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View Full Version : Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)



Peck
02-05-2012, 04:32 AM
We lost; I’m not going to spend a lot of time dwelling on it. I won’t even make excuses because at the end of the day it changes nothing, it doesn’t matter if we were tired it doesn’t matter that we were off. At the end of the day it will only show up as a loss in the W-L column so there is no point in even worrying about any of that.

Would it have been nice to have George Hill for this game? You know it, but injuries are part of the game. They were and have been missing Nelson and tonight Davis. So in a way they were missing more than we were.

Since I’m not going to fall onto the excuses and I am going to try and keep my disdain to a minimum for a team that shoots what I consider an inordinate amount of three point shots (I have to because tonight we only shot three less 3 point field goals than they did) and I won’t bore you with my diatribe about why Ryan Anderson is Troy Murphy and Tim Thomas illegitimate love child and that if he wasn’t clinging to Howards jersey he wouldn’t even be a spot player for the Washington Wizards.. I’ll just try and look at this from the perspective of “it’s was just one of those nights” and be grateful that this year that happens far less than it has in years past.

First some good news from Bankers Life Fieldhouse. It was officially a sell out. I mean they were still all but giving away tickets but it worked and the place was packed. So initially the atmosphere was quite good. As to stars in the crowd I think a lot of people had to be disappointed because unless they showed them on TV the only ones they showed over head at the fieldhouse was Floyd Mayweather & of all people Travis Best. We did learn that 50 cent was present but was not announced. So if people were looking for this when they came they left disappointed.

Now some other good news. We had the spark of life in Tyler Hansbrough tonight, more on him later but at least this was a good sign.

Also what would a Pacers game be without Danny Granger getting into an argument with an opponent? It wouldn’t be nearly as fun and yes once again after he got mad he hit a couple of shots (which if you saw tonight’s game you know that was a miracle) but could not sustain it for any time.

On top of all of this, as bad as we played, as horrid as we shot, we still had a chance at the end of the game to tie this up. I am not sure if the team just couldn’t get it done or frankly if they just didn’t want to go to over time because by this time both teams were pretty much playing the game with their hands on their hips.

So the takeaway from that is this. They didn’t give up, they didn’t get blown out and they still almost came away with this game.

Oh also I can’t help but to complain about this, Ryan Anders traveled on that last play on the inbounds. Michael Flatly doesn’t move his feet any more when dancing than Anderson did there but there was no call. I realize that the refs. generally are not going to make that call but he sure as heck traveled big time.
The Good:

Tyler Hansbrough: Please for the love of God, build on this. He took it right to the Magic all night long. Of course his jumper was falling so that helped but he also went inside a lot and drew fouls. He also was hitting the boards. We are desperately going to need this from him on Tuesday because Utah is just filled with big bodies and when he is such a strong asset from the bench we are generally a hard team to beat. It was great to see this Tyler back again & let us pray that this is the start of him getting back to being him.

Dahntay Jones: His defense tonight was just outstanding. I can’t think of a time this year where he has played better on the defensive end. You know how you can tell that Dahntay has grown as a player here? When he pinned that shot against the glass and kept the ball driving it the length of the courts each and every person on here and at the fieldhouse just knew he was going to take that to the rim. Well surprise he did drive to the rim but instead hit the cutting Collison for an uncontested layup. Between himself & Tyler they brought the team back into this game in the 3rd and beginning of the 4th quarter. Why they were replaced is beyond me.

Lou Amundson: He physically beat on Howard from the min he came in the game. He was involved in several key defensive stands and either had a block or a steal or a deflection when the game started to turn on almost every defensive play. Dwight did not push him around at all & in fact I would be interested in seeing how many points he scored when Lou was in.

So the theme from tonight was the exact opposite of last night, our bench did very well while our starters struggled.

The Bad:

Ok first and foremost I want to say that bad is a relative term here. I’m not making excuses per say but I absolutely believe that several of our key players were just fatigued and out of it. So when I list somebody here you may wonder why, I will try and explain on each one.

Danny Granger: Love the fighting spirit, love that he hit his free throws. But if I ever see him take 9 three point shots in a game again when he isn’t even hitting 4 of them I will scream. Look the guy is gassed; there was no doubt about it. Even those of you that hate him have to admit that Danny Granger is not going to air ball an open three point shot and shoot the ball 2 foot short of the rim. Now my complaint is that he should never have been settling for those shots but I can tell you he didn’t have his legs under him. But even I can’t deny that this game has to go down in the bad category even though somehow he managed to lead our team in scoring. Also I will credit him with hitting the boards.

