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ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 02:40 PM
Another user on here had made a post on Artest has different type of "injuries" unlike the typical NBA player. It is true, look how fast he recovered last year.

Artest may sometimes be a headcase and may not sometimes behave "accordingly" to standards. Asking for a month off from work may seem ridiculus to us, but think in the mind of Ron Artest.

Ron Artest has the potential to be an MVP in this league. He is just sooooo gooood and he is no where near his peak. This kid is NBA Defensive Player of the Year and can bring in 25 points a night with no problem. His outside shooting has improved dramatically, and his shots may look ugly and unconventional but they go in! Ron Artest is not replacable. Artest dominates on the defensive end, and the offensive end! I don't know of anyone in this league who can stop Ronnie. For all you on here that think Artest needs to go because he wanted to work on a "rap album" need to understand it was not just his rap album; in his mind he just needed a break from things because both his body and his mind could not take it. I hope some people on this forum who are so quick to jump out to trade Ron Artest by saying we have "S. Jackson"....don't you think S. Jackson and Ron Artest is an unbelievable duo? What about when Reggie retires? Come on people...grow up. Ron is our child, and we need to work with him. He is a part of our family and he has been having a little timeout.

Slick Pinkham
11-11-2004, 02:44 PM
you left out a word from the thread title.

Insert "not"

between "is" and "traded"

If Artest is NOT traded, kiss chances of a championship goodbye.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 02:48 PM
:welcome: (I think)

You appearantly don't realize, based on your screen name, that Ron isn't even the MVP of the Pacers.

JO + Rick + Tinsley/Jackson

Still a contender. Maybe not the favorite, but still a contender...

Anybody (including the Pacers) + Ron

Not a realistic contender, even if they win a bunch of regular season games.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 02:51 PM
you left out a word from the thread title.

Insert "not"

between "is" and "traded"

If Artest is NOT traded, kiss chances of a championship goodbye.


Really? Who is going to SHUT DOWN the opponents primary scorer? Artest is just not replacable. He is too valuable of a player and a possible MVP in this league. We judge people before knowing all the facts. Read this:

Chad Ford: This is the popular take and I think giving the right trade, the Pacers would trade Artest. Now here's the caveat. I'm told by Pacers president Donnie Walsh that Artest did NOT ask for time off to promote a music album. There were various reason including health and family issues for which he asked for the time off but the music album didn't come up. Artest did mention it in his press conference, but I believe that it was in response to a different question.

The guy was having family problems too...he is just not a coherent speaker and can't say things the right way like Reggie...he is a different type of person.

Mushmouth
11-11-2004, 02:55 PM
I'm 100% with you. If we trade Ron Artest for anyone, and I mean ANYONE, we are no longer a title contender. It shocks me that people who watch this team night-in and night-out really believe he is replaceable, or that we're better off without him.

I think this weekend, when everyone is watching the Pacers win, basically on the shoulders of Ron Artest, and 4 non-starters, you should take note and think about ANY other player that could pull that off. JO certainly could not last night (why is he playing anyway, need him to get healthy!!!).

Without Ron-Ron, we'll be a distant 4 or 5 seed in the East, no likely to reach the second round, much less the NBA Finals.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 02:55 PM
:welcome: (I think)

You appearantly don't realize, based on your screen name, that Ron isn't even the MVP of the Pacers.

JO + Rick + Tinsley/Jackson

Still a contender. Maybe not the favorite, but still a contender...

Anybody (including the Pacers) + Ron

Not a realistic contender, even if they win a bunch of regular season games.


Look, Ron has matured since last year. Too many people jump on the bash Ron Artest band wagon before they know all the facts.

