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ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 12:28 AM
First of all, is this the last straw?

Secondly, should the benching end after two games, or should it be extended?

If yes/no, what's your reasoning?

IMO, if he wanted to take a month off, make him practice and sit on the bench for a month, then make him SJackson's backup at SF until you can trade him.

Third, if he ever plays again for the Pacers, how will you react to him? Pretend nothing ever happened? Begin cheering for him again as soon as he starts to play better? Boo loudly?

How do you think the CFH crowd will react, if he ever plays again for the Pacers? He's more popular on the internet fan boards than he is inside the arena, for whatever reason...

If you've been an Artest apologist, has this incident, and his outragous comments finally convinced you he's a cancer? If not, what will it take?

Vicious Tyrant
11-11-2004, 12:42 AM
There's no way this is the last straw. There's no way you can convince me Larry and Rick did not get rid of Al knowing Ron continues to be a work in progress. The guy made strides last year, and I think by the end of the year he will have continued to make strides - but the guys a knucklehead. Things like this are going to happen. It got dealt with, now we get to see if everyone moves on or if this starts to fester. If things start to fester, then we start to worry.

It's like Rasheed up in Detroit. He's been great so far, but if he'd done a few bone-headed things up there they would have been ready to deal with it, b/c Rasheed's likely to bring some stupid stuff with him.

This current thing with Ron sucks, but it'll blow over. I see it as him continuing to test the waters with Rick and Larry - like a teenager. Just part of the process.

TheSauceMaster
11-11-2004, 12:45 AM
I don't like the Term "Cancer" It reminds me of some that Hack writer Bob Kravitz says :p

Tradeable , I hope your not serious to think any team would touch Ron after this incident , hell a Bag of Freshly Salted peanuts may be of more value at this time.

I think the 2 games is a good start , Rick said he would reevaluate the situation after the 2 games , in fact in the after game Rick was asked if Ron would play Friday and I think his comments were along the lines of "we will see , there is no promise that Ron will even play friday or saturday"

I think it's best to give Artest a quick return and try and let this blow past , prolonging the situation is something that will affect the team more . It's something we really don't need and I am very disappointed about the whole sitaution.

I think letting the situation fester and prolonging it could have more of a longterm effect on the team , yeah Ron screwed up but Rick Made his statement on how he feels , let's see what Ron does with the Golden Chance.

Arcadian
11-11-2004, 01:00 AM
I don't like the circus, but even if we benched him it would still be there.

I go hot and cold on Ron. Right now I am cold and would like him traded just so that we can go back to basketball. It's not just this time either.

In the morning, though, I will feel different. I'll start to think that he is a great and unique player who is worth putting up with his "moods".

Anthem
11-11-2004, 02:05 AM
I dunno. By my previously stated criteria (not making the same mistake twice) I can let it go. It's so stupid, though. It's not "wow-this-guy-needs-medication" stupid, it's "wow-this-guy-needs-to-grow-up" stupid. Ron is just like a friend of mine in college. Great guy, but he'd just say the stupidest stuff. He wasn't careful with his words, he just blurted out every stupid thing that crossed his mind. This situation sounds like something my friend would do.

We all know Ron wouldn't have taken a month off... he's obsessive about basketball. His comments today made me shake my head... "I needed a little time off. I was thinking a month, but two games is enough." Even if Carlisle had said "Sure, take lots of time to go produce your CD" I can't see Ron actually doing it. So the crime, to me, is not that he was actually going to quit on the team. It was not being focused on the team.

There was a situation with JO a couple years ago that this sounds like. We were in the middle of a couple bad (important) losses where JO stunk it up. It came out that he'd been flying to NY to shoot some TV spots. JO caught all kinds of hell from the board on that one about being immature (which he was). But he's grown past it.

Given, this is an order of magnitude worse. But I don't know. If Carlisle is comfortable, I'm certainly not going to call for Ronnie's head. If he says Ronnie needs to be shipped out, I'll go along with that to.

So my answer to your poll, Jay, is no.

Anthem
11-11-2004, 02:36 AM
Jay, did you not vote in your own poll? Right now 100% say "NO."

Hicks
11-11-2004, 07:23 AM
First of all, is this the last straw?

No, but it's getting close to that point.


Secondly, should the benching end after two games, or should it be extended?

If yes/no, what's your reasoning?

No, because you have to get him back in there to see if he'll get back to just helping the team win ball games. You won't know if you just lock his ankles to the bench. Gotta see what he'll do now.


Third, if he ever plays again for the Pacers, how will you react to him? Pretend nothing ever happened? Begin cheering for him again as soon as he starts to play better? Boo loudly?

I'll react based on his play on the floor, unless he pulls something else between now and then, in which case at best I'll NOT cheer, at worst, I'll boo.


How do you think the CFH crowd will react, if he ever plays again for the Pacers? He's more popular on the internet fan boards than he is inside the arena, for whatever reason...