Paul George: Just like Danny he did not have his legs. His shot was flat and I will say that this was because of no energy. However he get’s put here for the same reason Danny is here. He settled for the three point shot too early and too often. Over half of his shots from the field were from behind the arc and that is just too often when he wasn’t hitting. However he did a lot of other things on the floor including some fine defense and somehow lead our team in assists. But if there was any one real complaint tonight it would have been this. Stop fouling people in the act of shooting or if you must do that for the love of God don’t let them get the shot up. 3 of his 4 fouls resulted in an and 1 situation including the dreaded four point play from Reddick.

Roy Hibbert: Ok, here we might have a problem. No, not because he had a bad game but because when that ball went through his fingers at the end of the game Roy sulked and went and set on the bench with his head down and did not join the team huddle and did not talk with anyone on the bench. We’ve seen this happen to Roy before where something goes wrong and he goes into a funk. Roy hasn’t had a lot of luck lately on the offensive end, which I have never considered his fault it’s just the way teams are defending us. But I hope that between his lack of an offensive output and this mistake tonight he doesn’t go into a shell. Overall though Roy was like every other one of our starters in the fact that he was gassed and just had no energy to go after Howard tonight. Hey Dwight is the best center in the entire world right now so having him outplay you is no big thing. I just hope Roy holds his head up high and moves on.

David West: The best thing he could have done all night long was just punch Ryan Anders square in the jaw. It may not have done anything for the game and we would have lost him for a game or two but I sure would have felt better. We probably did a really poor job of getting him any form of shot tonight. I hate to keep beating this drum but like every player on this list he was just gassed and could not keep up. Again I’m not using that as an excuse; this schedule is going to kick every team in the *** this year so we can’t whine about it. But the reality of it is he played almost 40 min. last night and just had no lift and no speed (not that he ever has much of either normally but even less so tonight).

Darren Collison: How do you play almost 39 min. on the floor as a point guard and not get a single assist? I mean in all honesty some of it was that nobody was hitting, but Darren wasn’t getting anybody easy shots either. He did a decent job on defense but he was not spectacular either. I guess I still think this was a disappointing performance but like all of the other starters I think he was running on fumes.

Lance Stephenson: I mean this in all honestly Lance, and yes I do realize the irony of me saying this, you need to develop an outside shot. A three would be fine but something anything besides your driving layup. Diamond Dave stated this after the game and it is real. The problem with Lance on the floor and him not being the point guard with the ball is this. Players on our club can’t drive, draw defenders and then kick it out to Lance because he does nothing with it other than pass it off or attempt a drive. He played almost 11 min and did not even attempt a shot tonight, somewhere Brandon Rush is smiling at this. His defense was decent, which we should all be proud of. But he is doing nothing to make an argument that once Hill comes back he should retain any of this additional playing time.

A.J. Price: He has not got a problem getting up a shot. However he just has problem making them. I’m listing both he and Lance here because they combined to score the exact same amount that I did tonight in the game. Like Lance he had a decent turn on defense but both of these are somewhat negated by the fact that Orlando doesn’t really have any good ball handlers so defense is a little easier against them.

The Ugly:

http://static.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/stanvangundy.jpg

The Larry Storch of the NBA


No friends we aren’t going to make excuses but we aren’t going to hang our heads either. We went 4-1 over a pretty tough stretch of games and that is not shabby at all. We just need a couple of days off, regroup and come back to attack the Jazz.

The next week is no easier as we once again are going to be playing a group of teams that is vying for the playoffs. But on the other hand they have to play us as well and that is no longer an easy thing to do.

RWB
02-05-2012, 04:45 AM
Enjoy the Odd post as always my friend. You did leave out Coach V must of been dealing with fatigue as well. One of those times where the fresh legs of the bench was making a difference and should have got some additional playing time.

Peck
02-05-2012, 04:52 AM
Enjoy the Odd post as always my friend. You did leave out Coach V must of been dealing with fatigue as well. One of those times where the fresh legs of the bench was making a difference and should have got some additional playing time.

Yea believe me I complained about that all the way home. I understand that it was the normal time to bring back in the starters (he uses the egg timer like Rick did) but after just a few min. it was apperant that they were not going to get it done.

The quandry for him in that situation is do you obviously bench your starters when they are on national TV. I'm sure everyone of us would answer with a resounding yes, but he has to deal with them the rest of the year. I think he was just hoping they would pull through and shockingly they almost did.

