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ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 02:55 PM
Some of you people on this forum have always been anti-Ron Artest even if it might cost us a chance to win the title. Some of you hate his "psycho" & thug attitude which you think he has. I have heard Pacer fans on these forums say they would rather not win a championshiip than to win it with Ron. Do you know how insane that is? Do any of you realize what a great chance we have to win a championship this here than we have had before? I consider us the favorites, and I have never felt like that with a Pacer team. Without Ron...we truly have no chance. Come playoff time, we need his DEFENSE and shooting. Look how he shut down Boston and Miami last year.

sweabs
11-11-2004, 02:59 PM
Please tell me who said they would rather NOT win a championship if it included Ron.

Hicks
11-11-2004, 03:01 PM
This is the same thread with a different title and re-worded statement.

Kstat
11-11-2004, 03:01 PM
....I think EVERYONE in here would rather not win a title than have Ron....because with Ron, theyre only going as far as his next meltdown.....who wants to root for a team whose entire future lies in the hands of a total nutcase?

Hicks
11-11-2004, 03:07 PM
....I think EVERYONE in here would rather not win a title than have Ron....because with Ron, theyre only going as far as his next meltdown.....who wants to root for a team whose entire future lies in the hands of a total nutcase?

Exactly. I'd rather risk taking a step or two backwards in the short-term, to ultimately have a chance of making a leap forward.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:15 PM
....I think EVERYONE in here would rather not win a title than have Ron....because with Ron, theyre only going as far as his next meltdown.....who wants to root for a team whose entire future lies in the hands of a total nutcase?

You a non-Pacer fan speaking for Pacer fans? Ron is one of the most popular Pacers. His jerseys are outselling other Pacers. I'm sorry, but I would rather be celebrating a championship with Ron than sitting home in June without a title. A championship means too much.

Ragnar
11-11-2004, 03:17 PM
It is because we think Ron is the key to the title that we have been as patient even appologetic as we have been.

It is hard to say we could never win without Ron when every other team who has won a title has done it without Ron and the last one did it against Ron.

Anthem
11-11-2004, 03:19 PM
ArtestMVP -

Please stop posting. Read the forums. Think for a while. Take a cold shower. Then come back.

You're polarizing an issue that's already polar enough.

That's a nice way of saying there are people here that aren't ready to trade Ron for a bucket of chicken, and you're making us look bad.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 03:20 PM
What does jersey sales and popularity have to do with your point?

Either you're his new agent, a Pistons fan in disguise, or delusional.

:D

I'd rather cut my losses now, even if it meant no championship this season, so that *the team* can start its post-Ron-Artest healing and being learning to trust each other again.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:20 PM
We have been waiting years to bring a championship home. We Pacer fans have suffered so much and have come so close...I truly believe this current Pacer team are the favorites and can get over the hump...but if you take Ron who is one of the best players in the NBA, kiss that chance good bye. I am tired of not having a championship...and losing run will push us backwards and I am not patient enough to wait a couple more years....especially since this is Reggie's last year and I love Reggie Miller. He is the reason why I am a Pacer fan and I want to see him go out with a ring.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:24 PM
What does jersey sales and popularity have to do with your point?

Either you're his new agent, a Pistons fan in disguise, or delusional.

:D

I'd rather cut my losses now, even if it meant no championship this season, so that *the team* can start its post-Ron-Artest healing and being learning to trust each other again.


Once again, we Pacer fans have been patient enough for a championship. I am not ready to wait a few more years for a title. This is Reggie Miller's last season and being a huge Reggie Miller fan (the reason I love the Pacers is because of him), he deserves a ring before he retires. It is about his legacy and the legacy of the Pacers. You Ron Artest haters want to get rid of him so bad you do not realize how valuable he is...especially playoff time.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:28 PM
....I think EVERYONE in here would rather not win a title than have Ron....because with Ron, theyre only going as far as his next meltdown.....who wants to root for a team whose entire future lies in the hands of a total nutcase?

You a non-Pacer fan speaking for Pacer fans? Ron is one of the most popular Pacers. His jerseys are outselling other Pacers. I'm sorry, but I would rather be celebrating a championship with Ron than sitting home in June without a title. A championship means too much.


Really?


Remember game 6 of the ECF last season?

Who committed that flagrent foul?

BTW, IMO we could have beaten the Lakers (thats a discussion for another day)

but you know what prevented us from that?

The Pistons. and what happened at the end of game 6 (hint, 40 foot 3 point shot, flagrent foul, missed dunk (not all his fault)


(DISCLAIMER= I was/still am Artest biggest fan, but look at all that and tell me that he doesnt hurt our team. OR OUR TEAMS NBA TITLE CHANCES AT THAT


He had a meltdown last year, I will admit that.
I am not blind. You must admit though, a big reason we even got to the E.C. Finals was because of Ron. He lifted us against Boston and Miami single handely and shut down his opponents and dominated on the offensive end. Ron has matured from last year, and I am sure once it comes to the big games he will not have a meltdown. That is why Carlisle benched him for 2 games so he learns his lesson now...not when it is too late.

Kstat
11-11-2004, 03:37 PM
Ron has matured from last year

Um, I think its very clear that he HASN'T matured from last year.......


