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View Full Version : Odd thoughts from a blow out...



Peck
11-11-2004, 07:10 AM
This is just one of those games. The best thing to do for everybody is to just move on. There is nothing to learn nothing to improve on nothing to do differantly.

This is just the season catching up with us.

I will take this time to gripe about one thing but it's not just specific to this game I've had a problem with it all season but this one really highlighted it.

We shoot to many three point shots. The reason we are open to take those shots is because teams will make you shoot it till you make them pay. Sometimes you will sometimes you won't but for God's sake don't take the shot everytime it's open. Work the ball around.

When I saw O'Neal come down on his foot & limp I almost puked on the floor. God, how much more can we take. At some point in time will we really have to petition the league to allow us an injury exception?

Croshere should not have even played because he has a broken thumb & an abrasion on his leg. In normal circumstances I bet he would have been set by Rick for the game but these are not normal times. Does anybody wonder if Bender would have tried to play with the same injury's?

Speaking of the Genie, he now has the flu???? Viral infection, flu, bubonic plageu does it matter?

Look I'll cut him some slack on this. But this is it. He needs to be on the floor Friday night, barring a fever. At this point in time I don't care if his knee hurts & is swollen. He has to be with the team on the floor even if it's for five min. Right now I think the team needs him psycholocially. It would give a boost to everybody.

Does anybody disagree with me that he needs to play Friday no matter what?

Since I'm just moving on past this game we might as well discuss the 800lb elephant in the room.

Ron Artest.

We've now heard a couple of varying accounts of what happened.

Now, because I know you all want to hear it:whistle:, I will give you my opinion of what happened.

Ron was fairly happy with game 1. He got lots of touches & he was the focus of a good solid win.

Game 2 Ron is still ok, but J.O. comes back & Ron starts thinking more & more about shots.

Game 3 J.O. is back. Jackson has it going on on offense. Ron is NOT happy.

Ron goes to Carlisle early this week & says that since the team doesn't need him, he is going to take some time off.

Thus begins an argument to which Ron expresses his disapointment about not getting enough touches on offense.

Carlisle has had enough & benches him.

Remember this is just my opinion. There is also something going around abou Ron & J.O. getting into it. I don't know about that but I do know that after the playoffs ended last year J.O. complained about Ron to management.

Let me start by saying this up front.

Ron Artest is either the best or tied with the best small forward in the N.B.A.

I would go so far as to say that he is really the best because of the defense he plays.

Ron has the talent to be a top 10 player in the N.B.A.

Ron has won many games for us & will continue to win games for us.

He is a defensive stopper & there are very few players you could trade him for & get any form of return on him.

Now having said all of that let me say this.

Ron Artest should have been traded last year, not this year.

I don't care how good the guy is. His teammates deserve better. They deserve a player who is there everynight, somebody who is committed to their goals, somebody who does not distract from the team.

This is not a new position for me. The night he punched Andre Kiralinko in the back of the head two years ago I pretty much decided this wasn't the type of person we want on our team.

But I know he has his fans. As I said in my other odd thoughts, if he hasn't convinced you by now he is no good then he never will.

The biggest problem for us as a team is that he is untradeable.

Now the question is here. Would you tolerate Walsh dumping Artest for whoever just to get him off of the team?

At this point, I would.

I hate that the guys who have gone out there & sweat & fought night in & night out so far this season has to suffer this fool.

We know they tried to move him this summer but here is how bad it is with Ron. We started with hopes of TMac. That didn't work. We then went with hopes of Peja. That didn't work. Then we were so willing to move him we tried Mike Miller. West wouldn't bite.

Sadly, I think were stuck with him.

I wouldn't want to give him to the Heat or the Pistons but I would have no problem letting Zeke get him back.

Some people are going to say that we won't win a title without him. I'm going to tell you we won't win a title with him. He weighs to heavily on the team.

Ron Artest for Kurt Thomas straight up works salary wise.

Now before anybody blows a gasket. No I don't think talent wise that's a good trade. But right now that is what you might get.

Eddy Curry is available btw, just in case you care. Although no way in hell you get Chicago to take him back.

It's just a pipe dream for me. He's here to stay for the season.

But I have to agree with Kravitz on this. At this point in time the management is getting what it has cultivated. There is no getting through to Artest.

Ok, Bash away.

Vicious Tyrant
11-11-2004, 07:22 AM
I don't want to see Artest traded and I still believe this will blow over.

That said, I've always thought James Posey would be a nice fit with his excellent defense and wondeful passing ability. IIRC, Posey for Artest works salary-wise. Could a deal for Peja still be made?

I bet a nickel we'll all look back on this and laugh (well, maybe not laugh, but.....) in two months.

SoupIsGood
11-11-2004, 07:30 AM
We need this guy off our team. He will never get it, he's a grown man. If we have to waive him to get him off the team I'm for it.

RWB
11-11-2004, 07:39 AM
I have no problem with trading Artest even if the trade talent wise is less. I don't want Artest traded to someone in the East and I don't want the man waived. If that means benching him then so be it.

RWB
11-11-2004, 08:18 AM
P.S. Before we just toss Artest out remember these GMs do have egos and someone would be silly enough to think they could work a miracle with Ronnie. Shoot Rodman was traded from the Pistons to San A for Sean Elliott and then after two years the Spurs got wise and traded Rodman to the Bulls for Perdue and I believe a pick. Yeah I know Perdue sucked. :laugh:

Harddrive7
11-11-2004, 08:20 AM
How about for Harrington? Al would get his starting position back.

beast23
11-11-2004, 08:29 AM
I am an Artest fan, hence Beast23, but I will say that those among us who believe that this problem is minor, I think you are mistaken.