But yes removing Tyler, Lou & Dahntay probably did cost us the game.

RWB
02-05-2012, 05:07 AM
Yeah I understand Coach is still learning like our players and still has to keep working on that bond. Pretty nice watching this entire program grow and maybe someday the Pacers will have their own Popovich. Frank is going in that direction.

spazzxb
02-05-2012, 05:24 AM
I got into the feildhouse shortly after the gates opened last night. When I got to my seat Lance and West were the only players on the floor. Lance was working on threes from the corner and took at least 10 of them.

I believe this is the first time I have seen lance make a three all season, however he did make more than half of them and made 3 in a a row at one point. Obviously this doesn't mean alot but it was refreshing to see he can shoot.

While you have a vaalid point when you say the vets don't trust him, I don't believe all of the blame should be put on Lance. Lance plays solid defense and appears to be working hard to be a team guy. I think his lack of offensive output has more to do with pleasing his coach and teamates than ability. Lance did not take one shot , so it seems kinda petty to harp on his scoring ability. Aj and DJ are selfish players which almost completly freezes lance out of the offense(also taking into account Amundsons limited contact with the ball and Tylers pass to shot ratio). When lance is on the floor with Collison we normally have DG,DW, and maybe even hibbert on the floor, so Lance is an afterthought. His job is to play good defense and not do anything stupid, he did a very good job with that tonight.

Vogal is doing what he feels is best for the team, which is good, however this lack of opportunity also means that you can't really blame Lance for not being more impressive.

+I was also impressed with Lou's defense on Howard tonight.

Peck
02-05-2012, 05:37 AM
I got into the feildhouse shortly after the gates opened last night. When I got to my seat Lance and West were the only players on the floor. Lance was working on threes from the corner and took at least 10 of them.

I believe this is the first time I have seen lance make a three all season, however he did make more than half of them and made 3 in a a row at one point. Obviously this doesn't mean alot but it was refreshing to see he can shoot.

While you have a vaalid point when you say the vets don't trust him, I don't believe all of the blame should be put on Lance. Lance plays solid defense and appears to be working hard to be a team guy. I think his lack of offensive output has more to do with pleasing his coach and teamates than ability. Lance did not take one shot , so it seems kinda petty to harp on his scoring ability. Aj and DJ are selfish players which almost completly freezes lance out of the offense(also taking into account Amundsons limited contact with the ball and Tylers pass to shot ratio). When lance is on the floor with Collison we normally have DG,DW, and maybe even hibbert on the floor, so Lance is an afterthought. His job is to play good defense and not do anything stupid, he did a very good job with that tonight.

Vogal is doing what he feels is best for the team, which is good, however this lack of opportunity also means that you can't really blame Lance for not being more impressive.

Where did I say that?

Lance to my knowledge, and I'm just going off of my head here, has put up 2 outside shots all year. Also how can you possibly say that D.J. is a selfish player after the last month? He has been the epitome of trying to adjust his game to fit the team. A.J. is still being deprogrammed IMO so this won't be pretty.

As to Lance being impressive? That is the least concern I have, however everybody who plays has to have some form of offensive weapon and Lance needs to have something just like everybody else. I'm not saying that as a criticism, I'm saying that as a way for him to get better. He's not going to continue to get much time if he doesn't even get up a shot in 12 min. on a routine basis.

spazzxb
02-05-2012, 06:11 AM
Where did I say that?


Players on our club can’t drive, draw defenders and then kick it out to Lance because he does nothing with it other than pass it off or attempt a drive. He played almost 11 min and did not even attempt a shot tonight, somewhere Brandon Rush is smiling at this. His defense was decent, which we should all be proud of. But he is doing nothing to make an argument that once Hill comes back he should retain any of this additional playing time.



First, aside from tonight Lance really hasn't gotten additional minutes. Those minutes went to AJ and DJ.

When you said they can't do something, I counter with they don't. Reguardless the bolded part is what I was expanding on.

Think about this, can you remember a time when DJ passed Lance the ball? PG and Lance are young, everyone else on this team are at least 3 years older than them. When I say vets I mean most of the team. When we had GH playing with Lance he actually shared the ball handling with him. GH also has the status to keep DJ on a leash(limit his urge to dominate the ball. I won't speculate as to why but I just feel both DJ and AJ freeze Lance out of the offense.