You must admit though, a big reason we even got to the E.C. Finals was because of Ron

...he's also a big reason why you got ELIMINATED.......:laugh:

As a Pistons fan, I really want the Pacers to keep Ron, because I can always count on him cracking at the right time.

But as someone who's been around here for close to THREE YEARS now, unobjectively, I think he needs to go. Will the Pacers win it without him this year? Probably not, but they have a much greater chance winning it all in the near future.

Much better than getting back to the playoffs and watching Ron implode again....

Its one thing watching your team get outplayed, but to watch your season end because your top guy implodes? I can't fathom how frustrating that would be.

Hicks
11-11-2004, 03:43 PM
I was hoping you'd find out, but Rasheed kept his lid on :soundoff: ;) :D

Kstat
11-11-2004, 03:46 PM
I was hoping you'd find out, but Rasheed kept his lid on :soundoff: ;) :D

Ironically enough, Rasheed HAD his own rap show on local Portland radio. However, he quit it when it started getting in the way of his basketball.....

He said he has no intention of resuming his music hobby in Detroit.

Also, Rasheed's teamates have always loved the guy. There has never been a case of him melting down mentally in the clutch....

Slick Pinkham
11-11-2004, 04:06 PM
A few years ago some teams probably thought that JR Rider would lead them to a title.

Every once in a while there are all-star talented players with 2 cent heads. Often those guys wind up out of the league, despite their talent, and the teams that lost them are better off for it.

fwpacerfan
11-11-2004, 04:06 PM
....I think EVERYONE in here would rather not win a title than have Ron....because with Ron, theyre only going as far as his next meltdown.....who wants to root for a team whose entire future lies in the hands of a total nutcase?

You a non-Pacer fan speaking for Pacer fans? Ron is one of the most popular Pacers. His jerseys are outselling other Pacers. I'm sorry, but I would rather be celebrating a championship with Ron than sitting home in June without a title. A championship means too much.


Really?


Remember game 6 of the ECF last season?

Who committed that flagrent foul?

BTW, IMO we could have beaten the Lakers (thats a discussion for another day)

but you know what prevented us from that?

The Pistons. and what happened at the end of game 6 (hint, 40 foot 3 point shot, flagrent foul, missed dunk (not all his fault)


(DISCLAIMER= I was/still am Artest biggest fan, but look at all that and tell me that he doesnt hurt our team. OR OUR TEAMS NBA TITLE CHANCES AT THAT


What people seem to forget is that w/o Artest's play, the Pacers would never have faced the Pistons. Ron avg. 21 ppg, 5 rbs. in the 1st 2 rounds. JO avg. 20.3 ppg and 7.6 rbs. It could be argued that Artest was every bit as valuable as JO during the playoffs last year.

That being said, now that I've seen the bench step up and play very well, I'm not as convinced as I was 3 months ago that the only way this team wins a championship is w/Artest. This team is extremly deep (the deepest in the league) and very talented. The entire team seems to have bought into Carlisle's system and it shows with the way they can plug different people in and they execute the gameplan.

With or w/o Artest, this team is a championship contender.

Unclebuck
11-11-2004, 04:11 PM
I don't agree at all with the statement that started this thread.

Everyone knows I am probably the biggest Artest supporter ever, but I can understand why so many are down on him, wondering if the Pacers can win with him

Unclebuck
11-11-2004, 04:18 PM
I don't agree at all with the statement that started this thread.

Everyone knows I am probably the biggest Artest supporter ever, but I can understand why so many are down on him, wondering if the Pacers can win with him

Suaveness
11-11-2004, 04:21 PM
I will continue to believe in Ron.

Merz
11-11-2004, 04:43 PM
I haven't red all the post in this thread, so I might be repaeting something (sorry if I do).

I was like you, ArtestMVP, just 3-4 days ago. I wanted to take the chance that he might have a breakdown because I thought he was to good and he was all about the team.

I got upset when Pacer fans would talk about his negative side because I thought he was mostly past it. I even made a thread were I got mad at Hicks (though I posted it just as a normal question) for having a Peja avatar, because i felt like he was betraying a vital player who was all about winning (I know it sounds kind of stupid).

Well this latest act is the worst thing Artest has done and it shows that he is not all about the team. Artest went form my favorite player just 4 days ago to now someone who I don't want to see in a Pacer uniform again. If he remains a Pacer for the season, I will still have hope. The only way he can redeem himself in my eyes is if he helps lead this team to a championship this season (not in spite of him) without any problems from now on. I now have joined the doubters. Hopefully if he stays here he doesn't force anyone else against him. You have to understand that we are not hating on Ron. He has made it hard on us Pacer fans to like him despite what he brings to the table.

Hicks
11-11-2004, 04:56 PM
You have to understand that we are not hating on Ron. He has made it hard on us Pacer fans to like him despite what he brings to the table.


*ding ding ding ding ding*

Exactly. We are not Ron haters, we are Ron doubters, and that doubt if formed from his actions.

Shade
11-11-2004, 04:57 PM
I am NOT willing to throw away a championship by jettisoning Ron for nothing. If Sheed can win a championship for Detroit, I can live with Ron getting us one too.

SoupIsGood
11-11-2004, 05:50 PM
Did I really just read that come playoff time we need Ron's shooting? Somebody pinch me, this can't be real.