A mix, but I'd expect more cheers than boos (ignorance is bliss)


If you've been an Artest apologist, has this incident, and his outragous comments finally convinced you he's a cancer? If not, what will it take?

I haven't been an Artest apologist for a long while, but I think this incident has "converted" a least a few people.

BillS
11-11-2004, 09:17 AM
Secondly, should the benching end after two games, or should it be extended?

I leave that totally up to Rick.


Third, if he ever plays again for the Pacers, how will you react to him? Pretend nothing ever happened? Begin cheering for him again as soon as he starts to play better? Boo loudly?

He's a Pacer - why would I boo him to start with? If he screws up on the court, maybe.


If you've been an Artest apologist, has this incident, and his outragous comments finally convinced you he's a cancer? If not, what will it take?


See above, it will depend on how he comes out after this incident.

ABADays
11-11-2004, 09:24 AM
It is for me but not for the franchise.

indygeezer
11-11-2004, 09:39 AM
I said NO because I still believe the end came last spring. I firmly believe he's on a ZERO tolerance program and this is one of the facets of it. I have been waiting for the trade and I still expect it to come. It's just a matter of waiting for the right deal, but the decision was made long ago. This is just another nail in the coffin.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 09:44 AM
I ran the poll/ questions to get a pulse of every one else... I'll admit that I complain too much about this one particular topic. ;)

But if anyone still isn't sure how I feel, I can tell you... :devil:

I'll say this, when JO was shooting those commercials, I was equally mad at JO for doing it and for Isiah/ the team for excusing him from practice. That's a bad message to send to the rest of the team.

JO has occasionally been immature/ said dumb things - but he's also the type of guy to say, "yeah, that was dumb of me to say that and I won't do it again."

Ron's complete denial "I was ready to take some time off, at least like a month off, but two games is enough." is as irritating as the primary offense.

Ron's quotes from his press conference yesterday were so bizarre that it makes me wonder if what really happened is even stranger.

RWB
11-11-2004, 10:20 AM
With reservations I said no. Only because I do believe Walsh and Bird have spoken to the players and at least let them know whats going on. They may not agree, but as long as they are in the loop I would think they're more willing to give it time to work out.

sweabs
11-11-2004, 10:29 AM
I can't give up on Artest. We all know what he can do...like Larry says, "he could be a Top-10 player in this league".

I am definitely not happy with Ronnie right now - because the whole incident is stupid. He needs to grow up...but I have confidence in Carlisle and Bird.

PaceBalls
11-11-2004, 10:32 AM
Out of all his flagrants, equipment bashing, rude gestures etc.. this is the only thing he has done that Really bothered me. ALL of those other incidents were because he cared so much about winning it got the best of him. This just seems like he doesn't care, and would be considered very cancerous... I think they shoulda suspended him for a month without pay. But man he is one of the top 10 players in the game when he isn't taking time off :p I hope they keep him. I think the management knows how good he is too and won't get too hasty. Let's hope that in a month he will be leading the team in 3 categories besides DNP's and all will be good.

grace
11-11-2004, 11:08 AM
First of all, is this the last straw?

I voted yes and was surprised to find that it wasn't a majority. I don't know, maybe he just pulled this at the wrong time of the month for me. Originally I thought this was just a flap over him leaving practice early to go be on BET. I don't have a problem with that since I know JO has gone off to do commericals.


Secondly, should the benching end after two games, or should it be extended?

I was ready to put him in at half time last night. He's had 2 days off. He should be plenty rested.


make him SJackson's backup at SF until you can trade him.

IMO nobody in their right mind would want him after this, but then again Dallas and LA both took Dennis Rodman when he was certifiable. (I knew it was a bad omen when Ron changed his number.:mad:)


Third, if he ever plays again for the Pacers, how will you react to him?

I'll probably pretend like it never happened. I might not wear my Ron Artest t-shirt for awhile though.


How do you think the CFH crowd will react, if he ever plays again for the Pacers?

I would assume no one will be able to tell the difference since everyone always says there is no cheering in the fieldhouse.:p


If you've been an Artest apologist, has this incident, and his outragous comments finally convinced you he's a cancer? If not, what will it take?

I suppose I qualify as an apologist. I know he has mental problems. He's not a cancer, he's just plain nuts. Now that I remember he's wearing Rodman's number I think we need to petition the league to have his number changed. I'm sure (;)) Ron will generate enough revenue from his album to be able to pay the fine I'm sure the league will have for him changing in the middle of the year.

Unclebuck
11-11-2004, 11:59 AM
We don't even know what this straw is.

Should his benching end after two games. I have no idea, I'll leave that up to Rick, since he knows what is going on and I don't

Harddrive7
11-11-2004, 12:07 PM
We don't even know what this straw is.