CJ Jones
02-05-2012, 06:33 AM
As to Lance being impressive? That is the least concern I have, however everybody who plays has to have some form of offensive weapon and Lance needs to have something just like everybody else. I'm not saying that as a criticism, I'm saying that as a way for him to get better. He's not going to continue to get much time if he doesn't even get up a shot in 12 min. on a routine basis.

Did Lance pass up shots tonight? He's playing the sg and getting no plays called for him so how do you expect him to score. He needs to develop a shot eventually, but that's never gonna be what he does best. He needs the ball in his hands to be most effective. Playing him off the ball is not a good use of his skill set IMO. I still can't figure out why some people think he should be strictly a sg when he's the best passer on the team.

McKeyFan
02-05-2012, 09:53 AM
I got into the feildhouse shortly after the gates opened last night. When I got to my seat Lance and West were the only players on the floor. Lance was working on threes from the corner and took at least 10 of them.

I believe this is the first time I have seen lance make a three all season, however he did make more than half of them and made 3 in a a row at one point. Obviously this doesn't mean alot but it was refreshing to see he can shoot.

While you have a vaalid point when you say the vets don't trust him, I don't believe all of the blame should be put on Lance. Lance plays solid defense and appears to be working hard to be a team guy. I think his lack of offensive output has more to do with pleasing his coach and teamates than ability. Lance did not take one shot , so it seems kinda petty to harp on his scoring ability. Aj and DJ are selfish players which almost completly freezes lance out of the offense(also taking into account Amundsons limited contact with the ball and Tylers pass to shot ratio). When lance is on the floor with Collison we normally have DG,DW, and maybe even hibbert on the floor, so Lance is an afterthought. His job is to play good defense and not do anything stupid, he did a very good job with that tonight.

Vogal is doing what he feels is best for the team, which is good, however this lack of opportunity also means that you can't really blame Lance for not being more impressive.

+I was also impressed with Lou's defense on Howard tonight.
Exactly. This is nothing like Brandon Rush, as Peck alluded to.

Does anybody doubt that Lance lacks the desire to make things happen on offense?

McKeyFan
02-05-2012, 09:55 AM
but I just feel both DJ and AJ freeze Lance out of the offense.

And Collison.

McKeyFan
02-05-2012, 09:56 AM
He's not going to continue to get much time if he doesn't even get up a shot in 12 min. on a routine basis.

I'm thinking the coaches may be telling him the exact opposite.

McKeyFan
02-05-2012, 10:02 AM
Peck, let me add something to The Good list:

Paul George and Roy Hibbert got experience being "the man" in crunch time. And they blew it.

Paul made a bad pass, since it got tipped. Roy didn't have the awareness to adjust to it and catch it. I think it's more on Paul than Roy, but still.

This is all good. We need them to get the kinks out during the regular season, not during the playoffs. A few more experiences like this and our up and coming youngsters will be more battle tested for crunch time drama in the playoffs, when it really counts.

spreedom
02-05-2012, 10:07 AM
I won’t bore you with my diatribe about why Ryan Anderson is Troy Murphy and Tim Thomas illegitimate love child and that if he wasn’t clinging to Howards jersey he wouldn’t even be a spot player for the Washington Wizards..


Pass the bong!

Nuntius
02-05-2012, 10:28 AM
But yes removing Tyler, Lou & Dahntay probably did cost us the game.

That sounds sooooo weird when you take into regard that a lot of people here dislike Lou, Dahntay and Tyler (well, Tyler to a lesser extent). However, it is very, very true. And not just for this game. As you have said numerous times Dahntay is doing great the last month and Lou is magnificent in the last few games.

By the way, regarding your question about how many points Howard scored on Lou.

Howard scored 3 points on Lou. One of those came from a free throw and the other came from that dunk after the inbound. Lou forced Howard to 2 turnovers (a charge and a traveling) and also blocked him once (Lou had 3 blocks).

CoolHand
02-05-2012, 10:56 AM
Peck,
Overall great article - I enjoyed it very much. However, I have one small correction for you, since I believe I've seen you make this mistake before, and I'm sure you want to improve the quality of your writing at every chance. So, here it is: the term is "per se", not "per say". i.e. see dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/per+se)

or, this site's (http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/perse.html) opinion:

This legal term (meaning “in, of, or by itself”) is a bit pretentious, but you gain little respect if you misspell “per se” as a single word. Worse is the mistaken “per say.”

vnzla81
02-05-2012, 12:30 PM
Great stat of the day, AJ Price is shooting an amazing .167% from the field and Tyler Hansbrough is shooting a better percentage than Danny for the year at .380% to Danny's .377% :lol:

Sparhawk
02-05-2012, 12:32 PM
Yeah, starters weren't getting it done, and I think most of us knew that the heavy minutes they played the previous day were going to hinder than. Glad the bench showed up tonight. Thought the bench should have played more. I also think Pends should have gotten into the game. If you have fresh legs, you have to use them!

