THE RIGHT TIME FOR THOSE SCRUBS TO SCORE, there is not doubt in my mind that Nash in this team could average more than 10apg with all the weapons around him, he could make West look like the old West, he could give Danny the ball at the right time to shoot it, Nash could average whatever Nash averages in any system.

Note: Yes I do watch a lot of basketball and unlike you I think Danny is pretty damn good player even if some people here think that I hate the guy.

Find me one quote where I've said Danny wasn't a good player. My stance was always that he should have been dealt when his trade value was at its peak because he was not the franchise player 95% of the board thought he'd become...

If you want to bring college into the equation, then while Nash did put up decent numbers for "Santa Clara", I could just as easily argue Collison helped lead UCLA to the Championship game and then led them to back to back Final Fours as the leader of those teams. Sometimes players lead in different manners...

And again, Rondo, Billups, Nash, Parker were not putting up big assist numbers in their earlier years. In Rondo's 3rd year with Pierce and Allen, yes he finally cracked 8apg, but not before then. And while Detroit and Boston were half court teams, understand they lived off of guys like Pierce, Allen, Rip running off screens ala Reggie back in the day. Those teams also rarely fed the post to a guy like Hibbert. KG and Rasheed were face up guys who like a Malone or NOH West made a killing off the pick and roll. NOBODY on the Pacers roster is currently capable of the Reggie style of play. Once West, Hans, and Granger start hitting the open shots Collison is hitting them with, you'll see his assist numbers move up closer to 6-7-possibly8 on the year.

Heisenberg
02-08-2012, 03:06 AM
You guys care way too much about numbers. There's only one that matters.

Clearly I'm talking about PER.

croz24
02-08-2012, 03:07 AM
This DC v. Nash debate is completely stupid. I love and hate DC, but you're comparing him to a two time MVP with some of the best offensive instincts in history. It's apples and bricks.

Was Nash a two time MVP early in his career? And that's the point. People are expecting all star production from a young pg who has arguably played just as well as if not better than several all-star pgs at the same point in their careers.

Heisenberg
02-08-2012, 03:10 AM
Isn't that hypocritcal? So only the numbers you choose to be important are worthwhile to the discussion.
What numbers have I talked about? I don't care about numbers, certainly not APG. W-L is it.

Nuntius
02-08-2012, 03:11 AM
How is he able to average 10apg with a bunch of scrubs?

Because Gortat is not a scrub at all. Having decent to good 3 point shooters help as well.

Would Nash average more assists than DC in Indy? Sure, he would. Would he average 10+ APG like he does with Phoenix? Not if we don't change our offensive system

What's our primary offensive tactic? Feed Roy in the post, have DC or DG cut to the rim, see if he can make the pass and if he can give it to them to score. If he doesn't, let big Roy finish the job with one of his amazing hooks.

We do this with West as well although we mainly run the pick and pop with him.

Could we run the pick and roll and pick and pop better with Nash? Sure, we would. But still I don't get the feeling that we would make them our primary offensive tactic.

I'd love to have Nash here though and have DC coming off the bench and rape our opposition's bench. But frankly it would be a luxury. DC is good enough to be a starter in this league.

That said, I do find this comparison quite out of place. Still, I had to leave a comment.

PS: So, after a good win against a Western Conference opponent the postgame thread is dominated by a discussion about DC and AJ. I'll just say it then. We're 5-1 against the Western Conference.

ilive4sports
02-08-2012, 03:15 AM
Did you not just say the only number that matters was PER? Yet at the same time saying others care way too much about numbers. W-L included, there's an argument or case to be made for/against any number you want to use.

I believe he was making a Hollinger joke

Heisenberg
02-08-2012, 03:17 AM
Did you not just say the only number that matters was PER? Yet at the same time saying others care way too much about numbers. W-L included, there's an argument or case to be made for/against any number you want to use.
I guess I gotta start using green text.

croz24
02-08-2012, 03:18 AM
I believe he was making a Hollinger joke

Then my mistake and I apologize.

immortality
02-08-2012, 03:18 AM
I have just come to the conclusion that although vnzla81 likes the team, he doesn't like any of the players.

vnzla81
02-08-2012, 03:24 AM
I have just come to the conclusion that although vnzla81 likes the team, he doesn't like any of the players.

Stop it with this BS, just because I'm arguing againts somebody that's comparing DC to Steve Nash doesn't mean that I don't like DC, I've repeat it many times that I like the guy as an scorer and as a player but not as a point guard, today's game pretty much showed what I'm talking about, he did great at scoring and pushing the tempo, that's his game.