Should his benching end after two games. I have no idea, I'll leave that up to Rick, since he knows what is going on and I don't


Ahhhh C'mon UB, speculate like everyone else. It's more fun that way. :laugh:

3Ball
11-11-2004, 12:09 PM
I was born in Texas and have been a Cowboys fan since birth (I didn't discover basketball until I moved to Indiana). Anyway, a few years back the Cowboys were trying to upgrade their defensive line on the cheap. It was a lousy line, but all their money was going to Aikman and Emmitt. So they went out and brought in two talented castoffs from other teams, Dimitrius Underwood and Alonzo Spellman.

Both had the talent to be All-Stars but had been let go by their previous teams for bizarre behavior. Underwood's had included suicide attempts (he slashed his own throat and was found bleeding in a parking lot), and Spellman had been found rampaging through the streets of Chicago with a knife wearing only his underwear in winter. Having them both on the same defensive line, was, to put it mildly, a delicate situation.

At the end of the day, they both relapsed and were out of the league in two years. Spellman had a felony case of Air Rage. Can you imagine sitting next to a 350 lbs well-muscled lineman freaking out? And Underwood just couldn't get it back together, even with heavy drugs.

The moral here is that sometimes, talent just doesn't trump all adversity.

rabid
11-11-2004, 12:30 PM
Look folks, I know this is a very intriguing/entertaining topic for all of us, but the fact is that we still really don't know the whole story, and we have very little idea how it's really affecting the team or what the other players might be thinking. At the end of the day we're just fans posting on a message board.

To me, what this really comes down to is how much we trust Rick, Larry and Donnie. These guys have gotten us this far, and however tough or strange the situation might be, I'm confident that they'll make the decision that's best for the team.

It is quite possible that Ron has bcome a team "cancer." That much is clear. What is equally clear, however, is that other teams have won championships with players that were even more disruptive then Ron - Dennis Rodman's years with the Pistons and Bulls come to mind, as does Shaq and all of his egotistical crap during his championship years with the Lakers. Sometimes a player's performance on the floor really does outweigh their off-court behavior. Whether that continues to be the case with Ron remains to be seen. It all comes down to team chemistry and how the team and coaching staff is able to handle it.

So, I voted no - because, like UB, I don't know what straw this is.

One final comment: We are pretty spoiled as NBA basketball fans in terms of team controversies. Players in this league have tried to strangle coaches, have shot people, faced multiple drug arrests, etc. And of course you have the occasional Dennis Rodman types.

I think the reason that this kind of thing is so shocking to us is that we're not used to it. Other than Ron's behavior the past couple seasons, the most controversial thing that's happened to this team in years was the trade of Brad Miller. Yes, kids, we're spoiled.

I think we should all take a deep breath and wait and see what happens. This thing could go either way IMO.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 12:47 PM
Rodman was the consumate team player in Detroit, he didn't start going nuts until the custody struggle and Chuck Daly's departure.

When John Lucas couldn't control him, then his silliness took on a life of its own.

I never liked Rodman because he became a sideshow, but I believe he respected Jordan, Pippen, and Phil enough that he was not a cancer or a distraction to the team, even though he was doing some odd stuff just to get publicity.

So if you're going to use Rodman as an example, does Ron have enough respect for JO, Reggie and Rick to get his act together?

We're not necessarily spoiled by accident, either. DW has historically stayed away from so-called "troubled" players. Under his watch, when the Rifleman stuffed Conrad into a trash can over at NIFS when Bruno went into a closed lockerroom to apologize to Tank about writing a nasty article about him - that's the closest we've been to a controversy prior to Ron joining the Pacers and that's pretty tame. Oh I guess Jalen had the 'spitting' incident in the airport. But I've dealt with NWA in the Detroit airport before, too, and they made the clerk apologize to Jalen as well, so that was probably fully justified.

Vicious Tyrant
11-11-2004, 02:43 PM
I think its worth adding here that most of us have expressed a lot of enthusiasm for Larry and Rick being in charge of things (Donnie seems to elicit a more mixed response). Isn't it fair to say we think they knew what they were getting when they traded Al away and kept Ron, and that they will be able to handle this situation?

That's pretty much their job, right?

grace
11-11-2004, 07:21 PM
So if you're going to use Rodman as an example, does Ron have enough respect for JO, Reggie and Rick to get his act together?


Depends on if he't taking his medication.

grace
11-11-2004, 07:30 PM
I think its worth adding here that most of us have expressed a lot of enthusiasm for Larry and Rick being in charge of things (Donnie seems to elicit a more mixed response). Isn't it fair to say we think they knew what they were getting when they traded Al away and kept Ron, and that they will be able to handle this situation?

That's pretty much their job, right?

Well, I have no enthusiasm whatsoever for Larry or Rick, but that's another story. As for the way they've handled things right now I'm not too impressed. I'm still pretty honked off they just had Ron sit on the bench. If you're gonna suspend him, suspend him. Who gives a :censored: what the players union has to say about it.