I figured last night would be a loss, but we forced 24 TOs...that should have resulted in a win. Just couldn't get a damn shot to go in (shot 34%!).

At least the Pacers have a couple of days off.

Shade
02-05-2012, 12:38 PM
I'm not too concerned about last night. We were clearly gassed and it showed. We still fought to the end and had several chances to pull it out.

I hate losing to the Magic because they remind me of the terrible team we used to be. The big difference is that they have Howard (for now).

And like you, Peck, I can't stand Ryan "Murphy" Anderson. Was there any doubt he was going to hit those clutch free throws with all the slop he had going in last night?

Ace E.Anderson
02-05-2012, 12:38 PM
To be honest, both teams played horribly. It just so happens that the magic were hitting their 3's. I don't know whether to be discouraged because we lost to another good team (out of our losses this yr, most have come against good teams that we are battling with for playoff seeding--the magic twice, heat, celtics, and the 76ers) now the positive fan in me tells me that we just ended a 4 game winning streak, and we can't win them all. Maybe we should be encouraged that we fought so hard to get a win and actually had a chance to pull it off. I'm not sure, just a tough L--at home nonetheless.

If tonight wasn't the best example of the fact that we really could use another scoring option, I dont know what else LB needs to see. I'm not looking for wholesale changes by anymeans, but we definitely need to try and be active and see who we could pick up.

Shade
02-05-2012, 12:43 PM
We have another scoring option, he's just out injured at the moment.

Probably wouldn't hurt to rent one for the rest of the season, though. Who's available?

Sparhawk
02-05-2012, 12:57 PM
Great stat of the day, AJ Price is shooting an amazing .167% from the field and Tyler Hansbrough is shooting a better percentage than Danny for the year at .380% to Danny's .377% :lol:

AJ pisses me off for as much as he shoots the ball and doesn't hit ****. If only Lance was as aggressive at finding his own shot, but he probably realizes he's not a good shooter. At least one plays within themselves.

PaceBalls
02-05-2012, 01:41 PM
Lou has been great, I no longer doubt he belongs in the NBA. The fact he was holding his own against Dwight Howard was very impressive. Actually, he was getting the better of Dwight on the 4 or 5 times he had to guard him. Plus he was making shots and making good rebounds on the other end. What more can you ask for than that?

Our guys turned up the D to a fevered level in the middle of the 4th, but the energy went out after missing all those open looks. The airball 3 by Granger especially hurt the effort they were showing. That is disconcerting, but expected.

AJ is just playing awful. I'm all for sticking Lance out there as the back up PG.

imawhat
02-05-2012, 01:49 PM
There's a chance Hill will make it back before the all star game this month.

Sookie
02-05-2012, 02:43 PM
See, this is why I stick up for AJ.

He didn't play bad last night. He ran the offense (IE, made sure the ball got to Tyler in good spots) and played solid defense.

There's no need to make excuses for his shooting percentage, he's obviously been bad. But for whatever reason, no matter what he does, he tends to be the whipping boy.

Criticisms of "Jeez, I wish AJ would make a shot" are fine, but he's not Tyler. He does other things when he's not scoring. And the criticisms aren't even logical at this point.

He got blamed for not "running an offense" against Dallas. Really? I know he shot (and missed, which is everyone's real problem with him.) but that's not what I saw. We were going against a zone. Price made sure to get the ball inside of the zone pretty much every possession, whether it was getting the ball to Tyler or West, or driving in himself. He made quite a few nice plays. It wasn't going to look pretty. Until we play Hill and Price together, the bench won't look pretty.

Last night, he ran the bench offense well, in the sense that he made sure to get the ball to Tyler in spots he wanted. Which, I think was probably the right play. He did what everyone wanted, stopped looking for his shot almost completely, and people are still *****ing because he didn't score.

That's why I stick up for AJ, and why I do for DC, because there are certain players who don't ever get any slack for anything for whatever reason. And if there's any player on this roster that deserves some slack, it's AJ.