I believe that the current round of "self-absorption" that we are seeing is something that will be recurrent throughout his career. Or at least until he is properly medicated, if Sauce-Master is indeed correct about his problem. [I've seen bi-polar up close and personal, and the reality of that diagnosis wouldn't surprise me a bit.]

I suppose that if a player had to make a request of a team for "time-off", then I'm glad it's during the start of the season and not during a run toward the playoffs. But this is not just any season. We need players, and we'll take just about anyone that can run and chew gum at the same time. It's not a time for one of the best players in the league to be pursuing a secondary occupation.

And if Peck is right, and its a matter of "touches", then we've got an even worse problem on top of the current behavorial problem.

Heck, they have solutions of this sort for dogs don't they? A dog starts to stray toward a boundary and he gets a jolt. Let's put a collar on Artest and give Carlisle the button.

But essentially, that's what we have right now. Rick is presumably enabled to bench, temporarily suspend, or even make the call when "enough is enough" and totally refuse to let Artest be part of the team.

But at this point, it's the start of the season, and I would be tempted to try to work with Artest a little bit to see if we can establish a couple of months of "good behavior" to help raise his trade value at least a little.

Then, I'd consider trading him. At the very least, we would want an expiring contract back in return for him.

And that's pretty sad, isn't it? An expiring contract for one of the top 10 players in the league. And we'd be believing that we were getting a good deal.

Harddrive7
11-11-2004, 08:42 AM
I'm curious to how mad the organization is that Ron spilled the beans about why he was sitting? I mean this has got to be an embarrassment to the Pacers players and throughout the organization.

Doug in CO
11-11-2004, 08:45 AM
I have to tell you - I am pissed at Artest - but to give him up for nothing is asinine and irresponsible.

The guy I have had it with is Bender. I am telling you, I would cut his ***. An oldie but a goodie - if I ever need a heart transplant I want his, because it has never been used.

He has no commitment to thiss team - he has no idea whata it means to sacrifice - he is just immature an lost.

Now, back to Ronnie. Peck - you are accurate - he is the best small forward in the league. There is zero chance you will win a ring without him. If you have him - chanaces are better than not that he blows up... but there is still a chance thaat he will not. He was a good citizen last year - he can be again. Will he be? I doubt it - but we need to try.

Unclebuck
11-11-2004, 10:22 AM
Before I jump off the Artest bandwagon (I am no longer driving the wagon, but still firmly seated on the bandwagon) But beofre i jump off, I want to know exactly what is going on here.

I don't for one minute believe that Artest wants to take a month off to rest and to finish his Rap album. I don't believe that is the reason at all. No I don't believe what Artest said yesterday. Besides I never listen to Ronnie. But the national media sure is and they are crucifying the guy. Ron should not speak and what he said was truly dumb.

I tend to believe Peck's version of this for the most part.

Before I think trading Ron (or should I say dumping Ron) is a good idea, I want to know more of what is going on.

I do agree that we are taking too many threes, but teams are leaving us wide-open

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 10:28 AM
I said this somewhere else, but his explanation is so bizarre that I wonder if Ron is also partially blowing smoke.

Again, what we know is, Ron gave a bizarre post game interview to the Boston announcers which was primarily an ad for his new album.

The Bulls announcers reported Ron and Rick shouting at each during the game.

Then this incident, whatever exactly it was.

I worry that we're only at the tip of the iceberg for this story. (Reaching for another anti-acid).

sixthman
11-11-2004, 11:10 AM
What's Ron have left on his contract? Four years?

So the last thing you want to do is waive him and eat that salary for this year and four more. The Pacers already have salary problems without paying out seven mil and more a year for the next four years for absolutely nothing.

Waiving Ron is not an option.

A buyout might always be possible, but it seems a bad solution for both sides. If I were Ron's agent, I'd be most reluctant to look at that option right now, if the buyout involved deep discounts.

Like with Iraq, there are no easy solutions here.

Maybe a nice trade will come along, but I doubt it.

I think the most likely course is we will need to deal with Ron the best we can this year and then both sides can reevaluate this summer.

I agree with the theory this is a medical problem more than a behavorial dilemma.

DisplacedKnick
11-11-2004, 11:36 AM
Does anybody disagree with me that he needs to play Friday no matter what?


I disagree. I think the sooner the team gets over thinking that Bender will ever be a productive NBA player the better off they'll be.

I think they're probably already there but stick him on the IL and be done with it. If by some one in a million chance he can ever give you 5pts and 3 rebounds per game from the bench over a comjplete season count it a bonus but it looks like 2001-02 was the highlight of his career.

Shade
11-11-2004, 12:23 PM
I agree about last night's game. No need to panic. But it does worry me that our "healthy" line-up is basically:

C - Harrison
PF - Croshere
SF - Artest/JJ
SG - Jax/Freddie
PG - Tins/Gill

:shudder:

And we're 4-1?! I'll take it. :cool:

As for Ron, I'm not nearly as down on him as everyone else seems to be. I guess I just expect this out of him, and I don't see us winning a title without him. I say we go out, get the rings this year, then ship him off.

Bball
11-11-2004, 01:58 PM
God, how much more can we take. At some point in time will we really have to petition the league to allow us an injury exception?



How does that work.... We tell the league the injury situation has depleted us of X% percent of our team roster and they then allow us to pick up a player... such as a 7' slow white project center that we won't play anyway?

Note: I still think we should've kept Holcomb.

-Bball

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 02:11 PM
Uh oh, disappearing post...


We're required to dress eight players. So once we've got eight players injured and unable to play, we can make that petition for a temporary 16th (or 17th) player.