Ron Artest is a team player this year. He has been playing very well and helping us win games. Why lose someone like Ron Artest who can help you win championships? Do you people realize how important defense is come playoff time? Do you understand how valuable of a player Ron Artest is? Rick Carlisle is benching Ron to teach him a lesson right now instead of it exploding later on during the year. Ron will not be traded because Donnie, Rick, and Larry Bird are not stupid enough to lose a potential MVP who helps dominate games. J.O & Artest=MVP of PACERS. Both players are amazing, and it is a debate about who is MVP. They are both valuable to the team and are not replacable.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 02:56 PM
Check the definintion of spin doctor, and you'll usually find a picture of Donnie Walsh.

You can't possibly take that quote seriously/ literally.

sweabs
11-11-2004, 02:56 PM
Yeah...according to DW...

And of course, he woulnd't want to make Artest sound better than what the truth holds for trade value...:laugh:

Artest even said himself, it was because of his album and being "worn-down".

Trust me...I'm a huge Artest supporter...and have been since he entered this league...but I'm a bigger Pacer supporter and I care how my team does.

And what Artest is doing, assuming we know everything is not good for the team.

Harddrive7
11-11-2004, 03:00 PM
you left out a word from the thread title.

Insert "not"

between "is" and "traded"

If Artest is NOT traded, kiss chances of a championship goodbye.


Really? Who is going to SHUT DOWN the opponents primary scorer? Artest is just not replacable. He is too valuable of a player and a possible MVP in this league. We judge people before knowing all the facts. Read this:

Chad Ford: This is the popular take and I think giving the right trade, the Pacers would trade Artest. Now here's the caveat. I'm told by Pacers president Donnie Walsh that Artest did NOT ask for time off to promote a music album. There were various reason including health and family issues for which he asked for the time off but the music album didn't come up. Artest did mention it in his press conference, but I believe that it was in response to a different question.

The guy was having family problems too...he is just not a coherent speaker and can't say things the right way like Reggie...he is a different type of person.



Yeah DW has NEVER put a spin on anything. Fact is that RON is the one that mentioned it.

"I've been doing a little bit too much music, just needed the rest,"

"I've still got my album coming out Nov. 23. After the album comes out I'm going to make sure all of my time is focused on winning a championship."

and if I remember correctly WE ALL have family problems from time to time, I'm not allowed to bring them to work with me why should he be?

I mean c'mon man.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:02 PM
I'm a MUCH BIGGER PACER supporter than a Ron Artest supporter. Artest is not even my favorite Pacer...it's Reggie Miller. The reason we need to keep Artest is because without Ronnie, PACERS have NO CHANCE of an NBA Title and Pacers management can not be dumb enough to lose such a valuable player. He is a guy who is on one of the best teams in the league and is scoring 25/game.

There is no question the album had a reason for him being worn down, but there are other reasons as well such as family problems which has been having since hahs been on the Pacers. Artest may not be coherent, articulate, or think like the average person...but that is no reason to trade a guy like Ron Artest who is absolutely amazing. It was good that this happened at the beginning of the year rather than later on when we had chemistry going...with all our injuries now, it was good this went out of the way. I am confident Ronnie will learn from this experience and will come back stronger than before.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:04 PM
One more thing! Artest's trade value has gone down since this episode...there is no one, and I mean no one close to the value of Ron Artest we can pick up...I would not trade Ron for Peja if we had the chance, which we will not.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 03:05 PM
:welcome: (I think)

You appearantly don't realize, based on your screen name, that Ron isn't even the MVP of the Pacers.

JO + Rick + Tinsley/Jackson

Still a contender. Maybe not the favorite, but still a contender...

Anybody (including the Pacers) + Ron

Not a realistic contender, even if they win a bunch of regular season games.


Look, Ron has matured since last year. Too many people jump on the bash Ron Artest band wagon before they know all the facts.

Ron Artest is a team player this year. He has been playing very well and helping us win games. Why lose someone like Ron Artest who can help you win championships? Do you people realize how important defense is come playoff time? Do you understand how valuable of a player Ron Artest is? Rick Carlisle is benching run to teach him a lesson right now instead of it exploding later on during the year. Ron will not be traded because Donnie, Rick, and Larry Bird are not stupid enough to lose a potential MVP who helps dominate games. J.O & Artest=MVP of PACERS. Both players are amazing, and it is a debate about who is MVP. They are both valuable to the team and are not replacable.