I'm an AJ fan, trust me, it sucks to watch this. But it sucks for different reasons. It sucks to watch a once borderline arrogant basketball player look completely unsure of himself. And it sucks to watch someone who was once a pretty good shooter, not be able to hit a shot. It sucks to watch a kid, who was once one of the best point guards I've seen at balancing between "when to score" and "when to shoot" struggle between knowing either, and end up going from one extreme to the other. All of this stuff sucks to watch, but it's all not completely his fault either. And he's consistently defending pretty well (although not nearly as well as he did against Charlotte.) He's also consistently making pretty good decisions. The offense is obviously not going to flow very well, but he's been getting the ball in the inside, and attempting to play inside out the entire time. Which I'd assume is what he's supposed to be doing.

He hasn't gotten to play much, and when he did, he got to play with a much different second unit. It's significantly easier to sit back and run an offense and play defense with Hill and Foster in the lineup, rather than Lance and Lou. Now he's got to figure out how to play with this group as well as all the above stuff he's struggling with. As I said, he deserves some slack. Price has been nothing but hardworking, tough minded, resilient, and professional here. From returning from a knee injury that kept Blake Griffin out for a year, in four months; to still even when baited by interviewers, not saying a negative thing about Jim O'brien..and keeping his mouth shut and cheering for this team every year he's been here, even when he deserved to get the backup point minutes-every year he's been here. You would have thought he'd earn a little bit of slack from the fanbase, not turn into the team whipping boy.

And on a side not, I completely disagree with Lance being on the "Bad" side too. Him (and AJ) were among the reasons the team made a run in the second quarter, and got the team back into the game. They're both struggling to score. Okay, sometimes people shoot badly, or simply can't shoot. But they contributed, and got the team back in the game regardless.

joeyd
02-05-2012, 03:33 PM
Despite the bad and the ugly of this game, the March 11 game at Orlando is shaping up to be HUGE. If we win that game, it could well be the difference between a 4 and a 5 seed, b/c I think we will end up with a better conference record than the Magic.

Peck
02-05-2012, 03:35 PM
Where did I say that?




First, aside from tonight Lance really hasn't gotten additional minutes. Those minutes went to AJ and DJ.

When you said they can't do something, I counter with they don't. Reguardless the bolded part is what I was expanding on.

Think about this, can you remember a time when DJ passed Lance the ball? PG and Lance are young, everyone else on this team are at least 3 years older than them. When I say vets I mean most of the team. When we had GH playing with Lance he actually shared the ball handling with him. GH also has the status to keep DJ on a leash(limit his urge to dominate the ball. I won't speculate as to why but I just feel both DJ and AJ freeze Lance out of the offense.

I hope you are not missing out on your life's calling of being a lawyer or politician. You were able to twist my words of observing an issue that I felt was present on court into a psychological issue of trust and selfishness. Very subtle and skilled on your part.

It is obvious that Frank does not run many plays for the guards, I think he expects them to get their shots in transition and off of the passing game. So whoever is playing the two spot is probably nightly not going to get deep into the offense without creating it for themselves.

However it still does not take away the fact that he doesn't confidently step into a shot when he gets the ball from either the mid range or perimeter.

I like Lance, he had a couple of shaky games but that is to be expected. Also I've said before that I think Lance best position is point guard because he has the handles and the passing to play there and because he doesn't have the ability to excell at playing off of the ball.

But that is just my opinion on the matter.

PGisthefuture
02-05-2012, 03:51 PM
We have another scoring option, he's just out injured at the moment.

Probably wouldn't hurt to rent one for the rest of the season, though. Who's available?

Well J.R. Smith should become available soon, I do believe the Chinese league he is playing for is having their playoffs right now. Whenever that's over he becomes available as a unrestricted free agent. I really hope we make a run at him.

Shade
02-05-2012, 04:21 PM
AJ is valuable when he plays pass-first. When he looks for his offense every time down, however, he becomes a detriment.

Asher99
02-05-2012, 06:20 PM
Tyler Hansbrough: Please for the love of God, build on this. He took it right to the Magic all night long.

Have rock, Will score! 14.33 PPG if he gets into double digits attempts, and when he scores he gets boards as he's getting 8.33 rebounds a game over those 6 games.

BringJackBack
02-05-2012, 06:46 PM
I am confident in George, Granger, West, and Hibbert moving forward. But Collison is not an adequate starter on this team because his role is too big for his output and style of play. He needs to distribute the damn ball and not hold it for 12 seconds in the shot clock and make us scramble in every half court set. He's a great guy to plug in for 24 minutes a game to add speed, quickness, and offensive ability... But we absolutely need a distributor who knows his role at the one if we want consistent offense. If Danny and Paul are too fatigued to get lift on their jumpers, then don't count on them to be the offense when we could play in the post or run pick and rolls.

