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View Full Version : Has the play of Fred Jones made Artest expendable.



Unclebuck
11-10-2004, 10:17 PM
I was thinking about this question as I was watching the T-Wolves game Tuesday night. Fred has played so well. How good would the Pacers be with Fred as the starting shooting guard and Jackson as the starting small forward.

I don't have time to comment further, have been awake since 4:00 AM today

sweabs
11-10-2004, 10:21 PM
Wow - I was thinking the same thing earlier today. This whole Artest incident has not escaped my mind...but I was asking the same question.

Obviously, we can in fact beat good teams like the Wolves with Jones/Jackson at the 2 and 3 spots. Those 2 guys played well - and Jones is only going to get better. Neither of them are scrubs on defense either...

But knowing what Artest can do...it would just be hard to lose him. Because, obviously, neither Jones nor Jackson is as good as Artest.

I also think we'd be losing a lot of size by going with Jones and Jackson at the 2 and 3 respectively.

Ugh...Artest is ruining my week...:disappointed:

purdue101
11-10-2004, 10:35 PM
wow, i was talking about this exact same issue with a co-worker today. i think the answer is YES. freddie jones is a very good talent and needs to be on the floort 20 mins a game. that isn't going to happen behind reggie, jax, JB, and ronnie. i think if we could get a very good big man and a SG/SF defensive minded player, i would do it. artest is just a headache, i can't believe what i am reading that he asked for time off to work on a rap album. this guy just doesn't get it........i honestly think he has something wrong with him. trade him now for a quality big and some depth at the 2 & 3. my co-worker and i came up with the idea of sending him to denver along with pollard & harrison in return for nene, camby, and white.....maybe a pick or two.....just a thought though.

Suaveness
11-10-2004, 10:48 PM
No. As much as I like Fred, and you know I do, Artest is so important to this team. I really do not think we can win a title without Artest. He is just that good, and this incident is not something I see as a big deal. No one is upset over anything, everyone seems fine about it. I want Artest here. Period.

Roy Munson
11-10-2004, 11:10 PM
Freddy's good play has not made Artest expendable, but it HAS made the Artest situation less of a disaster. It still is a disaster, but because of Freddy's play it is LESS of a disaster.

Suaveness
11-10-2004, 11:16 PM
No. As much as I like Fred, and you know I do, Artest is so important to this team. I really do not think we can win a title without Artest. He is just that good, and this incident is not something I see as a big deal. No one is upset over anything, everyone seems fine about it. I want Artest here. Period.

What players have you talked to to reach that conclusion? (that no one is upset)
I'll bet you one Larry Bird about lost a lung when he heard his "warrier" wanted a month off. Five games into the season..................
If I'm a big time NBA player getting paid millions to play a game and one of my star teammates tries to bail for a month while the team is badly shorthanded????????????????????????????????
Can you say Ricky Williams?? :o
They'll try to downplay it to control the hit to his value.
But IF this is all the way it went down, he's outa here.
Sooner or later.
No longer part of the "big plan".
Sad :mad:



Did you talk to larry? Did he really lose a lung?

I did see that Jackson mentioned something that they are behind Ronnie all the way, and I will take his word for it. Once again, I don't think it's a big deal.

Cactus Jax
11-10-2004, 11:20 PM
NO!!!!!!!!

It's not really because of how good Ron is, it's because no matter how great defensively Freddie gets, he has one huge flaw, his height.

Like someone said on here before, a guy like Lebron can just shoot over the top of him all day, and athleticism is so easy to find in today's NBA.

Also, Fred's shooting is bound to go downward, he's not shooting 50% + from 3 point range.

There's just no way right now to trade Ron for anything more than a draft pick or so. I think it could possibly become a trade deadline type of deal.

ChicagoJ
11-10-2004, 11:45 PM
Btown beat me to it - Artest has made himself expendable.

Fred Jones' rapid improvement is a nice bonus.