You're new around here but I'm getting tired of repeating myself. With Ron its twelve steps up and twelve steps back. We're always going to be having these conversations.

He was benched for 'conduct detrimental to winning' in December of last season, and still had an enormous meltdown in the ECFs. There's no correlation between early-season discipline and late season meltdowns.

He's as reliable as a broken clock. Twice a day he gets it right, and he looks really good when he does. But he's not worth the trouble the rest of the time.

Especially because everyone pretty much acknowledges that his next meltdown is a matter of when? and how big?, not if?

As for the Ron Artest Bash Wagon. When has waiting on "additional facts" ever made him look better? Every single time, the truth is usually even worse than initial reports and rumors.

Harddrive7
11-11-2004, 03:06 PM
I'm a MUCH BIGGER PACER supporter than a Ron Artest supporter. Artest is not even my favorite Pacer...it's Reggie Miller. The reason we need to keep Artest is because without Ronnie, PACERS have NO CHANCE of an NBA Title and Pacers management can not be dumb enough to lose such a valuable player. He is a guy who is on one of the best teams in the league and is scoring 25/game.

There is no question the album had a reason for him being worn down, but there are other reasons as well such as family problems which has been having since hahs been on the Pacers. Artest may not be coherent, articulate, or think like the average person...but that is no reason to trade a guy like Ron Artest who is absolutely amazing. It was good that this happened at the beginning of the year rather than later on when we had chemistry going...with all our injuries now, it was good this went out of the way. I am confident Ronnie will learn from this experience and will come back stronger than before.



But if Ron is a distraction to his team then what good does his 25 ppg do for the PACERS. Remember this is about a team not Ron.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:07 PM
you left out a word from the thread title.

Insert "not"

between "is" and "traded"

If Artest is NOT traded, kiss chances of a championship goodbye.


Really? Who is going to SHUT DOWN the opponents primary scorer? Artest is just not replacable. He is too valuable of a player and a possible MVP in this league. We judge people before knowing all the facts. Read this:

Chad Ford: This is the popular take and I think giving the right trade, the Pacers would trade Artest. Now here's the caveat. I'm told by Pacers president Donnie Walsh that Artest did NOT ask for time off to promote a music album. There were various reason including health and family issues for which he asked for the time off but the music album didn't come up. Artest did mention it in his press conference, but I believe that it was in response to a different question.

The guy was having family problems too...he is just not a coherent speaker and can't say things the right way like Reggie...he is a different type of person.



Yeah DW has NEVER put a spin on anything. Fact is that RON is the one that mentioned it.

"I've been doing a little bit too much music, just needed the rest,"

"I've still got my album coming out Nov. 23. After the album comes out I'm going to make sure all of my time is focused on winning a championship."

and if I remember correctly WE ALL have family problems from time to time, I'm not allowed to bring them to work with me why should he be?

I mean c'mon man.


You are not Ron Artest and you are probably not that valuable in your line of work like Ron Artest is for the PACERS and the NBA. Please stop making silly comparisions.

Harddrive7
11-11-2004, 03:09 PM
Alrighty, welcome to the board. bye bye.

And to add, how valuable was Ron to us in Minnesota? How valuable is he when he's sitting on the bench?

And exactly how do you know how valuable I am at my job?

You sure have a hell of a way of introducing yourself.
a little pissed

Mushmouth
11-11-2004, 03:25 PM
Broken clock? That's absurd. Do you honestly watch the Pacers?

If you banned a guy for talking sense, this place is not the place for me, later.

ab

Stryder
11-11-2004, 03:26 PM
He's a year older than I am. It's time Artest starts to act like an adult.