And I love what Darren has done for us this year... He is a very good player who has won games for us. His game is just not his role, however... He needs more time but we can win now as in make a run for the title if we get the right point guard who can boost the offense.

It seemed like every time we needed something to happen to go on a run, Darren would do the opposite of what needed to be done. He isn't like this all of the time, but no team is going to win a lot of games with this much fatigue on top of non-logical decision making.

AJ is just bad as a backup point guard, he doesn't bring anything that a minimum salary point guard can't bring.

I feel like we are capable of making the second round as of right now and pushing a team like Chicago or Miami to 5-6 games, but in order to take the next step we need

1) Paul George and Roy Hibbert to continue to blossom, which will obviously happen.
2) A bench that is a good fit with each other. Hill, Tyler (Assuming he's just been in a little slump), and Dahntay are all good/great pieces for the bench and Lou is a great 5th big. But we need a backup point guard and a skilled back up center as an option to run the offense through. Maybe a shooter too, even though Hill can fill that role.
3) A point guard that can be consistent, similar to the way David West brings consistency. Keep Darren if you can, but if we want to be serious either Darren consistently becomes the 13 and 9 he puts up on occasion without disappearing or we look for someone who can.

Until these things are addressed one way or another we will be a very good team, but not a team that can out-execute Miami or Chicago in the finals. And we can absolutely do it with our cap space and pieces we already have if we play our cards right.

spazzxb
02-05-2012, 06:53 PM
I hope you are not missing out on your life's calling of being a lawyer or politician. You were able to twist my words of observing an issue that I felt was present on court into a psychological issue of trust and selfishness. Very subtle and skilled on your part.

It is obvious that Frank does not run many plays for the guards, I think he expects them to get their shots in transition and off of the passing game. So whoever is playing the two spot is probably nightly not going to get deep into the offense without creating it for themselves.

However it still does not take away the fact that he doesn't confidently step into a shot when he gets the ball from either the mid range or perimeter.

I like Lance, he had a couple of shaky games but that is to be expected. Also I've said before that I think Lance best position is point guard because he has the handles and the passing to play there and because he doesn't have the ability to excell at playing off of the ball.

But that is just my opinion on the matter.

I don't think its that big of a stretch to say they can kick the ball out to him, but choose not to. I don't believe Lance has had the opportunity to pass on open shots. Unless someone dribbles into trouble, Lance really never gets the ball since AJ took over.

The issue with DJ had been on my mind. DJ's shot has been falling and he does play great defense, so I haven't harped on it.

Remember when the rumors about lance's issues last year pointed to an aurgument between DJ and Lance? This season, even when lance was the point guard, DJ has refused to give him the ball in transition. In reguards to playing with our starting unit DJ has been better. I just think when he plays with Lance and even AJ, DJ tends to reverts to thinking he is the number one option.

I agree Lance is better at point guard. Even at the 2, however Lance was far more involved in the offense playing next to George Hill. I actually think George Hill and Lance play pretty well next to each other.

Finally, in my real life noone I spend time with cares about basketball. I am glad for your opinion.

Sookie
02-05-2012, 09:00 PM
I don't think its that big of a stretch to say they can kick the ball out to him, but choose not to. I don't believe Lance has had the opportunity to pass on open shots. Unless someone dribbles into trouble, Lance really never gets the ball since AJ took over.

The issue with DJ had been on my mind. DJ's shot has been falling and he does play great defense, so I haven't harped on it.

Remember when the rumors about lance's issues last year pointed to an aurgument between DJ and Lance? This season, even when lance was the point guard, DJ has refused to give him the ball in transition. In reguards to playing with our starting unit DJ has been better. I just think when he plays with Lance and even AJ, DJ tends to reverts to thinking he is the number one option.

I agree Lance is better at point guard. Even at the 2, however Lance was far more involved in the offense playing next to George Hill. I actually think George Hill and Lance play pretty well next to each other.

Finally, in my real life noone I spend time with cares about basketball. I am glad for your opinion.

DJ doesn't give the ball to anyone in transition. He's not icing Lance out.

I think AJ and Lance/DC and Lance just don't know how to play together yet, because they haven't had to.

CJ Jones
02-05-2012, 09:16 PM
See, this is why I stick up for AJ.