There's no way we ever win a championship with a cancer like Artest here.

I would trade Ron for Al Harrington in a heartbeat. :o

TheSauceMaster
11-11-2004, 12:33 AM
You could also spin off and ask could Ron Artest help the Pacers beat the Clippers ;) I don't think 2 games is enough to gauge if we would be alright or not alright with out Artest.

It really just showed me we put alot of effort into the Minny game without Artest , maybe if Artest would have played we wouldn't have been so Blah :confused:

Like it or not it looks like JO has reinjured his foot , so is trading Artest a option now ? From what they said after the game JO is doubtful for Friday and Saturdays games.

GO!!!!!
11-11-2004, 01:54 AM
I'm not the Art-Man's biggest fan but I support as he helps win games but he had what since april off to make his RAP CD why in hells name would you ask for a month of to promote your cd just when we start THE FRIGGEN NEW SEASON !!! ! you MORON !!!

and when we are having our worst injury run in years

this is the season.... think for a moment will you please mr Art-man

Anthem
11-11-2004, 02:06 AM
Nope. Not in any way.

wintermute
11-11-2004, 05:24 AM
before we go about saying how artest is expendable, consider these 2 questions first:

1. are the pacers a championship contender without artest?

the goal is still to win the nba championship. while artest could lose us the championship, we may not even be able to get that far without him.

2. and if not, which could the pacers trade artest for who could help win a championship?

at this point, most gm's probably want nothing to do with artest, and those few that do would make lowball offers. on the other hand, there are any number of talented players with assorted baggage (disgruntled stars, injury prone/overpaid guys, etc) whose teams might decide they can deal with artest better. a long shot, but it's a possibility. the question of course is whether any of these recycled players could help us.

if the answer to both these questions is "no", which i'm afraid is the case, then i think the pacers (and by extension us fans) would have no choice but to continue to put up with artest.

Kid Minneapolis
11-11-2004, 08:37 AM
I'm kinda tired of Artest' *****. I put up with it for a few years now and he's done some good things... but now it's worn on me just 1 time too many. No one cares about rap albums anymore anyway, rap is sooo 90s.

He needs to get his priorities straight. He's not a good speaker, so his rapping prob ain't all that great, and he makes his millions playing basketball. Stop phukin around with rap albums and focus on what yer paid to do, dammit!

Doug in CO
11-11-2004, 08:46 AM
Yes, with Freddie instead of Artest we can lose by 34

Kid Minneapolis
11-11-2004, 08:52 AM
Or with Freddie instead of Artest we can win by 1 in Minnesota.

Doug in CO
11-11-2004, 08:56 AM
So we will be .500

Bob Hill - is that you?

Coach
11-11-2004, 09:09 AM
To the people who are defending Artest answer this question. Why have people been banned from posting on this site. Doug in CT, Suaveness (Not picking on you two just saw that the two of you are in support of Ron). If someone came to this site and constantly posted disrespectful things to or about you would you put them on ignore. What if they insulted your wife or children like someone did with Jay@Section (Can't remember who it was). My guess is eventually you would get tired of listening to their crap and put them on ignore list or maybe hoped that they got banned. The problem that the p's have is that they can't put Ron on ignore. They have to deal with it day in and day out. I will admit Ron is a talent and on his good days(and he has many of these) he is a great help to the team. But I am sure that his teammates are always worrying about when the next explosion might occur. I also would take what his teammates say about him to the media with a grain of salt. The team will not air their dirty laundry to the media. I am sure of that.

Ragnar
11-11-2004, 09:40 AM
I think we need to suspend him without pay untill Nov23rd like Kravits suggested and see how he responds. If he responds well then keep him for now.

We cant count that Bender will ever play EVER. Ron could put us over the top if (and that is a big if) he ever gets his head screwed on straight.

If not then package him with Bender for a less crazy player who will play.