I say suspend his a$$ WITHOUT pay or trade him.

scar
11-11-2004, 03:31 PM
I'm a fan of Ron's. I love the way the guy plays, I love his game, and I love his winning attitude. I love his drive to win games. I love how opposing players fear him.

But I hate how selfish he can be. I hate how he will hold the ball until the shot clock runs down and then he'll jack up a three. And I hate how this season, winning isn't in his attitude. But this situation is so secretive, I don't know what's what.

If Artest WAS really being that selfish, then I think it wouldn't be to bad of an idea to shop his name around the league.

If he missed the games because of family, or mental/physical fatigue, then I think it's just cause to sit out a few games.

Artest has risen to the top 10 players in the NBA. And because of his relatively small contract, it would be hard to get equal value without additional players. I don't want to trade a bunch of players because then it messes up the team identity, the fluidity, and the chemistry for the Pacers. I'm not a fan of mid-season trades. I don't think we've reached the point where we need to trade Ron, although, with a good argument, I think my opinion could be swayed.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:31 PM
Alrighty, welcome to the board. bye bye.

And to add, how valuable was Ron to us in Minnesota? How valuable is he when he's sitting on the bench?

And exactly how do you know how valuable I am at my job?

You sure have a hell of a way of introducing yourself.


I was not bashing you. I was trying to make a point that you are not as valuable in your line of work as Ron Artest is for the Pacers and the NBA. Is that not true? He makes millions of dollars, is the Defensive Player of the Year and an All-star; and will be an MVP Candidate this year.

Ron was not valuable when he was on the bench, but Rick was trying to teach him a lesson now rather than later in the year. With Reggie and rest of the Pacers supporting Ron; Ron will be just fine. I know it is not all about Ron Artest, but I want Ron to stay on the Pacers because HE IS SO GOOD and will help us win the championship and without him we would not have a chance.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 03:36 PM
Broken clock? That's absurd. Do you honestly watch the Pacers?

:welcome:

Did you not read what I wrote, or just not understand it? Yeah, I've had season tickets for ten seasons and commute from Chicago to go to the games just so I can make knee-jerk reactions without watching, say, the fourth quarter of Game #6 of the 2004 ECFs. :unimpressed: Anyway, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I said,


-snip-
He's as reliable as a broken clock. Twice a day he gets it right, and he looks really good when he does. But he's not worth the trouble the rest of the time.

I'm talking about whether he's dependable or not. Clearly he's a helluva player, no one is disputing that.

At issue is whether he's such a great player that you can can excuse the fact that's he not dependable. Or more accurately, that he can be depended on to cause disruptions from time to time.

scar
11-11-2004, 03:37 PM
Alrighty, welcome to the board. bye bye.

And to add, how valuable was Ron to us in Minnesota? How valuable is he when he's sitting on the bench?

And exactly how do you know how valuable I am at my job?

You sure have a hell of a way of introducing yourself.


I was not bashing you. I was trying to make a point that you are not as valuable in your line of work as Ron Artest is for the Pacers and the NBA. Is that not true? He makes millions of dollars, is the Defensive Player of the Year and an All-star; and will be an MVP Candidate this year.

Ron was not valuable when he was on the bench, but Rick was trying to teach him a lesson now rather than later in the year. With Reggie and rest of the Pacers supporting Ron; Ron will be just fine. I know it is not all about Ron Artest, but I want Ron to stay on the Pacers because HE IS SO GOOD and will help us win the championship and without him we would not have a chance.

One thing I fear is that if we traded Ron, he would continue to improve and it would become one of those situations where we look stupid. Say Ron goes on to become MVP and lead the Kings to a championship. Then won't we look dumb?

Mushmouth
11-11-2004, 03:37 PM
Broken clock? That's absurd. Do you honestly watch the Pacers?

If you banned a guy for talking sense, this place is not the place for me, later.

ab

sorry, thought I read a "Bye-Bye" banning message. Must have misread something.
Someone got banned? Interesting, I don't remember it happening..........