Eleazar
02-08-2012, 03:39 AM
I guess we didn't read the same threads.

If Hansbrough got a proportional amount of hate for every mistake he made you would expect there to be a lynch mob out for him. It is just like Rush the past two seasons. As soon as he enters the game quite a few people in the game threads would immediately ***** and moan. As soon as he made one minor mistake that guys like Granger make all of the time, they would yell for him to be taken out. Yet they would ignore everything else he does. Just because he didn't consistently score 13+ ppg people thought he never contributed. People couldn't accept him for what he was. A spot up shooter who was by far the best and most flexible defender on the team. A major reason for peoples dislike for Rush has nothing to do with Rush, but how this team used him. They refused to play Rush to his strengths, and instead decided to ignore him on offense despite his excellent shooting. The same can be said about McRoberts, for a little while the team had it figured out, but for whatever dumb reason it decided that McRoberts needed to go to the bench even though Hibbert and the team played substantially better when Hibbert and McRoberts were on the floor together.

When Price has been on the floor with offensive weapons he has been arguably the best pure PG on the team, but once you take those weapons away he struggles because there is nothing for him to work with.

The common denominator here is all three players were complimentary players. As individuals they might not be better than Hill, Hansbrough, or Lance, but within the team concept they are necessary and can make your team so much better. When you ignore that to play Lance instead of teaming Price up with Hill and Hansbrough you don't get to see how good Price and the bench can be. Instead of having a group of players who work together to be better as a whole, you have a bunch of individuals semi-working together trying to find the best option for themselves.

These arguments we have had over guys like Price, McRoberts, and Rush have nothing to do with those individuals they just happen to be the names that fill those roles. The argument has always been about building a complete team that is better than any individual player. With a line-up of Collision, Dunleavy, Granger, McRoberts, and Hibbert we were better than whoever was our best player that night. Mean while with the line-up of Collision, George, Granger, West, and Hibbert we tend to only be as good as our best player that night. People like to say we are winning as a team, but that is not true. We are winning with the same philosophy as the Heat or Celtics, except our talent is spread out over more players. So we are less reliant on one of three players having a huge game, but instead one of five players having a huge game or coming up big in the clutch. It was last years starting line-up that won as a team, not this years.

NapTonius Monk
02-08-2012, 03:51 AM
Eric Smith <s>@ </s>Eric__Smith (http://twitter.com/#%21/Eric__Smith)
11,006 in Indiana for the 17-7 Pacers? That's pathetic.

Brian T. Smith (http://twitter.com/tribjazz): Only 11,006 for Jazz-Pacers. Indiana has a good, young team that appears to have good character. Fans know Ron Artest is long gone, right?

CJ Jones
02-08-2012, 03:56 AM
Not much else to add except that I'm glad Lance was pulled for hanging his head, and not getting back on defense after the missed free throw. It sucked because he was doing some good things, but he's gonna have to learn to stay focused at all times when he's on the court if he wants to make it in this league.They finally called some plays for him, hopefully they continue using him like they did tonight, instead of spotting him up in a corner.

It was good to see AJ knock down some open jumpers. I thought he played well tonight until the 2 turnovers. It was bad timing no doubt, but up until then he was solid IMO.

Asher99
02-08-2012, 04:03 AM
When Price has been on the floor with offensive weapons he has been arguably the best pure PG on the team, but once you take those weapons away he struggles because there is nothing for him to work with.

If he's as good as you guys make him out why hasn't anyone swooped in to steal this great untapped talent we're wasting?

His career per 36 shows him shooting more often than Tyler with a worse percentage and picking up about 2 less dimes than DC. So when he plays he's giving a worse rates than the forums two biggest complaints.

Heisenberg
02-08-2012, 04:56 AM
I'm more than disappointed with the attendance, I'm downright sad. I'm no business man (despite what my 4 figure bank statement says), but is it even feasible that they just say screw it, 2 hours before game time any unsold tix go for like, I dunno, a buck?

McKeyFan
02-08-2012, 08:21 AM
fwiw, lance is rapidly becoming my favorite player. he reminds me of tyler last year or baby al when he first became a pacer. trying so hard to do the right thing, but playing without a clue so much of the time. and those shining moments where the game slows down and he can do what he does. i really hope he gets it together. i felt so sorry for him when he came out after getting too excited and melting down.

man, i miss earl watson.

How can I thank a post when you put in that ridiculous, unrelated last line?

Edit: Oh, I think that's sarcasm, too. My bad.