Doug in CO
11-11-2004, 09:43 AM
Bender will never play

Call me selfish - I think as slim as the hopes are, figuring Ron out is the only way to a ring. I want a championship.

3Ball
11-11-2004, 09:53 AM
I don't know, trading Artest and Bender now is a little like selling your Martha Stewert stock the day she was sentanced. You trade a guy when his stock is on the rise, not at the nadir. It's only worth it to trade a guy like that if you can get someone terrific (or young and really promising) in return. Why unload him now for stems and twigs? Who, in all seriousness, could we trade him for? Ron is going to make more of a contribution even if he sits out a quarter of the games then some has-been that we could trade for him now.

And that goes double for Bender.

DisplacedKnick
11-11-2004, 10:04 AM
I don't know, trading Artest and Bender now is a little like selling your Martha Stewert stock the day she was sentanced. You trade a guy when his stock is on the rise, not at the nadir. It's only worth it to trade a guy like that if you can get someone terrific (or young and really promising) in return. Why unload him now for stems and twigs? Who, in all seriousness, could we trade him for? Ron is going to make more of a contribution even if he sits out a quarter of the games then some has-been that we could trade for him now.

And that goes double for Bender.

It doesn't much matter when you trade Bender now - if you even can. You should have traded him in the summer of 2002 when he hadn't been revealed for the waste of a roster space he is to the rest of the league.

The Pacersa didn't and he's yours now - enjoy.

He'll be an ending salary in the 2006-07 season - you may be able to deal him then.

Shade
11-11-2004, 01:16 PM
No. We become way too thin in the backcourt again and lose a lot of our defense, which is already lacking with the injuries and such.

Maybe if we moved Ron for two good bench players, one in the frontcourt and one in the back. MAYBE.

Kegboy
11-11-2004, 03:46 PM
In a word, no.

As AZ said in quoting me, Fred's not a full-time starter, never going to be (at least, on a good team.) The best he can aspire to is Bobby Jackson, i.e. a top-flight 3rd guard.

Regardless of Freddie's ability, the premise is ludicrous, simply because no one player, at least none playing in the NBA today, can replace what Ron brings to the table.

That said, if we do cut ties with him, his loss can be mitigated from multiple sources. And yes, Freddie's improvement can play a part in that. But more importantly are Sax and Bender. If Jack can credibly defend the wing players that Fred can't, and JB can become a contributing member of this team, that would go a long way in making up for losing Ron. Even better if we get a good, solid front court player in return for Artest.

But before you all throw Ronnie out with the bathwater, you need to give serious thought to the fundamental changes that will happen to our team. Simply put, you can forget about us being a lock-down defensive team anymore Any shot of us competing defensively with Detroit goes right out the window. And we all know what defenses win...
---
Asked afterward if O'Neal's absence contributed to Charlotte's win, Knight bristled.

"What about Primoz? They didn't have Shaq, but we didn't have Primoz," he said.

ChicagoJ
11-11-2004, 06:14 PM
We weren't a lockdown defensive team with Artest under Isiah.

I think our ability to play great team defense has more to do with Rick (and Kevin O'Neill and Mike Brown) than Artest.

:twocents:

Kegboy
11-11-2004, 11:14 PM
We weren't a lockdown defensive team with Artest under Isiah.

I think our ability to play great team defense has more to do with Rick (and Kevin O'Neill and Mike Brown) than Artest.

:twocents:

We were a better defensive team than most people think. We were 4th in opponent FG%, but that was mostly negated by our lack of rebounding, partly due to horrible spacing, and partly due to Brad not boarding like Foster.
---
Asked afterward if O'Neal's absence contributed to Charlotte's win, Knight bristled.

"What about Primoz? They didn't have Shaq, but we didn't have Primoz," he said.

Anthem
11-12-2004, 12:42 AM
To the people who are defending Artest answer this question. Why have people been banned from posting on this site.

Who's been banned?