Mushmouth
11-11-2004, 03:39 PM
Broken clock? That's absurd. Do you honestly watch the Pacers?

:welcome:

Did you not read what I wrote, or just not understand it? Yeah, I've had season tickets for ten seasons and commute from Chicago to go to the games just so I can make knee-jerk reactions without watching, say, the fourth quarter of Game #6 of the 2004 ECFs. :unimpressed: Anyway, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I said,


-snip-
He's as reliable as a broken clock. Twice a day he gets it right, and he looks really good when he does. But he's not worth the trouble the rest of the time.

I'm talking about whether he's dependable or not. Clearly he's a helluva player, no one is disputing that.

At issue is whether he's such a great player that you can can excuse the fact that's he not dependable. Or more accurately, that he can be depended on to cause disruptions from time to time.


And with that vast knowledge from commuting from Chicago, do you think, without Ron Artest, the Pacers are a title contender? Just curious.

ARTESTMVP
11-11-2004, 03:46 PM
Jay,

I understand he is an unusual character but he is worth it! We just have to nurture him a little bit; and he will lead us to the golden land.

Kstat
11-11-2004, 03:51 PM
Jay,

I understand he is an unusual character but he is worth it! We just have to nurture him a little bit; and he will lead us to the golden land.

Nuture? What are you, his mother?

THE MAN IS TWENTY-FOUR YEARS OLD! HE'S A GROWN MAN!

...and when Ron loses his cool AGAIN in the biggest game of the season, like he did last year, will you say that aagin?

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 04:10 PM
Broken clock? That's absurd. Do you honestly watch the Pacers?

:welcome:

Did you not read what I wrote, or just not understand it? Yeah, I've had season tickets for ten seasons and commute from Chicago to go to the games just so I can make knee-jerk reactions without watching, say, the fourth quarter of Game #6 of the 2004 ECFs. :unimpressed: Anyway, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I said,


-snip-
He's as reliable as a broken clock. Twice a day he gets it right, and he looks really good when he does. But he's not worth the trouble the rest of the time.

I'm talking about whether he's dependable or not. Clearly he's a helluva player, no one is disputing that.

At issue is whether he's such a great player that you can can excuse the fact that's he not dependable. Or more accurately, that he can be depended on to cause disruptions from time to time.


And with that vast knowledge from commuting from Chicago, do you think, without Ron Artest, the Pacers are a title contender? Just curious.



Yes. I've said that four times today. Including at the top of this thread.

We'd still have JO, Rick is still our coach. We may not be the favorites, but I'd take my chances with that team instead of worrying about when Ron is going to crap all over *the team* again.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 04:14 PM
Jay,

I understand he is an unusual character but he is worth it! We just have to nurture him a little bit; and he will lead us to the golden land.

Are you kidding me. He's and NBA player, and you think he needs nurturing?

There's no player in the league not named Shaq that can single-handledly make a team a contender. A well-behaving Ron is only the second-most important piece in the Pacers machine. Ron, on his regular behavior, is only going to lead us where he led us last season, a meltdown at the wrong time.

stipo
11-11-2004, 07:10 PM
I mentioned on another thread that some of you youngsters out there (I'm a ripe old age of 39) probably think you're finished products right now, well, you're not. And some of you older gentlemen might have forgotten how you were at 24, but I'd like to believe I have grown quite a bit since then. I'm not saying to wait til Ron is an old geezer like Reggie and I, but he will (and believe it or not IS) maturing (oh so slooowly). This guy is a GREAT player. It's not time to give up on him.

We've stuck with Bender this long after the constant PHYSICAL injuries, waaaaaiting, ...and waaaaiting for him to show his game on the court. Well, we don't have to wait for Ron. His game is already here in a BIG way, and will improve greatly in the coming years. If he pulls a MENTAL muscle now and then, well, he's still worth it as far as I see it.