HC
02-08-2012, 08:32 AM
There were plenty of people in the balcony tonight.

It looked scary on tv, literally like you could've filled all the other empties in with the people that were in the balcony. Im sure the majority of those were 6 dollar tickets. In any event, guess I better learn to use the green font.

McKeyFan
02-08-2012, 08:47 AM
just because I'm arguing againts somebody that's comparing DC to Steve Nash doesn't mean that I don't like DC, I've repeat it many times that I like the guy as an scorer and as a player but not as a point guard, today's game pretty much showed what I'm talking about, he did great at scoring and pushing the tempo, that's his game.

I'm with vnzla81 here.

Collison's great performance is fool's gold, like depending on the three point line is fool's gold.

He is a really good scorer, and it will work in the regular season and the first three quarters. But it won't work when it matters.

To get where we need to go, we need a pass first point guard.

That's the hard truth and noboby wants to hear it after DC has a break out game.

That said, I find him extremely enjoyable to watch. He is lightning fast, he has a graceful way of getting himself open for nice percentage shots, he handles the ball extremely well. But he is not the perfect fit for the 1 spot.

Another thing that is making Collison's current tenure extremely palatable for me is his attitude and work ethic. He is doing what the coaches want. He is feeding the big men. He is getting the ball moving on offense. He rarely takes bad shots.

So, getting a DWill may not happen this year or ever. DC may or may not grow into the next Chauncey Billups (I say no). But until we figure it out, kudos to DC for doing a great job of playing up to his potential.

Saras
02-08-2012, 09:58 AM
If you think dropping in Nash would automaticly transfer his stats from Suns then you have absolutely no clue how this goes. Thats how indiana plays at the moment, slower, but starting from defense, its ridicilous you want to take a player out who is doing good and add a PG that is total disaster in defense and never played here nor has idea how Pacer basketball is played. Some of you should apply for a job in clippers scouting office.

Johanvil
02-08-2012, 10:01 AM
I think any chance for consistent, improved attendance will only come when it's obvious we secure a high enough seed for home court or possibly until once we win a series.

Maybe it will happen sooner, but the weeknight crowds seem pretty weak. Post-Super Bowl hangover?

Was the attendance any better before the SB except for the odd sell out against the Bobcats?Not trying to be a smartarse here,just a genuine question.

Ownagedood
02-08-2012, 10:03 AM
Eric Smith <s>@ </s>Eric__Smith (http://twitter.com/#%21/Eric__Smith)
11,006 in Indiana for the 17-7 Pacers? That's pathetic.

Brian T. Smith (http://twitter.com/tribjazz): Only 11,006 for Jazz-Pacers. Indiana has a good, young team that appears to have good character. Fans know Ron Artest is long gone, right?

I never watch the local news.. But do they ever push the Pacers? I have a feeling they don't. That would help greatly. I know they talked about the Colts a lot the last few years, but they need to get the excitement going for the Pacers thru their viewers. How else are local people, not following basketball closly going to know the Pacers are a great team with good guys?

Major Cold
02-08-2012, 10:43 AM
I wish we could get Earl Watson as our backup.

Major Cold
02-08-2012, 10:49 AM
I remember when we use to complain how we loss a game. Now we complain how we win.

There are holes on this team, but not canyons.

There needs to be adjustments, but not makeovers.

Some players need consistency to their role, but not to put them in a Posey purgatory.


Last year, this team would have folded like a chair thrown by Bob Knight himself.

Way to pull out another win.

xIndyFan
02-08-2012, 11:01 AM
How can I thank a post when you put in that ridiculous, unrelated last line?

Edit: Oh, I think that's sarcasm, too. My bad.

no, not sarcasm. i just like earl watson. his toughness, smarts. one of those guys that just makes the team at the beginning of the year, but is starting by the end.

Scot Pollard
02-08-2012, 11:18 AM
People are thinking too much into attendance and our lack of attention.

Indianapolis just hosted one of the biggest events in America last Sunday.

All eyes were on that. With roads closed, decorations up, and all that hype, that had Indy's attention.

Even towards the end of the NFL regular season, radio shows began to praise the Pacers, more people called in and such.

I didn't think too highly of last night's crowd. It was a SB hangover. It's expected that attendance will shoot up very soon. Saturday is looking good.

IF Saturday night's crowd is anything smaller than 90% or so filled, I really hope someone publically comes out and says something. Whether it's Danny, Frank, Bird, Simon.

Someone needs to make a point because this is basketball world and the Pacers have had some terrific crowds in the past years of winning.