I like AJ and I don't think he's playing bad, but it's hurting the offense when he can't get his shot to fall and he's not creating much for anyone other than Tyler (he's the best at finding Ty). The AJ, Lance, Dahntay lineup isn't a good one. Neither wing can shoot it consistently, and AJ's struggling to make plays for himself out of the p&r. I'd rather see AJ off the ball if this is the 2nd unit we're gonna keep running out there. He'd be the better spot up shooter between him and Lance, and then Lance could put his skills to better use in the p&r.

Sookie
02-05-2012, 09:28 PM
I like AJ and I don't think he's playing bad, but it's hurting the offense when he can't get his shot to fall and he's not creating much for anyone other than Tyler (he's the best at finding Ty). The AJ, Lance, Dahntay lineup isn't a good one. Neither wing can shoot it consistently, and AJ's struggling to make plays for himself out of the p&r. I'd rather see AJ off the ball if this is the 2nd unit we're gonna keep running out there. He'd be the better spot up shooter between him and Lance, and then Lance could put his skills to better use in the p&r.

Okay, out of Lance, Dahntay, and Lou, who would you like him to create a shot for? When West and Roy are out there, or Danny, West or George are out there, Price finds them. (In fact, against Dallas, AJ and West looked really good together) And runs a pretty good looking offense. There's not a backup point guard in the league that could make this unit look good offensively. But, that doesn't mean it can't be effective. It was effective last night. It's just not going to ever be pretty. That doesn't mean AJ isn't making smart decisions. He's consistently looked to get the ball inside so that we can play inside and out?

Dahntay, bless him, isn't the best in a half court offense. And Lou and Lance don't score period.

Lance has been significantly better when played at SG. Whether he ends up there for his career or not, right now, it's better for the team if he's played there.

AJ needs to find his shot, just so he can consistently knock down open jumpers. (And I don't want him to be discouraged from going to the basket. He'll figure that out eventually.)

Eleazar
02-05-2012, 11:53 PM
AJ is valuable when he plays pass-first. When he looks for his offense every time down, however, he becomes a detriment.

That is easily fixable with good coaching.

vnzla81
02-05-2012, 11:59 PM
That is easily fixable with good coaching.

That's fixable with a better backup ;)

graphic-er
02-06-2012, 12:24 AM
Well after last nights game, I think Mark Cuban is correct when he has criticized the officiating this year. No travel call on Anderson in the final minute, but they will call a fully locked arm on Lou? That is the most uncommon call in the entire league I don't think I've seen that call in the past 5 years.

Not to mention the no call on Paul Pierce's travel last week in crunch time. Its getting ridiculous.

CJ Jones
02-06-2012, 01:50 AM
Okay, out of Lance, Dahntay, and Lou, who would you like him to create a shot for? When West and Roy are out there, or Danny, West or George are out there, Price finds them. (In fact, against Dallas, AJ and West looked really good together) And runs a pretty good looking offense. There's not a backup point guard in the league that could make this unit look good offensively. But, that doesn't mean it can't be effective. It was effective last night. It's just not going to ever be pretty. That doesn't mean AJ isn't making smart decisions. He's consistently looked to get the ball inside so that we can play inside and out?

Dahntay, bless him, isn't the best in a half court offense. And Lou and Lance don't score period.

Lance has been significantly better when played at SG. Whether he ends up there for his career or not, right now, it's better for the team if he's played there.

AJ needs to find his shot, just so he can consistently knock down open jumpers. (And I don't want him to be discouraged from going to the basket. He'll figure that out eventually.)

Yeah, I agree it's a bad mix of players. Any pg is gonna struggle making plays with this group, but that's why we need AJ to find his shot or get to the rim every now and then to keep the defense honest. The reason I suggested Lance at the pg with this group is his ability to get to the rim create because of his size and passing. I think he'd be more useful that way than standing in the corner, which is basically what he's doing now.

I realize why the switch was made, and it seems to be working. Lance has played much more under control since then. Taking the ball out of his hands makes him concentrate on other aspects of his game if he wants to stay on the floor. Eventually though, the plan is for him to be a pg, so he needs reps at pg. For adjusting and playing well, I think he should be given another chance with the ball in his hands on offense. This could also help the 2nd unit get some easier baskets IMO.

I hate to say it, but I'd like to see one of Paul or Danny playing sf at all times so we have at least one shooter on the floor. Then give Dahntay the backup sg minutes while Hill's out. Of course, that would leave an AJ/Lance dilemma at pg. I think either would work, and they'd both be better players, and we'd be a better team this way.