We're playing up to the way people wanted.

BLF will be packed very soon.... Take it easy!

Trader Joe
02-08-2012, 11:30 AM
Really need to take care of Atlanta tonight, they've lost 3 in a row and all of them at home. I don't want them to beat us, that would drop our conference record to 12-7.

Johanvil
02-08-2012, 11:41 AM
they've lost 3 in a row and all of them at home.

That makes it even more dangerous for us IMO.

TheDon
02-08-2012, 11:56 AM
Yeah, I hate how it seems like every team seems to get up for playing against us. We really can't catch a break really I won't breathe a sigh of relief until after our first back-to-back-to-back and hopefully we're still on a roll going into the All-Star break. How amazing would it be if we were the second or third best team in the league going into the all-star break.

Mackey_Rose
02-08-2012, 12:40 PM
Danny will be on the Jim Rome show today.

McKeyFan
02-08-2012, 01:01 PM
What time?

Mackey_Rose
02-08-2012, 01:11 PM
What time?

The show runs from 12-3. I don't know which segment he'll be on.

Justin Tyme
02-08-2012, 01:17 PM
I wish we could get Earl Watson as our backup.

NO THANKS!

Neither he, Jarrett Jack, nor Diener are coming back no matter how much some would like to see it. Hopefully, after this season I can put Price in the same category as Diener... what ever happened to him.

90'sNBARocked
02-08-2012, 01:21 PM
What bad shot did he take tonight? I personally don't think shooting when the shot clock is winding down is a bad shot, but if others disagree, so be it.

He's going to make mistakes. It happens. Are turnovers truly a problem for Price? I don't think so. Yea, he turned it over twice in a row tonight, but it's typically not a problem.

It's not that I don't think he's playing poorly, it's that I think people go way overboard with the criticism, whereas other players are seemingly above it.

Tyler Hansbrough played straight awful for weeks, and it was rarely talked about. David West was TERRIBLE tonight, never mentioned. Lance Stephenson can play terrible for game after game, and people will pick out the one good play he had and suggest he was awesome.
Paul George has a habit of getting himself in foul trouble early in games, when has that been noted...and only Seth has pointed out his apparent occasional ADD. George Hill really struggled from the field in the beginning of the season, there was a whole lot of patience with that. Why no patience with AJ?

DC and Danny seem to be the only other players that get this wrath. At least they're starters, and playing major minutes.

So, you know what, it is his fault when he turns the ball over and when he misses shots. But for ten minutes tonight, he played well. And because of his two mistakes it became this hyperbolic reaction where it seems as if - and this started last season - one mistake and AJ sucked. A few missed shots, AJ sucks. How is that reasonable? I think the way people reacted to him in the playoffs is the perfect example of this.

AJ's a young guy, and he hasn't had the easiest time in Indiana, if there's a kid on this team that deserves slack, it's Price. Why people expect him to be flawless, especially when it's clear that he's struggling with confidence and such at this time, is beyond me.

And regardless, as a fan of his, I think he just needs to be in a different situation. Mentally, he's just not the same player. And it's clear he's not part of the Pacer's future plans, and IMO, as much as he tries to act like a team guy..he knows it. It would just be better for him to be somewhere else. Even though it's a shame because the Pacers are in a good place now.

Just food for thought here. I actually thought AJ played well, all things considered. I also think DC is only effective when looking for his own shot and it is falling. He can do the pick and pop well, but he doesn tget everyone involved. In my opinion AJ does that the best on the team. I dont think he took bad shoots last night, but it is so difficult for him to be successful in this on and off again thing

The only thought I have , is that you made a comment on how "AJ gets blasted" on the board yet "Lance can have bad game after bad game and gets nothing"

Therein lies the issue. I feel everytime you defend AJ, its at the expense of taking a shot at Lance. I dont agree with your opinion on him, and felt like he played extreemly well last night. I think this is the problem sove have with you in your feelings towards AJ and Lance

Just my opinion and I like you stick up for the player you like, just dont think it should be at the expense of another player

again just a thought here, right or wrong

Nuntius
02-08-2012, 01:30 PM
Hopefully, after this season I can put Price in the same category as Diener... what ever happened to him.

Travis plays in the Italian Serie A for Dinamo Sassari. He averages 13.3 PPG, 5.1 APG and 3.3 RPG. His team is pretty much a middle of the pack team in Italy that is en route of going to the playoffs as one of the last seeds.

Johanvil
02-08-2012, 01:34 PM
Each team has only got one b2b2b in their schedule or more?

Mackey_Rose
02-08-2012, 01:34 PM
What time?

He said in the next hour, so sometime after 1 o'clock.

Justin Tyme
02-08-2012, 01:34 PM
What an attitude.


I pointed out what I saw in the game that I felt hurt the Pacers in the game. Maybe I should have said we won even though these things occurred in the game. There is no such thing as a perfect game in BB. There are always things that can be improved upon, and pointing them out doesn't mean one has a bad attitude.

Oh btw, I changed my mood to TINGLY last week, so I believe "my attitude" is just fine. ;)

Sookie
02-08-2012, 02:13 PM
Just food for thought here. I actually thought AJ played well, all things considered. I also think DC is only effective when looking for his own shot and it is falling. He can do the pick and pop well, but he doesn tget everyone involved. In my opinion AJ does that the best on the team. I dont think he took bad shoots last night, but it is so difficult for him to be successful in this on and off again thing

The only thought I have , is that you made a comment on how "AJ gets blasted" on the board yet "Lance can have bad game after bad game and gets nothing"

Therein lies the issue. I feel everytime you defend AJ, its at the expense of taking a shot at Lance. I dont agree with your opinion on him, and felt like he played extreemly well last night. I think this is the problem sove have with you in your feelings towards AJ and Lance

Just my opinion and I like you stick up for the player you like, just dont think it should be at the expense of another player

again just a thought here, right or wrong

I wasn't taking a shot at Lance. I was merely pointing out that a majority of Lance's games (and he's not the only one, this applies to Tyler and Lou and half the time West - Who I've said deserves plenty of slack- as well) have been pretty bad. And yet we don't see anyone posting about how they can't wait to get rid of them. (Okay, maybe Lou gets it a bit..)

I made the point in saying that everyone gets a pass, except DC, Danny, and AJ. And that was my problem. And sometimes, when mistakes happen, that aren't completely their fault (or aren't at all, it just appears that way) they still get blamed.

Like last night, when DC was getting "bashed" for not passing. When PG went to the bench with foul trouble, Lance isn't the type of player you pass to for a bucket (he needs to create it himself to score) and besides Hibbert, everyone else was that DC played with was missing. So he was extra aggressive with his scoring. He made a majority of his shots, and we get blown out if he decides to be "pass first."

Kid Minneapolis
02-08-2012, 02:34 PM
This game showed me that we still don't know how to close teams out, but that we are learning how to survive an opponent's late surge. The former is something they need to work on, the latter is a good sign. The latter should've never happened though, had they worked on the former. That's about it. Giving up a huge lead like that is frustrating, but at least they won. Utah had no business being in this game late.

Eleazar
02-08-2012, 02:41 PM
If he's as good as you guys make him out why hasn't anyone swooped in to steal this great untapped talent we're wasting?

His career per 36 shows him shooting more often than Tyler with a worse percentage and picking up about 2 less dimes than DC. So when he plays he's giving a worse rates than the forums two biggest complaints.

You didn't read what I said at all did you.

By the way, on a team of Collison, Hill, and Stephenson being the best pure PG isn't saying much. Being a game manager doesn't get you much interest in trades as anything more than filler if you aren't putting up nice stats. This isn't a league that appreciates complimentary players much. Foster is a rare exception.

CJ Jones
02-08-2012, 03:05 PM
You didn't read what I said at all did you.

By the way, on a team of Collison, Hill, and Stephenson being the best pure PG isn't saying much. Being a game manager doesn't get you much interest in trades as anything more than filler if you aren't putting up nice stats. This isn't a league that appreciates complimentary players much. Foster is a rare exception.

When I think of pure point guard skills, I'm thinking of passing ability and court awareness. According to our GM, Lance is the best at those.

When comes to PG mentality and being a floor general, I'd say AJ's the best.

When it comes to scoring, speed, and quickness, I'd go with Darren.

TinManJoshua
02-08-2012, 03:11 PM
Danny will be on the Jim Rome show today.

What happened with this? Did anybody listen? I can't cause I'm at work.

90'sNBARocked
02-08-2012, 03:52 PM
I wasn't taking a shot at Lance. I was merely pointing out that a majority of Lance's games (and he's not the only one, this applies to Tyler and Lou and half the time West - Who I've said deserves plenty of slack- as well) have been pretty bad. And yet we don't see anyone posting about how they can't wait to get rid of them. (Okay, maybe Lou gets it a bit..)

I made the point in saying that everyone gets a pass, except DC, Danny, and AJ. And that was my problem. And sometimes, when mistakes happen, that aren't completely their fault (or aren't at all, it just appears that way) they still get blamed.

Like last night, when DC was getting "bashed" for not passing. When PG went to the bench with foul trouble, Lance isn't the type of player you pass to for a bucket (he needs to create it himself to score) and besides Hibbert, everyone else was that DC played with was missing. So he was extra aggressive with his scoring. He made a majority of his shots, and we get blown out if he decides to be "pass first."

I clearly, clearly disagree with the bolded part EVERY PLAYER gets slammed from time to time here : Nature of the beast someone always has to be the scape goat.

The other bolded part not sure if I understand correctly. If your saying Lance is not the type to get a pass and launch a 20 footer, then I agree with you, thats not his suit right now. If your saying you dont pass to Lance to create a bucket, then I disagree, becuase after receiving the pass, he can still beat his man off the dribble

Sookie
02-08-2012, 04:04 PM
I clearly, clearly disagree with the bolded part EVERY PLAYER gets slammed from time to time here : Nature of the beast someone always has to be the scape goat.

The other bolded part not sure if I understand correctly. If your saying Lance is not the type to get a pass and launch a 20 footer, then I agree with you, thats not his suit right now. If your saying you dont pass to Lance to create a bucket, then I disagree, becuase after receiving the pass, he can still beat his man off the dribble

It's just the extent of it. As said, DC or AJ make one mistake, and the criticisms are non stop. Tyler's got to play awful for weeks before it's mentioned. (And I'm not bashing Tyler or anyone else, I'm just pointing out the differences)

I was saying he wasn't the type of player you create a shot for. He's not going to take a jumper, but rather try and score off the dribble. AKA, it's not going to show up in the stat sheet for whoever passed it to him.

vnzla81
02-08-2012, 04:19 PM
It's just the extent of it. As said, DC or AJ make one mistake, and the criticisms are non stop. Tyler's got to play awful for weeks before it's mentioned. (And I'm not bashing Tyler or anyone else, I'm just pointing out the differences)

I was saying he wasn't the type of player you create a shot for. He's not going to take a jumper, but rather try and score off the dribble. AKA, it's not going to show up in the stat sheet for whoever passed it to him.

I was bashing Tyler all this time for his suckiness and I am a Tyler Hansbrough fan, there was a whole thread with people bashing him, the DC argument is usually about his inability to pass the ball and floor vision if you consider that bashing I guess I don't know what to say.

Like I said before even I(a Tyler Hansbrough fan) have the cojones to call my favorite player(after PG ;)) out, why is so hard for you to do the same thing with AJ? you keep just making excuses after excuses and never acknowledge that the guy hasn't been playing good basketball.

Sookie
02-08-2012, 04:55 PM
I was bashing Tyler all this time for his suckiness and I am a Tyler Hansbrough fan, there was a whole thread with people bashing him, the DC argument is usually about his inability to pass the ball and floor vision if you consider that bashing I guess I don't know what to say.

Like I said before even I(a Tyler Hansbrough fan) have the cojones to call my favorite player(after PG ;)) out, why is so hard for you to do the same thing with AJ? you keep just making excuses after excuses and never acknowledge that the guy hasn't been playing good basketball.

I've repeatedly said he hasn't been playing good basketball.

But I also look for possible reasons why people are struggling, regardless of who said player is. As I just don't assume players suck for no reason if they've proven to me they are good players.

For example, when mentioning that Tyler isn't good at setting screens, I suggested that it's probably because he's an energetic and somewhat impatient player, and those types of players tend to leave screens early. That's not making an excuse for Tyler, or at least that's not my intention. That's supplying a reason for his behavior.

I just happen to see, and I have since last season, a big difference between the way our point guards are talked about and the way everyone else is, and barely recognized for their good play. (Seriously, was Price's fantastic defense during the stretch Lance was out even mentioned?) DC and AJ aren't making more mistakes than anyone else. AJ hasn't been good since Hill's injury. But there's a huge difference between saying someone is struggling and saying someone sucks or "can't do X" etc.

Justin Tyme
02-08-2012, 05:00 PM
[QUOTE=Kid Minneapolis;1369201]

This game showed me that we still don't know how to close teams out, but that we are learning how to survive an opponent's late surge. QUOTE]

I agree, and the Pacers wouldn't have won this game under the former coach either. I am so IMPRESSED with Vogel's positiveness with his players. It's such a stark difference from the past. It's just absolutely refreshing!!!!!!!!!!!!!